Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:38 pm

OK, guys, I asked you for some advice 7 years ago and you told me to get an Acura MDX. I did so and it has been a great car. 116,000 miles so far with no problems whatsoever. My daughter Pebbles turned 16 this week and I gave her the car for her birthday. So now I need a new car.

Background:
I drive about 15,000 miles per year. In the past I've owned cars for about 8 years before getting a new one. The car I plan to buy now will likely be handed down to my son in about 4 years. I don't require a lot of bells and whistles, but I'm not going to lie -- I have nothing against a car that looks good and can accelerate.

The requirements:
Reliability, reliability, and reliability (if Wilma needs me to get some Dinoburgers, I can't be late)
AWD (Bedrock is icy and snowy in the wintertime)
Brake assist technology (in case any dinosaurs suddenly run into the street)
Smaller than the Acura MDX (now that Pebbles can drive herself around, we no longer need a mid-sized car)

The finances:
Wilma and I have $4 million+ in assets. We own our home outright. We have no debt. We have a very comfortable income.

New vs. used:
I considered buying a used late-model car, such as a CPO, but found that the savings are rather small -- generally on the order of 10 percent or so. It seems to me that it is a better value proposition to buy a new car.

The candidates so far:

Subaru Legacy sedan. It's relatively inexpensive and has everything I need. But Consumer Reports said, "Subaru dropped out of the top 10 reliable brands because of multiple problems in the Legacy sedan." http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reli ... rvey-2016/ I don't mean to be flippant, but buying this car would "live within your means" to an extreme. Price: About $31,000 plus tax.

Lexus NX. This is a reliable compact SUV that would probably run for 200,000 miles or more. It's sort of like a small version of the Acura MDX that I have liked so much.

Audi A4. This is a sporty car that I didn't expect to consider, but according to Consumer Reports, it is very reliable -- even more so than Hondas, which I find hard to believe. Anyway, it's a nice car and it's fun to drive. Price: About $46,000 plus tax. But will it spend a lot of time in the shop? To what extent should I care if the car is covered under an extended warranty?

Which one should I buy? Are there other cars I should be considering? Thank you in advance for your help!

livesoft
Posts: 57205
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by livesoft » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:58 pm

CPO Lexus RX350's are a dime a dozen in our area, so the savings are much much better than 10%. They are nice beater cars though. It is not unusual to see 5 of them at a 4-way-stop intersection. You should be able to get one at an OTD price of $30K or less.

Even a more expensive sedan like a Lexus LS 460 is under $50K OTD, so that's more than 30% off new.
This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

sport
Posts: 6123
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by sport » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:09 pm

fredflinstone wrote:The requirements:Reliability, reliability, and reliability...
Reliability = Lexus

User avatar
ram
Posts: 892
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:47 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by ram » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:34 pm

viewtopic.php?t=146906
The above is my thread when I wanted to buy a car.
I got Lexus LS for >40% off at 3yrs. I drove Audi A4 for 4 days as a silvercar rental. It is a good car but my lexus LS is much more comfortable and as 3yr old CPO cheaper than a new A4. The CPO may be 'advertised' at 10% off but with negotiations you can end up with >30% off. I also like the Avalon much better than A4. My daughter uses my old one with 155K miles.
I test drove 3 yr old RX when I bought the LS and I like it better than A4.
Last edited by ram on Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ram

User avatar
Dendritic Tree
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by Dendritic Tree » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:38 pm

We've got a 6-year old Lexus RX 450h hybrid that has never had a single problem and has performed flawlessly. I would imagine the slightly smaller NX (also available in a hybrid, FYI) would be just as reliable. I had a NX loaner once and it handled nicely.

finite_difference
Posts: 725
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by finite_difference » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:54 pm

What about the Acura TLX w/ AWD?
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

inbox788
Posts: 4189
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by inbox788 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:06 pm

why not RDX?

or for a little less a CRV? or the smaller HRV (this one might not have the automatic braking yet, but it's on the higher end CRVs)?

Doom&Gloom
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by Doom&Gloom » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:21 pm

I have no specific car suggestions but a couple of comments.

