Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
We were in a very similar predicament 8 years ago and made the decision to cut back our hours and income. I went from working 60-70 stressful hours a week to 40 much less stressful hours. I took roughly a 50% pay cut to do so.
I can't say I have no regrets. We save at a high rate but live in a smaller house and have to budget more carefully than we did before. That said, we look at the time we spend with our kids as an investment. Just as with any financial investment, there's no guarantee of success, but we feel it gives us a better chance of having well-adjusted kids with whom we'll have strong relationships down the road. I have also noticed that many kids of two very busy parents seem to have behavioral issues -- problems focusing, hyperactivity, impulse control, rudeness, being excessively materialistic even at a young age, etc. That is purely anecdotal however.
Ultimately you have to decide what's right for you, but I would definitely encourage you to think of both time and money as investments that need to be balanced.
I can't say I have no regrets. We save at a high rate but live in a smaller house and have to budget more carefully than we did before. That said, we look at the time we spend with our kids as an investment. Just as with any financial investment, there's no guarantee of success, but we feel it gives us a better chance of having well-adjusted kids with whom we'll have strong relationships down the road. I have also noticed that many kids of two very busy parents seem to have behavioral issues -- problems focusing, hyperactivity, impulse control, rudeness, being excessively materialistic even at a young age, etc. That is purely anecdotal however.
Ultimately you have to decide what's right for you, but I would definitely encourage you to think of both time and money as investments that need to be balanced.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
No it is NOT worth it to work that much. My wife is a SAHM until my littlest one goes to school full time (another 3 years). I work at most 40 hours per week and my career has suffered because of it. But I would NEVER give that up - the time I spend with my kids is much more valuable than the $/hr I earn at work. I'll have plenty of time to work 60 hrs/week when my kids are teenagers and hate me. But not now when they all come running to the door yelling "daddy!!!!" when I get home.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
It's TOTALLY worth it. I've focused on my career, and foregone family, kids, marriage, girlfriend, dating, friendships, and even acquaintances. I work, from the moment I wake up and check my email from bed, to the moment I get back in bed and take one final look at email before going to sleep. I work...and that is all. No regrets!
When I'm old - really old - I expect to look back on fond memories of meetings, frantic second by second email and text conversations, contracts, navigating pettiness, and other knowledge worker adventures!
Remember that time I reviewed that agreement, while half-listening to an unrelated meeting, and texting about a third project? Yeah, good times, good times indeed.
When I'm old - really old - I expect to look back on fond memories of meetings, frantic second by second email and text conversations, contracts, navigating pettiness, and other knowledge worker adventures!
Remember that time I reviewed that agreement, while half-listening to an unrelated meeting, and texting about a third project? Yeah, good times, good times indeed.
We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails • It's later than you think • Ack! Thbbft!
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
It sounds like you've found the formula for eternal happiness. Most enlightened. I salute you, sir!billthecat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:53 am It's TOTALLY worth it. I've focused on my career, and foregone family, kids, marriage, girlfriend, dating, friendships, and even acquaintances. I work, from the moment I wake up and check my email from bed, to the moment I get back in bed and take one final look at email before going to sleep. I work...and that is all. No regrets!
When I'm old - really old - I expect to look back on fond memories of meetings, frantic second by second email and text conversations, contracts, navigating pettiness, and other knowledge worker adventures!
Remember that time I reviewed that agreement, while half-listening to an unrelated meeting, and texting about a third project? Yeah, good times, good times indeed.
"Often the remedy causes the disease. It is by no means the least of life's rules: to let things alone." |
Baltasar Gracián, S.J., The Art of Worldly Wisdom, Maxim 121
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
The OP isn't asking for my opinion since I haven't been there and done that. So I wont comment on whether it is worth it financially in the long run.
My wife and I are in a similar situation to the OP however we are further along in the journey (older kids). I will say that you should keep in mind that, in a couple of years, your kids will likely be coming back with the various flus/colds from interacting with all those other kids at daycare/school.. getting conjunctivitis or fever and unable to go to school.. or school holidays... needing to be shuttled to various summer camps or after school activities.. going for the various checkups... having those 'lunch with dad' and 'family pumpkin patch picnics'. I was once late for one of my daughters performances by 10 minutes because a meeting ran long and I got there to see her crying, I've seen other kids crying/glum looking at various 'family potlucks' held at school when their parents couldn't make it. Those school gatherings actually bug me because they kind of put you on the spot. You either go, or you disappoint your kid. lol
In our case the family stress level went way up. My wife was picking up the majority of the stress since my work at the time often entailed travel as well. Life was just a rush rush rush, everything had to be planned and everything needed to be fast. If the kid came home with conjunctivitis one day, we'd be like 'oh crap'. Gotta get in touch with the sitter, hope she is available. and so on. There was no time to just BE. Our solution to the problem was essentially me quitting my job and taking up work from home. I know this is not an option to most, and we are kind of lucky in that aspect. It isn't as high status, and it may have an impact on my future career, but we shall see. For now, our stress levels went way down having one parent at home able to watch the kids if they need to come home form school, or if there is some event that needs attending. It allows us to spend a lot more time with our kids.
We do have friends that have chosen to solve the problem differently. They have a full time nanny with a car who shuttles the kids around, watches them if they are unable to go to school, or if school is closed that day, and so on. It seems to be working fine for them.
For my part, having kids and then paying someone to look after them would be like buying a Ferrari and then paying a driver to drive it around for me. For me it would kind of be missing the point. Other people have different perspectives, and I respect that, and make no claim to have figured out the 'one true way'. It is your life, your family, your kids and your goals. No two are like. Good luck!
My wife and I are in a similar situation to the OP however we are further along in the journey (older kids). I will say that you should keep in mind that, in a couple of years, your kids will likely be coming back with the various flus/colds from interacting with all those other kids at daycare/school.. getting conjunctivitis or fever and unable to go to school.. or school holidays... needing to be shuttled to various summer camps or after school activities.. going for the various checkups... having those 'lunch with dad' and 'family pumpkin patch picnics'. I was once late for one of my daughters performances by 10 minutes because a meeting ran long and I got there to see her crying, I've seen other kids crying/glum looking at various 'family potlucks' held at school when their parents couldn't make it. Those school gatherings actually bug me because they kind of put you on the spot. You either go, or you disappoint your kid. lol
In our case the family stress level went way up. My wife was picking up the majority of the stress since my work at the time often entailed travel as well. Life was just a rush rush rush, everything had to be planned and everything needed to be fast. If the kid came home with conjunctivitis one day, we'd be like 'oh crap'. Gotta get in touch with the sitter, hope she is available. and so on. There was no time to just BE. Our solution to the problem was essentially me quitting my job and taking up work from home. I know this is not an option to most, and we are kind of lucky in that aspect. It isn't as high status, and it may have an impact on my future career, but we shall see. For now, our stress levels went way down having one parent at home able to watch the kids if they need to come home form school, or if there is some event that needs attending. It allows us to spend a lot more time with our kids.
