SUV thread (with a twist)

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
Topic Author
Rick Rock
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:39 pm

SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by Rick Rock »

Question for the board - I've read quite a few of the recent SUV threads and am still trying to figure out the right vehicle for our family. We've just moved to the burbs from the city, have a sedan now and are running out of space in the car.

- We have two little ones (3 & 6 mos), the 3 year old is tall and is starting to hit her head when I put her in her car seat in the sedan, despite my best intentions. No more on the way in the near future.

- We've got a large double stroller now that is hell to wedge into the (empty) trunk of our car. Requires easy disassembly, I'm at work during the day and the whole process is pretty tough for my wife.

- We don't anticipate putting a ton of miles on this every year -- 10k annually max? Would like to get one before a Labor Day trip we take next month but no rush, we could always rent a larger SUV or van for this trip.

- Both my wife and I prefer driving in smaller cars so we'd like something on the smaller spectrum, that would still have room for the double stroller and a couple suitcases for our road trips to see family and explore. So the Pilot is a no go. Would a CRV get this done? Almost need something between the two... (doesn't have to be a Honda, just throwing that out to make the analogy)

- I struggle with budget on this a lot. We're in a good place financially but the concept of shelling out $30k for a car that will eventually be worthless is pretty difficult for me right now. When does leasing make sense? Or should I just bite the bullet and buy the consensus SUV?

- so we could pay $30k cash for this today.

- And happy to consider new or gently used. Would be very nice to be in warranty. (Used) XC60s don't look half bad.
Atilla
Posts: 1612
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:44 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by Atilla »

Mininvans suck, but it might offer the better utility for what you need. Lower cargo access in the back for your wife and super easy to chuck the kids in and out of the back seats.

If you can stand being seen in one, go see what's out there vs. all the small SUV options. My company has a Kia minivan for out of town trips and it hauls people and stuff like nobody's business.
sambb
Posts: 3257
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:31 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by sambb »

Subaru Outback is the answer. And you get great resale value.
dbr
Posts: 46181
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:50 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by dbr »

Crossover SUV in general is probably a good solution for you. The CRV is one such and so is the Outback.

At risk of being one of the Outback "fanboys" I would suggest that car.

Disclaimer: I do in fact own a 2015 Outback which does and has worked well for me. I migrated to it when I got fed up with how hard it is too see out of contemporary sedans. I did a search and Forrester and Outback came up as top choices for visibility outside the car. An additional feature is that the step-up/step down to get in and out is ideal. Apparently only the Forrester rates higher on ease of entry and exit. I also really like the driver aids such as Eyesight and the Outback AWD system is top of the offerings in that area. There is snow where I live so the high clearance is helpful as a number one factor for getting stuck in snow is low clearance. Some people are not happy with the seating comfort in the Outback, but I find it perfectly OK. The other choice I considered was a Volvo but I couldn't find enough benefit to justify the extra cost, which is substantial.
WL2034
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:36 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by WL2034 »

sambb wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:22 pm Subaru Outback is the answer. And you get great resale value.
I have never owned a Subaru (so, not a Subaru fanboy), but I have a few friends who own it and was going to recommend the same. Sounds great for this purpose. I would prefer it to the CR-V or Rav4.
iamlucky13
Posts: 3527
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by iamlucky13 »

Leasing doesn't make sense to me unless you're the sort who wants a new car every time your lease expires, and even then I'm not so sure about it.

The CR-V is a very good family car, in my opinion. The latest version is not exactly small, though, so you might also take a look at other options like the HR-V, Subaru Forester, or the Mazda CX-3. A relative of mine has an HR-V, and like it's close relative the Fit, I think Honda has made very good use of its modest footprint.

Also, a roof rack or cargo box is an option if you want to err on the side of a smaller vehicle but make up for some of the lost capacity on long trips. It's not as convenient for packing for those long trips, but the daily convenience for parking a smaller vehicle might make up for it.

And I agree with Atilla that it's hard to beat the practicality of a minivan for a family vehicle, even though most people don't really want to be seen in a minivan.

Used is also an option if the magnitude of a $30,000 purchase makes you really uncomfortable. You will usually save slightly more money in the long run, but if you were going to keep either vehicle to the same age (eg, buy a new car and keep it for 150,000 miles, or buy a 75,000 mile used car and keep it for another 75,000 miles), the overall costs will not be radically different.
sambb wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:22 pm Subaru Outback is the answer. And you get great resale value.
Compared to the Honda Pilot, which the OP already rejected, while the Outback is a decent amount narrower and shorter in height, it is only 5 inches shorter in overall length.

