Exhaust Fan for the bathroom

[ved]

I am having my bathroom painted. he painter said that the spots of mildew are because the exhaust is not powerful enough to suck up the moisture, and said that I should get it replaced.

Any suggestions on what to go with? House is about 20 years old.
And is it easy to install this, or should I call a handyman? (I am not that handy)

[TomatoTomahto]

We are pleased with the Panasonic fans we installed; they are very quiet. I wound not do this myself, but then again I have 10 thumbs.

[ved]

Thanks Tomato.

Do you know where you got it from? And the model, if you have?

[Rupert]

Just replacing the fan where an existing fan is located could be a DIY project for a not-terribly-handy person IF the new fan fits in the hole left by the old fan. If, however, you have to replace venting (or properly vent the fan for the first time as it's possible the old fan isn't properly vented if it isn't working well), have to cut a larger hole for the new fan, or have to move the fan to a new location, then I recommend hiring a professional. Either a handyman or electrician can install a fan. If you want it properly vented, consult an HVAC professional, e.g., the company that maintains your HVAC system. Make sure it's vented to the outside, not to your attic.

Panasonic fans are widely regarded as the best on the market. They're super quiet, but pricey. I recently installed a Delta Breez in a tight spot (It had to go on a wall, not in the ceiling), and it works great. I bought the Delta Breez at Amazon. Stay away from low-end Broans, which is what you typically find at big-box stores. The size fan you need depends on the size of the room. Google is your friend in figuring out what size you need.

[user5027]

I always went for the noisiest fan. There are times you want a constant drone to block out an occasional outburst.

[mhc]

I researched this recently. There are plenty of videos to show how to install a fan. You can watch the videos and determine for yourself if this is a project you can and want to do.

I would suggest reading the reviews on Amazon or Home Depot to determine the proper fan for your bathroom.

If your fan is working, can't you just run the fan longer to remove the moisture from the bathroom?

[TomatoTomahto]

I always went for the noisiest fan. There are times you want a constant drone to block out an occasional outburst.

[Rupert]

I researched this recently. There are plenty of videos to show how to install a fan. You can watch the videos and determine for yourself if this is a project you can and want to do.

I would suggest reading the reviews on Amazon or Home Depot to determine the proper fan for your bathroom.

If your fan is working, can't you just run the fan longer to remove the moisture from the bathroom?

If the existing fan is the contractor-grade Broan installed when the house was built, then, no, running it longer won't accomplish anything. All the thing does is make noise. Kinda like a cheap subcompact that just gets louder when you depress the gas, not faster.

[mrc]

If the duct is undersized, or blocked you will have problems with noise and efficacy. Exhaust fans need intake air as well (we crack the door after a shower) and let the fan run for a little while on a timer.

Websites exist to help you compute CFM you need. Then get the quietest one (sones) at that CFM or better. Our the loudest if that's how you roll.

[neilpilot]

In several of our bathrooms, I've installed simple timer switch on the fans. That allows the fan to be run for 5-30 min, as the user selects. Much better than shutting the fan off when it should still be run or leaving it on indefinitely. Here are a few to consider:

https://www.amazon.com/Woods-59007WD-30 ... mer+switch

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/3292/ ... 3XEALw_wcB

[123]

I always went for the noisiest fan. There are times you want a constant drone to block out an occasional outburst.

+1 This is an important consideration depending on other factors like location of bathroom. I think the phrase "occasional outburst" is an exceptionally intelligent and creative way to express the thought.

[fposte]

I think the phrase "occasional outburst" is an exceptionally intelligent and creative way to express the thought.

The official term of art for that coverage is "acoustical privacy."

[mrc]

I think the phrase "occasional outburst" is an exceptionally intelligent and creative way to express the thought.

The official term of art for that coverage is "acoustical privacy."

It's not just the sound I'd like to remain private.

[fposte]

I think the phrase "occasional outburst" is an exceptionally intelligent and creative way to express the thought.

The official term of art for that coverage is "acoustical privacy."

It's not just the sound I'd like to remain private.

Ah, fair point. Olfactory privacy?

[sport]

In several of our bathrooms, I've installed simple timer switch on the fans. That allows the fan to be run for 5-30 min, as the user selects. Much better than shutting the fan off when it should still be run or leaving it on indefinitely.

This is an important point. Perhaps your problem is caused by not running the fan long enough, not the size of the fan. As long as it is working, an old fan should move just as much air as a new one. I also installed a timer switch that I bought at Home Depot.

[ralph124cf]

Fan volume and duct size are most important. Check for blockage of the duct, I have seen birds nests blocking some fan outlets.

