Bosch dishwasher?

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Jackson12
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Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:12 pm

We need a new dishwasher. Our old and beloved Whirlpool lasted 20 years but it's officially expired. A sad day. We've been cinsuderung dishwashers but many reviews end by saying ' " this review written as part of a promotion"

So I'd like opinions from others. We prefer a black or white 24" model.

JBTX
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by JBTX » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:20 pm

Be prepared that most new dishwashers don't have a drying element. That saves energy and is safer but your plastic dishes don't get completely dry. I didn't realize until we just installed our new washer.

We just got a frigidaire that was bundled with all the other frigidaire kitchen appliances. I have to say it is amazingly quiet compared to that 20+ year old one that growled when you ran it. You really can't hear it all all except for some very minor water trickling. The plastic racks seem a bit flimsy but overall it functions fine.

RudyS
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by RudyS » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:22 pm

We relied in reviews at Lowes & Home Depot sites as well as Amazon. Didn't run into the "part of a promotion" thing. Decided on KitchenAid rather than Bosch. I think the biggest reason was that the Bosch unit's basket tended to come off the track. Had the pump replaced under warranty, but otherwise we like it.

It does have a heat dry setting, but we try to open the door right after it stops.

roblatham
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by roblatham » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:29 pm

Mostly happy with our Bosch dishwasher. Definitely quiet. The quiet comes from a lack of a grinder, so you need to clear out the filter somewhat regularly.

bayview
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by bayview » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:47 pm

We bought this Bosch d/w two years ago, and we love love love it:

SHP65T55UC

If you yank the bottom drawer, yes, it can come off the rails, and you just put it back on. What, it's an inch off the tracks? How complicated is that?

Pretty sure that ours doesn't have a separate drying element, but we just open it up to let the steam out, and everything is fine.

I can't get over how insanely quiet it is. We have to look for the red dot on the floor (projected from the d/w) to know that it's running.

I'm delighted and can't imagine getting anything else.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

ThankYouJack
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by ThankYouJack » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:53 pm

We bought a lower level Bosch from Lowes (think it was $600 or $800) a few years ago. We've been satisfied with it, but thought we'd be happier. Had problems with the drying element pretty much from the start. Thought it would be quieter and work a bit better with caked on food. I'm guessing the higher end models work much better.

blevine
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by blevine » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:58 pm

Have Bosch last few years. Very quiet but must pre-rinse many items or they come out dirty.
That said, I don't seem to recall prior washers doing much better in that regard.
Dried caked food on dishes/utensils is tough for any of these machines !
Has worked without need for repair, but yes one must leave it open a while to dry out after it stops running.

Saving$
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Saving$ » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:01 pm

$300 white top of door controls Amana, 2 years old. Works great, dries dishes well. I unbelievably quiet.

Mike83
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Mike83 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:09 pm

In order to become ultra-quiet, many modern dw use a filter to screen bits of debris, rather than a grinder to flush them away. Quiet, yes, but a bit disgusting as the filter fills up with bits of stuff and wash water passes through it (clean every month).

With my old kitchenaid that lasted 15 years, I had become proficient at unclogging the grinder and replacing parts every other year. My new Kitchenaid uses a newer method to flush away the bits, no filter, no grinding. This is likely to spread across their models in the future. It is very quiet, almost imperceptible in my kitchen. I like it (now 18 months in use). We do not pre-rinse our dishes before loading.

As a result of gubbermint 'efficiency' requirements, all newer dishwasher have very long cleaning cycles. Washing is longer (to let the enzymes do the work at lower temperatures) and drying is longer (so the heating element doesn't get as hot), and generally the wash cycle is not as agressive. You can no longer expect to put the dishes in after Thanksgiving dinner and refill the machine with desert dishes the same evening.

As for brand, whirlpool kitchenaid will give you good access to parts and repair services over many years. Euro brands come and go. I have a Bosch washer/dryer that I am happy with after 12 years, but they no longer make full size models for the US market.

Jackson12
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:21 pm

bayview wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:47 pm
We bought this Bosch d/w two years ago, and we love love love it:

SHP65T55UC

If you yank the bottom drawer, yes, it can come off the rails, and you just put it back on. What, it's an inch off the tracks? How complicated is that?