We have one, and there are many things I like about its relatively low, long profile compared to most SUV's, but ability to fit into short spaces is not one of them. Based on what the OP said, I'd lean towards the Forester over the Outback.
PugetSoundguy
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by PugetSoundguy »

We have two boys and when they were younger we had to haul around stollers, put them in car seats etc. We have a Toyota Sienna minivan (probably too big for what you want, but it sure is convenient) and a 2009 Subaru Forester, which my wife usually drives. She loves it. Lots of room inside, but still compact on the outside and easy to zip around town, fit into parking spots etc. It's a bit taller than the Outback which in our experience made it a bit easier getting the little kids in and out of it. My wife absolutely loves her Forester and we have had no repair issues. My 83-year-old Mom just got a new Honda CRV (go, Mom!) and she loves that car as well. Very peppy in her experience. Seems similar to the Forester.
dbr
Posts: 46181
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:50 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by dbr »

Between Outback and Forrester the Forrester might be a better around town car while the Outback is quieter and more comfortable for longer highway trips.
inbox788
Posts: 8372
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by inbox788 »

Rick Rock wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:55 pm3 year old is tall and is starting to hit her head when I put her in her car seat in the sedan
Why not get rid of the car seat and get a booster, or figure out if you can do without the booster? (how tall is the 3 year old? what state? check with your highway patrol or pediatrician if you want a more official answer) And maybe it's time to downsize from a double stroller to a single (and put the 3 year old to work pushing :wink: ) If you like driving smaller cars, just keep the car for a bit longer, and save the money for future purchase.
https://www.amazon.com/Graco-Classic-Co ... 00Y285QUA/
There's not a very big difference between the CRV and the Pilot. Unless you need the 3rd row seats, just decide if you want a little more room or can live with a little less. I think most folks can live with less, but if you need the extra passenger capacity, then the decision is easy. If you go test drive an HRV, you'll find that the CRV is just the right size. Alternatively, the RAV4 used to be a little bigger than the CRV, though I'm not sure that's still true.
https://www.truedelta.com/Honda-CR-V-vs ... on,110-273
https://www.truedelta.com/Honda-CR-V-vs ... 0-114,2017

Another way to think about it is how often you'll be at driving around at max capacity for a CRV? If it's only 1 or 2 days a month, then 95% of the time, you'll just be driving around more sheet metal and air in the bigger car. If it's more like once a week, then it might be worth not having to find alternatives once in a while (taking less, driving another car, outside storage, etc.).

Forget the lease, unless it's less expensive (total cost) AND you can live with the terms (3 year cycle, mileage limits, etc.). Most people shouldn't be leasing, but many are.
stimulacra
Posts: 1006
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: Houston

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by stimulacra »

I would look at:

1) Subaru Forrester (Tall compact crossover SUV). Pretty affordable and the interior ranges from spartan to nice.
2) Subaru Outback (Sedan based wagon with AWD). They can get pricey quick with the 3.6 engine but think they're very nice and hold their value well.
3) Honda CRV (Compact crossover SUV). Pretty much the benchmark for the class. I think they offer a ton of value and very reliable and functional. Downside are that they're a very common commodity.
4) Mazda CX-5 (Compact crossover SUV). Competes well with the CRV. I find them to be a bit more upscale and less common. Exterior design / styling is a bit minimalist.
5) Mazda CX-9 (Mid-sized crossover SUV). Beefed up version of the CX-5, I think they're built on the same platform but lengthened and widened to allow for third row of seats. Handles pretty well for its size.

