Subaru to Prius?

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:45 pm

Hi,

I've just read the other Subaru thread and didn't want to mix my own situation there

I also have a 2015 Subaru Outback. Bought brand new, got pretty good deal below MSRP, total OOP was $30k and some change. I bought it for car camping but unfortunately, work got too busy and I didn't get to do what I would love to do with it.

It is financed at 1.5% (cash is earning higher ROI). Currently owe $17.5k, car value at Edmunds $25k ish for private party sale.
We (me and DH) moved from CA to NV late last year and registration in NV is double what we paid in CA. We paid $450 for this year's registration alone. I'm thinking if it's a good idea to sell the OB and buy a used Prius (2009 or 2012) instead.

Thoughts:
- Registration for the 2012 Prius is $280, 2009 is $140, OB is $450.
- Prius seems to be a reliable and low maintenance car but of course can't know for sure how it has been treated.
- We get ~25mpg with the OB vs 42mpg (I think 2012 gets higher mpg but I'll take the lower amount for calculation to be safe).
- Car camp: both allows us to do so. OB is bigger, but we have only car camp twice in the past 2.5 yrs. I'm starting to question if it's worth keeping it for once in a while usage.
- Short distance drive: we both work from home and during the week, we only drive to get food or to run errands in the neighborhood so mostly short distance driving. Prius will win vs OB.
- Tires: need to replace all 4 with AWD vs individual one with FWD.

We will be driving more often to nearby parks and to car camp (hopefully!). While OB is better with snow, I'm not sure we will be driving in the snow often. As a matter of fact, my OB has never been driven in snow yet (but Zion and Bryce Canyon are nearby now).

With a prius, I will be saving $350-$500 in gas/year + $180-310 in registration. Not sure how much insurance will differ.

It seems if we can sell the car at $25k, I will have $7.5k cash towards the Prius. Does it make sense financially to sell the OB and get a Prius?

Edit to add: we only have 18k miles on it

bloom2708 · Post by **bloom2708** » Wed May 31, 2017 3:19 pm

Stick with the Subaru.

You will not get the $25k you hope, the Prius will be slightly more than you hoped and you will not know the history. You will pay taxes on the Prius.

The difference in gas mileage will not be worth it. The difference in registration is not significant.

Then add the hassle factor of trying to sell your Subaru. The lowballers are everywhere. "Will you take $19.5k?" Add the hassle factor of trying to find a "good used Prius". If you take it to CarMax, they will probably give you the $19.5k. No hassle, low offer.

All the reasons you bought the Subaru are still valid. Don't just do something, stand there!

RudyS · Post by **RudyS** » Wed May 31, 2017 4:00 pm

bloom2708 wrote:Stick with the Subaru.

You will not get the $25k you hope, the Prius will be slightly more than you hoped and you will not know the history. You will pay taxes on the Prius.

The difference in gas mileage will not be worth it. The difference in registration is not significant.

Then add the hassle factor of trying to sell your Subaru. The lowballers are everywhere. "Will you take $19.5k?" Add the hassle factor of trying to find a "good used Prius".

All the reasons you bought the Subaru are still valid. Don't just do something, stand there!

+1

mmmodem · Post by **mmmodem** » Wed May 31, 2017 5:53 pm

Easy decision for me: Prius

We had a WRX. We also rarely take it to snow. The tires happened to us twice. The first time it cost $900 for a new set of tires, all because one couldn't be repaired. The second time, the tire had only 10 or 15k miles. We risked it and replaced just the one. A full set of tires on my Prius cost $400. No more AWD for us.

Some other things we found out after we switched to a Prius: cheaper insurance, brake pads may never need service due to regenerative braking, no drive belts of any kind to break or need service. The Prius just cost much lower overall to own. I put chains on the Prius last year to Tahoe. The Subaru didn't take me anywhere my Prius couldn't take me.

Mandatory battery replacement after a set number of miles is a myth. A Prius is probably as likely to need a new battery as a Subaru is to need a new transmission.

I'd get a 2012 model. 2009 is just too old reliability wise for any car even if it is a Prius which is one of the most highly rated vehicles for reliability.

