My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

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My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by CULater »

Looking at a new 2017 Honda CRV Touring and have done a little price shopping. Was curious about TrueCar and Costco pricing on the vehicle. Here's what I found out from a couple dealers. The first dealer didn't participate in the Costco program, so I asked about TrueCar pricing and looked up the TrueCar price on my cellphone while sitting there. The salesman was eager to deal for the TrueCar price, which was $1900 off sticker in my zip code. Had no problem getting them to throw in a couple of accessories worth another $339 for a total discount of $2239.

So then I went through the Costco car buying process online and was contacted by the participating dealer in my area on the phone. Of course, they wanted to get me in there but I balked so they took my Costco membership number and then quoted me a Costco discount price, which was about $1600 off sticker. So, right off the bat without doing anything but look up the TrueCar price I easily got $300 more than the Costco price, plus I easily got another $339 in accessories. Based on this, I doubt I'd even mess with Costco in the future and I wouldn't bother to mess with TrueCar either except to look up the TrueCar price and negotiate off of that.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Kenkat »

Last new car I bought I got for $1400 below the TrueCar quoted price.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by sport »

I expect that the Costco discount will vary over time. It will also be different for different brands and even different models of a given brand. So, what you discovered was true for your specific circumstances. That does not mean it will be generally true.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by new2bogle »

When I bought a new car a couple of years ago, I was in the "Exceptional Price" category when I looked up my purchase price on TrueCar. That was done by just emailing all dealers within a 3 hour drive radius and picking the lowest.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by stoptothink »

Kenkat wrote:Last new car I bought I got for $1400 below the TrueCar quoted price.
We bought in February and got over $3k off TrueCar price...on a $14k (OTD) car.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Blink235 »

TrueCar is a sham. It will get you a fair but not good/great price. There's a reason that dealers are really eager to deal at the TrueCar price.

The economics are really simple: True Car gets a cut of every deal made using their service. How do you think that you're going to get a good price if there are two parties looking to profit (dealer and True Car) instead of one (dealer). True Car will get paid, and you will be the one paying them.

I just bought a new car, so I have just gone through this ordeal. Once you are locked into a dealer's system as having used True Car, they are entitled to a cut of your deal, so they more than likely will not budge from the price you were quoted.

The only way to get the best deal is with old fashioned elbow grease. That means looking up inventories for every dealership you are willing to drive to and negotating via phone and in-person until you are given the lowest price possible.

One thing I will say about buying a new car: it's often not the best idea to try to get the best price possible, rather you should aim to just get a price that you are happy with.

Good luck.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by donaldfair71 »

CULater wrote:Looking at a new 2017 Honda CRV Touring and have done a little price shopping. Was curious about TrueCar and Costco pricing on the vehicle. Here's what I found out from a couple dealers. The first dealer didn't participate in the Costco program, so I asked about TrueCar pricing and looked up the TrueCar price on my cellphone while sitting there. The salesman was eager to deal for the TrueCar price, which was $1900 off sticker in my zip code. Had no problem getting them to throw in a couple of accessories worth another $339 for a total discount of $2239.

So then I went through the Costco car buying process online and was contacted by the participating dealer in my area on the phone. Of course, they wanted to get me in there but I balked so they took my Costco membership number and then quoted me a Costco discount price, which was about $1600 off sticker. So, right off the bat without doing anything but look up the TrueCar price I easily got $300 more than the Costco price, plus I easily got another $339 in accessories. Based on this, I doubt I'd even mess with Costco in the future and I wouldn't bother to mess with TrueCar either except to look up the TrueCar price and negotiate off of that.
Did you also look up the internet price for the automobiles you priced out? I have bought two new cars in the past 10 years, and the internet price was already marked down at least 8-10% from the sticker price.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by CULater »

2017 CRV is new model and has been in demand. Has been hard to get much of a discount until recently. Don't know what has changed except maybe now dealers have more stock to move.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Helo80 »

Blink235 wrote:TrueCar is a sham. It will get you a fair but not good/great price. There's a reason that dealers are really eager to deal at the TrueCar price.

