Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

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4nwestsaylng
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Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by 4nwestsaylng » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:29 pm

Really this question is not about how to shop for a boat (condition, etc) but any experiences with the build quality or design of some of the well known makes: Catalina, Cal, J class, Hunter, Erickson, San Juan, and also thoughts about these fiberglas boats vs some of the classic wooden sailboats such as the Thunderbird. Primarily will use for sailing a large lake ( 15 miles long) and sometimes the San Juan/Gulf Islands.

I know, "a boat is a hole you pour money into" That, I don't want to do, I would rather pay more for one in top shape, and then enjoy sailing and basic maintenance. I have restored 15 foot sailboats, from hole patching to endless sanding to paint layers and rigging, and it is worth paying for that work to have been already done by some perfectionist owner.

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thecarrotfund
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Re: Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by thecarrotfund » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:54 pm

We had a Hunter and loved it. Really balanced and well made.
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WhyNotUs
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Re: Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by WhyNotUs » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:55 pm

I have a Hunter in that range and it is a solid boat, nothing fancy or particularly elegant but works hard and keeps ticking.

Catalina 25's are a nice boat for sleeping and time at anchor or slip.

I would focus on 25- 27 rather than 22 if you want to spend the night on the boat and have meals. 22 is tight for that. 22 can be a realistic trailer sailor.

Fiberglass seems like a safer bet and easier for resale. All of the boats that you mention have a good rep. so it really comes down to the individual boat. Popular brands are easier to resell later.
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Jim Beaux
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Re: Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by Jim Beaux » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:57 pm

Ive been sailing for 30+ years along the southeast Tex upper coast. For the past 10 years I kept my 32' CC Oday on Galveston Bay. I have lived aboard & was an active member of the boating community. My experience is a combination of my & the experiences of the hundreds of my marina neighbors.

1. Wooden boats are a labor of love that will enslave you. I love em, but I would never own one. A fiberglass boat demands enough maintenance without adding wood to the equation.
2. Personally, I would not have a 25' as it is too small. Consider at minimum 27'. Two linear feet is a lot more boat when you consider the cubic area-that you really need for storage.
3. If you buy an inboard be sure its not a gasoline. Also be sure that if you buy an inboard that it is a popular engine, as part$ are often non-existent; especially if youre in an area that doesnt have many boat shops. (Galveston has one of the largest boating concentrations & had several well stocked boating stores, but even there it's near impossible to buy Westerbeke $$$ parts.

Be flexible & buy the most boat you can afford, (keep some repair money in reserve) because the cheaper the boat the more repairs & maintenance you will be paying for.

iamlucky13
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Re: Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by iamlucky13 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:55 pm

I'm not a sailor, but I enjoyed spending time with my grandpa, who was, so pardon the possibly half-educated question. Shouldn't you first narrow down whether your want a fixed deep keel for better stability, especially since you want to operate in semi-open water, or a retractable centerboard/daggerboard for easier trailering and the ability to operate in shallower water?

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4nwestsaylng
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Re: Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by 4nwestsaylng » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:11 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:I'm not a sailor, but I enjoyed spending time with my grandpa, who was, so pardon the possibly half-educated question. Shouldn't you first narrow down whether your want a fixed deep keel for better stability, especially since you want to operate in semi-open water, or a retractable centerboard/daggerboard for easier trailering and the ability to operate in shallower water?

Well you are correct on that. I currently lake sail with a 15 foot 505 I restored, so the issue is trailering with a swing keel boat to be able to go out on the salt water also. It probably does come down to committing to either salt water or not for the next boat, as I will keep the 505. 505 is a fast racer where you will get wet. The larger boat is for more room/sailing.

I have read that the Cal 27 was one of the best designed boats for its size. For lake and salt water sailing, probably would have to sail a 24 foot max, which I agree would be cramped for sailing in the islands offshore.I have noticed on the craigslist photos, that the smaller cabin boats tend to have spartan cabins which are basically to get out of the rain and store sails forward. I see ads for Hunters and Ericksons up in Vancouver,Canada-both brands seem popular there.

It does appear that the better values for any given boat brand are those in the higher price range where the owner lists all the things he has replaced in the past few years, ie they have put a lot more than the market value in upgrades, and have to sell for other reasons, often health or they have bought a cabn, etc.

