how often to upgrade phone?

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pb1996
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how often to upgrade phone?

Post by pb1996 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:45 pm

I have historically felt that it is financially prudent to not upgrade your iphone until it stops working. But this article implies (surprisingly) that there is minimal financial reason not to upgrade your phone every year or two:
"https://lifehacker.com/how-often-should ... 1729328617"

Am I missing something? Am I really holding onto my Iphone 6 indefinitely to only save $10-30 a year? I guess the only other hidden costs I can think of are the "activation fees" that carriers charge for each phone and new accessories (phone cases, etc) that you need to buy. Not to mention the environmental costs of churning through phones.

I would love it if you could help show me how holding on to a phone for as long as possible would lead to riches over the long term, but something tells me that just isn't the case.

SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:20 pm

I found this statement from the article quite dubious

(You could sell after four, but by then your phone will have degraded in performance and battery life quite a bit, so most people will probably upgrade before then.)

My last phone was running fine after 5 years, and the only reason I upgraded was because the new phone came with a year of free service, and the cost of the phone was less than the cost of one year of service. The old phone still runs fine, I use it as a remote.

I also question some of the reasoning used by the author to estimate the price of 1-2 year old phones. Worth noting too that if you're frugal enough to hold onto a phone for 3+ years, you might not get the most expensive whizbang phone, but a lower priced model.

Now, I don't think that holding onto a phone till it expires is going to make you rich, but I also question the notion that you aren't paying a premium to switch to the newest and latest each year. If you indeed like getting new phones and gadgets, then it might well be worth it to you, of course.

ENT Doc
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by ENT Doc » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm

Yeah, I don't buy it. Stay frugal. Still using my iPhone 3GS. Will probably get a used 6 or 6s in another year or so from Swappa or eBay.

runner3081
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by runner3081 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:54 pm

One thing to remember, this example may (though I am not buying their estimates) hold true for Apple phones, but not Android. If you have Android phones, the resale is significantly lower.

I used to be in the boat of upgrading every 1-2 years, but now, it is all about buying a mid-level $125 Android phone, keeping it for 3-4 years and then buying another. The old one might only sell for $20-$30, but my yearly cost is pretty insignificant.

darrvao777
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by darrvao777 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:00 pm

It's the behavior, not the actual savings.

By holding onto a phone until it's knocking on death's door, you are staying frugal and not indulging yourself with the latest and greatest. It's that repeated behavior across all items in your life that will lead to riches.

I upgrade annually because I like having the latest and greatest. Even then, I would say phones are so advanced now that in those year to year upgrades, we are talking incremental changes at this point.

AlohaJoe
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by AlohaJoe » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:04 pm

pb1996 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:45 pm
Am I missing something? Am I really holding onto my Iphone 6 indefinitely to only save $10-30 a year?
Another way to interpret their same data is:

The market (who is, generally, smarter than any of us individually) is telling you that having a brand new iPhone is only worth $10-30 a year. Is it really worth bothering with for such a tiny benefit? The market is saying that a brand new iPhone is less useful than a single dinner with your wife.

Mudpuppy
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Mudpuppy » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:14 pm

The primary assumptions of the article are that you will sell your old phone when you purchase a new one and that you will be able to sell your phone for the average national market value. If neither of those assumptions apply to your situation, your personal numbers will be vastly different than the article's numbers.

Also note that the article uses the $649 model as the upgraded model in its calculations. If you buy the pricier model or the cheaper model, your numbers will also be different. But you can download the article's spreadsheet and manipulate those values as you wish.

Ultimately, the article showed that upgrading every four years is the most cost effective. That's $200 less over six years than upgrading every year or two for the $649 model. But maybe saving that amount of money is not worth it for you and you'd rather have a new phone more frequently. That's a financial choice you'll have to make and it's fine to make it as long as you can afford it.

Personally, I upgrade every 2-4 years, depending on several factors including availability of security updates. I choose to run Android for several reasons, which usually means that security updates are provided for 2-3 years (depending on device manufacturer). But if you prefer the iPhone, Apple is pretty good about providing security updates for older devices. Arguably, iPhones have a longer support cycle than Android devices since Apple currently still provides updates for the 2013 iPhone 5s.

student
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by student » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:20 pm

I normally upgrade every two years when there were contracts to sign at AT&T. My phone is almost two years old but now I am at T-Mobile, so I plan to keep it longer.

knick17
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by knick17 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:49 pm

=Usually companies in the UK offer a 2yrs phone+plan package and they offer to renue the contract and upgrade the phone at the end of the contract. Usually it is a good option as it does not affect ur bill that much.

theplayer11
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by theplayer11 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:36 am

too many replace their iphone when battery drains too fast. This happens about 2-3 years in. A battery replacement is usually all that is needed.