Background:
I drive about 15,000 miles per year. In the past I've owned cars for about 8 years before getting a new one. The car I plan to buy now will likely be handed down to my son in about 4 years. I don't require a lot of bells and whistles, but I'm not going to lie -- I have nothing against a car that looks good and can accelerate.


If your intent is to hand the car down to your son in four years, I would not place an emphasis on the ability to "accelerate". I handed my then-current car down to my son three years ago and bought myself a car that is fun to drive and can accelerate.

If you want a car with some zip or is otherwise fun to drive, consider buying the car now that you really want for yourself for the next 8 years and buying your son a used car that is perfectly suitable for him when the time comes four years down the road. [For full disclosure I have thoroughly enjoyed the car I bought myself for the past three years, but there is no way that I would have given DS a similar vehicle at that time--or even now.]

livesoft
Posts: 57205
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by livesoft » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:25 pm

My son pointed out a Nissan GT-R to me today in the H.E.B. parking lot. It was near a BMW i8.
This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

hightower
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:28 am

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by hightower » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:31 pm

fredflinstone wrote:OK, guys, I asked you for some advice 7 years ago and you told me to get an Acura MDX. I did so and it has been a great car. 116,000 miles so far with no problems whatsoever. My daughter Pebbles turned 16 this week and I gave her the car for her birthday. So now I need a new car.

Background:
I drive about 15,000 miles per year. In the past I've owned cars for about 8 years before getting a new one. The car I plan to buy now will likely be handed down to my son in about 4 years. I don't require a lot of bells and whistles, but I'm not going to lie -- I have nothing against a car that looks good and can accelerate.

The requirements:
Reliability, reliability, and reliability (if Wilma needs me to get some Dinoburgers, I can't be late)
AWD (Bedrock is icy and snowy in the wintertime)
Brake assist technology (in case any dinosaurs suddenly run into the street)
Smaller than the Acura MDX (now that Pebbles can drive herself around, we no longer need a mid-sized car)

The finances:
Wilma and I have $4 million+ in assets. We own our home outright. We have no debt. We have a very comfortable income.

New vs. used:
I considered buying a used late-model car, such as a CPO, but found that the savings are rather small -- generally on the order of 10 percent or so. It seems to me that it is a better value proposition to buy a new car.

The candidates so far:

Subaru Legacy sedan. It's relatively inexpensive and has everything I need. But Consumer Reports said, "Subaru dropped out of the top 10 reliable brands because of multiple problems in the Legacy sedan." http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reli ... rvey-2016/ I don't mean to be flippant, but buying this car would "live within your means" to an extreme. Price: About $31,000 plus tax.

Lexus NX. This is a reliable compact SUV that would probably run for 200,000 miles or more. It's sort of like a small version of the Acura MDX that I have liked so much.

Audi A4. This is a sporty car that I didn't expect to consider, but according to Consumer Reports, it is very reliable -- even more so than Hondas, which I find hard to believe. Anyway, it's a nice car and it's fun to drive. Price: About $46,000 plus tax. But will it spend a lot of time in the shop? To what extent should I care if the car is covered under an extended warranty?

Which one should I buy? Are there other cars I should be considering? Thank you in advance for your help!
You like acceleration? Go all electric. Lot's of savings on gas costs when you drive that much as well. The new Chevy Bolt is around 38k before the 7500k tax credit. It has great range and great acceleration. I drive a BMW i3 (the BEV version, all electric, not the range extender). Pricier, but I love it. It's surprisingly fast too. I find it hilarious when I effortlessly beat people off the line who aren't expecting it. Its really fun to drive.
Go for a tesla model s if you want to impress your friends with looks and crazy acceleration. All of the above come with tax savings and big time fuel savings if you drive a lot. I also feel they are cheaper to maintain because there are far fewer moving parts. I'm keeping tabs on my i3 to see if I'm right.

