Lifestyle Creep

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
randomguy
Posts: 5027
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by randomguy » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:34 am

DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:26 am

I also bought more expensive Indoor and outdoor furnitures. In the past, I spent $300-$500 for outdoor furnitures, now it's more than $2000-$3000. Same with mattresses, I bought two very expensive mattresses, top of the line, because I figure sleep is important. I won't mention the price, because it's already shocked my brother who is an 8-figure guy.

I hate products like mattresses. There is pretty much no way to tell if you will sleep better in a 5k mattress or a 1k one. Sleep is important but in the store there is now way to know if you are going to end up with 10 mins more of quality sleep or a back ache from your expensive purchase. Heck I am not even sure if most of the tools to measure sleep quality outside of a lab are actually that useful. I end up having to figure out if I am sleeping better becasue I know I spent an extra 4k or if I am sleeping worse cause I am worried about wasting 4k because of good marketing.:)

User avatar
CyclingDuo
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by CyclingDuo » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:35 am

4nursebee wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:00 pm
Thanks in advance for anything you share here!

I have renewed interest in learning about and increasing my own awareness of lifestyle creep. I am hoping others will share personal situations where they experienced or resisted this issue. What have you dealt with? What creep came into your life that you later regretted? What did you avoid and what benefit did you get?
I like this saying...

Same house!

Same spouse!

Same car!


:mrgreen:

http://www.businessinsider.com/lifestyl ... lth-2017-6

Another nice definition...

“A situation where people's lifestyle or standard of living improves as their discretionary income rises either through an increase in income or decrease in costs. As lifestyle creep occurs, and more money is spent on lifestyle, former luxuries are now considered necessities.”

https://www.bustle.com/p/what-is-lifest ... trap-73854

We, like many others, experienced it over the years. Dual careers, dual income, annual raises, and thoughts of "time is money" led to hiring a house cleaner, lawn service, insect/pest protection service, etc... for a few years until we wised up and realized what was going on. It was part of a series of lifestyle inflations that were entering our routine.

So we got rid of those services - and went back to the old fashioned cost saving way: doing it ourselves. Some of that lifestyle inflation had also led to eating out too often, paying for online services for this and for that, and overspending on luxuries we had incorrectly deemed as necessities. We saw it happening in our children as well. Just as it had taken a few years to create the lifestyle inflation, it took a few years as a family to remove it and develop a cognitive plan to keep it at bay.

By no means can we claim that we are now perfect by avoiding 100% of the creep, but we are as a couple (and family) well aware of it now which helps us make much better, informed decisions. Luckily, the one constant has remained the past 15 years no matter what - the savings rate was never compromised.

Creep we are trying to - or still need to - deal with:

• We're foodies, and love quality meats, booze, breads, produce for our home cooking.
• We're cyclists, and love quality bikes which has led to owning too many.
• We love to travel, and save in a special fun fund for that with automatic deposits out of every paycheck.
• We are trying to keep our charitable giving at a constant percentage, even though we'd love to give much more.
• Home maintenance/repairs/upgrades - always fighting the battle of DIY vs. Contractors

Those are the main creep issues we face.

In the meantime, to deal with it, it's...

Same house, same spouse, and same car!

Upped savings rate to 25% last year, and to 64% this year (that certainly helps avoid the creep!!!)

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 6965
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:48 am

randomguy wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:34 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:26 am

I also bought more expensive Indoor and outdoor furnitures. In the past, I spent $300-$500 for outdoor furnitures, now it's more than $2000-$3000. Same with mattresses, I bought two very expensive mattresses, top of the line, because I figure sleep is important. I won't mention the price, because it's already shocked my brother who is an 8-figure guy.

I hate products like mattresses. There is pretty much no way to tell if you will sleep better in a 5k mattress or a 1k one. Sleep is important but in the store there is now way to know if you are going to end up with 10 mins more of quality sleep or a back ache from your expensive purchase. Heck I am not even sure if most of the tools to measure sleep quality outside of a lab are actually that useful. I end up having to figure out if I am sleeping better becasue I know I spent an extra 4k or if I am sleeping worse cause I am worried about wasting 4k because of good marketing.:)
It’s not ultra high end, but we noticed that we had great nights sleeping at the Kimpton Hotels. I’m sure that we will be paying a large percentage to marketing/royalties, but our next mattress will be a Kimpton.

IMO, more comfortable than our current Duxiana, although that might be due to the age of the Dux.

DrGoogle2017
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:49 am

randomguy wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:34 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:26 am

I also bought more expensive Indoor and outdoor furnitures. In the past, I spent $300-$500 for outdoor furnitures, now it's more than $2000-$3000. Same with mattresses, I bought two very expensive mattresses, top of the line, because I figure sleep is important. I won't mention the price, because it's already shocked my brother who is an 8-figure guy.