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Cosmo
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Cosmo » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:18 am

SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:20 pm
I found this statement from the article quite dubious

(You could sell after four, but by then your phone will have degraded in performance and battery life quite a bit, so most people will probably upgrade before then.)

My last phone was running fine after 5 years, and the only reason I upgraded was because the new phone came with a year of free service, and the cost of the phone was less than the cost of one year of service. The old phone still runs fine, I use it as a remote.

I also question some of the reasoning used by the author to estimate the price of 1-2 year old phones. Worth noting too that if you're frugal enough to hold onto a phone for 3+ years, you might not get the most expensive whizbang phone, but a lower priced model.

Now, I don't think that holding onto a phone till it expires is going to make you rich, but I also question the notion that you aren't paying a premium to switch to the newest and latest each year. If you indeed like getting new phones and gadgets, then it might well be worth it to you, of course.
This is definitely true. After four years, it will have a much shorter battery life.

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Cosmo
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Cosmo » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:21 am

ENT Doc wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm
Yeah, I don't buy it. Stay frugal. Still using my iPhone 3GS. Will probably get a used 6 or 6s in another year or so from Swappa or eBay.
Is this even supported by Apple? If you are using it solely as a dumb phone, that would be fine. Otherwise, you would not want to use as there will likely be a lot of security flaws that Apple is no longer supporting not to mention many of the apps are no longer supported on iOS 6.

sixtyforty
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by sixtyforty » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:36 am

We've had our iPhone 5 for the past 5 years. Apple is not providing updates to that phone for iOS 11 and beyond. This may be the factor that pushes me to upgrade, maybe to a 6. From a financial perspective, I would think keeping the phone as long as you can saves you the most money.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

mpsz
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by mpsz » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:37 am

Mudpuppy wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:14 pm
Personally, I upgrade every 2-4 years, depending on several factors including availability of security updates. I choose to run Android for several reasons, which usually means that security updates are provided for 2-3 years (depending on device manufacturer). But if you prefer the iPhone, Apple is pretty good about providing security updates for older devices. Arguably, iPhones have a longer support cycle than Android devices since Apple currently still provides updates for the 2013 iPhone 5s.
Agreed. You should keep your phone as long as you can but once it stops receiving security updates, it's time to upgrade.

ENT Doc wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm
Yeah, I don't buy it. Stay frugal. Still using my iPhone 3GS. Will probably get a used 6 or 6s in another year or so from Swappa or eBay.
You should look into upgrading that phone yesterday. Seriously, the 3Gs cannot upgrade past iOS 6 and is vulnerable to thousands upon thousands of exploits. It's not safe to use this phone for anything more than making and receiving voice phone calls, and it should not be connected to any WiFi networks.

michaeljc70
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by michaeljc70 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:49 am

I update around every 2 years. I have found that almost every phone I've had after around 2 years the battery has really degraded. As others have pointed out, they tend not to get updates also.

ENT Doc
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by ENT Doc » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:53 am

mpsz wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:37 am
Mudpuppy wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:14 pm
Personally, I upgrade every 2-4 years, depending on several factors including availability of security updates. I choose to run Android for several reasons, which usually means that security updates are provided for 2-3 years (depending on device manufacturer). But if you prefer the iPhone, Apple is pretty good about providing security updates for older devices. Arguably, iPhones have a longer support cycle than Android devices since Apple currently still provides updates for the 2013 iPhone 5s.
Agreed. You should keep your phone as long as you can but once it stops receiving security updates, it's time to upgrade.

ENT Doc wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm
Yeah, I don't buy it. Stay frugal. Still using my iPhone 3GS. Will probably get a used 6 or 6s in another year or so from Swappa or eBay.
You should look into upgrading that phone yesterday. Seriously, the 3Gs cannot upgrade past iOS 6 and is vulnerable to thousands upon thousands of exploits. It's not safe to use this phone for anything more than making and receiving voice phone calls, and it should not be connected to any WiFi networks.
So not even on a password-protected home wifi? I only use it for phone calls, texting, and checking my email.

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Toons
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Toons » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:58 am

Financially prudent is one consideration.
Some like the latest technoloy,therefore,
They upgrade to the newest release.
Nothing wrong with that ,if one can "afford " it,
Pay cash :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:02 am

mpsz wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:37 am
Mudpuppy wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:14 pm
Personally, I upgrade every 2-4 years, depending on several factors including availability of security updates. I choose to run Android for several reasons, which usually means that security updates are provided for 2-3 years (depending on device manufacturer). But if you prefer the iPhone, Apple is pretty good about providing security updates for older devices. Arguably, iPhones have a longer support cycle than Android devices since Apple currently still provides updates for the 2013 iPhone 5s.
Agreed. You should keep your phone as long as you can but once it stops receiving security updates, it's time to upgrade.
For Android phones, you can often install an Android mod image yourself, even newer than the image provided by the manufacturer -- and you can get rid of the manufacturer's crappy apps. I did that with an old Samsung after 4 years and continue to upgrade it with new Mods

cutterinnj
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by cutterinnj » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:06 am

ENT Doc wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm
Yeah, I don't buy it. Stay frugal. Still using my iPhone 3GS. Will probably get a used 6 or 6s in another year or so from Swappa or eBay.
Do you use it for anything more than making phone calls? I don't think it could do more than that at this point.

