Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Locked
munemaker
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by munemaker » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:01 am

I noticed a large used car dealer I have dealt with suddenly has about 15 used VW diesels (2015s) of various models in stock. Strange they have not had any for years, and now they have so many at one time.

At first glance, the prices seem good. Does anyone know what the financial implications of buying a VW diesel would be? Things I am thinking of: 1) Is there some sort of buyback or update in effect or is that done? 2) Would I be responsible for having updates to the vehicle emission system done, or could I just ignore that? 3) Presumably service would continue to be available through VW dealers and the aftermarket?

emoore
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:16 pm

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by emoore » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:18 am

I believe the cars that VW can sell that are diesel have already at least had software modifications to come closer to meeting the emissions. Not sure if there is going to be any hardware updates. VW cannot sell any unmodified diesel cars in the US.

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 6794
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:36 am

How many different ways can the world tell you that those cars are not good for the air that you and your loved ones breathe?

Valuethinker
Posts: 33172
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:59 am

munemaker wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:01 am
I noticed a large used car dealer I have dealt with suddenly has about 15 used VW diesels (2015s) of various models in stock. Strange they have not had any for years, and now they have so many at one time.

At first glance, the prices seem good. Does anyone know what the financial implications of buying a VW diesel would be? Things I am thinking of: 1) Is there some sort of buyback or update in effect or is that done? 2) Would I be responsible for having updates to the vehicle emission system done, or could I just ignore that? 3) Presumably service would continue to be available through VW dealers and the aftermarket?
I believe all the settlements have been done, but check VW America website?

I assume you would be responsible for 2

Yes, although this sounds the death knell of VW diesels in USA. But presumably they will keep supporting existing ones-- not sure what their liability is under this?

The cars are cheap but I expect they will continue to have high depreciation. If you live in a pollution sensitive area (basically I am thinking California and Denver CO but there may be others) you might have concerns about future restrictions.

Jack FFR1846
Posts: 5762
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:05 am

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:06 am

If you're not dead set on diesel, look at pricing on new VWs. I've considered a GTi for some time now and see as much as $6250 from the factory off a new one. On the low end, $5k off a stripped Jetta, so near $12k. If I were buying a car right now, I wouldn't care all that much about what a 46 mpg diesel puts out compared to all the Kenworth and Mack trucks out there (not to mention all the John Deere tractors creating food for us).
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

manuelku
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by manuelku » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:07 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:36 am
How many different ways can the world tell you that those cars are not good for the air that you and your loved ones breathe?
I am much more concerned about the coal powered cars - like the teslas and the plugin electrics I see driven by the rich and in substantial part paid for by subsidies.

OTOH the reliability of VW cars - diesel or not - would give me pause. I'd make sure to get a good price and expect big maintenance bills.

clutchied
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by clutchied » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:37 am

manuelku wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:07 am
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:36 am
How many different ways can the world tell you that those cars are not good for the air that you and your loved ones breathe?
I am much more concerned about the coal powered cars - like the teslas and the plugin electrics I see driven by the rich and in substantial part paid for by subsidies.
You shouldn't be. The "coal powered" argument is a blatant fabrication pushed by a lobbying organization that doesn't care about you or your health. Coal powered 39% of the USA in 2014, 33% in 2015 and 30% in 2016. What do you think it will be in 10 years?
Coal will continue to decline in the US because people are demanding cleaner air and cleaner transportation.

EV's are facilitating that transition and solar continues to grow. 39% of all new generation in 2016 was from solar. That's a larger increase than natural gas @ 29%. Solar is still small but will continue to grow.


Even if your argument was 100% coal powered EVs(which is absurd)they would still be more efficient than internal combustion cars and cleaner than diesels.

So if your argument doesn't hold up @ 100% coal usage and we're currently @ 30% or less. How do you feel about that? Are you willing to accept new information or will you be duped, hoodwinked, bamboozled, flimflammed? Made a fool of and laughed at?

Don't be that person.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_powe ... ted_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_pow ... ted_States
https://greentransportation.info/energy ... icity.html

barnaclebob
Posts: 2221
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by barnaclebob » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:43 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:06 am
If I were buying a car right now, I wouldn't care all that much about what a 46 mpg diesel puts out compared to all the Kenworth and Mack trucks out there (not to mention all the John Deere tractors creating food for us).
This is poor logic.

User avatar
telemark
Posts: 2057
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 am

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by telemark » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:16 am

With a little looking you can probably also find good deals on gasoline VWs with a PZEV rating: VW sells these in all states, not just the ones that require it. These are not zero emissions but they're pretty close to it. I almost bought a 2012 Jetta last spring but decided to wait a bit longer.

Slacker
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by Slacker » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:26 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:06 am
...I wouldn't care all that much about what a 46 mpg diesel puts out compared to all the Kenworth and Mack trucks out there (not to mention all the John Deere tractors creating food for us).
First, pollution is additive and the effects get progressively worse as more pollution is added into a local system.
Second, you won't be getting 46mpg because those vehicles *should* be modified to get closer to the expected emissions which means a big hit in fuel economy on those diesel passenger vehicles.
Third, you should be demanding that your Senators and Representatives do something to improve the quality of air you and your family breathes as polluted by said "kenworth and Mack trucks" instead of just taking the defeatist attitude of "well, they already have one vehicle polluting so I might as well just suck on a dirty exhaust pipe".

