Negotiating for a new car purchase

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djpeteski
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by djpeteski » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:06 am

verbose wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:14 pm
Update on this situation: I’ve had a lot of pointless communications with dealers, mostly them trying to find out “when can I come in.” None of them have the car I want in stock. They all say they can find it, but then they fail to follow up on that and fall back to asking me to show up in person.
From what I am hearing, this car is not available. You may try to find this through a national search on your own. Make a list of honda dealerships and check their inventory or call em like crazy. If you are willing to do used, you may want to check Ebay.

The flooding from the recent hurricanes can be reducing inventory. For example, on Carvana there is only one 2016 Civic for sale, other sales are pending. Additionally the economy is currently going strong, people are buying things including cars. Locally, entry level jobs are having trouble finding people.

Car dealers have a model: get people in the door, get them on a test drive, and then sell them. They are seeking to incite an emotional reaction out of you. It does not matter if you can resist these reactions, most people can't. Their most profitable customers can't.

Our recent car buying experience unearthed a vast amount of dishonesty and incompetence that is systemic in the industry.

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dm200
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by dm200 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:16 am

djpeteski wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:06 am
verbose wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:14 pm
Update on this situation: I’ve had a lot of pointless communications with dealers, mostly them trying to find out “when can I come in.” None of them have the car I want in stock. They all say they can find it, but then they fail to follow up on that and fall back to asking me to show up in person.
From what I am hearing, this car is not available. You may try to find this through a national search on your own. Make a list of honda dealerships and check their inventory or call em like crazy. If you are willing to do used, you may want to check Ebay.
The flooding from the recent hurricanes can be reducing inventory. For example, on Carvana there is only one 2016 Civic for sale, other sales are pending. Additionally the economy is currently going strong, people are buying things including cars. Locally, entry level jobs are having trouble finding people.
Car dealers have a model: get people in the door, get them on a test drive, and then sell them. They are seeking to incite an emotional reaction out of you. It does not matter if you can resist these reactions, most people can't. Their most profitable customers can't.
Our recent car buying experience unearthed a vast amount of dishonesty and incompetence that is systemic in the industry.
While, in my opinion, it is usually not a good idea to fall for "come in" pitch from dealers, this (hard to find model) might be an exception. The dealer may need to know you are serious about the purchase as an incentive for them to find such a model at a distant dealership.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by Easy Rhino » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:16 pm

When I was shopping last year, I generally found the internet sales departments easy to work with.

One, which was ironically closest to my house, called me on the phone and said they couldn't give me a quote on a specific model unless I came in. i already had quotes from 5 other dealers. I told her "I'm not saying this to be rude to you, but you're literally wasting my time with this phone call". I didn't bother with them any more.

And another dealer had a fairly hard to find car, and I needed a test drive, so after the test drive I, my wife, and our daughter got the full business salesman, "sales manager" four-square* treatment trying to get a price quote. It was also a waste of my time, as it took 30 minute and their offer wasn't close to competitive yet. Ended up getting a car from LA that the dealer shipped to me, because they had the model and wanted to close deals faster.

(most internet sales folks that I liked said they're judged on volume and satisfaction, not on margin)

* https://consumerist.com/2010/03/12/beat ... ip-ripoff/

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verbose
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by verbose » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:39 pm

OP update:

Apparently this car does not exist. While Honda could build the configuration I’m looking for, and one can build it on their website, they actually don’t make it. No one will say this, but it’s my conclusion. I can only get this car if I add a satellite navigation system that I don’t want and that puts the car out of my price range.

Meanwhile, another dealer got me to come in by calling me and telling me that they had the car I was looking for. Short answer: they lied.

