Time for a new laptop?

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dodgy55
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Time for a new laptop?

Post by dodgy55 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:41 am

Been having problems with my Toshiba laptop for awhile now. Laptop is around 5 years old and running Windows 7. Downloaded Windows 10 last summer and seems that is when my problems began. Needed to hire a tech pro to resolve issues from my deleting Windows 10. Recently, in trying to resolve printing issues I stumbled upon an "Administrative Error Log". The log listed several thousand errors & warnings. Tried to research the internet to see if all these error messages were critical. I got mixed results and all the info made my hair hurt. Thinking of getting a new laptop. Love to hear comments from Boglehead pros as to: 1-are these error messages critical and 2-should I give up the ghost and buy a new laptop?
Fond memories are the best investment

Tutty59
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by Tutty59 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:55 am

I can't speak to the specific errors you're receiving, but if your laptop has a list of "several thousand" warnings it may be time to consider upgrading. That being said, Black Friday deals are right around the corner. If you can hold off until then, you will probably get the most bang for your buck.

JohnFiscal
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by JohnFiscal » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:58 am

Almost a year ago I bought an expensive new Lenovo Thinkpad T460 with Windows 10. And I am using MS Office 2016 (subscription version).

There are a number of complaints/frustrations/annoyances that I have with Windows 10. I use a computer all day long at the office. We are running Windows 7 and I like it just fine. Windows 10 provides no particular benefits to me as a user, and it does present a number of annoyances in use. I would like for the OS to be transparent to me, the user.

I frequently continue to use my 10 year old Sony Vaio laptop (in pretty blue color) with (ugh) Windows Vista (although as a user Vista, XP, and Win 7 are pretty much indistinguishable from that viewpoint...unlike Win 10). I prefer the Office 2007 that I am using there too.

I have put Office 2007 on the Win 10 system and am slowly trying to get accustomed to Office 2016 (or is it 2017?).

My Sony runs just fine at 10 years old, although modern internet usage will slow it down.

My point is that your 5 year old laptop may do just fine. You might want to back up your data, then reformat the drive (or put in a new solid state drive for speed) and install Win 10 fresh.


ETA: agree with the Black Friday deals. That is when I got the Lenovo for 40% off.

jebmke
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by jebmke » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:00 am

Five years isn't that old. I have plenty of laptops that are a lot older in use at my TaxAide sites. It is unclear from your post where the system stands now in terms of OS. Did you revert back to Windows 7?

Before chucking the whole laptop I would try a clean install of whichever OS I wanted to run and see how it performs. Normally when problems crop up I try to determine if solving them will take me more than an hour. If so, I just reinstall the operating system and start fresh.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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lthenderson
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by lthenderson » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:12 am

I gather up old laptops that others are having problems with, reformat the hard drive and install a fresh version of the operating system and give them to a local private school for use. Almost always the problems are user induced and not hardware induced.

azurekep
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by azurekep » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:43 am

lthenderson wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:12 am
I gather up old laptops that others are having problems with, reformat the hard drive and install a fresh version of the operating system and give them to a local private school for use. Almost always the problems are user induced and not hardware induced.
+1

Not everyone has the inclination to learn how to maintain their OS and keep it running smoothly. But everyone should at least learn how to do a clean install of the OS if they want to keep their PC for many years.

aristotelian
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by aristotelian » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:48 am

Could be a lot of things. Now that your previous issue was resolved, are you noticing any performance issue beyond the error messages?

I hate to say it because I am not a fanboy, but you don't get that type of stuff with Apple products.

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danwhite77
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by danwhite77 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:51 am

Probably going to receive a number of negative replies for this, but I would recommend a MacBook or MacBook Pro. I used to spend tremendous time troubleshooting my DOS Box / Windows machines. Finally got fed up with dealing with the headaches in fall 2009 and bought a MacBook Pro. My wife still uses that laptop as her daily driver (I very recently purchased a new MacBook). The MBP has been nearly flawless for eight years running now. I can't recall having a major problem with it. In fact, it still runs well with minimal lag (although I did recently install a SSD and some more RAM).

The only thing I don't like about Apple products is paying for them. That MacBook Pro was pricey at around (IIRC) $2,000 back in 2009. But it's been a great laptop for almost 10 years so the cost seems much more reasonable to me now.
"While some mutual fund founders chose to make billions, he chose to make a difference." - Dedication to Jack Bogle in 'The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing'.

jebmke
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by jebmke » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:55 am

Would also be helpful to know how the system is used. If all I did was browsing and very simple "office type" work I would look seriously at a Chromebook and do all the office work in the cloud.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:55 am

I would go with a reinstall after 5 years.
When you purchased the laptop - did it come with an installation/tools disk? Or does it have a recovery partition? Or did it invite you to build a recovery USB stick? I'm not familiar with how Toshiba sets up their laptops but if I was you I would just back up my data and rebuild the laptop with Windows7 (If you were happy with it and don't need 10).