Pretty sure that ours doesn't have a separate drying element, but we just open it up to let the steam out, and everything is fine.

I can't get over how insanely quiet it is. We have to look for the red dot on the floor (projected from the d/w) to know that it's running.

I'm delighted and can't imagine getting anything else.
Unfortunately, your model seems discontinued.

We've been consdering:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Bosch-300-Seri ... 1000168193

Not sure where we'd purchase it. Link is only for those interested in viewing the model and for possible feedback.

MathWizard
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by MathWizard » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:48 pm

We just bought a Bosch to replace our whirpool that died.

The new $800 Bosch is so much quieter that I sometimes am not sure I have started it.

Big Dog
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Big Dog » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:03 pm

we;ve had two Bosch's for 30 years in the house. Current one is 10 years old, and does have a drying element. But we use econo and just open the door so the dishes air dry.

We went with Bosch since our H20 heater is a long way from the kitchen, and the bosch will heat the water. Old Whirlpool that we replaced would not.

Quiet? Absolutely. Also, uses little water per cycle.

Will replace with bosch when the time comes -- happy customer.

(fwiw: we have always pre-rinsed pretty well, so grinder/filter is not an issue. (yeah, I know that probably wastes time and water, but old school here.)

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FraggleRock
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Bosch, yes

Post by FraggleRock » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:07 pm

Bosch
Buy one with a list price >$950 USD.
More gets you a quieter one. Cleaning is the same.
You must use the recommended detergent and drying agent. Better drying with "Extra Dry Heat - With this option you can raise the temperature of the rinse water and increase the drying time for improved drying."
17+ years of experience.

1987 - top of the line GE dishwasher. NOISY.
2000 - Bosch 500 series. Quiet. Bought it because we could not hear our friends' Bosch dishwashers when we at their houses.
2011 - Moved to new house where builder has installed a Bosch Ascenta. Noisy; for a Bosch.
2013 - Gave the Ascenta to the kids and bought a Bosch 500 series.
future - most likely Bosch 800 Series as I want quieter. Will consider Miele or Cove.
Last edited by FraggleRock on Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

Jackson12
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:37 am

Thanks, everyone. All this info is very helpful.

Valuethinker
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Valuethinker » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:12 am

Jackson12 wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:37 am
Thanks, everyone. All this info is very helpful.
We have one in Europe. Never any problem. Noise not an issue. We *do* rinse the plates in lukewarmish water beforehand. And use the recommended detergents and water softeners (we have very hard water). Siemens (same company) are made in Germany, Bosch are identical but made in Eastern or Southern Europe (or Turkey). As with all European appliances very efficient in terms of water and energy (less so than hand washing) but a full cycle takes something like 3 hours (on ECO setting).

We run it overnight. Noise is not an issue (kitchen is in an extension to the house though). The plates are dry in the morning. All European washers have their own water heating cycle (that I have been able to determine).

A relative in North America has a Bosch and it has been a nightmare. I think made in Mexico. Constant problems, and the service people (under warranty) have never been any use- -delays getting parts, cannot fix problem etc. One issue is apparently they do not rinse the plates first and apparently you really must do that.

My conclusion is that in North America I wouldn't buy a Bosch, based on this experience.

Miele is the best brand, but you will pay for it. They manufacture in Germany and use high quality components (which is really key).

OnTrack
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by OnTrack » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:07 pm

We have a Bosch shxm65w55n. It is very quiet. The controls can only be accessed when the door is open, so one has to select the options and press start and close the door. There is a red light that shines on the floor to let you know it is running. If the door isn't closed fast enough after pressing start, the red light will flash indicating that it did not start; it is so quiet you might not know that it hadn't started otherwise. One reason we picked this model of Bosch is because we wanted a handle that we could hang towels on. There are 3 racks, I use the top rack for knives. The bottom rack has wheels that run over the door when the door is open and it has occasionally run off the "track"; I've learned to be careful to have the door fully open and to pull the rack straight out and it really isn't a problem. We were having some trouble with the dishes not drying but we started using jet dry and that helps a lot. I also use the "extra dry" setting. Some cycles are very long, but there is a "Speed60" cycle that is faster than the others. The capacity seems to be very good. The middle rack's height is adjustable. The cost was $773.

