Coyote Defense

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lazydavid
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Coyote Defense

Post by lazydavid » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am

Our suburban neighborhood has either had a recent influx of coyotes, or they have become dramatically more active. We now regularly see at least one wandering the streets during the day. A few days ago one killed a neighbor's dog in their backyard, while the neighbors were present. My dog at 22 lbs is towards the upper edge of what a lone coyote would probably attempt to eat, but I want a little more assurance than that.

For our last few walks, I've been carrying a large baseball bat, but it's a bit unwieldy and probably only a matter of time before the neighbors start looking at me funny. :P What are my best options? Presumably the village would frown upon firearms. A little googling suggests either bear repellent or a collapsible baton. I figured some of my fellow bogleheads might have direct experience.

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bottlecap
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by bottlecap » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:51 am

I would say pepper spray, but do your own research to see if that will work.

The other option is a bb or pellet gun. Quiet and provides some discouragement.

However, I can't imagine a coyote would approach you with or without your dog. These are not ferocious animals. They are usually looking for small prey, like your dog - when it's alone.

JT

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Pajamas
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Pajamas » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:53 am

Coyotes don't usually attack adults. Don't let your dog out in the yard unless you are with it and walk it on a leash. Cats are very susceptible to coyotes but shouldn't be free-roaming anyway.

Coyotes can be frightened off by loud noises. Get a loud whistle or a small air horn, which you could carry in a holster when you walk your dog.

Lots of good advice here, especially on some of the pages linked to at the bottom:

http://m.humanesociety.org/animals/coyo ... eople.html

livesoft
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by livesoft » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:24 pm

One thing is to have a neighborhood meeting and try to get people to stop putting food out for stray cats, squirrels, rats, dogs, trash pandas, mini-bears, etc.

Besides bear spray, I suppose you could get a second, bigger dog to protect your first dog.
Last edited by livesoft on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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heartwood
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by heartwood » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:35 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:24 pm
One thing is to have a neighborhood meeting and try to get people to stop putting food out for stray cats, squirrels, rats, dogs, trash pandas, mini-bears, etc.
I lead a sheltered life! Never heard of trash pandas (http://www.businessinsider.com/trash-pa ... l-photos-1) aka raccoons.

or mini-bears (apparently aka chipmunks)

On the original topic, last year there were at least two instances of rabid coyotes in my state, one attacked a suburban gardener, requiring rabies vaccine. I second the idea of trying to get people to stop feeding strays.

sport
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by sport » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:38 pm

Does your suburban community have an animal warden? If no, this function should be started. If yes, he/she needs to get to work.

rterickson
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by rterickson » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:07 pm

Carrying a golf club will get you fewer funny looks than a baseball bat.

Yooper
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Yooper » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:12 pm

If you feel more comfortable carrying something then think about this instead of baseball bat (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/11525 ... aton-black). I've got a family member who carries one while walking his dog (he had problems in the past with other non-leashed dogs) and swears by it. The 42" version doesn't get much attention and certainly is less obvious than a baseball bat, although much more effective.

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rustymutt
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by rustymutt » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:13 pm

We've got coyotes all over. I've heard of 2 dogs being ate in the past 2 months alone. Keeping them inside a fenced yard is the first defense. They won't attack a dog in the company of people, and on a tether. I've had them jump right over the top of me while turkey calling, and I'm not sure which was more frightened, me or the coyote. :beer
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lazydavid
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by lazydavid » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:34 pm

rterickson wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:07 pm
Carrying a golf club will get you fewer funny looks than a baseball bat.
Yeah but then I'd have to own a golf club :D

Thanks for all the responses everyone. To be clear, I'm not concerned about the coyote attacking me, as I haven't seen any signs that they're rabid. My dog is always leashed, and I'm aware that in theory they should not attack her while I'm close by. The concern is the neighbor's dog being killed while they were in the backyard with it--the dog was NOT unattended. Obviously I wasn't there, so I'm not sure how far away they were at the time. Backyards in my neighborhood are not huge, typically in the 1600-2000 sqft range.

