Nature of fraud (or, what I was afraid of)

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
User avatar
CAsage
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:25 pm

Nature of fraud (or, what I was afraid of)

Post by CAsage » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:23 am

With all the current discussion and perpetual release of our personal data, leading to many more fraud opportunities.... I was trying to understand exactly what I had to protect against. This would help me feel that I had taken enough measures (freezes, two-factor login, alerts, limiting accounts et al) to minimize my personal risk. I found these articles on the nature and scope of credit fraud informative - if there is a updated article somewhere, please share!

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card- ... s-1276.php

https://www.creditdonkey.com/credit-car ... stics.html

SimonJester
Posts: 1249
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:39 pm

Re: Nature of fraud (or, what I was afraid of)

Post by SimonJester » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:53 pm

Credit card fraud is not really that big of a deal for the end consumer. You dispute the charges and the bank eat it. Its other identity theft / fraud that is a much bigger pain. Think about someone stealing your identity, duplicating IDs etc, then committing crimes and using your ID when caught. They then skip out on bail and you now have a warrant for your arrest in another state.

How about if someone takes out a few payday loans in your name and SSN then skips out. Those places do not often pull against a credit agency so freezing your reports does nothing to stop that.

Or they goto the DR / ER use your ID and SSN and skip out, now the DR / hospital send your to collections.

Those types of ID theft are much more of a pain to clean up then credit card fraud.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

btenny
Posts: 4034
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Nature of fraud (or, what I was afraid of)

Post by btenny » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:52 pm

In my experience doctors offices now take a picture of me when I go there if I am a new patient. They require me to show them other ID like a drivers license and then they compare the pictures. They repeat this check sometimes when I go back after a long time lapse. They did the same thing when I went for outpatient surgery back when. So I think there is a very small chance that medical fraud can occur. Plus if it does occur I am pretty sure you can ask them to forget the bills as they were not diligent in verifying their patients.

I do not know how payday loan places work so I will not comment.

As for getting arrested or stopped by the police I know those organizations will demand government issued picture ID in some form. So the fraudster will have to get a drivers license or other picture ID in my name as well as have my SS numbers and so forth. I am not sure how hard or easy this is to do. Irregardless it is total ID theft and a lot more effort than most fraudsters put out. So I think this risk is low for now.

The IRS is doing all they can to stop the fraud they are seeing and we need to file taxes as early as possible to help them. Likewise I plan to minimize tax refunds or taxes owed so any long waits should not be a big issue if things do go bad.

I have experienced credit card fraud several times over the years. I have never lost a dime. The banks were fast in most cases and caught it before I did. I see no risk here as we are diligent in minding these cards and the resulting bills.

So I see the situation as not that bad right now. I have my credit frozen and it has been for years. I had to unfreeze it for one day once. It was easy. I am also going to add two step authentication to my investing accounts soon. TBD what flavor but I see this as not too much trouble or cost for the extra security. Plus if I do this two step stuff I think I get a bunch of insurance that will cover the accounts.


Good Luck.

oxothuk
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:35 pm

Re: Nature of fraud (or, what I was afraid of)

Post by oxothuk » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:21 pm

btenny wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:52 pm
So I see the situation as not that bad right now.
Just because the cost of fraud is hidden in the prices of goods and services rather than charged to you direclty doesn't mean that it isn't a big problem.

bberris
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:44 am

Re: Nature of fraud (or, what I was afraid of)

Post by bberris » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:59 pm

Credit card fraud amounted to 0.3 % of $ transactions in 2015. I'm guessing uncollectible debt is much higher than that.
Also the much ballyhooed convert to chip did not change the fraud numbers much; just moved it to card-not-present.

I have been impressed with the ability of the credit cards to detect fraud and stop transactions, while allowing legitimate ones to go through.

Retailers also have to deal with the cost of cash being stolen, lost, or pilfered by employees. This is also passed on to the consumer.

azurekep
Posts: 764
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:16 pm

Re: Nature of fraud (or, what I was afraid of)

Post by azurekep » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:34 pm

bberris wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:59 pm


Retailers also have to deal with the cost of cash being stolen, lost, or pilfered by employees. This is also passed on to the consumer.
They must not have much theft at the dollar stores. ;)

runner540
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Nature of fraud (or, what I was afraid of)

Post by runner540 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:32 am

btenny wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:52 pm
In my experience doctors offices now take a picture of me when I go there if I am a new patient. They require me to show them other ID like a drivers license and then they compare the pictures. They repeat this check sometimes when I go back after a long time lapse. They did the same thing when I went for outpatient surgery back when. So I think there is a very small chance that medical fraud can occur. Plus if it does occur I am pretty sure you can ask them to forget the bills as they were not diligent in verifying their patients.

I do not know how payday loan places work so I will not comment.

As for getting arrested or stopped by the police I know those organizations will demand government issued picture ID in some form. So the fraudster will have to get a drivers license or other picture ID in my name as well as have my SS numbers and so forth. I am not sure how hard or easy this is to do. Irregardless it is total ID theft and a lot more effort than most fraudsters put out. So I think this risk is low for now.

The IRS is doing all they can to stop the fraud they are seeing and we need to file taxes as early as possible to help them. Likewise I plan to minimize tax refunds or taxes owed so any long waits should not be a big issue if things do go bad.

I have experienced credit card fraud several times over the years. I have never lost a dime. The banks were fast in most cases and caught it before I did. I see no risk here as we are diligent in minding these cards and the resulting bills.

So I see the situation as not that bad right now. I have my credit frozen and it has been for years. I had to unfreeze it for one day once. It was easy. I am also going to add two step authentication to my investing accounts soon. TBD what flavor but I see this as not too much trouble or cost for the extra security. Plus if I do this two step stuff I think I get a bunch of insurance that will cover the accounts.


Good Luck.
Btenny, it sounds like you feel pretty secure having taken steps like freezing your credit. Please consider that while it may be difficult for you or someone else to commit fraud at your doctor's office, that does not prevent someone from taking your data (that potentially was just released) and getting care at a medical office that is less vigilant. Or, consider they may have a fake ID with their picture but your name for use at the doctor office or police station...and on and on. Some payday loans operations have moved online, so the data is all they need.

btenny
Posts: 4034
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Nature of fraud (or, what I was afraid of)

Post by btenny » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:58 am

Yes I know my Id can still be hacked and used for things and cause me a lot of grief. But I do not see any way out of this situation currently. The data is just out there and the crooks can get it so I am at risk. I guess this is just a part of modern living. So I am not going to set around worrying about the issues. I also know that I am going to move to true two factor authentication for my high value assets even though it will cause me issues. That plus freezing my credit is all I see that can be done. Any other suggestions?

Good Luck.

User avatar
Pajamas
Posts: 2264
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:32 pm

Re: Nature of fraud (or, what I was afraid of)

Post by Pajamas » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:30 am

bberris wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:59 pm
Credit card fraud amounted to 0.3 % of $ transactions in 2015.
That percentage makes it sound insignificant, but in fact tens of millions of people in the U.S. are affected each year by credit card fraud and many millions more (supposedly 15.4 million in 2016) by various forms of identity theft. That's each year, so the total numbers are much higher.

If someone uses your identity to access government benefits or to assume your identity for work, drivers license, etc., you can be dealing with the fallout for decades. There are people on the no-fly list just because their name is similar to someone else's. Imagine what might happen if someone uses your identity and actually commits crimes. Credit card fraud is probably the least concern because of the limited liability.

Post Reply