JW-Retired
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by JW-Retired » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:36 pm

We are on our 2nd Bosch. Both were/are exceedingly quiet. The first one developed a problem with the sequencing after 10 years and we elected to get a new one rather than fix it. The second one has never had any problems with anything so far at 11 years. If/when this one dies we would probably get another Bosch.

We too give the dishes a light rinse-off in the sink as we load the washer. This allows the washer screen to be rinsed only every couple of months.
JW
Retired at Last

michaeljc70
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by michaeljc70 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:36 pm

I had a Bosch at my last house for 11 years. It was great. I bought a mid-upper end Bosch for my new place 3 years ago. No mechanical issues with either. The newer one has a 3rd rack which I've found to be useless and removed. The new one requires cleaning the dishes really well or running it on "Heavy" mode. I didn't have to do that with the last one, but not a big deal as it doesn't take that much longer than the normal cycle. Most cycles take around 2.5 hours on a Bosch, which seems long but I am typically not in a hurry and don't know how it compares to competing brands.

It seems like you are only getting a dishwasher, so when you say you want black or white shouldn't it match your other appliances?

cherijoh
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by cherijoh » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:02 pm

I bought this model a few months ago at Lowes. I like it for the most part although it took me a little while to figure out the best pattern to load it my use pattern - it was very different from my old cheapo builder-provided one.

I pre-rinse since I usually only wash once or twice a week unless I have company. I use Jet Dry and also run the "extra dry" cycle.

The only issue I've had so far was after a power failure. It reset itself to the "delay" cycle and I didn't realize it. :oops:

POSITA
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by POSITA » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:45 pm

We've had a mid-range (approximately $600) Bosch dishwasher for about three years. No issues at all. It is extremely quiet. I really like the third rack, which I find to be perfect for spatulas, wooden spoons, flat cheese graters, and smaller items that I don't want to bury in the utensil basket. The third rack does reduce a couple of inches of space for the middle rack. As others have mentioned you can remove the third rack, if desired. If this one lasts a few more years, I would definitely purchase another Bosch.

michaeljc70
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by michaeljc70 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:49 pm

POSITA wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:45 pm
We've had a mid-range (approximately $600) Bosch dishwasher for about three years. No issues at all. It is extremely quiet. I really like the third rack, which I find to be perfect for spatulas, wooden spoons, flat cheese graters, and smaller items that I don't want to bury in the utensil basket. The third rack does reduce a couple of inches of space for the middle rack. As others have mentioned you can remove the third rack, if desired. If this one lasts a few more years, I would definitely purchase another Bosch.
My issue with the 3rd rack was I couldn't fit wine glasses and taller glasses in the middle rack. There are also slots for silverware in the third rack, but it would take forever to load them with a bunch of silverware on an individual basis.

Jackson12
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:32 pm

Sorry to be replying to some replies on this thread so late.

I spent most of today researching options, reading reviews, consulting friends, and of course checking back for replies here. I also looked at dishwashers in stores.

We're still leaning toward a Bosch. Unfortunately for us ( but fortunate for those who got in on the savings early on) Bosch is offering great rebates on some of their dishwashers and many of those models with the best reviews and consumer ratings are back ordered.

The ones we prefer will not be available for months, if then. I called customer service and they were able to provide actual numbers of back orders for specific models. There is a mid-range model available whuch also qualifies for the rebate but it has a known issue with the door latch and reviews were mixed...so no thanks.

We've lived without dishwashers before but we want a new one soon because we're facing a flurry of guests this fall and then again as we head into the holidays.

I appreciate all the feedback so far. It has been very helpful.

Jackson12
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:36 pm

JW-Retired wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:36 pm
We are on our 2nd Bosch. Both were/are exceedingly quiet. The first one developed a problem with the sequencing after 10 years and we elected to get a new one rather than fix it. The second one has never had any problems with anything so far at 11 years. If/when this one dies we would probably get another Bosch.

We too give the dishes a light rinse-off in the sink as we load the washer. This allows the washer screen to be rinsed only every couple of months.
JW
Could you share the model number? I don't know if that info is displayed inside the dishwasher door - as ours is.

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TnGuy
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by TnGuy » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:55 pm

Mike83 wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:09 pm
My new Kitchenaid ....

