Lifestyle Creep

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Doom&Gloom
Posts: 1523
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Doom&Gloom » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:02 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:39 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:35 am
Meg77 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:16 am
I have consciously embraced lifestyle creep. I don't see why it is considered such a negative thing. It's one thing to limit consumption while you are paying off consumer debt or trying to establish a basic financial stability. But after that, as my income (and net worth) has increased, so has my lifestyle. ...
+1

I considered lifestyle creep to be a goal long before I had ever heard the term.
If lifestyle creep were a good thing, it would be called not "lifestyle creep" but "lifestyle heap."

Victoria
"Eye of the beholder" or "A rose by any other name ..." or "All things in moderation" or "YMMV"

Not sure which, if any, are applicable
:happy

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17582
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:07 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:02 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:39 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:35 am
Meg77 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:16 am
I have consciously embraced lifestyle creep. I don't see why it is considered such a negative thing. It's one thing to limit consumption while you are paying off consumer debt or trying to establish a basic financial stability. But after that, as my income (and net worth) has increased, so has my lifestyle. ...
+1

I considered lifestyle creep to be a goal long before I had ever heard the term.
If lifestyle creep were a good thing, it would be called not "lifestyle creep" but "lifestyle heap."

Victoria
"Eye of the beholder" or "A rose by any other name ..." or "All things in moderation" or "YMMV"

Not sure which, if any, are applicable
:happy
My current motto is memento mori. It helps with procrastination, but may also be useful with lifestyle creep.

Cheers,
Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

finite_difference
Posts: 725
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by finite_difference » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:36 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:02 pm
We are beginning to book longer personal flights Premium Economy.
Is that creep or keeping things the same. Because I’m pretty sure Economy is worse than ever, so Premium Economy might be equal to Economy from 20 years ago.

Although the iPads and entertainment options have improved massively so not complaining about anything except the legroom!
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 6957
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:47 pm

finite_difference wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:36 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:02 pm
We are beginning to book longer personal flights Premium Economy.
Is that creep or keeping things the same. Because I’m pretty sure Economy is worse than ever, so Premium Economy might be equal to Economy from 20 years ago.

Although the iPads and entertainment options have improved massively so not complaining about anything except the legroom!
You might be right about that. We had just accepted the slow disintegration of going through security, the cramped seating, etc. What’s the opposite of hedonic adaptation? Frog slow boil? On one trio, United misplaced a bag on the way to the Caymans (try getting beach attire on Christmas Day) and then misplaced another bag on the way home; both flights were direct.

My wife and son are flying to Japan next month. I suggested business class, but he had flown Premium Economy on Cathay to HK before, and said that it was superb. It still runs counter to our instincts, but I realized that I had stopped traveling as much as I had, in large part because it’s become grueling and unpleasant. 20 years ago I actually looked forward to Virgin Upper Class flights.

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17582
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:54 pm

finite_difference wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:36 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:02 pm
We are beginning to book longer personal flights Premium Economy.
Although the iPads and entertainment options have improved massively so not complaining about anything except the legroom!
You mean that lifestyle creep makes your legs longer?
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:47 pm
What’s the opposite of hedonic adaptation? Frog slow boil?
With flying it looks like Stockholm Syndrome, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome .

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

User avatar
Pajamas
Posts: 2837
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:32 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Pajamas » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:01 pm

I agree that upgrading an airline seat from Economy to a slightly higher class is not really lifestyle creep but an issue of maintaining the same lifestyle. Airline tickets have come down in price significantly during my lifetime but there has definitely been a huge decrease in the basic level of service, generally.

I fly only occasionally these days and really dread it, from getting to the airport to taking my shoes off to being questioned about the contents of my luggage and watching people have their tubes of toothpaste confiscated for being over 3 oz. and then being smashed in a tiny seat with stale air and smells and noises in an environment almost completely not under my control.

One thing I have learned to do instead of upgrading to a higher class of seat is to upgrade to a higher class of airline. Some carriers like JetBlue have more legroom and better amenities such as snacks and waiting areas and luggage policies than others, like United with less legroom and charges for carry-on bags in Economy. Rather than pay more to fly in a better seat on an inferior airline, pay the same to fly in a better seat on a superior airline when possible. The whole experience is better. The employees and other passengers are usually in a better mood, too.

curmudgeon
Posts: 1334
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:00 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by curmudgeon » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:11 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:47 pm
finite_difference wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:36 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:02 pm
We are beginning to book longer personal flights Premium Economy.
Is that creep or keeping things the same. Because I’m pretty sure Economy is worse than ever, so Premium Economy might be equal to Economy from 20 years ago.

