College admissions question - she got a "C"

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brak
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College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by brak »

My daughter just finished up her junior year in high school. Prior to this semester, her unweighted GPA was 3.81 which translates into mostly A's with a few B's sprinkled in. This semester she had a class with a Biology 2 teacher that was a killer and she got a "C". All her other courses were again A's and B's. I am wondering if any of you have insight as to how that C will effect her college admissions chances and whether there is anything she can do to lessen the impact of that C on people who review her college application. Thanks.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by TomatoTomahto »

brak wrote:My daughter just finished up her junior year in high school. Prior to this semester, her unweighted GPA was 3.81 which translates into mostly A's with a few B's sprinkled in. This semester she had a class with a Biology 2 teacher that was a killer and she got a "C". All her other courses were again A's and B's. I am wondering if any of you have insight as to how that C will effect her college admissions chances and whether there is anything she can do to lessen the impact of that C on people who review her college application. Thanks.
It really depends on many things: which schools she's interested in, whether they apply holistic admissions, her recommendations, etc.

What can she do to lessen the impact? Was a C the appropriate grade? Let me tell you what DS did. He got what he considered an inappropriate B in AP US History (long story involving a concussion). He never intended to take the SAT Subject Test in US History (he was more of a STEMish kid), but the B was a thorn in his side. So, he got a 5 on the AP test and a 780 on the SAT Subject Test, and said "if an Admissions Officer still wonders about the B, [blank] them."

Along with that B, Foreigb Language and Ceramics kept his GPA from being tops. In the end, it didn't matter, as he was admitted to his top choice.

I recommend http://www.collegeconfidential.com during this fraught time. Good luck. :sharebeer
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TomP10
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by TomP10 »

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. One mediocre grade should not be viewed that poorly. How she scores on her ACT/SAT is far more important than one semester's Bio grade. This is not to say that the grade won't affect her prospects at some college(s). Yet, you have to question whether those places are the right school for her.

For me, the bigger issue is finding the right fit for her. If you base your college search on US News rankings (or anyone's rankings) you are making a mistake. Is the college the right size? Is it located in a place that interests your daughter? I don't know the exact percentage, but a high percentage of kids change majors. Does it have variety of programs and majors? You want to go to college that is broad enough.

Finally, the college choice should not ignore the vast money differences across schools. If, like many folks here, you are concerned about a few basis points in your expense ratios, then it should also be that you evaluate whether it is worth spending $50,000 more per year at college x as compared to your state university.

My two cents
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by lightheir »

I thinks it's fine.

In fact, with the correct attitude, if she can be 'cool' about having an isolated "C" in an otherwise excellent grade-resume, she can parlay that to a positive process during interviews if they ask about that "C" that she was taking the time to explore other things and wasn't afraid to take the GPA hit in the process. I'd be prepared for interviewers to perhaps ask about it, but that can be a great question to prove that you're not afraid to take an occasional risk as well as show that you're not so wedded to chasing grades that you're missing the forest from the trees.

I was a straight-"A" student myself throughout my entire life, and I know for sure that I am recommending for my own daughter to NOT get straight As. I want her to do well in school, but in my opinion, if she's getting straight As, she's either not being sufficiently challenged, or getting so attached to chasing grades that she's missing the forest from the trees and should probably seriously asking herself whether she's properly exploring her social or other development facets.

Straight-As students (like I was) are boring. it just shows someone who is smart, but can play the system well. Someone who has the proven capacity to get straight As or similar, but chooses not to for other (good) reasons (obviously prepare a good answer!) - now THAT is a much more interesting candidate.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by sambb »

The "C" is not the only issue. The overall class rank matters. Higher = better. And yes, the "C" matters. Of course it does. But she can minimize the effect by getting As the rest of the time.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by jharkin »

Yeah, deep breath - one C shouldn't sink you. I got a few so-so grades in HS and I managed to get accepted by every school I applied to accept MIT (they wait listed me)
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by nisiprius »

College admissions a huge crapshoot. Don't worry about it. First of all, college admissions committees aren't stupid. If someone is in the range of being under consideration, they will take into effect what they know about grading at that particular high school, and they will also take into effect what they can see about whether the student is taking rigorous courses.

