Credit card bonus award rules

[dual]

For those of us who play the credit card bonus game, the issuers are implementing new rules limiting us. I thought I would start a thread on the rules and their updates so we can avoid the time to apply and possible dreaded 'hard pulls' on our credit report without getting a card. If you still got a bonus despite the rule please post any possible special circumstances, for example, the Chase apply in branch for Private Clients exception.

I would like to keep this thread about the rules and not new offers that are covered on other threads e.g.
viewtopic.php?t=192008


Here are some of the rules:
chase 5/24 No more than 5 new credit cards in last rolling 24 months:
https://thepointsguy.com/2016/07/unfort ... -524-rule/

AMEX
Per: https://thepointsguy.com/2017/03/q-and- ... -platinum/
Amex sign-up bonuses are once per product per lifetime. However, the different co-branded versions of the card are treated as separate products. So, you can still get the sign-up bonus for example on these versions of Amex Platinum, such as the Mercedes-Benz Platinum card.

WellsFargo:
From the application on my WellsFargo account: If you opened a Wells Fargo credit card account during the last 16 months from the date of this application you will not be eligible for the introductory APR(s) or bonus rewards offers, even if that account is closed and has a zero balance.

Citibank:
Bonus ThankYou® Points are not available if you have had a ThankYou Preferred, ThankYou Premier or Citi Prestige card opened or closed in the past 24 months. The closed part is worth noting. In some cases it may make sense to leave a card open and apply for another one of different type instead of closing it.
Also, what about converting card e.g. from one with annual fee to one without. If you have converted but your account number has not changed, you will still qualify for the bonus.
https://thepointsguy.com/2017/07/produc ... onth-rule/

See also the reddit post linked by Alexa9 in the next post on this thread.
edited 8/19/17

[Alexa9]

Anti churning rules on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comme ... ing_rules/

[JBTX]

Thanks for the info. In my case I'll only open one or two cards for rewards in a year.

I looked at the link. Wouldn't the amount churning they are talking about really ding your credit?

[Markr867]

Thanks for the info. In my case I'll only open one or two cards for rewards in a year.

I looked at the link. Wouldn't the amount churning they are talking about really ding your credit?

You would think so, but it actually doesn't. I have 13 cards, almost all of which were opened in the last two years, and my credit has gone up about 10 points (it is currently right under 800). When you open a lot of cards all at once, your score drops temporarily due to the hard pulls. But the increased credit available to you helps offset that drop. And then, assuming you keep the cards open, your average age of accounts will start to increase and drive UP your score.

[JBTX]

Thanks for the info. In my case I'll only open one or two cards for rewards in a year.

I looked at the link. Wouldn't the amount churning they are talking about really ding your credit?

You would think so, but it actually doesn't. I have 13 cards, almost all of which were opened in the last two years, and my credit has gone up about 10 points (it is currently right under 800). When you open a lot of cards all at once, your score drops temporarily due to the hard pulls. But the increased credit available to you helps offset that drop. And then, assuming you keep the cards open, your average age of accounts will start to increase and drive UP your score.

I googled my question above and found pretty much the same answer. While I will likely never be a churner I may more frequently pursue cards with $500 plus rewards. I wouldn't keep them open if they have annual fee.

[rocket354]

Thanks for the info. In my case I'll only open one or two cards for rewards in a year.

I looked at the link. Wouldn't the amount churning they are talking about really ding your credit?

You would think so, but it actually doesn't. I have 13 cards, almost all of which were opened in the last two years, and my credit has gone up about 10 points (it is currently right under 800). When you open a lot of cards all at once, your score drops temporarily due to the hard pulls. But the increased credit available to you helps offset that drop. And then, assuming you keep the cards open, your average age of accounts will start to increase and drive UP your score.

I will point out my situation from another thread here.

Basically, I found everything you just said true, but have run into a recent issue that coincides with my latest CC account opening.

To address other concerns, I've found that opening too many accounts in too short of a time will get even the big banks to start denying you. I've been denied recently (before the credit score drop) by BoA, Capital One, Chase (of course) and even smaller credit unions, all of them citing that I've opened too many recent accounts. I've probably averaged about one new CC a month for the last two years.

I also had an issue with US Bank where I opened one of their credit cards for the bonus ($100 after $500 spend), hit the spend limit, then had them refuse to pay out the bonus. I had put exactly $500 on the card in one purchase so I think that probably alerted them to my intentions.

But to the previous point, my conclusion is the bonus whoring on credit cards is definitely worth it, and can be done in a relatively high volume, but there probably is a point of "too much." We'll see how long I have to wait before my credit recovers.

[giesen5]

Chase just changed the rules on the Sapphire family of cards:

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/official ... imitation/

[sco]

Thanks for the info. In my case I'll only open one or two cards for rewards in a year.

I looked at the link. Wouldn't the amount churning they are talking about really ding your credit?