Although the iPads and entertainment options have improved massively so not complaining about anything except the legroom!
You might be right about that. We had just accepted the slow disintegration of going through security, the cramped seating, etc. What’s the opposite of hedonic adaptation? Frog slow boil? On one trio, United misplaced a bag on the way to the Caymans (try getting beach attire on Christmas Day) and then misplaced another bag on the way home; both flights were direct.

My wife and son are flying to Japan next month. I suggested business class, but he had flown Premium Economy on Cathay to HK before, and said that it was superb. It still runs counter to our instincts, but I realized that I had stopped traveling as much as I had, in large part because it’s become grueling and unpleasant. 20 years ago I actually looked forward to Virgin Upper Class flights.
The good "premium economy" (typically not on US carriers) are definitely a significant step up; not just more legroom, but also wider seats etc.

We consciously applied "lifestyle creep" over the years, but against a pretty frugal background, so it never got out of hand. The first few years (three kids, single income), we watched spending very tightly while we were establishing a financial base. As time went on and things went well, we increased both saving and spending. When it became clear that we were on a glide path to a comfortable retirement, we opened up spending a bit more, but on things that would be easy to cut back or forego (expensive family travel, primarily).

I joked that I was working the last few years to be able to afford to fly business class in retirement, but now that it is time to pull the trigger on that, it's still hard :confused I may compromise by using some of our miles stash on "saver" business class if I can find seats; somehow that doesn't feel so much like real money.

akron1977
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:48 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by akron1977 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:49 pm

Now buy 12 packs of soda (on sale, $2.50-3.00) instead of 2L bottles

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 6957
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:58 pm

To curmudgeon and Pajama’s points, we are picking airlines much more critically. Newark Airport, for example is 10-15 minutes away, but we opt for JetBlue from JFK, which takes an hour plus to get to, rather than crap United from EWR. Recently, DW had a choice of JetBlue Premium Economy from EWR or United First, also from EWR, and chose JetBlue (both choices on someone else’s nickel).

Son’s employer flew him Cathay Premium Economy to HK, so I read some reviews. Other than lie flat seats, which they didn’t have, they really had every amenity you could want, and the seats were very comfortable.

Levett
Posts: 4177
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:10 pm
Location: upper Midwest

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Levett » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:02 pm

Poker 27 wrote:

"Nearly all aspects of my life have crept up with my income level. I mean what is the point of making more $ if you are not going to enjoy it?"

Yes. It ain't creep; it's reward. 8-)

That's the point.

Lev

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 6957
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by TomatoTomahto » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:22 pm

Levett wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:02 pm
Poker 27 wrote:

"Nearly all aspects of my life have crept up with my income level. I mean what is the point of making more $ if you are not going to enjoy it?"

Yes. It ain't creep; it's reward. 8-)

That's the point.

Lev
Sort of. Our annual income has gone up, rough approximation, 5x. Taxes up 10x. After college costs, inflation effects, and savings, there is no way that consumption could, or should, keep pace.

User avatar
Pajamas
Posts: 2837
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:32 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Pajamas » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:28 pm

akron1977 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:49 pm
Now buy 12 packs of soda (on sale, $2.50-3.00) instead of 2L bottles
Interesting. When I was young I bought 2L bottles of soda because they were much less expensive on a per-ounce basis.

When I got a little older, I realized that it was difficult for me to drink a 2L bottle of soda before it started going flat and that I didn't really want all that soda in the first place, so it was actually less expensive to buy cans overall. Sometimes I even found myself opening a 2L bottle to offer to a guest and then having to force myself to drink it so I wouldn't have to pour it down the drain. So I started buying cases of cans on sale for about $0.25 a can, just like you, which meant making a special trip to a chain drugstore and then hauling them home. That was less expensive considering my use of soda. The 2L bottles were a false economy.

Then when I got even older, I realized I shouldn't be drinking soda regularly as it causes rotten teeth, weight gain, and diabetes. The deciding factor was when I left a case on a shelf for so long (upside down) that the soda somehow ate through the seal at the tabs and leaked. Now I don't buy soda at all. :beer

Going back to the thread topic, I have recently started buying better quality coffee and grinding the beans myself. It's a simple and relatively inexpensive upgrade to my previous coffee. In general, there is no good reason for me to consider price the primary or even a deciding factor when choosing groceries, although it is still a factor.

