The Rolex and The Boglehead

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Nicolas
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by Nicolas » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:02 pm

jabberwockOG wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:30 pm
Very expensive completely obsolete mechanical watches that do not keep time as well, or as reliably, as a $20 quartz Casio watch - the absolute pinnacle example of Conspicuous Consumption. Extravagant luxury items with little to no utility or even borderline uselessness relative to much less costly similar items tend to convey the most social status and power implied in ownership.

""Conspicuous consumption is the spending of money on and the acquiring of luxury goods and services to publicly display economic power—of the income or of the accumulated wealth of the buyer. To the conspicuous consumer, such a public display of discretionary economic power is a means of either attaining or maintaining a given social status.""
The same goes for diamonds/rhinestones. How does your wife like her rhinestone engagement ring?

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by Mel Lindauer » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:04 pm

What's a watch? :D
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DaftInvestor
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by DaftInvestor » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:06 pm

OP: Earlier I pointed you to a 21 page thread and believe my answer is somewhere within that thread (or similar one on watches) but in case you don't have the patience to go through it I will answer your question.
I don't own any Rolex's but do own a couple of nice watches (TAGs).
My advise: First - don't listen to the people who seem to think that people buy them only to impress people or for prestige. Maybe some people do - but most people do not. Most of us enjoy a few nice things in life and to me - having a nice watch is like owning a nice piece of art - but one that you can carry around with you and enjoy everywhere you go (versus the one on the wall of my bedroom that I glance at a few minutes in the morning and a few minutes before I fall asleep).
I personally have several watches because I like them - many are under $300 but I do have the two TAGs which cost a quite a bit more. My wife bought me one (with my permission) as a Christmas gift after we had a really good year financially. She convinced me that after the jewelry and gifts I had given her throughout the year that I deserved something nice. It was a nice way of celebrating my success for the year. I enjoy it all the time and have never regretted the decision. I don't flaunt it nor point it out to anyone - never bought it to impress anyone. I bought a second one a few years later after another good financial year. I love them both but also do enjoy occasionally changing them up and wearing some less expensive watches.
If its something you think you'd enjoy and can afford it - you should go for it.
I personally could never live without a watch - I glance down at my wrist all the time to see where I am within my schedule - I am very time driven - I don't always want to pull out my phone and there isn't always a clock within sight - I also don't want to have constant email in my face either (thus no iwatch).
Last edited by DaftInvestor on Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by triceratop » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:07 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:04 pm
What's a watch? :D
watch, n: An object invented to provide amusing disagreements for readers on Bogleheads.org.
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by Nottooold » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:15 pm

I wear my Rolex every day, even if I am just staying home. I find the new electronic watches lack soul. And of course, I have no debt so ......

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by LarryAllen » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:26 pm

I had one and it was a piece of junk. No joke the thing never kept good time. Looked great but really sucked for that semi-important job of keeping track of the time. Then it got stolen. No loss. Then I bought a Tag which is half the price and twice as bad at telling time. I bought a $20 watch at the airport last year and it's excellent! YMMV.

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My Rolex story

Post by Taylor Larimore » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:31 pm

Bogleheads:

At the end of World War II in 1945, there were millions of American service men and women waiting their turn to go home on a ship. To kill time, the Army started inter-divisional competition. I was sent to represent the 101st Airborne Division in a swimming meet in Switzerland. After the competition (in which I did poorly), I walked into a little 1-man watch shop in Basil, Switzerland, to buy gifts for my mother, father and brother in America. The proprietor, a kindly old man, recommended three moderately priced watches. They were a name I never heard of: Rolex.

A few weeks later I received word that the watches arrived safely in Miami. They are still in the family today.