You would think so, but it actually doesn't. I have 13 cards, almost all of which were opened in the last two years, and my credit has gone up about 10 points (it is currently right under 800). When you open a lot of cards all at once, your score drops temporarily due to the hard pulls. But the increased credit available to you helps offset that drop. And then, assuming you keep the cards open, your average age of accounts will start to increase and drive UP your score.

I will point out my situation from another thread here.

Basically, I found everything you just said true, but have run into a recent issue that coincides with my latest CC account opening.

To address other concerns, I've found that opening too many accounts in too short of a time will get even the big banks to start denying you. I've been denied recently (before the credit score drop) by BoA, Capital One, Chase (of course) and even smaller credit unions, all of them citing that I've opened too many recent accounts. I've probably averaged about one new CC a month for the last two years.

I also had an issue with US Bank where I opened one of their credit cards for the bonus ($100 after $500 spend), hit the spend limit, then had them refuse to pay out the bonus. I had put exactly $500 on the card in one purchase so I think that probably alerted them to my intentions.

But to the previous point, my conclusion is the bonus whoring on credit cards is definitely worth it, and can be done in a relatively high volume, but there probably is a point of "too much." We'll see how long I have to wait before my credit recovers.

Just apply for them all on the same day, why spread it over several days/weeks/months?

[flamesabers]

To address other concerns, I've found that opening too many accounts in too short of a time will get even the big banks to start denying you. I've been denied recently (before the credit score drop) by BoA, Capital One, Chase (of course) and even smaller credit unions, all of them citing that I've opened too many recent accounts. I've probably averaged about one new CC a month for the last two years.

This is one reason why I don't churn credit cards. Getting all those bonuses sounds nice, but I don't think it's worth the risk of getting blacklisted by the banks. From the banks' perspective, probably the only reasons why customers would be opening a new credit card every month would be to collect all the bonuses or they're maxing out all of their credit cards. Neither of which are the type of customer banks would be eager to lend credit to.

I opened three cards this year, but they are all rewards cards I use on a regular basis. Next month I'll probably open a cashback card for the bonus and then call it quits for the rest of the year. For next year I might open two cashback cards for the bonus and then repeat for the following year.

[rocket354]

Just apply for them all on the same day, why spread it over several days/weeks/months?

I did that once. I applied for four cards in one day. Card one: approved, $15k limit, 13% apr. Card two: approved, $10k limit, 18% apr. Card three: approved, $5k limit, 24% APR. Card four: Denied. It seems whether it's all in one day or spaced out, the companies know what's going on.

Also, when someone is new(er) to the game, there can be a lot of cards out there. A vet will have fewer opportunities that they haven't already taken advantage of, as well as may have to space cards out more since there's already a bunch of recent new accounts potentially affecting their ability to get approved.

[flamesabers]

Just apply for them all on the same day, why spread it over several days/weeks/months?

I did that once. I applied for four cards in one day. Card one: approved, $15k limit, 13% apr. Card two: approved, $10k limit, 18% apr. Card three: approved, $5k limit, 24% APR. Card four: Denied. It seems whether it's all in one day or spaced out, the companies know what's going on.

Also, when someone is new(er) to the game, there can be a lot of cards out there. A vet will have fewer opportunities that they haven't already taken advantage of, as well as may have to space cards out more since there's already a bunch of recent new accounts potentially affecting their ability to get approved.

I think another potential issue with trying to apply for multiple cards in one day (or very close to that) is meeting the minimum spending requirement to get the bonus for each card. Unless the cards have low spending requirements or you're a big spender, I think it makes much more sense to spread out the spending requirements so you don't have to do any extra purchases to get the bonus.

[DrGoogle2017]

I never played the Credit card game when I was working. Too much trouble to keep track of cards. But closer to my retirement date, I had a lot of free time and decide to churn as a fun game to play. Beside, I've already applied to all the credit lines and mortgages, I don't have to worry. My credit score did go up to 840, I think that's the highest. Same with my husband. I don't worry about being blacklist. I've already has PenFed as a back up.

[sco]

Just apply for them all on the same day, why spread it over several days/weeks/months?

I did that once. I applied for four cards in one day. Card one: approved, $15k limit, 13% apr. Card two: approved, $10k limit, 18% apr. Card three: approved, $5k limit, 24% APR. Card four: Denied. It seems whether it's all in one day or spaced out, the companies know what's going on.

Also, when someone is new(er) to the game, there can be a lot of cards out there. A vet will have fewer opportunities that they haven't already taken advantage of, as well as may have to space cards out more since there's already a bunch of recent new accounts potentially affecting their ability to get approved.

I think another potential issue with trying to apply for multiple cards in one day (or very close to that) is meeting the minimum spending requirement to get the bonus for each card. Unless the cards have low spending requirements or you're a big spender, I think it makes much more sense to spread out the spending requirements so you don't have to do any extra purchases to get the bonus.

It minimizes the credit hit, as they will lump all Citibank queries together as 1 query on your credit report.

But yes, you need to make sure you can hit the spend requirements.