2Birds1Stone
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:33 pm
Location: New York

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:59 pm

lostdog wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:51 am
A luxury car. An Infiniti G37x coupe. It was a mistake and I learned my lesson. Never again. I sold it and bought a used 2011 Toyota Corolla.
Why the regret? Did you have problems?

Purchased a G37s Coupe 2 years ago, and despite depreciation have been relatively happy.

Fire2030
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:03 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Fire2030 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:16 pm

After resisting for a long time, we now have regular cleaning service and joined Lifetime in lieu of Y.

Adjusted the budget accordingly :mrgreen:

Our Camry's are now 15Yr & 8Yr old...when a major repair pops up on the 15 yr old...will resist to join the SUV club.

flyingaway
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:19 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by flyingaway » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:24 pm

We have a Lexus SUV. I wanted to buy a Toyota RAV4 SUV after our Infiniti sedan was totaled. My wife did not seem to like the idea of downgrading our cars. So I decided to not buy any car. I am now taking public bus to work. We are a one car family now, down from three cars one year ago.

thangngo
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by thangngo » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:10 pm

4nursebee wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:00 pm
Thanks in advance for anything you share here!

I have renewed interest in learning about and increasing my own awareness of lifestyle creep. I am hoping others will share personal situations where they experienced or resisted this issue. What have you dealt with? What creep came into your life that you later regretted? What did you avoid and what benefit did you get?
I don't have one myself yet, except for maybe traveling. But I'm aware of the following things, not in any particular order:
1. Buy a big, expensive house in an affluent area.
2. Having children
3. Pay for private school for #2.
4. Date an attractive but not responsible person
5. Marry #4.
6. Buy/Lease luxury car

User avatar
Nicolas
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:41 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Nicolas » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:27 pm

Fire2030 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:16 pm
After resisting for a long time, we now have regular cleaning service and joined Lifetime in lieu of Y.
...Lifetime in lieu if Y :confused
Please translate.

lostdog
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by lostdog » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:41 pm

2Birds1Stone wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:59 pm
lostdog wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:51 am
A luxury car. An Infiniti G37x coupe. It was a mistake and I learned my lesson. Never again. I sold it and bought a used 2011 Toyota Corolla.
Why the regret? Did you have problems?

Purchased a G37s Coupe 2 years ago, and despite depreciation have been relatively happy.
Cost of ownership and the windshield was making a bouncing noise. Infiniti couldn't find the issue and pretty much told me to deal with it.
Financial Independence is the best revenge. | "Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, simplify." -Thoreau

heybro
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by heybro » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:47 pm

4nursebee wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:00 pm
Thanks in advance for anything you share here!

I have renewed interest in learning about and increasing my own awareness of lifestyle creep. I am hoping others will share personal situations where they experienced or resisted this issue. What have you dealt with? What creep came into your life that you later regretted? What did you avoid and what benefit did you get?
I think some lifestyle creep is unavoidable especially as it relates to actually being older.
Last edited by heybro on Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

SEAworld9
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:13 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by SEAworld9 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:57 pm

Nicolas wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:27 pm
Fire2030 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:16 pm
After resisting for a long time, we now have regular cleaning service and joined Lifetime in lieu of Y.
...Lifetime in lieu if Y :confused
Please translate.
i assuming this means they joined lifetime fitness instead of the ymca.

heybro
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by heybro » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:01 pm

I want to point out that sometimes 'Lifestyle Creep' is impossible to carry out.

For instance, after doing things for free or for such low cost, it sort of puts more pressure on what $100 should get you. I've often bought the 100.00 thing and then realized it wasn't any greater than my free or $1 thing and ended up returning it or swearing to never do it again. When you enjoy nothing than something has to be REALLY good if you have to pay for it.

SEAworld9
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:13 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by SEAworld9 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:03 pm

as a pseudo-related concept to lifestyle creep, i've reached a point (at least where i'm at now in life) where there isn't too much else i want to buy above of my current level of purchases that would give me more satisfaction than what i get out of seeing the savings numbers on the screen go up.