Ralph

[pshonore]

Also the type of duct makes a difference. If you're in a cold climate and use flexible duct work in an unheated space, the liquid can condense in cold weather, cause the duct to sink and block flow. Solid pipe with a slight pitch will prevent that. Is there easy access to the space above the bathroom?

[mancich]

Panasonic, as several posters have already said. We use the large one (300 CFM?) and it works great, and is very quiet.

[Kosmo]

I installed one a few months back that I bought at Costco. I don't offhand recall the maker. It has a humidity sensing mode, so it'll kick on if humidity is above 60%. The only catch is it'll toggle on and off for multiple cycles if the humidity remains near 60%. It also has a full on mode. Relatively quiet, has an LED light. I have a 2nd one to install, but that one will be in a more challenging location, so I'm putting it off.

Replacing an existing fan is a bit easier than installing new. But you might still need to climb into the attic for one or more of: screwing the fan to the joist, connecting electrical, connecting/taping the duct. Definitely clean out the duct first before you connect it to the new fan.

[Chip]

I also bought a Panasonic. Very quiet compared to the builder grade Broan it replaced.

I'm pretty handy and installed it myself, but it was anything but easy. The instructions lead you to believe that it can be installed from the bathroom side without any drywall work but that is patently false. I ended up installing it from above and using most of my extensive curse word vocabulary.

Agree with other posters about buying a timer. I bought something similar to this one, mainly because the LEDs act as a desirable night light. I set it to run 20 minutes, which gives 10+ minutes extra run time after a shower.

I also agree to have the ductwork and vent checked. We had some genius outside painters who painted the outdoor vent louvers shut. It created this unbelievably loud buffetting noise throughout the house. Kind of similar to the wind noise you get if you partially roll down the rear windows on most modern sedans.

[abner kravitz]

I am not sure a painter is the right person to diagnose the problem, but anyhow, I would have an electrician replace the fan if necessary. In my experience, stuff tends to get really corroded and hard to work on in moist environments. Using a different model than the original brings new issues.

[tomd37]

When it comes time for replacement, do building codes come into play? Local codes could have changed since the original installation and I think new codes, if any, would have to be followed. Anyone familiar with such requirement? Surely an electrician installing a new fan would be.

[mrc]

When it comes time for replacement, do building codes come into play? Local codes could have changed since the original installation and I think new codes, if any, would have to be followed. Anyone familiar with such requirement? Surely an electrician installing a new fan would be.

That's a good point. The bathroom fans in our house (used to) exit into an unfinished floor-insulated attic, and NOT to daylight. House built in the mid 80s, and I don't believe that is allowed under code now. May not have been then, but code enforcement is a whole other topic. Especially if you live in a cold climate, don't vent hot moist air into your cold dry attic. The resulting condensation will pool, freeze, and can drip into drywall below.

Oh, and in these parts you don't have to follow code updates for replacements. Though it pays to remember that code is the poorest quality construction allowed.

[limeyx]

I am not so happy with our Home Depot "own brand?" fans we installed (Hampton Bay) and are not so happy.

They were advertised as being very quiet but are actually quite loud.

At least no need for courtesy flushing to avoid fart noises though I guess ...

[limeyx]

I always went for the noisiest fan. There are times you want a constant drone to block out an occasional outburst.

+1 This is an important consideration depending on other factors like location of bathroom. I think the phrase "occasional outburst" is an exceptionally intelligent and creative way to express the thought.

+2

[limeyx]

In several of our bathrooms, I've installed simple timer switch on the fans. That allows the fan to be run for 5-30 min, as the user selects. Much better than shutting the fan off when it should still be run or leaving it on indefinitely.

This is an important point. Perhaps your problem is caused by not running the fan long enough, not the size of the fan. As long as it is working, an old fan should move just as much air as a new one. I also installed a timer switch that I bought at Home Depot.

+1 for timers

[Rupert]

When it comes time for replacement, do building codes come into play? Local codes could have changed since the original installation and I think new codes, if any, would have to be followed. Anyone familiar with such requirement? Surely an electrician installing a new fan would be.

I don't think you need a permit to replace an existing bathroom fan, but as a PP noted, it's foolish to not update your venting, if needed, during the process. You'll pay plenty for that decision later.

[tomd37]

mrc & Rupert
I agree permit is not required, but I know when I replaced the combination light/fan in two upstairs bathrooms five years ago as part of a major renovation, the contractor said the new installation would have to be in accordance with the newer codes and they would have to be vented directly to the outside which meant adding some flex tubing and going through the attic to an outside soffit. Our downstairs powder room vent fan seems to go nowhere and I have not bothered to remedy that situation for the time being.