They said the car was already on its way from Honda. When I came in, they tried to sell a different car on their lot that I didn’t want. I considered it, then told them I wanted the car that was on its way. We arrived at a deal, I deposited $1000 and they said they would call me. The did call me, several times, saying it would be in soon. Today was about the last date it was supposed to be here. I called today and the the salesman said the car “turned out to be a sedan” (I’m looking for a hatchback) before handing the phone over to the sales manager. He had a different story: the date he gave me was the date of manufacture, not the date the car was expected on the lot. It was “his mistake” and the car will be there in a “couple of weeks.” I don’t believe him and I told him so. He didn’t like that but seemed used to it. Go figure.

Now I have to get my deposit back from them. They still claim that there is a car but I can’t believe a single word they say. I told them I’m coming in tonight to get the deposit back and hung up on them. They called back and left a message with convoluted details that amounted to “no”. I don’t know what to do.

I did have a long timeframe to buy a car but that’s no longer true.

Since Honda doesn’t actually make this car, I think I will be looking at different makes.

It’s been hours since the phone call and I’m still angry, still shaking, heart racing... I don’t want to let them do this to me.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by RareBog » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:02 pm

OP, very sorry this is happening to you. Don’t worry, they are relying on you being uninformed, they will give you your deposit back. Just keep repeating I want my deposit back don’t listen to any other statements they make. Going forward, try another dealer or switch to completely another car brand maybe a Toyota?

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by denovo » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:33 pm

verbose wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:39 pm
OP update:



Meanwhile, another dealer got me to come in by calling me and telling me that they had the car I was looking for. Short answer: they lied.



It’s been hours since the phone call and I’m still angry, still shaking, heart racing... I don’t want to let them do this to me.

viewtopic.php?t=124638

Did you read this thread, as earlier suggested. Honda dealers, like all dealers , post their inventory online and you would have not put yourself through this agony. Never trust car dealers.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

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buccimane
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by buccimane » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:09 am

verbose wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:39 pm
if I add a satellite navigation system that I don’t want
Anyone looking for a car for over 2 months, and now with a deadline, has to be a little more flexible IMO to get a deal done. If a navigation system option is a deal breaker when looking at newer cars, it might be better to look at slightly older models that meet your exact requirements. Just seems like the car you want is too close to your top $ number.

Every car I have ever bought I've had a tight budget for, thus resulting in features missing (aux cord plug-in) /added ones I could live without (moon roof).
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

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djpeteski
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by djpeteski » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:18 am

verbose wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:39 pm
I did have a long timeframe to buy a car but that’s no longer true.

Since Honda doesn’t actually make this car, I think I will be looking at different makes.

It’s been hours since the phone call and I’m still angry, still shaking, heart racing... I don’t want to let them do this to me.
So the key here is that is what they want: emotional reaction. I would avoid going to the dealership in that condition, you might walk out with a car that you did not want and pay way more than you would have otherwise.

Keep in mind that it is $1,000. While it is spiritually damaging to be lied to and treated dishonestly in the end the money is meaningless to a person in your financial position (making some assumptions here, but i feel they are safe). Even more meaningless is the amount that $1000 could earn between now and when you get it back. You will get it back, it will just take time and the usual hassle you get from such people.

Sorry for your trouble, but is it no wonder that the auto industry is in such horrible straits.

A company, such as Tesla, could revolutionize the industry by simply breaking this crappy model that we have at buying new cars. I feel that Carvana could be doing this for used cars. However, as long as people wander into a dealership and purchase a car based totally on emotion the model will exist in some form.

stats99
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by stats99 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:25 am

Sometimes you need to make the best deal on what they want to sell. I was all set on a Forester "Touring" but no one wanted to play ball. Everyone was playing ball on the "Premiere" and once I internally satisfied myself that I could get by without a few minor luxuries, but get the safety system that I valued, and save $4,000 I made a deal in about 30 minutes via internet and phone.

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verbose
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by verbose » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:39 am

I did not go there last night. I shifted gears and thought about other things and enjoyed an evening at home. When I am fully calm, I will reassess the situation. And you are right about the $1000.
djpeteski wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:18 am
verbose wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:39 pm
I did have a long timeframe to buy a car but that’s no longer true.