I hate products like mattresses. There is pretty much no way to tell if you will sleep better in a 5k mattress or a 1k one. Sleep is important but in the store there is now way to know if you are going to end up with 10 mins more of quality sleep or a back ache from your expensive purchase. Heck I am not even sure if most of the tools to measure sleep quality outside of a lab are actually that useful. I end up having to figure out if I am sleeping better becasue I know I spent an extra 4k or if I am sleeping worse cause I am worried about wasting 4k because of good marketing.:)
We bought the first one and tried it for a few weeks, slept a lot better than my old bed. So we went out and bought another one, so it was not marketing.

NotWhoYouThink
Posts: 1410
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:19 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:04 am

There is nothing wrong with improving your lifestyle as your income and savings increase. Nothing at all.

This isn't the MMM board. This isn't the Dave Ramsey board. No one is going to throw anyone a parade for depriving themselves of affordable comforts.

We've always had a healthy savings rates, but we also had career success, on top of the good fortune to pick profitable career paths in growing industries. No reason for us to live like recent graduates.

If people are happy living the same way at 55 that they did at 25, that's okey dokey with me. But it's not a morally superior path to growing your lifestyle as your means grow. It's just one of many acceptable lifestyle choices.

Now spending down all your money and depending on your kids for support is not a good choice. But people doing that aren't posting on this board. Their kids are.

Nicolas
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:41 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Nicolas » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:32 am

randomguy wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:34 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:26 am

I also bought more expensive Indoor and outdoor furnitures. In the past, I spent $300-$500 for outdoor furnitures, now it's more than $2000-$3000. Same with mattresses, I bought two very expensive mattresses, top of the line, because I figure sleep is important. I won't mention the price, because it's already shocked my brother who is an 8-figure guy.

I hate products like mattresses. There is pretty much no way to tell if you will sleep better in a 5k mattress or a 1k one. Sleep is important but in the store there is now way to know if you are going to end up with 10 mins more of quality sleep or a back ache from your expensive purchase. Heck I am not even sure if most of the tools to measure sleep quality outside of a lab are actually that useful. I end up having to figure out if I am sleeping better becasue I know I spent an extra 4k or if I am sleeping worse cause I am worried about wasting 4k because of good marketing.:)
We bought a new Leesa king a month or so ago. What's nice is they let you return it if not satisfied within the first 100 days. But they don't allow returns for the first 30 days. They want you to give it a good try before you make up your mind. Lucky for us we liked it. The old king we donated.

User avatar
Kenkat
Posts: 3836
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:18 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Kenkat » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:33 am

I make sure I am on track to meet my savings and retirement goals and I then feel released to creep as I see fit. To me, it is all about the value you get out of the money you spend and we all make choices based on that. Someone may chose to travel while another may stay at home but drive a dream car, for example. Lifestyle creep is a natural end result of an increasingly affluent society. You just need to be sure to not overdo.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 1314
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by EnjoyIt » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:15 am

We have lifestyle creep but the creep is sort of mathematically planned. For example we did not buy a house till our net worth was $0 and we could afford a 15 year mortgage and 20% down (we had very large school loans). Next we saved very aggressively so that using a 4% real return we could easily retire at 55 without any further contributions. We achieved this when we were in our late 30s. We used the conservative 4% to edge on caution but so far have been presently surprised. Once we hit that financial milestone we have allowed strategic lifestyle creep. By continuing to still add to our investments, our wealth trajectory has exceeded that 55 year mark allowing us to spend more or work less or both.

Our creep:
1) We work less. We bought ourselves more free time in our lives with the plan of eventually working part time or 2 days a week. We still contribute to retirement accounts.
2) We hired a cleaning service for the house every 2 weeks.
3) We take more extensive and expensive vacations.
4) We spend a little bit more on experiences
5) If we continue like this, we may add a remodel to our home or move to a more expensive home.

By following this pathway, today we can sell our house, decrease our travel and retire today. Or we can keep working, slowly inflating our lifestyle, keeping financial independence just slightly out of reach but easily attainable.

randomguy
Posts: 5027
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by randomguy » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:26 am

DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:49 am
randomguy wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:34 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:26 am

I also bought more expensive Indoor and outdoor furnitures. In the past, I spent $300-$500 for outdoor furnitures, now it's more than $2000-$3000. Same with mattresses, I bought two very expensive mattresses, top of the line, because I figure sleep is important. I won't mention the price, because it's already shocked my brother who is an 8-figure guy.