We do have friends that have chosen to solve the problem differently. They have a full time nanny with a car who shuttles the kids around, watches them if they are unable to go to school, or if school is closed that day, and so on. It seems to be working fine for them.
For my part, having kids and then paying someone to look after them would be like buying a Ferrari and then paying a driver to drive it around for me. For me it would kind of be missing the point. Other people have different perspectives, and I respect that, and make no claim to have figured out the 'one true way'. It is your life, your family, your kids and your goals. No two are like. Good luck!
Last edited by bligh on Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
All you missed was the sarcastic emoticons.billthecat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:53 am It's TOTALLY worth it. I've focused on my career, and foregone family, kids, marriage, girlfriend, dating, friendships, and even acquaintances. I work, from the moment I wake up and check my email from bed, to the moment I get back in bed and take one final look at email before going to sleep. I work...and that is all. No regrets!
When I'm old - really old - I expect to look back on fond memories of meetings, frantic second by second email and text conversations, contracts, navigating pettiness, and other knowledge worker adventures!
Remember that time I reviewed that agreement, while half-listening to an unrelated meeting, and texting about a third project? Yeah, good times, good times indeed.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
I can handle unvarnished opinions and I do not need bumper guards on the bowling lanes. Part of me wishes I had written my post as the "husband" and somehow I imagine that less posters would have told me to become a stay at home husband but I am not looking to get into a larger discussion on implicit bias.
My normal schedule either has me with my kids in the morning for 2 hours or at night for bedtime from 6-8 pm and then I work afterwards. I do not normally work weekends (if I can avoid it) and if I do work weekends, I normally work during nap time.
I really enjoy my job. I do think at times I wish there was less of it. I also see staying in my job as providing opportunities for my children that I did not have as a child of a middle class family. I think it is important as a parent to be a happy parent. I appreciated the posters who pointed out that there are certain stay at home parents who find dissatisfaction in staying home and not having a career. I do not think you have to be a stay at home parent to be a great parent.
I really appreciate all of the posters who took the time to share their personal experiences with making this type of decision.
My normal schedule either has me with my kids in the morning for 2 hours or at night for bedtime from 6-8 pm and then I work afterwards. I do not normally work weekends (if I can avoid it) and if I do work weekends, I normally work during nap time.
I really enjoy my job. I do think at times I wish there was less of it. I also see staying in my job as providing opportunities for my children that I did not have as a child of a middle class family. I think it is important as a parent to be a happy parent. I appreciated the posters who pointed out that there are certain stay at home parents who find dissatisfaction in staying home and not having a career. I do not think you have to be a stay at home parent to be a great parent.
I really appreciate all of the posters who took the time to share their personal experiences with making this type of decision.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
I haven't read any 'implicit targeting of working mothers' here, you implied it yourself.Arthur Digby Sellers wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:03 amNo amount of money is worth letting others raise your children
Please tone it down with the moralizing against working parents (which is implicitly targeted against working mothers).
Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
I think Bligh has a good point above. When kids get older into school age you will get pulled into things. Kids get sick. Kid has activity at school that you feel you need to attend. Shuttling kids to and from activities. You either have to have jobs that accommodate that or have someone else you can trust (and pay ) to help. Some of things you will want to be there. Or god forbid your kid acts up and requires a parent teacher conference. Not all kids grow up to be angels. We have 2 special needs kids. It would be very difficult for us to both work 50+ hour full time jobs. That's why I'm doing part time contract. My wife is more enthusiastic about work than me. She enjoys her job at a small company. I view work as a means to an end. I'd rather work than not but i dont derive self actualization from it.vk8216 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:16 am I can handle unvarnished opinions and I do not need bumper guards on the bowling lanes. Part of me wishes I had written my post as the "husband" and somehow I imagine that less posters would have told me to become a stay at home husband but I am not looking to get into a larger discussion on implicit bias.
My normal schedule either has me with my kids in the morning for 2 hours or at night for bedtime from 6-8 pm and then I work afterwards. I do not normally work weekends (if I can avoid it) and if I do work weekends, I normally work during nap time.
I really enjoy my job. I do think at times I wish there was less of it. I also see staying in my job as providing opportunities for my children that I did not have as a child of a middle class family. I think it is important as a parent to be a happy parent. I appreciated the posters who pointed out that there are certain stay at home parents who find dissatisfaction in staying home and not having a career. I do not think you have to be a stay at home parent to be a great parent.
I really appreciate all of the posters who took the time to share their personal experiences with making this type of decision.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
I'm in my early 40s with three children between 5 and 11. I don't work as much as I could. I don't make as much money as I could if I worked more. And I do this deliberately to be more available for my kids. This will extend my working years and I'm 100% ok with that.
I figure it's better to spend time with my kids now and work a few years longer when I'm in my late 50s early 60s.
I figure it's better to spend time with my kids now and work a few years longer when I'm in my late 50s early 60s.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
The very first response to the OP asked whether the household could run on just "the husband's" income, and went on to say that there "should be nothing more important to the two of you than family." Shortly thereafter someone pointed out that "no amount of money is worth letting others raise your children." The OP was told that it is hard to see how she gets to spend much time with either her spouse or her children. She was asked whether on her deathbed she would regret making more money (i.e., working) or spending time with her children.F150HD wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:17 amI haven't read any 'implicit targeting of working mothers' here, you implied it yourself.Arthur Digby Sellers wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:03 amNo amount of money is worth letting others raise your children
Please tone it down with the moralizing against working parents (which is implicitly targeted against working mothers).
Now you've read it. All of that was before I ever posted in the thread.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
It's worth the pay-cut to get your life back. At least it was for me.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
To my knowledge, I do not have any children.vk8216 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:09 amI would like to ask everyone on this board who has been there, done that (or is currently doing it)...was it worth it to you to work hard in your thirties (and beyond) with young children so that you would have long term financial security? I know there are many successful people on this board so I am interested to hear your perspectives.
That said, among the people I know who do have children and who work very long hours, I find that their children are, ahem, a bit messed-up and the parents seem to equate "buying stuff" for the kids with "being there" for the kids.
But they aren't the same, and the kids know it and I suspect that the parents know it too.
More to your immediate question, however, you aren't trading hard work today for long-term financial security tomorrow.
Instead, you are trading hard work today for unhappiness today, with the hope that you, and your children, will be happy and secure tomorrow.