Harvard has this to say and I see no reason not to take them at their word:
Harvard College Frequently Asked Questions
Do I need certain grades or marks to be considered for admission?

We recognize that schools vary by size, academic program, and grading policies, so we do not have rigid grade requirements. There is no single academic path we expect all students to follow, but the strongest applicants take the most rigorous secondary school curricula available to them. We do seek students who achieve at a high level, and most admitted students rank in the top 10-15% of their graduating classes.
So, there you have it. Has that C dropped her out of the "top 10-15% of her graduating class?" If not, it hasn't closed any doors. Notice, too, they say "the strongest applicants take the most rigorous curricula."

As others have suggested, some moderate preparation for standardized exams--not to overdo it, but to make sure she will feel somewhat relaxed, confident, and prepared on the day of the test, and has looked fairly seriously at practice tests to know generally what they are like--would be a good idea.

Another good idea would be to propagandize her with realistic ideas about getting into the famous top colleges. Of course she will be disappointed but she should not feel that it is the end of her life if she doesn't get into her "stretch" schools, and if she does college visits she should at least visit State U because it may look nice and be full of serious-looking young people who give the impression that they are getting an education.

(And needless to say valedictorians, top of their class, good at science, good at English, good-at-athletics, 4.0-average high school students do get rejected. In fact I'm thinking of a specific person in my own high school class--no, not me, my own grades were meh and I was accepted by MIT).
Last edited by nisiprius on Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:43 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by livesoft »

True story: I had decent grades in H.S., but I got a D and an F in English from one teacher. I had a different English teacher write a letter of recommendation for my applications. I was accepted to every college I applied to.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by nisiprius »

livesoft wrote:True story: I had decent grades in H.S., but I got a D and an F in English from one teacher. I had a different English teacher write a letter of recommendation for my applications. I was accepted to every college I applied to.
+1. What a great concrete, specific idea.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by TomatoTomahto »

lightheir wrote:if she's getting straight As, she's either not being sufficiently challenged, or getting so attached to chasing grades that she's missing the forest from the trees and should probably seriously asking herself whether she's properly exploring her social or other development facets.
This.

We don't know which schools OP's D is looking at. At selective schools, the guidance counselor (GC) will be asked to indicate whether the student has taken the most rigorous course load available at the school. At selective schools, that is a deal breaker if not answered in the affirmative (absent a good reason from the GC).
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by bloom2708 »

Does she have room to retake the class her senior year? Our oldest got a C in an 8th grade math class that counted toward high school.

She retook the class and replaced the C with an A.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by Big Dog »

So, there you have it. Has that C dropped her out of the "top 10-15% of her graduating class?" If not, it hasn't closed any doors.
Any? Just not true. Unless the OP has a hook, Harvard's door is closed. But it probably was already with the B's.

But as the others noted unthread, actual impact, if any, will depend on which colleges she applies to. If she applies to nothing but the top ~10 Unis/LACs, she will be sorely disappointed come next April (again, absent a hook). If she applies wisely and broadly, she'll have several good choices.
Straight-As students (like I was) are boring. it just shows someone who is smart, but can play the system well. Someone who has the proven capacity to get straight As or similar, but chooses not to for other (good) reasons (obviously prepare a good answer!) - now THAT is a much more interesting candidate.
Harvard expects both. A girl in m D's class competitive HS (top 25 per USNews), was: Val, Captain of the LAX team, Second team All County, Lead in the school play, had a real volunteer community experience (I forgot what it was), voted Homecoming Queen (was popular enough)...and the like. She was accepted to H. Her twin brother, who was close behind her, (one A-), was equally accomplished, but was a STEM guy, so applied Early to MIT and went there instead.