When I wear a watch it is a Casio.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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Nicolas
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by Nicolas » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:34 pm

LarryAllen wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:26 pm
I had one and it was a piece of junk. No joke the thing never kept good time. Looked great but really sucked for that semi-important job of keeping track of the time. Then it got stolen. No loss. Then I bought a Tag which is half the price and twice as bad at telling time. I bought a $20 watch at the airport last year and it's excellent! YMMV.
Did you take the watches to a jeweler or an authorized dealer for adjustment?
It might be a simple tweak was needed. Also an automatic or mechanical watch is never expected to keep time as well as a quartz. One of my mechanicals gains five seconds a day and I count myself lucky.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by Whakamole » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:35 pm

Bogle826 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:22 pm
Rolex is probably one of the few watch brands available that would not lead to buyers' remorse. I definitely don't see this particular watch brand (or any watch brand) as an investment, but it does retain its value overtime. So if you were looking to sell, it's not like you would be taking a bath on the resale akin to a vehicle purchase. Of course this is not true across all the model lines - just the most popular ones such as the Submariner, Daytona, GMT etc...
I'm not even sure how much value it will retain. I think wristwatches are going the way of fine china and silverware.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by ebrasmus21 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:55 pm

Slacker wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:59 pm
ebrasmus21 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:44 pm
... I view mechanical watches as little works of art and I admire them as such. If people understood the depths that Rolex takes to design and improve their watches I think more people would respect the brand. I always saw Rolex as gaudy but then I found out how much of a passion they have for perfection and the specific depths they'll go to that end and it gave me a whole new respect for the brand.
I've watched some videos on Youtube of the luxury watch making process. I was very impressed!

Even though I personally would not buy a watch of that price point, I would love to be a master artisan involved in producing such amazing devices.
I admire the patience and skill that watchmakers have. The patience and dexterity they possess is something I'm lacking very much.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by bligh » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:55 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:54 pm
sambb wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:48 pm
i find the apple watch to be far more useful than rolex, and leaves plenty of money to invest.
If you end up buying a new apple watch every two years like most people do with smartphones - it could prove to be more expensive than a rolex :)
$350 * 10 (ie. 20 years) and you still get to only $3,500. Double it.. and 40 years of upgrades gets you to just $7,000. Plus you are going to be paying for it in future dollars and you can choose to put off the purchase during hard times. Plus the watch will keep getting better or more useful for me (or else why upgrade?) .. Or it will keep getting cheaper. It already functions as a continuous heart rate monitor that can alert me if I have irregular heart beats and such. In 20 years? It could basically be like having an annual physical, strapped to your wrist monitoring you 24/7.

Nope. No contest.


I am tiny bit of a watch enthusiast. I own an Omega, 2 Breitlings and a Tag Heuer. (All in the 2-8K range)

Also I own 3 G Gshocks, 1 Citizen Eco Drive, and a couple of others. All I ever wear now is my Apple Watch, and occasionally one of my G Shocks.

I regret the purchase of all of my watches at this point. But obviously, the expensive ones hurt more. Just servicing them costs me more than a brand new Apple Watch. I feel like an idiot wearing them around now. :oops:

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by ebrasmus21 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:00 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:06 pm
OP: Earlier I pointed you to a 21 page thread and believe my answer is somewhere within that thread (or similar one on watches) but in case you don't have the patience to go through it I will answer your question.
I don't own any Rolex's but do own a couple of nice watches (TAGs).
My advise: First - don't listen to the people who seem to think that people buy them only to impress people or for prestige. Maybe some people do - but most people do not. Most of us enjoy a few nice things in life and to me - having a nice watch is like owning a nice piece of art - but one that you can carry around with you and enjoy everywhere you go (versus the one on the wall of my bedroom that I glance at a few minutes in the morning and a few minutes before I fall asleep).
I personally have several watches because I like them - many are under $300 but I do have the two TAGs which cost a quite a bit more. My wife bought me one (with my permission) as a Christmas gift after we had a really good year financially. She convinced me that after the jewelry and gifts I had given her throughout the year that I deserved something nice. It was a nice way of celebrating my success for the year. I enjoy it all the time and have never regretted the decision. I don't flaunt it nor point it out to anyone - never bought it to impress anyone. I bought a second one a few years later after another good financial year. I love them both but also do enjoy occasionally changing them up and wearing some less expensive watches.
If its something you think you'd enjoy and can afford it - you should go for it.
I personally could never live without a watch - I glance down at my wrist all the time to see where I am within my schedule - I am very time driven - I don't always want to pull out my phone and there isn't always a clock within sight - I also don't want to have constant email in my face either (thus no iwatch).
Wasn't trying to ignore your guidance to that mega thread. Wanted to have some time to read through it before commenting. I think at some point in the future, if our careers keep progressing, it will be something I can seriously consider. I understand that I could invest the money. I understand that I could attain FI sooner without luxuries but I suppose I'm not as die-hard of a BH when it comes to that. I want to save wisely and spend wisely; somewhere in that equation maybe a nice mechanical watch makes sense.