KT785
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by KT785 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:41 pm

fredflinstone wrote:
The candidates so far:

Subaru Legacy sedan. It's relatively inexpensive and has everything I need. But Consumer Reports said, "Subaru dropped out of the top 10 reliable brands because of multiple problems in the Legacy sedan." http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reli ... rvey-2016/ I don't mean to be flippant, but buying this car would "live within your means" to an extreme. Price: About $31,000 plus tax.

Lexus NX. This is a reliable compact SUV that would probably run for 200,000 miles or more. It's sort of like a small version of the Acura MDX that I have liked so much.

Audi A4. This is a sporty car that I didn't expect to consider, but according to Consumer Reports, it is very reliable -- even more so than Hondas, which I find hard to believe. Anyway, it's a nice car and it's fun to drive. Price: About $46,000 plus tax. But will it spend a lot of time in the shop? To what extent should I care if the car is covered under an extended warranty?
I have a 2017 Subaru Outback which is essentially a raised, legacy wagon and am very pleased. However, I understand the concerns re: reliability as I'm also a CR subscriber . . . though it didn't stop me from getting the Outback as I have an affinity for station wagons (though I'm only 29 :D ). Given that you're looking at smaller cars, perhaps the Subaru Forester might be considered--I believe the current model gets pretty stellar reliability ratings from CR.

BBBob
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:25 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by BBBob » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:50 pm

hightower wrote:You like acceleration? Go all electric. Lot's of savings on gas costs when you drive that much as well. The new Chevy Bolt is around 38k before the 7500k tax credit. It has great range and great acceleration.
+1 Even if you don;t think you are interested, try it. The acceleration will blow you away. And (if my 20 years experience with EV driving hold true) you can expect zero maintenance and zero down-time. If you own a house or have a place to charge, its a no-brainer to me; I am unaware of anyone who has gone back to gasoline. (Kind of like going back to kerosene lamps after experiencing light bulbs.)

forevernaive
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 3:46 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by forevernaive » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:08 pm

Teenage boy will be the next driver in 4 years?

Volvo. Safety.

Either the S60 sedan or the XC60 SUV might fit the ticket. With AWD, they are excellent in snow.

I think the Lexus NX is a solid choice as well. I'd stay far away from the A4 with a teenage boy driver on the horizon.

jbuzolich
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:52 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by jbuzolich » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:52 pm

I have a 2016 Subaru Legacy limited and love it. My first Subaru and really wasn't even thinking of the brand but the test drive quickly converted me without question. Sticker was $31k but paid $29k. Still happy with it after 1.5 years. Just bought my wife the Subaru Forester she wanted about three weeks ago. Paid $27k for it and she's loving it.

User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 10450
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by HomerJ » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:49 am

forevernaive wrote:Teenage boy will be the next driver in 4 years?
Something cheaper (but reliable).

Don't be one of those people who hand their 16 year-old a $50,000 SUV as their first car.

BanditKing
Posts: 534
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:11 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by BanditKing » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:24 am

Of that list, I'd go with the Lexus.

If you can find a CPO NX or NX Hybrid, the kid should be set through grad school. :)

The goal is to keep it maintained, clean, and long enough to put classic-car plates on it :)

inbox788
Posts: 4189
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by inbox788 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:26 am

Forgot to add RAV4, which I've seen a lot of new ones around lately and looking up sales figures seems to explain why.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4#Sales
hightower wrote:You like acceleration? Go all electric. Lot's of savings on gas costs when you drive that much as well. The new Chevy Bolt is around 38k before the 7500k tax credit. It has great range and great acceleration. I drive a BMW i3 (the BEV version, all electric, not the range extender). Pricier, but I love it. It's surprisingly fast too. I find it hilarious when I effortlessly beat people off the line who aren't expecting it. Its really fun to drive.
Go for a tesla model s if you want to impress your friends with looks and crazy acceleration. All of the above come with tax savings and big time fuel savings if you drive a lot. I also feel they are cheaper to maintain because there are far fewer moving parts. I'm keeping tabs on my i3 to see if I'm right.
Are these available in 4WD/AWD? Tesla is the only one I know for sure is. I think they're bringing AWD to the Bolt, but haven't seen it available yet.