One other contrarian comment about shooting for many A's. Since this is BH, A's (and great test scores) can turn into tax-free merit scholarships. Easiest money your kid will ever make, or at least that's what I told my kids. Alternatively, great numbers make one qualified for Harvard and their ilk, which have the most generous financial aid available. It was cheaper for us to send my S to the Ancient Eight than the instate public flagship. Again, tax-free money.
Last edited by Big Dog on Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by wrongfunds »

I recall with AP and extra credit most of my kid's friends had always over 4+ GPA. It was amusing to see over 4 GPA as I just could not grasp the concept!
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by Kenkat »

They are almost exclusively just going to look at her GPA and ACT / SAT scores first; one C is a very small part of the overall decision if they look in detail as they might if she were applying to a highly competitive program.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by windaar »

Best thing for the kid, her mental health, and her future, is not to fixate on a grade. As most of us on this board realize from our own lives, one doesn't have to get all A's and go to Yale to be "successful," that comes from one's own effort regardless of school attended. Would strongly recommend reading Frank Bruni's recent book "Where You Go is not Who You'll Be."
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Constant Chaos
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by Constant Chaos »

TomatoTomahto wrote:
I recommend http://www.collegeconfidential.com during this fraught time. Good luck. :sharebeer
This is a great resource, but be careful which forums you read. There is A LOT of overwrought hysteria in many of them. Lots of "oh no, I got an A-, it's nothing but community college and minimum wage employment for me!"

I think the financial aid forum is mostly parents posting, and is filled with wisdom. The Parents forum in general is good. There is a thread called "class of 2017 3.0-3.4 gpa" in that section where, gasp! Kids with far lower gpas than your daughter's have found good matches for college. So if your question is whether your daughter still has college options, of course she does. If the question is, what are her chances at the tippy top elites, that is always a crap shoot, even with straight As and perfect test scores.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by CyclingDuo »

brak wrote:My daughter just finished up her junior year in high school. Prior to this semester, her unweighted GPA was 3.81 which translates into mostly A's with a few B's sprinkled in. This semester she had a class with a Biology 2 teacher that was a killer and she got a "C". All her other courses were again A's and B's. I am wondering if any of you have insight as to how that C will effect her college admissions chances and whether there is anything she can do to lessen the impact of that C on people who review her college application. Thanks.
We look at:

GPA
Class Rank
ACT/SAT
Activities/Awards/Honors/Participation/Community Service

Having sat on the Admissions Committee in prior years, it's very rare we would focus in on one single grade in a class on a transcript - especially if the other 4 categories listed above are keen.

To lessen the impact, just have her continue to do well and target the 4 categories listed above.

I didn't read the entire thread, but is she interested in pursuing science or pre-med in college?
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by dbltrbl »

Relax. It is total picture not one grade. strong SAT/ACT can outweigh any grade shortcomings along with reputation of the high school. As mentioned before other activities, academic teams or debate society, sports, volunteering etc are also looked at.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by brak »

Thank you all for the helpful replies - I really appreciate it. It's so easy to get caught up in the college craziness, especially since my daughter goes to a high powered high school. Just to give you further bits of information that have been alluded to in the posts. My daughter does not intend to go to an elite college. She has some cognitive processing issues, which makes it all the more amazing to me that she has gotten the GPA that she has, and we are looking for a school that will have strong tutorial support as well as easy access to professors. At this point we are looking at schools such as University of Wisconsin La Crosse (we are from Wisconsin), Juniata (Pennsylvania), Ithaca (New York), and Mc Daniel (Virginia). She is interested in the health sciences along the lines of occupational therapy or perhaps nursing. Thanks again for any and all input.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by Clueless »

One C will not matter. GPA, rank, entrance exams, activities, and maybe an interview will decide the rest. That being said, I have seen valedictorians flunk out of school and mediocre students rise to the top of their class. What was the deciding factor besides intelligence, maturity, and determination? Stress management. It can be taught. And she learns her greatest lessons from you.

For what it is worth, I got a couple of Cs in my undergrad (and in core science classes). I was still accepted early to the doctorate program of my choice).

Any interviewer will tell you they can fill a classroom with 4.0s. But past a certain GPA/exam score, they really are looking at the whole package.