If you have one of those high-back booster seats with the full side head impact protection they do take up a ton of space unfortunately, when you move up to a backless booster seat you'll be able to reclaim a ton of backseat space.
BashDash
Posts: 1263
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:31 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by BashDash »

Going to be using the boglehead email method to get the best low price on a 2017 Highlander plus. Hoping to spend 35k. Little painful but we are in good shape and will put a lot of miles on it. Mileage not a huge concern as we save by commuting together daily. Please PM me any possible out the door prices anyone has seen recently. Hoping end of month helps. We have same age children as OP
pfranz
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:01 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by pfranz »

We still live in the city. We have two parking spots, but they're narrow and shallow. Friends of ours got a used Mazda 5 and love it (it was discontinued). We're looking at doing the same because it's the smallest car with a sliding door. Buying used would also help with your concern about the cost of a new vehicle.
User avatar
bottlecap
Posts: 6906
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:21 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by bottlecap »

inbox788 wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:48 pm
Rick Rock wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:55 pm3 year old is tall and is starting to hit her head when I put her in her car seat in the sedan
Why not get rid of the car seat and get a booster, or figure out if you can do without the booster? (how tall is the 3 year old? what state? check with your highway patrol or pediatrician if you want a more official answer)
Please don't do this, even if the law says it's okay. There is no adult seat belt in the world that will properly fit a 3 year old. Besides, it's not like the booster seat is taking up any more room. But the 3 year old probably cant even use a booster right now.

Just get a minivan and get it over with.

Everyone I know that has gotten one loves them, even those that swore they'd hate it.

JT
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 17409
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by White Coat Investor »

Rick Rock wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:55 pm Question for the board - I've read quite a few of the recent SUV threads and am still trying to figure out the right vehicle for our family. We've just moved to the burbs from the city, have a sedan now and are running out of space in the car.

- We have two little ones (3 & 6 mos), the 3 year old is tall and is starting to hit her head when I put her in her car seat in the sedan, despite my best intentions. No more on the way in the near future.

- We've got a large double stroller now that is hell to wedge into the (empty) trunk of our car. Requires easy disassembly, I'm at work during the day and the whole process is pretty tough for my wife.

- We don't anticipate putting a ton of miles on this every year -- 10k annually max? Would like to get one before a Labor Day trip we take next month but no rush, we could always rent a larger SUV or van for this trip.

- Both my wife and I prefer driving in smaller cars so we'd like something on the smaller spectrum, that would still have room for the double stroller and a couple suitcases for our road trips to see family and explore. So the Pilot is a no go. Would a CRV get this done? Almost need something between the two... (doesn't have to be a Honda, just throwing that out to make the analogy)

- I struggle with budget on this a lot. We're in a good place financially but the concept of shelling out $30k for a car that will eventually be worthless is pretty difficult for me right now. When does leasing make sense? Or should I just bite the bullet and buy the consensus SUV?

- so we could pay $30k cash for this today.

- And happy to consider new or gently used. Would be very nice to be in warranty. (Used) XC60s don't look half bad.
Minivans are way cheaper and more practical than SUVs. If you don't care about your image, you don't need to tow, and you don't need 4WD, you'll almost surely come out ahead with a minivan. Not sure it qualifies as small for you, but it is smaller than the largest SUVs.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
inbox788
Posts: 8372
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by inbox788 »

bottlecap wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:57 pm
inbox788 wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:48 pm
Rick Rock wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:55 pm3 year old is tall and is starting to hit her head when I put her in her car seat in the sedan
Why not get rid of the car seat and get a booster, or figure out if you can do without the booster? (how tall is the 3 year old? what state? check with your highway patrol or pediatrician if you want a more official answer)
Please don't do this, even if the law says it's okay. There is no adult seat belt in the world that will properly fit a 3 year old. Besides, it's not like the booster seat is taking up any more room. But the 3 year old probably cant even use a booster right now.
I don't understand what you're objecting to. The child is clearly tall and has outgrown her car seat. There will be no optimal answer for extreme cases, but it's time to evaluate options. And a boosters seat may take up less room than the car seat. What if a 3 year old is exceedingly/world record tall and/or heavy, say 60 inches or 80 pounds? A minivan won't hurt, but it's unrealistic to suggest a new car every time there is some car seat issue (it might be a good spouse excuse to get a new car), and you've still got to deal with the realities of size, fit, legal matters, etc. I'm guessing it's already time for a booster seat and this tall girl will out grow that sooner than her peers. Good news is that there's probably a greater than 90% chance it doesn't make any difference at all.
iamlucky13
Posts: 3527
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by iamlucky13 »

White Coat Investor wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:08 pm Minivans are way cheaper and more practical than SUVs. If you don't care about your image, you don't need to tow, and you don't need 4WD, you'll almost surely come out ahead with a minivan. Not sure it qualifies as small for you, but it is smaller than the largest SUVs.
Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna, and Dodge Grand Caravan are actually all rated at around 3500 lbs towing capacity, compared to CR-V's 1500 lbs, and the Sienna is available in an AWD version.

