Public vs Private Elementary

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
User avatar
celia
Posts: 11547
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:32 am
Location: SoCal

Re: Public vs Private Elementary

Post by celia »

Since "diversity" is now being discussed in this thread, I remember another thread where I said there was nothing wrong with schools being "homogeneous" when it applies to certain attributes: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=206226&p=3170131&#p3170131
User avatar
celia
Posts: 11547
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:32 am
Location: SoCal

Re: Public vs Private Elementary

Post by celia »

Watty wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:38 pm
squirm wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:31 pm Go private. The bad and disruptive kids get expelled quickly.
It may be a few decades out of date but when I was in high school the few kids that I knew of who were in danger of being expelled usually went to the local Catholic school after being suspended a few times.
LOL, And where do you think the kids go who get expelled from private schools (although, admittedly, there are fewer of these since the parents usually take care of the problem first)?
lightheir
Posts: 2493
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Public vs Private Elementary

Post by lightheir »

Jonathan wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:49 pm
lightheir wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:11 pmINTELLECTUAL diversity is what I'm referring to. I don't think political views should have any impact on teaching or understanding intellectual diversity. You don't need to have diehard alt-creationists in the classroom to study and analyze their point of view, and the tools to fairly critique and analyze the viewpoints can also be learned and utilized without political affiliation.
I don't think political views should have any impact on learning. In practice, my experience has been that they do, and that such a bias is unavoidable.

Similarly, I don't think that political views should have any impact on news, but I know that they do, I know that I can't remove that bias, and I know that I can mitigate that bias simply by exposing myself to news sources of varying political positions.

Ideally, you can analyze intellectual diversity separate from politics, but it's much more laborious. You could sit in on multiple teachers' classes, multiple times, and analyze their previous writings and backgrounds. Pragmatically, the voter databases are a great publicly-available tool for diversity analysis; you can run the teachers' names, cross-reference them against the political party registration info, and produce a pie chart displaying political bias fairly quickly. If I'm analyzing a school's teachers, and I see that they're roughly split left/right, I feel much more comfortable than if I see a clear political bias.

Creationism is a tough one. I'm not sure it's categorized as intellectualism in the first place (outside of very mild Creationist concepts). But if roughly half my voting country is in one political party, and half in the other, then I want my child to receive exposure to both, and to develop meaningful relationships with both peers and mentors who affiliate with both parties.
I don't care what political affililation my child's teacher is whatsoever.

As long as they do a top-notch job in teaching, which includes scientific thinking, fair logic critiques, and openness to multiple perspectives, I'll take that regardless of political affiliation.

While there can be some 'bias' arguably implicit in anyone's thinking based on their world/political viewpoint, I will strongly counterargue that for GOOD teachers, this bias is so insignificant in comparison that it's not even worth considering. Even if their politics skew totally different than mine, they will be such good teachers that I won't even bat an eye at it.

If this were not a teaching job, and rather a job on political TV commentary, I absolutely would consider their political perspectives. Thankfully, it's not, and I feel very secure in saying that good teaching should and can exist even with whatever political biases are out there.

And the cold, hard reality is that is most places, the political demographics skew heavily one way or another. So odds are that unless you make moving to such an area a top priority for you, you're not going to find such 'politically balanced' school districts and communities.
JBTX
Posts: 7137
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Public vs Private Elementary

Post by JBTX »

There have been controlled studies that have generally shown the outcomes (test scores etc) is just as good in public schools vs private when you control for demographic factors. In fact in terms of academics public schools did slightly better than religious based private schools (again controlling for demographics )

From the little bit of exposure we have seen with private schools there tends to be a fair amount of turnover and obviously they have to limit what they spend to keep costs down. Also the ones that are good tend to quickly get promoted upward. Public schools you often have teachers serving for many years after some initial post college turnover.

To me you are better off going to public school and using some of they saved money to pay for private tutors.