I know you want the best for your daughter, but try to relax. She sounds like a very smart young lady. Enjoy the time you have with her while she is still at home. Everything is going to be ok.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by amd2135 »

sambb wrote:The "C" is not the only issue. The overall class rank matters. Higher = better. And yes, the "C" matters. Of course it does. But she can minimize the effect by getting As the rest of the time.
My high school explicitly did not track, publish, or disclose class rank to anyone. This was to prevent it from being an undue burden for college admissions.

Regardless, it's one minor factor of many. Same with one 'C'. I doubt it will cause issues at the schools mentioned.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by workingstiff »

brak wrote:Thank you all for the helpful replies - I really appreciate it. It's so easy to get caught up in the college craziness, especially since my daughter goes to a high powered high school. Just to give you further bits of information that have been alluded to in the posts. My daughter does not intend to go to an elite college. She has some cognitive processing issues, which makes it all the more amazing to me that she has gotten the GPA that she has, and we are looking for a school that will have strong tutorial support as well as easy access to professors. At this point we are looking at schools such as University of Wisconsin La Crosse (we are from Wisconsin), Juniata (Pennsylvania), Ithaca (New York), and Mc Daniel (Virginia). She is interested in the health sciences along the lines of occupational therapy or perhaps nursing. Thanks again for any and all input.
Per your followup, it sounds like you and your daughter are on the right path. The "C" is what it is. I wouldn't worry too much about it, but I would acknowledge what it is and what it means, which by your reply above you already are doing.
One can waste a LOT of money on college, IMHO. It's not so much where you go, but why you are going where ever you are going and what you are going to do with your degree. Too many kids spend their parent's money to "figure out" what they want to do...
Again, based on your reply, I think you are already ahead of the game! And what a CRAZY game it is!!!
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by windaar »

Those are great student-centered schools you are considering. Maybe take a look here as well - a lot of fine liberal arts colleges are open to kids with B's and some C's.

Https://CTCL.org
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brak
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by brak »

Again, these replies are so so helpful. CTCL is the book in which we found McDaniel and Juniata College. Her school, by the way, does not provide class rank as the GPA is unweighted. She has taken the ACT twice (she is a lousy test taker) and her highest composite score is a 24. We are debating whether to have her take it one last time in September, and any input on that matter would be appreciated as well. We are trying to keep our household sane through all of this, while at the same time having her do the tasks she needs to do to get into the college that will be the best fit for her. We are looking for good fit, not prestige, in her college choice.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Re ACT retake: has she taken the SAT? Although the two tests are converging recently, there are some kids who do better on one versus the other.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by maple92 »

Reading an interesting book right now on what college admissions etc has seemingly become - "Excellent Sheep: The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life Paperback – May 26, 2015 by William Deresiewicz
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by HomerJ »

brak wrote:My daughter just finished up her junior year in high school. Prior to this semester, her unweighted GPA was 3.81 which translates into mostly A's with a few B's sprinkled in. This semester she had a class with a Biology 2 teacher that was a killer and she got a "C". All her other courses were again A's and B's. I am wondering if any of you have insight as to how that C will effect her college admissions chances and whether there is anything she can do to lessen the impact of that C on people who review her college application. Thanks.
Her GPA will be fine. The Grade Point AVERAGE.

What usually matters more is SAT and ACT scores.
My daughter does not intend to go to an elite college.
Oh, well definitely don't worry about it. Normal colleges (like the one I went to) aren't going to care about one C at all.
Last edited by HomerJ on Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by TallBoy29er »

Post by brak » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:32 am
We are trying to keep our household sane through all of this
It sounds like this is causing your whole home a good deal of stress. I wonder how this worrying it is affecting your daughter's performance?