To which I ask, how is that working out for you?
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Sounds to me like OP asked the people on this forum for their opinion and it looks to me like she got it. The honest answer doesn't have to be the one you like. This isn't some 'mom's should stay at home with the kids' thread either.. I saw plenty of Mr Moms mentioned on this thread, and I am one of them. The bottom line is kids will need adult supervision when not at school.. and they are often not at school.. it is either the mom, the dad , a grandparent or two, or a nanny. Pick one based on your priorities and life situations and move on.Arthur Digby Sellers wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:37 amThe very first response to the OP asked whether the household could run on just "the husband's" income, and went on to say that there "should be nothing more important to the two of you than family." Shortly thereafter someone pointed out that "no amount of money is worth letting others raise your children." The OP was told that it is hard to see how she gets to spend much time with either her spouse or her children. She was asked whether on her deathbed she would regret making more money (i.e., working) or spending time with her children.F150HD wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:17 amI haven't read any 'implicit targeting of working mothers' here, you implied it yourself.Arthur Digby Sellers wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:03 amNo amount of money is worth letting others raise your children
Please tone it down with the moralizing against working parents (which is implicitly targeted against working mothers).
Now you've read it. All of that was before I ever posted in the thread.
Last edited by bligh on Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
That could clearly be the case at lower incomes where finances cause a major pressure that parents/kids interests align. That's a lot harder argument to make at much higher income as well as working 60-70 hrs/week. If you'd take a 50-80% paycut for going down from 60-70 hours to 40-50 then clearly you are very well compensated. The kids don't need designer clothes or Tesla's when they turn 16. I think the original post was a fair assumption for the OP to at least consider.JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:37 amPeople assume they are competing interests. What is best for the parents may be best for the kids. Just because they spend more time doesn't mean it will be quality time. And people just seem to shrug off the financial pressures coming from a lower income. They are real and can cause conflict. If one persons subjegates themselves to a role they don't like, chances are the family will suffer. In some cases that leads to divorce which is the worst case scenario. Finances are typically the number one cause of divorce.knpstr wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:24 amTo me, I think the two views being expressed are: what is best for the kids versus preferred by the parents.JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:52 amI really dislike this post. Not everybody is the same. What works for you may be best for others.DomDangelina wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:08 am OP: when words and actions conflict, I look to actions for the truth. You say that nothing is more important to you than family, yet both you and your husband work 60-70 hours per week. You then attempt to justify this by saying it's for a financially secure future. Yet the sacrifice of the present for the future often destroys the future one wished to build. This is especially true with families, as family time in the present can never be made up in the future. Once gone, it's gone.
Thus I'd advise jettisoning all self-deception and admitting that a happy family is actually not the most important thing to you. Your actions show that the status that comes with money is more important to you, along with the prestige of position (I'd bet that you're both lawyers; I was one of them. I know your type quite well.). It's time to get real; really real.
My wife works ~50-55 hrs/week year round and peaks at 65-70 at times for a few weeks and the peak times can be brutal on our relationship when I don't see her much. I can't imagine two parents doing that year round and having significant time for family/kids unless they both are only sleeping 4-5 hours/day and a significant amount of working time is late at night. My wife and I are still considering whether we want kids and one of the considerations is the enjoyment from work, extra money for fancy vacations/luxury cars. It's not bad to want those things and also make a priority. But you need to see how that balances with being with your kids and if the OP is concerned enough to post on the message board about this then they are probably feeling that the pendulum has swung too far and 1 or both of the parents should try moving back to a 50 hr/week job.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
We don't have very much financial information to give you any solid financial advice. So I actually am a bit confused here on what you're asking. One thing I can say is that you cannot have it all. No one can. For example, perhaps you can juggle working 70 hours and spend time with your family. But you end up sacrificing your health as we all need some "me" time. But you already knew about the "can't have it all" so I am still unsure of what it is that you're asking.vk8216 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:09 am My husband and I work very demanding jobs (at least 60-70 hours a week) and we have 2 beautiful children, a baby and a toddler. We are well-compensated for our demanding jobs. Our family is very important to us but our careers are also important to us. We are in our mid-thirties so we think of this time as an opportunity to really save money and working hard now will have a significant long term impact on our lives with the beauty of compounding interest. We struggle with the fact that we are not seeing our kids more (every minute we are not working, we spend with the kids for the most part). I have never worked a 9-5 pm job so I am not sure how much more I would see my children if I switched to that type of work and if it would be worth a 50%-80% pay cut.
I would like to ask everyone on this board who has been there, done that (or is currently doing it)...was it worth it to you to work hard in your thirties (and beyond) with young children so that you would have long term financial security? I know there are many successful people on this board so I am interested to hear your perspectives.
Thank you in advance.
Maybe watching other parents slow down on their work to spend more on family time is making you feel guilty? So you would like for us to assure you that your choices are not wrong? Well, if so then we cannot do that. Why? Because that is something that comes from within you. Don't seek validation from anyone but yourself. It's your life and you are the lead star in it. Live it by your rules.
BTW ... 60-70 hours/week isn't really all that demanding. That starts at around 85+
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Seems like you answered your own question:
"Nothing is more important to us than family"
If that is true, seems to me that you would want to be with them more than the money is worth. Trust me when I tell you, you will never get that amazing time back again. There will always be a job there for you when one who stayed home is ready to go back to work. Trust that voice that is making you ask the question.
"Nothing is more important to us than family"
If that is true, seems to me that you would want to be with them more than the money is worth. Trust me when I tell you, you will never get that amazing time back again. There will always be a job there for you when one who stayed home is ready to go back to work. Trust that voice that is making you ask the question.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
If you have a good reasonably priced daycare it is worth it for both parents to work. That's what weekends and vacations are for. Just have to realize that someone else is raising your kids so you should get to know them.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Get to know the people who are raising your kids???
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
You had a no from me at 60-70 hours of work per week, even before I read about having a family. My opinion is that the return on investment (of your time) is never worth it if you work for someone else for a salary. I do understand working 60-70 hours to grow a business that you own. I understand working those hours when you are paid hourly because more time directly translates to more (monetary) reward. But, I would never work that hard in a corporate, salaried job so that the CEO gets a better bonus. You need to be realistic about what working that hard will really get you from your employer. Whether I work 40 hours per week or 70 hours per week, I get paid the same thing. Whether I work 40 hours per week or 70 hours per week, I'll never be the CEO. Whether I work 40 hours per week or 70 hours per week, I'll retire between 55 and 60. Why would I work more than 40 hours per week? If I work 70 hours per week instead of 40 hours per week, I'll have more stress, less time with my family, no time to regularly exercise, no time to relax, etc. I really see no benefit to working beyond 40 hours per week (and would work 0 hours per week if it were financially feasible).