There's frugal, then there's using obsolete technology; my phone is integral to my business and home life.
It is a supercomputer communications device.
I use Facetime daily to communicate, and there are multiple 64-bit apps I need.
My iPhone 6S is 2 years old, but has all the technology I need, so I won't upgrade anytime soon.

Using a 3GS (a phone from 2009) would be like trying to run my business on an Apple IIe.

While you certainly don't need the newest and greatest, buy the tech you need;

I think the sweet spot right now for many is the iPhone SE; there are plenty of new versions available for $100-$200 depending on which carrier you wish to use; it is essentially a 6S in the body of a 5S, and can do pretty much anything you'd need right now.

SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:15 am

ENT Doc wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:53 am
mpsz wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:37 am


Agreed. You should keep your phone as long as you can but once it stops receiving security updates, it's time to upgrade.

ENT Doc wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm
Yeah, I don't buy it. Stay frugal. Still using my iPhone 3GS. Will probably get a used 6 or 6s in another year or so from Swappa or eBay.
You should look into upgrading that phone yesterday. Seriously, the 3Gs cannot upgrade past iOS 6 and is vulnerable to thousands upon thousands of exploits. It's not safe to use this phone for anything more than making and receiving voice phone calls, and it should not be connected to any WiFi networks.
So not even on a password-protected home wifi? I only use it for phone calls, texting, and checking my email.
There are Wifi exploits that can (in theory) be used by someone within range of a phone if it has Wifi turned on to run remote commands on the Wifi chip. These are actually chip vulnerabilities. Now, these vulnerabilities are not that easy to exploit (and indeed, were revealed only recently), so it's not like it's a long standing problem.

If you're using WIfi within range of other Wifi networks, then you could be vulnerable -- in theory at least. But while I'm not a big advocate of updating phones every 2-3 years, even I think the 3GS is too old unless you're using it only for voice and SMS.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:16 am

Wife and I upgraded to Samsung Galaxy S5 phones when the S6 models were released. My old Samsung Galaxy S3 is used to play music.

Unfortunately both our S5 phones have cracked screens, as well wife's phone needs a new battery.

Next week we will have screens replaced and new batteries installed for $100-$110 dollars each. We should be able to keep the repaired phones another few years. We really like our current phones, and I can't imagine needing anything my current phone doesn't supply.

I will admit the both the Samsung Galaxy S8 and S8+ look phenomenal. But way too pricey for me. We could easily afford them, but just because we can afford something doesn't mean we should buy it. I offered to buy wife the Samsung Galaxy S8 when I saw a good deal, but she just wasn't interested, her cracked screen isn't all that bad, unlike mine.

So I suppose our answer to OP's question would be we upgrade every 2-3 releases, maybe longer this cycle.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

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wander
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by wander » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:19 am

I upgrade my phone when there is a need to do so. In the past, I upgraded to get LTE. Many areas have 3G, and many others have LTE. Since I pay the same price for both services, why do I want to get partial coverage. Same with the new 600MHz TMobile frequency, if I am a TMobile I would consider to upgrade my phone to be able to use that frequency. Another reason is software update. I am not worried too much about software fixes, but the apps start to stop working for old IOS so software is another reason.

ENT Doc
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by ENT Doc » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:21 am

SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:15 am
ENT Doc wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:53 am
mpsz wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:37 am


Agreed. You should keep your phone as long as you can but once it stops receiving security updates, it's time to upgrade.

ENT Doc wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm
Yeah, I don't buy it. Stay frugal. Still using my iPhone 3GS. Will probably get a used 6 or 6s in another year or so from Swappa or eBay.
You should look into upgrading that phone yesterday. Seriously, the 3Gs cannot upgrade past iOS 6 and is vulnerable to thousands upon thousands of exploits. It's not safe to use this phone for anything more than making and receiving voice phone calls, and it should not be connected to any WiFi networks.
So not even on a password-protected home wifi? I only use it for phone calls, texting, and checking my email.
There are Wifi exploits that can (in theory) be used by someone within range of a phone if it has Wifi turned on to run remote commands on the Wifi chip. These are actually chip vulnerabilities. Now, these vulnerabilities are not that easy to exploit (and indeed, were revealed only recently), so it's not like it's a long standing problem.

If you're using WIfi within range of other Wifi networks, then you could be vulnerable -- in theory at least. But while I'm not a big advocate of updating phones every 2-3 years, even I think the 3GS is too old unless you're using it only for voice and SMS.