I don't agree that Apple products don't have issues (just google "spinning wheel of death"). In my household we have 3 windows laptops, 1 windows desktop, and 1 MacAir. The latter gives us the most issues. Experiences will vary but don't go out and buy a Mac (for double the price) hoping it will fix all your issues.

junior
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by junior » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:56 am

dodgy55 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:41 am
Been having problems with my Toshiba laptop for awhile now. Laptop is around 5 years old and running Windows 7. Downloaded Windows 10 last summer and seems that is when my problems began. Needed to hire a tech pro to resolve issues from my deleting Windows 10. Recently, in trying to resolve printing issues I stumbled upon an "Administrative Error Log". The log listed several thousand errors & warnings. Tried to research the internet to see if all these error messages were critical. I got mixed results and all the info made my hair hurt. Thinking of getting a new laptop. Love to hear comments from Boglehead pros as to: 1-are these error messages critical and 2-should I give up the ghost and buy a new laptop?
As others have said, virtually every laptop has a way to "factory reset". This would return it to the original software state from when you bought it 5 years ago. You should be able to do a backup of your data then factory reset and reinstall everything. This is not hard to do, just slightly time consuming, and you shouldn't need to use a computer technician to do it.

Googling something like how to factory reset a Toshiba laptop would be a good place to start.

Beyond that since you don't provide the error I don't know how anyone could advise you. Buying a new laptop without trying a factory reset probably doesn't make sense unless you would enjoy buying a new laptop simply to have a newer model.

TheOscarGuy
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by TheOscarGuy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:06 am

dodgy55 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:41 am
Been having problems with my Toshiba laptop for awhile now. Laptop is around 5 years old and running Windows 7. Downloaded Windows 10 last summer and seems that is when my problems began. Needed to hire a tech pro to resolve issues from my deleting Windows 10. Recently, in trying to resolve printing issues I stumbled upon an "Administrative Error Log". The log listed several thousand errors & warnings. Tried to research the internet to see if all these error messages were critical. I got mixed results and all the info made my hair hurt. Thinking of getting a new laptop. Love to hear comments from Boglehead pros as to: 1-are these error messages critical and 2-should I give up the ghost and buy a new laptop?
I would strongly advise against buying another windows-based laptop. It would be nothing but headaches for outside-the-workplace setting. Regular users are not equipped with properly maintaining a windows machine and more often than not end up hurting themselves.

Do you use it for any important stuff or just browsing? If it is former, I would not continue using the machine and get a new (non-windows) one.

LiterallyIronic
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by LiterallyIronic » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:08 am

dodgy55 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:41 am
Been having problems with my Toshiba laptop for awhile now. Laptop is around 5 years old and running Windows 7. Downloaded Windows 10 last summer and seems that is when my problems began. Needed to hire a tech pro to resolve issues from my deleting Windows 10. Recently, in trying to resolve printing issues I stumbled upon an "Administrative Error Log". The log listed several thousand errors & warnings. Tried to research the internet to see if all these error messages were critical. I got mixed results and all the info made my hair hurt. Thinking of getting a new laptop. Love to hear comments from Boglehead pros as to: 1-are these error messages critical and 2-should I give up the ghost and buy a new laptop?
I'm not 100% sure, but it sounds like you're talking about the log in the Event Viewer: https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/up ... ge0089.png

If that's the case, everyone has tons of errors and warnings in there. In fact, this is what many (most?) of the fake Windows Support scammers use to make you think something is wrong and that you should give them control of your computer to fix it. https://askleo.com/event-viewer-many-errors/

I wouldn't worry about anything in there.

I'd just roll back to Windows 7 if you can't fix the unspecified problems you've been having. Or give us more details on the problems you're experiencing.

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Toons
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by Toons » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:58 am

Computers are such a commodity these days.
You can find Windows 10 computers that will "do the job"
for 300-400 dollars :happy
I would consider upgrading. :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

TheOscarGuy
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by TheOscarGuy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:28 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:55 am

I don't agree that Apple products don't have issues (just google "spinning wheel of death"). In my household we have 3 windows laptops, 1 windows desktop, and 1 MacAir. The latter gives us the most issues. Experiences will vary but don't go out and buy a Mac (for double the price) hoping it will fix all your issues.
My experience has been quite good with apple products.
I always bought apple care with my machines.
I have had a 10 year old hardware from apple still running, which seems amazing to me.
I am in tech industry and consider myself tech savvy. But maintaining a home windows machines gives me nightmares, considering a lot of important work is being done on these machines.
I would gladly pay premium if it means longer lasting product that never has had viruses/spyware on it.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:43 pm

TheOscarGuy wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:28 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:55 am