Since Honda doesn’t actually make this car, I think I will be looking at different makes.

It’s been hours since the phone call and I’m still angry, still shaking, heart racing... I don’t want to let them do this to me.
So the key here is that is what they want: emotional reaction. I would avoid going to the dealership in that condition, you might walk out with a car that you did not want and pay way more than you would have otherwise.

Keep in mind that it is $1,000. While it is spiritually damaging to be lied to and treated dishonestly in the end the money is meaningless to a person in your financial position (making some assumptions here, but i feel they are safe). Even more meaningless is the amount that $1000 could earn between now and when you get it back. You will get it back, it will just take time and the usual hassle you get from such people.

Sorry for your trouble, but is it no wonder that the auto industry is in such horrible straits.

A company, such as Tesla, could revolutionize the industry by simply breaking this crappy model that we have at buying new cars. I feel that Carvana could be doing this for used cars. However, as long as people wander into a dealership and purchase a car based totally on emotion the model will exist in some form.

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verbose
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by verbose » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:52 pm

So I bought a car, similar but not quite what I wanted, from a Honda dealer's inventory on Friday. This was a dealer I hadn't dealt with before. Everything was so reasonable. They did explain why I couldn't find the car I wanted--they just weren't made that way for inventory but I could order one at MSRP and it would take three months to arrive. See--that's the answer I've been looking for that no one else would even tell me. They did try to sell some extra stuff, but I just said no. They didn't play any stupid games. I didn't bargain hard on the price, but given that the Civic Hatchback is apparently a hot item, I had little room to push. Honestly, I wasn't looking for the best deal but the car that I wanted and a hassle-free experience.

I still have to get the deposit back from the other dealership. I called and they said they would return it but in a convoluted fashion. They don't know I bought a car. I am going in there tomorrow, driving my old car (kept it for my teen), and I'm just going to ask for the deposit back, repeatedly and calmly.

maroon
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by maroon » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:12 pm

My most recent new car buying experience, also at a Honda dealership, involved an internet manager who refused to honor the deal we'd negotiated via email and outright lied to me. I empathize with the OP.

tibbitts
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by tibbitts » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:23 pm

This is one of those cases were we have a lot of posts reporting success with this and that, and a lot of people convinced they know how to get a good deal because they've had success, but it's also one of those cases where experience is almost completely worthless. Kind of like being an active fund manager, I guess.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by daveydoo » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:28 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:23 pm
...and a lot of people convinced they know how to get a good deal because they've had success, but it's also one of those cases where experience is almost completely worthless...
I think experience helps you figure out when you're not getting the good deal vs. there is no good deal to be had. This can be really helpful, and you can then pay the price, wait for a different season (or year), or move on to a competitor's vehicle. We've gotten some incredible deals and, other times, paid a premium. If it's a high-demand vehicle with few on the lots and no dealer incentives, you're not gonna get a great deal. Each car is different. Sometimes even the season or market make a big difference.
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by kazper » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:29 pm

I whole heatedly agree on not giving out your phone number.

We were looking for a used car, but decided to stop in and check out some of the new offers. Big mistake. We visited 3 dealers, the first had the lowest total price. When we went to the 3rd place and told them about the lower offer, they insisted either we were mistaken (not so) or the other dealer made a calculation error. We walked out without buying from either place (bought used), but I had a message on my phone within an hour of us leaving. Plus another 3 the day after, 1 the next day, and for several days to follow. They weren't willing to work with us while we were there, but were more than willing to bug me after I left.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by verbose » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:20 pm

The dishonest dealership said they are going to mail me a check for my deposit today. The person who told me that was looking to the side as he said it. So I don’t know what’s true but I acted like I believed it. I’ll give it a week.

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dm200
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by dm200 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:30 pm

verbose wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:20 pm
The dishonest dealership said they are going to mail me a check for my deposit today. The person who told me that was looking to the side as he said it. So I don’t know what’s true but I acted like I believed it. I’ll give it a week.
I would never give a dealership a deposit (especially $1,000) unless I was 100% sure I had a final deal for the exact car and at the exact price I was happy with.

