Lifetime Tire Alignment

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jpa
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Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by jpa »

I was told by the honda dealership during a routine oil change that I need my tires aligned. I just got new tires from Sam's so i figure it's a good time to do so, even if they weren't out of spec by a ton. Firestone has a lifetime tire alignment option---anyone have opinions on Firestone's program? I tend to prefer to either do car maintenance myself or by the dealer, but the price at Firestone is less than the cost of having it done twice by a dealer--so i'm definitely considering it.

Thanks guys
N10sive
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by N10sive »

I bought the firestone lifetime alignment for my lifted truck, which places like that aren't known to do well with. They exceeded my expectations.

It is well worth it if you plan to keep the car a long time. You could go in on Friday and come back the following Monday if your alignment changed because say you hit a curb. Obviously YMMV based on the shop, but what I liked is that there are many shops in various states. I could have used some local chains but with my possibility of moving states I chose firestone.
chinto
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by chinto »

Interesting, I have looked for these periodically and have not been able to find any...I had one once back in 1983 and used it frequently. Since I buy a car and hold it, I find value in the proposition.
selftalk
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by selftalk »

I have it at Pep Boys. It`s a good deal if you`re keeping your car. I think it cost $79.95 which is the cost of doing it once. How can you go wrong with this. It`s not tire alignment but rather wheel alignment.
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bottlecap
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by bottlecap »

I think they were kidding you. Tires don't need to be aligned.

It's been 7.5 years since my vehicle had an alignment, and that was only due to an accident.

I'll have it checked when I get new tires, but that's it.

I don't think I'd do lifetime alignment.

JT
neilpilot
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by neilpilot »

My experience is that Firestone does tires and alignments fine, but they continuously try to sell you on sometimes unnecessary maintenance and repairs. I usually DIY, so that typically doesn't work on me.

Unfortunately last year Firestone reported that my brake pads were wearing unevenly, with one side worn to limits. Based on their report (they even supplied measurements) I ordered new pads and started on the job myself. When I removed the wheels, I discovered that they had LIED and all pads were evenly worn and had about 50% life remaining. So where did those measurements come from??

Bottom line, I no longer trust Firestone and I'm not sure I'd even have them do an alignment.
student
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by student »

neilpilot wrote:My experience is that Firestone does tires and alignments fine, but they continuously try to sell you on sometimes unnecessary maintenance and repairs. I usually DIY, so that typically doesn't work on me.

Unfortunately last year Firestone reported that my brake pads were wearing unevenly, with one side worn to limits. Based on their report (they even supplied measurements) I ordered new pads and started on the job myself. When I removed the wheels, I discovered that they had LIED and all pads were evenly worn and had about 50% life remaining. So where did those measurements come from??

Bottom line, I no longer trust Firestone and I'm not sure I'd even have them do an alignment.
Interesting. Does you state require auto shop give you the old parts after they put in the new ones? Some states require this.
runner3081
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by runner3081 »

Many modern cars only need alignment after tie rod, control arms or other front end work. They tend not to work themselves out of alignment on their own.

Also, if the need alignment, it is more likely from worn down or faulty front end parts. Get those fixed.
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midareff
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by midareff »

The last alignment I had was in 2000 and was a special alignment for a car being auto-crossed. If your tires are wearing evenly across the face (as measured with a gauge) within one or two 32nds and without cupping you don't need an alignment. If you are doing front end work such as replacing tie rods, bushings and such you probably do need an alignment.
Ron
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by Ron »

selftalk wrote:<snip...>It`s not tire alignment but rather wheel alignment.
True; if it was a tire alignment, they would ensure that all four tires turn in the same direction :mrgreen: (Sorry, I couldn't help myself...)

