Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

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dm200
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Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by dm200 »

I have never been a "victim", but I read a lot about use of card skimmers at gasoline pumps. A local station (but not one I use) has recently been identified as being hit.

Any knowledge or experience in finding one on gas pumps?
mnaspbh
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by mnaspbh »

Skimmers are so sophisticated that it's getting very hard even for savvy users to spot them. Many are getting installed deep inside the card readers so there's little to no external sign--without disassembling the machine, you can't tell they're there. Needless to say, merchants won't appreciate consumers trying to disassemble their gas pumps, ATMs, and credit terminals...

Older-style skimmers can be spotted by inconsistencies in the housings of the credit card slot, by a tiny hole facing a keypad (used by a camera to steal PINs at ATMs), or by keypads, bevels, or housings that aren't molded directly into the machine. Tugging on the housing, keypad, etc, can sometimes reveal if it's a skimmer attachment; it may give (or come off!) whereas a non-skimmer should be completely solid.

For a whole lot of information about skimmers, including pictures that show just how good they've gotten, see the Krebs on Security article series on skimmers.
surfstar
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by surfstar »

0

another thing with "zero" - credit card fraud liability. Leaves me with much better things to worry about.

I would not use a debit/ATM card, only use a CC that gives you 3%+ cashback on gas, and never think twice of the issue.
investor997
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by investor997 »

I got a call from a detective at my hometown police department one day saying my card may have been compromised at a local gas station. He told me there were skimmers installed inside the machine and were in no way visible from the exterior.

Bottom line: Stick to credit cards. They cover the liability. Never use debit cards.
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flamesabers
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by flamesabers »

If you want to avoid the issue entirely, just pay inside instead of at the pump. I do this not because I'm worried about card skimmers, but because I have gas coupons to use.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

If the skimming devices are installed "deep inside" that seems to me to indicate an inside job, thru the pump provider or the card reader provider.

Who/how/when could an activity take place?

Granted, some gas stations aren't open 24X7, but the last problem with skimming I'm aware of was at a station that is open 24X7.

Wife's card was hit, immediately used for shopping trips at two Publix stores. At least they appreciated Publix's quality! :oops:

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munemaker
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by munemaker »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:46 pm If the skimming devices are installed "deep inside" that seems to me to indicate an inside job, thru the pump provider or the card reader provider.

Who/how/when could an activity take place?

Granted, some gas stations aren't open 24X7, but the last problem with skimming I'm aware of was at a station that is open 24X7.


Broken Man 1999
A few months ago, I noticed the convenience store chain where I buy my gasoline installed tamper-proof seals on their pumps...the type that break if the pump is opened up. I knew right away it was to prevent skimmers from being installed inside the pumps. The location I usually deal with is not open 24 hours, but I think this chain has some locations that are.
mnaspbh
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by mnaspbh »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:46 pm If the skimming devices are installed "deep inside" that seems to me to indicate an inside job, thru the pump provider or the card reader provider.

Who/how/when could an activity take place?
Some skimmers can be inserted into the inner workings of the card reader from the outside, but I think it's more common for scammers to pose as (or bribe/hire) maintenance workers who are supposed to be opening up the card readers anyway.

Some merchant point of sale terminals were compromised before being shipped to merchants, or the entire units were replaced by fraudulent ones.
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Pajamas
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by Pajamas »

flamesabers wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:42 pm If you want to avoid the issue entirely, just pay inside instead of at the pump.
Cash registers and manned credit card terminals have been similarly compromised and anyone who handles your credit card could steal the information and misuse it.
renue74
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by renue74 »

I just had this discussion a few days ago with a friend. He said that skimmers were rampant in our town according to his police detective brother-in-law.

One thing he suggested was to use the Exxon SpeedPass app. You download it, add your credit card and then scan a QR code when you buy gas at Exxon. (There's an Exxon at the end of our neighborhood that I frequently use.)