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Oh I absolutely agree with you about financial strain on relationships. I was making the suggestion using the assumption that finances would not be an issue. That the family would be financially comfortable under 1 income. Hope that clears things up, as far as where I was coming from. I think that was the position of the first person in this discussion as well. Presumably working the 60-70 hour "well compensated" job each has they are making 6-figures each, meaning finances aren't really an issue in this case. It is just the preference of career identification versus family life.JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:37 am People assume they are competing interests. What is best for the parents may be best for the kids. Just because they spend more time doesn't mean it will be quality time. And people just seem to shrug off the financial pressures coming from a lower income. They are real and can cause conflict. If one persons subjegates themselves to a role they don't like, chances are the family will suffer. In some cases that leads to divorce which is the worst case scenario. Finances are typically the number one cause of divorce.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
In your situation, I think it would make sense to have one person stay home. I think 2 people can work as long as the hours are closer to 40 hours per week. If you're both doing 60-70, then I don't know how you'd manage the house and spend time with the kids.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
The majority of our friends and peer group already have kids (early 30s). We live in a major city. I know of only 1 couple out of 10+ with kids that has a stay at home spouse. That couple had family money to utilize. It's primarily financially driven. For most, it's rare to even have the choice.
I am early 30s and my wife and I are now expecting. Current plan is for my wife to stay home until the last of our 2 planned children enter school full-time. She has always expressed the desire to do this, from day 1. I was hesitant, I just assumed she would work straight through because that's just the reality I've always seen around me. We had to delay kids for a while in order to do this (we've been a couple for 10+ years, married for almost 5). We are frequently asked "how can you guys afford to do that?" I tell them "things will be tight, but I think we can make it work."
It sounds like the OP is in good shape. They have a lot of options. They can make the trade off of higher income for more time to spend with family. The ramifications from doing that will mean they might have to decrease either their spending or their saving or both. If they're currently saving 50% of income then it's an easy choice for me, sacrifice the saving for now. You can grow your income over time. You can up the savings rate later, a temporary dip is not big deal. Maybe you retire rich instead of wealthy or you have to work 2-3 years longer. You'll be fine. If your making a ton right now and saving less than 15%, then you will need to decrease the spending. Most high income earners have levers to pull in order to do that without the sacrifice becoming burdensome. It's always good to have options, just have to think through the tough decisions.
I am early 30s and my wife and I are now expecting. Current plan is for my wife to stay home until the last of our 2 planned children enter school full-time. She has always expressed the desire to do this, from day 1. I was hesitant, I just assumed she would work straight through because that's just the reality I've always seen around me. We had to delay kids for a while in order to do this (we've been a couple for 10+ years, married for almost 5). We are frequently asked "how can you guys afford to do that?" I tell them "things will be tight, but I think we can make it work."
It sounds like the OP is in good shape. They have a lot of options. They can make the trade off of higher income for more time to spend with family. The ramifications from doing that will mean they might have to decrease either their spending or their saving or both. If they're currently saving 50% of income then it's an easy choice for me, sacrifice the saving for now. You can grow your income over time. You can up the savings rate later, a temporary dip is not big deal. Maybe you retire rich instead of wealthy or you have to work 2-3 years longer. You'll be fine. If your making a ton right now and saving less than 15%, then you will need to decrease the spending. Most high income earners have levers to pull in order to do that without the sacrifice becoming burdensome. It's always good to have options, just have to think through the tough decisions.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Good point - I hadn't thought about languages and musical instruments. Fortunately my wife is fluent in other languages but neither of us is musical in any way, so we might have to get that influence from elsewhere.Arthur Digby Sellers wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:29 amExamples of topics that have been taught that are outside of my knowledge base include sign language, Chinese, French, karate, violin, and yoga. Pre-K kids are of course not going to master (or even achieve competency in) any of those subjects. But my daughter is being exposed to them, which is not something that would happen if I or my wife stayed home.What could they be teaching a toddler that would possibly be "far outside" an adult's knowledge base.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Financially comfortable is a relative concept. You may be able to meet cash flow and save for retirement with one good income especially if you are willing to live frugally. But most people outside of this board tend to gravitate towards their peers standard of living. We still have to pay for little Johnny to soccer and baseball and football and lacrosse and when he turns 12 and he shows marginal promise we absolutely have to enroll him in "select" athletic leagues etc etc. and there are all the other trappings of middle class keeping up with the joneses.knpstr wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:04 pmOh I absolutely agree with you about financial strain on relationships. I was making the suggestion using the assumption that finances would not be an issue. That the family would be financially comfortable under 1 income. Hope that clears things up, as far as where I was coming from. I think that was the position of the first person in this discussion as well. Presumably working the 60-70 hour "well compensated" job each has they are making 6-figures each, meaning finances aren't really an issue in this case. It is just the preference of career identification versus family life.JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:37 am People assume they are competing interests. What is best for the parents may be best for the kids. Just because they spend more time doesn't mean it will be quality time. And people just seem to shrug off the financial pressures coming from a lower income. They are real and can cause conflict. If one persons subjegates themselves to a role they don't like, chances are the family will suffer. In some cases that leads to divorce which is the worst case scenario. Finances are typically the number one cause of divorce.
Also when one parent works and one doesn't it changes the dynamic of the relationship. For some that is no problem others it is. And again easy to say your single income is secure when the economy is rocking. When it tanks and Mr Breadwinner loses his job then the stress increases exponentially.
There are obviously pros and cons. My main point is what works for the relationship probably works best for the kid. If stay at home parent is bitter / unhappy about staying at home and nags on breadwinner parent and the relationship devolves then that is bad for the kids. Many here seem to think a woman not wanting to stay at home and cook bon bons for the kids has an moral failing. Not shockingly most of those are male and don't stay at home. But many people are different.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
60-70 hours a week for BOTH parents is too much. It's likely to harm your family.
But maybe there are ways you can make it work. Can one spouse work 7-4 and the other one work 9-6? Can both of you work from home late at night after the kids have gone to bed?
I wouldn't suggest that one parent quit, and the other continue to work 60-70 hours. That's just not a very good solution for most people, and especially not for two high achievers who are guilty about missing time with their children.
BOTH parents will end up guilty and bitter that way.
If you can't stagger scheduleds, then one person at least needs to cut back to a normal 40-50 hours a week job. Best if both can.
I don't know what you mean by highly compensated, but I bet it's possible you can find jobs with normal hours without having to take too huge of a paycut.