My dad always told me to do my best, that was all I could do. That helped me immensely.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by TomatoTomahto »

maple92 wrote:Reading an interesting book right now on what college admissions etc has seemingly become - "Excellent Sheep: The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life Paperback – May 26, 2015 by William Deresiewicz
Not that there isn't value in reading the book, but to be fair, Deresiewicz turned much more negative on elite education after he was denied tenure at Yale. Just a grain of salt.
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brak
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by brak »

Tall Boy - thanks for your comment. Actually we are not stressed out. I find that information is the antidote to stress. I am just intent on trying to keep it low stress. Thanks.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by CyclingDuo »

brak wrote:Thank you all for the helpful replies - I really appreciate it. It's so easy to get caught up in the college craziness, especially since my daughter goes to a high powered high school. Just to give you further bits of information that have been alluded to in the posts. My daughter does not intend to go to an elite college. She has some cognitive processing issues, which makes it all the more amazing to me that she has gotten the GPA that she has, and we are looking for a school that will have strong tutorial support as well as easy access to professors. At this point we are looking at schools such as University of Wisconsin La Crosse (we are from Wisconsin), Juniata (Pennsylvania), Ithaca (New York), and Mc Daniel (Virginia). She is interested in the health sciences along the lines of occupational therapy or perhaps nursing. Thanks again for any and all input.
Sounds, great!

Keep in mind that a lot of smaller schools are fighting tooth and nail for students in the competitive environment out there between schools to recruit a freshman class. More students attend college in poor economic times compared to good economic times (due to jobs/employment rates), as well as those that come back for training in other fields during recessions and job loss. There are plenty of schools that would get on their knees and beg to have your daughter attend at the moment - as tuition based schools need them.

Know that as a parent and a consumer. That will trump any C that appears on a transcript for high school biology 2. :beer
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by TallBoy29er »

brak wrote:Tall Boy - thanks for your comment. Actually we are not stressed out. I find that information is the antidote to stress. I am just intent on trying to keep it low stress. Thanks.
my misinterpretation. nicely done. :D
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by Hockey10 »

The single best resource I used to determine whether or not my kids had a shot at getting into a school was site named "Naviance". This was set up in conjunction with the high school counseling office. Your high school may or may not use this, but if they do, spend a lot of time on the site.

There is a scattergram on the site that plots GPA (weighted or unweighted) and SAT / ACT scores. The graph shows your child plotted on the same graph with all other students from the same high school that have applied to each specific college over the last 5 - 10 years. You can see whether the other students were accepted, rejected or waitlisted. Your state flagship university will have dozens (or maybe hundreds) of students plotted on the graph. A picture is worth a thousand words and you will instantly see whether or not your child has a shot at getting into the college of their choice.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by staythecourse »

My kids are nowhere near college so may see things different at that time so take this with a grain of salt.

Let's look at this from a different point of view. What is the purpose of college? It is really to get a good job that makes money so you can support yourself and your future family. That simple. Do you see ANYONE in life that is successful go, "Boy I could have done X, but didn't because I got a C in high school 10-20 years ago? The answer is NO. So who cares.

If it prevents your kid from getting into the college of their dreams. WHO CARES. This country's obsession of defining themselves based on where they went to college makes no sense. You define yourself when you get to the end of the race and college is the beginning. The key to life is NOT getting A's or B's, but continuing to work hard past the many obstacles life throws in your way. The ones that do become successful and the one's that don't don't.

If it was me I would own up to it. I would say yes it was a tough class and I am glad it did it. I see a substandard performance compared to the rest of my high school grades, but I learned from it and the rest of my transcript showed I moved past it to continue to be successful. It shows I am not perfect, but shows I won't let a let down in one aspect of my life from preventing me from going where I want to go, etc...

Good luck.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by William4u »

staythecourse wrote:What is the purpose of college? It is really to get a good job that makes money so you can support yourself and your future family. That simple.
It makes me sad that people think this is the purpose of college (that the purpose of college is not different ultimately than that of a vocational school). From the point of view of a state-funded public college, the purpose is to create good citizens (which may include employability, but many other things as well). From the point of view of many kinds of private colleges, the purpose is to educate the whole person, mind, body, and spirit. Thus, in addition to taking courses in one's major, one takes math, science, history, literature, etc., to educate the whole person for life. I know many older folks who are often referring back to lit courses they took decades earlier as being formative for later life.