- Ron
wrongfunds
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by wrongfunds »

and once you replace the tires, the "lifetime" will be over :-)

But save your money. Unless tires are wearing funny, don't bother.
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mhc
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by mhc »

My 13 year old Honda CR-V has never had a tire alignment and probably never will.
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protagonist
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by protagonist »

I've never had an alignment. My tires are at least 8 years old and still passing inspection. My tires seem to be wearing fairly evenly- I get them rotated about once a year.

Does "lifetime" mean the life of the tires or the life of the car?

I suppose if you intend to keep your car for a really long time, you drive a lot, and you live somewhere with severe road hazards it might be worth it. But probably not. I've never felt the need.
lightheir
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by lightheir »

All of these 'lifetime free services' deals are terrible unless you have gobs of extra time on your hands (retired?)

Our Firestone and Goodyear offers free stuff even for new customers, like tire rotation, aligment, fluid checks, etc.

The two times I went in for the free tire rotation, I was told it would add 3 hours of service time due to the wait. And I was buying two new tires from them each time so this was absolutely ludicrous. They were all too happy to see that I declined. Happened to me the 2nd time around 2 years later afer I hit a curb and flatted my front tire (needing to replace the front set). Again, 3+ hr or dropoff wait, whereas if I just had them changed, 20 minute appointment.

Same thing for the free fluid checks, etc. You get pushed to the absolute, lowest back priority, and it usually turns what should be a 20-30 minute appointment into a drop-your-car-off all day affair.

I avoid these like the plague now. I view them as pretty much a scam - sure we'll do free service for you but you'll have to waste $100+ of your personal time to get it. And we have great customer service. Right.
aristotelian
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by aristotelian »

We use Firestone for our oil changes and routine stuff. I did get the lifetime alignment deal on our SUV. Tried to get it on our other car but I believe they no longer offer it. It is good to get the alignment done whenever they do suspension work (axles, tie rods, shocks etc) and often when they change the tires (some places will void the tire warranty if you don't have it done). I believe the lifetime deal pays for itself after about 3 times and we have definitely had enough suspension work to justify it.

BTW I believe it is wheels, not tires, that get the alignment.
barnaclebob
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by barnaclebob »

jpa wrote:I was told by the honda dealership during a routine oil change that I need my tires aligned. I just got new tires from Sam's so i figure it's a good time to do so, even if they weren't out of spec by a ton. Firestone has a lifetime tire alignment option---anyone have opinions on Firestone's program? I tend to prefer to either do car maintenance myself or by the dealer, but the price at Firestone is less than the cost of having it done twice by a dealer--so i'm definitely considering it.

Thanks guys
Did you have the new tires when you were told to get an alignment? Tire wear inspection is the only thing that could indicate an alignment problem during an oil change.
armeliusc
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by armeliusc »

I used to have Firestone's lifetime alignment, but now I know better. Not anymore. First, they would always try to sell you stuff. My car was completely fine and they would have "urgent list" and "suggested list" of things to do worth hundreds of dollars. I never fell for it (I have an independent mechanics I completely trust), but it's just annoying. Second, they often don't do it right, not according to the suggested alignments for my specific cars (Honda Civic 04) by the manufacturer. How did I know? My mechanics show the numbers to me (he specialized in Honda cars only). Also more than once they fill the tires with wrong pressure, then forgot to put back my tire splash, etc, etc. So many little aggravations.

So I talked to my mechanic and he basically says you don't really need alignment unless you work on suspension or steering system or got into bad accidents or things like that, or there's a real evidence that you need it such as tires starting to wear unevenly. It's not like you hit a curb and you need alignment, that's nonsense. So rather than wasting my time going back and forth to Firestone for something I may not really need anyway, I just have it done at my mechanics. Sure, their one time cost is probably as much as the "lifetime alignment", but they do it once and they do it right when I need it.
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HueyLD
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by HueyLD »

A local chain used to push for lifetime alignment, lifetime oil change, etc.

However, the owner sold the business to a national chain and all those supposedly lifetime services vanished because the new owner claimed to have no such records whatsoever.

