BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

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yetanotherboglehead
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BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by yetanotherboglehead » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:00 pm

I am considering buying a 2017 BMW X5 later this year. My preference is to buy new (cash) and use it for at least 6-8 years. My other car is a Honda which I bought new ~8 years ago and has served me very well (90K miles with zero reliability issues apart from regular maintenance). I will be using the X5 mostly on weekends and I expect to average 5-8K miles per year. The internet forums (e.g. Bimmerfest) tell me that I should not expect the BMW to be anywhere close to a Honda in terms of long term reliability.

My primary reasons for buying new are -
  • - BMW warranty is now limited to 3 years/36K miles.
    - Good "deals" for used BMW X5 appear to be restricted to those that are out of warranty with mileage more than 50K miles (suggesting aggressive use).
Questions:
BMW X5 owners (current or past):
  • - Can I expect higher than average reliability due to my low mileage usage?
    - Is there still a good reason to buy used or lease (given my plan to drive to 6-8 years at least)
    - If you bought new from a dealer, how close were you able to get to "cost to dealership" : i.e (0.93 * MSRP + $500 MACO + $180 Training + $995 Destination/Handling + Taxes)
    - Anything else you wish you knew before you bought a BMW.
Thanks a bunch! :)

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by yetanotherboglehead » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:02 pm

Oops! I posted this to the wrong forum. Could the admin please move this to "Personal Consumer Issues"

Dilbydog
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by Dilbydog » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:30 pm

The DW has a 2016 X5 xdrive35. Our annual mileage is comparable to your estimates. We've had zero problems with the SUV, DW LOVES it, more so than the MDX she had before. We also have a 3 series with the same n55 engine. In 70k miles it's had a caliper hang up, which was repaired under warranty. From a reliability standpoint I wouldn't worry, especially with such a low mileage expectation.

If you can hold out for a while, the 2018 are a completely new frame and engine. Well, in fairness the b series engine is being used in other BMW's but it will be a first for the X series. So I would expect to see some excellent deals on CPO'd lease returns, or 2017's that are still on a lot. I'd bet the 2015, 2016 lease residuals won't hold up, and BMW will need to discount the lease returns to move built up product.

I'd say go for it... but I'm obviously biased.

PS. We paid 93% of MSRP, plus sales tax. License fee is paid directly by the owner to the states dmv

yetanotherboglehead
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by yetanotherboglehead » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:27 pm

Thanks dilbydog! That's useful info!

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GreatOdinsRaven
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by GreatOdinsRaven » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:12 pm

2015 F15 35d purchased new, still under warranty. Have had a camera problem related to the pedestrian warning system. Just the part was $1200. Covered under warranty. But that didn't fix the problem. Required another $1000 repair also covered under warranty. Tires were run flat. Loud. Very loud. Most local tire repair shops would not patch them when we encountered nails. AWD SAV. Once the tires wore down enough and I got another nail I had to buy 4 new (non runflat tires). Well over $1000. Tires had 10s of thousands of miles left on them...

I would buy again. Would never buy pre-owned unless it came with a BMW certified warranty... and even then I probably wouldn't buy used. Very expensive to repair.

We've had Hondas and Acuras before. From a reliability standpoint the Honda products are superior. From the comfort, driving pleasure and performance standpoint the BMW has been amazing.

Avoid the V8 biturbo. My mechanic friend sees those often.

The diesel has superior torque, MPG, responsiveness and pep compared to the small V6 gas engine. We'd buy the diesel again in a heartbeat. Have driven gas V6 loaners. Not impressed compared with our diesel. The V8 biturbo is still the superior driver but the reliability issues are insurmountable IMHO. Good luck. If money is no option get the performance handling package. It's INCREDIBLE.
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by BUBear29 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:25 am

2012 X5 35D owner here. No issues and only routine maintenance with 12k-15k miles a year. Fabulous vehicle and the diesel in worth its weight in gold.
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by yetanotherboglehead » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:26 am

Thanks greatodinsraven and bubear29. I had not considered the diesel version but now I'm tempted :)