I hate products like mattresses. There is pretty much no way to tell if you will sleep better in a 5k mattress or a 1k one. Sleep is important but in the store there is now way to know if you are going to end up with 10 mins more of quality sleep or a back ache from your expensive purchase. Heck I am not even sure if most of the tools to measure sleep quality outside of a lab are actually that useful. I end up having to figure out if I am sleeping better becasue I know I spent an extra 4k or if I am sleeping worse cause I am worried about wasting 4k because of good marketing.:)
We bought the first one and tried it for a few weeks, slept a lot better than my old bed. So we went out and bought another one, so it was not marketing.
Problem is you are comparing your new mattress to an old one. What I want to so is compare 2 new ones and see if there is a difference. And then of course you would need to guess how trhe mattress will deform over the next 10 years.

In theory you could get a couple of new one and return the one you don't like. I sort of feel like that is exploiting the return policy. Ymmv

dewey
Posts: 328
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:42 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by dewey » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:49 am

I'm 68, my wife is 65--both retired. Our house is a regular 3 bedroom 2 bath. We clean it ourselves. We do all the yard care and mowing (smaller lot of course). I clean the gutters. We wash our windows when our mostly younger neighbors hire it out. We cook most of our meals at home but when we go out we don't worry about the cost. We limit our travel to what our budget allows. She likes champagne but stays in the 'reasonable' price range. I enjoy wine and do the same. We fly economy. We fund numerous causes and charities. We each have a newer car (2016 and 2014) and like the modern safety features. We hand wash and polish them ourselves (well okay, I do). We buy clothing/shoes on sale or at Costco. We have cable, HBO (mostly for Bill Maher), and Netflix. We live within our means. And we have two commas of invested assets. We could easily spend much more.
“The only freedom that is of enduring importance is freedom of intelligence…”

DrGoogle2017
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:16 pm

randomguy wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:26 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:49 am
randomguy wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:34 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:26 am

I also bought more expensive Indoor and outdoor furnitures. In the past, I spent $300-$500 for outdoor furnitures, now it's more than $2000-$3000. Same with mattresses, I bought two very expensive mattresses, top of the line, because I figure sleep is important. I won't mention the price, because it's already shocked my brother who is an 8-figure guy.

I hate products like mattresses. There is pretty much no way to tell if you will sleep better in a 5k mattress or a 1k one. Sleep is important but in the store there is now way to know if you are going to end up with 10 mins more of quality sleep or a back ache from your expensive purchase. Heck I am not even sure if most of the tools to measure sleep quality outside of a lab are actually that useful. I end up having to figure out if I am sleeping better becasue I know I spent an extra 4k or if I am sleeping worse cause I am worried about wasting 4k because of good marketing.:)
We bought the first one and tried it for a few weeks, slept a lot better than my old bed. So we went out and bought another one, so it was not marketing.
Problem is you are comparing your new mattress to an old one. What I want to so is compare 2 new ones and see if there is a difference. And then of course you would need to guess how trhe mattress will deform over the next 10 years.

In theory you could get a couple of new one and return the one you don't like. I sort of feel like that is exploiting the return policy. Ymmv
We did try a few mattresses at the store so that's how we know it was much better. We got the second one because we knew one will outlast the other mattresses, it's like a backup. Like I said, while we were working, we didn't have to worry about it.

rgs92
Posts: 1467
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:00 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by rgs92 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:45 pm

Does premium-level long-term care insurance (many hundred dollars a month!) constitute lifestyle creep?
I look forward to a nice "luxury" private room when I'm old.
Not sure, but I opted for a recent expensive inflation-adjustment on our policies.

I didn't mean to re-route the discussion here off topic; I know about all the other threads on this.

But it was on my mind since it's a big part of my budget that I sure didn't think about when I was just starting out and thinking about the future and trying to be frugal. It is in the realm of values I think.

As far as other luxuries, I still view my lawn service and health club membership as things I couldn't live without.
(Those 2 things I didn't contemplate as "needing" when I was younger and never used. Funny how my attitude changed as the years passed.)

I used to run outdoors and go on the tractor by myself for years and took pride in these things, but laziness and avoiding exposing myself to the weather (hot and cold) became overwhelming impulses in early middle age. I definitely have become more indoors-y as the years go by.
I need my HVAC. Even sun bothers me a lot, LOL. (Not to mention bugs.)

I could put up with a lot more unpleasantness when I was in my teens and 20s.

I guess my point is that you don't know exactly how you will feel about things and your tolerance level as you get older. I think this a major cause of lifestyle creep. It's not just about luxury or greed.
Last edited by rgs92 on Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 7 times in total.