There is nothing wrong with making money for one's future family, but to reduce education to money to my ear sounds a bit cynical and depressing. I might add that if the purpose of that money is ultimately family wellbeing, then the purpose of college (so construed) is ultimately family wellbeing. Therefore, much of the college education really ought to be about wellbeing and the nature of a healthy family, which you will not typically find in business courses. One would learn more about that from a course on Shakespeare.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by Constant Chaos »

Your choices are very sensible! Glad you have already discovered the Colleges that Change Lives. This is from a great blog post about how most schools outside of the very elite are scrambling to fill their classes each year:

Schools: Desperately Seeking Students

You might assume that a student with a 3.0 GPA would have trouble getting into many colleges and universities. That is actually wrong.

Every year, UCLA does an exhaustive survey of the newest crop of freshmen attending public and private colleges and universities that includes this question: Did you get into your No. 1 school. Every year roughly 75% of freshman say they were admitted into their No. 1 pick.

College is actually a buyer’s market at the vast majority of the nation’s colleges and universities. It’s not hard to get into most four-year institutions, but many families don’t understand this because of the media’s craven preoccupation with the schools that are impregnable including the Ivies and other college-rankings alpha dogs.

You might also assume that a B student wouldn’t capture any merit scholarships, much less enjoy success in receiving a higher award. But that too is wrong.

Beyond the elite institutions, admission directors at most schools are petrified that they won’t meet their annual admission goals. Admission offices are finding it harder to attract enough freshmen.


I Really think your daughter will have good options!

http://www.thecollegesolution.com/advic ... b-student/
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prudent
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by prudent »

I was so naïve in high school (no one in the family had gone to college), I didn't even realize some people didn't get accepted to college. I had a 3.2 GPA, no honors classes, barely in the top 10% of the class, skimpy extracurricular activities and no community volunteer work. I applied to one college (private university) and just waited to be told when to show up. I was accepted into their Scholars Program (which I hadn't even heard of).

Colleges need students. Yes, the top 1% of schools are very competitive. And they still encourage many people to apply so they can reject them, making them appear so selective. The vast, vast majority of colleges are not looking for reasons to turn people away.

I wouldn't give a second thought to a single "C" grade and would put it out of my mind.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by harrychan »

From my experience mentoring recent HS graduates, top tier colleges look for students who can demonstrate success in different arenas. Example: I've seen kids who appear to be comparable in terms of GPA, SAT, ACT scores but one would get into an elite school while the other wouldn't. If you look deeper, the one who got into the elite school was also into sports, debate team, church activities, volunteered, and worked part time to support the family.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by livesoft »

An ACT of 24 will get one admitted to most universities if one applied. Let's face it, most universities and colleges are not that selective. My son's university accepted more than 60% of the applicants, but enrolled only about a third of the folks accepted.

There is actually a tyranny of choice, so weeding out places that are not a good fit can be quite a chore.
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brak
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by brak »

So does any one know of any good small schools (less than 10,000 students), liberal arts and student focused in nature, good health sciences programs, and good support for students (good availability of tutoring, good professor accessibility)? If they have an aerial dance program it's a plus, but we're not counting on that! Thanks again. I can't tell you how helpful this input is.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by TomCat96 »

brak wrote:My daughter just finished up her junior year in high school. Prior to this semester, her unweighted GPA was 3.81 which translates into mostly A's with a few B's sprinkled in. This semester she had a class with a Biology 2 teacher that was a killer and she got a "C". All her other courses were again A's and B's. I am wondering if any of you have insight as to how that C will effect her college admissions chances and whether there is anything she can do to lessen the impact of that C on people who review her college application. Thanks.

It probably won't affect much. But it's not good. She should compensate for it in other areas.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by texasdiver »

Just went through this with my daughter who had a similar GPA to your daughter (mostly As and Bs).

Big schools are going to do almost all of their admissions using a formula based on GPA, Class Rank, and SAT/ACT scores. No single class grade is actually going to be looked at individually. My daughter earned automatic admissions to several of the SEC and Big 12 state schools she applied to based entirely on a formula of GPA, Class Rank, and SAT scores (the higher the class rank, the lower the SAT score required etc.). I don't think any human actually looked at her individual transcript or essays or other supporting materials.