[neilpilot]

So let's say the OP's fan is working fine but half the desired capacity. He can replace the fan with one that has double his fan's capacity, and the job would probably not be too bad ASSUMING that the exhaust plenum was adequate. Or, for under $20, he could add a timer and routinely run the fan twice as long, which should move the same volume of air as the new fan.

Of course, if you go with the existing fan & timer option, and that didn't work out, you've spent very little time and money. You could then go ahead and change the fan.

Which option makes the most sense?

[mrc]

mrc & Rupert
<snip>Our downstairs powder room vent fan seems to go nowhere and I have not bothered to remedy that situation for the time being.

Same here! Another one of those builder's screws. Like the chimney that vented into the attic of several townhouses nearby. That was quite a fire.

It's only a half bath, so it's a limited humidity load, but still ...

[neilpilot]

When I did the kitchen renovation in my last home, I moved the existing range hood to accommodate the new gas range. When I removed the old hood, found that the hood vented to the space between the kitchen ceiling and the 2nd story floor. It had been like that for 25 years, and we didn't have a clue (just assumed it vented up into the attic or out the roof. I ended up running a new duct through the outside wall.

Point is, the original code inspector either didn't look or didn't care.

[lthenderson]

I go for a different approach to the problem. I buy inline exhaust fans that mount up in the attic and you just connect the venting to your old exhaust fan. I usually remove the impeller blade of the old exhaust fan. Not only does it suck two or three times more air out of the bathroom to the point I never get any condensation on the mirrors after the longest hot shower, but I can't hear a whisper since the noisy emanating part is mounted up in the attic. It has the added advantage of leaving the old fan body/grill in place so you don't have to worry about finding something to work with an odd hole. I buy the Air King brand.

[michaeljc70]

I installed a Panasonic and it is very quiet and has good airflow.

The problem is, they are usually mounted to a ceiling joist. You will most likely not be able to get it out without tearing open the ceiling a little. I've tried to replace 2 in 2 different bathrooms. Both I wound up having to take apart a small part of the ceiling. One the electrical was on the opposite side of the original and I had to modify the electrical slightly.

If you are very lucky, you may be able to find a replacement that fits in the current fan's housing. I doubt it though.

Like someone else mentioned, I have timer switches on both fans to leave it on after I shower.

[TomatoTomahto]

I go for a different approach to the problem. I buy inline exhaust fans that mount up in the attic and you just connect the venting to your old exhaust fan. I usually remove the impeller blade of the old exhaust fan. Not only does it suck two or three times more air out of the bathroom to the point I never get any condensation on the mirrors after the longest hot shower, but I can't hear a whisper since the noisy emanating part is mounted up in the attic. It has the added advantage of leaving the old fan body/grill in place so you don't have to worry about finding something to work with an odd hole. I buy the Air King brand.

I think the Panasonics mount in the attic; at least, mine do.

[michaeljc70]

I go for a different approach to the problem. I buy inline exhaust fans that mount up in the attic and you just connect the venting to your old exhaust fan. I usually remove the impeller blade of the old exhaust fan. Not only does it suck two or three times more air out of the bathroom to the point I never get any condensation on the mirrors after the longest hot shower, but I can't hear a whisper since the noisy emanating part is mounted up in the attic. It has the added advantage of leaving the old fan body/grill in place so you don't have to worry about finding something to work with an odd hole. I buy the Air King brand.

I think the Panasonics mount in the attic; at least, mine do.

This is what I used and it mounted in the bathroom ceiling:

Panasonic FV-11VQ5 White WhisperCeiling 110 CFM 0.3 Sone Ceiling Mounted Energy Star Rated Bath Fan with 4" Duct Diameter

.3 Sone is a very quiet fan.

[lthenderson]

I go for a different approach to the problem. I buy inline exhaust fans that mount up in the attic and you just connect the venting to your old exhaust fan. I usually remove the impeller blade of the old exhaust fan. Not only does it suck two or three times more air out of the bathroom to the point I never get any condensation on the mirrors after the longest hot shower, but I can't hear a whisper since the noisy emanating part is mounted up in the attic. It has the added advantage of leaving the old fan body/grill in place so you don't have to worry about finding something to work with an odd hole. I buy the Air King brand.

I think the Panasonics mount in the attic; at least, mine do.

This is what I used and it mounted in the bathroom ceiling:

Panasonic FV-11VQ5 White WhisperCeiling 110 CFM 0.3 Sone Ceiling Mounted Energy Star Rated Bath Fan with 4" Duct Diameter

.3 Sone is a very quiet fan.