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17583
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by VictoriaF » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:50 pm

randomguy wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:34 am
I hate products like mattresses. There is pretty much no way to tell if you will sleep better in a 5k mattress or a 1k one. Sleep is important but in the store there is now way to know if you are going to end up with 10 mins more of quality sleep or a back ache from your expensive purchase. Heck I am not even sure if most of the tools to measure sleep quality outside of a lab are actually that useful. I end up having to figure out if I am sleeping better becasue I know I spent an extra 4k or if I am sleeping worse cause I am worried about wasting 4k because of good marketing.:)
I reserve the word "hate" for more serious issues than mattresses, but I share your distrust of the mattress industry. I know from experience that when I was walking el Camino de Santiago I slept well on a thin mattress laid out on the floor of an old church attic, with a dozen strangers on the left, right, in front and behind. And I don't sleep well on the best of mattresses if I don't spend some time outdoors, or if I stay too late at the computer.

Many people have horrible sleep hygiene using electronic devices or watching TV in bed, having coffee or too much alcohol with dinner, or just not sleeping enough. Poor sleep is a problem, but an expensive mattress is not the solution.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 6965
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:27 pm

VictoriaF wrote:I know from experience that when I was walking el Camino de Santiago I slept well on a thin mattress laid out on the floor of an old church attic, with a dozen strangers on the left, right, in front and behind.
Well, I’ve really enjoyed some so-so meals when I was ravenously hungry, tired, and loving my companions. But, that’s got little to do with culinary quality. My guess is that a good mattress on that floor would have been even better. :beer

DrGoogle2017
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:55 pm

I think someone here doesn't even need a mattress, how about sleep on bamboo sheet on the cement floor then we can talk.
Sleep problem? Easier said if you don't have back problem. Alcohol? I don't even drink it. Too many coffee? Only one cup in the morning and it's cafe au lait. Watch TV? No on this one.
Exercise? How about 2 days of badminton every week, two days of Pilate every week, one day of belly dancing, and an occasional walk or swim on the days I don't do the other exercise. Too much judgement from one post I think.

Erwin007
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:29 am
Location: Intermountain West

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Erwin007 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:41 pm

When I graduated fellowship and started in practice my income jumped almost 10x overnight. There were a few things that we did that could certainly be counted as lifestyle creep.

1. We purchased a home that was 3x as expensive as the one we had bought in residency. Still just over 1.10x my gross yearly salary instead of 3.5x my yearly salary, so maybe not lifestyle creep (and certainly not as much house as we could have been approved for).

2. We have an acre lot. I routinely work 60 and sometimes 70 hours Monday-Friday, and the last thing I want to do on my weekend is spend 2-3 (or more) hours mowing and edging the grass, so we pay a lawn service $45/week to do this for about 8 months out of the year. At times I feel guilty, that is until I watch my neighbor with a smaller yard spend a good part of his Saturday in the heat doing his yard.

3. My car that I had through med school, residency, and fellowship was starting to require expensive repairs. It had more than 160k miles on it and I ended up selling it for more than it would have cost to have it shipped across the country when we moved for my job. I ignored WCI recommendations and purchased a new SUV that cost about 10% of my annual salary (not a $5k Durango like WCI drove). Plan is to drive it into the ground. I drive a lot for my job, and sometimes in lousy conditions. Plus we drive to and from family a few times a year through mountain passes so when it is snowing it's nice to have a reliable, safe car. Not trying to justify the purchase, it is definitely lifestyle creep.

4. Vacations--we used to vacation on the cheap...driving to destinations that were close instead of flying to remote locations. Staying in budget hotels instead of more expensive ones, eating cheaply instead of at more expensive places when we travel, etc. Now we travel much more expensively (and more often). This also nicely corresponds to when our kids are older and can do more, and will hopefully remember more.

Some ways that we've avoided lifestyle creep include maintaining the same standard of living in other ways of our life--food budget is about the same, with the exception of buying more as our kids get older and eat more (looking at you 10 year old...). We still spend family time on weekends and weeknights by doing free or cheap things together (walks, camping, games together) instead of going out to eat and to the movies, or other expensive activities. Our kids still attend public schools, although we purposely purchased our home in an excellent school dirstict. We don't have any expensive club memberships, even though I love to golf, I've found enjoyment playing the local municipal courses which are closer to my home anyway.

About 25% of my gross income currently goes to investments or debt payoff, so I feel fine about our expanded lifestyle. In another 6 months when I've paid off the remainder of my student loans, I plan to just divert that money to growing my taxable account (already max out 403b, 457, 2 backdoor Roths, HSA, and up to state tax deduction yearly in 3 kids' 529s), so will be putting almost $10k per month towards retirement. I don't subscribe to the MMM lifestyle and have no interest in eating ramen, biking to work, or moving my family into a storage unit so we can retire to a similar lifestyle in 18 months instead of a luxurious one in 15-18 years. YMMV.