If you don't mind, could you tell which model you ended up purchasing? Thank you.


David
"Money will not make you happy. And happy will not make you money." - Groucho Marx

Jackson12
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:56 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:36 pm


It seems like you are only getting a dishwasher, so when you say you want black or white shouldn't it match your other appliances?
We have black ovens, a black refrigerator, etc. we have white cabinets and a black counter top and cook top. Our old dishwasher is white. We didn't replace it when we redid our kitchen and it has fit in just fine.

The refrigerator is older but has been wonderful. The ovens, bought from Lowes and which have the universal digital controls of today, has been a nightmare.

We bought an extended warranty and that turned out to be nearly useless. The only saving grace was that the cost of the many repairs it needed were covered.

The " three repairs and then we replace it" guarantee ( purchased from Lowes) was a joke. Turns out that they meant 3 repairs for the same issue and they decided what constituted the same issue.

For example, we had 2 control panels replaced and yet the warranty company decided the cause was not a similar issue. We couldn' t use the self cleaning feature without blowing out the control panel. Lowes had installed the oven and never warned us of that possible issue.

At the time, it was a top rated Consumer Reports appliance.

We hang on to our older appliances as long as possible. They work well and we take care of them. I hate digital controls.

That's my vent and a " heads up"' to others who are considering new dishwashers and extended warranties. Maybe some extended warranties are just fine.

JW-Retired
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by JW-Retired » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:22 pm

Jackson12 wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:36 pm
JW-Retired wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:36 pm
We are on our 2nd Bosch. Both were/are exceedingly quiet. The first one developed a problem with the sequencing after 10 years and we elected to get a new one rather than fix it. The second one has never had any problems with anything so far at 11 years. If/when this one dies we would probably get another Bosch.

We too give the dishes a light rinse-off in the sink as we load the washer. This allows the washer screen to be rinsed only every couple of months.
JW
Could you share the model number? I don't know if that info is displayed inside the dishwasher door - as ours is.
Model SHE56C06UC/22
...on the edge of the door.
Retired at Last

chrisjul
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by chrisjul » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 pm

I bought a new top of the line Bosch due mainly to its quiet rating. It lasted about a month past the warranty and self destructed beyond repair.

Then bought a KitchenAid, based on Consumer Reports rating and its good. Just as quiet too.

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Hyperborea
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Hyperborea » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:30 pm

The problem with anecdata is that you can't tell the reliability of an appliance or a car or anything else from it. If you buy the appliance that has the 1% failure rate and you get lucky (it fails) and I buy the appliance with the 15% failure rate and mine does all right, which appliance has the better reliability? Which one do you want to buy?

If it matters, I had a Kenmore/Whirlpool that went after a couple of years and flooded our kitchen while we were on vacation. The Bosch that replaced it has been running great. We don't rinse off the dishes only scrape them off into the garbage beforehand.

Jackson12
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:39 pm

JW-Retired wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:22 pm
Jackson12 wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:36 pm
JW-Retired wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:36 pm
We are on our 2nd Bosch. Both were/are exceedingly quiet. The first one developed a problem with the sequencing after 10 years and we elected to get a new one rather than fix it. The second one has never had any problems with anything so far at 11 years. If/when this one dies we would probably get another Bosch.

We too give the dishes a light rinse-off in the sink as we load the washer. This allows the washer screen to be rinsed only every couple of months.
JW
Could you share the model number? I don't know if that info is displayed inside the dishwasher door - as ours is.
Model SHE56C06UC/22
...on the edge of the door.
Thanks!

oilcan
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by oilcan » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:17 pm

In 2012 I did my research and decided to purchase a Bosch dishwasher. However when we got to Lowe's the salesman talked us out of the Bosch and sold us on a Kitchen Aid instead. This machine was fine at first but after three service calls it eventually died in December 2016. So again I did my research and decided again on a Bosch. Went back to Lowe's and purchased a Bosch Model # SHP65T55UC on 12/27/2016. Granted we have had it less than a year but we love it. Would definitely recommend this Bosch dishwasher!