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Re: My Rolex story

Post by ebrasmus21 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:03 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:31 pm
Bogleheads:

At the end of World War II in 1945, there were millions of American service men and women waiting their turn to go home on a ship. To kill time, the Army started inter-divisional competition. I was sent to represent the 101st Airborne Division in a swimming meet in Switzerland. After the competition (in which I did poorly), I walked into a little 1-man watch shop in Basil, Switzerland, to buy gifts for my mother, father and brother in America. The proprietor, a kindly old man, recommended three moderately priced watches. They were a name I never heard of: Rolex.

A few weeks later I received word that the watches arrived safely in Miami. They are still in the family today.

When I wear a watch it is a Casio.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Neat story, Taylor. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by Seasonal » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:06 pm

gloss151 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:51 pm
The one watch I wear today is a Timex Ironman watch. I'm on my 2nd band at 9 years. I have one backup band, so I hope to get 20years out of this watch. I wear a watch bc I do a fair bit of interval exercise and it is nice to have the Chrono feature.
That's my favorite. The digits are large and easy to read. It has a light for reading in the dark. The chrono, timer and alarm features are very useful. The ability to switch time zones easily is great for travel. It's rather difficult to do most of these on a non-digital watch.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by bligh » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:07 pm

Nicolas wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:02 pm
jabberwockOG wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:30 pm
Very expensive completely obsolete mechanical watches that do not keep time as well, or as reliably, as a $20 quartz Casio watch - the absolute pinnacle example of Conspicuous Consumption. Extravagant luxury items with little to no utility or even borderline uselessness relative to much less costly similar items tend to convey the most social status and power implied in ownership.

""Conspicuous consumption is the spending of money on and the acquiring of luxury goods and services to publicly display economic power—of the income or of the accumulated wealth of the buyer. To the conspicuous consumer, such a public display of discretionary economic power is a means of either attaining or maintaining a given social status.""
The same goes for diamonds/rhinestones. How does your wife like her rhinestone engagement ring?
The DeBeers Diamond engagement ring campaign is a well known marketing success story. It is absolutely an item of conspicuous consumption, and it was absolutely promoted via an expertly crafted marketing campaign.

I did buy my wife a diamond engagement ring. But its a tiny little stone that is probably less than a 0.25 carats and didn't cost me much. I could easily afford a lot more. She knew it and she didn't really care. It is one of the many things I love about her.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by CyberBob » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:19 pm

ebrasmus21 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:42 pm
How many Bogleheads out there own and wear a Rolex (or similar)? Those that do, any regrets?

