Garage Remodeling

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oragne lovre
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:34 pm

Garage Remodeling

Post by oragne lovre » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:39 pm

I have a 3-car garage that is about 20 years old. I now feel the need to upgrade of re-organize it for following main reasons

1. My kids are grown up and I need to add at least one more car to the family fleet
2. A wall-mounting garage door opener may give the garage more over-head space where I can add some overhead storage racks
3. An epoxy floor coating that may help make maintenance easier; it's difficult to clean up my current cement floor

Any comments from Bogleheads who have gone through "garage remodeling" are appreciated.
The finest, albeit the most difficult, of all human achievements is being reasonable.

toblerone
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by toblerone » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:29 pm

I did this, for a 3-car garage a few years ago. It can be a major disruption if you use your garage a lot, much like a kitchen remodel, but well worth it.

I broke it down into 2 phases: Phase 1, before I had to clear everything out, and Phase 2, when it made sense to have the garage completely empty.

Phase 1:
Replaced original 20 yr old contractor grade garage doors with high R value doors
Added / upgraded electrical outlets and lighting
Insulated exterior walls and attic area

Phase 2:
Rented a POD for my driveway, and loaded everything from the garage into the POD
Installed drywall over insulation, textured and painted entire garage
Cleaned and acid-etched floor, and allowed to dry (very important to be thorough with this step)
Two coats Rustoleum epoxy (with the flakes) and one clear coat with the traction sand
(It's important to not use a water based epoxy if you really want it to last - get the good stuff which is not available at the local HD)
Bring everything back into the garage

Afterward I installed the heavy duty Rubbermaid racks high along the walls, which look great and provide a lot of storage space.

Good luck!

Girino
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Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:29 pm

Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by Girino » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:53 pm

My suggestions would depend on knowing a bit more about your priorities and situation. Since you have a three car garage and you want to add another car, I assume that means you have two cars in it now but the third bay is full of other stuff that you need to move to make room?

Will the garage be used mostly for parking cars and storage, or do you need shop space? Working in the garage usually implies adding lighting and other electrical circuits, maybe insulation and climate control depending on where you live, what you do, and what is already there.

If you are mostly just storing cars and your stuff like gardening and recreation equipment, I wouldn't bother with an epoxy floor coating unless you like the look. If your current floor is hard to sweep, I recommend just blowing it out with an electric leaf blower or dog hair dryer (like a ChallengeAir or similar).

Overhead storage is a great use of space for lightweight items. Some garages have skimpy ceiling joists that can't handle too much extra weight, though, so it is worth doing some inspection and calculations, especially if you are in an earthquake zone.

oragne lovre
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:34 pm

Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by oragne lovre » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:42 am

@toblerone,
Does high R-value door require more maintenance than a regular one in the long run?

@Girino,
I do want to clear the third bay to make room for a third car. I probably just store cars and recreational equipment. I live in earthquake-prone Southern California and thus wanting to change ceiling-mounting door opener to a wall-mounting one.
The finest, albeit the most difficult, of all human achievements is being reasonable.

BW1985
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by BW1985 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:56 am

toblerone wrote: Cleaned and acid-etched floor, and allowed to dry (very important to be thorough with this step)
Two coats Rustoleum epoxy (with the flakes) and one clear coat with the traction sand
(It's important to not use a water based epoxy if you really want it to last - get the good stuff which is not available at the local HD)
How difficult is this to do yourself, can a novice handle it?
"Squirrels figured out how to save eons ago. They buried acorns. Some, they dug up, for food. Others, they let to sprout, in new oak trees. We could learn from squirrels." -john94549

new2bogle
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by new2bogle » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:02 am

BW1985 wrote:
toblerone wrote: Cleaned and acid-etched floor, and allowed to dry (very important to be thorough with this step)
Two coats Rustoleum epoxy (with the flakes) and one clear coat with the traction sand
(It's important to not use a water based epoxy if you really want it to last - get the good stuff which is not available at the local HD)
How difficult is this to do yourself, can a novice handle it?
My brother in law did this with his garage with great (but not professional) looking results. He is not a handy man either. Takes a bit of elbow grease and time, but can be done for a novice. Watch the appropriate youtube vids.