From what I've read, pepper spray is typically quite effective unless it's windy. If you're downwind of the animal, you could wind up just blinding yourself. I'm leaning towards the whistle as the primary deterrent, and acclimating my dog to it in advance so she doesn't freak out; and then a holstered baton as backup. I'll also look into the sjambok, which I've seen recommended elsewhere as well.

denovo
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by denovo » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:40 pm

lazydavid wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:34 pm
rterickson wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:07 pm
Carrying a golf club will get you fewer funny looks than a baseball bat.
Yeah but then I'd have to own a golf club :D

Thanks for all the responses everyone. To be clear, I'm not concerned about the coyote attacking me, as I haven't seen any signs that they're rabid. My dog is always leashed, and I'm aware that in theory they should not attack her while I'm close by. The concern is the neighbor's dog being killed while they were in the backyard with it--the dog was NOT unattended.

You're fine when the dog is on leash. They will not get near adult-sized humans. Simply don't let your dog in the backyard unless you can see the dog at all times, never leave it unattended in the backyard.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

jebmke
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by jebmke » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:42 pm

rterickson wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:07 pm
Carrying a golf club will get you fewer funny looks than a baseball bat.
Take a 2-iron. They aren't good for anything but clubbing something.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Pajamas
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Pajamas » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:42 pm

denovo wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:40 pm
lazydavid wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:34 pm
rterickson wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:07 pm
Carrying a golf club will get you fewer funny looks than a baseball bat.
Yeah but then I'd have to own a golf club :D

Thanks for all the responses everyone. To be clear, I'm not concerned about the coyote attacking me, as I haven't seen any signs that they're rabid. My dog is always leashed, and I'm aware that in theory they should not attack her while I'm close by. The concern is the neighbor's dog being killed while they were in the backyard with it--the dog was NOT unattended.

You're fine when the dog is on leash. They will not get near adult-sized humans. Simply don't let your dog in the backyard unless you can see the dog at all times, never leave it unattended in the backyard.
The concern is the neighbor's dog being killed while they were in the backyard with it--the dog was NOT unattended.

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celia
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by celia » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:55 pm

In my area, coyotes are protected. You are not allowed to kill or injure them, unless a pet or person is being attacked. After all, they were here before the people were and we are thus encroaching on "their" land. They are just looking for food and water. They will eat practically anything that is edible, so everyone's trash and pet food dishes need to be covered/removed. Also cover the crawl holes to under the houses, as they are known to give birth and care for their young in a sheltered place like that.

They won't attack people who are bigger than they are. So just keep your small kids near you, even in your own back yard. (They can jump 6 ft fences.) What we have been trained to do (by the city) is to stay away from them, but scare them away by making load noises and jumping up and down, and waiving your hands all over. Act like you are crazy, but don't hurt them. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MOnDIx71Q0
Last edited by celia on Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

denovo
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by denovo » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:03 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:42 pm
denovo wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:40 pm
lazydavid wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:34 pm
rterickson wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:07 pm
Carrying a golf club will get you fewer funny looks than a baseball bat.
Yeah but then I'd have to own a golf club :D

Thanks for all the responses everyone. To be clear, I'm not concerned about the coyote attacking me, as I haven't seen any signs that they're rabid. My dog is always leashed, and I'm aware that in theory they should not attack her while I'm close by. The concern is the neighbor's dog being killed while they were in the backyard with it--the dog was NOT unattended.

You're fine when the dog is on leash. They will not get near adult-sized humans. Simply don't let your dog in the backyard unless you can see the dog at all times, never leave it unattended in the backyard.
The concern is the neighbor's dog being killed while they were in the backyard with it--the dog was NOT unattended.
I'd be interested in the details of that and the definition of "attended". If the human was within a few feet of the doggo, I don't see the coyote attacking.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

lazydavid
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by lazydavid » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:07 pm

denovo wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:03 pm
I'd be interested in the details of that and the definition of "attended". If the human was within a few feet of the doggo, I don't see the coyote attacking.
I would be interested as well, but I can't exactly ask, because I don't know them personally. They live two doors down from a friend of mine, one block over from where I am. I admitted as much in my post that I didn't know the specific circumstances, just that 2 humans + dog were all in the backyard, and that our backyards aren't very large (1600-2000 sqft). But I don't know their relative locations within the space at the time.

iamlucky13
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by iamlucky13 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:10 pm

lazydavid wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
What are my best options? Presumably the village would frown upon firearms.
I'm not sure how seriously you were considering a firearm and if you're committed to learning about safely carrying and storing one, and learning your local laws.