I'd like to one day own a nice watch but for right now I just admire them all. DW might not ever sign off on a watch that expensive but still I'm curious what other Bogleheads have to say.
If you're looking at a Rolex Submariner, but don't want to part with so much coin, may I suggest: https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/dive ... ramik.html

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by knpstr » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:34 pm

Who said Rolex's don't hold their value?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olawVhNhJqw
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius

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bligh
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by bligh » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:47 pm

knpstr wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:34 pm
Who said Rolex's don't hold their value?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olawVhNhJqw
Wow. Forget gold, Vanguard or Blackrock should offer up a Rolex ETF. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by ebrasmus21 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:56 pm

knpstr wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:34 pm
Who said Rolex's don't hold their value?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olawVhNhJqw
That man was beside himself in shock. Great video, thanks for sharing.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by Slacker » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:12 pm

triceratop wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:21 pm
It's interesting; I wonder how many people in this thread bashing Rolexes have bought jewelry for their SO and see no issue with that.

I myself am interested in a sub-$200 Daniel Wellington; they're nice watches too though a bit too expensive for my taste at the moment. I currently wear a $40 Casio.
I didn't bash Rolexes and similar watches (though I did say I wouldn't buy one for myself), however the jewelry I've bought for my SO is comparable to what most people discuss in watches they've bought. $200 engagement ring, $50 earrings, and I made a gold necklace with about $75 of supplies and close to 20hrs of labor. We aren't huge into jewelry and she mostly wears costume jewelry when she does wear some.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by Wildebeest » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:12 pm

Time is money. I have all the money I need, so why need a fancy watch to check time?

I can check my phone, set an alarm on my phone. I think it helps conversations if I am not checking my phone for the time or what ever. For what ever reason I thought it was acceptable to check my watch anytime. I hope I am a nicer person without a watch.

I never wanted a Rolex. The fanciest watch I owned was a Seiko. I still have it and I think is looks gaudy.
The Golden Rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by 2pedals » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:20 pm

gloss151 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:51 pm
FelixTheCat wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:05 pm
I own a nice watch. It also monitors my fitness and heart rate. Love my Fitbit. :D
I've owned many gps/hr monitor/step counting/abc mountaineering watches over the years. Fun to use them for a couple months, but the novelty quickly wears off, IMO.

The one watch I wear today is a Timex Ironman watch. I'm on my 2nd band at 9 years. I have one backup band, so I hope to get 20years out of this watch. I wear a watch bc I do a fair bit of interval exercise and it is nice to have the Chrono feature.

Rolexs are nice if you value the craftsmanship and want to support the makers of those time pieces.

I don't own anything outside of investments with a value over $1k. it makes lifestyle maintenance simple. If every millionaire practiced a little more discretion, our society would feel less divided. How you make others feel is important.

Biden said, "don't tell me what you value, show me your budget and I'll show you what you value." Do you value jewelry/public-art more than exercise, more than eating out with friends, more than buying local produce... Probably not good comparisons bc you're not buying this jewelry annually, but something to consider.
+1
Not counting but I think I am my 5th version of the Timex Ironman since the late 1990's, I get a new one approx every 5th year when the band gives out. I have a spare in my desk that I got on sale about 2 years ago. It has multiple alarm settings, swim with it, run with it, ride my bike with it, very durable, count down timer and chrono lap timer what else could you ask for about $50?
Last edited by 2pedals on Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by ERISA Stone » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:21 pm

Watches are a little weird category for me. I worked part-time at a jewelry store back in the day and I used to love looking at watches and hoping one day to own some nice ones. Now that I can afford them, I don't want people to know that I can.

My last few purchases have been Citizens and fitness watches. I could see myself getting an Omega or Tag sometime in the future for a special birthday or anniversary.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by BanquetBeer » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:57 pm

ebrasmus21 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:11 pm
adamthesmythe wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:10 pm
I have no use for jewelry.

I inherited an expensive gold watch. Haven't ever worn it.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/talki ... k-nicklaus
I have inherited that same watch (unknown year by looks the same) - don't wear it because it's so flashy. Wear a smart watch if anything. Never have problems getting it out of my pants ;) but I would never wear a suit if my job depended on it. Sits at the bank until I have a direct heir or child who wants to pawn it or is into watches.

If you want one I'm sure you can buy it used for quite a deal.