Thank you. But if I'm checking my email via the mail app on the 3GS network and texting are these really vulnerable? I'm using a work phone (updated 6s) for all other purposes.

Traveler
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Traveler » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:26 am

Whenever the functional deterioration starts to be a hassle (i.e. the battery won't charge well, the plug doesn't work well, the battery only lasts an hour on a full charge, etc). Usually that seems to happen for me at about four years. Then I get a new phone that is not the latest, but about one cycle removed.

letsgobobby
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by letsgobobby » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:33 am

darrvao777 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:00 pm
It's the behavior, not the actual savings.

By holding onto a phone until it's knocking on death's door, you are staying frugal and not indulging yourself with the latest and greatest. It's that repeated behavior across all items in your life that will lead to riches.

I upgrade annually because I like having the latest and greatest. Even then, I would say phones are so advanced now that in those year to year upgrades, we are talking incremental changes at this point.
I'm using a Samsung S4. I don't know how old it is (3-4 years?) but about fifteen months ago I replaced it under warranty because it kept shutting off. Now the new refurbished one is doing something similar; it also has poor battery life; runs slowly most of the time; has a very weak wifi receiver to the point I never use it; and has no available memory for apps despite having a separate and mostly empty SD card I use for photos. I have very few apps, only the essentials plus the enormous bloatware that came with the phone.

So my (limited) experience has been that:
- battery degradation is a real issue;
- the plug connectors are weak links;
- the warranty was largely a waste of money;
- apps get bigger over time, demanding more memory;
- the internet demands more processing speed over time;
- I should invest in a better case/protection system;
- like buying cars, if I plan to keep a phone for longer than average, I should consider buying new/ good quality upfront to reduce early obsolescence and decay.

What do you think?

SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by SlowMovingInvestor » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:41 am

ENT Doc wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:21 am
SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:15 am
ENT Doc wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:53 am
mpsz wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:37 am


Agreed. You should keep your phone as long as you can but once it stops receiving security updates, it's time to upgrade.

ENT Doc wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm
Yeah, I don't buy it. Stay frugal. Still using my iPhone 3GS. Will probably get a used 6 or 6s in another year or so from Swappa or eBay.
You should look into upgrading that phone yesterday. Seriously, the 3Gs cannot upgrade past iOS 6 and is vulnerable to thousands upon thousands of exploits. It's not safe to use this phone for anything more than making and receiving voice phone calls, and it should not be connected to any WiFi networks.
So not even on a password-protected home wifi? I only use it for phone calls, texting, and checking my email.
There are Wifi exploits that can (in theory) be used by someone within range of a phone if it has Wifi turned on to run remote commands on the Wifi chip. These are actually chip vulnerabilities. Now, these vulnerabilities are not that easy to exploit (and indeed, were revealed only recently), so it's not like it's a long standing problem.

If you're using WIfi within range of other Wifi networks, then you could be vulnerable -- in theory at least. But while I'm not a big advocate of updating phones every 2-3 years, even I think the 3GS is too old unless you're using it only for voice and SMS.

Thank you. But if I'm checking my email via the mail app on the 3GS network and texting are these really vulnerable? I'm using a work phone (updated 6s) for all other purposes.
You mean you're using only the cellular network, and not Wifi (or only at home, and not in range of other Wifi Networks)? In that case, the Wifi vulnerability wouldn't impact you. There are other exploits, but they are not really exploitable remotely as far as I remember.

If you are using Wifi more broadly, then there is theoretical (but very low probability) possibility that your phone could be partly hijacked, and someone could use it to get your email creds, or even to intercept SMS or voice calls (say One Time Tokens sent via SMS). It's not something I would really be too concerned about, but it's not impossible.

mpsz
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by mpsz » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:05 am

SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:41 am
ENT Doc wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:21 am
Thank you. But if I'm checking my email via the mail app on the 3GS network and texting are these really vulnerable? I'm using a work phone (updated 6s) for all other purposes.
You mean you're using only the cellular network, and not Wifi (or only at home, and not in range of other Wifi Networks)? In that case, the Wifi vulnerability wouldn't impact you. There are other exploits, but they are not really exploitable remotely as far as I remember.

If you are using Wifi more broadly, then there is theoretical (but very low probability) possibility that your phone could be partly hijacked, and someone could use it to get your email creds, or even to intercept SMS or voice calls (say One Time Tokens sent via SMS). It's not something I would really be too concerned about, but it's not impossible.
Yes, you are "probably" fine if you are only using your cellular connection for texting and email. I still wouldn't recommend it though.

Glad to hear you are doing the rest of your activities on a more secure phone.