However, for the last point in particular - it is a very common law in developed areas to prohibit the discharge of firearms except for defensive purposes. So trying to reduce your coyote population pre-emptively is probably not an option in your suburban area.

The best way to reduce the risk is likely going to be learn about and help educate your neighbors on ways to reduce the appeal of the neighborhood to coyotes - such as reducing food sources and hazing.

Also, keeping a closer than normal eye on your pet when it's outdoors around sun-up and sun-down is wise.

fposte
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by fposte » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:17 pm

denovo wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:03 pm

I'd be interested in the details of that and the definition of "attended". If the human was within a few feet of the doggo, I don't see the coyote attacking.
A quick Google suggests that it happens, though, and not as infrequently as you might think. And if it was a small dog, it was more vulnerable both to being fatally injured by a quick bite and to being carried off at speed.

Teague
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Teague » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:36 pm

Unfenced neighborhood dogs would pose more of a danger on your walks than a coyote, or at least that's the way it is here, and we do have plenty of coyotes.

Rather than carry something that screams "weapon," I carry a simple walking stick. A 1.25 inch poplar dowel makes a nice compromise in weight/strength between pine and a true hardwood. Readily available at Lowes, etc. You can leave it unfinished, or sand/stain/paint it to your taste.
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lazydavid
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by lazydavid » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:41 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:10 pm
lazydavid wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
What are my best options? Presumably the village would frown upon firearms.
I'm not sure how seriously you were considering a firearm and if you're committed to learning about safely carrying and storing one, and learning your local laws.

However, for the last point in particular - it is a very common law in developed areas to prohibit the discharge of firearms except for defensive purposes. So trying to reduce your coyote population pre-emptively is probably not an option in your suburban area.
It was 99% joking. To answer your question though, I've taken some safety courses over the past few years, but never purchased one. I will at some point, though not for this purpose. Discharge of a firearm is illegal in my village (shooting ranges excepted), though the statues do not make it clear how serious. My guess is it would be a misdemeanor if not aggravated and no property damage or injury was involved. And regardless of how this all turns out, I never had any intention of hunting or "thinning the herd". Purely defense of my pup.

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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Spirit Rider » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:51 pm

celia wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:55 pm
In my area, coyotes are protected. You are not allowed to kill or injure them, unless a pet or person is being attacked.
Even in the state of California coyotes are not a protected species. All you need is a hunting license. They are considered a fur bearing non-game animal. With no closed season and no bag limit.

Now if you live in one of the highly populated or enlightened cities/counties you may be prohibited from proactively acting to protect your family and pets. Generally as long as you are in an area where you can legally discharge an approved firearm with approved ammunition, you can shoot a coyote. Of course, everywhere you have the right of self-defense of yourself and others.

Here we subscribe to the three S's; Shoot, Shovel, Shut-up. This is what suppressors are for, except of course they are not legal in CA.

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Pajamas
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Pajamas » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:28 pm

lazydavid wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:07 pm


I would be interested as well, but I can't exactly ask, because I don't know them personally. They live two doors down from a friend of mine, one block over from where I am. I admitted as much in my post that I didn't know the specific circumstances, just that 2 humans + dog were all in the backyard, and that our backyards aren't very large (1600-2000 sqft). But I don't know their relative locations within the space at the time.
I'll bet if you knocked on their door and said you were a neighbor concerned about what happened because you have a dog, too, that they would be glad to give you the details.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:29 pm

Shotgun. If that's too big to lug around then Handgun.

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sergeant
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by sergeant » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:06 pm

Teague wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:36 pm
Unfenced neighborhood dogs would pose more of a danger on your walks than a coyote, or at least that's the way it is here, and we do have plenty of coyotes.

Rather than carry something that screams "weapon," I carry a simple walking stick. A 1.25 inch poplar dowel makes a nice compromise in weight/strength between pine and a true hardwood. Readily available at Lowes, etc. You can leave it unfinished, or sand/stain/paint it to your taste.
Excellent post! I love coyotes, they keep nuisance animal populations in check. Removing too many of them from an area allows lesser experienced and more dangerous coyotes to take over. When animal control was off duty we (police) were required to deal with the issue. I have lots of experience dealing with this.