So, my question about any kind of lifetime warranty/service contract is: over whose lifetime?
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by FrugalInvestor »

bottlecap wrote:I think they were kidding you. Tires don't need to be aligned.
It's been 7.5 years since my vehicle had an alignment, and that was only due to an accident.
I'll have it checked when I get new tires, but that's it.
I don't think I'd do lifetime alignment.
JT
I suppose it depends on the roads you drive on and type of driving you do. I'm in the same camp as bottlecap because most of my cars never need an alignment. I keep most of them for about 7 years and 100,000+ miles and drive on good roads. When my tires need replacement, as long as they've worn evenly and lasted a substantial number of miles (I typically get around 70,000), then I put on new ones without doing an alignment.
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Tuche
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by Tuche »

Lifetime in this context means for as long as you own the car. I've got 250k+ miles on my car. I bought it new and got the lifetime alignment from Firestone around 40k miles when I got my first set or replacement tires (fronts, because I didn't rotate often enough). Every 5-7 thousand miles I get my tires rotated and my alignment set. They adjust camber, castor, and when possible tow. You can request a printout of the before and after measurements. I drove delivery through college, which often involved parking against the curb out of expediency. Those little curb taps and pothole encounters add up, it's nice to get your car rolling as smooth as new every time you get your tires rotated.

Over those 250k+ miles I've replaced all four corners of my suspension once and my steering components twice (those ball joints wear out every 100k miles or so). The lifetime alignment paid off there as well. Mechanical repairs I can do myself, alignment I can't.

It doesn't hurt that I work walking distance from my local Firestone. I pick a day to drop off my car, walk to work, and it's ready when I leave the office in the afternoon.

Bottom line. If you plan to hang on to your car for a long time, it's absolutely worth it to get the lifetime alignment. They run specials on it periodically. I shelled out something just north of $100 6 or so years ago and I've used it 30ish times for various reasons. My car is more enjoyable and easier to drive on a regular basis because I keep it tracking straight and true.
wander
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by wander »

FrugalInvestor wrote:
bottlecap wrote:I think they were kidding you. Tires don't need to be aligned.
It's been 7.5 years since my vehicle had an alignment, and that was only due to an accident.
I'll have it checked when I get new tires, but that's it.
I don't think I'd do lifetime alignment.
JT
I suppose it depends on the roads you drive on and type of driving you do. I'm in the same camp as bottlecap because most of my cars never need an alignment. I keep most of them for about 7 years and 100,000+ miles and drive on good roads. When my tires need replacement, as long as they've worn evenly and lasted a substantial number of miles (I typically get around 70,000), then I put on new ones without doing an alignment.
There is no tire alignment. What firestone is offering is wheel alignment. Shops do offer lifetime tires rebalance which last until you replace them with new ones. Wheel alignment stays with the life of the car (shops use VIN to track). I do have lifetime wheel alignment on my car and it paid off the second time I brought the car in for wheel alignment. It 's worth every penny.
littlebird
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by littlebird »

neilpilot wrote:My experience is that Firestone does tires and alignments fine, but they continuously try to sell you on sometimes unnecessary maintenance and repairs. I usually DIY, so that typically doesn't work on me.
This must vary by franchisee. I've been using Firestone for 25 years and have not had this at all. My Sienna was nearly 14 years old before they finally "found" something other than tires needing replacement or repair (I replace the battery every 24 months of my own volition, due to extreme heat). :happy
indexonlyplease
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by indexonlyplease »

With the cars we have had in the family we never had to have the tires reballanced or front end alignment. We just always bought good name brand tires and kept the air pressure correct. The tires last long. U just replace my wifes tires on her suv and she had over 40,0000 miles on the tires. Rotation once a yr.
AF_Engineer
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by AF_Engineer »