Angelus359
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Angelus359 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:46 am

I've upgraded my phone when my old phone stops getting security updates.
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stan1
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by stan1 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:56 am

Angelus359 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:46 am
I've upgraded my phone when my old phone stops getting security updates.
I'd agree with this. Upgrade a phone or computer when the vendor no longer supports security updates. This may mean the old hardware doesn't support a current operating system and other software. Anything else means you are accepting risks you may not understand. If you are a cyber/computer wonk and really want to go on your own great (but that's a very small fraction of the population and I hope those people would recommend their less wonky family members only use hardware and software that's fully supported).

amarone
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by amarone » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:48 am

theplayer11 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:36 am
too many replace their iphone when battery drains too fast. This happens about 2-3 years in. A battery replacement is usually all that is needed.
I am not sure why the above quote attracted little interest, and was followed by a bunch more posts stating battery degradation as a reason for upgrading. My phones are 2-4 years old. My wife gets a new iPhone every two years through work and gives me her old one. I then sell my now 4-year old phone. I have had to replace the battery, but that is not a big deal. I think it costs $80 - 90.

One warning on battery replacement: if you use someone other than Apple to replace the battery (I used BatteriesPlus, or whatever they call themselves now), Apple will never touch your phone again, so if something else goes wrong, you are stuck. Apple will not even remove the third-party battery and put an Apple battery in. In future, I will use Apple for battery replacement.

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Toons
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Toons » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:09 pm

Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:16 am
Wife and I upgraded to Samsung Galaxy S5 phones when the S6 models were released. My old Samsung Galaxy S3 is used to play music.

Unfortunately both our S5 phones have cracked screens, as well wife's phone needs a new battery.

Next week we will have screens replaced and new batteries installed for $100-$110 dollars each. We should be able to keep the repaired phones another few years. We really like our current phones, and I can't imagine needing anything my current phone doesn't supply.

I will admit the both the Samsung Galaxy S8 and S8+ look phenomenal. But way too pricey for me. We could easily afford them, but just because we can afford something doesn't mean we should buy it. I offered to buy wife the Samsung Galaxy S8 when I saw a good deal, but she just wasn't interested, her cracked screen isn't all that bad, unlike mine.

So I suppose our answer to OP's question would be we upgrade every 2-3 releases, maybe longer this cycle.

Broken Man 1999
S8 :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup
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Whatcha livin for, :-)
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Mudpuppy
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Mudpuppy » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:57 pm

SlowMovingInvestor wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:02 am
mpsz wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:37 am
Mudpuppy wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:14 pm
Personally, I upgrade every 2-4 years, depending on several factors including availability of security updates. I choose to run Android for several reasons, which usually means that security updates are provided for 2-3 years (depending on device manufacturer). But if you prefer the iPhone, Apple is pretty good about providing security updates for older devices. Arguably, iPhones have a longer support cycle than Android devices since Apple currently still provides updates for the 2013 iPhone 5s.
Agreed. You should keep your phone as long as you can but once it stops receiving security updates, it's time to upgrade.
For Android phones, you can often install an Android mod image yourself, even newer than the image provided by the manufacturer -- and you can get rid of the manufacturer's crappy apps. I did that with an old Samsung after 4 years and continue to upgrade it with new Mods
You do have to exercise a bit of caution in using mods, e.g. look into the ethics and reliability of the mod author(s). This would be similar to the caution one would exercise in choosing an anti-virus vendor. It's not foolproof and the mod author(s) could still be slipping things into the mod, but it's better than just throwing any old mod on the device.

And my last upgrade was involuntary. My previous Android device was an LG V10 which made it to 23 months old before it died from the hardware bug that affects LGs of that era. I could have tried to resolder the motherboard myself, but I just don't trust it from a reliability standpoint given how pervasive the issue was across multiple LG models. Let's hope the issue doesn't also affect the new LG manufactured Pixels, although I went with an unlocked Samsung S8+ because they were on sale the weekend my V10 died.

Mudpuppy
Posts: 5889
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:26 am
Location: Sunny California

Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Mudpuppy » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:03 pm

ENT Doc wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:53 am
mpsz wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:37 am
ENT Doc wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm
Yeah, I don't buy it. Stay frugal. Still using my iPhone 3GS. Will probably get a used 6 or 6s in another year or so from Swappa or eBay.
You should look into upgrading that phone yesterday. Seriously, the 3Gs cannot upgrade past iOS 6 and is vulnerable to thousands upon thousands of exploits. It's not safe to use this phone for anything more than making and receiving voice phone calls, and it should not be connected to any WiFi networks.
So not even on a password-protected home wifi? I only use it for phone calls, texting, and checking my email.
If you leave WiFi and/or Bluetooth active when you are outside of the home, your phone is a walking exploit factory for any passers-by. Also, on a software level, you are much more vulnerable to exploit code embedded in emails, text messages, or websites. An attacker who knows you are running an old phone, perhaps by information gathering with an earlier point of contact that caused your phone to ping back to them (e.g. an embedded image in the email that went back to a website they control so they could see your user agent string and know the phone is old), could target your phone with messages meant to exploit it.