Ecorp
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by Ecorp » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:51 pm

I built a golf hitting bay with net and mat on one side of my garage. Upgrading with a projector and simulator this winter. Car sits in driveway, lol

BIGal
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by BIGal » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:29 pm

Epoxy the floor. I had mine done professionally. I have had friends do theirs themselves and believe me, the difference is striking. I would compare it to repainting your vehicle.....can a person do it on their own....sure....what will it look like....what do you think. Our garage was already insulated and sheet rocked and had been painted when we built the home 20 years ago. I totally removed everything including anything that was hung up on the walls. I then patched any holes/dings and repainted the entire garage....the ceiling was white and in fine shape. The epoxy was 5k (3 car garage) and I spent another $100 on paint. EVERY time I go into my garage I am glad that I did the work and the floor looks as good as the day it was done (3 years ago).

toblerone
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by toblerone » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:42 pm

oragne lovre wrote:Does high R-value door require more maintenance than a regular one in the long run?
Higher R-value just means it's better insulated, and I suppose higher overall quality.
oragne lovre wrote:How difficult is this (floor) to do yourself, can a novice handle it?
Yes, as a previous poster said, a novice can do it, if you are somewhat handy, and have the available elbow grease and time. In my case, I had planned for the contractor who did the drywall and wall/ceiling paint to do the floor. After a day watching them try to do the floor, it was clear I would do a better job myself, so I fired them (amicably) and did so. It looks professional EXCEPT the clear coat (missed a few spots, pooled up in others). I recommend a lot of lighting when you do the clear coat so this doesn't happen to you.

BanquetBeer
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by BanquetBeer » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:51 pm

I dont think the insulated doors are more work to upkeep. The standard door is sheet metal bent into a C where as the insulated doors are filled with insulation and have metal on both sides. I just bought 3/4" foam board and scored/wedged/taped it into my current garage door. Great at cutting down heat when the sun shines on it bur probably less fire resistant.

Problem I face is that the insulation works both ways. The garage doesnt cool down at night (especially with a warm car parked in there). Need some sort of ventilation or AC!

Another thing is I changes out our garage door opener for a belt drive unit - a lot quieter. If you get the garage door done see how they can reduce the spring/track noise.

I think the epoxy floor looks nice but are you going to keep it swept clean? If you dont plan on treating it like an indoor space or changing fluids in there it may not be worth it to you.

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by Epsilon Delta » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:26 am

If you are concerned about earthquake hazards you might want to consider other, more common, hazards from an attached garage. These include fire hazard (stored fuel), CO hazard (running engines), and a wet area for electrical work. Building codes usually require mitigation but older garages were not constructed to modern codes, and it's not uncommon to find modifications that negate the protection: some people take the view that it's just a garage.
Last edited by Epsilon Delta on Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:47 am

How high is the interior of the garage? Is there height to put in a 4 post lift? This can be used to extend storage, but remember that it is much wider than just a car so figure out if you are actually adding car storage or taking up too much room to the side of it. I bought mine to store a toy car some years ago and found that for oil changes or exhaust work it's been extremely useful.
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sesq
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by sesq » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:00 am

In my last house I did the DIY epoxy from HD/Lowes when we first moved in. I took extra precautions when I did adding a polyurethene clear coat on top that I got off the internet. I still had "hot tire pickup" where part of the epoxy is ripped off. That part wasn't so attractive but did not materially change the overall utility.

A few years later we did a full install of gladiator products. There is typically a sale in January at all the big retailers (amazon, HD, Sears, Lowes) and I had a spreadsheet that tracked the price difference of all the hooks, shelves and wall parts themselves. By shopping around, using coupons, shopping portals and buying discounted gift cards we knocked 20% off for sure. We undid some of those savings running a space heater in a 3 car garage but my wife and I were able to do it in about a weeks worth of evenings. You need a good drill as there were a ton of screws to secure the wall slats. I made a few jokes about that with minimal appreciation.