I don't agree that Apple products don't have issues (just google "spinning wheel of death"). In my household we have 3 windows laptops, 1 windows desktop, and 1 MacAir. The latter gives us the most issues. Experiences will vary but don't go out and buy a Mac (for double the price) hoping it will fix all your issues.
My experience has been quite good with apple products.
I always bought apple care with my machines.
I have had a 10 year old hardware from apple still running, which seems amazing to me.
I am in tech industry and consider myself tech savvy. But maintaining a home windows machines gives me nightmares, considering a lot of important work is being done on these machines.
I would gladly pay premium if it means longer lasting product that never has had viruses/spyware on it.
Like I said - experiences may vary.
You are wrong about it being a product that never has had viruses/spyware on it however. There haven't been as many as Windows - but there have been quite a few - at least a handful of new ones every year in fact (the Lamadai Java vulnerability, The Appetite Trojan horse, bitcoin login theft through a cracked AngryBird application, KeRanger ransomware attack, ...).
As Apple has become more popular there has been more Malware developed for it. Don't let your guard down thinking Mac isn't vulnerable.

EDIT ADD: I don't want to get into a Windows/Mac debate - I just want the OP (and others) to think before they act. I know people who switched to Macs because they believed that "They never have problems"..."They aren't susceptible to Malware" only to later learn that these are myths.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:55 pm

dodgy55 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:41 am
Been having problems with my Toshiba laptop for awhile now. Laptop is around 5 years old and running Windows 7. Downloaded Windows 10 last summer and seems that is when my problems began. Needed to hire a tech pro to resolve issues from my deleting Windows 10. Recently, in trying to resolve printing issues I stumbled upon an "Administrative Error Log". The log listed several thousand errors & warnings. Tried to research the internet to see if all these error messages were critical. I got mixed results and all the info made my hair hurt. Thinking of getting a new laptop. Love to hear comments from Boglehead pros as to: 1-are these error messages critical and 2-should I give up the ghost and buy a new laptop?
MacBook Pro (latest)

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Sandtrap
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:56 pm

dodgy55 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:41 am
Been having problems with my Toshiba laptop for awhile now. Laptop is around 5 years old and running Windows 7. Downloaded Windows 10 last summer and seems that is when my problems began. Needed to hire a tech pro to resolve issues from my deleting Windows 10. Recently, in trying to resolve printing issues I stumbled upon an "Administrative Error Log". The log listed several thousand errors & warnings. Tried to research the internet to see if all these error messages were critical. I got mixed results and all the info made my hair hurt. Thinking of getting a new laptop. Love to hear comments from Boglehead pros as to: 1-are these error messages critical and 2-should I give up the ghost and buy a new laptop?
MacBook Pro (latest)

Have PC's in my offices.
But my "go to" bulletproof laptop is a MacBook Pro.
Switched from IBM/Lenovo years back.

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Alexa9
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by Alexa9 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:06 pm

Mac convert. It is a night and day better experience. Windows just has too many problems and the hardware isn't that great either. Apple customer service/warranty is far better as well. Apple refurbished store has the same warranty as brand new for ~20% off list price. I suppose I have drunk the Apple Kool Aid.

lightheir
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by lightheir » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:31 pm

Gonna pile on with the above, but to reiterate:

- Unless you have a SPECIFIC limitation that you're trying to overcome on your laptop (like really poor battery life), your problmes with your 'error msgs' can be easily fixed with a Windows reinstall. And your 5-yr old laptop will do everything else required for typical web and office use with aplomb, so unless there is a SPECIFIC thing you really are limited by (like playing 3d games or doing 3d rendering), the hardware upgrade won't change your experience any.

- Going Apple is a big change given the ecosystem experience, but as a user of both now (my wife's computer is Apple), I agree that the Apple experience is smoother/better. That said, it's seriously annoying if you want to leave the Apple ecosystem - they make it as closer to a one-way street (into apple, poor out) as possible.

LiterallyIronic
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by LiterallyIronic » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:34 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:06 pm
Mac convert. It is a night and day better experience. Windows just has too many problems and the hardware isn't that great either. Apple customer service/warranty is far better as well. Apple refurbished store has the same warranty as brand new for ~20% off list price. I suppose I have drunk the Apple Kool Aid.
I don't want to get into a Windows vs Mac vs Linux debate, either, but you can get pretty much whatever hardware you want with Windows. I build my own machines, so I pick out the hardware. Currently running an i7 6700k, 32GB DDR4-3200, GTX 1080, 256GB SSD, 6TB HDD that I built last year. Everything comes with a manufacturers warranty, so I don't need a warranty from the seller. And since I know how to operate my computer, I don't need customer service unless I'm dealing with a broken piece of hardware covered by the aforementioned manufacturers warranty. If something breaks after the warranty, I can just open up my machine and replace that part. And I never have virus/spyware problems because I don't visit sketchy websites or download sketchy things.

Let's not give Windows a bad rep for what it doesn't deserve. Though it does deserve it for Windows 10 specifically. Personally, if I was leaving Windows 7, I'd go to Linux.