JBTX
Posts: 1700
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by JBTX » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:18 pm

sandramjet wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 am
JBTX wrote: For years we are 2 income family and have done a good job of controlling the big expenses - our house is modest for our income and the most we've ever spent on a car is $24 and we tend to run them to the ground.
Wow... I wish I could figure out how to get a car for $24!
Mostly buy low mileage used. However did buy a 2013 Ford Taurus for $24k

neilpilot
Posts: 1085
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:46 pm
Location: Memphis area

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by neilpilot » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:27 pm

JBTX wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:18 pm
sandramjet wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 am
JBTX wrote: For years we are 2 income family and have done a good job of controlling the big expenses - our house is modest for our income and the most we've ever spent on a car is $24 and we tend to run them to the ground.
Wow... I wish I could figure out how to get a car for $24!
Mostly buy low mileage used. However did buy a 2013 Ford Taurus for $24k
but $24 is a lot less than $24k (maybe you missed sandramjet's sarcasm)

JBTX
Posts: 1700
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by JBTX » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:32 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:27 pm
JBTX wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:18 pm
sandramjet wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 am
JBTX wrote: For years we are 2 income family and have done a good job of controlling the big expenses - our house is modest for our income and the most we've ever spent on a car is $24 and we tend to run them to the ground.
Wow... I wish I could figure out how to get a car for $24!
Mostly buy low mileage used. However did buy a 2013 Ford Taurus for $24k
but $24 is a lot less than $24k (maybe you missed sandramjet's sarcasm)
:oops:

I bought them on special at Costco.

User avatar
Nicolas
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:41 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Nicolas » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:38 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:27 pm
JBTX wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:18 pm
sandramjet wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 am
JBTX wrote: For years we are 2 income family and have done a good job of controlling the big expenses - our house is modest for our income and the most we've ever spent on a car is $24 and we tend to run them to the ground.
Wow... I wish I could figure out how to get a car for $24!
Mostly buy low mileage used. However did buy a 2013 Ford Taurus for $24k
but $24 is a lot less than $24k (maybe you missed sandramjet's sarcasm)
I paid $150 for my second car, my first car was $300 :happy

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17582
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:45 pm

thangngo wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:10 pm

I don't have one myself yet, except for maybe traveling. But I'm aware of the following things, not in any particular order:
1. Buy a big, expensive house in an affluent area.
2. Having children
3. Pay for private school for #2.
4. Date an attractive but not responsible person

5. Marry #4.

6. Buy/Lease luxury car
Four wives! You have the most impressive lifestyle creep.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17582
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:47 pm

JBTX wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:32 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:27 pm
JBTX wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:18 pm
sandramjet wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 am
JBTX wrote: For years we are 2 income family and have done a good job of controlling the big expenses - our house is modest for our income and the most we've ever spent on a car is $24 and we tend to run them to the ground.
Wow... I wish I could figure out how to get a car for $24!
Mostly buy low mileage used. However did buy a 2013 Ford Taurus for $24k
but $24 is a lot less than $24k (maybe you missed sandramjet's sarcasm)
:oops:

I bought them on special at Costco.
Was it supersized like everything else in Costco?

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

JBTX
Posts: 1700
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by JBTX » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:56 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:47 pm
JBTX wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:32 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:27 pm
JBTX wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:18 pm
sandramjet wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 am


Wow... I wish I could figure out how to get a car for $24!
Mostly buy low mileage used. However did buy a 2013 Ford Taurus for $24k
but $24 is a lot less than $24k (maybe you missed sandramjet's sarcasm)
:oops:

I bought them on special at Costco.
Was it supersized like everything else in Costco?

Victoria
I had to buy them in a five pack. The neighbors were not pleased.

User avatar
Wildebeest
Posts: 1016
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:36 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Wildebeest » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:04 pm

And I thought I hated all creeps. Till I read this thread.

I think Life style creep is a misnomer. It should be called " Life style dream". It is great if you can afford it. If not, if not, it could be a night mare.

We just returned from Yellowstone National Park and stayed in a cabin. We hated it. At least the sheets were clean and we were warm and we had a private bathroom and the shower was blasting hot water. Where was the coffee maker? Where were the chairs to sit on? We never turn on the television in any hotel room so we thought it was plus the cabin did not come with one. No closets and no place to put your suit case and you have to go through a muddy patch to enter the front door so till it cleaned it you lived in pig sty. My DS ( it took me forever to figure out what DH or DW was) was willing to tip well for cleaning this place, but the cleaning lady ( what is wrong with this picture) did not show up tlll 4 PM, when we were back from a wet and snowy day.