Start looking and see what's out there.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
The ultimate irony is that with a family, you need lots more money. And so it goes.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
I can't imagine it would be that huge. There ARE companies out there that pay their good people a ton of money, AND care about life-work balance.
Only really need one of you (either of you) to get a more flexible job to make things a lot easier at home.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
I've heard the song a million times, but that's the first time I've actually read the lyrics. I have a 2.5 year old daughter, and a 5 week old son... I travel a lot for work, (including multiple nights each of the past 2 weeks, weeks 3 and 4 of his life).... the lyrics are making me think a little bit.sunny_socal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:46 am My wife and I were both working when we got married.
After we had kids, my wife became a SAHM. It has been well worth it despite the fact that we could be making more $$. Time spent with the kids is priceless They grow up in the blink of an eye!
Consider this well known song:My child arrived just the other day
He came to the world in the usual way
But there were planes to catch, and bills to pay
He learned to walk while I was away
And he was talking 'fore I knew it, and as he grew
He'd say, I'm gonna be like you, dad
You know I'm gonna be like you
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you coming home, dad?
I don't know when
But we'll get together then
You know we'll have a good time then
My son turned ten just the other day
He said, thanks for the ball, dad, come on let's play
Can you teach me to throw, I said, not today
I got a lot to do, he said, that's okay
And he walked away, but his smile never dimmed
Said, I'm gonna be like him, yeah
You know I'm gonna be like him
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you coming home, dad?
I don't know when
But we'll get together then
You know we'll have a good time then
Well, he came from college just the other day
So much like a man I just had to say
Son, I'm proud of you
Can you sit for a while?
He shook his head, and he said with a smile
What I'd really like, dad, is to borrow the car keys
See you later
Can I have them please?
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you coming home, son?
I don't know when
But we'll get together then
You know we'll have a good time then
I've long since retired and my son's moved away
I called him up just the other day
I said, I'd like to see you if you don't mind
He said, I'd love to, dad, if I could find the time
You see, my new job's a hassle, and the kid's got the flu
But it's sure nice talking to you, dad
It's been sure nice talking to you
And as I hung up the phone, it occurred to me
He'd grown up just like me
My boy was just like me
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
When you coming home, son?
I don't know when
But we'll get together then
You know we'll have a good time then
I earn a good living, and I provide for my wife (SAHM) and daughter and hopefully son. I've got 529's, and 401k's, and an hour + commute... but I don't have enough time as I'd like for my family, and that sucks.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
If I understand it correctly, you see your children for 2 hours/day (morning OR night), and then on the weekends. Does your husband have the same schedule? Does either of you ever travel for work? That's additional time away. It's a personal decision, but 2 hrs/day during the week wouldn't be enough for my husband and me. We have 3 hrs in the morning and 2.5 hrs at night and then there's time to work after they go to bed. Less than that would bother us.vk8216 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:16 am I can handle unvarnished opinions and I do not need bumper guards on the bowling lanes. Part of me wishes I had written my post as the "husband" and somehow I imagine that less posters would have told me to become a stay at home husband but I am not looking to get into a larger discussion on implicit bias.
My normal schedule either has me with my kids in the morning for 2 hours or at night for bedtime from 6-8 pm and then I work afterwards. I do not normally work weekends (if I can avoid it) and if I do work weekends, I normally work during nap time.
I really enjoy my job. I do think at times I wish there was less of it. I also see staying in my job as providing opportunities for my children that I did not have as a child of a middle class family. I think it is important as a parent to be a happy parent. I appreciated the posters who pointed out that there are certain stay at home parents who find dissatisfaction in staying home and not having a career. I do not think you have to be a stay at home parent to be a great parent.
I really appreciate all of the posters who took the time to share their personal experiences with making this type of decision.
What are your fields? Would cutting back now put you permanently on a different, less interesting track?
For what it's worth, I absolutely think you would have gotten different responses if you'd written in as the husband. If you want to get the most out of this thread, on this forum, you should probably post some financial information.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
To the OP:
If this is really gnawing at you is there a way to have an extended leave of absence: maybe take 4-8 weeks even if unpaid. Spend that time at home with the kids (again i know stay at home mom is not your goal). Once done, was is wonderful? Do you think your kids were immensely better for it? Sometimes time away from work provides greater clarity.
I dont know exactly what you do but I've worked in corporate America long enough to see what/ who. succeeds in highly paid positions and management. Often my perception is those who have responsibility keep everything to themselves and don't delegate. Or they are involved in a very inefficient process that could be streamlined. I see many people who work long hours that could be more efficient. If you are valued enough at your company you may be able to restructure your job to where the hours are more palatable. Of course some up the chain value seeing butts in seats all hours of the day. But frankly I don't care what they think.
One of my problems in corporate America is I tend to work my way out of a job. I streamline work. Delegate. Focus on process. Stop doing stuff that adds no value. But there is a perceptual downside to that so I may not be the best on that front to give career advice.
Bottom line i would exhaust all options to reduce hours before you abandon a job you like and pays well.
If this is really gnawing at you is there a way to have an extended leave of absence: maybe take 4-8 weeks even if unpaid. Spend that time at home with the kids (again i know stay at home mom is not your goal). Once done, was is wonderful? Do you think your kids were immensely better for it? Sometimes time away from work provides greater clarity.
I dont know exactly what you do but I've worked in corporate America long enough to see what/ who. succeeds in highly paid positions and management. Often my perception is those who have responsibility keep everything to themselves and don't delegate. Or they are involved in a very inefficient process that could be streamlined. I see many people who work long hours that could be more efficient. If you are valued enough at your company you may be able to restructure your job to where the hours are more palatable. Of course some up the chain value seeing butts in seats all hours of the day. But frankly I don't care what they think.
One of my problems in corporate America is I tend to work my way out of a job. I streamline work. Delegate. Focus on process. Stop doing stuff that adds no value. But there is a perceptual downside to that so I may not be the best on that front to give career advice.
Bottom line i would exhaust all options to reduce hours before you abandon a job you like and pays well.