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Alexa9
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by Alexa9 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:06 pm

LiterallyIronic wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:34 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:06 pm
Mac convert. It is a night and day better experience. Windows just has too many problems and the hardware isn't that great either. Apple customer service/warranty is far better as well. Apple refurbished store has the same warranty as brand new for ~20% off list price. I suppose I have drunk the Apple Kool Aid.
I don't want to get into a Windows vs Mac vs Linux debate, either, but you can get pretty much whatever hardware you want with Windows. I build my own machines, so I pick out the hardware. Currently running an i7 6700k, 32GB DDR4-3200, GTX 1080, 256GB SSD, 6TB HDD that I built last year. Everything comes with a manufacturers warranty, so I don't need a warranty from the seller. And since I know how to operate my computer, I don't need customer service unless I'm dealing with a broken piece of hardware covered by the aforementioned manufacturers warranty. If something breaks after the warranty, I can just open up my machine and replace that part. And I never have virus/spyware problems because I don't visit sketchy websites or download sketchy things.

Let's not give Windows a bad rep for what it doesn't deserve. Though it does deserve it for Windows 10 specifically. Personally, if I was leaving Windows 7, I'd go to Linux.
OP is looking for a new laptop. You build your own laptops? A Windows desktop is reasonable. I really like the Intel NUC. I still prefer Macbook Pros over anything Windows has to offer. Linux has limitations with what programs it can run and MacOS is based on Linux. You admit that Windows 10 is bad. The options are somewhat limited. I don't think there is a clear cut winner and everyone has different needs. Some people can even get by with just a cheap Chromebook.

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Hyperborea
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by Hyperborea » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:16 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:06 pm
OP is looking for a new laptop. You build your own laptops? A Windows desktop is reasonable. I really like the Intel NUC. I still prefer Macbook Pros over anything Windows has to offer. Linux has limitations with what programs it can run and MacOS is based on Linux. You admit that Windows 10 is bad. The options are somewhat limited. I don't think there is a clear cut winner and everyone has different needs. Some people can even get by with just a cheap Chromebook.
Close but not right. MacOS since OS X is based on BSD, a variant of Unix. Linux is an open source Unix clone. MacOS became BSD based when Steve came back to Apple and brought NeXT with him. That was integrated into MacOS.

I have a mixed Mac and Chromebook environment. For a lot of uses a Chromebook makes an ideal solution for most people.

LiterallyIronic
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by LiterallyIronic » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:46 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:06 pm
LiterallyIronic wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:34 pm
Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:06 pm
Mac convert. It is a night and day better experience. Windows just has too many problems and the hardware isn't that great either. Apple customer service/warranty is far better as well. Apple refurbished store has the same warranty as brand new for ~20% off list price. I suppose I have drunk the Apple Kool Aid.
I don't want to get into a Windows vs Mac vs Linux debate, either, but you can get pretty much whatever hardware you want with Windows. I build my own machines, so I pick out the hardware. Currently running an i7 6700k, 32GB DDR4-3200, GTX 1080, 256GB SSD, 6TB HDD that I built last year. Everything comes with a manufacturers warranty, so I don't need a warranty from the seller. And since I know how to operate my computer, I don't need customer service unless I'm dealing with a broken piece of hardware covered by the aforementioned manufacturers warranty. If something breaks after the warranty, I can just open up my machine and replace that part. And I never have virus/spyware problems because I don't visit sketchy websites or download sketchy things.

Let's not give Windows a bad rep for what it doesn't deserve. Though it does deserve it for Windows 10 specifically. Personally, if I was leaving Windows 7, I'd go to Linux.
OP is looking for a new laptop. You build your own laptops? A Windows desktop is reasonable. I really like the Intel NUC. I still prefer Macbook Pros over anything Windows has to offer. Linux has limitations with what programs it can run and MacOS is based on Linux. You admit that Windows 10 is bad. The options are somewhat limited. I don't think there is a clear cut winner and everyone has different needs. Some people can even get by with just a cheap Chromebook.
I'm just saying that "Windows == bad hardware" is a false equivalency. Here's a Windows laptop with solid specs: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 000N-00037

If I were limited to laptops for whatever reason, then I'd buy a Windows 10 laptop, format it, and install Windows 7. Linux does have limitations on what programs it can run - just like MacOS. If you're going for software compatibility, Windows is the clear winner.

This all being said, before recommending OP a new machine, we need to know how it needs to be used. And that being said, like I and others are saying, backing up data and reformatting might be good enough for OP's needs.

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sunny_socal
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by sunny_socal » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:04 pm

I wouldn't worry about the errors, if the machine still works well for the applications you use then just keep it. All modern computer systems contain error logging to be used for debug but it doesn't necessarily have any implications for daily use.