The boats that say none of that, or say "needs some TLC on the teak and decking", you can be sure there are thousands of dollars of upgrades/replacements needed.

gkaplan
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Re: Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by gkaplan » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:33 pm

Taylor might check in here.
Gordon

FCM
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Re: Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by FCM » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:42 am

I owned and sailed on the Chesapeake Bay a Cal 25II (the 2nd generation Cal 25 with the trunk cabin) for about 20 years. It was a wonderful boat, and I never had any serious problems with it. It was built in 1979, and I bought it used in 1983. I would, however, suggest that if you are going to keep your potential boat in the water during the season as opposed to sailing a boat kept on a trailer, then make sure you have an epoxy barrier coat on the bottom to eliminate the potential problem of gelcoat blisters. I would also consider purchasing a boat with a solid laminate hull as opposed to a "sandwich" (balsa-cored) constructed hull. My concern would be that with a sandwich-constructed hull, any puncture of the outer gelcoat would allow water to seep into the balsa core, which could cause hull delamination - a real mess!

Point
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Re: Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by Point » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:49 am

We've enjoyed our Catalina 28MKII. Low maintenance and great sailing out to the Channel Islands in Santa Barbara.

Have whatever you're considering inspected by a competent marine inspector. And have the rigging etc looked at closely by a rigging guy. There's always something to do when you buy one.

Calsaver
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Re: Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by Calsaver » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:41 am

4nwestsaylng wrote:Really this question is not about how to shop for a boat (condition, etc) but any experiences with the build quality or design of some of the well known makes: Catalina, Cal, J class, Hunter, Erickson, San Juan, and also thoughts about these fiberglas boats vs some of the classic wooden sailboats such as the Thunderbird. Primarily will use for sailing a large lake ( 15 miles long) and sometimes the San Juan/Gulf Islands.

I know, "a boat is a hole you pour money into" That, I don't want to do, I would rather pay more for one in top shape, and then enjoy sailing and basic maintenance. I have restored 15 foot sailboats, from hole patching to endless sanding to paint layers and rigging, and it is worth paying for that work to have been already done by some perfectionist owner.
All of the makes you have mentioned are quality builders. I have heard some anecdotal stories of questionable quality on Hunters, but also through hear that they have cleaned up their act in recent years. I have no data to back either of those statements up, just dockside talk.

Thunderbirds are awesome, but not much room and all of the baggage that wood entails. There are a few glass ones out there, and they're cheap. A San Juan 21 is very cheap and roomier than some longer vessels. Not much to look at, but a lot of boat for the money. Ditto for San Juan 24. Catalina would be better for the San Juan's than a lake, very roomy and big for the length. J class would be more sporty. Erickson is a good all rounder and a few of them (though maybe the longer ones?) have beautiful lines and sail very well.

I would add Pearson in there. Pearson Ariel is a beautiful smaller (24?) sailor, and the Triton and Renegade models sail REALLY well and are worthy of small vessel ocean crossings. Also the Albin Vega, 26 I think, is another very good sailor. You may have an easier time deciding if you think about what is more important to you, i.e. gunk holing/camp aboard, performance, room, or day sailing.

As always if looking for a inexpensive fiberglass boat beware of gel coat/blistering issues, but really they are totally repairable. But as you say, even better if someone else has repaired them for you.

Enjoy!

btenny
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Re: Best value used sailboat 22-27 feet

Post by btenny » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:46 pm

I live in Tahoe part time and have several friends who are sailors. They break into two camps, big boats with fixed keels and small boats with swing keels. All the swing keel people have old Catalina 22s. The love them and sail them all over. They all run small outboards for power. The boats are almost bullet proof. They are easy to winterize and store as they just take the sails and engines off and put them in the garage. These guys do mostly two people boating. They regularly beach their boats for hours and days while they camp and play on the beach. They like the swing keels for getting over low water places easily. They love the light weight and low cost of small Catalina boats. They like the right sized cabin for sleeping two for a few nights and holding a ton of stuff for camping. These small boat people sail about 50% of the time and just motor the other times. They just like getting out on the water and are not too into "pure sailing".

The big boat guys have various fiberglass boats from 26-33 feet. These guys are more into pure sailing and racing and mostly do 4-6 people boating. They go out regularly for racing and on windy days to sail. They are not into camping or going to the beach as much. They stay on the boat and anchor 30 yards off shore due to water depth. They drag dinghies or kayaks many times for shore excursions. They carry a ton of stuff on their boats and provision for 4-6 people.

I also know some wooden boat people. Those guy do not play on their boats much, they mostly work on them and have shows to look at the boats. They do sail/motor them some but mostly it is only a few days a year. They spend weeks varnishing them and polishing them before each show and a single day of fun. So then they are pretty to look at. Oh and these wooden boats cost a fortune to maintain and buy and sell. So all the wooden boat people also have other boats that are fiber glass.

Hope this helps. Good Luck.

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