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by peterinjapan » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:30 am

I drive diesel Mazdas in Japan. I swear by them. 25% more power and 15% less cost, in Japan at least.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by denovo » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:20 am

yetanotherboglehead wrote: BMW X5 owners (current or past):
  • -
    - If you bought new from a dealer, how close were you able to get to "cost to dealership" : i.e (0.93 * MSRP + $500 MACO + $180 Training + $995 Destination/Handling + Taxes)
Thanks a bunch! :)
Not a BMW owner, although I did have the misfortune of driving a German car in a previous life. You're totally going the wrong way in getting a good deal. Invoice price is totally useless as a matter of figuring out cost to dealership because of things like dealer holdback, and manufacturer to dealer incentives that are ever-changing and sometimes national or regional in nature.

I assume you don't bother trying to create formulas for how much Home Depot paid for a grill you want to buy. If they offer it for cheaper than Lowe's or Costco, you buy it from Home Depot, for all you know they could be losing money on the deal, that's not your concern either way. Some dealer may be at the end of the month and near a benchmark to get a huge rebate from BMW so they may be making $10,000 to sell you a $30,000 car, while another dealer could be selling you the same car for $32,000 and only pocketing $5,000. I presume you'd buy from the former dealer and not the latter, right?


viewtopic.php?t=124638 See this thread.

Since this looks like a secondary car that you're not in a hurry to buy, there's usually better deals to be found in the winter which is a low season for car dealers, also when they're getting rid of last year models and want to make way on their lot for the newest year models.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by Valuethinker » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:12 am

peterinjapan wrote:I drive diesel Mazdas in Japan. I swear by them. 25% more power and 15% less cost, in Japan at least.
Does Japan allow diesels?

The reason I ask is that Japan is mega conscious of air quality. Hence the introduction of, and success of, hybrid cars-- Toyota drove it.

In Europe we went heavily for diesels (more than half of new cars sold, in some markets 70%) and it turns out to have been a mistake. The car companies were rigging the tests (it looks like it's not only VW). The NOX & particulate problems just don't seem to be fixable.

I expect passenger diesels to be illegal in European cities within 20-25 years, or even sooner.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by sambb » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:14 am

I havent had too many problems with several BMWs, and the x5 is a great one to drive. Have fun, and yes maintenance is higher, but so are the driving dynamics. Consider a lease for 3 years with 10k miles per year.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by Valuethinker » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:19 am

yetanotherboglehead wrote:Thanks greatodinsraven and bubear29. I had not considered the diesel version but now I'm tempted :)
I don't know what the situation is with air pollution? Post VW? The performance of VW diesels was using bypass software. If the software detected a testbed run, it significantly reduced engine performance relative to "normal".

It appears that VW was not alone in doing this from what I have read. Therefore, when the problem is "fixed" i.e. the engine meets the emission standards in normal running, the performance will be significantly worse.

Besides investigating where this is going (because I am vague on where this has gotten to in North America) if I lived in a N American city with significant air quality problems (California, Denver, New York etc.) I wouldn't buy a diesel. Because within 10-15 years, likely, diesels for passenger vehicles will be illegal or heavily restricted -- thus killing resale value long before then.

I live in London, UK, which has the dirtiest air of any major European city. I would not now buy a diesel but only a petrol-engine or car (and would probably aim for a hybrid) because I can see where this is going-- diesels will be restricted in London with 15 years.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by Valuethinker » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:20 am

sambb wrote:I havent had too many problems with several BMWs, and the x5 is a great one to drive. Have fun, and yes maintenance is higher, but so are the driving dynamics. Consider a lease for 3 years with 10k miles per year.
The speed of technological change on cars is now so fast that I think there are advantages to leasing, and I never thought I'd hear myself say that.

Also my friends in North America seem to be able to get leases at crazy low rates (1.9% APR etc.). I mean low enough that it's worth thinking about.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by bigcmagor » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:09 am

I had two beefs with our now long gone X 5. First is the oil change interval when BMW is paying the bill. They wouldn't do the oil change until the oil monitor was down to 10% oil life and the oil change light came on. This turned out to be 14,000 miles for the way we drove it. I figured they must know what they are doing, but it was burning at least a quart in between changes by the time we unloaded it @105,000 miles. If I had to do it again, I would change the oil at my expense @ 5,000-6,000 miles.