Last edited by JBTX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
You're comparing stay at home vs. stay working. In their solution and based on their inclination it would be can 1 or both cut back to 45-50 hrs/week from 60-70 for a significant improvement in Quality of life improvement IMO. 60-70 hours/week is almost never best for parents, and certainly isn't with both parents doing it. Slow down on the rate race to 45-50 hrs, still be fulfilled by your work and career but maybe don't go for being parents both being executive level positions?JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:44 pmFinancially comfortable is a relative concept. You may be able to meet cash flow and save for retirement with one good income especially if you are willing to live frugally. But most people outside of this board tend to gravitate towards their peers standard of living. We still have to pay for little Johnny to soccer and baseball and football and lacrosse and when he turns 12 and he shows marginal promise we absolutely have to enroll him in "select" athletic leagues etc etc. and there are all the other trappings of middle class keeping up with the joneses.knpstr wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:04 pmOh I absolutely agree with you about financial strain on relationships. I was making the suggestion using the assumption that finances would not be an issue. That the family would be financially comfortable under 1 income. Hope that clears things up, as far as where I was coming from. I think that was the position of the first person in this discussion as well. Presumably working the 60-70 hour "well compensated" job each has they are making 6-figures each, meaning finances aren't really an issue in this case. It is just the preference of career identification versus family life.JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:37 am People assume they are competing interests. What is best for the parents may be best for the kids. Just because they spend more time doesn't mean it will be quality time. And people just seem to shrug off the financial pressures coming from a lower income. They are real and can cause conflict. If one persons subjegates themselves to a role they don't like, chances are the family will suffer. In some cases that leads to divorce which is the worst case scenario. Finances are typically the number one cause of divorce.
Also when one parent works and one doesn't it changes the dynamic of the relationship. For some that is no problem others it is. And again easy to say your single income is secure when the economy is rocking. When it tanks and Mr Breadwinner loses his job then the stress increases exponentially.
There are obviously pros and cons. My main point is what works for the relationship probably works best for the kid. If stay at home parent is bitter / unhappy about staying at home and nags on breadwinner parent and the relationship devolves then that is bad for the kids. Many here seem to think a woman not wanting to stay at home and cook bon bons for the kids has an moral failing. Not shockingly most of those are male and don't stay at home. But many people are different.
Edit: Shoot, 60-70 hrs/week is very rarely the best without kids either. For me, 45-50 is the sweet spot and my wife can do 50-55 since she doesn't sleep as much...
Last edited by HornedToad on Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
I don't see how that number of minutes could be more than zero on weekdays. I work 50-55 hours per week and it is bad. I get up at 5:00am when our baby is sleeping and I come home at 6:00pm or later. Our baby goes to sleep at about 7pm. I usually get one hour per day with our baby (some days I'm lucky and get 90 minutes). I try to spend this entire hour playing with or bottle-feeding the baby to get some bonding time. I'd get no time at all if I was working 60-70 hours. No thanks.
When I was a little kid, my dad worked 80+ hours per week. One week he actually topped 100 hours. I was five years old at the time. That's when he decided to go back to school and get a college degree. Doing that allowed him to get a 40 hour/week job, which he's been doing for the last 30 years or so. Does he have a million dollar retirement fund? Nope. But he does have seven kids who have fond memories of spending time with their dad. And someday he'll be dead and at his funeral not a one of his kids will wish he kept the 80 hour/week job.
But only you can figure out what works for you and your family.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Another thought; if you have a long commute, move. We live 5-10min from work and it makes such a difference! (More time with children + less stress.)
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
HornedToad wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:59 pmYou're comparing stay at home vs. stay working. In their solution and based on their inclination it would be can 1 or both cut back to 45-50 hrs/week from 60-70 for a significant improvement in Quality of life improvement IMO. 60-70 hours/week is almost never best for parents, and certainly isn't with both parents doing it. Slow down on the rate race to 45-50 hrs, still be fulfilled by your work and career but maybe don't go for being parents both being executive level positions?JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:44 pmFinancially comfortable is a relative concept. You may be able to meet cash flow and save for retirement with one good income especially if you are willing to live frugally. But most people outside of this board tend to gravitate towards their peers standard of living. We still have to pay for little Johnny to soccer and baseball and football and lacrosse and when he turns 12 and he shows marginal promise we absolutely have to enroll him in "select" athletic leagues etc etc. and there are all the other trappings of middle class keeping up with the joneses.knpstr wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:04 pmOh I absolutely agree with you about financial strain on relationships. I was making the suggestion using the assumption that finances would not be an issue. That the family would be financially comfortable under 1 income. Hope that clears things up, as far as where I was coming from. I think that was the position of the first person in this discussion as well. Presumably working the 60-70 hour "well compensated" job each has they are making 6-figures each, meaning finances aren't really an issue in this case. It is just the preference of career identification versus family life.JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:37 am People assume they are competing interests. What is best for the parents may be best for the kids. Just because they spend more time doesn't mean it will be quality time. And people just seem to shrug off the financial pressures coming from a lower income. They are real and can cause conflict. If one persons subjegates themselves to a role they don't like, chances are the family will suffer. In some cases that leads to divorce which is the worst case scenario. Finances are typically the number one cause of divorce.
Also when one parent works and one doesn't it changes the dynamic of the relationship. For some that is no problem others it is. And again easy to say your single income is secure when the economy is rocking. When it tanks and Mr Breadwinner loses his job then the stress increases exponentially.
There are obviously pros and cons. My main point is what works for the relationship probably works best for the kid. If stay at home parent is bitter / unhappy about staying at home and nags on breadwinner parent and the relationship devolves then that is bad for the kids. Many here seem to think a woman not wanting to stay at home and cook bon bons for the kids has an moral failing. Not shockingly most of those are male and don't stay at home. But many people are different.
Edit: Shoot, 60-70 hrs/week is very rarely the best without kids either. For me, 45-50 is the sweet spot and my wife can do 50-55 since she doesn't sleep as much...
I'll agree with this. Working those hours for both parents is probably unsustainable unless you both have very good incomes and an awesome alternative caregiver. Like you I have no interest in working 60-70 hours. My experience is most of the people who say they do really don't. I tended to get in late and stay later. Rarely did I see people working past 6Pm. I think people tend to include their commute and lunch times also.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
This is not a problem. I do that continuously. Since I rarely stay at work past 4pm (come in between 8:30 and 9am on most days) I have become very efficient at my job with awesome productivity. I don't waste time during lunch, don't take long coffee or smoking breaks. Don't waste time at work pretty much at all (other than bogleheads! but that's usually during compilations or simulations). My productivity allows me to work less, have less face time at work and spend more time at home. Of course, being in a company and group that only cares about end results (not about butts in seats) helps immensely.JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:59 pm
One of my problems in corporate America is I tend to work my way out of a job. I streamline work. Delegate. Focus on process. Stop doing stuff that adds no value. But there is a perceptual downside to that so I may not be the best on that front to give career advice.
Re: Is it worth it?
So the working parent doesn't raise their children? Only the stay-at-home spouse? When the kids go to school, are they no longer being raised by either parent? A stay-at-home parent is only with the kids 10% more than a working spouse at that point.jabberwockOG wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:27 amIf a couple can figure out a way to earn adequate income to afford for one of them to stay home and parent - care for and raise their kids than that is what should happen. No amount of money is worth letting others raise your children. They are only small and need you desperately for a tiny amount of time....don't waste it.