I'll second the recommendation to get a Mac. I used to be windows-only but now I'm completely windows-free and life has been good:
- Two Macbook Pros
- Kids have Chromebooks
- Older PC laptop running Linux Mint

We have very few 'IT' problems at home, I must only troubleshoot a couple things a year and usually it's related to the Wifi router or our printers. The computers themselves are virtually perfect. It's like night & day compared to living with Windows machines, I was working on those at least once a month.

mega317
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by mega317 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:06 pm

I'm not the OP but a follow up question to those suggesting refresh/reformat. Do you need a copy of the OS for this? I buy my laptops used, often they do not come with software. Just curious, and it may apply to the OP as well.

mmcmonster
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by mmcmonster » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:11 pm

azurekep wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:43 am
Not everyone has the inclination to learn how to maintain their OS and keep it running smoothly. But everyone should at least learn how to do a clean install of the OS if they want to keep their PC for many years.
While I agree in theory, I'm concerned that for Windows laptops the Windows DVD may not have all the drivers needed to bring up the system safely (in a stable form).

Give the laptop away and let the school/library figure it out. Or if you want to get adventurous download a linux desktop such as Linux Mint Cinnamon (https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php) and run it right from the CD/USB stick and see if it's for you without even installing it on the laptop hard drive.
Last edited by mmcmonster on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jebmke
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by jebmke » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:20 pm

mega317 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:06 pm
I'm not the OP but a follow up question to those suggesting refresh/reformat. Do you need a copy of the OS for this? I buy my laptops used, often they do not come with software. Just curious, and it may apply to the OP as well.
It depends. Most laptops sold nowdays have a built in factory reset procedure created by the OEM. It basically reinstalls the OS with an image of the one that was installed when the laptop was shipped. That is a clean install but has all the baggage that OEMs normally ship on their machine.

If you have the license key you can often download a pure copy of the OS and install it without all the OEM stuff and then activate it with your key.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by junior » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:30 pm

I own both an apple laptop and a windows laptop.

There's a number of issues with Apple laptops, from lack of ports to lack of hardware options to the fact the company forces you to get chicklet style thin keyboards on all new devices, there's also less opportunity to find a really good bargain device on sale, and cost is high in general. (And there is no guarantee a device will last 10 years contrary to anecdotes here.)

There are also a number of disadvantages to windows laptops, the biggest being the fact that Windows 10 is constantly "updated" for new features, making it a "work in progress" which can get buggy. Microsoft does not allow you to opt out of these features, which could even trigger a driver incompatibility and cause your laptop to crash.

jebmke
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by jebmke » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:50 pm

junior wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:30 pm
There are also a number of disadvantages to windows laptops, the biggest being the fact that Windows 10 is constantly "updated" for new features, making it a "work in progress" which can get buggy. Microsoft does not allow you to opt out of these features, which could even trigger a driver incompatibility and cause your laptop to crash.
Actually there are ways but they are a little ad-hoc. The easiest way, which I have done for my wife's laptop is to declare the wireless network a metered network and not allow updates on metered networks.

I do this with our laptops at our TaxAide sites so they don't get bogged down or unpredictably reboot in the middle of working on a tax return. I monitor the MS updates to see if there are security-related ones that are critical and we force those in when needed. Most of the time I just tell people to fire up the laptop at home and let the machine update on a different network that is not declared as metered.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:58 pm

Every time a "windows versus Mac" debate starts there is a lot of information, misinformation and resulting debate.
There is only a SINGLE FACT that everyone on both sides of the debate always agree on.
If you buy an Apple you will be paying more :)

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by jabberwockOG » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:04 pm

danwhite77 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:51 am
Probably going to receive a number of negative replies for this, but I would recommend a MacBook or MacBook Pro. I used to spend tremendous time troubleshooting my DOS Box / Windows machines. Finally got fed up with dealing with the headaches in fall 2009 and bought a MacBook Pro. My wife still uses that laptop as her daily driver (I very recently purchased a new MacBook). The MBP has been nearly flawless for eight years running now. I can't recall having a major problem with it. In fact, it still runs well with minimal lag (although I did recently install a SSD and some more RAM).

The only thing I don't like about Apple products is paying for them. That MacBook Pro was pricey at around (IIRC) $2,000 back in 2009. But it's been a great laptop for almost 10 years so the cost seems much more reasonable to me now.
This ~ 100% agree. Windows power user for 20 years and it was mostly an unreliable, intermittent pita. Have been running a Macbook for last 5 years and love it. I could not even tell you what Mac OS I am on...no issues, no drama, zero stress. Yes the initial $ cost is more but in the long run it is worth every penny and much more. Budget wise it is the difference between paying for the extra comfort from coach to first class fare but imagine the plane ride lasts 5-7 years.

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by Dottie57 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:12 pm

lightheir wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:31 pm
Gonna pile on with the above, but to reiterate:

- Unless you have a SPECIFIC limitation that you're trying to overcome on your laptop (like really poor battery life), your problmes with your 'error msgs' can be easily fixed with a Windows reinstall. And your 5-yr old laptop will do everything else required for typical web and office use with aplomb, so unless there is a SPECIFIC thing you really are limited by (like playing 3d games or doing 3d rendering), the hardware upgrade won't change your experience any.