User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:05 am

finite_difference wrote:What about the Acura TLX w/ AWD?
I tried this car out and liked it, but Consumer Reports gave it poor reviews for reliability.

User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:24 am

Here is a CPO 2015 Lexus NT 200t in my state that looks interesting:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventory ... =174297893

I believe it meets all of my requirements (AWD, brake assist, etc.). 29,000 miles. It is priced at $33K, which is $1,789 below market price, according to cargurus.com. The warranty would run through 2021, unlimited miles. the dealer has already reduced the price by $4,200.

If I offer $32K, maybe my offer would be accepted? This would get me a CPO Lexus for roughly the cost of a high-end Subaru Legacy.

User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:31 am

livesoft wrote:CPO Lexus RX350's are a dime a dozen in our area, so the savings are much much better than 10%. They are nice beater cars though. It is not unusual to see 5 of them at a 4-way-stop intersection. You should be able to get one at an OTD price of $30K or less.
The RX350 is larger than I need or want.

User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:36 am

Doom&Gloom wrote:I have no specific car suggestions but a couple of comments.

Background:
I drive about 15,000 miles per year. In the past I've owned cars for about 8 years before getting a new one. The car I plan to buy now will likely be handed down to my son in about 4 years. I don't require a lot of bells and whistles, but I'm not going to lie -- I have nothing against a car that looks good and can accelerate.


If your intent is to hand the car down to your son in four years, I would not place an emphasis on the ability to "accelerate". I handed my then-current car down to my son three years ago and bought myself a car that is fun to drive and can accelerate.
Very good suggestion.

User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:37 am

hightower wrote:
fredflinstone wrote:OK, guys, I asked you for some advice 7 years ago and you told me to get an Acura MDX. I did so and it has been a great car. 116,000 miles so far with no problems whatsoever. My daughter Pebbles turned 16 this week and I gave her the car for her birthday. So now I need a new car.

Background:
I drive about 15,000 miles per year. In the past I've owned cars for about 8 years before getting a new one. The car I plan to buy now will likely be handed down to my son in about 4 years. I don't require a lot of bells and whistles, but I'm not going to lie -- I have nothing against a car that looks good and can accelerate.

The requirements:
Reliability, reliability, and reliability (if Wilma needs me to get some Dinoburgers, I can't be late)
AWD (Bedrock is icy and snowy in the wintertime)
Brake assist technology (in case any dinosaurs suddenly run into the street)
Smaller than the Acura MDX (now that Pebbles can drive herself around, we no longer need a mid-sized car)

The finances:
Wilma and I have $4 million+ in assets. We own our home outright. We have no debt. We have a very comfortable income.

New vs. used:
I considered buying a used late-model car, such as a CPO, but found that the savings are rather small -- generally on the order of 10 percent or so. It seems to me that it is a better value proposition to buy a new car.

The candidates so far:

Subaru Legacy sedan. It's relatively inexpensive and has everything I need. But Consumer Reports said, "Subaru dropped out of the top 10 reliable brands because of multiple problems in the Legacy sedan." http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reli ... rvey-2016/ I don't mean to be flippant, but buying this car would "live within your means" to an extreme. Price: About $31,000 plus tax.

Lexus NX. This is a reliable compact SUV that would probably run for 200,000 miles or more. It's sort of like a small version of the Acura MDX that I have liked so much.

Audi A4. This is a sporty car that I didn't expect to consider, but according to Consumer Reports, it is very reliable -- even more so than Hondas, which I find hard to believe. Anyway, it's a nice car and it's fun to drive. Price: About $46,000 plus tax. But will it spend a lot of time in the shop? To what extent should I care if the car is covered under an extended warranty?

