New roof suggestions.

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*3!4!/5!
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New roof suggestions.

Post by *3!4!/5! » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:47 pm

I need to replace my roof (i.e. the 25ish(?) year old asphalt shingles need replacing), so I just need some general ideas on how to approach getting this done.

Getting quotes: I was thinking of going for local established roofing companies (hoping that this ensures higher quality, but they might charge more than other options). Is that the right idea? I also thought I should get 3 quotes? Should I get more/less than 3? What should I ask/tell them, and what should I expect them to do? What should I expect of the quotes (e.g. details, and options)?

Shingles: This is a $200k house in a LCOL region, so fancy roofing options don't make sense -- it'll be some kind of asphalt shingles (3-tab or architectural). Do people have any specific suggestions of what brands/styles to choose or avoid? (In my online searches, I found it hard to really get an answer on this, apart from that none of them last as long as they say, and that the warranties are pretty worthless in practice.) The conditions they need to withstand are heat, humidity, storms.

Am I doing this at a bad time of year? (I.e. busier time of year might cost more, but on the other hand I read something about shingles need head to seal or adhere, so summer is supposedly better for that.)

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Watty
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by Watty » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:07 pm

If you know any real estate agents ask them for recommendations for roofing companies. Having to replace a roof on a house as part of a sale is common so they have likely dealt, at least indirectly, with a number of companies.

When you are talking with the roofing company be sure to let them know that "Jane Doe at Acme real estate" referred you to them. That way they know that if there are any problems, or good work, that "Jane Doe" will hear about it and they may get or lose future referrals from that real estate company.

Consider the color of your new roof since it might affect your heating and AC bills and how quickly snow melts in the winter time. I am not sure if they still exist but at one time there was an energy rebate for getting a light color roof. If you are in a HOA that might also have restrictions on roof colors.

Ask your home insurance company if buying any particular type of shingle will get you a discount especially if you are in a hurricane prone area.

The last time I got a roof the architectural singles only cost a bit more than the 3-tab since most of the cost is in the labor. I went with that since it should last longer.

*3!4!/5!
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by *3!4!/5! » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:10 pm

^ No HOA. Almost no snow (a few inches per decade).

John Z
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by John Z » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:14 pm

Got a roof replacement in Daytona FL area. Roofers suggest the architectural because they have a higher wind resistance and less people are getting the 3 tab. I got 5 quotes and went with the lowest which was a local and well known company. Yes, lighter color is better but my insurance didn't care that I was getting a new roof! No discounts. The warranty is a bit longer for architectural since there is an additional layer of roof but looking at my new roof I think they are making them thinner and thinner. Mine came with a guarantee both by mfr and roofer.

Rupert
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by Rupert » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:14 pm

Pay very close attention to the quote for the cost of roof decking per square foot should they find rot when they rip the old shingles off. It's a fairly common (fraudulent) practice in the roofing industry for them to leave that bit out of the initial quote, knowing that you'll pay anything in the middle of a project just to get the project completed. An honest roofer will tell you if he suspects rot, e.g., "I found a soft spot over by that chimney that may or may not be rotten. The price will be $X for the new shingles + $Y per square foot for any decking we have to replace."

Edited to say: Go with the architectural, not the tab. Houses with tab shingles really stick out like sore thumbs these days. When I see them, I think, "Cheap roof."

ETadvisor
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by ETadvisor » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:42 pm

Watty wrote:If you know any real estate agents ask them for recommendations for roofing companies. Having to replace a roof on a house as part of a sale is common so they have likely dealt, at least indirectly, with a number of companies.

When you are talking with the roofing company be sure to let them know that "Jane Doe at Acme real estate" referred you to them. That way they know that if there are any problems, or good work, that "Jane Doe" will hear about it and they may get or lose future referrals from that real estate company.

Consider the color of your new roof since it might affect your heating and AC bills and how quickly snow melts in the winter time. I am not sure if they still exist but at one time there was an energy rebate for getting a light color roof. If you are in a HOA that might also have restrictions on roof colors.

Ask your home insurance company if buying any particular type of shingle will get you a discount especially if you are in a hurricane prone area.


The last time I got a roof the architectural singles only cost a bit more than the 3-tab since most of the cost is in the labor. I went with that since it should last longer.
Per my insurance agent "hip" roof geometry gives discount. Not sure if applicable to you.