You are far more likely to have a problem with an unleashed dog than a coyote. Coyotes do attack small dogs, sometimes within a few feet of the dog's owner. I have carried a walking stick for two decades and have used it a dozen times on attacking dogs with great success. I also carry a handgun which is reserved for much more dangerous predators.
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BolderBoy
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by BolderBoy » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:09 pm

Teague wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:36 pm
Rather than carry something that screams "weapon," I carry a simple walking stick
+1. That may be the best solution.

You could also consider something like this http://www.defenseproducts101.com/hot_s ... n_gun.html

This particular one has been discontinued. I'll tell you that when you press the button it makes a god-awful electrical noise that would scare off most anything. They may be illegal where you live.
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Raymond
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Raymond » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:48 pm

Yooper wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:12 pm
If you feel more comfortable carrying something then think about this instead of baseball bat (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/11525 ... aton-black). I've got a family member who carries one while walking his dog (he had problems in the past with other non-leashed dogs) and swears by it. The 42" version doesn't get much attention and certainly is less obvious than a baseball bat, although much more effective.
Excellent! Thanks for the information, just ordered three of the 42" version just now (one for each member of the family.)

I see coyotes here in suburban Dallas every so often, especially in the early morning.

At least they keep the rabbits down, but every so often one hears of a missing cat or small dog :(

It's the occasional free-running bigger dog that would more likely be a problem for people.
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by ddurrett896 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:07 pm

Suppressed 300 Blackout

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CAsage
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by CAsage » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:15 pm

Coyotes WILL attack small dogs on leashes being walked by smallish people. We had a twilight/dusk attack in a large nearby park, an older person walking a small dog. They are definitely moving back (!?) into suburban and urban areas - the California Science Center near downtown LA has a very interesting exhibit showing tracking, routes and other information on coyotes. I would hesitate to have a child walk a dog at night. Most areas have some nondeveloped areas nearby, which is where they mostly live, and they wander in town for dinner and exploring....
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rustymutt
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by rustymutt » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:17 pm

jebmke wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:42 pm
rterickson wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:07 pm
Carrying a golf club will get you fewer funny looks than a baseball bat.
Take a 2-iron. They aren't good for anything but clubbing something.

Mine is good for 250 yards.
I'm amazed at the wealth of Knowledge others gather, and share over a lifetime of learning. The mind is truly unique. It's nice when we use it!

littlebird
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by littlebird » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:09 pm

A human just being near a dog is not enough. My neighbor was in the habit of taking her tiny dog with her, unleashed, when going to the mailbox every afternoon about 4 o'clock. One day, a coyote hid alongside her house, and when the neighbor and her dog walked down the driveway, the coyote ran past, grabbed the little dog by the neck, without stopping, and ran away with it. Nearby is not enough. Small dogs must be carried, or be on a short leash accompanied by a human prepared to drive away a coyote.

Wakefield1
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Wakefield1 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:12 pm

sergeant wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:06 pm
Teague wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:36 pm
Unfenced neighborhood dogs would pose more of a danger on your walks than a coyote, or at least that's the way it is here, and we do have plenty of coyotes.

Rather than carry something that screams "weapon," I carry a simple walking stick. A 1.25 inch poplar dowel makes a nice compromise in weight/strength between pine and a true hardwood. Readily available at Lowes, etc. You can leave it unfinished, or sand/stain/paint it to your taste.
Excellent post! I love coyotes, they keep nuisance animal populations in check. Removing too many of them from an area allows lesser experienced and more dangerous coyotes to take over. When animal control was off duty we (police) were required to deal with the issue. I have lots of experience dealing with this.