I agree.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by denovo »

I've never had a deal that was not significantly better than the TrueCar pricing. It's a joke.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Helo80 »

CULater wrote:2017 CRV is new model and has been in demand. Has been hard to get much of a discount until recently. Don't know what has changed except maybe now dealers have more stock to move.

SUV segment is doing very well so difficult, but not impossible.

Plus, it can be entirely market dependent. Some markets just have more of a model than others. For example, would you buy an F-150 (Ford's bread and butter vehicle for like... the last 30 years) in New York or New Jersey or say Truck Country (Texas)?
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Helo80 »

denovo wrote:I've never had a deal that was not significantly better than the TrueCar pricing. It's a joke.

Correct. TrueCar is good at gauging roughly what a vehicle is being sold for in a market, but i've seen it be way off as well.

Plus, USAA is going to want their piece of the action on TrueCar pricing, and generally, the fewer middle-men in a transaction, the better, right? Who here is calling their EJ advisor to put money into their index funds? Bueller? Bueller?
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by tech_arch »

CULater wrote:Looking at a new 2017 Honda CRV Touring and have done a little price shopping. Was curious about TrueCar and Costco pricing on the vehicle. Here's what I found out from a couple dealers. The first dealer didn't participate in the Costco program, so I asked about TrueCar pricing and looked up the TrueCar price on my cellphone while sitting there. The salesman was eager to deal for the TrueCar price, which was $1900 off sticker in my zip code. Had no problem getting them to throw in a couple of accessories worth another $339 for a total discount of $2239.

So then I went through the Costco car buying process online and was contacted by the participating dealer in my area on the phone. Of course, they wanted to get me in there but I balked so they took my Costco membership number and then quoted me a Costco discount price, which was about $1600 off sticker. So, right off the bat without doing anything but look up the TrueCar price I easily got $300 more than the Costco price, plus I easily got another $339 in accessories. Based on this, I doubt I'd even mess with Costco in the future and I wouldn't bother to mess with TrueCar either except to look up the TrueCar price and negotiate off of that.
We had the opposite experience last summer shopping for our minivan. Our quotes through Costco were cheaper than TrueCar and the dealers competed with each other, yielding an even better price. After doing some research online it looked like we were getting a really good deal with minimal work and took it.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by bsteiner »

I bought a Camry three years ago using Pentagon Federal's buying service, which I think was also a private label version of TrueCar. I think I did well. In any event, I did better than in the past when I tried to negotiate with the dealer.

Pentagon Federal offered me 0% financing for 3 years for cars bought through their service, which allowed me to take the rebate in place of the 0% financing from Toyota.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

When I ordered my Wrangler, I used TrueCar and found that getting the Doc Fee up front was the only thing useful that they offered. I got lots of lower offers, took the lowest of all and went to my preferred dealer (not included before this) and left a voicemail saying I'd come in with a deposit if they could meet a price (lowest I had received from anyone minus $200) and they called back and said yes. This ended up being about $1500 lower than TrueCar's lowest price.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by ClevrChico »

It's been a few yeas, but TrueCar was not a great deal. It also resulted in many high pressure phone calls from a participating dealer.

My best deal was found simply emailing dealers. It took a few hours of time, but it was worth it.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by barreg »

ClevrChico wrote:It's been a few yeas, but TrueCar was not a great deal. It also resulted in many high pressure phone calls from a participating dealer.

My best deal was found simply emailing dealers. It took a few hours of time, but it was worth it.
I'll second this. TrueCar was a good deal when it first came out. Back in 2010, I got a great price for a new Camy via TrueCar. However, it now has just "fair" prices. I just bought a 2017 Camry in December by doing online research to get a good understanding of current sales prices and beat the TrueCar price by over $1,500 by just emailing local dealers for prices.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Tamales »

CULater wrote:Based on this, I doubt I'd even mess with Costco in the future...
A sample of one isn't usually a good way to make decisions.