To eliminate confusion, what I am talking about doesn't mount to the bathroom ceiling. It can be mounted 20 feet away from the bathroom at a convenient point in your attic. It is connected to the old bathroom vent fan body by flexible exhaust tubing or one can purchase special grills of a 100 different shapes and styles if you want a new hole in your ceiling. Because it is not mounted to the bathroom ceiling, you don't have to worry about fit in existing holes and you don't hear any noise other than the subtle noise of humid air being sucked at high speed through the grill of the old exhaust fan. As part of the kit, it comes with a backflow damper as well to prevent air from escaping when the fan is not turned on.

[MtS1979]

Please take into account any building code that is valid for your state/city. In the Netherlands, where I live, the national building code states that a bathroom will require at least 14L/s ventilation per m² surface area. Like Rupert is saying, I suggest that you contact a HVAC specialist. Any HVAC specialist in your area should be able to tell you the local regulations.

If your bathroom is 2 x 2m you would need 56L/s ventilation, which is 118 CFM. A 110CFM unit will not suffice, especially if that unit is also drawing from toilets or a kitchen.

[pshonore]

Please take into account any building code that is valid for your state/city. In the Netherlands, where I live, the national building code states that a bathroom will require at least 14L/s ventilation per m² surface area. Like Rupert is saying, I suggest that you contact a HVAC specialist. Any HVAC specialist in your area should be able to tell you the local regulations.

If your bathroom is 2 x 2m you would need 56L/s ventilation, which is 118 CFM. A 110CFM unit will not suffice, especially if that unit is also drawing from toilets or a kitchen.

Note that in most places, venting is only required if you don't have a window in the bathroom. However a fan is certainly more convenient in cold weather.

[michaeljc70]

I go for a different approach to the problem. I buy inline exhaust fans that mount up in the attic and you just connect the venting to your old exhaust fan. I usually remove the impeller blade of the old exhaust fan. Not only does it suck two or three times more air out of the bathroom to the point I never get any condensation on the mirrors after the longest hot shower, but I can't hear a whisper since the noisy emanating part is mounted up in the attic. It has the added advantage of leaving the old fan body/grill in place so you don't have to worry about finding something to work with an odd hole. I buy the Air King brand.

I think the Panasonics mount in the attic; at least, mine do.

This is what I used and it mounted in the bathroom ceiling:

Panasonic FV-11VQ5 White WhisperCeiling 110 CFM 0.3 Sone Ceiling Mounted Energy Star Rated Bath Fan with 4" Duct Diameter

.3 Sone is a very quiet fan.

To eliminate confusion, what I am talking about doesn't mount to the bathroom ceiling. It can be mounted 20 feet away from the bathroom at a convenient point in your attic. It is connected to the old bathroom vent fan body by flexible exhaust tubing or one can purchase special grills of a 100 different shapes and styles if you want a new hole in your ceiling. Because it is not mounted to the bathroom ceiling, you don't have to worry about fit in existing holes and you don't hear any noise other than the subtle noise of humid air being sucked at high speed through the grill of the old exhaust fan. As part of the kit, it comes with a backflow damper as well to prevent air from escaping when the fan is not turned on.

I understand what you are talking about. But the OP seemed to want a DIY solution. Relocating the fan seems like a much bigger project (assuming you have an attic which I don't). How do you control the fan in the attic? That seems to require new electrical wiring.

If he does have access to the fan from an attic, the replacement becomes much easier.

[TomatoTomahto]

Also the type of duct makes a difference. If you're in a cold climate and use flexible duct work in an unheated space, the liquid can condense in cold weather, cause the duct to sink and block flow. Solid pipe with a slight pitch will prevent that. Is there easy access to the space above the bathroom?

I think this is our situation. What kind of worker should I call to fix this? Is this a job for a plumber, HVAC, handyman?

[Rupert]

Also the type of duct makes a difference. If you're in a cold climate and use flexible duct work in an unheated space, the liquid can condense in cold weather, cause the duct to sink and block flow. Solid pipe with a slight pitch will prevent that. Is there easy access to the space above the bathroom?

I think this is our situation. What kind of worker should I call to fix this? Is this a job for a plumber, HVAC, handyman?

HVAC

[Rupert]

So let's say the OP's fan is working fine but half the desired capacity. He can replace the fan with one that has double his fan's capacity, and the job would probably not be too bad ASSUMING that the exhaust plenum was adequate. Or, for under $20, he could add a timer and routinely run the fan twice as long, which should move the same volume of air as the new fan.