I don't think any of them are cheaper than the CR-V, but their seating layouts, interior room, and sliding doors make them really versatile. And they are closer to the Honda Pilot in size, so probably not what the OP needs.
LeviMama
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:09 pm
Location: Weird Place, TX

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by LeviMama »

Please, please don't booster your 3-year old. A child that young does not have the emotional maturity to sit correctly in the seatbelt ALL the time, regardless of size. Please do some research on more appropriate booster age, probably 5 at minimum to start booster training for short distances. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's wise.

https://csftl.org/harness-or-booster-wh ... he-switch/

Have you looked at your car seats? Some sit very high, e.g. Clek and Britax convertibles, and if your 3-year old is already forward facing there may be lower profile forward facing only seats (combination vs convertible) that might make life easier. For a larger or taller than average child look at the Britax Frontier or Pioneer or the Graco Tranzitions or Wayz for example. Consider calling a local car seat tech for helpful suggestions when you narrow down your vehicle search line up. I would even go so far as to reccomended test installing your current or future car seat selections in all vehicles you test drive if they make it to a 2nd round test drive after the first adult makes a solo ride. We wouldn't purchase a car without testing seat installs, visibility over car seats etc. Amazon, same as for other big box retailers probably, is excellent about car seat returns as long as the tags haven't been removed etc.

A 30k budget is a generous one, for a new or certified pre owned luxury model if you so desire, so will not weigh in on which particular make and model of vehicle to select. I personally would not lease a vehicle for use with a little child, mine is 3, and can be particularly messy in the car even with daily clean ups and almost daily dust blustering of our stuff, food, dirty feet and shoes, water bottles, the occasional smuggled crayons or stickers, etc. Just be wary of the cars with overlapping seatbelts in the back if you plan on taking along a 3rd passenger. The Toyota Highlander and rav-4 have this issue. I'm not a minivan person, and if you've test driven a couple and haven't felt the love (the sliding doors are my only pang of envy), don't stress and focus on other vehicles that work for you. Searching for a car with little kids in tow is tedious at best, so I would encourage you to do as much research as you can beforehand on not just the vehicles but the actual car seats.
limeyx
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by limeyx »

BashDash wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:17 pm Going to be using the boglehead email method to get the best low price on a 2017 Highlander plus. Hoping to spend 35k. Little painful but we are in good shape and will put a lot of miles on it. Mileage not a huge concern as we save by commuting together daily. Please PM me any possible out the door prices anyone has seen recently. Hoping end of month helps. We have same age children as OP
We love our Highlander. Best buy ever...
ddurrett896
Posts: 1712
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by ddurrett896 »

Honda Pilot.

My wife sounds like you and we looked at the Highlander and Pilot then the full size Sequoia, Suburban. Didn't want a V8 so that nixed the last two. She like the Pilot more and it works well for our family of 5. Double stroller fits with ease.
chuckb84
Posts: 628
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:41 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by chuckb84 »

iamlucky13 wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:31 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:08 pm Minivans are way cheaper and more practical than SUVs. If you don't care about your image, you don't need to tow, and you don't need 4WD, you'll almost surely come out ahead with a minivan. Not sure it qualifies as small for you, but it is smaller than the largest SUVs.
Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna, and Dodge Grand Caravan are actually all rated at around 3500 lbs towing capacity, compared to CR-V's 1500 lbs, and the Sienna is available in an AWD version.

I don't think any of them are cheaper than the CR-V, but their seating layouts, interior room, and sliding doors make them really versatile. And they are closer to the Honda Pilot in size, so probably not what the OP needs.
I'm not sure it is still true, but for many years the Honda Odyssey and Pilot were essentially the same car, just with different sheet metal. The engine and transmission are the same.
2m2037
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 4:48 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by 2m2037 »

If I were you I would take the car seats and stroller to along with me when viewing cars and see how they fit.

In your price range, there're a range of cars you could go for.

I would say you don't need one that fits both the strollers and 2 suitcases. For road trips, rent. You're going to be using this car on a daily basis and for your daily needs you'd only require space for car seats and the stroller, plus both you and your wife prefer driving smaller cars.