The prices (for the same car in the same zip code) vary over time. That's true of truecar prices too. In fact a given car configuration on a given date can have a huge variation across zip codes nationwide.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by JPH »

CULater wrote:2017 CRV is new model and has been in demand. Has been hard to get much of a discount until recently. Don't know what has changed except maybe now dealers have more stock to move.
I found this as well. They are in high demand. I planned to use the internet shopping technique, but almost didn't bother because I found only a few Honda CR-V EX available in my geographic region, and I was reading on the internet that a lot of dealers were demanding above MSRP. But I sent the email to all dealers within a 150 mile radius (about 12) and got back a wide range of OTD offers. I drove the 150 miles to the furthest dealer but got what I think was a pretty good price on a car that is a hot seller. I paid $26500 OTD in South Texas. I accepted their offer without a trade-in. After I paid for the car, I asked if they would be interested in buying my old car. They offered me more than I would have asked for it, and even re-wrote the sale to show my car as a trade-in, which saved me some money on sales tax.

Edit to add: I tried Costco too. There were Costco approved dealers in my region, but none would participate in the program for a CR-V.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by CULater »

JPH wrote:
CULater wrote:2017 CRV is new model and has been in demand. Has been hard to get much of a discount until recently. Don't know what has changed except maybe now dealers have more stock to move.
I found this as well. They are in high demand. I planned to use the internet shopping technique, but almost didn't bother because I found only a few Honda CR-V EX available in my geographic region, and I was reading on the internet that a lot of dealers were demanding above MSRP. But I sent the email to all dealers within a 150 mile radius (about 12) and got back a wide range of OTD offers. I drove the 150 miles to the furthest dealer but got what I think was a pretty good price on a car that is a hot seller. I paid $26500 OTD in South Texas. I accepted their offer without a trade-in. After I paid for the car, I asked if they would be interested in buying my old car. They offered me more than I would have asked for it, and even re-wrote the sale to show my car as a trade-in, which saved me some money on sales tax.

Edit to add: I tried Costco too. There were Costco approved dealers in my region, but none would participate in the program for a CR-V.
So, how much of a discount off MSRP was the selling price?
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by CULater »

The CRV price seems to be regional. Checking Truecar, there's a much smaller discount in Phoenix than there is in either of the Midwest cities I've checked. This squares exactly with my experience. When I was recently in Phoenix, dealers weren't dealing at all, they wanted MSRP. But in Midwest the starting discount seemed to be much better. I am puzzled because Phoenix is a big town with large Honda dealerships. You would think prices would be better there -- but No.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by grabiner »

Blink235 wrote:I just bought a new car, so I have just gone through this ordeal. Once you are locked into a dealer's system as having used True Car, they are entitled to a cut of your deal, so they more than likely will not budge from the price you were quoted.
This wasn't the case for me in March. I contacted three TrueCar dealers and five others to buy a Toyota Prius, and I had subsequent negotiations with two of the TrueCar dealers, who had the best offers.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Helo80 »

ClevrChico wrote:It's been a few yeas, but TrueCar was not a great deal. It also resulted in many high pressure phone calls from a participating dealer.
My dad put a TrueCar quote in through USAA and there are dealers he will not even buy a 25 cent washer from. They kept calling and calling and calling. I learned from his mistake and put in a Google phone number when I solicited a TrueCar quote once.

So, if any of you value your cell phone number, don't give it to TrueCar/USAA/Costco.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Helo80 »

CULater wrote:The CRV price seems to be regional. Checking Truecar, there's a much smaller discount in Phoenix than there is in either of the Midwest cities I've checked. This squares exactly with my experience. When I was recently in Phoenix, dealers weren't dealing at all, they wanted MSRP. But in Midwest the starting discount seemed to be much better. I am puzzled because Phoenix is a big town with large Honda dealerships. You would think prices would be better there -- but No.

Car allotments by the makers get super weird. For example, I've been looking at Toyota 4Runners. Where I'm at, they don't go far from MSRP without a fight. Up in Mountain States Toyota's regional distro, oh good grief, 4x4's coming out the ***.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Kenkat »

grabiner wrote:
Blink235 wrote:I just bought a new car, so I have just gone through this ordeal. Once you are locked into a dealer's system as having used True Car, they are entitled to a cut of your deal, so they more than likely will not budge from the price you were quoted.
This wasn't the case for me in March. I contacted three TrueCar dealers and five others to buy a Toyota Prius, and I had subsequent negotiations with two of the TrueCar dealers, who had the best offers.
Did you pay the TrueCar price, or less? Sounds like you paid less...