I'm going to try that.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by orlandoman »

FYI, I was told that the COSTCO gas attendant checks each pump once an hour. I was curious & asked my local COSTCO.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by flamesabers »

Pajamas wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:04 pm
flamesabers wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:42 pm If you want to avoid the issue entirely, just pay inside instead of at the pump.
Cash registers and manned credit card terminals have been similarly compromised and anyone who handles your credit card could steal the information and misuse it.
I meant the issue of card skimmers, not card fraud entirely. Gas pumps and ATMs are far more practical targets for thieves to install card skimmers on then terminals that are only available during business hours. Another consideration is not everyone uses a card to pay for stuff at a cash register, but everyone who utilizes ATMs and pays at the pump will be using a card.
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Pajamas
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by Pajamas »

Manned registers may not be as likely to have skimmers but they can still have them. The first one linked to below would be less likely to be undetected than an overlay as shown in the second link, so in some ways the risk is higher.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/10/nor ... -skimmers/

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/02/saf ... -close-up/
anil686
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by anil686 »

Some gas station is now accept contactless payment such as Apple Pay or android pay. This may also be a solution if you use a gas station like that...
runner3081
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by runner3081 »

I would worry more about your credit card disappearing at a restaurant for 5+ minutes than a skimmer at a gas station.

Skimmers are reason number 583 to never used a debit card!
squirm
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by squirm »

I only use credit cards, so i couldn't careless about skimmers in gas and grocery store terminals. Only place i use my atm is the bank atm.
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Watty
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by Watty »

Other than gas pumps I think it has been around six months since I made a credit card purchase that was not using the chip.

I have never seen a gas pump uses the credit card chip. I wonder why they are so far behind on that.
runner3081
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by runner3081 »

Watty wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:50 pm I have never seen a gas pump uses the credit card chip. I wonder why they are so far behind on that.
The requirement that pushes liability to the merchant on fuel pumps and ATM's does not kick in until October 2020. In other words, you won't see it until shortly before that time.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/12/01/ga ... ards-2020/
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by mbres60 »

orlandoman wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:09 pm FYI, I was told that the COSTCO gas attendant checks each pump once an hour. I was curious & asked my local COSTCO.
I hope their checking is better than them helping to direct traffic to the pumps. Our Costco is quite busy and some people don't pull forward to the first pump when it is empty. Instead they sit and wait for the person at the back pump to finish and then they pull up. I never see the attendants do anything about it. Meanwhile the lines are long waiting for a pump.

Also, many responses seem to indicate that you can't tell from the outside that the pump has a skimmer. How is the attendant going to be able tell?
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dm200
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by dm200 »

For reason(s) I do not understand fully, gas station pay at the pump was exempted until later with the requirement os using the chip on debit and credit cards.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by boglerdude »

Tug on the card reader

Never use debit

Set up instant text or email alerts for purchases made with your credit & debit cards
runner3081
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by runner3081 »

dm200 wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:43 pm For reason(s) I do not understand fully, gas station pay at the pump was exempted until later with the requirement os using the chip on debit and credit cards.
There are tons of gas stations that will need to replace their entire set of pumps, from what I have read. No retrofit is available.
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debit

Post by FraggleRock »

Don't understand the "do not use debit card" recommendation.
I never have more than $200 USD in my checking account.
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VictoriaF
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by VictoriaF »

mnaspbh wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:25 pm Skimmers are so sophisticated that it's getting very hard even for savvy users to spot them. Many are getting installed deep inside the card readers so there's little to no external sign--without disassembling the machine, you can't tell they're there. Needless to say, merchants won't appreciate consumers trying to disassemble their gas pumps, ATMs, and credit terminals...

Older-style skimmers can be spotted by inconsistencies in the housings of the credit card slot, by a tiny hole facing a keypad (used by a camera to steal PINs at ATMs), or by keypads, bevels, or housings that aren't molded directly into the machine. Tugging on the housing, keypad, etc, can sometimes reveal if it's a skimmer attachment; it may give (or come off!) whereas a non-skimmer should be completely solid.

For a whole lot of information about skimmers, including pictures that show just how good they've gotten, see the Krebs on Security article series on skimmers.
I second the recommendation to read Brian Krebs: And not only about gas pump skimmers but also about other types of fraud. Brian has some fantastic pictures of ATM machine fraud which can be more damaging than a stolen credit card.