Which one should I buy? Are there other cars I should be considering? Thank you in advance for your help!
You like acceleration? Go all electric. Lot's of savings on gas costs when you drive that much as well. The new Chevy Bolt is around 38k before the 7500k tax credit. It has great range and great acceleration. I drive a BMW i3 (the BEV version, all electric, not the range extender). Pricier, but I love it. It's surprisingly fast too. I find it hilarious when I effortlessly beat people off the line who aren't expecting it. Its really fun to drive.
Go for a tesla model s if you want to impress your friends with looks and crazy acceleration. All of the above come with tax savings and big time fuel savings if you drive a lot. I also feel they are cheaper to maintain because there are far fewer moving parts. I'm keeping tabs on my i3 to see if I'm right.
The car I will buy 4 years from now probably will be electric. For various reasons, I am not yet ready to make the jump.
Last edited by fredflinstone on Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:38 am

fredflinstone wrote:Here is a CPO 2015 Lexus NX 200t in my state that looks interesting:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventory ... =174297893

I believe it meets all of my requirements (AWD, brake assist, etc.). 29,000 miles. It is priced at $33K, which is $1,789 below market price, according to cargurus.com. The warranty would run through 2021, unlimited miles. the dealer has already reduced the price by $4,200.

If I offer $32K, maybe my offer would be accepted? This would get me a CPO Lexus for roughly the cost of a high-end Subaru Legacy.
then again, here is a brand new version of the same car for $38,670:
http://www.lexusofcoloradosprings.com/V ... 3012742933

The new version also has everything I need. I bet the dealer would come down a bit on price. Let's say $37K.

I find it hard to justify paying $32K or $33K for a 2-year old car with 29,000 miles on it when I can buy a brand new version of the same car for about $37K. The CPO may be certified but it is still a used car and thus is more likely to have mechanical problems.

User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:04 am

Does anyone know if I can haggle over the price of a new Lexus? Or is Lexus a no-haggle dealership?

User avatar
William4u
Posts: 1259
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by William4u » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:10 am

fredflinstone wrote:Does anyone know if I can haggle over the price of a new Lexus? Or is Lexus a no-haggle dealership?
They haggle. They are not like Saturn used to be.

lazydavid
Posts: 1202
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by lazydavid » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:20 am

Lexus has a small number (13?) of no-haggle dealerships. These are called "Lexus Plus". Generally you get a token discount off of MSRP, but nothing close to what you could negotiate on your own. But the vast majority are traditional dealerships.

Have you driven the NX? Most think it's too noisy, harsh, and cheaply finished to carry the Lexus name. Basically not enough of an upgrade from the Rav4 it's based on. If you're looking for an AWD Lexus, in my opinion you'd be better off looking at an RX (which it sounds like is bigger than you want) or ES (might be too big as well), or the compact IS, Lexus' 3-series fighter. The IS doesn't have much of a backseat (6-footers need not apply), but is a very engaging drive--moreso than the current BMW 3-series, which has gotten soft.

The Acura TLX is also available with AWD, is reportedly fun to drive (haven't sampled it myself), and has Honda reliability.

Smurf
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:48 am
Location: Midwest

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by Smurf » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:53 am

I wouldn't worry too much about reliability ratings. Within reason, these days they are all excellent. It's like saying the Olympic runner who came in last can't run. Personally, I wouldn't get a Lexus, Acura, or similar for a car to hand to a teenager in 4 years. However, since you have to drive it in the short term I also wouldn't put myself to sleep in a Corolla either. If it must be a sedan I'd get something that you don't see at every intersection like a Nissan Maxima. Although that's probably as much as a Lexus....

Ninnie
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:17 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by Ninnie » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:27 am

I test drove the Lexus NX. Loved it. It would be a great choice for you.

livesoft
Posts: 57205
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by livesoft » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:33 am

fredflinstone wrote:[...]
I believe it meets all of my requirements (AWD, brake assist, etc.). 29,000 miles. It is priced at $33K, which is $1,789 below market price, according to cargurus.com. The warranty would run through 2021, unlimited miles. the dealer has already reduced the price by $4,200.

[...]
I find it hard to justify paying $32K or $33K for a 2-year old car with 29,000 miles on it when I can buy a brand new version of the same car for about $37K. The CPO may be certified but it is still a used car and thus is more likely to have mechanical problems.
You have fallen for a sales ploy used by Lexus on use d cars. They are using the used car high price to get people to buy new cars. They initially price the used cars close to the price of new, so that customers looking for used think, "Oh, I can get new for almost the same price, so why buy used?"