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verbose
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by verbose » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:54 pm

dm200 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:30 pm
verbose wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:20 pm
The dishonest dealership said they are going to mail me a check for my deposit today. The person who told me that was looking to the side as he said it. So I don’t know what’s true but I acted like I believed it. I’ll give it a week.
I would never give a dealership a deposit (especially $1,000) unless I was 100% sure I had a final deal for the exact car and at the exact price I was happy with.
Hindsight is 20/20. And I was certain—at the time. I wasn’t familiar with the bait and switch game being played.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by need403bhelp » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:30 pm

:sharebeer
verbose wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:54 pm
dm200 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:30 pm
verbose wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:20 pm
The dishonest dealership said they are going to mail me a check for my deposit today. The person who told me that was looking to the side as he said it. So I don’t know what’s true but I acted like I believed it. I’ll give it a week.
I would never give a dealership a deposit (especially $1,000) unless I was 100% sure I had a final deal for the exact car and at the exact price I was happy with.
Hindsight is 20/20. And I was certain—at the time. I wasn’t familiar with the bait and switch game being played.
Maybe I am misunderstanding but I thought you could ask your bank to stop payment on a check. It costs money but less than $1000. Or is already too late to do that with respect to the deposit?

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dm200
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by dm200 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:42 pm

Hindsight is 20/20. And I was certain—at the time. I wasn’t familiar with the bait and switch game being played.
Car dealers (in my opinion and experience) and car sales folks really want to get you into the dealership - in person - so they can work you. They are "professionals" in what they do and how they do it. Almost all of us are amateurs. The answer is to not get sucked into their "game".

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by KyleAAA » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:47 pm

In general, dealerships won't reply seriously to people who make requests over email because most such people are not serious and are a waste of time. You can combat this by looking at their website and referencing a specific vehicle currently on their lot (give them the VIN) and asking for an OTD price. Then they'll know your serious. The shotgun approach of emailing multiple dealerships about general car models might pay off if it's a slow month, but most dealerships won't bother (that's why you keep getting "when can you come in?" and nothing else). You'll tend to get the best deal in person unless you're a horrible negotiator and don't do any research. The email game used to work reasonably well (as recently as 3 or 4 years ago) but not so much these days.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by dm200 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:55 pm

KyleAAA wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:47 pm
In general, dealerships won't reply seriously to people who make requests over email because most such people are not serious and are a waste of time. You can combat this by looking at their website and referencing a specific vehicle currently on their lot (give them the VIN) and asking for an OTD price. Then they'll know your serious. The shotgun approach of emailing multiple dealerships about general car models might pay off if it's a slow month, but most dealerships won't bother (that's why you keep getting "when can you come in?" and nothing else). You'll tend to get the best deal in person unless you're a horrible negotiator and don't do any research. The email game used to work reasonably well (as recently as 3 or 4 years ago) but not so much these days.
For us, at least, the big part of saving money on a new vehicle purchase was not buying and paying for model upgrades, features and add-ons we did not need, want or pay for. By using United Buying service (www.ubs4cars.com) - we could use the book to (on our own time and not at dealer) select the options and model we want - select the exact car we wanted to buy. Then, using UBS, get the fixed price that dealer agree to.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by jabberwockOG » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:10 pm

KyleAAA wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:47 pm
In general, dealerships won't reply seriously to people who make requests over email because most such people are not serious and are a waste of time. You'll tend to get the best deal in person unless you're a horrible negotiator and don't do any research. The email game used to work reasonably well (as recently as 3 or 4 years ago) but not so much these days.

100% disagree. Car dealers do their best to dissuade people from attempting to buy a car and negotiate via email and phone. They do this because they know they can only wear you down and beat you at the negotiating game if they have you physically on premises. Cars can be purchased via email and phone but it takes some diligence and persistence since almost every dealer initially resists a consumer's efforts to buy a car remotely and most consumers then just go in to the dealer.