You are far more likely to have a problem with an unleashed dog than a coyote. Coyotes do attack small dogs, sometimes within a few feet of the dog's owner. I have carried a walking stick for two decades and have used it a dozen times on attacking dogs with great success. I also carry a handgun which is reserved for much more dangerous predators.
In Arlington there is now an infestation of "rabbits",actually I think they are hares. Eating up all kinds of plants,sometimes attacking Rose,Chrysanthemum,destroying the Crocus,especially the more choice species. They have different behavior than regular wild rabbits or hares,don't exert themselves much if you approach,only moving a few feet away and only as fast as you approach them. Someone said the other day that in a mile or so run early in the AM he saw at least 50.
I suspect something,perhaps coyotes are going to move in here and start reproducing on a diet of these things.Cure worse than the disease? Or perhaps they will be found to carry Lyme disease or some other threat to man.

chmcnm
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by chmcnm » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:37 pm

There was a thread a few months ago about coyotes in LA. I'm more concerned about other dogs and bad drivers when I walk my dogs but we have coyotes nearby. They've left "presents" on porches in our neighborhood. That said, don't underestimate them, especially in packs and if they're hungry. I've known some hunters that have had a pack circle them when they're exiting the woods. If a firearm isn't an option I would think bear spray or a dog whistle would be a deterrent. Some type of baton would work as well. Of course my GSD and my MIL's Great Pyrenees are pretty good deterrents as well.

You could also try to eradicate them but I think studies have shown that doesn't work as well as hoped. I know trapping and hunting them hasn't really decreased the numbers in our area.

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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by abuss368 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:34 pm

This is scary. I could not imagine seeing a Coyote.
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Beehave
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Beehave » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:42 pm

Carrying something you will use as a weapon that the coyote does not understand seems to be inviting danger to me. Many years ago I had a friend in Ann Arbor who had a female dog she could not walk when the dog came into heat because of the large pack of unruly dogs that ran loose in those days (from fraternities etc.). I walked the female dog for her by wrapping the leash close to my left wrist, and I carried a lead pipe long enough to tap on the sidewalk each stride in my right hand. The male dogs would circle us as if we were the sun and they were the planets, the biggest and toughest dog on the inside and successively toughest in their pecking order radiating out. When we passed a fire hydrant or signpost, the biggest dog would leave his orbit to mark it, and then the others would peel out and sometimes squabbles arose over places as they re-formed their orbits around us. None of the dogs EVER tried to mess with me or the female dog in heat while we walked, they just circled figuring, I suppose, I was the toughest dog or whatever of all which I attribute to the lead (today copper if I had to do it all over again) pipe tapping the pavement.

BTW, my friend had her dog spayed after it had one litter of pups, after which the packs dissipated and my top-dog status faded into faint memory.

denovo
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by denovo » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:48 pm

abuss368 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:34 pm
This is scary. I could not imagine seeing a Coyote.
They are smaller than most big dogs and are afraid of humans. They weigh like 50 lbs. It is the cats and small dogs we have to be worried about. :( :(
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Spirit Rider
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Spirit Rider » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 pm

denovo wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:48 pm
They are smaller than most big dogs and are afraid of humans. They weigh like 50 lbs
Not anymore. This is the real problem now in suburban and urban areas. Coyotes in these areas have increasingly lost their fear of humans.

RCL
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by RCL » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:06 am

rustymutt wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:17 pm
jebmke wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:42 pm
rterickson wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:07 pm
Carrying a golf club will get you fewer funny looks than a baseball bat.
Take a 2-iron. They aren't good for anything but clubbing something.

Mine is good for 250 yards.
Yes, but what direction? :D :D
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denovo
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by denovo » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:33 am

Spirit Rider wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 pm
denovo wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:48 pm
They are smaller than most big dogs and are afraid of humans. They weigh like 50 lbs
Not anymore. This is the real problem now in suburban and urban areas. Coyotes in these areas have increasingly lost their fear of humans.
I live in an area that is suburban, and I sometimes even try to run after them. They run away from me.
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brajalle
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by brajalle » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:25 am

lazydavid wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:34 pm
From what I've read, pepper spray is typically quite effective unless it's windy. If you're downwind of the animal, you could wind up just blinding yourself.
They have pepper spray delivered by gel and foam as well. This helps a bit with the whole windy, downwind, or fear of getting it back in your own face. Of course, you have to aim better.

lazydavid
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Coyote Defense

Post by lazydavid » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:17 am

Raymond wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:48 pm
Excellent! Thanks for the information, just ordered three of the 42" [sjambok] just now (one for each member of the family.)
I ordered 3 as well, since it's actually cheaper than getting two, and only a few bucks more than one. They should arrive mid/late next week. Will keep one by the front door for walking, one out on the back patio (they're weatherproof plastic), and give the third to my friend who warned me. He is in his 70s and has a 7-8 lb french poodle which I think is 12 years old, so he's even more concerned than I am.