Don't fall for the ploy. You can probably get that used one for $28K since the initial asking price is pretty fictitious.
This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

Mr.BB
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 10:10 am

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by Mr.BB » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:35 am

My wife used to have the Subaru Outback 3.6....that car was a bullet! Always felt very safe in it and it had a good engine. On one road trip I wasn't paying attention I was doing 90 miles per hour and never even realized it, thought I was only doing 70.
Unfortunately when it was time to get a new one we really didn't like the nearby dealership so we opted for the Kia Sorento, which is a really good car but it's not quite the Subaru.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

Vanguard Fan 1367
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:09 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by Vanguard Fan 1367 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:39 am

I know of a situation. Someone gave his daughter a Mercedes and she didn't like showing off like that and wanted a lesser car. I would consider the Subaru because the son is involved.

User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:46 am

lazydavid wrote:Lexus has a small number (13?) of no-haggle dealerships. These are called "Lexus Plus". Generally you get a token discount off of MSRP, but nothing close to what you could negotiate on your own. But the vast majority are traditional dealerships.

Have you driven the NX? Most think it's too noisy, harsh, and cheaply finished to carry the Lexus name. Basically not enough of an upgrade from the Rav4 it's based on. If you're looking for an AWD Lexus, in my opinion you'd be better off looking at an RX (which it sounds like is bigger than you want) or ES (might be too big as well), or the compact IS, Lexus' 3-series fighter. The IS doesn't have much of a backseat (6-footers need not apply), but is a very engaging drive--moreso than the current BMW 3-series, which has gotten soft.

The Acura TLX is also available with AWD, is reportedly fun to drive (haven't sampled it myself), and has Honda reliability.
thank you. This is quite helpful. I tried out the Acura TLX and liked it, but it has surprisingly poor reliability ratings from Consumer Reports. http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reli ... -by-class/

I test drove the NX. I thought it was fine.

The RX and ES are too big.

I would like to take a look at the IS. You really think it handles better than a BMW? Wow.

User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

livesoft wrote:
fredflinstone wrote:[...]
I believe it meets all of my requirements (AWD, brake assist, etc.). 29,000 miles. It is priced at $33K, which is $1,789 below market price, according to cargurus.com. The warranty would run through 2021, unlimited miles. the dealer has already reduced the price by $4,200.

[...]
I find it hard to justify paying $32K or $33K for a 2-year old car with 29,000 miles on it when I can buy a brand new version of the same car for about $37K. The CPO may be certified but it is still a used car and thus is more likely to have mechanical problems.
You have fallen for a sales ploy used by Lexus on use d cars. They are using the used car high price to get people to buy new cars. They initially price the used cars close to the price of new, so that customers looking for used think, "Oh, I can get new for almost the same price, so why buy used?"

Don't fall for the ploy. You can probably get that used one for $28K since the initial asking price is pretty fictitious.
can anyone else weigh in on this? The dealership has already reduced the price of the CPO by more than 4K. I can't see them going much lower.

User avatar
fredflinstone
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Bedrock

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by fredflinstone » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:55 am

Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote:I know of a situation. Someone gave his daughter a Mercedes and she didn't like showing off like that and wanted a lesser car. I would consider the Subaru because the son is involved.
I like the Subaru but I feel that the Lexus might be more reliable. If I can choose between a CPO Lexus RX (30,000 miles) at $31K and a new Subaru Legacy for $31K, I feel the Lexus is a slightly better deal.

KT785
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by KT785 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:24 am

fredflinstone wrote:
Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote:I know of a situation. Someone gave his daughter a Mercedes and she didn't like showing off like that and wanted a lesser car. I would consider the Subaru because the son is involved.
I like the Subaru but I feel that the Lexus might be more reliable. If I can choose between a CPO Lexus RX (30,000 miles) at $31K and a new Subaru Legacy for $31K, I feel the Lexus is a slightly better deal.
I got a fully loaded Outback for $31,000 and looked at the Legacy at the time (November/December). You can likely pick one up for mid to high $20s pretty easily for a Limited with EyeSight--cheaper if you want a Premium instead of the Limited.