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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by *3!4!/5! » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:32 pm

I do get a home insurance discount for "hip roof" geometry. I don't know of the covering giving a discount. (Some time ago I asked the insurance agent about all possible discounts, and that's when I found out about the "hip roof" discount, but nothing else was mentioned regarding the roof.

I agree a lighter color would be advantageous with reflecting light/heat, but one disadvantage is that discoloration would be more obvious.

It does look like the 3-tabs are falling out of favor even in a relatively low-cost area, and the cost difference for the architectural ones is not that much, and they should have longer life and better wind resistance.

The discussions I had so far lead me to think this:
Rupert wrote:An honest roofer will tell you if he suspects rot, e.g., "I found a soft spot over by that chimney that may or may not be rotten. The price will be $X for the new shingles + $Y per square foot for any decking we have to replace."
is indeed the way the "honest roofers" do it.

Thanks for the comments/suggestions. Getting a new roof is a pretty rare event (first time for me) so I'm trying to get educated about it.

fishboat
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by fishboat » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:12 am

Just had mine done..I went with Owens Corning Duration..good stuff. A roof is not something you want to go super cheap on.

https://www.owenscorning.com/roofing/sh ... s/duration

Have a full tear-off done and water-ice damning membrane applied if needed (by gutters and around flashings).

overcomer
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by overcomer » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:40 am

I would suggest talking with your chosen contractors previous customer's ,up to five years back,? regardless of roofing materials to be used, did the contractor stop in afterwards to check the roof, was everything done the way the contractor said it would be done, does the contractor stay in touch with his previous customers, etc.

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deanbrew
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by deanbrew » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:56 am

Rupert wrote:Go with the architectural, not the tab. Houses with tab shingles really stick out like sore thumbs these days. When I see them, I think, "Cheap roof."
I agree. Even though you are talking about a modest home in a low cost of living area, just about every house gets architectural shingles. They cost about 10 to 15 percent more from a materials standpoint, and probably a little more for installation, too. But they are rated to last longer, and they definitely look a lot better, both new and even moreso 10-20 years down the road.
Am I doing this at a bad time of year? (I.e. busier time of year might cost more, but on the other hand I read something about shingles need head to seal or adhere, so summer is supposedly better for that.)
Yeah, it is better to do it during the summer or early fall, so the tar/asphalt seals better. As far as getting a better price, my guess is providing the roofer with a long time frame is more important than the time of year. If you say that it doesn't need done right away, and that the roofer can fit it into his schedule before, say October, you might get a better price quote. Having said that, it doesn't work that way with my brother, who is a contractor. He charges everyone the same rate and just gets to jobs when he can. People wait months for him to show up because he is good and charges a relatively low price. Everyone runs their business differently.
Last edited by deanbrew on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TheGreyingDuke
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by TheGreyingDuke » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:33 am

If you are going to remove the existing shingles (which makes for a better job) then you need to factor in the cost of disposal, which can be very high depending on your local situation.
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." H.G. Wells

*3!4!/5!
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by *3!4!/5! » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:58 pm

I've got a couple of quotes now. They seem very detailed about what's included, then give a total price (except with additional decking replacement, as needed, as an extra cost) - actually different prices based on choice of shingles, but otherwise (almost) all-inclusive. It doesn't seem to me that there's any kind of "trickery" in these quotes - they say this is what we'll do and this is what we'll charge (though I guess I wouldn't know exactly which materials they use e.g. for underlayment, or I wouldn't be able to judge).

Unfortunately the prices are higher than I had hoped, not that I was really sure what to expect. So one question is, if you hope for a lower price, do you ever ask the roofer/contractor if they can lower the price, or do you just get additional quotes from other companies?

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CAsage
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by CAsage » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:11 pm

If all the estimates are coming in close, then that is what it costs. This is a pretty simple time (labor, insurance) and materials business - why would they suddenly make less profit or short their employees? Cut somewhere else!
Salvia Clevelandii "Winifred Gilman" my favorite. YMMV; not a professional advisor.

*3!4!/5!
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by *3!4!/5! » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:24 pm

CAsage wrote:If all the estimates are coming in close, then that is what it costs. This is a pretty simple time (labor, insurance) and materials business - why would they suddenly make less profit or short their employees? Cut somewhere else!
That's what I figured, but just wanted to check.

TravelforFun
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by TravelforFun » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:47 pm

I'm waiting for the Tesla solar tiles to be commercially available.

*3!4!/5!
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by *3!4!/5! » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:53 pm

What do you do if someone is supposed come and give you a quote and they just don't show up?