And you will absolutely NEVER get the best deal when you are physically on premises at a dealer. Being physically on premises and sitting around waiting and wasting your time while they play their mind games on you marks you as a naive sucker and the dealer knows it.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by KyleAAA » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:25 pm

jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:10 pm
KyleAAA wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:47 pm
In general, dealerships won't reply seriously to people who make requests over email because most such people are not serious and are a waste of time. You'll tend to get the best deal in person unless you're a horrible negotiator and don't do any research. The email game used to work reasonably well (as recently as 3 or 4 years ago) but not so much these days.

100% disagree. Car dealers do their best to dissuade people from attempting to buy a car and negotiate via email and phone. They do this because they know they can only wear you down and beat you at the negotiating game if they have you physically on premises. Cars can be purchased via email and phone but it takes some diligence and persistence since almost every dealer initially resists a consumer's efforts to buy a car remotely and most consumers then just go in to the dealer.

And you will absolutely NEVER get the best deal when you are physically on premises at a dealer. Being physically on premises and sitting around waiting and wasting your time while they play their mind games on you marks you as a naive sucker and the dealer knows it.
No, they do this because if they spent time following up with the flood of email window shoppers they'd never have time to do anything else. It's just a smart business decision to focus limited attention on the best prospects. Go ask 1000 car salespeople anonymously (with no incentive to try to mislead you because there is no prospect of a sale) and they will mostly tell you the same thing. There are places on the internet you can do this. There's no conspiracy here.
jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:10 pm
Cars can be purchased via email and phone but it takes some diligence and persistence since almost every dealer initially resists a consumer's efforts to buy a car remotely and most consumers then just go in to the dealer.
This sounds like a lot more time and effort than just going to the dealership.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by jabberwockOG » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:01 pm

Wasting time and effort is sitting in a car dealership like a noob while the entire sales crew runs its standard routine on you.
Negotiating effectively requires leverage, and a car buyer has little leverage while they are sitting at the dealer. And the longer they sit there the less leverage they have. On several occasions over the years, I have saved family members $800-1000 on final purchase price with one or two 5-10 minute phone calls. This was after they thought they had their best deal and then took my advice and left the dealer.

I understand the motivation for folks to talk themselves into feeling good about the deal when they have yet again gone in to do the car buying dance with the "sales team"...sitting at the dealer while they run their game wasting your time while you attempt to negotiate with zero leverage.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by KyleAAA » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:39 am

jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:01 pm
Wasting time and effort is sitting in a car dealership like a noob while the entire sales crew runs its standard routine on you.
Negotiating effectively requires leverage, and a car buyer has little leverage while they are sitting at the dealer. And the longer they sit there the less leverage they have. On several occasions over the years, I have saved family members $800-1000 on final purchase price with one or two 5-10 minute phone calls. This was after they thought they had their best deal and then took my advice and left the dealer.

I understand the motivation for folks to talk themselves into feeling good about the deal when they have yet again gone in to do the car buying dance with the "sales team"...sitting at the dealer while they run their game wasting your time while you attempt to negotiate with zero leverage.
You shouldn't spend more than about 45 minutes in a dealership buying a car from start to finish if you've done your homework. It's actually far more time-efficient than the email game. They won't try to run their standard routine on you if you come in direct with a reasonable OTD price in mind with research to back it up. Why would they? It's against their best interests to waste their time. And unlike the email game (which works AT BEST about 20% of the time), this works every. single. time. Keep in mind that times have changed tremendously over the past decade. Any car-buying experience you have that's more than about 5 years old is essentially worthless.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by kjvmartin » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:54 am

KyleAAA wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:39 am
jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:01 pm
Wasting time and effort is sitting in a car dealership like a noob while the entire sales crew runs its standard routine on you.
Negotiating effectively requires leverage, and a car buyer has little leverage while they are sitting at the dealer. And the longer they sit there the less leverage they have. On several occasions over the years, I have saved family members $800-1000 on final purchase price with one or two 5-10 minute phone calls. This was after they thought they had their best deal and then took my advice and left the dealer.