No one else is "raising your children". Day-care or school with 20 other children is a diluted adult experience. The day-care provider or teacher is not "raising your kid". Kids get raised by and learn their values from working parents just as much as from stay-at-home parents.
That said, 60-70 hours for BOTH parents is extreme. If the jobs are flexible (if one can do some of those hours when the children are asleep at night), then maybe it can still work.
40 hours, especially flexible 40 hours, for two parents is not an issue at all. Kids are in school 6-7 hours a day anyway.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
It's one of the reasons I enjoy consulting gigs more than full time employment. I have a task/mission/scope and I'm evaluated about how effectively I accomplish that. Since i bill by the hour they are very conscious of how many hours I bill. I don't have to go to staff meetings. No idiotic corporate motivational retreats. Less water cooler chit chat. No employees crying and all their personal problems.new2bogle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:14 pmThis is not a problem. I do that continuously. Since I rarely stay at work past 4pm (come in between 8:30 and 9am on most days) I have become very efficient at my job with awesome productivity. I don't waste time during lunch, don't take long coffee or smoking breaks. Don't waste time at work pretty much at all (other than bogleheads! but that's usually during compilations or simulations). My productivity allows me to work less, have less face time at work and spend more time at home. Of course, being in a company and group that only cares about end results (not about butts in seats) helps immensely.JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:59 pm
One of my problems in corporate America is I tend to work my way out of a job. I streamline work. Delegate. Focus on process. Stop doing stuff that adds no value. But there is a perceptual downside to that so I may not be the best on that front to give career advice.
Downside is these things come and go and you lack predictability of where you are going to be in a few months.
Last edited by JBTX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Wife and I are both relatively high income (although not necessarily by BH standards) and this topic has come up and we're still sorting out how it works. Right now we're trying to manufacture time and some of the ideas we've gotten (similar to previous posters):
Some of the things we've thought of or considered:
-Hire someone to clean your house once/twice a week.
-Order dinner in, or grab take out a couple of nights a week
-Order groceries via a delivery service, amazon fresh
-Punt as many regular household tasks to a third party
Good luck!
Some of the things we've thought of or considered:
-Hire someone to clean your house once/twice a week.
-Order dinner in, or grab take out a couple of nights a week
-Order groceries via a delivery service, amazon fresh
-Punt as many regular household tasks to a third party
Good luck!
Re: Is it worth it?
Or run the household on the wife's income while HE stays home. As you may have inferred, I'm a big fan of the now-frowned-upon "work as a team and do what's best for your own situation" option.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
I don't think it is worth it.
Find a way to reduce your work hours from "at least 60-70" to "40 to 50".
Find a way to reduce your work hours from "at least 60-70" to "40 to 50".
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Just my 2 cents...
First, make sure it's really a question of not seeing your children enough vs. not having any time left with your spouse after you both work and spend time with the kids. It doesn't leave a lot of quality couple time before you go to sleep and do it all over again. With a regular 60 hr/wk schedule I'd question if I'm working my life away and missing the things that matter most not just kid-time.
If only one spouse (could be either) works less, what are they doing with the extra time? Are they spending more quality time that they truly enjoy with the kids? Or are they stuck in the "child care grind" because they're home, being expected to do more cleaning, household stuff, errands, etc?
With 4 kids under 8 (and a stay a home wife)... I feel like we all enjoy time with them more as they get older (say, 5+) than when they were babies/toddlers. You always love them and you're always a family but you can to do stuff together ("as a team" as I tell mine). You get to do stuff WITH them as opposed to FOR them. Sometimes fun stuff other times mundane things like grocery shopping-- but still enjoyable quality time spent together.
One other thing is energy... mid-30's I had a lot more of it! Those long hours at work may feel even harder as homework/activities place more of a burden on your few free hours as you and your kids get older.
First, make sure it's really a question of not seeing your children enough vs. not having any time left with your spouse after you both work and spend time with the kids. It doesn't leave a lot of quality couple time before you go to sleep and do it all over again. With a regular 60 hr/wk schedule I'd question if I'm working my life away and missing the things that matter most not just kid-time.
If only one spouse (could be either) works less, what are they doing with the extra time? Are they spending more quality time that they truly enjoy with the kids? Or are they stuck in the "child care grind" because they're home, being expected to do more cleaning, household stuff, errands, etc?
With 4 kids under 8 (and a stay a home wife)... I feel like we all enjoy time with them more as they get older (say, 5+) than when they were babies/toddlers. You always love them and you're always a family but you can to do stuff together ("as a team" as I tell mine). You get to do stuff WITH them as opposed to FOR them. Sometimes fun stuff other times mundane things like grocery shopping-- but still enjoyable quality time spent together.
One other thing is energy... mid-30's I had a lot more of it! Those long hours at work may feel even harder as homework/activities place more of a burden on your few free hours as you and your kids get older.
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
My take upon reading OP's initial post was "how are they not exhausted?"
DH and I have a toddler and a preschooler, and both of us work full time. But our hours are around 40/week for me and 35/week for him (but with rotating day/evening/overnight/weekend hours). However, we feel stretched with the constant demands of work and home life, and are both planning to reduce our hours in the next year.
I can't imagine both of us working 60-70 hours/wk and still feeling like we have enough time for the kids, each other, our friends, and ourselves. It sounds like you both love your jobs a lot more than I do (and some days I'm an, at best, "in like" with my job). But, I can't imagine that your situation is sustainable for the long term.
DH and I have a toddler and a preschooler, and both of us work full time. But our hours are around 40/week for me and 35/week for him (but with rotating day/evening/overnight/weekend hours). However, we feel stretched with the constant demands of work and home life, and are both planning to reduce our hours in the next year.
I can't imagine both of us working 60-70 hours/wk and still feeling like we have enough time for the kids, each other, our friends, and ourselves. It sounds like you both love your jobs a lot more than I do (and some days I'm an, at best, "in like" with my job). But, I can't imagine that your situation is sustainable for the long term.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Thanks sunny_socal. I'm leaving an hour early today to see my sons. Will have to work later tonight, after they have gone to sleep, to catch up.sunny_socal wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:46 am My wife and I were both working when we got married.
After we had kids, my wife became a SAHM. It has been well worth it despite the fact that we could be making more $$. Time spent with the kids is priceless They grow up in the blink of an eye!
Consider this well known song:
Re: Is it worth it?
Yes, that works as well. Certainly the one that stays at home would be the one with the far more important job. But as OP suggested even that isn't something they'd be willing to consider. Also, I think what you suggested is more in vogue in our present culture, than what I suggested.