I would disagree with comparing lux watches to cars - cars can provide a real difference in experience. Watches is more intiectual appreciation for having something fancy but the end result (knowing the time) is the same.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by hmw » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:01 pm

My wife and I received a pair of matching Rolex at our wedding. We hardly wear them. My daily watch used to be a Tag (another gift) until I got an Apple Watch. I personally wouldn't have bought the Rolex or the Tag.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by ClevrChico » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:44 pm

They look nice, but I need accuracy for work, so a Casio digital is on my wrist. I've thought about buying a token amount of Casio stock.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by AlohaJoe » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:01 pm

ebrasmus21 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:56 pm
knpstr wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:34 pm
Who said Rolex's don't hold their value?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olawVhNhJqw
That man was beside himself in shock. Great video, thanks for sharing.
Definitely a cool video! Finding $80,000 under your mattress would be pretty nice!

(Of course, since this is Bogleheads....if he had invested that $120 into the S&P 500 back in 1960 it would be worth nearly $300,000 today, which would let you buy 3 of those :beer )

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by ebrasmus21 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:07 pm

AlohaJoe wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:01 pm
ebrasmus21 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:56 pm
knpstr wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:34 pm
Who said Rolex's don't hold their value?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olawVhNhJqw
That man was beside himself in shock. Great video, thanks for sharing.
Definitely a cool video! Finding $80,000 under your mattress would be pretty nice!

(Of course, since this is Bogleheads....if he had invested that $120 into the S&P 500 back in 1960 it would be worth nearly $300,000 today, which would let you buy 3 of those :beer )
Hard to argue with that. However, 300K might only be enough to afford a second-hand Patek Grand Complication so there's always that....

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by jabberwockOG » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:22 pm

Nicolas wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:02 pm
jabberwockOG wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:30 pm
Very expensive completely obsolete mechanical watches that do not keep time as well, or as reliably, as a $20 quartz Casio watch - the absolute pinnacle example of Conspicuous Consumption. Extravagant luxury items with little to no utility or even borderline uselessness relative to much less costly similar items tend to convey the most social status and power implied in ownership.

""Conspicuous consumption is the spending of money on and the acquiring of luxury goods and services to publicly display economic power—of the income or of the accumulated wealth of the buyer. To the conspicuous consumer, such a public display of discretionary economic power is a means of either attaining or maintaining a given social status.""
The same goes for diamonds/rhinestones. How does your wife like her rhinestone engagement ring?
Apparently struck a nerve ...calm down...take a breath....it will be OK : )

As an aside we have a couple of expensive watches in the family - 18k Swiss beautifully made but hopelessly obsolete, from the late 1940s - both sit in the safe to be passed down as family keepsakes when the time comes.

My daily watch is a 10 year old Timex Ironman on its 2 or 3 battery I think. Works great and has a little light in the dial to guide me to the bathroom in the middle of the night...priceless.
Last edited by jabberwockOG on Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by corner559 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:28 pm

I think a lot of people in the other "watch" thread concluded (and I agree) that a Rolex and other watches at that price point are no longer really watches. They're jewelry.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by TD2626 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:34 pm

It is basically impossible to provide economic justification for this sort of extravagance.

If one is in a job in which wearing a nice watch is "expected" and buying the watch increases the net present value of your future earnings by enough to justify the cost, then maybe the purchase would be justified as a method of maximizing human capital. But I would need to see pages of math plus links to multiple academic research articles demonstrating this effect and how it applies to an individual's situation before I would support such extravagance.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by randomguy » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:40 pm

gloss151 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:51 pm
FelixTheCat wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:05 pm
I own a nice watch. It also monitors my fitness and heart rate. Love my Fitbit. :D
I've owned many gps/hr monitor/step counting/abc mountaineering watches over the years. Fun to use them for a couple months, but the novelty quickly wears off, IMO.