Second is the first post-warranty pit stop where more than $4,500 worth of repairs were recommended. It apparently didn't need a thing at the last scheduled pit stop when they were on the hook for the bill. Aside from feeling like a cash teat for the service department, we enjoyed the car.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by Malinois000 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:41 am

I purchased a 2008 X5 brand new and paid cash as you are considering. We still own it today and it has 116k miles. It has been a great vehicle. Our kids were very involved in youth athletics at the time so that was our go to transportation all over the Northeast. We lived in Philly at the time. The BMW is warranty is nice in that you basically pay nothing for the first couple of years. However, once the warranty is over the repair cost can be quite high. We just paid $4,500 earlier this year for a fairly major repair. However, I would highly recommend given what you are planning. We have no plans of replacing our anytime soon.

Hope that helps.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by Cipro » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:54 am

I bought a 2013 X5 BMW as the 2014 models were introduced - paid about $54K for car that had MSRP of 64k. Have about 80,000 miles so far. Car has been quite good but routine maintenance at dealership is very expensive. You pay a premium for the BMW brand.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:59 am

yetanotherboglehead wrote:Oops! I posted this to the wrong forum. Could the admin please move this to "Personal Consumer Issues"
This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (car).

To get our attention sooner, report the post using the "!" in the top right corner of the posts. One of the reasons is "Wrong forum." (Thanks to the member who reported the post on your behalf.)
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by BUBear29 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:09 am

As a follow up, once the vehicle is our of warranty, you should never find yourself at the BMW dealership/service center again. Find a good local shop that specializes in European cars/bmw's and you won't have $4500 bills like mentioned above. I have never paid that much combined on all my vehicle service visits.
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by matjen » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:17 am

OP, are you aware that the BMW X5 is an extremely old platform/design? 2017 will be the last model year before an entirely new X5 comes out for 2018. Heck, if you are buying in late calendar year 2017 then you may well be buying a 2018 model depending on release date. In any case, if it is a 2017 model I would be demanding a very good price.
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by tacster » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:47 am

My primary reasons for buying new are -
  • - BMW warranty is now limited to 3 years/36K miles.
    - Good "deals" for used BMW X5 appear to be restricted to those that are out of warranty with mileage more than 50K miles (suggesting aggressive use).
Just for clarity, the BMW Basic Warranty (covering repair work) is still 4 years/50k miles. It's the Maintenance Warranty (free oil changes) that is now 3 years/36k miles.
INSERT PITHY QUOTE HERE

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by GreatOdinsRaven » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:08 am

matjen wrote:OP, are you aware that the BMW X5 is an extremely old platform/design? 2017 will be the last model year before an entirely new X5 comes out for 2018. Heck, if you are buying in late calendar year 2017 then you may well be buying a 2018 model depending on release date. In any case, if it is a 2017 model I would be demanding a very good price.
I wasn't aware a new design was coming out. The current design came out in 2014. It's only four years old. Are you referring to the mid model refresh or an entirely new model?
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by Dilbydog » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:48 am

GreatOdinsRaven wrote:
matjen wrote:OP, are you aware that the BMW X5 is an extremely old platform/design? 2017 will be the last model year before an entirely new X5 comes out for 2018. Heck, if you are buying in late calendar year 2017 then you may well be buying a 2018 model depending on release date. In any case, if it is a 2017 model I would be demanding a very good price.
I wasn't aware a new design was coming out. The current design came out in 2014. It's only four years old. Are you referring to the mid model refresh or an entirely new model?
The 2018 will be an entirely new model. The F15, current X5, will not see a LCI but rather will be replaced by a new modular platform that will be shared with the upcoming X7. I believe BMW is calling it CLAR but I'm too lazy to look at the moment. The B58 engine (335 hp) will also replace the current N55 (300hp). Note: assumptions made on the B58 output as it has varying HP from model to model right now. 335-355 ifrc