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 6965
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:23 pm

DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:55 pm
I think someone here doesn't even need a mattress, how about sleep on bamboo sheet on the cement floor then we can talk.
Sleep problem? Easier said if you don't have back problem. Alcohol? I don't even drink it. Too many coffee? Only one cup in the morning and it's cafe au lait. Watch TV? No on this one.
Exercise? How about 2 days of badminton every week, two days of Pilate every week, one day of belly dancing, and an occasional walk or swim on the days I don't do the other exercise. Too much judgement from one post I think.
Did you take the post about sleep hygiene to be directed at you? That wasn’t my impression. In any case, I don’t think mentioning the many ways that people fail at sleep hygiene is judgmental.

daveydoo
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:53 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by daveydoo » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:33 pm

Little creep: Same house. Similar or slightly better cars (generally Honda or Mazda, and the occasional off-lease luxury car). Slightly better groceries (Costco and Winco).

Significant creep: Better vacation destinations with better accommodations and more luxurious dining. Part of this is driven by the now-insane cost of international travel -- not gonna spend $6K for airfare for the family and kill myself to save $100 on the HomeAway rental. I realize my parents did this and it was always memorable. Every few years we took a great vacation and went to the best restaurants, etc. My crazy-frugal Dad (who would only shop at K-Mart and even then would only buy the loss-leaders) was a different person on vacation ("You don't come to a place like this and order the chicken breast"). But now I see it -- I have a mental budget and I know what the trip will cost and I consider the money already spent before we're even wheels-up.

Levett
Posts: 4177
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:10 pm
Location: upper Midwest

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Levett » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:00 pm

Is "lifestyle creep" when you reward yourself with stuff/things/experiences you can't afford?

If so, I have avoided "creep." :wink:

Lev

jucor
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:35 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by jucor » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:01 pm

We buy better, much more local groceries, from a local co-op and farmers who pay living wages, and whose farms we've visited. This has close to tripled our grocery bills, but we eat better, and feel better about our consumption.

When on the road, we no longer stay at flea-bag motels -- solidly mid-level for us! :wink:

We are more likely to purchase antique pottery, etc. or paintings/art by regional artists.

I'm not sure that these qualify as creep -- more of "ok, we can easily afford this" because we've resisted "upgrading" our paid-off house, are happy driving our now 9-year-old Subaru, and save 50% of our pre-tax earnings (no kids helps!).

Volkdancer
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Volkdancer » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:41 pm

I had an experience similar to what Victoria F described last night. After more than three weeks sleeping only on futons on tatami mats, I slept on a mattress in a large city accommodation and did not sleep as well as I had the preceding three plus weeks. The mattress was alternately too soft or too hard or shifted as I shifted. It was not the city per session as several of my stayovers were in large cities.

Karl V

DrGoogle2017
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:58 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:23 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:55 pm
I think someone here doesn't even need a mattress, how about sleep on bamboo sheet on the cement floor then we can talk.
Sleep problem? Easier said if you don't have back problem. Alcohol? I don't even drink it. Too many coffee? Only one cup in the morning and it's cafe au lait. Watch TV? No on this one.
Exercise? How about 2 days of badminton every week, two days of Pilate every week, one day of belly dancing, and an occasional walk or swim on the days I don't do the other exercise. Too much judgement from one post I think.
Did you take the post about sleep hygiene to be directed at you? That wasn’t my impression. In any case, I don’t think mentioning the many ways that people fail at sleep hygiene is judgmental.
Not you. Somebody mentioned the mattress was not the solution. To me it sounds judgemental. As if we are too stupid to throw money at an expensive mattress while the problem is our poor sleep hygiene. Maybe it's the holier than though attitude that I can't stand.

ERguy101
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:09 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by ERguy101 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:54 pm

I went through similar things to all of yall. Finished school, huge salary, bought anything I wanted. Recently divorced, and when "spousal support" ended I looked over all my expenses to see where I could shave them. I had 3-4 TV subscriptions (Hulu, Netflix, HBO NOW, etc.), a ridiculous cable TV package that I haven't turned on in multiple months, golf course membership and I haven't played in 6 months (paying like $230/month!), etc. I went through and canceled EVERYTHING (except for internet and the most basic cable package--and I will deduct my internet, I use it to lookup stuff for work!) I found almost $1,000/month in shit that I was able to close out.

However.