I refuse to pay for Internet service if it is not free, I think it is as great a rip off similar to long distance dialing from a hotel room. Do they think I am stupid? At least at the visitor center the WiFi was free but so painfully slow.

Clearly I am stupid, because I spent $ 165 a night for what I thought was worth $ 70 ( hot water and not being cold is worth at least $ 50 a night and the base line is $ 20 to be able to lock your door).

Where do these numbers come from?

I have no idea. I do feel I have an internal compass. It just does not work too good.

After spending 5 nights in an National Park and not being to to fly out and having to stay at spend an extra night at the Holiday Express it appeared like the Four Seasons. We have been at the Four Seasons but to really appreciate it, you should stay at a National Park cabin first , then the Four Seasons is so worth it.

May be I should embrace my inner frugal "Mini Me". However my father pointed out 50 years ago that we should support the economy by spending. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman. If we are financially independent, let the money rain. It is good for the economy.

PS: I think it helps to really suffer in my younger years to really appreciate what I have now . I was so happy to find a $ 20 room 20 year ago till I found out it did not have heat and the window was broken and I went to sleep in my ski clothes, ski mask and gloves because I did not have the sense to move a hotel room with heat, just because I did not want to spend $ 50 for a motel room. I empathize for all the people who do not have the option for life style creep.

I used to bike for one hour to get to work in the rain, and now I sit happily in traffic for the one hour and if it rains I am so grateful I am in a car and not cold and wet to the bone.
The Golden Rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

theplayer11
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:55 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by theplayer11 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:29 pm

lots of first class flights mentioned. We flew first class on points a few years ago to London and economy on the way home. Sure FC was nice(although I thought the attendants came around too often offering stuff) but definitely not worth the price difference. Economy was fine. Maybe taller are wider people would see more of a benefit.

LarryAllen
Posts: 755
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:41 am
Location: State of Confusion

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by LarryAllen » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:41 pm

I think travel is where I see it the most with us. Premium economy has become the norm with first class on occasion. Hotels are suites fairly often now rather than standard non-view room. It used to be that staying at Courtyards and Residence Inn was the norm but now it's full service Marriott, Hyatt, etc... and occasional Four Seasons, Ritz, etc.... Room service more often too. Always get drinks the hotel pool without thinking about the ridiculous cost. Rent a convertible or other upgraded rental car. Once you get used to these things it's hard to back track at least for us.

poker27
Posts: 724
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:48 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by poker27 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:42 pm

iceport wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:17 am
poker27 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:23 am
Nearly all aspects of my life have crept up with my income level. I mean what is the point of making more $ if you are not going to enjoy it?
... which leads to a couple of thoughts.

First, "enjoying it" can take many forms. In my own case, by *not* giving in to lifestyle creep, I was able to retire roughly 5 years early. And trust me on this: I'm enjoying it!

Second, there's always a question whether the increased spending will actually increase happiness, which I presume it the overall intent. Research done over the years indicates that some types of spending are effective in this regard, and some are not — more subject to hedonic adaptation.
I have nice custom made shirts, and $20 Costco ones. I feel much better when I'm wearing a nice shirt :). I think at some point nice stuff becomes the norm, until you try cheap stuff again. Occasionally I will force myself to ride the bus home after a sports game, rather than spending $15 on a cab, just so I don't forget.

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 12921
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by White Coat Investor » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:51 pm

We're definitely creeping. But thankfully we're not only growing income at a faster rate but we started so low it's still okay.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

limeyx
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by limeyx » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:18 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:48 am
randomguy wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:34 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:26 am

I also bought more expensive Indoor and outdoor furnitures. In the past, I spent $300-$500 for outdoor furnitures, now it's more than $2000-$3000. Same with mattresses, I bought two very expensive mattresses, top of the line, because I figure sleep is important. I won't mention the price, because it's already shocked my brother who is an 8-figure guy.

I hate products like mattresses. There is pretty much no way to tell if you will sleep better in a 5k mattress or a 1k one. Sleep is important but in the store there is now way to know if you are going to end up with 10 mins more of quality sleep or a back ache from your expensive purchase. Heck I am not even sure if most of the tools to measure sleep quality outside of a lab are actually that useful. I end up having to figure out if I am sleeping better becasue I know I spent an extra 4k or if I am sleeping worse cause I am worried about wasting 4k because of good marketing.:)
It’s not ultra high end, but we noticed that we had great nights sleeping at the Kimpton Hotels. I’m sure that we will be paying a large percentage to marketing/royalties, but our next mattress will be a Kimpton.