Check out TrueCar to get an idea of what people are actually paying and then use the price shopping methods often outlined here on Bogleheads to have dealerships compete on price.

lazydavid
Posts: 1202
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by lazydavid » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:31 am

fredflinstone wrote:I would like to take a look at the IS. You really think it handles better than a BMW? Wow.
About on par with my E90, and better than the current F30. Same story in the next size class up. The current Lexus GS outhandles the F10 5-series, but not the prior E60.

Vanguard Fan 1367
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:09 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by Vanguard Fan 1367 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:42 am

fredflinstone wrote:
Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote:I know of a situation. Someone gave his daughter a Mercedes and she didn't like showing off like that and wanted a lesser car. I would consider the Subaru because the son is involved.
I like the Subaru but I feel that the Lexus might be more reliable. If I can choose between a CPO Lexus RX (30,000 miles) at $31K and a new Subaru Legacy for $31K, I feel the Lexus is a slightly better deal.

Sounds like a great plan!

User avatar
htdrag11
Posts: 971
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:22 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by htdrag11 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:35 am

Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote:
fredflinstone wrote:
Vanguard Fan 1367 wrote:I know of a situation. Someone gave his daughter a Mercedes and she didn't like showing off like that and wanted a lesser car. I would consider the Subaru because the son is involved.
I like the Subaru but I feel that the Lexus might be more reliable. If I can choose between a CPO Lexus RX (30,000 miles) at $31K and a new Subaru Legacy for $31K, I feel the Lexus is a slightly better deal.

Sounds like a great plan!
A 2-year old CPO Lexus RX should be around the low $30k, depending on mileage. The Legacy would be a better driver's car though. DW loves the RX's ventilated seat. So for the next car, that is a must have option.

WhiteMaxima
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by WhiteMaxima » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:39 am

Audi A4 2.0L Tsi Quattto. I have an A5 which is a coupe version of A4. I like the AWD handling, gas economy, and style of typical Audi.

stats99
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by stats99 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:45 am

Subaru Forester with eyesight, about $27k. I believe highly recommended by CR.
I have 2017, Premium, rides great, AWD, great MPG, may give to daughter in 4 years.

ToastCrunchToast
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by ToastCrunchToast » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:01 am

You may want to decide which type of car you want first. These are all very different choices, reflective of different needs. Do you want comfortable room for 4-5 passengers, with no need for much cargo room? Get a sedan. Don't even need that much room for passengers? Get a coupe or sportscar. Need the cargo room? Consider an SUV. Obvious stuff, but you do seem to be putting the car(t) before the horse.

As an aside, I will never forget what the "Car Talk" guys had to say about Lexus. Paraphrasing:

A Lexus is just a Toyota with a $15,000 "L" on it.

Maverick3320
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 2:59 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by Maverick3320 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:14 am

fredflinstone wrote:OK, guys, I asked you for some advice 7 years ago and you told me to get an Acura MDX. I did so and it has been a great car. 116,000 miles so far with no problems whatsoever. My daughter Pebbles turned 16 this week and I gave her the car for her birthday. So now I need a new car.

Background:
I drive about 15,000 miles per year. In the past I've owned cars for about 8 years before getting a new one. The car I plan to buy now will likely be handed down to my son in about 4 years. I don't require a lot of bells and whistles, but I'm not going to lie -- I have nothing against a car that looks good and can accelerate.

The requirements:
Reliability, reliability, and reliability (if Wilma needs me to get some Dinoburgers, I can't be late)
AWD (Bedrock is icy and snowy in the wintertime)
Brake assist technology (in case any dinosaurs suddenly run into the street)
Smaller than the Acura MDX (now that Pebbles can drive herself around, we no longer need a mid-sized car)

The finances:
Wilma and I have $4 million+ in assets. We own our home outright. We have no debt. We have a very comfortable income.