And I have worn my GPS watch on every run for 5+ years and my HRM on pretty much every interval workout for the past 20:). Ones persons novelty is someone elses useful info.Personally I haven't gotten the iWatch buzz yet. All I use it for is fitness stuff and the dedicated ones are better so far. YMMV.


I don't get why a guy wants to buy a piece of jewelry to wear around. It isn't my thing. But I totally understand wanting something that most people think is crazy. Most of us have one or two things where we spend stupid money on it. Read the thread about people spending 1k+ on their dog per year for example. But if they can afford it and spending that money on the item makes you happy, go for it..

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by randomguy » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:43 pm

TD2626 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:34 pm
It is basically impossible to provide economic justification for this sort of extravagance.

If one is in a job in which wearing a nice watch is "expected" and buying the watch increases the net present value of your future earnings by enough to justify the cost, then maybe the purchase would be justified as a method of maximizing human capital. But I would need to see pages of math plus links to multiple academic research articles demonstrating this effect and how it applies to an individual's situation before I would support such extravagance.
Sure. But I think you would find it hard to come up with economic justification for going to a movie, buying a book, going on vacation, or any of a zillion other activities. The questions are more can you afford the money and then will spending the money on a watch be the best use of it. Without knowing the alternatives it is hard to say. I would get zero value out of the watch. Other people might smile 4x day when they check the time.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by triceratop » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:48 pm

TD2626 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:34 pm
It is basically impossible to provide economic justification for this sort of extravagance.

If one is in a job in which wearing a nice watch is "expected" and buying the watch increases the net present value of your future earnings by enough to justify the cost, then maybe the purchase would be justified as a method of maximizing human capital. But I would need to see pages of math plus links to multiple academic research articles demonstrating this effect and how it applies to an individual's situation before I would support such extravagance.
I just tried presenting this argument to my girlfriend for why jewelry was completely superfluous to life. It wasn't received as well as you might think. Notice that you can support such extravagance without providing an economic justification for it; in fact the OP did not mention economics at all!

I do lots of things in life that are unmoored from economic justification.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."

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Petrocelli
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by Petrocelli » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:32 pm

ebrasmus21 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:42 pm
How many Bogleheads out there own and wear a Rolex (or similar)? Those that do, any regrets?

I'd like to one day own a nice watch but for right now I just admire them all. DW might not ever sign off on a watch that expensive but still I'm curious what other Bogleheads have to say.
I consider it a personal triumph every time Rolex thread starts...

I bought my wife a Rolex for about $2,500 30 years ago. I could sell that watch used for $5,000 today. A new one costs about $9,000.

About 5 years ago my wife got me this watch as a Christmas present. I love it. But I really don't think anyone knows it is a Rolex. So I never understand how anyone thinks it's a status symbol.

https://www.rolex.com/watches/datejust/ ... -0007.html
Petrocelli (not the real Rico, but just a fan)

hilink73
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by hilink73 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:57 pm

ebrasmus21 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:42 pm
How many Bogleheads out there own and wear a Rolex (or similar)? Those that do, any regrets?

I'd like to one day own a nice watch but for right now I just admire them all. DW might not ever sign off on a watch that expensive but still I'm curious what other Bogleheads have to say.

I would buy a Rolex if I hadn't bought another Swiss automatic watch in my early twenties, which I'm still wearing today, every day.

This watch is a piece of me. Traveled around the world with me, saw what I saw, is visible on almost every photo.
I'd never bring it over me to replace it.

It has a black leather wriststrap so it doesn't fit to brown belts and shoes, but I think I have to live with that.
Though about getting a metal wriststrap (which would fit every color), but that would alter the appearance in a way I don't like.

No plastic watch has that style and could match that experience.

desiderium
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by desiderium » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:00 am

The comforting paradox of being a boglehead is that it can enable you to make choices, including those that have no utiltarian rationale--like owning a rolex

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randomizer
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by randomizer » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:04 am

Don't even own a watch.
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by daveydoo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:50 am

ebrasmus21 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:44 pm
...I view mechanical watches as little works of art and I admire them as such...
+1. Again. Sigh...