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by GreatOdinsRaven » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:59 am

Dilbydog wrote:
GreatOdinsRaven wrote:
matjen wrote:OP, are you aware that the BMW X5 is an extremely old platform/design? 2017 will be the last model year before an entirely new X5 comes out for 2018. Heck, if you are buying in late calendar year 2017 then you may well be buying a 2018 model depending on release date. In any case, if it is a 2017 model I would be demanding a very good price.
I wasn't aware a new design was coming out. The current design came out in 2014. It's only four years old. Are you referring to the mid model refresh or an entirely new model?
The 2018 will be an entirely new model. The F15, current X5, will not see a LCI but rather will be replaced by a new modular platform that will be shared with the upcoming X7. I believe BMW is calling it CLAR but I'm too lazy to look at the moment. The B58 engine (335 hp) will also replace the current N55 (300hp). Note: assumptions made on the B58 output as it has varying HP from model to model right now. 335-355 ifrc

Wow! I'm shocked. I knew the X7 was coming out (they were talking about it in 2015 when we took factory delivery. Had no idea the X5 would have a concurrent redesign. I'm not familiar with the engine model numbers. Are they still going to offer the diesel? Same V8 engine? The torque on the V8 was amazing but my mechanic convinced me not to buy it.
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by matjen » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:14 am

Not sure about a diesel option. This article doesn't mention it at all which is a bad sign if that is of interest. It does go into the platform change. Although current model came out in 2014 the platform is actually significantly older. This will be a big upgrade.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1028 ... -and-video
The third-gen X5 was introduced for the 2014 model year but its underpinnings are shared with the second-gen X5 on sale since the 2007 model year. This fourth-gen model, which we’re currently expecting to arrive in late 2017, as a 2018 model, won’t have anything in common with its predecessors.
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by GreatOdinsRaven » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:37 am

matjen wrote:Not sure about a diesel option. This article doesn't mention it at all which is a bad sign if that is of interest. It does go into the platform change. Although current model came out in 2014 the platform is actually significantly older. This will be a big upgrade.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1028 ... -and-video
The third-gen X5 was introduced for the 2014 model year but its underpinnings are shared with the second-gen X5 on sale since the 2007 model year. This fourth-gen model, which we’re currently expecting to arrive in late 2017, as a 2018 model, won’t have anything in common with its predecessors.

Thanks for the update. Looks like there might be a diesel upgrade too:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/06/17/bmw-x ... s-in-2018/

http://www.trucktrend.com/news/1705-spi ... d-2019-x7/

I have no idea if these sites are credible.
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by yetanotherboglehead » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:20 pm

I am still perusing all the advice from thread (thanks everyone!) but I didn't see any information outside this thread about big changes for 2018 X5. Here's a post from Bimmerfest about the 2018 X5 (due in Sept) that suggests changes are minor (i.e no generation change).

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showth ... p?t=983614 :confused .

On the other hand X3 is definitely getting a generation upgrade for 2018

Thanks!

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by htdrag11 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:34 pm

We got on the waiting list for the 1st gen X5 3.0; it was either 2000 or 2001 model since the larger engine came out 1st. Being a 1st year car, we expected problems. There were all covered under warranty. The straw that broke the camel's back was when the 1st repair/maintenance occurred.

Took it to my own mechanic; the battery (I was not handy) was replaced for $300, parts and labor. That was a rude awakening. We slowly weaned ourselves out of 3 BMW's (the other 3 series were more reliable but still had high repair cost). If never owned one, do get one so you could get that out of your system.

I admit it was during the time that I need to keep up with the Joneses. It was great for my ego and they were indeed fun. Now I'm OK with my 2012 RX350 with 55k miles, hassle free but boring as hell. DW loves the ventilated front seats and its quietness. There was no more sporty ride either. Our daughter's Mazda3 is a lot more fun that most SUVs.

Enjoy life and go for it; it's a privilege to pay for the repairs. :mrgreen:

BTW, I found the 2017 Mazda CX-5 as a peasant's version of the X5, at a much lower cost and getting much better return on investment. It does not stroke your ego though.