- Going Apple is a big change given the ecosystem experience, but as a user of both now (my wife's computer is Apple), I agree that the Apple experience is smoother/better. That said, it's seriously annoying if you want to leave the Apple ecosystem - they make it as closer to a one-way street (into apple, poor out) as possible.

I agree with everything you say. I own only Apple Computers. Easier to maintain. Howeverything is "the Apple Way". I pay that price because I have fewer problems.

IMac is from 2008 (early). And macbook pro from 2012.

I will probably be purchasing a new pro machine because there are new technologies I want to learn. And the older computers will be slow going.

knick17
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by knick17 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:40 pm

I am surprised your laptop lasted 5 yrs! New generation laptops to me last much shorter than old school ones. I had similar experience with various errors popping up from nowhere. Sometimes the money to get it fixed is not worth the result.

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by TheOscarGuy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:50 am

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:43 pm

Like I said - experiences may vary.
You are wrong about it being a product that never has had viruses/spyware on it however. There haven't been as many as Windows - but there have been quite a few - at least a handful of new ones every year in fact (the Lamadai Java vulnerability, The Appetite Trojan horse, bitcoin login theft through a cracked AngryBird application, KeRanger ransomware attack, ...).
As Apple has become more popular there has been more Malware developed for it. Don't let your guard down thinking Mac isn't vulnerable.

EDIT ADD: I don't want to get into a Windows/Mac debate - I just want the OP (and others) to think before they act. I know people who switched to Macs because they believed that "They never have problems"..."They aren't susceptible to Malware" only to later learn that these are myths.
I see your point -- I should have qualified that *I* have not had viruses on my mac. To my knowledge Apple also does not recommend any antivirus for its own OS, just keeping it up to date. Based on my experience of using both systems, I would say one is more appropriate in a development environment where you have an organization maintaining it. For personal use, especially for novice users, I think Apple gives the least amounts of headaches w.r.t. security issues.
I was in the habit of upgrading to windows and going through atleast one or two OS wipes before being done with the machine. Part of it I have to say was hardware vendors fault too. But to me the overall experience of using windows for personal use was not that great. I have been happier having moved away from it.

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by cutterinnj » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:18 am

I moved over to Macs in 2013, having never used them previously.

My Macbook air is now over 4 years old and runs great (actually faster than the day I bought it.) Minimal upkeep, never crashes.

If you MUST use Windows apps, then just buy another Windows laptop- they're cheap, and it's cheaper to just recycle the old one vs spending for tech support.

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by flamesabers » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:20 am

OP,

I think it depends as to whether you prefer to spend time vs. money on this issue. Unless you're a major gamer or otherwise need a computer with up-to-date hardware, 5 years isn't that old for a laptop. I still occasionally use a laptop I bought back in 2008. The battery is shot, but otherwise it works fine for the tasks I use it for. The end of extended support for Windows 7 isn't until 01/14/20, so you could still get some use out of your current laptop if you decide to do the factory reset option. Hopefully by the time 2020 rolls around a lot of the bugs with Windows 10 will be resolved and you can buy a new laptop that you won't have any hardware/software issues with.

Alternatively you could buy a new laptop now, but you may still have printing problems because of hardware compatibility issues with Windows 10.

Between the two options, I think doing a factory reset is a less risky option.

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Hyperborea
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by Hyperborea » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:41 am

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:58 pm
Every time a "windows versus Mac" debate starts there is a lot of information, misinformation and resulting debate.
There is only a SINGLE FACT that everyone on both sides of the debate always agree on.
If you buy an Apple you will be paying more :)
The last company that I worked for before retiring last year was a major computer company (not Apple) with highly tech savvy employees and Windows machines were essentially forbidden unless you had a compelling business need (i.e. developing software for Windows). Other than that everybody was on Mac, Linux, and ChromeOS. There were major security concerns about the Windows platform.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by DaftInvestor » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:57 am

Hyperborea wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:41 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:58 pm
Every time a "windows versus Mac" debate starts there is a lot of information, misinformation and resulting debate.
There is only a SINGLE FACT that everyone on both sides of the debate always agree on.
If you buy an Apple you will be paying more :)
The last company that I worked for before retiring last year was a major computer company (not Apple) with highly tech savvy employees and Windows machines were essentially forbidden unless you had a compelling business need (i.e. developing software for Windows). Other than that everybody was on Mac, Linux, and ChromeOS. There were major security concerns about the Windows platform.
Does the "major computer company" compete in any shape or form with Microsoft?
Either they aren't really "highly tech savvy" or its just a political excuse. More than likely it is the latter especially if the company competes with Microsoft in some shape or form.
What my company does is build a special "neutered" version of Windows for its employees - many of the normal ports that can be exploited are closed. We've NEVER had an incident. Years ago I worked for another large computer company that was very anti-Windows as they competed heavily with Microsoft in a number of areas (and had at least one open anti-trust lawsuit) and even they understood that employees needed Windows - they too had a neutered version of Windows they rolled out. This company I worked for would publicly state that it did't allow employees to use Windows "because of security concerns" - this was really more about marketing and bad-mouthing Microsoft than it was about a having a true-concern.