I bought from one of the TrueCar dealers as well, but after a test drive when I said "I'll think about it and let you know", they quietly said they could beat the TrueCar price and would beat any other offer. I bounced around with four different dealers before I got to what felt like as low as it was going to go.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Helo80 »

I hope that you all are realizing that TrueCar/USAA/Costco is not a "best-fit" for all. I think once upon a time, TrueCar, et. al, were tad bit better in competition as dealers were undercutting each other to the point that they were losing money on transactions. It was almost a little bit "too good" to be true. I don't have the full story of what exactly went down between TrueCar and nationwide dealers, but TrueCar has reformed some of its practices and is less of an adversary as they were in the past to dealers. Consequently, I think dealers have adapted to the TrueCar model.

Bottom line: if you want a good or great deal, you still have to do your research beyond what TrueCar or Costco spit out. For some makes, models, trims, and zip codes, TrueCar may win every single time. For other vehicles, TrueCar may not be a great deal.

Keep in mind, USAA is a multi-billion dollar company. You can call it a non-profit or whatever you want, but as somebody who has been inside their Federal Savings Bank, data center, and walked the entire length of every floor of building A-H of their corporate HQ.... I stand-by the fact that it's the nicest office building I have ever been in (even beyond the oil companies). So, with TrueCar, yeah.... somebody is getting a cut and that service is not being run for free.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by JPH »

CULater wrote:
JPH wrote:
CULater wrote:2017 CRV is new model and has been in demand. Has been hard to get much of a discount until recently. Don't know what has changed except maybe now dealers have more stock to move.
I found this as well. They are in high demand. I planned to use the internet shopping technique, but almost didn't bother because I found only a few Honda CR-V EX available in my geographic region, and I was reading on the internet that a lot of dealers were demanding above MSRP. But I sent the email to all dealers within a 150 mile radius (about 12) and got back a wide range of OTD offers. I drove the 150 miles to the furthest dealer but got what I think was a pretty good price on a car that is a hot seller. I paid $26500 OTD in South Texas. I accepted their offer without a trade-in. After I paid for the car, I asked if they would be interested in buying my old car. They offered me more than I would have asked for it, and even re-wrote the sale to show my car as a trade-in, which saved me some money on sales tax.

Edit to add: I tried Costco too. There were Costco approved dealers in my region, but none would participate in the program for a CR-V.
So, how much of a discount off MSRP was the selling price?
According to KBB the MSRP is $27,735. I paid $1,235 less. There was about a $900 difference between the lowest bid in my city and the one I had to drive 150 miles for. It was the EX, not the EXL.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

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FYI, the TrueCar price online was $1897 off sticker, the Costco price was $1600 off sticker. I contacted another dealer online and he gave me $2500 off sticker as his first offer. I think it's good to know what TrueCar and Costco might do as a point of reference, but you can probably do better without too much sweat. I doubt that I'd ever do a deal for either the TrueCar or Costco price, especially the Costco price. The dealers are all onto this and happy to sell at these prices without haggling, which must mean they have a lot of room left. I'm figuring that the guy who shot me the $2500 off sticker online could probably go to $3000 off if I wanted to haggle.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Ervin »

Both Costco and the Truecar "Excellent" prices are a joke, in my limited experience. That applies to carbargains, too, by the way. Do your own homework. You should be able to get at least 10% off MSRP on a car, easily, and that's before the end of season sales.

I remember when Truecar was Zag and really served buyers with true data. Then they figured out they were not making enough money on the buyers' side, so they switched sides. Nowadays, they are in the dealers' pockets, and so is anybody who uses Truecar for pricing (and 99% of the car pricing sites); that's you, Consumer Reports! (I also remember when CR had their own independent car pricing service, and one could rely 100% on what was in that. Before they sold out, too. May they rest in pieces, because they are in free fall.)