Jackson12
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:26 pm

oilcan wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:17 pm
In 2012 I did my research and decided to purchase a Bosch dishwasher. However when we got to Lowe's the salesman talked us out of the Bosch and sold us on a Kitchen Aid instead. This machine was fine at first but after three service calls it eventually died in December 2016. So again I did my research and decided again on a Bosch. Went back to Lowe's and purchased a Bosch Model # SHP65T55UC on 12/27/2016. Granted we have had it less than a year but we love it. Would definitely recommend this Bosch dishwasher!
Thanks. We'll definitely check it out!

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Artsdoctor
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Artsdoctor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:35 pm

We purchased a Bosch dishwasher at the same time our neighbor purchased a Bosch refrigerator. Within 4 years, we got rid of them both. Sorry I can't provide model numbers. Wrote a letter to HQ as did my neighbor and never heard back. That was 2 years ago. Now have a Miele, which I should have bought to begin with; have had our Miele W/D for almost 20 years.

michaeljc70
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by michaeljc70 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:52 pm

Artsdoctor wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:35 pm
We purchased a Bosch dishwasher at the same time our neighbor purchased a Bosch refrigerator. Within 4 years, we got rid of them both. Sorry I can't provide model numbers. Wrote a letter to HQ as did my neighbor and never heard back. That was 2 years ago. Now have a Miele, which I should have bought to begin with; have had our Miele W/D for almost 20 years.
As someone else said, I wouldn't rely on anecdotal reliability information. From Consumer Reports:

"The brass ring goes to Bosch, which stands out as among the more reliable dishwasher brands. "

https://www.consumerreports.org/dishwas ... er-brands/

They send out surveys and compile the reliability data.

The Aug 16 issue rated dishwashers and the top 2 in the Mid-range ($700-$1000) were Bosch.

investingdad
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by investingdad » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:40 am

We have a mid range Bosch as well, only about six months old. Prior Whirlpool dishwasher died after seven years, not made like they used to be.

Anyway, good so far. Super quiet, which was important because the master bedroom is above the kitchen and we often run the dishwasher before going to bed. The old one I could hear upstairs. This one I can barely hear in the kitchen.

So far so good for the Germans.

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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by mancich » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:09 am

We own a mid-range Bosch as well (Ascenta model). If I recall it was $550 on sale from Lowes. They delivered and installed it, and hauled away the old Kenmore which had died after many years of service. I've had the Bosch about 3 years now. Very quiet. Stainless steel sides and back, plastic bottom to cut down on costs I'm sure, but I'm fine with that. Only quirk I've noticed is that every once in a while, the digital control panel will display :01minutes when I turn it on to start a cycle, instead of 1:15 (the quick wash cycle time of one hour fifteen minutes). Called Bosch and they walked me through the two buttons to push to reset it. Not sure why it does it, but the reset always works so I'll stick with it. Other than that, it does a great job on washing and drying.

Jackson12
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:43 am

michaeljc70 wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:52 pm
Artsdoctor wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:35 pm
We purchased a Bosch dishwasher at the same time our neighbor purchased a Bosch refrigerator. Within 4 years, we got rid of them both. Sorry I can't provide model numbers. Wrote a letter to HQ as did my neighbor and never heard back. That was 2 years ago. Now have a Miele, which I should have bought to begin with; have had our Miele W/D for almost 20 years.
As someone else said, I wouldn't rely on anecdotal reliability information. From Consumer Reports:

"The brass ring goes to Bosch, which stands out as among the more reliable dishwasher brands. "


https://www.consumerreports.org/dishwas ... er-brands/

They send out surveys and compile the reliability data.

The Aug 16 issue rated dishwashers and the top 2 in the Mid-range ($700-$1000) were Bosch.
I am reluctant to trust Consumer Reports ( see why a bit further below) Anecdotal or not, the numerous reader comments below that article makes for interesting reading and many support my view of Consumer Reports user ratings as well as their " test results." Reader comments are all over the place for Bosch as well as Miele, two high end brands. Some say they last. Some say they have had terrible results.

Why am I reluctant to trust Consumer Reports ? Simply because we purchased the top rated wall oven and cooktop when we completed a kitchen renovation, one we'd waited to complete for many years.The appliances, Electrolux, were not inexpensive.