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by Hyperborea » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:18 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:57 am
Hyperborea wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:41 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:58 pm
Every time a "windows versus Mac" debate starts there is a lot of information, misinformation and resulting debate.
There is only a SINGLE FACT that everyone on both sides of the debate always agree on.
If you buy an Apple you will be paying more :)
The last company that I worked for before retiring last year was a major computer company (not Apple) with highly tech savvy employees and Windows machines were essentially forbidden unless you had a compelling business need (i.e. developing software for Windows). Other than that everybody was on Mac, Linux, and ChromeOS. There were major security concerns about the Windows platform.
Does the "major computer company" compete in any shape or form with Microsoft?
Either they aren't really "highly tech savvy" or its just a political excuse. More than likely it is the latter especially if the company competes with Microsoft in some shape or form.
What my company does is build a special "neutered" version of Windows for its employees - many of the normal ports that can be exploited are closed. We've NEVER had an incident. Years ago I worked for another large computer company that was very anti-Windows as they competed heavily with Microsoft in a number of areas (and had at least one open anti-trust lawsuit) and even they understood that employees needed Windows - they too had a neutered version of Windows they rolled out. This company I worked for would publicly state that it did't allow employees to use Windows "because of security concerns" - this was really more about marketing and bad-mouthing Microsoft than it was about a having a true-concern.
I'm not going to go far down this rathole but is there a tech company anywhere on the planet that Microsoft hasn't tried to compete with in some way or other? It's a pretty easy way to attempt to dismiss the security issues. I guess the companies that compete with Apple would also then forbid the use of their machines, right? Guess again. It's not the messenger, it's the message.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by DaftInvestor » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:22 pm

Hyperborea wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:18 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:57 am
Hyperborea wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:41 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:58 pm
Every time a "windows versus Mac" debate starts there is a lot of information, misinformation and resulting debate.
There is only a SINGLE FACT that everyone on both sides of the debate always agree on.
If you buy an Apple you will be paying more :)
The last company that I worked for before retiring last year was a major computer company (not Apple) with highly tech savvy employees and Windows machines were essentially forbidden unless you had a compelling business need (i.e. developing software for Windows). Other than that everybody was on Mac, Linux, and ChromeOS. There were major security concerns about the Windows platform.
Does the "major computer company" compete in any shape or form with Microsoft?
Either they aren't really "highly tech savvy" or its just a political excuse. More than likely it is the latter especially if the company competes with Microsoft in some shape or form.
What my company does is build a special "neutered" version of Windows for its employees - many of the normal ports that can be exploited are closed. We've NEVER had an incident. Years ago I worked for another large computer company that was very anti-Windows as they competed heavily with Microsoft in a number of areas (and had at least one open anti-trust lawsuit) and even they understood that employees needed Windows - they too had a neutered version of Windows they rolled out. This company I worked for would publicly state that it did't allow employees to use Windows "because of security concerns" - this was really more about marketing and bad-mouthing Microsoft than it was about a having a true-concern.
I'm not going to go far down this rathole but is there a tech company anywhere on the planet that Microsoft hasn't tried to compete with in some way or other? It's a pretty easy way to attempt to dismiss the security issues. I guess the companies that compete with Apple would also then forbid the use of their machines, right? Guess again. It's not the messenger, it's the message.
No one likes to spend money with a competitor if they can avoid it but this is especially true if a large portion of their revenue is dependent upon taking business away from the competitor. Sun Microsystems is another example - they forbade their employees to use any Microsoft OS or Office (had everyone using Star-Office) but after they won a $20M settlement from Microsoft back in 2002 they relaxed the rules a bit (they also had been telling employees about "security concerns" with Windows). I worked for another company that competed with Cisco - we were told that we couldn't use Cisco Webex due to "security concerns" - something about someone being able to break into a web-meeting. The real reason was our CEO couldn't bring himself to writing a check to Cisco.
Believe what you want. Please just don't believe that there isn't Malware targeted for MacOS or Linux. Nor should you believe that Microsoft doesn't take security as seriously as Apple or the open-source community (note that Equifax wasn't a Microsoft breach - but due to a vulnerability with Apache - many of the server-side exploits you read about in the news turn out to be non-Microsoft - often Linux/Open-source vulnerabilities).
(As an aside - I was only mentioning product prices - your actually the one that started down this rathole)

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:30 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:48 am
Could be a lot of things. Now that your previous issue was resolved, are you noticing any performance issue beyond the error messages?

I hate to say it because I am not a fanboy, but you don't get that type of stuff with Apple products.
Just for the sake of covering all the bases, I might point out that, if the OP ever gets frustrated enough simply to chuck the laptop, before doing so it might make sense to give Linux Mint a try. Linux has been known to give new life to older hardware in the past, and after all, if the current OS is shot, and you're going to chunk the hardware anyway, whaddaya got to lose?
Anybody know why there's a 20-pound frozen turkey up in the light grid?