I understand the motivation for folks to talk themselves into feeling good about the deal when they have yet again gone in to do the car buying dance with the "sales team"...sitting at the dealer while they run their game wasting your time while you attempt to negotiate with zero leverage.
You shouldn't spend more than about 45 minutes in a dealership buying a car from start to finish if you've done your homework. It's actually far more time-efficient than the email game. They won't try to run their standard routine on you if you come in direct with a reasonable OTD price in mind with research to back it up. Why would they? It's against their best interests to waste their time. And unlike the email game (which works AT BEST about 20% of the time), this works every. single. time. Keep in mind that times have changed tremendously over the past decade. Any car-buying experience you have that's more than about 5 years old is essentially worthless.
Many dealers will just hold onto the car and sell it to someone more gullible than you.

Case in point: I had a lease price in hand, in writing for $250 for a Chevrolet Equinox. Very common car, high local inventory. I needed to test drive with the kids and wife and went to a closer dealership for that purpose. Would have bought there, but the salesman wanted $300. I didn't bring up the other offer, and tried for better pricing every which way I could. I tried TrueCar, KBB. I tried walking away. They would not budge below $300. Turns out the original dealer that quoted me $250 has a good reputation for typically being the lowest price. When the $300 guy followed me to my car, I told him about the $250 and he said it was impossible. So, I produced the offer from the prior dealership.

Only then were they willing to match the price. I told them that I was insulted and felt they were trying to take advantage of me and that I would never purchase or recommend from them. The salesman got mad at me, saying he was just trying to feed his family. I guess the salespeople at the other dealership are all starving?

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by KyleAAA » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:35 pm

kjvmartin wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:54 am
KyleAAA wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:39 am
jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:01 pm
Wasting time and effort is sitting in a car dealership like a noob while the entire sales crew runs its standard routine on you.
Negotiating effectively requires leverage, and a car buyer has little leverage while they are sitting at the dealer. And the longer they sit there the less leverage they have. On several occasions over the years, I have saved family members $800-1000 on final purchase price with one or two 5-10 minute phone calls. This was after they thought they had their best deal and then took my advice and left the dealer.

I understand the motivation for folks to talk themselves into feeling good about the deal when they have yet again gone in to do the car buying dance with the "sales team"...sitting at the dealer while they run their game wasting your time while you attempt to negotiate with zero leverage.
You shouldn't spend more than about 45 minutes in a dealership buying a car from start to finish if you've done your homework. It's actually far more time-efficient than the email game. They won't try to run their standard routine on you if you come in direct with a reasonable OTD price in mind with research to back it up. Why would they? It's against their best interests to waste their time. And unlike the email game (which works AT BEST about 20% of the time), this works every. single. time. Keep in mind that times have changed tremendously over the past decade. Any car-buying experience you have that's more than about 5 years old is essentially worthless.
Many dealers will just hold onto the car and sell it to someone more gullible than you.

Case in point: I had a lease price in hand, in writing for $250 for a Chevrolet Equinox. Very common car, high local inventory. I needed to test drive with the kids and wife and went to a closer dealership for that purpose. Would have bought there, but the salesman wanted $300. I didn't bring up the other offer, and tried for better pricing every which way I could. I tried TrueCar, KBB. I tried walking away. They would not budge below $300. Turns out the original dealer that quoted me $250 has a good reputation for typically being the lowest price. When the $300 guy followed me to my car, I told him about the $250 and he said it was impossible. So, I produced the offer from the prior dealership.