The only reason I can really see going to private school if a particular kid is struggling in the teenage rat race and social pressure of a large middle school or high school or if that particular school has a lot of crime or extreme behavioral issues. i struggle to see the benefit of a private elementary school.
jbolden1517
Posts: 868
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:53 pm

Re: Public vs Private Elementary

Post by jbolden1517 »

staythecourse wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:01 am
jbolden1517 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:53 am The school cares a great deal about your satisfaction and will do things to address your concerns. In a public school you are a resident taking a government provided service.
I would be interested to hear an expansion on this point. It may or may not be true. It may or may not be a good thing. On the first point if everyone at the private school is paying then how would the school address concerns for every single kid in the school.
The same way a good hotel addresses the needs of each guest relative to a bad hotel. They pay more attention, they care more and sometimes allocate additional resources towards accommodations. It starts with things like lower teacher to student ratios in the classes. The teachers have more flexibility. It continues with more administrators per student and those administrators having far more flexibility. Then you have the private equivalent of the PTA having real power. The board quite often is composed parents...
staythecourse wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:01 am On the second, if it is not an academic issue then I don't think it is a good thing to be using influence. Meaning, if you are trying to get your kid moved a more challenging math class is one thing. If it is "Mary doesn't get along with Cindy so I want to have her change classes" is detrimental.
Private schools tend to intervene in student problems so that sort of thing never even has to be addressed by parents. They make sure students aren't unhappy and these sorts of bad dynamics don't develop in the first place.
staythecourse wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:01 am Life does not work like that. In the real world, folks need to meet obstacles head on and not try to circumvent the issue by parental influence.
I think we disagree here. I think life works like that a whole lot. People with influence and juice get all sorts of benefits that those without it don't have.
staythecourse wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:01 am Also, this must be regional. I live in a major metro. city and the top private schools don't really care at all about what the parents want. They have a long waiting list of other parents willing to join and pay the fee. They are smart NOT to be influenced by parents as parents are no different then kids... Give them an inch and they take a foot.
I suspect that situation is unlikely to last. This is a capitalist country if private schools have that kind of demand many more will open. There probably are some seller's markets in the USA but in general private school, like most luxury goods, is a buyer's market.
User avatar
c.coyle
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:10 pm
Location: Eastern Pa.

Re: Public vs Private Elementary

Post by c.coyle »

A few observations from a parent who had both kids go to Catholic schools:

1. As someone mentioned previously, I constantly heard of kids entering local Catholic schools from the public system and struggling, at least initially. And Catholic school kids coasting when they switched to public schools This could be due to localized factors, although our public schools are generally very good. I have no idea if this was a longterm effect or just adjustment issues that resolved with time.

2. From what I could tell, the Catholic schools were better in "liberal arts" curricula: Reading well, writing clearly, critical and analytical thinking, history, humanities, and so forth. Writing was integrated throughout, with lots of papers and essays in all subjects. Public schools were superior in science and math. Both of my boys initially struggled with science and math in college.

3. Regarding Point 2, I am in a profession that puts a premium on critical thinking and expressing oneself clearly and persuasively, orally and in writing. I am repeatedly appalled when hiring bright young people with good family, economic, social, and educational backgrounds who can't string together a few clear sentences into a cogent paragraph. I mean they can't write for shit. Admittedly, my sample size is small, but those who can write well more often than not have gone to private schools.

4. All-in-all, I would say sending my kids to Catholic schools didn't result in a significant lifelong advantage, other than the religious part. If I had to do it over, I would probably opt for a good public school.
VTSAX - 50%, VBTLX - 50%
mmcmonster
Posts: 493
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:18 pm

Re: Public vs Private Elementary

Post by mmcmonster »

LEB1230 wrote: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:43 pm We already pay for school through taxes. As long as your in a good public school system I see no advantage to paying for private school.
I am a product of public schooling (though high school). I insisted when we had kids that we would at least give public schools a shot.

So we bought a house in the best public school district within reasonable driving range of my work. (So I commute 30 minutes daily.) Now the kids are going into 5th and 8th grades and we're quite happy leaving them in through high school.

We have a slight concern that the high school guidance counselors aren't going to steer them properly towards the right colleges. That being said, when it gets to that time we can drop a couple thousand for personalized guidance counseling outside of the school.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 67335
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Public vs Private Elementary

Post by LadyGeek »

I removed an off-topic post. This thread has run its course and is locked (contentious disagreements, divisive). See: Locked Topics
Moderators or site admins may lock a topic (set it so no more replies may be added) when a violation of posting policy has occurred. Occasionally, even if there are no overt violations of posting policy, a topic (or thread) will reach a point where the information content of the discussion has been essentially exhausted and further replies are much more likely to cause distress to the community than add anything of value.
Also see: Personal Consumer Issues
Note that this subforum has a much lower threshold for locking or removing posts than the financial and investing subforums. In general, controversial, offensive, pointless, divisive or mean-spirited posts or topics may be locked, edited or deleted (with or without notice) at the discretion of the moderating staff even if they do not otherwise violate forum policies.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Locked