Whatever you do, do not let other people on BH condescendingly explain to you why you want a Rolex. Or a car other than a ten year-old Camry. You know why you want it; they presume that they know why you want it. Cars and watches -- different people want nice ones for many, many different reasons. I look at my watch (alas, not a Rolex) at least 50 times a day. My phone is in my pocket. I guess I could just be one of those tools who slaps my phone on the table at the start of every meeting so I don't miss a hilarious meme; if you never go 30 seconds without looking at your phone, you'd never need a watch. But you'd be miserable company and would probably never have the kind of job that can get you a Rolex :D .
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by daveydoo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:55 am

Petrocelli wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:32 pm

About 5 years ago my wife got me this watch as a Christmas present. I love it.
Was waiting for you! That's a beautiful watch! My DS was talking that up to me a few months back -- apropos of nothing. I think he wants something to inherit from me since there ain't much so far :D.
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

bluebolt
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by bluebolt » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:32 am

daveydoo wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:50 am
ebrasmus21 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:44 pm
...I view mechanical watches as little works of art and I admire them as such...
+1. Again. Sigh...

Whatever you do, do not let other people on BH condescendingly explain to you why you want a Rolex. Or a car other than a ten year-old Camry. You know why you want it; they presume that they know why you want it. Cars and watches -- different people want nice ones for many, many different reasons. I look at my watch (alas, not a Rolex) at least 50 times a day. My phone is in my pocket. I guess I could just be one of those tools who slaps my phone on the table at the start of every meeting so I don't miss a hilarious meme; if you never go 30 seconds without looking at your phone, you'd never need a watch. But you'd be miserable company and would probably never have the kind of job that can get you a Rolex :D .
As you condescendingly explain why I can't afford a Rolex. :happy

mak1277
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by mak1277 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:34 am

At what point would a boglehead say it's OK to buy a Rolex (or similar luxury item)? Surely the goal can't *just* be the accumulation of wealth. So is it OK to buy a Rolex:

- Once you've extinguished debt and fully fund retirement accounts?
- Once you earn the equivalent of a Rolex every month?
- Once you SAVE the equivalent of a Rolex every month?
- Once you're FI?
- never?

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Strayshot
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by Strayshot » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:59 am

Every once in a while these kinds of threads start. Similar questions to "should I buy a Rolex" are "should I fly business class" or "should I buy a Lexus instead of a Toyota" and they turn into a question of wants vs needs. Some BH's say "never in a million years" and others say "go for it as long as retirement is covered". There will never be a general consensus.

My opinion: if you want a Rolex and retirement is covered, buy a Rolex. As another person mentioned, Rolex and Patek are two brands that hold value better than many others.

One of my favorites is Armand Nicolet but don't buy them if you want recognition status, they are relatively unknown in the US.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by LarryAllen » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:44 am

Nicolas wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:34 pm
LarryAllen wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:26 pm
I had one and it was a piece of junk. No joke the thing never kept good time. Looked great but really sucked for that semi-important job of keeping track of the time. Then it got stolen. No loss. Then I bought a Tag which is half the price and twice as bad at telling time. I bought a $20 watch at the airport last year and it's excellent! YMMV.
Did you take the watches to a jeweler or an authorized dealer for adjustment?
It might be a simple tweak was needed. Also an automatic or mechanical watch is never expected to keep time as well as a quartz. One of my mechanicals gains five seconds a day and I count myself lucky.
Yup. Every five years. Spent $500+ for a service at an authorized rollie dealer. One time after the service it kept even worse time than before. Lol. Have not taken the Tag in but it's such garbage I can't keep it too much longer.

mak1277
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by mak1277 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:57 am