Only then were they willing to match the price. I told them that I was insulted and felt they were trying to take advantage of me and that I would never purchase or recommend from them. The salesman got mad at me, saying he was just trying to feed his family. I guess the salespeople at the other dealership are all starving?
Why didn't you just buy it for $250 from the original dealership or at least bring it up immediately? Sounds like you could have easily gotten that price with no back and forth.

likegarden
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by likegarden » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:46 pm

There must be a difference in honesty by dealers, not so much by corporate Headquarters. I trust GM, but in my case a dealer must have sold my info to some insurance outfit, which knows exactly what type car I bought 3/4 of a year ago, plus my Email address, and is trying now via his various names and Email addresses to sell me extended warranty. I just got an Email in which some guy is telling me my new warranty is starting right now! They also are trying to sell me other insurance. Perhaps they also have Medicare lists and look for old people which supposedly are easy marks.
I trust my credit card company will notify me when someone pays himself to sell me extended warranty.
Last edited by likegarden on Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Nowizard
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by Nowizard » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:47 pm

You can get a price if you email and state that you, like most these days, have pricing information, list what you want and the price you are offering. Be certain to check the "Documentary" fee for the dealer. They are typically $500 in my city but are limited to $129 by state regulation in a nearby state fifteen miles away.

Tim

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by jabberwockOG » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:20 pm

Successfully obtaining a lower than average cost purchase on a car at any given moment requires use of leverage in the negotiation of cost and T&Cs, and in subsequent transaction. Understanding how to recognize, develop, and maintain buyer's leverage requires some basic understanding of the car business and dealer showroom sales techniques.

Dealers with a line of customers in the showroom with a high demand model to sell require a completely different approach than dealers that have extra cars on the lot (and on floorplan costing them money) on average demand cars. On a super hot brand new car model in high demand there is only one way to obtain lowest purchase price and I'm not sharing that tip because it would quickly disappear.

But on normal to high average demand cars it is possible to pay lower than average cost by buying remote via email and phone. There are also certain days of the month and quarter when dealers will sell even very high demand cars at near cost if necessary just to move them that day.

But in this mix of various factors to work with there is no circumstance where going on the dealer premises is going to get you the best price (or anywhere near it). It is the easiest approach and you will meet very little resistance because the dealer sales staff is confident that they can maximize their profits on a car sale once you are on their premises you have started investing your valuable time at the dealer on their transaction. And yes the longer they stall you, the more they wear you down, the longer they increase the time you are there (on the edge of walking out), the better they will do as you get tired, impatient, and wanting to just complete the transaction and go home with your new car. It is a game they have perfected and you sitting there like a noob cannot win, and they know it.

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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by KyleAAA » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:03 pm

jabberwockOG wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:20 pm
But on normal to high average demand cars it is possible to pay lower than average cost by buying remote via email and phone. There are also certain days of the month and quarter when dealers will sell even very high demand cars at near cost if necessary just to move them that day.
I agree it's possible to pay a lower than average price by buying remote via email and phone. It's just a lot faster, easier, and more reliable to do it in person.
jabberwockOG wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:20 pm
It is a game they have perfected and you sitting there like a noob cannot win, and they know it.
Interesting perspective. Almost to a man actual salespeople will disagree with you (in a setting where they have nothing to gain from lying and no motivation to do so). My personal experience and the experience of others backs this up. There's no conspiracy here.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by jabberwockOG » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:32 pm

Hopefully the OP has gained some insight from differing perspectives on this thread. Ultimately everyone can pick or choose what advice and approach might work for them and what might not in their specific situation.

smackboy1
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by smackboy1 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:01 am

The key to successful negotiation - any negotiation, is to understand what is really happening in the minds of the parties. Professional negotiators know this i.e. salepeople, lawyers, politicians, diplomats, hostage negotiators etc.. The average layperson does not understand this and are like the fabled blind men encountering an elephant for the first time - they only perceive that part which is in front of them, and they have no idea of the entire animal they are standing before.

Every negotiation is different and the best strategy depends on the situation of the game and the players at that time and place. Pros know that in order to be successful, they have to know their own strength, weaknesses, motivations, limitations, but also the other party's too. There are technical aspects e.g. balance sheet, profit/loss, supply/demand, but also emotional e.g. human behavior, both rational and irrational.