Also picked up a 21" collapsible baton on the way home yesterday. fits nice and unobtrusively on my belt. Kind of looks like a small flashlight in a holster. No more walking around like a thug looking for a rumble. :mrgreen: Looked at the bear repellent pepper spray, but they're REALLY big, like a small fire extinguisher. Will probably grab one for camping with my son, but don't want to cart it around for an hour every day.

whomever
Posts: 770
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by whomever » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:10 am

"Also picked up a 21" collapsible baton..."

One note of caution - make sure it's legal for you to carry it. I've read of cases where people carrying sticks, golf clubs, etc to fend off other dogs while walking getting charged with weapons possession. Weapons laws can be peculiar. For example, my state is quite liberal with concealed pistol licenses, but when the license arrives it comes with a letter reminding you that it is a license for a pistol, and that carry of brass knuckles, saps, nunchucks, yadda is still verboten. I don't remember whether collapsible batons are on the list, but they are in many jurisdictions. That you found the baton for sale in a local store probably means it's OK, but it's not a garuntee of legality. For example, you can buy nunchucks locally w/o restriction, but carrying them is a no-no.

Without knowing your location it's impossible to say; I'm just suggesting that you do your research carefully. Weapons violations can have severe penalties even if no malice is involved.

Also note that intent can matter. For example, carrying a cane or walking stick as an aid in walking is legal just about everywhere (as would be using it to fend off a coyote). Carrying one with the intent to use it as a weapon, even against coyotes, is a crime in some locales.

lazydavid
Posts: 1663
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Coyote Defense

Post by lazydavid » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:28 am

whomever wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:10 am
"Also picked up a 21" collapsible baton..."

One note of caution - make sure it's legal for you to carry it. I've read of cases where people carrying sticks, golf clubs, etc to fend off other dogs while walking getting charged with weapons possession. Weapons laws can be peculiar. For example, my state is quite liberal with concealed pistol licenses, but when the license arrives it comes with a letter reminding you that it is a license for a pistol, and that carry of brass knuckles, saps, nunchucks, yadda is still verboten. I don't remember whether collapsible batons are on the list, but they are in many jurisdictions. That you found the baton for sale in a local store probably means it's OK, but it's not a garuntee of legality. For example, you can buy nunchucks locally w/o restriction, but carrying them is a no-no.
Carrying it is illegal in Illinois under the following circumstances:
1. Inside a government building
2. With intent to harm another person

Here's the exact statute:
Sec. 24-1. Unlawful use of weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:

(2) Carries or possesses with intent to use

unlawfully against another
, a dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto, broken bottle or other piece of glass, stun gun or taser or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character;


(13) Carries or possesses on or about his or her

person while in a building occupied by a unit of government, a billy club, other weapon of like character, or other instrument of like character intended for use as a weapon. For the purposes of this Section, "billy club" means a short stick or club commonly carried by police officers which is either telescopic or constructed of a solid piece of wood or other man-made material.

clutchied
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by clutchied » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:57 am

lazydavid wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Our suburban neighborhood has either had a recent influx of coyotes, or they have become dramatically more active. We now regularly see at least one wandering the streets during the day. A few days ago one killed a neighbor's dog in their backyard, while the neighbors were present. My dog at 22 lbs is towards the upper edge of what a lone coyote would probably attempt to eat, but I want a little more assurance than that.

For our last few walks, I've been carrying a large baseball bat, but it's a bit unwieldy and probably only a matter of time before the neighbors start looking at me funny. :P What are my best options? Presumably the village would frown upon firearms. A little googling suggests either bear repellent or a collapsible baton. I figured some of my fellow bogleheads might have direct experience.
A golf club shaft without the head makes for a brutal weapon with great range.

It's light and therefore easy to maneuver while also imparting enough energy to really wake anything up.