IMO, more comfortable than our current Duxiana, although that might be due to the age of the Dux.
We bought a tuft&needle for under $900 online with 100 day free trial. Way way better than our $2K+ mattress. Suddenly no more back pain and much better sleep

It was a lot less deep though so we did have to buy a taller box spring for $80 or so but still far cheaper than the high end ones

User avatar
iceport
Posts: 3333
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:29 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by iceport » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:08 am

poker27 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:42 pm
iceport wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:17 am
poker27 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:23 am
Nearly all aspects of my life have crept up with my income level. I mean what is the point of making more $ if you are not going to enjoy it?
... which leads to a couple of thoughts.

First, "enjoying it" can take many forms. In my own case, by *not* giving in to lifestyle creep, I was able to retire roughly 5 years early. And trust me on this: I'm enjoying it!

Second, there's always a question whether the increased spending will actually increase happiness, which I presume it the overall intent. Research done over the years indicates that some types of spending are effective in this regard, and some are not — more subject to hedonic adaptation.
I have nice custom made shirts, and $20 Costco ones. I feel much better when I'm wearing a nice shirt :). I think at some point nice stuff becomes the norm, until you try cheap stuff again. Occasionally I will force myself to ride the bus home after a sports game, rather than spending $15 on a cab, just so I don't forget.
Sounds like your choice of shirts is more like buying an experience than just another trinket people typically get bored with.

It can be tough going backwards, but it is possible, especially when trade-offs are involved. I had a weakness for well-engineered cars, and owned two higher-end Saab turbos in a row (both purchased a few years old for roughly 1/3 of their price new). When the transmission finally went on the 9000CSE Turbo (a virtual rocket to me), I decided to trade way down to an older Subaru Impreza Outback Sport. Though the spartan accommodations were an initial shock, so was the delight in driving a care-free, nimble, reliable car. It handled like a go-cart (in the best of ways), and was a delight to drive, despite the anemic power. So even though the main objective was economy (to plow more funds into retirement savings, my new focus), it wasn't all bad. The simplification actually had an up-side. And annual maintenance costs went from an average of $2000/year (really) down to something like $300/year.
"Discipline matters more than allocation.” ─William Bernstein

User avatar
Meg77
Posts: 2129
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 1:09 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Meg77 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:29 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:07 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:02 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:39 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:35 am
Meg77 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:16 am
I have consciously embraced lifestyle creep. I don't see why it is considered such a negative thing. It's one thing to limit consumption while you are paying off consumer debt or trying to establish a basic financial stability. But after that, as my income (and net worth) has increased, so has my lifestyle. ...
+1

I considered lifestyle creep to be a goal long before I had ever heard the term.
If lifestyle creep were a good thing, it would be called not "lifestyle creep" but "lifestyle heap."

Victoria
"Eye of the beholder" or "A rose by any other name ..." or "All things in moderation" or "YMMV"

Not sure which, if any, are applicable
:happy
My current motto is memento mori. It helps with procrastination, but may also be useful with lifestyle creep.

Cheers,
Victoria
I think "memento mori," the historical equivalent of "YOLO," could encourage not only lifestyle creep but the abandonment of all delayed gratification. :wink: I prefer the term "lifestyle enhancement" to "lifestyle creep." It can refer to adding expenses but can also refer to downsizing and minimizing, depending on your stage of life and circumstances. The key distinction seems to be whether a new expenditure is purposeful - in which case it's really more akin to achieving a financial goal that has been properly saved for - or accidental and avoidable. The latter is certainly unfortunate and can prevent the furthering of financial goals in many cases.

Spending more and more each year is not necessarily the goal over a lifetime, but it certainly is the goal - if not so specifically stated - during the first 10-15 years of a working life for many people. If you start in a small crappy shared apartment with a 10 year old car and you pinch every penny living paycheck to paycheck, then I think increasing expenses and lifestyle is a very reasonable goal - and likely a prime motivation for working or building a career.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17582
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by VictoriaF » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:34 am

Meg77 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:29 am
VictoriaF wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:07 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:02 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:39 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:35 am


+1

I considered lifestyle creep to be a goal long before I had ever heard the term.
If lifestyle creep were a good thing, it would be called not "lifestyle creep" but "lifestyle heap."