jebmke
Posts: 8456
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by jebmke » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:47 pm

Mudpuppy wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:57 pm
My previous Android device was an LG V10 which made it to 23 months old before it died from the hardware bug that affects LGs of that era. I could have tried to resolder the motherboard myself, but I just don't trust it from a reliability standpoint given how pervasive the issue was across multiple LG models.
Sounds like the bootloop defect. My wife's LG4 just died this week (two years of use) of this.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

Jack FFR1846
Posts: 8064
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:17 pm

Feel free to send the author my way to convince me that the iPhone 4s that I refuse to upgrade the operating system is costing me more than buying some new phone. The battery is fine, the phone is 6 years old, it does everything I need, and the kicker....it was a former company phone given to me for free, so there's a divide by zero in there somewhere.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

nura
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:24 am

Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by nura » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:27 pm

sixtyforty wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:36 am
We've had our iPhone 5 for the past 5 years. Apple is not providing updates to that phone for iOS 11 and beyond.
You don't have this problem with Android, most phone can't upgraded beyond one generation of OS :oops:

PFInterest
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:25 pm

Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by PFInterest » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:35 pm

ENT Doc wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 pm
Yeah, I don't buy it. Stay frugal. Still using my iPhone 3GS. Will probably get a used 6 or 6s in another year or so from Swappa or eBay.
this is a little much.

Mudpuppy
Posts: 5889
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:26 am
Location: Sunny California

Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Mudpuppy » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:30 pm

jebmke wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:47 pm
Mudpuppy wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:57 pm
My previous Android device was an LG V10 which made it to 23 months old before it died from the hardware bug that affects LGs of that era. I could have tried to resolder the motherboard myself, but I just don't trust it from a reliability standpoint given how pervasive the issue was across multiple LG models.
Sounds like the bootloop defect. My wife's LG4 just died this week (two years of use) of this.
Yep, that was it. I was doing some woodworking project plans from pictures I had taken on the phone and the bootloop hit. I was pretty good about backing up data for the past year, but I did have to use the freezer method to get a couple of pictures off of text messages, since I don't usually care enough about text messages to back them up. There were a couple of other idea sketches that didn't make it to the backup, but I remembered them well enough to just sketch them out again.

Edit: And I'm keeping my V10 and its receipt in a drawer for the moment just in case something ever comes out of those class action lawsuits.

darrvao777
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:34 pm

Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by darrvao777 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:44 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:33 am
darrvao777 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:00 pm
It's the behavior, not the actual savings.

By holding onto a phone until it's knocking on death's door, you are staying frugal and not indulging yourself with the latest and greatest. It's that repeated behavior across all items in your life that will lead to riches.

I upgrade annually because I like having the latest and greatest. Even then, I would say phones are so advanced now that in those year to year upgrades, we are talking incremental changes at this point.
I'm using a Samsung S4. I don't know how old it is (3-4 years?) but about fifteen months ago I replaced it under warranty because it kept shutting off. Now the new refurbished one is doing something similar; it also has poor battery life; runs slowly most of the time; has a very weak wifi receiver to the point I never use it; and has no available memory for apps despite having a separate and mostly empty SD card I use for photos. I have very few apps, only the essentials plus the enormous bloatware that came with the phone.

So my (limited) experience has been that:
- battery degradation is a real issue;
- the plug connectors are weak links;
- the warranty was largely a waste of money;
- apps get bigger over time, demanding more memory;
- the internet demands more processing speed over time;
- I should invest in a better case/protection system;
- like buying cars, if I plan to keep a phone for longer than average, I should consider buying new/ good quality upfront to reduce early obsolescence and decay.

What do you think?
I think it is definitely worth splurging if you are using a Samsung S4, that's multiple generations now to upgrade!

Battery degradation is definitely a legitimate concern and is one of the reasons I update so frequently.

My wife has also had a poor experience with the plug connectors. The upgrade to USB-C which is now the industry standard should help. There are also numerous phones with wireless charging available.

I also agree the warranty is largely a waste of money but again, I upgrade yearly which makes it even more worthless for me

Apps continue to get larger so I would recommend getting a phone with at least 64GB of on board storage

Processing speed is variable since I don't do anything intensive with my phone but you'll also notice a big leap from an S4 to today's devices

A good case is always a solid idea (Amazon is often a good place to find an affordable, durable case. Beware though as many companies seem to buy reviews by offering their cases for free to inflate their ranking scores)

If you do plan on keeping your phone for longer than average, might as well buy a great phone upfront. If you don't like Samsung phones (they are known for having more bloatware and thus, more slowdown over time), consider a cleaner Android experience like what the Pixels offer. I think even going with last generation's Pixels should allow you to save money and see a quantum leap in performance over your S4.

JBTX
Posts: 4228
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by JBTX » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:04 pm

In use an iPhone 6 and am content with it. My daughter had it 2 years and then I took it when she got a Samsung. It is actually newer than that because it was replaced during warranty period.