I screwed up about a year ago and bought my dream vehicle. Yes it was irresponsible. Yes it was stupid. And yes I bought extended warranty, etc. Right now I owe about $30,000 more on it than it's probably worth. I've been trying to think of the best way to get rid of it. I can afford it, I just don't want to, and I would rather put that money in the bank. I thought about even bringing it to the dealership and saying "HERE YOU GO!" but obviously that would murder my credit. I also thought when I get my tax refund this year, it may be enough to kinda "even things out", and then I could trade it in, break even, and get something reasonable.

10YearPlan
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:58 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by 10YearPlan » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:59 pm

cantos wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:08 pm
First good job: leased a BMW. Ate out for lunch and dinner regularly. Hired a regular cleaner.
First big raise: Bought $1,000 suits. $500 shoes. Didn't think twice about getting gadgets/etc.
Got kids: Moved from small 2BR home to 4BR home in good school district neighbourhood.
Job kept paying well: kept on buying nice things and going out regularly. Didn't think twice about $200 bills for dinner. Took up wine collecting.

Read Millionaire Next door. Changed jobs. Bought $300 suits and $100 shoes. Less eating out. Vegan for most meals. Ditched BMW. Bought Ford. Stopped collecting wines. Drank the wines. Bought occasional craft beers instead. Saved. Invested. Built wealth.
I love this, thanks for sharing.

10YearPlan
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:58 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by 10YearPlan » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:05 pm

We've had some very intentional lifestyle creep and some not as much.

Intentional-
Travel 2-3x a year with the kids during "peak" season (ie when school is out)
Bi-weekly housecleaning service
Weekly lawn service
House in a nice/affluent suburb

Not as Intentional-
Kids sports/activities/birthday parties. We don't do anything too elaborate by our neighborhood standards but it's a huge leap from how I grew up. Sometimes I still feel conflicted about this.
Eating out at restaurants too often. We are working on cutting back a little bit here. It's hard because we're foodies and we work a ton of hours. But still.

ThankYouJack
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by ThankYouJack » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:58 pm

Why is life style creep is such a bad thing? Isn't that what's money is for -- the more you accumulate the better life you can live?

We could afford a much bigger house and fancier things but we're spending more on quality food, travel, hobbies, giving, saving time, on "nicer" cars. I don't regret any of it.

User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 10481
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by HomerJ » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:07 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:50 pm
I know from experience that when I was walking el Camino de Santiago I slept well on a thin mattress laid out on the floor of an old church attic, with a dozen strangers on the left, right, in front and behind.
If I had been there, I probably would have kept you up all night with my snoring.

I will never be interested in sleeping next to a dozen strangers, or maybe more accurately, a dozen strangers would never be happy sleeping next to me :)
Last edited by HomerJ on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 10481
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by HomerJ » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:12 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:58 pm
Why is life style creep is such a bad thing? Isn't that what's money is for -- the more you accumulate the better life you can live?
It's a balancing act. The more you spend, you more have to save to retire. Each dollar spent or saved counts double.

If you live happily on $80k, you need $1 million to maintain that lifestyle.

If you let your lifestyle creep up to $120k a year, not only are you saving less each year, but now you need $3 million instead of $2 million.

So lifestyle creep counts twice against you. You have to be careful.

But I agree that lifestyle creep itself isn't a bad thing. You just have to pay attention to the numbers.

lostdog
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by lostdog » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:51 am

A luxury car. An Infiniti G37x coupe. It was a mistake and I learned my lesson. Never again. I sold it and bought a used 2011 Toyota Corolla.
Financial Independence is the best revenge. | "Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, simplify." -Thoreau

flyingaway
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:19 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by flyingaway » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:05 am

We reached financial independence last November, so we decided to lose our spending a little bit. Buy better beef cuts, better beers, better airplane seats, etc. Then, based on our new spending, we become financially dependent (on our jobs) again.

lostdog
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by lostdog » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:06 am

hulburt1 wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:46 am
Well at 64 this worked for me-
Own one house 37 years
Had the best job for me-worked for fed-ex and coached cross country and track 23 years still going at a local Hs
Married once 38 years

I tell everyone married ugly they will never leave you. Most say I see your wife followed your advice haha
It really saved me money I'm at 2.2m. no debt for the last 20 years.

+1. Haha. :sharebeer
Financial Independence is the best revenge. | "Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, simplify." -Thoreau

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17583
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:15 am

HomerJ wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:07 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:50 pm
I know from experience that when I was walking el Camino de Santiago I slept well on a thin mattress laid out on the floor of an old church attic, with a dozen strangers on the left, right, in front and behind.
If I had been there, I probably would have kept you up all night with my snoring.