Victoria
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Re: debit

Post by runner3081 »

FraggleRock wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:44 pm Don't understand the "do not use debit card" recommendation.
I never have more than $200 USD in my checking account.
For the other 90% who keep a little buffer instead of micro-managing the account, using a debit card and having it fall victim to a skimmer or likewise will drain the account and cause overdraft fees, etc.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by downshiftme »

A few months ago, I noticed the convenience store chain where I buy my gasoline installed tamper-proof seals on their pumps...the type that break if the pump is opened up.
My local gas station has similar tamper evident tape covering the door seals that open the inner workings on the credit card terminals. I noticed that the tape had been cut, so that it was no longer protecting the door from opening up the innards of the machine. When I called it to the attention of the attendant he claimed it had been like that for over a week and I was the only person who complained. Then he tried to tell me it was okay to use the machine anyway because new tamper evident tape was on backorder and would be installed soon.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by azurekep »

investor997 wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:37 pm I got a call from a detective at my hometown police department one day saying my card may have been compromised at a local gas station. He told me there were skimmers installed inside the machine and were in no way visible from the exterior.
How did the detective get your phone number?

I'm just curious about the path of communications. I would have thought you'd get a call from the credit card company.
anil686
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by anil686 »

renue74 wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:06 pm I just had this discussion a few days ago with a friend. He said that skimmers were rampant in our town according to his police detective brother-in-law.

One thing he suggested was to use the Exxon SpeedPass app. You download it, add your credit card and then scan a QR code when you buy gas at Exxon. (There's an Exxon at the end of our neighborhood that I frequently use.)

I'm going to try that.
I use this frequently with Apple Pay off the app. I find it faster than using a card and the traditional way of pay at the pump. Literally less than 10 seconds in most cases to pump gas and the receipt is emailed to you as well. I wish more stations had this type of system...
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by walkabout »

Another recommendation for Exxon's Speedpass app.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by VictoriaF »

azurekep wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:26 pm
investor997 wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:37 pm I got a call from a detective at my hometown police department one day saying my card may have been compromised at a local gas station. He told me there were skimmers installed inside the machine and were in no way visible from the exterior.
How did the detective get your phone number?

I'm just curious about the path of communications. I would have thought you'd get a call from the credit card company.

Good catch. The "detective" could be a social engineer.

Victoria
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investor997
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by investor997 »

azurekep wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:26 pm
investor997 wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:37 pm I got a call from a detective at my hometown police department one day saying my card may have been compromised at a local gas station. He told me there were skimmers installed inside the machine and were in no way visible from the exterior.
How did the detective get your phone number?

I'm just curious about the path of communications. I would have thought you'd get a call from the credit card company.
Not sure to be honest. Not a stretch to imagine police can coordinate with credit card company fraud departments. It wasn't social engineering. The detective left me a voicemail, and his callback # was legitimately with the local police department.
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Re: debit

Post by flamesabers »

FraggleRock wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:44 pm Don't understand the "do not use debit card" recommendation.
I never have more than $200 USD in my checking account.
Do you use your debit card to pay your bills and other routine expenses? If so, you must be transferring money fairly frequently to your checking account to pay for everything.
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Re: debit

Post by sreynard »

FraggleRock wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:44 pm Don't understand the "do not use debit card" recommendation.
I never have more than $200 USD in my checking account.
Same here. Also my credit union explicitly states they will immediately refund all fraudulent withdraws. Though I can't recall ever using a debit card at a gas station. Usually buy at Costco with the Costco credit card.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by midareff »

dm200 wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:34 pm I have never been a "victim", but I read a lot about use of card skimmers at gasoline pumps. A local station (but not one I use) has recently been identified as being hit.

Any knowledge or experience in finding one on gas pumps?