We have 3 cars that have the Firestone alignment ('07, '10, '14), we just got that '14 set up a month ago, so Firestone is still offering at least in some places. They're often driven over rough roads, and 2 of them by teenagers, so it's worth it to us. I have never heard the claim that newer cars don't need alignments except after major work...not sure I'd trust that completely, if you hit a curb hard enough you can definitely knock things out of whack a bit. I've noticed uneven tire wear when alignment not done regularly, and that matters since we buy better quality tires. I do agree that Firestone will try and get you to pay for extra work....never have them replace your cabin air filter or air filter, or your batter, you can do that easily on your own for a fraction of the cost.
43andcounting
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by 43andcounting »

Are you talking about balancing rather than alignment?
I am confused. Alignment is needed only rarely, hopefully never. Balancing+rotation is needed every 6 month or so. May be I am confusing it.
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tooluser
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by tooluser »

wander wrote: There is no tire alignment. What firestone is offering is wheel alignment. Shops do offer lifetime tires rebalance which last until you replace them with new ones. Wheel alignment stays with the life of the car (shops use VIN to track). I do have lifetime wheel alignment on my car and it paid off the second time I brought the car in for wheel alignment. It 's worth every penny.
Yes, wheels not tires!

My own experience with alignment has been different. I have owned three cars that needed alignment all the time, yet no shop could align them, yet all the shops considered themselves to have done a great job. For each car, it might drive okay for a day, but then it would always be wandering off to one side. A total waste of time and money to have them aligned at all. Minimal effect on tire wear, yet constantly fighting the steering wheel.

My last car never needed an alignment in 9 years. Maybe I am a more careful driver now. Maybe quality and durability of the cars has improved. Maybe I was just lucky.

Alignment is the "HVAC" of the automobile world. Lots of highly skilled, expensive technicians in both areas who don't do doodly squat. And don't get me started on suspension work (strut replacement is generally a ripoff)!

Rant off. :mrgreen: My current auto and home HVAC are fine. <<shakes fist>> :confused
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N10sive
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by N10sive »

It would be interesting to have a poll of where the people saying you never need an alignment unless suspension or steering work is done, live. Based on road conditions is what I wonder.

I used to live in a pretty old condensed neighborhood, although it was affluent the roads where always lagging in being fixed. Multiple potholes etc. yes you can miss the potholes but sometimes you aren't paying attention and hit one. Or say a curb. Enough of these hits, will alter your alignment. It may not wear the tires differently, but it can alter your steering. Like having a push/pull of your car.

A lifetime alignment seems like the most boglehead move. If you go twice it pays for itself and your most likely to keep the car a long time. As others have stated, it will vary by the shop. The firestone I went to never tried to sell me anything, maybe because they knew I did most of the work on my vehicle. And I always made an appt which I never waited longer than 1 hour. But again YMMV.
wrongfunds
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by wrongfunds »

Once again if you understand a typical car suspension, you will realize that unless you bent a mechanical part and had to replace it, there is nothing to adjust. When a suspension part has developed too much play, it needs to be replaced. If the part to be replaced has adjustment, then you need to re-align the vehicle. There are some components which have elliptical hole. A good shop will mark the previous position and remove and put back exactly as it was before. I understand needing alignment if that part was changed instead of being reused.

Otherwise the car does NOT go out of its alignment on its own without something being bend or broken. And then you need to replace those parts and then do the alignment.

Bottom line:- There is no 5K alignment service. But please support auto service industry as much as you can. They are always hurting more business.
jharkin
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by jharkin »

Agree with the consensus - If you just got your alignment checked and adjusted when the new tires where put on there should be NO need to do it again.

I usually get my alignment checked only when I put new tires on (i.e. every 40-60k miles or so).. Sometimes its needed minor adjustment, sometimes it doesn't need anything. As others have said alignment only goes out if parts wear out, or for example you hit a pothole bad enough to knock something out of adjustment. As was mentioned certain suspension designs have limited adjustment and little chance to get unaligned.