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by Doom&Gloom » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:36 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:What do you do if someone is supposed come and give you a quote and they just don't show up?
Not hire him to do the job.

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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by *3!4!/5! » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:24 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:What do you do if someone is supposed come and give you a quote and they just don't show up?
Not hire him to do the job.
Exactly what I thought. The thing is, it could be an unreliable employee in an otherwise decent company, and I would think the owner/boss would be pretty pi*d off that this would happen. (It's possible something came up that meant they couldn't make it, but they could at least phone or email.) But it puts enough doubt in my mind, that I think I have to scratch them from my list and look elsewhere. (I won't even contact them about it.)

Now I only got 2 quotes, and I need to figure if I need to try to get more. :annoyed

Harley BenV
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by Harley BenV » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:34 am

Watty wrote:If you know any real estate agents ask them for recommendations for roofing companies. Having to replace a roof on a house as part of a sale is common so they have likely dealt, at least indirectly, with a number of companies.

When you are talking with the roofing company be sure to let them know that "Jane Doe at Acme real estate" referred you to them. That way they know that if there are any problems, or good work, that "Jane Doe" will hear about it and they may get or lose future referrals from that real estate company.

Consider the color of your new roof since it might affect your heating and AC bills and how quickly snow melts in the winter time. I am not sure if they still exist but at one time there was an energy rebate for getting a light color roof. If you are in a HOA that might also have restrictions on roof colors.

Ask your home insurance company if buying any particular type of shingle will get you a discount especially if you are in a hurricane prone area.

The last time I got a roof the architectural singles only cost a bit more than the 3-tab since most of the cost is in the labor. I went with that since it should last longer.

That's totally on point!

brennok
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by brennok » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:54 pm

You might also try your neighborhood on Nextdoor.com for recommendations. We have had good luck with recommendations on there.

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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by oldcomputerguy » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:38 am

*3!4!/5! wrote: Getting quotes: I was thinking of going for local established roofing companies (hoping that this ensures higher quality, but they might charge more than other options). Is that the right idea? I also thought I should get 3 quotes? Should I get more/less than 3? What should I ask/tell them, and what should I expect them to do? What should I expect of the quotes (e.g. details, and options)?
When you get quotes, before settling on the cheapest one, make sure you know whether or not the quote includes the removal and disposal of the existing shingles. Sometimes companies will quote a job that involves simply nailing the new shingles on top of the old. There is some school of thought that this is acceptable done once but not more than once. Personally, we have had the roof replaced twice on our current home in a twenty-year span (once due to hailstorm damage), and I have always had them remove the old before putting on the new.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by wvmtnbkr » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:11 am

*3!4!/5! wrote:I've got a couple of quotes now. They seem very detailed about what's included, then give a total price (except with additional decking replacement, as needed, as an extra cost) - actually different prices based on choice of shingles, but otherwise (almost) all-inclusive. It doesn't seem to me that there's any kind of "trickery" in these quotes - they say this is what we'll do and this is what we'll charge (though I guess I wouldn't know exactly which materials they use e.g. for underlayment, or I wouldn't be able to judge).

Unfortunately the prices are higher than I had hoped, not that I was really sure what to expect. So one question is, if you hope for a lower price, do you ever ask the roofer/contractor if they can lower the price, or do you just get additional quotes from other companies?

Good roofers are expensive, but also worth the money. I've had two roofs installed on two separate homes in the last four years, using two separate roofing companies. I've also helped install several roofs over the years for friends/family. I put together my own rough estimate prior to getting estimates from contractors for comparison purposes and knew what (dimensional) shingles, underlayment, etc. I wanted.

First roof was approximately 1600 sq ft, and after talking to several roofers I decided to use a company recommended by my general-contractor neighbor. Since that roof was small, they indicated they could fit it in with another job in the area, but that it might be a month or so. No worries, since the roof wasn't in drastic need of replacement. FOUR months later, they showed up. During this time we stayed in touch, and they were very upfront that they had all their crews working in another part of the state but hadn't forgotten about me. They honored their original estimate, and completed the work in less than four hours (this included complete tear off, re-roof and clean up). I was happy with the work they did, but when a minor warranty issue came up it took quite a bit of time for them to come out. So long, in fact, that I just fixed it myself.
Cost in my LCOL area: $4,250