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by jebmke » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:34 pm

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:30 pm
aristotelian wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:48 am
Could be a lot of things. Now that your previous issue was resolved, are you noticing any performance issue beyond the error messages?

I hate to say it because I am not a fanboy, but you don't get that type of stuff with Apple products.
Just for the sake of covering all the bases, I might point out that, if the OP ever gets frustrated enough simply to chuck the laptop, before doing so it might make sense to give Linux Mint a try. Linux has been known to give new life to older hardware in the past, and after all, if the current OS is shot, and you're going to chunk the hardware anyway, whaddaya got to lose?
Certainly a viable option. If the hardware is good it should support Windows or Mint. I have run both on similar hardware. I like Mint. I run it in a virtual machine for browsing. It works as well as anything for basic work. I think it also comes with an open office package so even basic stuff like word processing and spreadsheets can be supported in Mint.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:37 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:06 pm
OP is looking for a new laptop. You build your own laptops? A Windows desktop is reasonable. I really like the Intel NUC. I still prefer Macbook Pros over anything Windows has to offer. Linux has limitations with what programs it can run and MacOS is based on Linux.
Nitpick: no, it is not. MacOS is based on BSD.
Anybody know why there's a 20-pound frozen turkey up in the light grid?

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by aristotelian » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:39 pm

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:30 pm
Just for the sake of covering all the bases, I might point out that, if the OP ever gets frustrated enough simply to chuck the laptop, before doing so it might make sense to give Linux Mint a try. Linux has been known to give new life to older hardware in the past, and after all, if the current OS is shot, and you're going to chunk the hardware anyway, whaddaya got to lose?
+1, I am a big fan of Linux Mint/Ubuntu, but it is a learning curve and based on OP he likes simplicity and wants the computer to "just work", in which case Mac is probably the way to go. I have Ubuntu on two computers in my house.

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by inbox788 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:09 pm

jebmke wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:55 am
Would also be helpful to know how the system is used. If all I did was browsing and very simple "office type" work I would look seriously at a Chromebook and do all the office work in the cloud.
OP, you may not need to buy a new laptop or Chromebook. Give free Home Cloud Ready live USB a try on your current laptop, which is very similar to a Chromebook.

https://www.neverware.com/freedownload

This is a good time to re-evaluate the way you use your laptop. I've drifted away from being a heavy local program based user (i.e. needing Windows, MacOS, or Linux) to mostly web/cloud based, where everything I do now pretty much can be done in a browser. How much is being done with either can be variable. If you like local email program or app that has more features or offline access, then you may need a specific OS, but I moved to web based email a long time ago, and I can use pretty much any computer or browser.

Chromebooks are great in that they require virtually no maintenance. And if something goes wrong, you just powerwash it (reset to factor condition) and start over. Only takes a few minutes. Or if you need a new Chromebook, it's easy to switch. And much of what I use is the same inside a browser, whether it's Chrome or other.

I recently discovered Cloud Ready, which is a Chromebook clone (ChromeOS/Chromium based). It's about 80-90% compatible with my Chromebook. I've used it from a live USB drive at first with good success. Then I installed it as a dual boot on my Windows 10 laptop and it's working well. Finally, I dusted off a 10 year old laptop that was running Vista and was simply going to a clean reinstall of Vista, but getting updates, even service packs was limiting given the end of life. So I installed Cloud Ready on it as the only OS, and so far it's been running very well too.

You need an 8 or 16GB USB drive to install it. So you might as well try it off the USB first and see how well it goes. I expect a 5 year old system to be a great candidate for Cloud Ready.

BTW, if printing is your problem, unless you have a newer Airprint printer, avoid Chromebooks (printing is definitely a weakness). And OP, if you're getting thousands of the same error or warning, it may be insignificant, but if you're getting a thousand different errors, then something is truly wrong.

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Re: Time for a new laptop?

Post by DetroitRick » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:58 pm

As a number of others have mentioned, the mere presence of errors and warnings in those logs is common. They can be anything from trivial, to things that have already been repaired, to serious. While I use those logs once in a while to find the source of a problem, I find them far more time-wasting than useful. One could spend a lifetime deciphering everything in most of those log entries.

I would base your decision on how the machine is running and whether it serves your needs. Not on those logs.

But 2 things before giving up - check Windows Reliability History to see if there really are things that need attention. It's in the Control Panel, or easier yet, just type "Reliability History" in your (Cortana) search box. The resulting report, which will go back in time a bit depending on setup, will show important failures as well as routine updates and reconfigurations. It's a bit more user-friendly.

Worst case, before giving up, you can always use the Reset (part of the Windows Recovery function) to reinstall Windows. You will first be able to choose whether or not to keep your personal files.

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