Hope that helps.
User avatar
mmmodem
Posts: 2628
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 1:22 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by mmmodem »

Here's something out of the box for Bogleheads instead of buying Honda and Toyota: We have 2 toddlers and a baby living in the suburbs. Our double stroller also requires disassembly before fitting into our Prius. I absolutely abhor soul sucking SUV's that tip over with atrocious fuel economy but the vehicle is not for me, it's for DW. The image of a soccer mom driving a minivan was too much for DW. She found the happy medium in a Mitsubishi Outlander 3 row crossover CUV. It's a size class with 3 rows but smaller than a midsize Pilot SUV and larger than a compact CRV. The trunk is huge with the 3rd row folded. It's also 4 cylinder so that makes me happy. We average in the upper 20's mpg. We fit all three kids in car seats in the second row and the albeit tiny 3rd row can be used in a pinch when we have guests. The best thing of all, it's a Mitsubishi. No one buys Mitsubishi, the base model can be had for $22k new. We bought our 1 year used 2016 SE model for $16.7k.
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 17409
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by White Coat Investor »

iamlucky13 wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:31 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:08 pm Minivans are way cheaper and more practical than SUVs. If you don't care about your image, you don't need to tow, and you don't need 4WD, you'll almost surely come out ahead with a minivan. Not sure it qualifies as small for you, but it is smaller than the largest SUVs.
Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna, and Dodge Grand Caravan are actually all rated at around 3500 lbs towing capacity, compared to CR-V's 1500 lbs, and the Sienna is available in an AWD version.

I don't think any of them are cheaper than the CR-V, but their seating layouts, interior room, and sliding doors make them really versatile. And they are closer to the Honda Pilot in size, so probably not what the OP needs.
I guess if all you need to tow is 3500 lbs, then sure. :) I mean, you can tow with a corolla if the trailer is light enough.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Vanrnr
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:08 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by Vanrnr »

You must test the new Mazda CX 5. Awesome.
J295
Posts: 3401
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:40 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by J295 »

Purchaser rather than lease.

Whatever you obtain it will be battle tested over the years with kids, so don't get too excited about trying to keep it showroom new.

Maybe CPO is a good option.

Really, minivan is a pretty good idea (bucket seats because there will be a day when the best buddy siblings don't ride nicely next to each other for a long trip on a bench seat).
RudyS
Posts: 2821
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:11 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by RudyS »

Subaru Outback, for all the reasons given by previous posters. One point: Forrester is actually built on an SUV platform, rides a bit higher and rougher. Outback is a station wagon, built on car chassis. When we bought our 2015 Outback there was a difference in available driver aids but this has undoubtedly changed.
ThankYouJack
Posts: 5704
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by ThankYouJack »

I'm amazed with our Outback especially the AWD system and safety tech. I use it as a pretty legit SUV - towing, loading, off-road, tough road conditions, adventure and family trips. Probably the best car out there for us. Gas mileage doesn't seem to as expected and the interior tech could be a bit better, but it's a tough car to beat for the $.
lazydavid
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by lazydavid »

RudyS wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:37 pm One point: Forrester is actually built on an SUV platform, rides a bit higher and rougher. Outback is a station wagon, built on car chassis.
The bolded part is not true. The Forester is based on the Impreza sedan/wagon, while the Outback is based on the Legacy sedan (wagon long since discontinued). Subaru has never had a dedicated (or even primarily) SUV platform. Even the now-defunct Tribeca, which I would argue is the only true SUV-type vehicle they've ever sold, rode on a raised version of the Legacy platform.

That said, though I haven't personally sampled the Forester, the amount of space in the Outback borders on the absurd. I'm almost 6'5", and I can cross my legs in the backseat, a feat that is impossible in even the largest full-size SUVs (Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban/Expedition, etc). And then behind those seats is double the cargo space as compared to my wife's Lexus RX350. I can only assume the Forester has a similarly efficient use of space, just on a slightly smaller scale.
dbr
Posts: 46181
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:50 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by dbr »

lazydavid wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:16 am
RudyS wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:37 pm One point: Forrester is actually built on an SUV platform, rides a bit higher and rougher. Outback is a station wagon, built on car chassis.
The bolded part is not true. The Forester is based on the Impreza sedan/wagon, while the Outback is based on the Legacy sedan (wagon long since discontinued). Subaru has never had a dedicated (or even primarily) SUV platform. Even the now-defunct Tribeca, which I would argue is the only true SUV-type vehicle they've ever sold, rode on a raised version of the Legacy platform.
It is still true that most people seem to find the Forrester a little noisier and rougher riding and therefore sometimes choose the Outback for those reasons. The Forrester is a little easier on entry and exit, a little easier to see out of with both being good, a little shorter and easier to handle in congested spaces, and a little smaller inside.