If you did hit a bad hole and you think it needs to be checked again there are symptoms you can watch for:

- Look at the tires for unusual wear patterns (this can also be a sign of over/under inflation - not just misalignment)
- does the steering properly self center?
- Does the car track straight?
etc
(beware that you have to test this on FLAT pavement - the crown of the road can throw off the feel)
cu_
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by cu_ »

I had it on my previous vehicle (SUV) and it paid for itself. It is honored in any location so, it worked even when we moved.
I want to get them for our current cars if they are still available next time I take it to firestone. Does anyone know how much they are running for (ballpark)?
zbxb006
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by zbxb006 »

I wouldn't go anywhere near a Firestone shop. Last time we had a car there for a small tire problem, they told my wife it needed four new struts, several thousand dollars. Claimed they were leaking, but didn't think ahead enough to spray some oil on the struts, so when she asked to see them (she has been around the block once or twice), they changed their story. They must be really dim as the car was only six months old, with 3k miles on it, and only had struts in the front, so couldn't possibly need four.
wrongfunds
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by wrongfunds »

zbxb006 wrote:I wouldn't go anywhere near a Firestone shop. Last time we had a car there for a small tire problem, they told my wife it needed four new struts, several thousand dollars. Claimed they were leaking, but didn't think ahead enough to spray some oil on the struts, so when she asked to see them (she has been around the block once or twice), they changed their story. They must be really dim as the car was only six months old, with 3k miles on it, and only had struts in the front, so couldn't possibly need four.
They did not go to good school where they are taught the course on how to do this the "correct" way.
tech_arch
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by tech_arch »

My experience has been the opposite of the plurality here. We had an '07 Vue for almost 10 years and had a lifetime alignment for it through Tires Plus (owned by Firestone nowadays.) Every other oil change I had them rotate and rebalance the wheels and check the alignment. Their before and after report usually showed it being a little out of alignment beforehand. We also used it after changing the front suspension at 100k miles and when we replaced the tires.

I'd buy it again.
wrongfunds
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by wrongfunds »

Would you trust me if I tell you that a car pulled in on the rack and got the printout and then backed out without doing any work on it and then immediately put back on the rack and got another printout, those would NOT be identical? There is inherent measurement error in anything that we measure. Repeat-ability of data is non-trivial issue in real life.
tech_arch
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by tech_arch »

wrongfunds wrote:Would you trust me if I tell you that a car pulled in on the rack and got the printout and then backed out without doing any work on it and then immediately put back on the rack and got another printout, those would NOT be identical? There is inherent measurement error in anything that we measure. Repeat-ability of data is non-trivial issue in real life.
I've taken enough science labs to appreciate that.
wrongfunds
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by wrongfunds »

Their before and after report usually showed it being a little out of alignment beforehand.
It would even if all they did was to reverse the car back down and put it back again on the rack.
Swansea
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by Swansea »

neilpilot wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:36 am My experience is that Firestone does tires and alignments fine, but they continuously try to sell you on sometimes unnecessary maintenance and repairs. I usually DIY, so that typically doesn't work on me.

Unfortunately last year Firestone reported that my brake pads were wearing unevenly, with one side worn to limits. Based on their report (they even supplied measurements) I ordered new pads and started on the job myself. When I removed the wheels, I discovered that they had LIED and all pads were evenly worn and had about 50% life remaining. So where did those measurements come from??

Bottom line, I no longer trust Firestone and I'm not sure I'd even have them do an alignment.
I had a government car and the brakes were bad. The Agency had a contract with Firestone, so I brought the car there. They said that they replaced the brake shoes. Driving into downtown Philadelphia the next day, brakes failed...pads had not been replaced.
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beernutz
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by beernutz »

I bought a lifetime alignment from Sears auto service for the first car I bought myself, a 1984 Honda Prelude. I probably got my money's worth but after a while Sears made it so difficult to schedule an appointment that it was a big PITA to get an alignment. When I sold that car they lost me as a customer forever.