Victoria
"Eye of the beholder" or "A rose by any other name ..." or "All things in moderation" or "YMMV"

Not sure which, if any, are applicable
:happy
My current motto is memento mori. It helps with procrastination, but may also be useful with lifestyle creep.

Cheers,
Victoria
I think "memento mori," the historical equivalent of "YOLO," could encourage not only lifestyle creep but the abandonment of all delayed gratification. :wink:
In the memento mori comment I was not arguing but offering another motto. YOLO is another good addition.

I am deeply disappointed that nobody has noticed my joke about legs in viewtopic.php?f=11&t=228330&p=3548415#p3547249 .

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

AnonJohn
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:45 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by AnonJohn » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:19 pm

I'd argue that memento mori isn't equivalent to YOLO. From wikipedia: "Memento mori is the medieval Latin Christian theory and practice of reflection on mortality, especially as a means of considering the vanity of earthly life and the transient nature of all earthly goods and pursuits"

It was about living a good life so you didn't go down below ... I know it from the New England Puritans putting it on their tombstones. Those folks weren't YOLO types! (Puritanism = the haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy; Puritans banned bear baiting not because it was cruel to the bears but because it gave enjoyment to Puritans, etc ... )

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17582
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by VictoriaF » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:34 pm

AnonJohn wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:19 pm
I'd argue that memento mori isn't equivalent to YOLO. From wikipedia: "Memento mori is the medieval Latin Christian theory and practice of reflection on mortality, especially as a means of considering the vanity of earthly life and the transient nature of all earthly goods and pursuits"

It was about living a good life so you didn't go down below ... I know it from the New England Puritans putting it on their tombstones. Those folks weren't YOLO types! (Puritanism = the haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy; Puritans banned bear baiting not because it was cruel to the bears but because it gave enjoyment to Puritans, etc ... )
They are not equivalent, just as the mottoes listed by Doom&Gloom are not equivalent. But they can be used for the same purpose: a reminder of one's death motivates one to live better. And "better" is subject to interpretation. To the Puritans, being "better" meant to remain grim, which memento mori facilitated. For the YOLO types it's a justification to remain YOLO types. For some, it's a reminder that there is a deadline (pun intended) to finish their major life projects. I use it in the last sense, but all are valid.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

UKFred
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:58 am
Location: UK

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by UKFred » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:37 pm

The English footballer George Best said it best(!): I spent half my money on women and wine. The rest I wasted.

bigred77
Posts: 1934
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:53 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by bigred77 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:57 pm

I've probably let lifestyle creep happen too quickly within my own family. As we transition down to a one income family next year it might be a little bit challenging to back down a bit but I'm hoping being new parents will take up enough of our time that we will naturally spend a little less :mrgreen:

- We upgraded from a 1 bedroom condo to a 3 bedroom house is an affluent neighborhood. Housing costs jumped 250%
- We quickly added lawn service and maid service. These are now mentally in the "need" and not "want" category as I would loathe to give that up.
- We eat out at nicer restaurants now. This I think I could go back on if I had too. We've also started going to restaurants less and less because I've been trying to eat better.
- Travel costs have really jumped. I never found the value in non-economy airfare, I'd rather suffer through the experience knowing it's temporary, but I definitely found value in staying in luxury hotels if the price difference over the budget friendly options wasn't exorbitant. Our traveling adventures will probably take a hiatus for a few years anyway while we start a family.

User avatar
DaftInvestor
Posts: 3220
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by DaftInvestor » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:18 pm

thangngo wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:10 pm

I don't have one myself yet, except for maybe traveling. But I'm aware of the following things, not in any particular order:
1. Buy a big, expensive house in an affluent area.
2. Having children
3. Pay for private school for #2.
4. Date an attractive but not responsible person
5. Marry #4.
6. Buy/Lease luxury car
I know someone that made a slight modification to the above:
i=0
1. Buy a big, expensive house in an affluent area.
2. Having children
3. Pay for private school for #2.
4. Date an attractive but not responsible person
5. Marry #4.
6. Buy/Lease luxury car
7. Divorce #4, leaving the big expensive house and 50% assets behind.
8. i = i+1; If i<4 start over at #1

Post Reply