Both malfunctioned nearly from day one. We'd bought extended warranties (over 5 years) but they were nearly worthless, at least as far as actually repairing the appliances. The oven needed 2 complete replacements of the control board. One of the few " certified and acceptable" repair companies damaged the wall when their workers took out the wall oven for repair.

The cooktop had 1 main burner whuch kept everything at a rolling boil even if set on low. It was never properly repaired,mwarranty or not. We used the other burners, which also had issues, until the cooktop finally died, less than 3 years after purchase.

The cost of a new control panel ( which we were told was needed) was well over $1000! The repair people ( we consulted more,than one) could hardly believe it. Neither could we. But it was true.

Again, both cooktop and oven were among the top rated models and brands by Consumer Reports.

So we're now also researching cook tops ( recommendations of brands and models appreciated) while cooking on 2 portable induction burners plus an instant pot ( whuch we highly recommend, they're amazing ) and a toaster oven.

They're fine for our needs.

Our budget only accommodates a new dishwasher at this point. Until we sell our home, I'm not even sure I want to buy a new cooktop or oven.. Our relatively inexpensive instant pot, portable induction burners ( less than $150 for 2 ) and toaster oven are excellemt for our needs, as well as any guests we have hosted.

It's only the upcoming Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays that are any cause for concern. We can't fit a turkey or any large casseroles in anything we currently have.

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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:51 am

In my lengthy reply above, I forgot to note that we now favor Bosch. I'm still nervous, primarily because of all the issues we've had with top rated appliances - and it's exactly those issues which make me sorry to lose our old dishwasher , as it lasted and performed well, long past the "typical" 10"year life span of today's appliances, at least according to the repair people we trust.

Jackson12
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Jackson12 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:09 am

Jackson12 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:51 am
In my lengthy reply above, I forgot to note that we now favor Bosch. I'm still nervous, primarily because of all the issues we've had with top rated appliances - and it's exactly those issues which make me sorry to lose our old dishwasher , as it lasted and performed well, long past the "typical" 10"year life span of today's appliances, at least according to the repair people we trust.

And here's a link of top rated dishwashers for Consumer Reports: https://www.consumerreports.org/product ... /overview/#

Reader comments repeatedly list an issue with "function buttons whose labels wear off after 13- 15 months of use" - and that's for a $950 Bosch.

However, the most positive comments as well as consumer ratings seem to favor Bosch. So we're leaning that way.

wrongfunds
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by wrongfunds » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:52 am

Unless you can buy best rated brand new 10 year old dishwasher which was stored in climate controlled storage, the survey data does not do you much good. I do not believe CR has ability to generate 10 year reliability data in one month of testing. You are really getting historical data. The appliance market and their OEM supplier changes too much in the 10 year period to predict the future reliability based upon the data gathered over 10 year life span.

I hope I have made my point clear. To add one anecdote, my Whirlpool Gold builder grade lasted 15 years. The new Bosh has already gone through 3 pocket door handles during the warranty and the one on it has cracked yet once again outside the warranty.

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Artsdoctor
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by Artsdoctor » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:57 am

wrongfunds wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:52 am
Unless you can buy best rated brand new 10 year old dishwasher which was stored in climate controlled storage, the survey data does not do you much good. I do not believe CR has ability to generate 10 year reliability data in one month of testing. You are really getting historical data. The appliance market and their OEM supplier changes too much in the 10 year period to predict the future reliability based upon the data gathered over 10 year life span.

I hope I have made my point clear. To add one anecdote, my Whirlpool Gold builder grade lasted 15 years. The new Bosh has already gone through 3 pocket door handles during the warranty and the one on it has cracked yet once again outside the warranty.
I think this gets to the heart of the matter. We subscribe to Consumer Reports and I think they really try. Some things they review are more on-the-mark than others. When I read medical journals, I have a certain mindset and view data very critically; when I read CR, I can appreciate their efforts but the methology isn't exactly robust compared to what I'm used to. Like others mentioned above, I've bought the exact same models of CR-rated appliances over many years--some have been great and some have been disappointing.

I wish there were definitive studies comparing appliances but I certainly haven't found them. To make matters more difficult, a lot of brands are consolidating and what was accurate two years ago might no longer be accurate (assembly plants are moved to different countries, microprocessors are more complicated and susceptible, mergers have occurred, etc.).