I don't know anyone who owns either that is not quite happy with their choice.

I think if there is a preference you find on the enthusiast forums for either car it is in favor of buying the six cylinder version of the Outback. Actual sales figures are overwhelmingly for the four cylinder presumably due to fuel economy and low availability of the six.
User avatar
bottlecap
Posts: 6906
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:21 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by bottlecap »

inbox788 wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:36 pm
bottlecap wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:57 pm
inbox788 wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:48 pm
Rick Rock wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:55 pm3 year old is tall and is starting to hit her head when I put her in her car seat in the sedan
Why not get rid of the car seat and get a booster, or figure out if you can do without the booster? (how tall is the 3 year old? what state? check with your highway patrol or pediatrician if you want a more official answer)
Please don't do this, even if the law says it's okay. There is no adult seat belt in the world that will properly fit a 3 year old. Besides, it's not like the booster seat is taking up any more room. But the 3 year old probably cant even use a booster right now.
I don't understand what you're objecting to. The child is clearly tall and has outgrown her car seat. There will be no optimal answer for extreme cases, but it's time to evaluate options. And a boosters seat may take up less room than the car seat. What if a 3 year old is exceedingly/world record tall and/or heavy, say 60 inches or 80 pounds? A minivan won't hurt, but it's unrealistic to suggest a new car every time there is some car seat issue (it might be a good spouse excuse to get a new car), and you've still got to deal with the realities of size, fit, legal matters, etc. I'm guessing it's already time for a booster seat and this tall girl will out grow that sooner than her peers. Good news is that there's probably a greater than 90% chance it doesn't make any difference at all.
A booster is not a good idea. They do nothing unless the child is sitting correctly. A 3 year old doesn't have the maturity to sit correctly.

"Figuring out if you can do without the booster" is really, really not a good idea.

The child fits in the car. It just sounds like it's difficult to get her in the door.

I also don't think the OP anticipates getting a new vehicle every time there is a "car seat issue." The car has become inconvenient with children. People buy bigger cars all the time after having children for this very reason. Almost no one buys a minivan, for example, before they have children.

JT
lazydavid
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by lazydavid »

dbr wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:43 amIt is still true that most people seem to find the Forrester a little noisier and rougher riding and therefore sometimes choose the Outback for those reasons. The Forrester is a little easier on entry and exit, a little easier to see out of with both being good, a little shorter and easier to handle in congested spaces, and a little smaller inside.
Agreed. The Impreza platform is noticeably noisier and rougher-riding than the Legacy platform. This is the case across all of the Impreza-based models: Impreza, Impreza Sport, WRX, Forester, XV Crosstrek.
RudyS
Posts: 2821
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:11 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by RudyS »

lazydavid wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:16 am
RudyS wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:37 pm One point: Forrester is actually built on an SUV platform, rides a bit higher and rougher. Outback is a station wagon, built on car chassis.
The bolded part is not true. The Forester is based on the Impreza sedan/wagon, while the Outback is based on the Legacy sedan (wagon long since discontinued). Subaru has never had a dedicated (or even primarily) SUV platform. Even the now-defunct Tribeca, which I would argue is the only true SUV-type vehicle they've ever sold, rode on a raised version of the Legacy platform.

That said, though I haven't personally sampled the Forester, the amount of space in the Outback borders on the absurd. I'm almost 6'5", and I can cross my legs in the backseat, a feat that is impossible in even the largest full-size SUVs (Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban/Expedition, etc). And then behind those seats is double the cargo space as compared to my wife's Lexus RX350. I can only assume the Forester has a similarly efficient use of space, just on a slightly smaller scale.
My comment about the Forester being on an SUV platform comes from a conversation with the Subaru salesman when I bought my 2015 Outback. So, I shouldn't believe the car salesman? :wink: In any case, that seems to have changed in 2016 when Subaru said they were going to a single platform.
dbr
Posts: 46181
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:50 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by dbr »

RudyS wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:44 am
lazydavid wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:16 am
RudyS wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:37 pm One point: Forrester is actually built on an SUV platform, rides a bit higher and rougher. Outback is a station wagon, built on car chassis.
The bolded part is not true. The Forester is based on the Impreza sedan/wagon, while the Outback is based on the Legacy sedan (wagon long since discontinued). Subaru has never had a dedicated (or even primarily) SUV platform. Even the now-defunct Tribeca, which I would argue is the only true SUV-type vehicle they've ever sold, rode on a raised version of the Legacy platform.