I will never be interested in sleeping next to a dozen strangers, or maybe more accurately, a dozen strangers would never be happy sleeping next to me :)
Snoring is frequently discussed in the Camino Forum, but in practice it's a non-issue. After you walk all day with a backpack and then enjoy a community dinner in a good company with some red wine, you don't even notice how you fall asleep. I was carrying with me ear plugs and an eye mask. I was using the ear plugs rarely, usually I just forgot that I had them and still slept well. The eye mask was more useful, because some people wake up very early, use their headlamps, and throw random beams of light in all directions.

Sometimes we had several people heavily snoring in the room and it was entertaining to compare their respective tunes.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

sandramjet
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:28 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by sandramjet » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 am

JBTX wrote: For years we are 2 income family and have done a good job of controlling the big expenses - our house is modest for our income and the most we've ever spent on a car is $24 and we tend to run them to the ground.
Wow... I wish I could figure out how to get a car for $24!

User avatar
DaftInvestor
Posts: 3220
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by DaftInvestor » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:43 am

Avoided: Buying bigger house (even though we could have afforded it)
Accepted/Enjoy: adding amenities to current house (inground pool, screened-in porch); dining out more often; better/nicer vacations.

p14175
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:33 am
Location: Now in southeast Arizona

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by p14175 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:49 am

We recently sold our house in the city (lived in that house for 33 years) and moved to a smaller house in a rural area. All of our previous moves were DIY. This time we splurged and hired a mover to move the heavy stuff. What a treat!

User avatar
1210sda
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:31 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by 1210sda » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:00 am

HomerJ wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:12 pm
If you live happily on $80k, you need $1 million to maintain that lifestyle.

If you let your lifestyle creep up to $120k a year, not only are you saving less each year, but now you need $3 million instead of $2 million.

So lifestyle creep counts twice against you. You have to be careful.
Hi Homer. Not sure I follow what you're saying. To me it seems that going from $80k to $120k spending a year needs an additional $1 million, not $2 million.(with $40k in Soc Sec)

It'll just take you longer because you need an additional million and because you are saving $40k less per year due to your spending.

At least in real dollars.

1210
Last edited by 1210sda on Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17583
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:00 am

sandramjet wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 am
JBTX wrote: For years we are 2 income family and have done a good job of controlling the big expenses - our house is modest for our income and the most we've ever spent on a car is $24 and we tend to run them to the ground.
Wow... I wish I could figure out how to get a car for $24!
It was a typo; he meant $24 million.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

mak1277
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by mak1277 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:21 am

NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:04 am

If people are happy living the same way at 55 that they did at 25, that's okey dokey with me. But it's not a morally superior path to growing your lifestyle as your means grow. It's just one of many acceptable lifestyle choices.
This is the internet...the entire point is to feel morally superior to anyone who does things even a little differently than you do :)

poker27
Posts: 724
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:48 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by poker27 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:23 am

Nearly all aspects of my life have crept up with my income level. I mean what is the point of making more $ if you are not going to enjoy it?

TareNeko
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:27 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by TareNeko » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:33 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:00 am
sandramjet wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 am
JBTX wrote: For years we are 2 income family and have done a good job of controlling the big expenses - our house is modest for our income and the most we've ever spent on a car is $24 and we tend to run them to the ground.
Wow... I wish I could figure out how to get a car for $24!
It was a typo; he meant $24 million.

Victoria
Which, of course, means if he bought a used corolla and invested the difference he would have $24 million ($16k invested for 150 years with cagr of 5%). So in effect, true cost of the car is $24 million.

wrongfunds
Posts: 924
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by wrongfunds » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:59 am

If you live happily on $80k, you need $1 million to maintain that lifestyle.

If you let your lifestyle creep up to $120k a year, not only are you saving less each year, but now you need $3 million instead of $2 million.
For a second, I was very happy with the thought of able to have $80K lifestyle with $1M but unfortunately, the next statement made it clear that it was just a typo!

Snowjob
Posts: 1318
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:53 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Snowjob » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:14 am

wrongfunds wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:59 am
If you live happily on $80k, you need $1 million to maintain that lifestyle.

If you let your lifestyle creep up to $120k a year, not only are you saving less each year, but now you need $3 million instead of $2 million.
For a second, I was very happy with the thought of able to have $80K lifestyle with $1M but unfortunately, the next statement made it clear that it was just a typo!
yeah you and me both ha-ha, I was about to go celebrate my new found wealth

User avatar
Meg77
Posts: 2129
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 1:09 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Meg77 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:16 am

I have consciously embraced lifestyle creep. I don't see why it is considered such a negative thing. It's one thing to limit consumption while you are paying off consumer debt or trying to establish a basic financial stability. But after that, as my income (and net worth) has increased, so has my lifestyle. I'm not in a hurry to retire, and upon realizing that I have loosened the purse strings. Better furniture, nicer hotels when we travel, higher end clothing - all completely unnecessary but enjoyable lifestyle creeps.