If you want a better idea what you are up against, invest in a FightingChance report. It's in the vein of what CR used to offer.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by rgs92 »

I think the best thing to do is to peruse the big car sale sites (cars.com, ebay motors, cargurus.com, vroom.com) and get a feel for the going price.
Once you have that, you will know about what you should expect to pay.
This is what (theoretically) truecar and the like are supposed to do, but you really need to do the research yourself and see the actual asking prices.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by techrover »

If you are willing to do little extra work(mostly phone, email, spreadsheet) - I'd recommend an approach like this: http://www.realcartips.com/guide/newcars.shtml . It works much better than truecar/costco/others because you are having dealers beat each other.

I closed in on new high demand Honda vehicle in Dec 2016 for 20% below MSRP, ~10% below Truecar. I had some dealers go even below this, but my wife had specific color choices that didn't work out. Took me about 1 month, and probably year end timing helped.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by fandango »

I use the True Value price as one of several benchmarks and go to the dealer with my target price.

My most recent purchase was $2,000 below the True Value price with lots of other goodies thrown in (like free maintenance for 5 years, lifetime oil changes, window tinting, etc.). It was $500 dollars below my self-determined target price.

I would never rely on True Value only. You still need to determine your buying strategy and negotiate. Go when you are rested and fresh and don't be afraid to walk away.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Helo80 »

Ervin wrote: I remember when Truecar was Zag and really served buyers with true data. Then they figured out they were not making enough money on the buyers' side, so they switched sides. Nowadays, they are in the dealers' pockets, and so is anybody who uses Truecar for pricing (and 99% of the car pricing sites); that's you, Consumer Reports! (I also remember when CR had their own independent car pricing service, and one could rely 100% on what was in that. Before they sold out, too. May they rest in pieces, because they are in free fall.)

Agreed. You said it much cleaner than I did and that's what I was going after. For a while, TrueCar was on the buyer's side. Then, dealers figured out how to maintain profit margins with TrueCar. included.

I follow the salesman commentary over on reddit's r/askcarsales. According to them, TrueCar is 100% accurate and you should accept whatever price TrueCar spits out. I think most of the mod staff and actual sales commentators at r/askcarsales mean well, but their salesmen --- not financial advisors nor do they care if you get the best deal you can.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by nilu19 »

new2bogle wrote:When I bought a new car a couple of years ago, I was in the "Exceptional Price" category when I looked up my purchase price on TrueCar. That was done by just emailing all dealers within a 3 hour drive radius and picking the lowest.
I did same 3 years ago when I bought Odyssey 2014. Emailing dealers and asking them to match / lower the price based on other dealers quote brings price down significantly. Make sure to ask for OTD ( out the door ) price from each dealer so you are matching apple to apple and there is no hidden cost at last moment.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by boglegirl »

Blink235 wrote:...

The only way to get the best deal is with old fashioned elbow grease. That means looking up inventories for every dealership you are willing to drive to and negotating via phone and in-person until you are given the lowest price possible...
I agree with this post EXCEPT that the negotiations should be done by email. I did this last year and helped my daughter get a great deal on the exact car she wanted. I emailed about 20 dealers asking for a final out-the-door price on either a car I could see in inventory on their site, or giving them the specs if they didn't have inventory listed. Some of the dealers replied, "Call me and we'll talk." Nope. Some sent me ridiculously high offers (close to MSRP). Nope. I contacted the lowest 3 to tell them they were all close to getting the deal. The only one who had the color my daughter wanted agreed to price match the lower dealer who didn't have that color. At that point I agreed to talk by phone. The whole process was pretty painless and took about 3 days of checking email (I think initial contact was Tuesday, and we were in the dealership on Friday, driving away in the car).

If you do this process, use a secondary email account, not your main one. I'm still getting emails from some of the dealers in my special spammer email account, and it's 18 months later (and yes, I have clicked on unsubscribe!). And never ever give your phone number until the final negotiation stage, as someone else mentioned, or you'll be dealing with calls forever.

I don't remember the exact numbers now, but we bought the car for much less than what TrueCar suggested.
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by macandal »

JPH wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:13 pmBut I sent the email to all dealers within a 150 mile radius (about 12) and got back a wide range of OTD offers...
OMG, how did you get them to do that!!!