Just before we sold my wife repainted the garage. Even with the hot tire pickup people said it was a real asset in the sale.

We didn't have the desire to do it again in the new house the first year in. If we do it I will have a pro do the floor, and maybe the walls.

bhchica
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by bhchica » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:57 am

Re the floor, instead of going the epoxy route, you can buy flooring to cover the floor. Ours is a rolled product made of vinyl. It has a channeled texture, easier to clean. We bought it to cover the old concrete, which was cracked and pitted.

nickjoy
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Re: Garage Remodeling

Post by nickjoy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:15 pm

Hello Everybody,

I worked for a garage door company for about 8 years and my father owned it since 1984 I believe. He gave/sold it at cost to my uncle 5 years ago. Just to establish my credibility.

I would recommend not getting a jackshaft operator unless you have absolute minimum of 3 feet vertical lift. (A jackshaft operator is the kind that hooks directly onto the shaft above the door and turns that, which turns the drums, which pulls on the cables that lift the door). The reason being is that unless there is constant weight on the cables, that kind of operator can 'throw cables'. This is where they get slack and will unspool off the drums. This usually happens on one side and then the door can go caddywompus and hopefully kink there while stuck. If you're unlucky it can go caddywompus enough that the top rollers flip out, then the top of the door drops (onto whatever car you have there).

However, if you have 3-4 feet of vertical lift first, there is always a good amount of weight on the cables so this doesn't happen. However, you need a garage with very high ceiling for that.

If you don't have ceilings that high, check out an R30 track. A regular track is R12 (radius of 12 inches on the curve) and an R30 has a bigger curve so that it will go higher and give you more usable space underneath.

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For the door. There are several different types, uninsulated, poly-back, and sandwich are by far the most common for residential. Uninsulated is basically the C-Channel the other guy mentioned. Polybacked is that same door but with insulation in it (the insulation is styrofoam with plastic on one side to make it look nice, hence poly-back name). And the sandwich is insulated 'sandwiched' between sheets of metal.

There is also a difference in depth. 1.5 inch vs 1.75 inch vs 2 inch. But that's a different discussion.

If the garage is insulated, get at least a polybacked door. If you have living space above the garage, poly backed or sandwich will be fine, sandwich will be quieter. Also, ask about the rollers. The steel ones are much louder, the CHEAP plastic ones wear out really quick, the NICE plastic ones are plastic with steel ball bearings and they last forever and are real quiet. So quiet you won't wake up your wife when you come back late at night.

Be wary of R factor quotes. Some door manufacturers cut their door up, and seal them in a test chamber to get their R factor, which then is obviously skewed. Others do an entire panel and line it with weather stripping, which is much much better. A few do the entire door which is the best. Also, if you get a row of glass, know that it's R factor is essentially 0 (I think the exact number is 1.2 or something). But the R factor quote will never take that panel of glass into account.

DO NOT ADD EXTRA INSULATION TO YOUR DOOR YOURSELF!!!!!!! If you do, it will still work, but you're wearing everything out super fast. The doors are a specific weight and are counterbalanced exactly with the springs so that the operator doesn't lift the door. It merely puts the door into motion. The springs lift the door, not the motor. It's based on a catapault in design (check History channel, I watched a 1 hour documentary on it, weird documentaries come on at 2 in the morning). You can definitely make an uninsulated door insulated, but you'll have to adjust the springs. A piece of rebar will technically fit in the springs, but I 've seen it where that rebar bent and pinned a mans hand to the spring and then kept turning.

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For the operator, spend the extra $25 bucks and get a belt drive. I practically only sold Liftmaster units which uses the same belt as Harley Davidson just half as wide and 15 feet long. Belts don't wear out. My company replaced one belt tensioner in it's entire history but we've replace thousands of chains and sprockets, we always kept 4 on the truck and I have run out of them in a single day.

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All doors require the same upkeep regardless of price/r factor.

Sorry for the mega mega mega post, and I glazed over a lot of stuff. But if you have any questions, please feel free to PM me. Also, if you're in the MD area, my uncle can do real good work for you.

Regards,


NJ

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