I found quite a bit of performance increase going from 5s to 6. I can’t imagine having to still use a 5s

I really don’t know what I’ll do next phone. I can’t stand androids. I really hate that apple abandoned the separate headphone jack starting with 7.

LiterallyIronic
Posts: 841
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:36 am

Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by LiterallyIronic » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:07 pm

There is no way that method is more frrugal. The frugal way is to buy a mediocre phone and run it until it is dead.

My previous phone (Samsung T309) lasted for five years and eight months. My current phone (LG MyTouch Q) has lasted five years and nine months. It's a piece of trash. Android 2.3.6. No front facing camera. Battery life is 30 minutes of talk time. And it only gets 2G. Yet here I am using it to post this very message.

I would never use it for anything important, nor do I have any apps. But if you're looking for the frugal option, it's using the same phone until it's literally broken. Which takes at least half a decade. I don't even bother with a case, because I know I'm not going to drop it.

That being said, everytime T-Mobile uppgrades their network, my phone gets slower and slower. So that's unfortunate.

letsgobobby
Posts: 11668
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 am

Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by letsgobobby » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:15 pm

darrvao777 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:44 pm
letsgobobby wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:33 am
darrvao777 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:00 pm
It's the behavior, not the actual savings.

By holding onto a phone until it's knocking on death's door, you are staying frugal and not indulging yourself with the latest and greatest. It's that repeated behavior across all items in your life that will lead to riches.

I upgrade annually because I like having the latest and greatest. Even then, I would say phones are so advanced now that in those year to year upgrades, we are talking incremental changes at this point.
I'm using a Samsung S4. I don't know how old it is (3-4 years?) but about fifteen months ago I replaced it under warranty because it kept shutting off. Now the new refurbished one is doing something similar; it also has poor battery life; runs slowly most of the time; has a very weak wifi receiver to the point I never use it; and has no available memory for apps despite having a separate and mostly empty SD card I use for photos. I have very few apps, only the essentials plus the enormous bloatware that came with the phone.

So my (limited) experience has been that:
- battery degradation is a real issue;
- the plug connectors are weak links;
- the warranty was largely a waste of money;
- apps get bigger over time, demanding more memory;
- the internet demands more processing speed over time;
- I should invest in a better case/protection system;
- like buying cars, if I plan to keep a phone for longer than average, I should consider buying new/ good quality upfront to reduce early obsolescence and decay.

What do you think?
I think it is definitely worth splurging if you are using a Samsung S4, that's multiple generations now to upgrade!

Battery degradation is definitely a legitimate concern and is one of the reasons I update so frequently.

My wife has also had a poor experience with the plug connectors. The upgrade to USB-C which is now the industry standard should help. There are also numerous phones with wireless charging available.

I also agree the warranty is largely a waste of money but again, I upgrade yearly which makes it even more worthless for me

Apps continue to get larger so I would recommend getting a phone with at least 64GB of on board storage

Processing speed is variable since I don't do anything intensive with my phone but you'll also notice a big leap from an S4 to today's devices

A good case is always a solid idea (Amazon is often a good place to find an affordable, durable case. Beware though as many companies seem to buy reviews by offering their cases for free to inflate their ranking scores)

If you do plan on keeping your phone for longer than average, might as well buy a great phone upfront. If you don't like Samsung phones (they are known for having more bloatware and thus, more slowdown over time), consider a cleaner Android experience like what the Pixels offer. I think even going with last generation's Pixels should allow you to save money and see a quantum leap in performance over your S4.
Apologies to OP if I am hijacking...

The Pixel sounds good, though it comes only in 32 or 128 gb and the former sounds dangerously small. It is more highly rated than the new Pixel 2, and cheaper to boot.

All I need/want is battery life and efficiency. I mostly use my device for reading (forums, the newspaper, books on Kindle app). I don't game, or really watch videos, etc. Camera quality, screen quality, and audio quality are not a priority, but I'd like a headphone jack (apparently Pixel 2 does not include one). Wireless charging would be nice to spare the plug from degradation but the Pixel and Pixel XL do use USB-C as you said so maybe that's good enough.

The Pixel XL has a larger battery but does that translate into a longer usable life? It's screen is larger so I just assume the larger battery feeds the larger screen.

darrvao777
Posts: 202
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:34 pm

Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by darrvao777 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:55 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:15 pm
darrvao777 wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:44 pm
letsgobobby wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:33 am
darrvao777 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:00 pm
It's the behavior, not the actual savings.

By holding onto a phone until it's knocking on death's door, you are staying frugal and not indulging yourself with the latest and greatest. It's that repeated behavior across all items in your life that will lead to riches.