I would only lease a German car, not purchasing myself. Have fun. :beer

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by htdrag11 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:20 pm

This is a good video comparing the BMW X1, Audi Q3, MB GLA, Lexus NX-T and the Mazda CX-5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLEZuUs9M8A

You could skip to the 21 minute mark to hear their views about "premium" brands vs. lowly Mazda.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by matjen » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:43 pm

yetanotherboglehead wrote:I am still perusing all the advice from thread (thanks everyone!) but I didn't see any information outside this thread about big changes for 2018 X5. Here's a post from Bimmerfest about the 2018 X5 (due in Sept) that suggests changes are minor (i.e no generation change).

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showth ... p?t=983614 :confused .

On the other hand X3 is definitely getting a generation upgrade for 2018

Thanks!
Fair enough (if correct), but my point remains you will be buying the very last of an old platform. At the latest the 2019 X5 will be completely new and out in say late summer next year. Nothing wrong with buying it if that is what you want. I bought a loaded 2015 X1 knowing that the 2016 X1 would be completely different...in a bad way for me. Going from a RWD biased car to a FWD biased car. Adding electric steering to replace hydraulic. The 2015 models are much better driver's cars. the 2016 and later are more luxurious and a bit more spacious in the back seat. I preferred the former.
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by munemaker » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:50 pm

bigcmagor wrote:I had two beefs with our now long gone X 5. First is the oil change interval when BMW is paying the bill. They wouldn't do the oil change until the oil monitor was down to 10% oil life and the oil change light came on. This turned out to be 14,000 miles for the way we drove it. I figured they must know what they are doing, but it was burning at least a quart in between changes by the time we unloaded it @105,000 miles. If I had to do it again, I would change the oil at my expense @ 5,000-6,000 miles...
So what's your beef about the oil change? Why would BMW (or you for that matter) want to change your oil more often than is recommended by the manufacturer? And...consumption of 1 quart of oil in 14,000 miles...negligible. What would you gain by changing your oil at 5,000 miles?

I am just wondering...I have a Honda. The Maintenance Minder says to change at 12,000 miles. I usually change around 10,000 miles. I add a little oil along the way. I don't keep track, but it is probably 1 to 1.5 quarts over 10,000 miles. So what? Synthetic oil is what? maybe $6/quart or so? BTW, my Honda now has 200,000 miles on it and is still running good.

Trying to understand your thoughts on the oil change interval.

Thanks!

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by Valuethinker » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:24 pm

GreatOdinsRaven wrote:
matjen wrote:Not sure about a diesel option. This article doesn't mention it at all which is a bad sign if that is of interest. It does go into the platform change. Although current model came out in 2014 the platform is actually significantly older. This will be a big upgrade.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1028 ... -and-video
The third-gen X5 was introduced for the 2014 model year but its underpinnings are shared with the second-gen X5 on sale since the 2007 model year. This fourth-gen model, which we’re currently expecting to arrive in late 2017, as a 2018 model, won’t have anything in common with its predecessors.

Thanks for the update. Looks like there might be a diesel upgrade too:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/06/17/bmw-x ... s-in-2018/

http://www.trucktrend.com/news/1705-spi ... d-2019-x7/

I have no idea if these sites are credible.
I don't know how they can offer a diesel without significantly downpowering the vehicle to meet emission standards.

I may not know enough about the emissions control options used in North American versions of these cars.

But I would say this: it has hit the fan on diesel emssions. Really. Hit. The fan.

From everything I can gather from a non-specialist read, diesel technology for passenger cars is now terminal. It can't meet the air quality standards that are going to be required. In that the NOX standard can be met in the USA with urea technology & SCR, but it adds complexity and cost.

Given NOX levels in major European cities, diesel is likely dead there (although the European manufacturers will fight this tooth and nail, they won't be able to hold off forever-- it will simply accelerate the movement towards vehicles being restricted to zero emission vehicles (at the tailpipe)).