Ninnie · Post by **Ninnie** » Wed May 31, 2017 6:18 pm

You will not get the mileage you are expecting on the Prius for short drives - it takes a while for the car to warm up. Also, battery warranty will not last much longer on the 2009 and it's two generations old - if you do this, get at least a Gen 3 (2010 on).

The Subaru is a more comfortable ride and more versatile when you do travel. Ground clearance is not great on the Prius, which is important at many campsites. Plus an Outback will be much more useful for lugging your stuff around. You've already paid for depreciation on the new car. Keep the Subie for two more years, then reassess.

Broadway2018 · Post by **Broadway2018** » Wed May 31, 2017 6:26 pm

double post by mistake

Broadway2018 · Post by **Broadway2018** » Wed May 31, 2017 6:27 pm

double post by mistake

Broadway2018 · Post by **Broadway2018** » Wed May 31, 2017 6:28 pm

double post by mistake

Broadway2018 · Post by **Broadway2018** » Wed May 31, 2017 6:28 pm

bloom2708 wrote:Stick with the Subaru.

You will not get the $25k you hope, the Prius will be slightly more than you hoped and you will not know the history. You will pay taxes on the Prius.

The difference in gas mileage will not be worth it. The difference in registration is not significant.

Then add the hassle factor of trying to sell your Subaru. The lowballers are everywhere. "Will you take $19.5k?" Add the hassle factor of trying to find a "good used Prius". If you take it to CarMax, they will probably give you the $19.5k. No hassle, low offer.

All the reasons you bought the Subaru are still valid. Don't just do something, stand there!

So I have a 2015 Subaru Outback Limited w/ eyesight, nav, everything and was contemplating selling. The lowest amount on Autotrader for a car like mine was $28,000. I went to every dealer I could think of and they all low balled me to $23,000. Even most dealers would not honor the Subaru Guaranteed Trade-in amount which is $24,300. Then I decided to try privately and priced it at $26,000 and got mostly sketchy people w/ low ball offers even worse than the dealers. Basically, it is not worth it. Keep the Subaru and drive it for 10 years. It is a great car and will drive well over 200k miles. [/quote][/quote]

bottlecap · Post by **bottlecap** » Wed May 31, 2017 6:55 pm

I can't tell you what to do, but buying a different car because I don't go camping often enough wouldn't have entered my head, unless I was driving an rv.

I also think the tire replacement reasoning is bogus. Tire issues are rare. Moreover, tires need to at least be replaced in pairs and, honestly, I would never replace less than 4 even on a 2wd vehicle.

JT

knight rider · Post by **knight rider** » Wed May 31, 2017 7:57 pm

mmmodem wrote:Easy decision for me: Prius

We had a WRX. We also rarely take it to snow. The tires happened to us twice. The first time it cost $900 for a new set of tires, all because one couldn't be repaired. The second time, the tire had only 10 or 15k miles. We risked it and replaced just the one. A full set of tires on my Prius cost $400. No more AWD for us.

Some other things we found out after we switched to a Prius: cheaper insurance, brake pads may never need service due to regenerative braking, no drive belts of any kind to break or need service. The Prius just cost much lower overall to own. I put chains on the Prius last year to Tahoe. The Subaru didn't take me anywhere my Prius couldn't take me.

Mandatory battery replacement after a set number of miles is a myth. A Prius is probably as likely to need a new battery as a Subaru is to need a new transmission.

I'd get a 2012 model. 2009 is just too old reliability wise for any car even if it is a Prius which is one of the most highly rated vehicles for reliability.

We had a blowout on our 2011 Outback and were faced with the same issue of replacing a single tire. I found out that TireRack (and probably others) offer 'tire shaving'. I measured the tread depth of the other 3 tires and they shaved down the new tire to match. It was extremely cheap (maybe $10?). Sure beat buying 4 when I only needed one.

inbox788 · Post by **inbox788** » Wed May 31, 2017 11:01 pm

livelifealittle wrote:We (me and DH) moved from CA to NV late last year and registration in NV is double what we paid in CA.