I upgrade annually because I like having the latest and greatest. Even then, I would say phones are so advanced now that in those year to year upgrades, we are talking incremental changes at this point.
I'm using a Samsung S4. I don't know how old it is (3-4 years?) but about fifteen months ago I replaced it under warranty because it kept shutting off. Now the new refurbished one is doing something similar; it also has poor battery life; runs slowly most of the time; has a very weak wifi receiver to the point I never use it; and has no available memory for apps despite having a separate and mostly empty SD card I use for photos. I have very few apps, only the essentials plus the enormous bloatware that came with the phone.

So my (limited) experience has been that:
- battery degradation is a real issue;
- the plug connectors are weak links;
- the warranty was largely a waste of money;
- apps get bigger over time, demanding more memory;
- the internet demands more processing speed over time;
- I should invest in a better case/protection system;
- like buying cars, if I plan to keep a phone for longer than average, I should consider buying new/ good quality upfront to reduce early obsolescence and decay.

What do you think?
I think it is definitely worth splurging if you are using a Samsung S4, that's multiple generations now to upgrade!

Battery degradation is definitely a legitimate concern and is one of the reasons I update so frequently.

My wife has also had a poor experience with the plug connectors. The upgrade to USB-C which is now the industry standard should help. There are also numerous phones with wireless charging available.

I also agree the warranty is largely a waste of money but again, I upgrade yearly which makes it even more worthless for me

Apps continue to get larger so I would recommend getting a phone with at least 64GB of on board storage

Processing speed is variable since I don't do anything intensive with my phone but you'll also notice a big leap from an S4 to today's devices

A good case is always a solid idea (Amazon is often a good place to find an affordable, durable case. Beware though as many companies seem to buy reviews by offering their cases for free to inflate their ranking scores)

If you do plan on keeping your phone for longer than average, might as well buy a great phone upfront. If you don't like Samsung phones (they are known for having more bloatware and thus, more slowdown over time), consider a cleaner Android experience like what the Pixels offer. I think even going with last generation's Pixels should allow you to save money and see a quantum leap in performance over your S4.
Apologies to OP if I am hijacking...

The Pixel sounds good, though it comes only in 32 or 128 gb and the former sounds dangerously small. It is more highly rated than the new Pixel 2, and cheaper to boot.

All I need/want is battery life and efficiency. I mostly use my device for reading (forums, the newspaper, books on Kindle app). I don't game, or really watch videos, etc. Camera quality, screen quality, and audio quality are not a priority, but I'd like a headphone jack (apparently Pixel 2 does not include one). Wireless charging would be nice to spare the plug from degradation but the Pixel and Pixel XL do use USB-C as you said so maybe that's good enough.

The Pixel XL has a larger battery but does that translate into a longer usable life? It's screen is larger so I just assume the larger battery feeds the larger screen.
I would definitely go with the 128gb pixel xl in your case.

I had the 32gb small pixel and the lower storage size was definitely limiting.

A bigger screen requires more battery but overall, you'll get better usage out of the larger capacity battery. Battery degradation is definitely an issue (although I tend to be abusive to the battery in my phones) so I would buy new and not used in this case

USB c is definitely a more durable plug and I like the quick charging feature as well

Don't think you can go wrong with a pixel xl and if you do any mobile photography, the camera is awesome (not something I used to care about but it makes a world of difference with young kids at home)

User avatar
Pajamas
Posts: 6015
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Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by Pajamas » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:07 pm

This probably only holds true for iPhones and you probably have to sell it as soon as the next model comes out. In your case, you are one model behind that. A lot of people will pay a good bit for the last model but not for the one before that.

This gives you a reliable idea of what your phone is worth if it is in great condition:

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/iphone-6-t ... 22328.html

You can see that the iPhone 7 is worth roughly twice as much:

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/how-much-i ... -4597.html

The same holds true for a lot of Apple devices like laptops. They tend to hold a good bit of their value if they are in great condition and especially if they have the original packaging and other materials.

jebmke
Posts: 8456
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: how often to upgrade phone?

Post by jebmke » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:19 am

Mudpuppy wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:30 pm
jebmke wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:47 pm
Mudpuppy wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:57 pm
My previous Android device was an LG V10 which made it to 23 months old before it died from the hardware bug that affects LGs of that era. I could have tried to resolder the motherboard myself, but I just don't trust it from a reliability standpoint given how pervasive the issue was across multiple LG models.
Sounds like the bootloop defect. My wife's LG4 just died this week (two years of use) of this.
Yep, that was it. I was doing some woodworking project plans from pictures I had taken on the phone and the bootloop hit. I was pretty good about backing up data for the past year, but I did have to use the freezer method to get a couple of pictures off of text messages, since I don't usually care enough about text messages to back them up. There were a couple of other idea sketches that didn't make it to the backup, but I remembered them well enough to just sketch them out again.

Edit: And I'm keeping my V10 and its receipt in a drawer for the moment just in case something ever comes out of those class action lawsuits.
Wife called Verizon today. They are sending a replacement phone -- refurbished.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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