Given the air pollution issues in places like California and Colorado, I can't imagine this will stay off the the desk of American environmental control bodies and legislators for forever.

Americans have been significantly more hawkish on emission standards than Europe. In particular NOX. I can't imagine that that situation will reverse for long. And PM 2.5 is the new frontier in air pollution control-- and the medical evidence seems even worse than we had imagined.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... pe/528990/
“I'm sure the levels of particulate matter and nitrogen oxide as well would be much, much lower in European cities if they didn't have the incentives they had for diesel cars,” said Helotonio Carvalho, a molecular biologist at Brazil’s Federal University of Pernambuco, Recife. He added, “We are going in a direction where diesel cars probably won't have a place.” Carvalho has written in the medical journal The Lancet that 400,000 people died prematurely from all the various sources of air pollution in Europe in 2011. I asked him how many deaths can be attributed specifically to Europe’s elevated rate of diesels, relative to, for example, North America or to his native Brazil, where diesel passenger cars haven’t been allowed as a matter of policy. He told me that the number is in the “hundreds of thousands.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -emissions
Health experts lambast ‘deceitful’ carmakers as data suggests 97% of vehicles fail to meet NOx emissions standards in real-world conditions
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/01/ ... s-dementia
Some of the health risks of inhaling fine and ultrafine particles are well-established, such as asthma, lung cancer, and, most recently, heart disease. But a growing body of evidence suggests that exposure can also harm the brain, accelerating cognitive aging, and may even increase risk of Alzheimer’s disease and other forms of dementia.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -even-more

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a1 ... esel-dead/

http://blog.caranddriver.com/everything ... s-scandal/

So one is talking about being able to legally drive these things for 10-15 years, maybe. Which means depreciation and resale values will get hit a lot sooner.

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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by smackboy1 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:29 pm

Just bought a 2017 X5 xDrive 40e. It is 8 months 14,000 miles old. I detailed my negotiation and purchase experiences on this board:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=199965&p=3074340#p3074340

The internal factory code for the current X5 is F15, of which 2014 was the first MY. The new G05 X5 is due to be released as a 2019 MY (likely released in fall 2018). I would expect the 2018 MY X5 to be released in fall 2017, so in the next few months BMW will cease 2017 MY production and changeover to 2018 MY. Dealership will be looking to get rid of excess 2017 MY inventory. Not a bad time to be shopping if you don't mind owning "last year's" model.

Most BMW (and European car) cognoscenti will agree that you do not want to buy the first model year of a brand new model if reliability is high on the priority list. The F15 platform has been around for a while, but BMWs are not going to be as reliable as Hondas. We've had a few minor issues with our X5, but nothing major. We've owned almost all the major luxury European marques and BMW is about average for reliability so far and definitely not the worst. We're very happy with our X5 and would recommend it to anyone.

The 2 best forums for F15 X5 are:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=179

http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=507

The one big tip I would give anyone before buying, especially if you have never owned a BMW, is to ask other owners about the pros and cons of the build options. Options are expensive and you want to make sure they are worth it to you. For example: some people order the M Sport package without knowing that it's almost entirely cosmetic with no performance upgrades. Another example: some people skip the Active Cruise Control (dealerships rarely stock cars w/ ACC) not realizing that the ACC radar increases the safety performance of the automatic frontal collision mitigation system vs. cars without ACC.
Last edited by smackboy1 on Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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GreatOdinsRaven
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by GreatOdinsRaven » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Valuethinker wrote:
GreatOdinsRaven wrote:
matjen wrote:Not sure about a diesel option. This article doesn't mention it at all which is a bad sign if that is of interest. It does go into the platform change. Although current model came out in 2014 the platform is actually significantly older. This will be a big upgrade.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1028 ... -and-video
The third-gen X5 was introduced for the 2014 model year but its underpinnings are shared with the second-gen X5 on sale since the 2007 model year. This fourth-gen model, which we’re currently expecting to arrive in late 2017, as a 2018 model, won’t have anything in common with its predecessors.