I know the car I want and the options I want. I emailed the closest dealers in my area (also about 12 or so) telling them the car I wanted and that I wanted to see their OTD price. Well, they probably didn't read the email. I got one or two offers, that's it! I keep receiving emails from dealers telling me to come in to talk about this or to call them but no one is doing what I asked them to do. I am tempted to go the TrueCar route because this is so frustrating. Even more so to me as I am a first-time buyer and I've never done this before. Any tips/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

A question, the TrueCar price that you get, does that include all the taxes and fees? Is that an out-the-door price?

Thanks.
chrisjul
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by chrisjul »

I also was disappointed with True Car and got a better deal on my own.
engineer1969
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by engineer1969 »

My credit union and Costco shopping services seemed to have a very similar interface which makes me wonder if the underlying shopping group is the same. The two inquiries resulted in 3 different dealers each -- so a total of 6 separate dealers. Only two of the six made more than one attempt to contact me. Two of them kept trying until I contacted them back.

We live in the DC metropolitan area, so there are a lot of dealerships. All the chosen sellers were no where near my home despite the availability of nearby dealerships. The furthest was 45 miles away and the closest was 25 miles away.

I eventually went to my local dealer less than a mile away with a price in mind based on the website data and quotes I had received by e-mail which they gladly matched. I felt like I got a good deal, but I doubt it was the best possible.
abonder
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by abonder »

macandal wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:13 pm
JPH wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:13 pmBut I sent the email to all dealers within a 150 mile radius (about 12) and got back a wide range of OTD offers...
OMG, how did you get them to do that!!!

I know the car I want and the options I want. I emailed the closest dealers in my area (also about 12 or so) telling them the car I wanted and that I wanted to see their OTD price. Well, they probably didn't read the email. I got one or two offers, that's it! I keep receiving emails from dealers telling me to come in to talk about this or to call them but no one is doing what I asked them to do. I am tempted to go the TrueCar route because this is so frustrating. Even more so to me as I am a first-time buyer and I've never done this before. Any tips/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

A question, the TrueCar price that you get, does that include all the taxes and fees? Is that an out-the-door price?

Thanks.
I would consider expanding your distance range a little bit to include more dealers. Also, you have to start somewhere. If you have one decentish offer, use that as a starting point and email other dealers soliciting a competing (but better) bid. When I did this process for my in-laws, I would reply once to the dealers who asked me to come in and refused to quote a price via email. I would offer them one more chance and if they wouldn’t play by the email process, I asked them to stop communicating and then I ignored or blocked their future emails. If you have time flexibility, you maybe just have to wait and try another round of emails. See if you can find a dealer in your region (or driveable distance) who is known for moving volume at a good price. There are dealers like this. You can try and get a price from them and then see how much it varies from local options. It could be a bargainin chip to you might even decide to buy from a more distant dealer for simplicity sake. Good luck.
abonder
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by abonder »

abonder wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:50 pm
macandal wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:13 pm
JPH wrote: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:13 pmBut I sent the email to all dealers within a 150 mile radius (about 12) and got back a wide range of OTD offers...
OMG, how did you get them to do that!!!

I know the car I want and the options I want. I emailed the closest dealers in my area (also about 12 or so) telling them the car I wanted and that I wanted to see their OTD price. Well, they probably didn't read the email. I got one or two offers, that's it! I keep receiving emails from dealers telling me to come in to talk about this or to call them but no one is doing what I asked them to do. I am tempted to go the TrueCar route because this is so frustrating. Even more so to me as I am a first-time buyer and I've never done this before. Any tips/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

A question, the TrueCar price that you get, does that include all the taxes and fees? Is that an out-the-door price?

Thanks.

I would consider expanding your distance range a little bit to include more dealers. Also, you have to start somewhere. If you have one decentish offer, use that as a starting point and email other dealers soliciting a competing (but better) bid. When I did this process for my in-laws, I would reply once to the dealers who asked me to come in and refused to quote a price via email. I would offer them one more chance and if they wouldn’t play by the email process, I asked them to stop communicating and then I ignored or blocked their future emails. If you have time flexibility, you maybe just have to wait and try another round of emails. See if you can find a dealer in your region (or driveable distance) who is known for moving volume at a good price. There are dealers like this. You can try and get a price from them and then see how much it varies from local options. It could be a bargainin chip to you might even decide to buy from a more distant dealer for simplicity sake. Good luck.