Small selective schools are going to have more complicated and subjective admissions criteria where again, no single grade is going to make much difference at all. It will be the overall picture plus how rigorous the HS course of study was (how many AP classes etc.)

I wouldn't worry about it. Just don't let her make it a habit.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by jabberwockOG »

Non minority, non specialist background kids (non athletes/musicians/etc) getting into the top 20 schools in the US have well over a 4.0 GPA and ACT scores of 34-36. Lots of kids with super all around packages, and documented achievement, leadership, etc. and with 5.4 GPA (extra points for A+ and AP A grades), and 35-36 on ACT still get rejected by top 20 schools. As an example Stanford had over 43,900 applicants in 2015 for about 2,063 openings (about half of which are filled by athletes, band, orchestra and specialty majors). The other top 20 schools have similar acceptance selectivity.

HS grades of B's pretty much ends your chances of attending the highest tier schools but the good news is that many high quality colleges (especially state schools) in the US have to work hard to fill their freshman class with qualified candidates. Finding and gaining admittance to a high quality second tier school for a hardworking kid with good grades is actually pretty easy in the US. Now paying the costs for the school is a different matter entirely.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by sunny_socal »

William4u wrote:
staythecourse wrote:What is the purpose of college? It is really to get a good job that makes money so you can support yourself and your future family. That simple.
It makes me sad that people think this is the purpose of college (that the purpose of college is not different ultimately than that of a vocational school). From the point of view of a state-funded public college, the purpose is to create good citizens (which may include employability, but many other things as well). From the point of view of many kinds of private colleges, the purpose is to educate the whole person, mind, body, and spirit. Thus, in addition to taking courses in one's major, one takes math, science, history, literature, etc., to educate the whole person for life. I know many older folks who are often referring back to lit courses they took decades earlier as being formative for later life.

There is nothing wrong with making money for one's future family, but to reduce education to money to my ear sounds a bit cynical and depressing. I might add that if the purpose of that money is ultimately family wellbeing, then the purpose of college (so construed) is ultimately family wellbeing. Therefore, much of the college education really ought to be about wellbeing and the nature of a healthy family, which you will not typically find in business courses. One would learn more about that from a course on Shakespeare.
These days it seems the purpose of universities is to brainwash kids.

I for one will support sending my kids for one purpose only: to learn the skills to make a living. Nothing else. I'll teach them critical thinking myself, a skill that seems to be no longer taught in our educational institutions. The mind/body/spirit aspects will be taken care of in the home. School will be for reading, writing and arithmetic - thank you very much.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by livesoft »

brak wrote:So does any one know of any good small schools (less than 10,000 students), liberal arts and student focused in nature, good health sciences programs, and good support for students (good availability of tutoring, good professor accessibility)? If they have an aerial dance program it's a plus, but we're not counting on that! Thanks again. I can't tell you how helpful this input is.
Just use a search site to find these. I used google and found many places. In the old days (1970's) I went to the library and looked in those big college guide books. It was relatively easy to find a bunch of schools. The internet makes it even easier nowadays.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... ies/a-plus

One can also ask your daughter where her friends are thinking about going. I think that's the way many high school students decide where to apply.

BTW, I think most universities / colleges have less than 10,000 students.

And just google "aerial dance university" and knock yourself out.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by Rob54keep »

This brings back old memories for me. When I was back in college I got a C in an advanced calculus course. At the time, it was a victory for me as I am not a math major. It never affected me getting into graduate school as the grade was not in my major which was geology.

However, when I started applying for jobs I was asked by one potential employer about the C grade and what I was going to do about it. I said that I wasn't planning to do anything about it because I had already celebrated the grade. They didn't find the comment funny and we never moved further on the job. Fast forward 30 years,,,,I had a great career and that company eventually went bankrupt.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by Loik098 »

staythecourse wrote: Do you see ANYONE in life that is successful go, "Boy I could have done X, but didn't because I got a C in high school 10-20 years ago? The answer is NO. So who cares.
FWIW, some professional programs will deny you admittance if you get a "C" in your current coursework after your initial acceptance. This happened to me after I got a "C" in my second semester of Organic Chem. I ended up having to apply to my second choice school (across the country) because of it.