Email reverse auction method works well if the supply of cars is adequate and there are many dealerships to choose from. It's not at all effective if there is limited supply and few dealerships. Some dealerships do not respond to email reverse auctions, some do. That's why you have to start with a large email blast to 10-20 dealerships. Some dealerships are more sensitive to end of month quotas. Email reverse auction works well for most people because it mitigates their biggest weaknesses: lack of skill, experience, emotional control, discipline.

Most salepeople are not emotionally invested in the negotiation. They are disciplined. It's imposed upon them because usually they have almost no freedom to make offers without the authorization of the sales manager. However, they know that the average buyer is not disciplined and overly emotional and easily manipulated. They know the average buyer does not understand or have experience or skill in negotiation. They know that the #1 motivation for the average buyer is to get the uncomfortable haggling over with quickly and buy the car for a "reasonable" price - and that what is reasonable in the buyer's mind is easily manipulated. That's how tactics like home turf advantage, anchoring, teaming, stalling, rationalizing, bait and switch, appealing to higher authority, throwing a fit etc. all work.

It's like a novice challenging a grand master at chess - beating them is near impossible if they don't want to let you win. I don't play chess. I try to get to win-win for both parties. I try to solve the puzzle of, "how can I find the hidden lowest price among all the dealerships near my location"? In order to do that I have to find the hidden lowest price at each dealership in my area, then compare them with each other. The hidden lowest price is usually not revealed by the dealership until they truly believe they are faced with "take it or leave it" situation where they believe I will exercise my best alternative to accepting his offer - buying it from another dealer. Any lower than that and the dealer will exercise their best alternative: take their chances and wait for another buyer. That's why the end of the month is such a good time. That 1 more car might fill a quota that unlocks manufacturer holdbacks or additional allocation or some other value.

Me personally, I do not like negotiating for cars in person because it's a large time commitment. I have many car dealerships close by. I like to "prime the pump" by test driving, calling and visiting the closest dealership where I'm likely to bring the car for service. Then I send out the email blast. The closest dealers I may call them again to egg them on a bit and get their competitive juices flowing. Competitive drive is an emotion that all salespeople respond to, as well as the fear of losing revenue to the enemy. Interestingly in my last 2 purchases in the last 12 months, none of the dealerships I visiting in person and did the dance with the sales team came even close to the best offer. The best offers all came from dealerships I didn't even call on the phone, only email.

For a widely available car that is not in super high demand it should be possible to check if a negotiated price is a good one. As a general rule for most cars an OTD price 10% below the OTD MSRP is a starting point for a good price. With incentives and tough negotiating 15%+ discount is not impossible. Also, look at the TrueCar price chart. The TrueCar average price is the sucker's price. A good price should be completely off the left edge of the chart.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

scooter
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by scooter » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:12 pm

I purchased my last suv Acura 2016 thru internet

Sent email to each dealer within 75 miles and asked for price with deadline date

Asked for certain model, color and out the door price to include all fees and taxes.

Picked the lowest price which happened to also be the closet dealer.

Worked great.

CurlyDave
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by CurlyDave » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:38 pm

squirm wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:36 am
Have you try tried Costco?
+1

My last car purchase, I got a price through a Costco participating dealer. They were quite far away, but when I went to the local dealer and mentioned Costco, they immediately said they would match prices.They got the business, but did not have to give Costco their cut.

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verbose
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Re: Negotiating for a new car purchase

Post by verbose » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:08 pm

OP here, just wrapping up this thread:

I finally got the $1000 back from the dealer that promised a car that never appeared. They told me they weren’t trying to pull anything. I still don’t believe them, but I got my money back and I don’t care anymore. I certainly won’t be shopping there ever again.

I bought a car from another dealer, received the car’s paperwork three weeks later, and now have title and plates. I’m looking forward to NOT buying a car for many years.

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