I have cut back at times when certain "treats" become routine and no longer feel special. It's not so much about the financial aspect though as psychological or even health consciousness. That daily glass of wine or latte, the monthly pedicure, the weekly lunch outing that becomes closer to daily. Every now and then I ban certain indulgences for a month or two so that I can appreciate them more.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin

User avatar
iceport
Posts: 3333
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:29 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by iceport » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:17 am

poker27 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:23 am
Nearly all aspects of my life have crept up with my income level. I mean what is the point of making more $ if you are not going to enjoy it?
... which leads to a couple of thoughts.

First, "enjoying it" can take many forms. In my own case, by *not* giving in to lifestyle creep, I was able to retire roughly 5 years early. And trust me on this: I'm enjoying it!

Second, there's always a question whether the increased spending will actually increase happiness, which I presume it the overall intent. Research done over the years indicates that some types of spending are effective in this regard, and some are not — more subject to hedonic adaptation.
"Discipline matters more than allocation.” ─William Bernstein

neilpilot
Posts: 1085
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:46 pm
Location: Memphis area

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by neilpilot » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:25 am

Daryl wrote:
Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:39 am
I'm transitioning from single engine planes (Cessna 152/172) to gliders. Not having an engine saves a lot of gas money! First solo was yesterday.
Back when I flew gliders, they actually cost more per flight hour than my club's 172. Gliders really didn't save too much on gas money, since the tow plane consumes a high flow rate in climb.

Now that I only use a plane for travel, gas isn't really too much higher than a luxury car. My Mooney averages about 18MPG, but for most flights the air mileage is significantly less than via road. For example, my next flight is 420 miles, and the drive is 480, so the 18MPG becomes 21 road-MPG.

The best thing is, my travel time will be about 10 hours less RT than the drive!

Doom&Gloom
Posts: 1524
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by Doom&Gloom » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:35 am

Meg77 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:16 am
I have consciously embraced lifestyle creep. I don't see why it is considered such a negative thing. It's one thing to limit consumption while you are paying off consumer debt or trying to establish a basic financial stability. But after that, as my income (and net worth) has increased, so has my lifestyle. ...
+1

I considered lifestyle creep to be a goal long before I had ever heard the term.

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17583
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:39 am

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:35 am
Meg77 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:16 am
I have consciously embraced lifestyle creep. I don't see why it is considered such a negative thing. It's one thing to limit consumption while you are paying off consumer debt or trying to establish a basic financial stability. But after that, as my income (and net worth) has increased, so has my lifestyle. ...
+1

I considered lifestyle creep to be a goal long before I had ever heard the term.
If lifestyle creep were a good thing, it would be called not "lifestyle creep" but "lifestyle heap."

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

rgs92
Posts: 1467
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:00 pm

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by rgs92 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:46 am

DaftInvestor wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:43 am
Avoided: Buying bigger house (even though we could have afforded it)
Accepted/Enjoy: adding amenities to current house (inground pool, screened-in porch); dining out more often; better/nicer vacations.
Me:
Avoiding: dining out too much; any vacations.
Accepting/Enjoyment: More spacious house in better neighborhood since we will spend a lot more time at home (together OMG!) in retirement.

Just my preference here; no right or wrong approach.

smitcat
Posts: 790
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by smitcat » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:48 am

wrongfunds wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:59 am
If you live happily on $80k, you need $1 million to maintain that lifestyle.

If you let your lifestyle creep up to $120k a year, not only are you saving less each year, but now you need $3 million instead of $2 million.
For a second, I was very happy with the thought of able to have $80K lifestyle with $1M but unfortunately, the next statement made it clear that it was just a typo!
Of course you can have an $80K lifestyle on $1 Million dollars - its just about how long the lifestyle will last.

smitcat
Posts: 790
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Lifestyle Creep

Post by smitcat » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:49 am

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:35 am
Meg77 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:16 am
I have consciously embraced lifestyle creep. I don't see why it is considered such a negative thing. It's one thing to limit consumption while you are paying off consumer debt or trying to establish a basic financial stability. But after that, as my income (and net worth) has increased, so has my lifestyle. ...
+1

I considered lifestyle creep to be a goal long before I had ever heard the term.
+2 .... "lifestyle creep" has allowed us many fortunate experiences.

Post Reply