The OP asked for opinions, not data. For better or worse, that's what he got. I wish I had a better answer.

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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:19 am

Obviously they will not have data on a model that just came out. Bosch has been highly rated for years. They are using the best data available. Most models aren't completely revamped constantly. Most brands put a consistent amount of quality control into their products over time. In other words, it is not perfect but I think it is better than guessing.

Your argument could be applied to cars too and it is pretty widely understood what the most reliable makes of cars are for a long period of time (Honda/Toyota). That doesn't mean they won't have a model that falls behind from time to time.

BTW...I trust the CR reliability stats more than their actual reviews. I think reviews of many things (especially appliances) are pretty subjective. I try to look at different sources to corroborate like Amazon, Home Depot, Lowes, or whatever in the case of appliances. I'm more likely to avoid their worst rated than go with their best rated.

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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by rebellovw » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:20 am

We went from a Kenmore to a crappy Bosch when we moved into our last house - my wife and I always made fun of it and joked that it called us "you american pigs with your dirty dishes..." I was so glad when it finally broke down and I could replace it with a Kenmore.

The only thing nice about it was the quietness and the new Kenmore model I bought was way quieter and best reviewed by Consumer Reports at the time.

The Bosch was much too small for a family of 4 - we always had dishes sitting on the counter.

I would never buy a Bosch.

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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by db1216 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:28 am

Sure are a lot of Bosch users here. We bought a Bosch about one year ago, it's our first. As other have said, crazy quiet; cleans well but you do have to clear the chunks due to lack of a grinder. The only complaint I have is it beeps when it is done three separate times. Maybe I can turn that off. Oh, and perhaps that it does leave a bit of water on the ridges of the plate(s) sometimes so I empty with a towel. We had a Whirlpool at our last house and it caused lots of problems.

Thumbs up for sure. :sharebeer

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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:39 am

db1216 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:28 am
Sure are a lot of Bosch users here. We bought a Bosch about one year ago, it's our first. As other have said, crazy quiet; cleans well but you do have to clear the chunks due to lack of a grinder. The only complaint I have is it beeps when it is done three separate times. Maybe I can turn that off. Oh, and perhaps that it does leave a bit of water on the ridges of the plate(s) sometimes so I empty with a towel. We had a Whirlpool at our last house and it caused lots of problems.

Thumbs up for sure. :sharebeer
You can turn the beep off or even set the volume on some models. It varies by model but usually involves holding down the cancel button and on/off button. I'm sure you could find it if you Googled your model.

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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by UALflyer » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:26 am

We have a Bosch 800 at home, and we put Bosch Ascenta in our rentals. The Bosch Ascenta (the lowest end Bosch model) is 50db, which, by today's standards, is nothing special and is not very quiet. It's not full stainless steel, which makes its condensation drying even less effective than it already is. People just see "Bosch" and immediately think "high end" and "ultra quiet" even though models like the Ascenta are not.

The Bosch 800 that we have at home is 42dba, which is way quieter than the Ascenta. Having said that, people who say that it is so quiet that they can't even tell that it's running need to have their hearing checked, particularly at times when it drains water or fills it up. It cleans well. The 800 models and above come with a third rack, which we love, although some people don't care for it.The reliability has been subpar, as we have had 4 service visits in the first year and have even had to replace the control board. It was all covered under warranty, but did not exactly inspire a lot of confidence in Bosch. Likewise, Bosch's customer service leaves a lot to be desired, as the reps are frequently rude and dismissive, and the wait times for a service appointment are 2 weeks or so.

Hence, my recommendation is to decide on the quietness and the features, and then to look at all the manufacturers that fit the bill. Both the noise levels and the features can easily be found in Bosch's competition, so at that point it becomes about the price.

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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by UALflyer » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:47 am

michaeljc70 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:19 am
I trust the CR reliability stats more than their actual reviews.
I have been a CR subscriber for dozens of years, and do look at their reliability stats, but you have to take them with a huge grain of salt. Time and time again, for instance, I have seen them rate two models of the exact same product made by the same manufacturer very differently, even though the only differences between the two have been purely cosmetic.