That said, though I haven't personally sampled the Forester, the amount of space in the Outback borders on the absurd. I'm almost 6'5", and I can cross my legs in the backseat, a feat that is impossible in even the largest full-size SUVs (Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban/Expedition, etc). And then behind those seats is double the cargo space as compared to my wife's Lexus RX350. I can only assume the Forester has a similarly efficient use of space, just on a slightly smaller scale.
My comment about the Forester being on an SUV platform comes from a conversation with the Subaru salesman when I bought my 2015 Outback. So, I shouldn't believe the car salesman? :wink: In any case, that seems to have changed in 2016 when Subaru said they were going to a single platform.
I think SUV platform often or usually means a truck chassis derived from that manufacturers line of pick-up trucks. In particular the distinction would be the use of body on frame construction. When the vehicle uses unibody construction the term crossover SUV is used. I don't think Subaru has ever had a body on frame vehicle nor have they ever sold a light truck, depending on what you think a Baja is, but it is not a body on frame construction.
lazydavid
Posts: 5155
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by lazydavid »

RudyS wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:44 am My comment about the Forester being on an SUV platform comes from a conversation with the Subaru salesman when I bought my 2015 Outback. So, I shouldn't believe the car salesman? :wink: In any case, that seems to have changed in 2016 when Subaru said they were going to a single platform.
Indeed, never believe a car salesman. :) Yes, Subaru is in the process of moving all of their production to a single Global platform. The 2017 Impreza is the first vehicle on this new platform. The current Forester was introduced in 2014 and is still on the old Impreza platform. The Outback was new in 2015 and is still on the Legacy platform. The giant 8-seat Ascent SUV will be the second vehicle introduced on the new Global platform.
inbox788
Posts: 8372
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by inbox788 »

bottlecap wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:48 amA booster is not a good idea. They do nothing unless the child is sitting correctly. A 3 year old doesn't have the maturity to sit correctly.

"Figuring out if you can do without the booster" is really, really not a good idea.

The child fits in the car. It just sounds like it's difficult to get her in the door.
I'll concede a booster isn't generally a good idea with a young child, but my point is that this is a transient period and it seems OP has an outlier child that doesn't easily in a standard solution. If/when a child bumps up to the roof (with a low booster), what is a parent to do? Sometimes, we're forced to make compromises. You might say that most or most all 3 year olds aren't mature enough to use a booster, but what if in this specific case, the 3 year old were capable? Wouldn't the booster then become a viable solution? And while the general sentiment seems to be at least 5 years old for a booster, some opinions seems satisfied that 4 year old is the time to begin boosters (again if the child is mature enough to handle it. Are MOST 5 years olds mature enough to use a booster?) If the tall child is truly just turned 3, then the 1 year period to 4 years old is quite long and problematic, but if the child is 3 nearly turning 4 soon, then keeping the child in the current car seat for another 3 months and considering a booster at age 4 becomes a more viable solution or it may still not work out and we have (literally) a bigger problem.

OP, what type of sedan is currently being driven? How tall is the child? Sitting height? Height of current car seat (brand/model)? I checked out the specs of a Prius, which is often criticized for having poor headroom, and it reports a measure of 37", which is typical for many rear seats (vs. around 39" for front seats). A new SUV, which seems to be where OP is heading may not add too much to that dimension. How much time are you buying before height again becomes a limiting factor?