Obviously, both working also is an option, I just don't think it is what is best for the kids and should be done as a last resort. Further, I think the parents are more likely to regret this situation (both working) decades later.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Who is going to remember you. Your Job or family...There is not a person on their death bed wish they worked more but a lot with they had spent more time with family
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Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Given your work schedule, how do you possibly spend even 2 hours/day with your kids.
A 70 hour, 5 day work week equates to 14 hours per day. This doesn't include commuting time, so let's say 15 hours total per day.
- If you spend 2 hours in the morning (7-9am), that would mean you don't get home until midnight (9am - 12am = 15hrs)?
- And if you spend 2 hours in the afternoon (6-8pm), then you are at work from 6am-6pm (12hrs), then work at home from 8-11pm (3hrs)?
I fail to see ANY benefit to this work/life balance, aside from hoarding piles of money.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Interesting discussion. Continues to remind me how much everyone is different and how insecure we all are about our choices, even when we defend them vehemently.
There's just no one right answer for everyone on this.
I do think it's worth considering:
1. The more time your kids spend with you, the better off they will be and the more like you they will be. A parent's attention and love is poorly substituted by anyone else's. Kids also learn a lot by watching the actions of the people they are around the most - not by listening to their words. There are very nice people out there that I wouldn't want my kids to emulate.
That said, we live in a world of scarcity. You can't always be there to "raise" a child and provide an example. Similarly, not everyone can home school. Trade offs have to be made at various points in life.
2. The above post about not being remembered at work rings true. You may be fondly remembered on occasion by a few, but 99.9% of the time, the work moves on whether you are canned, retire, or die.
I traveled halfway across the country to see my father as he called for me on his death bed. I knew the end was neigh, but I missed him by 15 minutes because I felt I had to stay the previous day at work to get something done on an unimportant, long-forgotten project, at a job where no one appreciated me. I'll regret it to my dying day, if ever I live that long. Just had to get one more day of work in. The ironic thing is he probably would have done the same.
So to each his own, but the above two considerations are prominent in all the decisions I've made about working and spending time with children. I still don't have it down perfectly, but if I don't have that beach house when I retire, so be it.
Keep the important stuff in mind, and you'll figure it out.
JT
There's just no one right answer for everyone on this.
I do think it's worth considering:
1. The more time your kids spend with you, the better off they will be and the more like you they will be. A parent's attention and love is poorly substituted by anyone else's. Kids also learn a lot by watching the actions of the people they are around the most - not by listening to their words. There are very nice people out there that I wouldn't want my kids to emulate.
That said, we live in a world of scarcity. You can't always be there to "raise" a child and provide an example. Similarly, not everyone can home school. Trade offs have to be made at various points in life.
2. The above post about not being remembered at work rings true. You may be fondly remembered on occasion by a few, but 99.9% of the time, the work moves on whether you are canned, retire, or die.
I traveled halfway across the country to see my father as he called for me on his death bed. I knew the end was neigh, but I missed him by 15 minutes because I felt I had to stay the previous day at work to get something done on an unimportant, long-forgotten project, at a job where no one appreciated me. I'll regret it to my dying day, if ever I live that long. Just had to get one more day of work in. The ironic thing is he probably would have done the same.
So to each his own, but the above two considerations are prominent in all the decisions I've made about working and spending time with children. I still don't have it down perfectly, but if I don't have that beach house when I retire, so be it.
Keep the important stuff in mind, and you'll figure it out.
JT
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
I was wondering the same thing. I wake up at the same time as my kids, take them to school, and get to work by 9 and get home at 6. My wife leaves for work at 7:15 and picks up the kids at 4:15. Even with a short commute, pretty short work week, and a staggered schedule, I feel like that doesn't leave that much time. I don't know how 60-70 hours per week would really leave any time from M-F.LiterallyIronic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:00 pmI don't see how that number of minutes could be more than zero on weekdays. I work 50-55 hours per week and it is bad. I get up at 5:00am when our baby is sleeping and I come home at 6:00pm or later. Our baby goes to sleep at about 7pm. I usually get one hour per day with our baby (some days I'm lucky and get 90 minutes). I try to spend this entire hour playing with or bottle-feeding the baby to get some bonding time. I'd get no time at all if I was working 60-70 hours. No thanks.
When I was a little kid, my dad worked 80+ hours per week. One week he actually topped 100 hours. I was five years old at the time. That's when he decided to go back to school and get a college degree. Doing that allowed him to get a 40 hour/week job, which he's been doing for the last 30 years or so. Does he have a million dollar retirement fund? Nope. But he does have seven kids who have fond memories of spending time with their dad. And someday he'll be dead and at his funeral not a one of his kids will wish he kept the 80 hour/week job.
But only you can figure out what works for you and your family.
When people do work long hours, it's generally only 1 parent and the other one runs the household. That frees up time for the working parent to be able to come home, drop their stuff, and go coach their soccer team or whatever.
Re: Is it worth it? [demanding jobs vs time with family]
Money isn't the end all be all that people think it is. We live in a society where people worship the dollar. Most people I know who work 40++ hours a week, do so because they love money.
I've always wondered where the standard 40 hour work week even came from. Who decided that 40 hours is a full time gig? 30 hours is a full time gig to me. As a self employed contractor, I've made anywhere from 50k-140k working 28-34 hours per week. I do not and typically will not work more than 6.5hr per day...and I pride myself on that fact. I'm good enough at what I do that I can accomplish what needs to be done in a 5.5-6hr window.
Being self employed allows us to home school our son. He went to public schools for kindergarten and first grade. We QUICKLY discovered that MOST if not all public schools are a glorified baby sitter, especially at grade school levels. Home schooling, coupled with our low weekly hours, allows us to spend as much time as possible with him. He's learning the world from his mom and dad, not in a room with 25 rowdy children being tended to by a teacher who is often over worked, under paid and is basically a paid sitter/teacher.
I've always wondered where the standard 40 hour work week even came from. Who decided that 40 hours is a full time gig? 30 hours is a full time gig to me. As a self employed contractor, I've made anywhere from 50k-140k working 28-34 hours per week. I do not and typically will not work more than 6.5hr per day...and I pride myself on that fact. I'm good enough at what I do that I can accomplish what needs to be done in a 5.5-6hr window.
Being self employed allows us to home school our son. He went to public schools for kindergarten and first grade. We QUICKLY discovered that MOST if not all public schools are a glorified baby sitter, especially at grade school levels. Home schooling, coupled with our low weekly hours, allows us to spend as much time as possible with him. He's learning the world from his mom and dad, not in a room with 25 rowdy children being tended to by a teacher who is often over worked, under paid and is basically a paid sitter/teacher.