Also true car price is crap. You should easily be able to best it with minimal effort. I guess doing truecar is better than walking in off the street without doing any legwork, but just barely. Don’t give up!
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grabiner
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by grabiner »

engineer1969 wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:40 pm We live in the DC metropolitan area, so there are a lot of dealerships. All the chosen sellers were no where near my home despite the availability of nearby dealerships. The furthest was 45 miles away and the closest was 25 miles away.
This is a matter of which dealers participate in the area. I am considered to be in the Baltimore area, so I got TrueCar offers from the three Baltimore dealers who participate with TrueCar; they happen to be 7, 25, and 30 miles from my home.
Wiki David Grabiner
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macandal
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by macandal »

abonder wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:50 pmI would consider expanding your distance range a little bit to include more dealers. Also, you have to start somewhere. If you have one decentish offer, use that as a starting point and email other dealers soliciting a competing (but better) bid. When I did this process for my in-laws, I would reply once to the dealers who asked me to come in and refused to quote a price via email. I would offer them one more chance and if they wouldn’t play by the email process, I asked them to stop communicating and then I ignored or blocked their future emails. If you have time flexibility, you maybe just have to wait and try another round of emails. See if you can find a dealer in your region (or driveable distance) who is known for moving volume at a good price. There are dealers like this. You can try and get a price from them and then see how much it varies from local options. It could be a bargainin chip to you might even decide to buy from a more distant dealer for simplicity sake. Good luck.
3 dealers sent me offers just as I had requested (one, surprisingly the lowest, from here in San Francisco), 4 said they didn't have it, and 5 did not respond (or asked me to come in or call them). The last group of 5 received another email yesterday "reminding" them that I was waiting for their offers. These were the 12 dealerships within a 50 mile radius from San Francisco. I'll wait a day or two, and if I don't hear back from them, I'll expand the search to 100 miles (or 150).

I know from what others have said that the TrueCar price is crap. My question is, is it still somewhat high? In other words, you're saying I should get a better price from what is quoted by them? Can you give me a ballpark figure as to how much less I should be able to get? 10%, 20% less?

So, does the TrueCar Average, as crappy as it is, does it include taxes and fees or not?

Thank you.
TropikThunder
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by TropikThunder »

macandal wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:42 pm So, does the TrueCar Average, as crappy as it is, does it include taxes and fees or not?

Thank you.
It doesn’t include taxes or fees. Sales tax on a car is based on where you’re going to register it, not where the dealership is. TrueCar doesn’t maintain a database to calculate those taxes since services that provide that information (like Avalara) charge a fee.
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macandal
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by macandal »

TropikThunder wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:28 pmIt doesn’t include taxes or fees. Sales tax on a car is based on where you’re going to register it, not where the dealership is. TrueCar doesn’t maintain a database to calculate those taxes since services that provide that information (like Avalara) charge a fee.
Thank you.
smackboy1
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by smackboy1 »

macandal wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:42 pmI know from what others have said that the TrueCar price is crap. My question is, is it still somewhat high? In other words, you're saying I should get a better price from what is quoted by them? Can you give me a ballpark figure as to how much less I should be able to get? 10%, 20% less?
It's difficult to have a hard and fast rule because there are other variables in play e.g. corporate employee discounts; organization membership discounts; end of month manufacturer to dealer volume sales holdbacks; been sitting on the lot unsold; etc..

From my own limited experience buying 2 luxury cars in the past 12 months I can offer this:

- I've read on car enthusiast forums that as a general rule >10% discount from MSRP is a pretty good price. After factoring in seasonal manufacturer incentives and other credits the buyer may bring to the table, the discount might be even bigger. IIRC I was around 12-13% less than MSRP.

- In both cases my price was completely off the left side of the TrueCar chart i.e. it was below what TrueCar considered an exceptional price and nobody reported a lower price. That's how I knew it was a pretty good price.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
investment_actuary
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by investment_actuary »

I suspect that focusing on discounts off MSRP or dealer invoce is exactly what dealerships want you to do. MSRP/dealer invoice is way above the bottom line, which is what you really need to focus on.