Second roof (current home) was a much bigger job (~3400 sq ft). Quotes were wildly different ($10k-$15k), and one company (construction/roofing company) even tried to apply some "high-pressure" sales tactics to get me to sign a contract the day they came out to give me an estimate. "Upselling" to better underlayment (which may already required by the shingle manufacturer) was also a tactic used by this company. When I saw their estimate (and literally LOL'ed), they immediately offered to match any other estimates. I called another roofing company what was relatively new to our area. When their estimator came out, it turned out that we knew each other from years ago. Their estimate was very reasonable (slightly lower than my rough estimate, actually) and they had no problem fitting me into their schedule two weeks later. When they arrived, it was like an invading army. 30+ guys swarmed over they roof, removing the old roof, fixing a previously-identified soft-spot on the porch, and putting new high-quality underlayment and shingles down, and cleaning up. Took them 2.5 days (they estimated 2 days), but that was due to roofer moving a crew to another house to make a weather-related emergency repair, which I had no problem with. Cost in my LCOL area: $16,250.

I told both companies they could use me for a reference, and did get several calls from potential customers over they the next year or so. I shared the good and bad with anyone who called.

Some things to remember:
1. All the roofers are probably getting their materials from the same regional supplier for the same price.
2. In most cases, materials will be delivered a day or two before the roofers show up. This will give you time to verify that they will install what was ordered/estimated. If you see a problem contact them ASAP.
3. Be prepared to be flexible, weather can impact the roofers in ways you may not anticipate. For instance, the first company I used were very open that they had agreements with several large commercial businesses that gave them first-priority for repairs in the event of damage due to severe weather.

Stephen

*3!4!/5!
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by *3!4!/5! » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:46 pm

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, everyone!

nordsteve
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by nordsteve » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:50 pm

Seconding the suggestion on checking with your insurance. On my recent roof replacement, the reduced insurance costs of impact resistant shingles paid off the increased cost in 5 years.

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CWRadio
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by CWRadio » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:34 pm

Is it better to have the asphalt shingles nailed or stapled down? Thanks Paul

wvmtnbkr
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by wvmtnbkr » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:47 am

CWRadio wrote:Is it better to have the asphalt shingles nailed or stapled down? Thanks Paul
"Old-fashioned" hammer and roofing nails. I've seen roofs damaged by overzealous roofers wielding nailguns...

Stephen

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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by barnaclebob » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:38 pm

wvmtnbkr wrote:
CWRadio wrote:Is it better to have the asphalt shingles nailed or stapled down? Thanks Paul
"Old-fashioned" hammer and roofing nails. I've seen roofs damaged by overzealous roofers wielding nailguns...

Stephen
I'm guessing 99% of roofing contractors would struggle to not laugh if you told them to only use a hammer.

wvmtnbkr
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by wvmtnbkr » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:59 am

barnaclebob wrote:
wvmtnbkr wrote:
CWRadio wrote:Is it better to have the asphalt shingles nailed or stapled down? Thanks Paul
"Old-fashioned" hammer and roofing nails. I've seen roofs damaged by overzealous roofers wielding nailguns...

Stephen
I'm guessing 99% of roofing contractors would struggle to not laugh if you told them to only use a hammer.
Maybe, but when labor is plentiful, it can be significantly cheaper for a roofing contractor to use the "old-fashioned" method versus the additional equipment/maintenance/training/safety costs associated with air compressors, nail guns, air hoses, etc.

Stephen

*3!4!/5!
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by *3!4!/5! » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:23 pm

^^ I got a quote where they explicitly state that they do all nailing by hand (hammer), so it's clearly something that some do, and by saying it I guess they're saying that's higher quality than someone who doesn't. (I know nothing about roofing of course.)

2comma
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Re: New roof suggestions.

Post by 2comma » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:50 pm

I had heard it was better to hand nail from a neighbor who was having her roof done. When I had mine done the contractor said they hand nail. I asked why is it better. He said because when you hit a knot or miss in a gap you know it so you can pull the nail out and move to a new spot to nail. My roof was built from 1x8 boards - plenty of knots and gaps between the boards. I had at least 50 "nail pops" in my old roof. He said there would still be some but not many. So far I haven't seen any but I'm not sure they'd be easy to notice with architectural shingles anyway. While the were working another neighbor came over and said "that's the way they're suppose to be done".

Anyway, I'd say at least 90% of the roofs I see done in this area are with nail guns. I had a co-worker that had years of trouble with shingles coming detached a stapled on roof. Here is an article on the problems with using staples on roofs: http://structuretech1.com/the-problem-w ... d-shingles
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