Likewise, a lot of their ratings don't make a lot of sense. For instance, their dishwasher ratings state that the Bosch Ascenta's cycle time is shorter than that of Bosch's higher end models, whereas in reality the cycle times are identical and are customizable. Likewise, they manage to give a higher score to the Ascenta than to Bosch's higher end models, even though the Ascenta's tub is not full stainless steel, which results in compromised drying, it is significantly louder, etc...

CR's reliability ratings have also been wildly inconsistent and unreliable for many years. I like the overall publication, and do look at their ratings, but would never buy anything based solely on the CR ratings, as I've learned my lesson with them over the years.

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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:29 pm

UALflyer wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:26 am
We have a Bosch 800 at home, and we put Bosch Ascenta in our rentals. The Bosch Ascenta (the lowest end Bosch model) is 50db, which, by today's standards, is nothing special and is not very quiet. It's not full stainless steel, which makes its condensation drying even less effective than it already is. People just see "Bosch" and immediately think "high end" and "ultra quiet" even though models like the Ascenta are not.

The Bosch 800 that we have at home is 42dba, which is way quieter than the Ascenta. Having said that, people who say that it is so quiet that they can't even tell that it's running need to have their hearing checked, particularly at times when it drains water or fills it up. It cleans well. The 800 models and above come with a third rack, which we love, although some people don't care for it.The reliability has been subpar, as we have had 4 service visits in the first year and have even had to replace the control board. It was all covered under warranty, but did not exactly inspire a lot of confidence in Bosch. Likewise, Bosch's customer service leaves a lot to be desired, as the reps are frequently rude and dismissive, and the wait times for a service appointment are 2 weeks or so.

Hence, my recommendation is to decide on the quietness and the features, and then to look at all the manufacturers that fit the bill. Both the noise levels and the features can easily be found in Bosch's competition, so at that point it becomes about the price.
I think it is unrealistic to expect a dishwasher to manage the sound of water going to/from your home's plumbing.

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Re: Bosch dishwasher

Post by Jackson12 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:41 pm

I posted on Facebook ( I've been asking friends and acquaintances, those on and offline) and a neighbor kindly offered to let me hear her Bosch in action. This model: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bosch-800- ... Id=5710293

If it is supposed to be so quiet that you need to see the red light to know it is performing, even while in the same room as the dishwasher, this is is not true in her case. We can even hear it in the next room.

The DBA IS 42. It is certainly quieter than our current model but not as quiet as what I assumed. Maybe my expectations - and hers- are unrealistic.

Should it be that loud? She is concerned and has a repair person scheduled to come out. I would love to hear from anyone who has that model but input from any Bosch owner would be helpful.

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Re: Bosch dishwasher

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:00 pm

Jackson12 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:41 pm
I posted on Facebook ( I've been asking friends and acquaintances, those on and offline) and a neighbor kindly offered to let me hear her Bosch in action. This model: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/bosch-800- ... Id=5710293

If it is supposed to be so quiet that you need to see the red light to know it is performing, even while in the same room as the dishwasher, this is is not true in her case. We can even hear it in the next room.

The DBA IS 42. It is certainly quieter than our current model but not as quiet as what I assumed. Maybe my expectations - and hers- are unrealistic.

Should it be that loud? She is concerned and has a repair person scheduled to come out. I would love to hear from anyone who has that model but input from any Bosch owner would be helpful.
I have a 500 series and it is mostly very quiet. You can definitely hear the water fill and empty. There are other times when washing the water seems to hit a pot (I think) at a certain angle and make a sound. I would say 90%+ of the time it is in use I don't hear anything.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wrongfunds
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Re: Bosch dishwasher?

Post by wrongfunds » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:01 pm

Assuming CR has data for 10 years on the Bosch, all that is saying is if you had purchased that Bosch 10 years ago, you would have bought one which has stellar reliability data. CR really does NOT have the reliability data on the today's Bosch. That is point which people are just not getting it. There is a concept of accelerated life testing but CR really has no resources to run them on every item they review.

Now in terms of quietness or ease of use or getting dishes clean etc, you can use CR as gospel but for how long will it last until it breaks, CR is not in position to give any scientific data but only educated guess on their previous and older models.

Just because your Miele has been flawless for 20 years is no assurance that the one I buy today will last 20 years.

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