Of course, if you go with the existing fan & timer option, and that didn't work out, you've spent very little time and money. You could then go ahead and change the fan.

Which option makes the most sense?

I'm not opposed to timers at all. But running a 20-year-old, under-sized fan longer is going to cost OP money in the form of higher electric bills. Given the age of the unit, the most cost-effective long-term solution would be to buy a new, Energy-Star-rated, appropriately-sized fan for the room and update the venting if that is needed. In many places 20 years ago, code permitted such fans to be vented to unfinished attic, crawl, and basement space. That's not permitted today and is not a good practice. So OP should take the opportunity to have the unit inspected and brought up to code.

OP, just fyi: One quick and easy way to determine if your fan is meeting even minimal specs (50 cfm) is to hold a square of toilet paper in front of the fan. If it's pulling at least 50 cfm, the square of toilet paper should stick to the fan face and stay there while the fan is running. If the paper doesn't stick to the fan, then your fan is very seriously underpowered and/or not properly vented.

[chickadee]

How big a job would it be to install new fans and also vent to the outside? Our 1982 house just vents into the attic. Not a cold climate. But this has always bugged me. Now, one of the two Broan fans is dead. I could replace it with a new Broan so it fit the hole. OR I could see about getting nicer fans and also installing proper venting. Who do you call to do duct venting through the roof? Is this an HVAC guy? Roofing guy?

[Rupert]

How big a job would it be to install new fans and also vent to the outside? Our 1982 house just vents into the attic. Not a cold climate. But this has always bugged me. Now, one of the two Broan fans is dead. I could replace it with a new Broan so it fit the hole. OR I could see about getting nicer fans and also installing proper venting. Who do you call to do duct venting through the roof? Is this an HVAC guy? Roofing guy?

I would call an HVAC guy. Venting through a soffit or wall might be preferable to venting through the roof. The goal should be to keep the run as short as possible. So you need a guy who can look and evaluate what would be best, i.e., a guy who runs duct for a living. If you call a roof guy, he's just gonna vent through the roof.

[chickadee]

It would be preferable to tear into my Hardi Plank rather than the roof? I think that would be unsightly. I'll call the HVAC guy though.

[takeshi]

Any suggestions on what to go with? House is about 20 years old.
And is it easy to install this, or should I call a handyman? (I am not that handy)

+1 for Panasonic. They're not all equally quiet but look for the WhisperCeiling line and carefully check the specs. You may need/want to upgrade the ducting to fully benefit from a newer fan. I'd suggest hiring a pro in your case.

[Doug E. Dee]

When is the last time you pulled the grill off and vacuumed it and the fan blades? Ours gets pretty caked up with dust which reduces air flow.

Another tip is to crack the window (if you have one) while showering so the fan has an easy place to pull from. In the winter, I leave the bathroom door open while showering which adds needed humidity to the rest of the house. Cold, dry winters here in NH.

[inbox788]

When is the last time you pulled the grill off and vacuumed it and the fan blades? Ours gets pretty caked up with dust which reduces air flow.

Another tip is to crack the window (if you have one) while showering so the fan has an easy place to pull from. In the winter, I leave the bathroom door open while showering which adds needed humidity to the rest of the house. Cold, dry winters here in NH.

Has the fan been changed in the last 20 years? A good cleaning as suggested might help. Someone mentioned a timer, and using a longer interval might be sufficient to reduce the mildew. Run the fan during the use of the shower AND for 10-20 minutes afterwards. You may need to do this with a new fan anyways, and a 20 year old fan could fail anytime. But if the solution is to run the timer longer, a fan replacement may not be immediately necessary. OP, can you install a timer DIY?

[yolli71]

I am having my bathroom painted. he painter said that the spots of mildew are because the exhaust is not powerful enough to suck up the moisture, and said that I should get it replaced.

Any suggestions on what to go with? House is about 20 years old.
And is it easy to install this, or should I call a handyman? (I am not that handy)

We had the same problem and this is the one we bought: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003U ... UTF8&psc=1

Panasonic and it works great. If you're not handy, I'd have an electrician install it.

[lthenderson]

I understand what you are talking about. But the OP seemed to want a DIY solution. Relocating the fan seems like a much bigger project (assuming you have an attic which I don't). How do you control the fan in the attic? That seems to require new electrical wiring.

There is no relocation. You merely screw the inline fan to a convenient spot in the attic, extend the wires from the old fan to the new fan so that the same switch controls it (in my case I spliced in a six foot chunk of wiring I had from a previous project) and then hook up your exhaust lines.