They also have a sharp end shaft which can pierce if needed.


I used to live in the foothills of the San Bernardino mountains in socal and we'd get them hanging out in my back yard. they were never an issue for me but it always a surprise seeing them just chilling in the grass...


don't judge me...

Spirit Rider
Posts: 8377
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:39 pm

Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Spirit Rider » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:11 am

denovo wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:33 am
Spirit Rider wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 pm
denovo wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:48 pm
They are smaller than most big dogs and are afraid of humans. They weigh like 50 lbs
Not anymore. This is the real problem now in suburban and urban areas. Coyotes in these areas have increasingly lost their fear of humans.
I live in an area that is suburban, and I sometimes even try to run after them. They run away from me.
That is a useful data point for your location and the specific coyotes you have encountered.

However, it does not change the fact that in much of the country, coyotes have become increasing bold and acclimated to humans. Which increases the risk to smaller pets and has recently happened, smaller children and the elderly,

clip651
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:02 am

Re: Coyote Defense

Post by clip651 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:44 am

I would vote for a walking stick, cane, or umbrella (a larger one, not the compact style), and a short leash for the dog. That would be helpful for coyotes or stray or off leash dogs that become a problem.

An umbrella has the advantage that you can open and close it to help startle the coyote if you see it at a bit of a distance, and you may also be able to put your dog behind it as a visual barrier between the dog and the coyote. Of course, the umbrella has the disadvantage that it looks a bit odd to your fellow humans on a sunny day. But you could tell anyone that asked why you have it.

I enjoy tiny dogs, but I worry less now that I have ones that are a bit bigger and less likely to be carried off by a hawk or coyote. So it depends a bit on how big your dog is, as well.

cj

lazydavid
Posts: 1663
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by lazydavid » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:17 am

clip651 wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:44 am
I enjoy tiny dogs, but I worry less now that I have ones that are a bit bigger and less likely to be carried off by a hawk or coyote. So it depends a bit on how big your dog is, as well.
Ours isn't quite tiny--at 22-23 lbs, I'd describe her as small. She's all muscle (I'm roughly 300 lbs and she can pull me uphill on my bike) and acts fierce, but I don't know that she'd be able to back up her posturing if push came to shove.

whomever
Posts: 770
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Re: Coyote Defense

Post by whomever » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:32 am

Just FWIW for people in states other than Illinois, this purports to list baton laws by state:

http://weaponlaws.wikidot.com/state-baton-laws

I'd sure verify before relying on it. As an example of things you wouldn't expect, it says batons are banned in Texas and Tennessee - two states where you might not expect that. But they are legal in Maryland and D.C., which are generally not very weapons friendly. And note the concealed/unconcealed provisions - if it's on your belt and you put on a raincoat...

runner3081
Posts: 1504
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Coyote Defense

Post by runner3081 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:34 pm

abuss368 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:34 pm
This is scary. I could not imagine seeing a Coyote.
It is rare for me to NOT see them when I am out running in the morning. Prefer to see a coyote over a family of Javelinas or unleashed dogs.

gkaplan
Posts: 7034
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Coyote Defense

Post by gkaplan » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:01 pm

runner3081 wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:34 pm
abuss368 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:34 pm
This is scary. I could not imagine seeing a Coyote.
It is rare for me to NOT see them when I am out running in the morning. Prefer to see a coyote over a family of Javelinas or unleashed dogs.
Or mountain lions.
Gordon

Dead Man Walking
Posts: 663
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:51 pm

Re: Coyote Defense

Post by Dead Man Walking » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:43 pm

Spirit Rider wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 pm
denovo wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:48 pm
They are smaller than most big dogs and are afraid of humans. They weigh like 50 lbs
Not anymore. This is the real problem now in suburban and urban areas. Coyotes in these areas have increasingly lost their fear of humans.
Their fear of humans is definitely different in suburban areas. I live in a rural area. It's about 80 yards from my back porch to the wooded area behind my house. A coyote at the edge of the woods will run when I walk onto the porch. My son lives in a suburb. The coyotes in his neighborhood will slowly meander away when you are 20 yards from them unless you make a ruckus. The deer behave similarly.

DMW

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