Thanks for the update. Looks like there might be a diesel upgrade too:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/06/17/bmw-x ... s-in-2018/

http://www.trucktrend.com/news/1705-spi ... d-2019-x7/

I have no idea if these sites are credible.
I don't know how they can offer a diesel without significantly downpowering the vehicle to meet emission standards.

I may not know enough about the emissions control options used in North American versions of these cars.

But I would say this: it has hit the fan on diesel emssions. Really. Hit. The fan.

From everything I can gather from a non-specialist read, diesel technology for passenger cars is now terminal. It can't meet the air quality standards that are going to be required. In that the NOX standard can be met in the USA with urea technology & SCR, but it adds complexity and cost.

Given NOX levels in major European cities, diesel is likely dead there (although the European manufacturers will fight this tooth and nail, they won't be able to hold off forever-- it will simply accelerate the movement towards vehicles being restricted to zero emission vehicles (at the tailpipe)).

Given the air pollution issues in places like California and Colorado, I can't imagine this will stay off the the desk of American environmental control bodies and legislators for forever.

Americans have been significantly more hawkish on emission standards than Europe. In particular NOX. I can't imagine that that situation will reverse for long. And PM 2.5 is the new frontier in air pollution control-- and the medical evidence seems even worse than we had imagined.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... pe/528990/
“I'm sure the levels of particulate matter and nitrogen oxide as well would be much, much lower in European cities if they didn't have the incentives they had for diesel cars,” said Helotonio Carvalho, a molecular biologist at Brazil’s Federal University of Pernambuco, Recife. He added, “We are going in a direction where diesel cars probably won't have a place.” Carvalho has written in the medical journal The Lancet that 400,000 people died prematurely from all the various sources of air pollution in Europe in 2011. I asked him how many deaths can be attributed specifically to Europe’s elevated rate of diesels, relative to, for example, North America or to his native Brazil, where diesel passenger cars haven’t been allowed as a matter of policy. He told me that the number is in the “hundreds of thousands.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -emissions
Health experts lambast ‘deceitful’ carmakers as data suggests 97% of vehicles fail to meet NOx emissions standards in real-world conditions
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/01/ ... s-dementia
Some of the health risks of inhaling fine and ultrafine particles are well-established, such as asthma, lung cancer, and, most recently, heart disease. But a growing body of evidence suggests that exposure can also harm the brain, accelerating cognitive aging, and may even increase risk of Alzheimer’s disease and other forms of dementia.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -even-more

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a1 ... esel-dead/

http://blog.caranddriver.com/everything ... s-scandal/

So one is talking about being able to legally drive these things for 10-15 years, maybe. Which means depreciation and resale values will get hit a lot sooner.

I think you're serious and that's concerning to me. seriously. Life's too short for this.
"The greatest enemies of the equity investor are expenses and emotions." -John C. Bogle, Little Book of Common Sense Investing. | | "Winter is coming." Lord Eddard Stark.

bigcmagor
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by bigcmagor » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:11 pm

munemaker wrote:
bigcmagor wrote:I had two beefs with our now long gone X 5. First is the oil change interval when BMW is paying the bill. They wouldn't do the oil change until the oil monitor was down to 10% oil life and the oil change light came on. This turned out to be 14,000 miles for the way we drove it. I figured they must know what they are doing, but it was burning at least a quart in between changes by the time we unloaded it @105,000 miles. If I had to do it again, I would change the oil at my expense @ 5,000-6,000 miles...
So what's your beef about the oil change? Why would BMW (or you for that matter) want to change your oil more often than is recommended by the manufacturer? And...consumption of 1 quart of oil in 14,000 miles...negligible. What would you gain by changing your oil at 5,000 miles?

I am just wondering...I have a Honda. The Maintenance Minder says to change at 12,000 miles. I usually change around 10,000 miles. I add a little oil along the way. I don't keep track, but it is probably 1 to 1.5 quarts over 10,000 miles. So what? Synthetic oil is what? maybe $6/quart or so? BTW, my Honda now has 200,000 miles on it and is still running good.

Trying to understand your thoughts on the oil change interval.