I used the local Firestone a few times because it was convenient but like others have said, on every visit they tried to add on some bs additional, and imo, unnecessary service. I can't complain about their work quality but they were always trying to upsell me some or another service I didn't need. After a couple of those service visits and subsequent upsell attempts I never went back to them and that was at least 5 years ago.

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falconsfan
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by falconsfan »

I have bought lifetime alignments from Firestone / Tire Plus on a few cars. You can knock your alignment out hitting a curb hard enough. The lifetime covers as long as you own the car iir, not the tires lifetime. Best to get it when you first acquire the car. Also those complaining about how long it takes, make an appointment for first thing in the morning. Most of the large chains offer online appointments. Never had an issue with Firestone or Tires Plus. And every place will offer other services, that's their job. You are free to decline.
Afty
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by Afty »

A timely thread as I was riding in my wife’s car recently and noticed some unusual tire roar. I checked the tires and noticed uneven wear. Had her take it in for an alignment, and it was pretty far out of whack. This was the first alignment we’ve done in about 60k miles.

I don’t know about lifetime alignment. I like to be able to choose the shop that works on my car. In this case I took it to a shop that only does alignment and has good ratings on Yelp.
3feetpete
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by 3feetpete »

I think it's a way to get you back in the door so they can tell you you need knew brakes, carburetor cleaning etc etc.
IMO
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Re: Lifetime Tire Alignment

Post by IMO »

N10sive wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:56 pm It would be interesting to have a poll of where the people saying you never need an alignment unless suspension or steering work is done, live. Based on road conditions is what I wonder.

I used to live in a pretty old condensed neighborhood, although it was affluent the roads where always lagging in being fixed. Multiple potholes etc. yes you can miss the potholes but sometimes you aren't paying attention and hit one. Or say a curb. Enough of these hits, will alter your alignment. It may not wear the tires differently, but it can alter your steering. Like having a push/pull of your car.

A lifetime alignment seems like the most boglehead move. If you go twice it pays for itself and your most likely to keep the car a long time. As others have stated, it will vary by the shop. The firestone I went to never tried to sell me anything, maybe because they knew I did most of the work on my vehicle. And I always made an appt which I never waited longer than 1 hour. But again YMMV.
One of the things I like about the forum is to see different points of view on topics. However, I'm always shocked by the response that "since it's never happened to me, or since I've never done it" that the item of question is not needed. In this case, it's the thought: "Does a vehicle ever legitimately need an alignment in it's useful lifetime?" When what I would think are intelligent people responding, that an alignment is completely unnecessary for ALL the millions of drivers, I can only shake my head :confused

So on one hand I have an vehicle over 10 yrs old with 150,000 miles that's never needed one, and another that at about 20 years old and under 100,000 miles that needed more than an alignment, but actually the lower bar joints replaced recently (and an alignment as part of the repair). But there is more than my 2 cars in the 1st World so even my personal 2 car stats are just personal examples and hardly good statistics.

Then there is the "because of modern technology" alignments are no longer needed. Did look that up, and seems that of all the alignment factors, modern cars only require the "TOE" to be adjusted. However, this hardly would mean a modern call does not potentially need an alignment for a certain number of cars driven under certain road conditions, curb impacts, etc. https://www.liveabout.com/wheel-alignme ... ed-4686688

I would probably argue further that modern AWD vehicles should be checked more often for alignment since from what I understand, there are significant issues with replacing only1 or 2 tires on a modern AWD vehicle. So much so that if someone had an excessively worn tire from misalignment on a modern car, one would have to take a perfectly new tire and have perfectly good rubber shaved off so that the new tire would not cause transmission problems to the AWD. Another example of modern technology (AWD) not solving everything it is supposed to solve.

Is the "lifetime" service product worth while? That can be debatable. Some shops will use it as a loss leader, and other shops are more honest. Finding the honest shop is the hard part.
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