LarryAllen wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:44 am
Nicolas wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:34 pm
LarryAllen wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:26 pm
I had one and it was a piece of junk. No joke the thing never kept good time. Looked great but really sucked for that semi-important job of keeping track of the time. Then it got stolen. No loss. Then I bought a Tag which is half the price and twice as bad at telling time. I bought a $20 watch at the airport last year and it's excellent! YMMV.
Did you take the watches to a jeweler or an authorized dealer for adjustment?
It might be a simple tweak was needed. Also an automatic or mechanical watch is never expected to keep time as well as a quartz. One of my mechanicals gains five seconds a day and I count myself lucky.
Yup. Every five years. Spent $500+ for a service at an authorized rollie dealer. One time after the service it kept even worse time than before. Lol. Have not taken the Tag in but it's such garbage I can't keep it too much longer.
Curious about what your expectations are for these. Current Rolex models are more or less guaranteed to be within 2 seconds per day.

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gasdoc
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Re: My Rolex story

Post by gasdoc » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:03 am

ebrasmus21 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:03 pm
Taylor Larimore wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:31 pm
Bogleheads:

At the end of World War II in 1945, there were millions of American service men and women waiting their turn to go home on a ship. To kill time, the Army started inter-divisional competition. I was sent to represent the 101st Airborne Division in a swimming meet in Switzerland. After the competition (in which I did poorly), I walked into a little 1-man watch shop in Basil, Switzerland, to buy gifts for my mother, father and brother in America. The proprietor, a kindly old man, recommended three moderately priced watches. They were a name I never heard of: Rolex.

A few weeks later I received word that the watches arrived safely in Miami. They are still in the family today.

When I wear a watch it is a Casio.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Neat story, Taylor. Thanks for sharing!
I was going to say the same thing. Thanks, Taylor!

gasdoc

clutchied
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by clutchied » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:37 am

I used to wear watches then stopped b/c my cell had a clock.

I recently bought myself a nice citizen eco-drive for $80 and put a handmade leather band on it.

I didn't realize how much I missed having a watch until I started wearing one again. It's so much handier than a phone and easier to access. It's just a small convenience but it has made a major impact on me.


I would really like to have a A. Lange & Sohne at some point :)

maybe this one....
Image

ebrasmus21
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by ebrasmus21 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:43 am

clutchied wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:37 am
I used to wear watches then stopped b/c my cell had a clock.

I recently bought myself a nice citizen eco-drive for $80 and put a handmade leather band on it.

I didn't realize how much I missed having a watch until I started wearing one again. It's so much handier than a phone and easier to access. It's just a small convenience but it has made a major impact on me.


I would really like to have a A. Lange & Sohne at some point :)

maybe this one....
Image
Very classy. I hope you get it one day :)

ebrasmus21
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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by ebrasmus21 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:45 am

Strayshot wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:59 am
Every once in a while these kinds of threads start. Similar questions to "should I buy a Rolex" are "should I fly business class" or "should I buy a Lexus instead of a Toyota" and they turn into a question of wants vs needs. Some BH's say "never in a million years" and others say "go for it as long as retirement is covered". There will never be a general consensus.

My opinion: if you want a Rolex and retirement is covered, buy a Rolex. As another person mentioned, Rolex and Patek are two brands that hold value better than many others.

One of my favorites is Armand Nicolet but don't buy them if you want recognition status, they are relatively unknown in the US.
Looks like they have some nice pieces.

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Re: The Rolex and The Boglehead

Post by ebrasmus21 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:46 am

mak1277 wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:34 am
At what point would a boglehead say it's OK to buy a Rolex (or similar luxury item)? Surely the goal can't *just* be the accumulation of wealth. So is it OK to buy a Rolex:

- Once you've extinguished debt and fully fund retirement accounts?
- Once you earn the equivalent of a Rolex every month?
- Once you SAVE the equivalent of a Rolex every month?
- Once you're FI?
- never?
I'm thinking the majority of BH would say *never*

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