Specifically, focus on the cost to drive the car off the lot, to the penny.

Talking about savings off MSRP/dealer invoice is easy to brag about. Once a dealership has you convinced that you've got a great deal, you'll actually pay all kinds of additional fees and you'll have no idea where they're fleecing you.

For the past dozen years or so, I've followed an approach of basically conducting my own auction, making the dealerships bid on my purchase. Specifically, they're telling you the itemized price, to the penny, to drive the car off the lot.

An itemized price serves two functions. One is you can hold them to it. Two is it reveals just how meaningless the discount off MSRP/invoice really is.

You can read more about this strategy in two places. One is Chapter 1 of a book called The Predictioneer's Game, by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita. The other, which I have used repeatedly over the past decade+, most recently in 2015, called Fighting Chance. http://fightingchance.com/

The basic steps are
  • Decide what make/model/package/options you want.
  • If you need to visit dealerships to help you decide, go ahead.
  • Find out whatever the price is for all your eligible group buying services (eg, Costco, AAA, TrueCar, whatever). Go ahead and visit your Costco-appointed dealership. Note these price quotes are always ABOVE THE BOTTOM LINE. They know car buyers like to brag (see other posts above) about how much they saved off MSRP/invoice. Find out instead how much it will cost you to drive off the lot, and you'll soon discover a whole galaxy of extra fees that nobody every brags about. Treat these prices as your worst case outcome, but you should still do better than this.
  • Gather the contacts from all the dealers for your want within whatever driving radius you're willing to drive.
  • Call the dealerships and explain what you're doing. Tell them the specifics of the car you want and the date you intend to buy it.
  • Ask them if they will give you their best price, after all taxes and fees, to the penny, to drive it off the lot. Tell them you'll keep their quote confidential, but you will afford them and the others a chance to beat your best offer.
In my experience this method has saved me a couple thousand below what it would have cost using the Costco/AAA discounted price. I know this because those dealerships actually participated in my auction, and quoted lower prices than their affiliated price when I visited them.

Not all dealerships will participate. Some will whine. I actually had a dealer call me to tell me the lowest price isn't the best price. Really.

One huge caveat: The finance officer's office is where all the skullduggery goes on. My experience is this is where the bait/switch comes in. One time (Acura dealer) I was asked to sign a sheet declaring the options we'd agreed to, and it was blank. I showed them the salesman's email with an itemized listing of options and they went through the kibuki theater of pretending to discuss the matter outside the office, in my view. Pretty comical, but aside from them stalling I still got the price we agreed to. Another time the anti-theft service, which had never been listed in any itemized quotes (I had not noticed), suddenly appeared as an additional charge. So I declined this service and got the price agreed to. (The car still has the anti-theft decals, so the visual deterrent is just as good as if it had the service turned on).

$45 or so for Fighting Chance is quite a bargain. It affords you a market survey of current rebate programs on offer. Last time I used it the creator, James Bragg, spent quite a long time on the phone with me forensically going through the lease math to identify just how much the eventual savings actually were. I assume he doesn't always have time to do that, but it was my first time leasing and he is fun to talk to.

If you think that's too much, purchase Predictioneer's Game or borrow it from your library and read chapter 1. It won't include current market rebate info, but it will offer more details than I wrote above. Also, you can still find a ton of free info on the fightingchance website.
Sasquatch
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by Sasquatch »

I was able to beat the Costco price on a Honda Pilot and a Subaru Outback through negotiation. The Subaru was simple. We were told the Costco price. They let us take the car for a test drive alone. We stopped at a mini market and bought a Saturday paper. Another dealer was offering a significantly better price in a newspaper ad. We handed the ad to the salesman and it was matched.

Pilot was a bit tougher. A lot of negotiations. Ended up $1000 back of invoice.
wfrobinette
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Re: My Costco/TrueCar auto shopping experience

Post by wfrobinette »

new2bogle wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:58 pm When I bought a new car a couple of years ago, I was in the "Exceptional Price" category when I looked up my purchase price on TrueCar. That was done by just emailing all dealers within a 3 hour drive radius and picking the lowest.
I won't go in the door unless they start at the exceptional price.
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