I met my wife while attending that second-choice school, and now live in the same area (across the country) with her and our three children. So yes, I love to tell the story of how that one "C" changed my life. And thank God for that "C".

(But no, it did not prohibit me from being "successful", at least in the way you chose to define success.)
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by ram »

My son had a few 'C's in 'band' class. This did not prevent him from getting admitted to more than half a dozen well known schools and getting a full tuition scholarship. (He did have all A's in STEM subjects)
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by staythecourse »

William4u wrote:
staythecourse wrote:What is the purpose of college? It is really to get a good job that makes money so you can support yourself and your future family. That simple.
It makes me sad that people think this is the purpose of college (that the purpose of college is not different ultimately than that of a vocational school). From the point of view of a state-funded public college, the purpose is to create good citizens (which may include employability, but many other things as well). From the point of view of many kinds of private colleges, the purpose is to educate the whole person, mind, body, and spirit. Thus, in addition to taking courses in one's major, one takes math, science, history, literature, etc., to educate the whole person for life. I know many older folks who are often referring back to lit courses they took decades earlier as being formative for later life.

There is nothing wrong with making money for one's future family, but to reduce education to money to my ear sounds a bit cynical and depressing. I might add that if the purpose of that money is ultimately family wellbeing, then the purpose of college (so construed) is ultimately family wellbeing. Therefore, much of the college education really ought to be about wellbeing and the nature of a healthy family, which you will not typically find in business courses. One would learn more about that from a course on Shakespeare.
That is the a VERY U.S. centric point of view. You have been brainwashed for so long you don't realize it. There are MANY countries (including the largest population in the world, i.e. India) that has no college. Folks finish high school and go into whatever professional field they aspire. So, in your view point you are implying that since these countries don't have colleges their population is lacking in "the whole person,..."?

I can agree to disagree, but you better be able to talk from the point of view from the world and not just U.S.. If college is SO IMPORTANT to advance as a human being then why don't MANY other countries in the world have it?

Good luck.
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Re: College admissions question - she got a "C"

Post by staythecourse »

sunny_socal wrote:
William4u wrote:
staythecourse wrote:What is the purpose of college? It is really to get a good job that makes money so you can support yourself and your future family. That simple.
It makes me sad that people think this is the purpose of college (that the purpose of college is not different ultimately than that of a vocational school). From the point of view of a state-funded public college, the purpose is to create good citizens (which may include employability, but many other things as well). From the point of view of many kinds of private colleges, the purpose is to educate the whole person, mind, body, and spirit. Thus, in addition to taking courses in one's major, one takes math, science, history, literature, etc., to educate the whole person for life. I know many older folks who are often referring back to lit courses they took decades earlier as being formative for later life.

There is nothing wrong with making money for one's future family, but to reduce education to money to my ear sounds a bit cynical and depressing. I might add that if the purpose of that money is ultimately family wellbeing, then the purpose of college (so construed) is ultimately family wellbeing. Therefore, much of the college education really ought to be about wellbeing and the nature of a healthy family, which you will not typically find in business courses. One would learn more about that from a course on Shakespeare.
These days it seems the purpose of universities is to brainwash kids.

I for one will support sending my kids for one purpose only: to learn the skills to make a living. Nothing else. I'll teach them critical thinking myself, a skill that seems to be no longer taught in our educational institutions. The mind/body/spirit aspects will be taken care of in the home. School will be for reading, writing and arithmetic - thank you very much.
Agreed. Also, if one is going with hypothesis that college is so important for one's overall growth then why do we have SO MANY college grads that are no more worldly then high school kids? Don't confuse correlation with causation.

Good luck.

p.s. IF folks haven't figure it out college is meant for one purpose making money. There is a reason college education is so far advance from inflation last 20 years. You are NOT paying for growth. WHat you are paying for a larger athletics, pensions, and newer/ nicer dorms to attract more money.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
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