Thanks!
On all of my other vehicles, I use Mobil 1 at 5,000 intervals. None of my other vehicles consume oil. The 14,000 mile interval was too long for engine preservation, especially if you plan to run the vehicle 100,000+ miles. My opinion based on my experience. YMMV.

munemaker
Posts: 2009
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by munemaker » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:53 pm

bigcmagor wrote:
munemaker wrote:
bigcmagor wrote:I had two beefs with our now long gone X 5. First is the oil change interval when BMW is paying the bill. They wouldn't do the oil change until the oil monitor was down to 10% oil life and the oil change light came on. This turned out to be 14,000 miles for the way we drove it. I figured they must know what they are doing, but it was burning at least a quart in between changes by the time we unloaded it @105,000 miles. If I had to do it again, I would change the oil at my expense @ 5,000-6,000 miles...
So what's your beef about the oil change? Why would BMW (or you for that matter) want to change your oil more often than is recommended by the manufacturer? And...consumption of 1 quart of oil in 14,000 miles...negligible. What would you gain by changing your oil at 5,000 miles?

I am just wondering...I have a Honda. The Maintenance Minder says to change at 12,000 miles. I usually change around 10,000 miles. I add a little oil along the way. I don't keep track, but it is probably 1 to 1.5 quarts over 10,000 miles. So what? Synthetic oil is what? maybe $6/quart or so? BTW, my Honda now has 200,000 miles on it and is still running good.

Trying to understand your thoughts on the oil change interval.

Thanks!
On all of my other vehicles, I use Mobil 1 at 5,000 intervals. None of my other vehicles consume oil. The 14,000 mile interval was too long for engine preservation, especially if you plan to run the vehicle 100,000+ miles. My opinion based on my experience. YMMV.
So you are deducing because your car uses 1 quart of oil over 14,000 miles, the engine was being damaged from the 14,000 mile oil change interval?

Wolkenspiel
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by Wolkenspiel » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:28 pm

We own a previous generation X5 35i, 2012 MY with ~27000 miles. I'm sure the low mileage contributed, but the car has not had any repairs or dealer visits, other for the yearly maintenance. All materials inside have held up fine (with 2 little kids and their stuff being lugged around) and it basically drives, sounds and looks as we bought it, except for some minor parking scrapes on the bumpers. There may be a certain amount of luck involved, but the BMW-out-of-the-warranty horror stories can use a counterpoint. Still, if I were shopping for a replacement right now I'd probably look towards an Audi A7, which has a somewhat ungainly exterior, but a much better ride and interior than the current X5.

FBN2014
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by FBN2014 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:28 am

My daughter has a 2013 X5. Poor reliability, very expensive to repair. Check Consumer Reports, same conclusions there. If you want a luxury SUV buy a Lexus. I would buy one that's 2-3 years old with low mileage. That way you don't take the big time depreciation hit that occurs for a new vehicle.

takeshi
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by takeshi » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:37 am

bigcmagor wrote:On all of my other vehicles, I use Mobil 1 at 5,000 intervals. None of my other vehicles consume oil. The 14,000 mile interval was too long for engine preservation, especially if you plan to run the vehicle 100,000+ miles. My opinion based on my experience.
UOA's would be the way to determine that (aside from an engine teardown, that is).

While oil burning can be indicative of a problem, it's not necessarily a problem in and of itself depending on engine design.

munemaker
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by munemaker » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:20 am

takeshi wrote:
bigcmagor wrote:On all of my other vehicles, I use Mobil 1 at 5,000 intervals. None of my other vehicles consume oil. The 14,000 mile interval was too long for engine preservation, especially if you plan to run the vehicle 100,000+ miles. My opinion based on my experience.
UOA's would be the way to determine that (aside from an engine teardown, that is).
...
Or you could just accept the manufacturers' recommendation at face value.

Valuethinker
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by Valuethinker » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:14 pm

[edited]
Last edited by Valuethinker on Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WhiteMaxima
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Re: BMW X5 2017 - Seeking advice

Post by WhiteMaxima » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:38 pm

You should buy it to enjoy the ultimate driving machine. Buy with an extended warranty if BMW offers.

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