New vs. used:
I considered buying a used late-model car, such as a CPO, but found that the savings are rather small -- generally on the order of 10 percent or so. It seems to me that it is a better value proposition to buy a new car.

The candidates so far:

Subaru Legacy sedan. It's relatively inexpensive and has everything I need. But Consumer Reports said, "Subaru dropped out of the top 10 reliable brands because of multiple problems in the Legacy sedan." http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reli ... rvey-2016/ I don't mean to be flippant, but buying this car would "live within your means" to an extreme. Price: About $31,000 plus tax.

Lexus NX. This is a reliable compact SUV that would probably run for 200,000 miles or more. It's sort of like a small version of the Acura MDX that I have liked so much.

Audi A4. This is a sporty car that I didn't expect to consider, but according to Consumer Reports, it is very reliable -- even more so than Hondas, which I find hard to believe. Anyway, it's a nice car and it's fun to drive. Price: About $46,000 plus tax. But will it spend a lot of time in the shop? To what extent should I care if the car is covered under an extended warranty?

Which one should I buy? Are there other cars I should be considering? Thank you in advance for your help!
FWIW, I purchased a new 2016 Legacy Premium 2.5 with the eyesight safety package, with taxes, for $25,001 last year. 31k seems a bit high unless you are adding every option and not including any type of discount. I now have 20,000 miles on it (long daily commute) and the only reliability issue is a pesky passenger side window that doesn't always follow directions.

User avatar
weltschmerz
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:17 pm
Location: SoCal

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by weltschmerz » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:18 am

ToastCrunchToast wrote:As an aside, I will never forget what the "Car Talk" guys had to say about Lexus. Paraphrasing:

A Lexus is just a Toyota with a $15,000 "L" on it.
Doesn't the Lexus have many refinements such as better soundproofing, ventilated seats, and other niceties? Is it worth $15k...probably not, but it surely would be nice to have. Perhaps owners of both Toyota and Lexus could comment...

The Wizard
Posts: 11102
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by The Wizard » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:19 am

I'd tend to recommend a 2018 Mustang, with 10-speed transmission and the Ecoboost engine, not the V-8. Order it with all the modern safety gizmos.
Your choice whether to go hardtop or convertible...
Attempted new signature...

Jack FFR1846
Posts: 5854
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:05 am

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:24 am

Alfa Romeo Giulia AWD.

Worth looking at. I don't know reliability (but don't hold a lot of hope for this car....but likely more fun than anything mentioned here....including the GT-R.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

surveyor
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:05 am

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by surveyor » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:25 am

If you're giving it to your kid in 4 years I'd say get a 2017 Mazda CX-5.

dbr
Posts: 24131
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:50 am

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by dbr » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:52 am

fredflinstone wrote: The requirements:
Reliability, reliability, and reliability (if Wilma needs me to get some Dinoburgers, I can't be late)

It seems to me the existing data is convincing that the only choice given this criterion is some model of Lexus.

AWD (Bedrock is icy and snowy in the wintertime)
Brake assist technology (in case any dinosaurs suddenly run into the street)
Smaller than the Acura MDX (now that Pebbles can drive herself around, we no longer need a mid-sized car)

The Lexus NX is a tad smaller and comes in AWD. I don't know what you mean by brake assist technology but the NX will surely have whatever the current technology is. I guess that pretty well narrows it down, it seems to me.

WhiteMaxima
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by WhiteMaxima » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:08 pm

A Lexus is basically a Toyota. Quiet, smooth and very reliable. Toyota driving is very boring.

dbr
Posts: 24131
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:50 am

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by dbr » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:10 pm

WhiteMaxima wrote:A Lexus is basically a Toyota. Quiet, smooth and very reliable. Toyota driving is very boring.
I think the OP wants a boring car. One more reason for the Lexus.

WhiteMaxima
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Bogleheads: Please help me pick a new car

Post by WhiteMaxima » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:22 pm

A Yota Camry LE I4 CVT, super easy drive and reliable. No need of AWD. Get self a set of snow tire.Mount them on a set of steel rim. 2017 model on sale now for $18000. 2018 model year is coming soon.

Post Reply