Yes, once. I use a PenFed 5% cash back gas card but only at gas stations so the pattern algorithm kicked it right out.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by lthenderson »

I found a skimmer a couple months ago while traveling. I tugged on the credit card plastic slot and off popped the skimmer. It had some sort of adhesive holding it over the regular plastic molded piece. I gave it to the attendant inside who called the cops but I doubt anything would ever come from it unless there is security footage. Out where I live in rural America, I don't worry about it so much though I still tug on the credit card plastic piece out of habit.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by DetroitRick »

Skimmers are so common in my area, and they are getting so much harder to detect, this is one reason I started using Android Pay where offered. No security solution can be viewed in a vacuum, but I find this much safer here and now. Particularly with minimally-attended card machines (like gas stations). Plus, my experience with Android Pay so far has been quicker and more convenient than using cards anyway. The only downside is the adoption rate by merchants, but it's improving.
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by invst65 »

Got hit with several thousand dollars worth of gas charges on my American Express card a couple of years ago. The only hint I got that it was happening was when I got declined for a legitimate purchase and called to find out why. So we had to to go through about a hundred transactions at gas stations in the area that were just under $100 - by pennies. How that didn't trigger a fraud alert sooner than it did is beyond me but the only loss for me was my time on the phone straightening it all out.
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Re: debit

Post by FraggleRock »

flamesabers wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:32 amfrequently to your checking account to pay for everything.
I visit my credit union website almost every day.
I sit in front of my iMac for 5+ hours per day.
So, no extra effort.
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Re: debit

Post by runner3081 »

FraggleRock wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:45 pm
flamesabers wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:32 amfrequently to your checking account to pay for everything.
I visit my credit union website almost every day.
I sit in front of my iMac for 5+ hours per day.
So, no extra effort.
Sounds like a waste of time to me, but personal finance is just that - do what works for you.
boglerdude
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by boglerdude »

Capital One lets you lock/unlock your debit card via website or app. Hopefully this becomes an option at all banks.
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StevieG72
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by StevieG72 »

Owner of a convenience store with gas here.....

You can not see the skimmer, it is inside the pumps. In many cases, the keys to access the pumps are the same for every station with identical equipment.

I check pumps at my station frequently, and have found a skimmer.

Best practices to avoid being skimmed....

Look for security tags

Dont use the pumps on either end of the gasoline island. ( these are typically less visable to store staff )

Get gas at clean well maintained stations, they are more likely to be on top of preventing fraud via skimmers.

I second the no debit card. I do not have a debit or ATM card & there is not one associated with my checking account. ( no paper checks either)
Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others.
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flamesabers
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by flamesabers »

boglerdude wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:01 pm Capital One lets you lock/unlock your debit card via website or app. Hopefully this becomes an option at all banks.
USAA offers this option as well.
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SmileyFace
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Re: debit

Post by SmileyFace »

sreynard wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:38 am
FraggleRock wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:44 pm Don't understand the "do not use debit card" recommendation.
I never have more than $200 USD in my checking account.
Same here. Also my credit union explicitly states they will immediately refund all fraudulent withdraws. Though I can't recall ever using a debit card at a gas station. Usually buy at Costco with the Costco credit card.
So do you folks use a separate checking account for your bills versus the one for your debit? With thousands in-and-out in a month - I can't imagine trying to keep this low of a balance. (Thus I never use debit - always a credit-card).
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by fareastwarriors »

I look and shake the card reader but not saw anything out of norm. My cards have not been skimmed yet either.
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serbeer
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by serbeer »

Gas pumps do not use chip function of CCs yet, at least in my area. Most of the stores now do.

I think if chip transaction is used, skimmer would be useless since you need chip to be present to run the card. Not 100% sure though, perhaps one can get enough info to make the card usable at non-chip locations.
casualflower
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by casualflower »

If your debit card number is skimmed and you report fraudulent activity within two months of receiving your statement, you have $0 liability.
TropikThunder
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Re: Experience finding gas pump card skimmer?

Post by TropikThunder »

metrunt wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:50 pm If your debit card number is skimmed and you report fraudulent activity within two months of receiving your statement, you have $0 liability.
But the bank doesn't have to return the money right away. And it's 60 days from statement being sent, not from when you receive it (small detail).
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