clutchied
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by clutchied » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:27 am

telemark wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:16 am
With a little looking you can probably also find good deals on gasoline VWs with a PZEV rating: VW sells these in all states, not just the ones that require it. These are not zero emissions but they're pretty close to it. I almost bought a 2012 Jetta last spring but decided to wait a bit longer.
Do we believe their PZEV rating anymore? I need to do some research on that. I thought PZEV was a self cert just like diesel.

sport
Posts: 6081
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by sport » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:36 am

manuelku wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:07 am
OTOH the reliability of VW cars - diesel or not - would give me pause. I'd make sure to get a good price and expect big maintenance bills.
I would rather pay the price for a Honda or Toyota. I believe that they will be less expensive to own, even including a higher initial cost. In addition, you would be less likely to have the inconvenience associated with lower reliability.

mmarreco
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:54 pm

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by mmarreco » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:59 am

munemaker wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:01 am
I noticed a large used car dealer I have dealt with suddenly has about 15 used VW diesels (2015s) of various models in stock. Strange they have not had any for years, and now they have so many at one time.

At first glance, the prices seem good. Does anyone know what the financial implications of buying a VW diesel would be? Things I am thinking of: 1) Is there some sort of buyback or update in effect or is that done? 2) Would I be responsible for having updates to the vehicle emission system done, or could I just ignore that? 3) Presumably service would continue to be available through VW dealers and the aftermarket?
Those vehicles are likely being sold by VW at wholesale auctions after being bought back and repaired. You can check the status of the repairs by entering the specific VIN number here:
https://vwdiesellookup.com/

User avatar
telemark
Posts: 2057
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 am

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by telemark » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:12 pm

clutchied wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:27 am
telemark wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:16 am
With a little looking you can probably also find good deals on gasoline VWs with a PZEV rating: VW sells these in all states, not just the ones that require it. These are not zero emissions but they're pretty close to it. I almost bought a 2012 Jetta last spring but decided to wait a bit longer.
Do we believe their PZEV rating anymore? I need to do some research on that. I thought PZEV was a self cert just like diesel.
Good question. I'd think that if they were gaming it someone would have noticed by now, but who knows?

Valuethinker
Posts: 33172
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:35 pm

manuelku wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:07 am
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:36 am
How many different ways can the world tell you that those cars are not good for the air that you and your loved ones breathe?
I am much more concerned about the coal powered cars - like the teslas and the plugin electrics I see driven by the rich and in substantial part paid for by subsidies.

OTOH the reliability of VW cars - diesel or not - would give me pause. I'd make sure to get a good price and expect big maintenance bills.
That's a red herring argument and we have kicked it to death here many times.

An exception would be if you lived in Appalachia or Ohio-- where the grid is much closer to 100% coal. But generally in the US it's now about 30%, and it's a lot lower in some places. Of course, if you select a supplier that reinvests into renewables, you are contributing to cleaning up the grid.

The capacity which runs at peak tends to be gas-fired. On Mercury, Nox & Particulates gas is negligible compared to coal, on core pollutants about half (c. 1050 g/ kwhr for coal, c. 500-520 for natural gas combined cycle).

Similarly in low periods nuclear and renewables tend to predominate. It's the mid merit hours that are coal-heavy, and, again, only in some places. As solar starts to get significant on the grid, that means the pollution during daylight hours drops. I tend to do my washing on weekends in the day for that reason (having been say zero as little as 6-7 years ago, solar is now often 10% or more of UK power production at mid day).

BackOfTheNet
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:24 pm

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by BackOfTheNet » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:55 pm

I think there are some deals to be had on the V6 diesels. Something like this:

http://www.audistratham.com/used/Audi/2 ... e=cars.com

VW is currently on the clock to develop a fix for these vehicles. If they can't, they are required to buy them back. The vehicle above will be bought back for between $54k and $64k.

If they do come up with a fix, as the owner you will be entitled to either ~$5k or ~$10k depending on the previous owner.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/do ... it%203.pdf

clutchied
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by clutchied » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:18 pm

telemark wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:12 pm
clutchied wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:27 am
telemark wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:16 am
With a little looking you can probably also find good deals on gasoline VWs with a PZEV rating: VW sells these in all states, not just the ones that require it. These are not zero emissions but they're pretty close to it. I almost bought a 2012 Jetta last spring but decided to wait a bit longer.
Do we believe their PZEV rating anymore? I need to do some research on that. I thought PZEV was a self cert just like diesel.
Good question. I'd think that if they were gaming it someone would have noticed by now, but who knows?
the diesel fiasco only happened b/c some green junkies were trying to prove how much better diesel was and they uncovered this massive fraud.

Jeff Albertson
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:11 pm
Location: Springfield

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by Jeff Albertson » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:20 pm

FWIW, yesterday Bloomberg looked at the “life-cycle” emissions of gas vs electric, concentrating on China due to their recent announcement to end sales of fossil-fuel-powered vehicles. Bloomberg gathered the data and did the calculations comparing gas and electric. Their conclusion -
When it comes to carbon emissions, though, the argument that electric vehicles are as bad or worse than those burning gasoline is already hard to square with today's numbers -- and that will get harder over time.
https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articl ... ll-cleaner

User avatar
prudent
Moderator
Posts: 4809
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by prudent » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:25 pm

Topic is locked for moderator review.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 41078
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Time to buy a used VW Diesel?

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:47 pm

I removed a few posts related to the existence (or not) of climate change. The thread will remain locked. See: Personal Consumer Issues

Note that this subforum has a much lower threshold for locking or removing posts than the financial and investing subforums.
Also see: Non-actionable (Trolling) Topics
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

Locked