I'm focusing on this height issue because OP mentioned it an issue (along with storing stroller -- also a transient problem), but in reality, it could simply be an excuse to purchase a new SUV. If height is the problem, there is a wide variety of solutions to consider, including out of the box solutions that might not have been considered, that may be satisfactory. Here's one more that IMO isn't a good idea (expensive, looks like it's more difficult to use), but may not be a terribly bad idea (vs. a less safe or unsafe choice), and in rare extreme cases (i.e. very tall or very heavy kids), may be the most workable solution.
https://ridesafertravelvest.com/
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/new ... /index.htm
hushpuppy
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:33 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by hushpuppy »

delete
Last edited by hushpuppy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Two dogs are better than one. One dog needs to have at least one companion that can consistently measure up to standards. Humans need not apply.
User avatar
vinvedi
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:22 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by vinvedi »

I was in the market for a new sedan/SUV so considered Subaru seriously. Drove Outback/Legacy/Forester. All OK but with substantial compromises in terms of ride quality, refinements, gadgets, etc. I also did not find the safety rating exceptionaI. Therefore, I made a decision not to buy this brand. I don't buy cars to keep them for ten or fifteen years and used car prices are not high in my decision-making process. "each to their own"
Beehave
Posts: 1166
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by Beehave »

Get a minivan. Living in the suburbs you and your wife WILL be carpooling to school, scouting, sports, and parties. You will come to value a large, reliable, roomy, safe three row vehicle as a necessity. Get a Toyota Sienna (rock solid reliable, very safe) or Honda Odyssey (rock solid safe, reliable).
If you buy a two row SUV you will be trading it (or your sedan) in for a larger vehicle a couple of years. Go practical and get the minivan. Testosterone levels are not affected by less practical more macho SUV vs more practical less macho minivan.
BTW, in the past Toyota dealers have been much more ready to wheel and deal significantly below sticker (and invoice) prices than Honda dealers (in my experience).
User avatar
Geneyus
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by Geneyus »

I would go with the Subaru Outback or the new Toyota Highlander. I believe the latest Highlander is a little bit smaller than previous models (at least in appearance), and Toyotas are very reliable.
bob60014
Posts: 3768
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:59 pm
Location: The Land Beyond ORD

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by bob60014 »

Just remember that stroller won't be around forever!
runner3081
Posts: 5993
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by runner3081 »

Rick Rock wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:55 pm - We have two little ones (3 & 6 mos), the 3 year old is tall and is starting to hit her head when I put her in her car seat in the sedan, despite my best intentions. No more on the way in the near future.
If she isn't already, the 3 year old will soon be climbing into the car on her own. That problem will solve itself. Even in our SUV, I kept hitting our daughter's head on the roof until she could climb up herself.
User avatar
Alto Astral
Posts: 970
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:47 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by Alto Astral »

Does the Prius-V fit your bill? Its slightly smaller than the Outback but more fuel efficient.
MrNewEngland
Posts: 807
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:38 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by MrNewEngland »

Nissan Armadas are awesome.
User avatar
jabberwockOG
Posts: 3087
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:23 am

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by jabberwockOG »

If you can stretch the budget it is tough to beat a Toyota Highlander.
User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 8525
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Iowa

Re: SUV thread (with a twist)

Post by lthenderson »

Rick Rock wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:55 pm - We've got a large double stroller now that is hell to wedge into the (empty) trunk of our car. Requires easy disassembly, I'm at work during the day and the whole process is pretty tough for my wife.
I would recommend looking into canvas and aluminum tube umbrella strollers. They take up MUCH MUCH less space compared to those plastic behemoths. They even make double versions of them as well. We were gifted one of those large plastic ones but eventually gave it away and just used the umbrella one which folded up easily to the size of one of the modern folding lawn chairs in a bag.

We have both a small SUV (AWD Rav4) and a minivan (AWD Sienna) in our household with two kids and we much prefer the Sienna over the Rav4. We are an active family so it is nice to toss several bikes and such in the back to drive somewhere for a family outing. The cargo area of the Rav4 is microscoping compared to the minivan with the third row seats folded down. Both being AWD, they handle well in all kinds of conditions but the minivan rides much much smoother than the SUV. With the minivan we can pick up grandparents or kids friends and all go together which we can't do with the small SUV. The visibility out the back of the Rav4 (don't know about others) is pretty terrible these days. Backup camera help that situation but the minivan has much better visibility so although it is technically bigger, it doesn't feel like it. Minivans come with motorized side doors these days which allow the kiddos to let themselves into the vehicle without my intervention. My 4 year old opens the door, closes it and gets buckled into her car seat all by herself these days. I only have to help her press the seat belt button to get out when we get where we are going. Finally, with two kids myself, I really enjoy long trips in the minivan simply because the distance between me and the kids is greater than in the Rav4, i.e. volume-wise.
Post Reply