Why did you move to NV? Did your salary go up, down or stay the same? How much are you saving in income tax? I'm guessing it's enough to pay for the extra registration, gas AND monthly payments.

You were fine in CA with the expense when you bought the Outback, and in all likelihood, finances are better. Why sweat it? Enjoy the Outback and go camping more!

Hypersion · Post by **Hypersion** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:54 am

Maybe if you had a $100K range rover or a heavy duty truck it might be worth trading for a prius but not an Outback.

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:05 pm

Interesting. Only 1 person who say yes to Prius (and you actually did make the switch and happy with it)

Those of you who recommend to keep the Subaru, what are you reasons? Is it because you have driven both and the OB is more comfortable or fun than the Prius? Or is it because of the monetary reason (it's not worth the hassle of selling and buying another car)?
I admit I've never driven a Prius before. Will rent one and see how we like it (DH does most of the driving so if he hates it then it won't work).

For the monetary part, what I'm thinking is, assuming I can only get $23k for the OB, that means the cost of ownership for the past 2.5yrs is $7k ($3k/yr or $250/mo). Not cheap, but not too bad either since it still costs less than leasing one. With the savings of at least $500/mo (assuming gas is $2.50/gal) + no car payment, that'd reduce the total loss for the OB pretty quickly.
If anything, I know now what owning a brand new car feels like and how much it costs to do so! Lesson learned

Also, to clarify, the concern is not whether we can afford the OB.

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:07 pm

kwarden13 wrote: So I have a 2015 Subaru Outback Limited w/ eyesight, nav, everything and was contemplating selling. The lowest amount on Autotrader for a car like mine was $28,000. I went to every dealer I could think of and they all low balled me to $23,000. Even most dealers would not honor the Subaru Guaranteed Trade-in amount which is $24,300. Then I decided to try privately and priced it at $26,000 and got mostly sketchy people w/ low ball offers even worse than the dealers. Basically, it is not worth it. Keep the Subaru and drive it for 10 years. It is a great car and will drive well over 200k miles.

Where are you located? Your thread was the one I referred to in the OP

bloom2708 · Post by **bloom2708** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:27 pm

Drive a new Prius. If you like it better than the Subaru, take the hit and buy the Prius. New, not a 2009 or 2010.

My parents (early 70s) bought a new smaller SUV. They got home and realized it didn't have a roof rack. They like to go canoeing and it didn't cross their mind when shopping.

They went back to the dealer and he said it would be $1,200 to add the side rails and buy a set of Yakima crossbars. Not unreasonable. My dad refused to pay it. After putting on 4-5k miles, they stopped at the local Subaru dealer and drove a Forester with a roof rack/crossbars. They liked it. Of course, the trade in value offered was a slap in the face. $6,500 less than they paid for it just a few months prior.

Next my dad started shopping for used beaters with a roof rack to have a 3rd vehicle to hoist the canoe. He was looking in the $5k range.

I only bring this up because the tail is wagging the dog. So far, he just continues to grumble about the roof rack. I would have put the $1,200 factory rack on at the dealer long ago.

It seems like you can easily afford a different car. I brought up the hassle factor and the fact that you will not get what you want selling and will pay more buying plus transactions costs. As long as you know that (you do), then just go get the car you want.

Once an idea is hatched, it is hard to put back in the shell. Every time you hop in the Subaru you will be reminded that it isn't a <fill in the blank>.

Keep us posted on what you do.

Jack FFR1846 · Post by **Jack FFR1846** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:50 pm

livelifealittle wrote: Those of you who recommend to keep the Subaru, what are you reasons? Is it because you have driven both and the OB is more comfortable or fun than the Prius? Or is it because of the monetary reason (it's not worth the hassle of selling and buying another car)?
I admit I've never driven a Prius before. Will rent one and see how we like it (DH does most of the driving so if he hates it then it won't work).

I haven't chimed in yet and won't even offer a recommendation as there's not enough information.

My own observations: Subarus have their own quirks and things that go wrong. Understand what they are and decide what you can live with. Subaru also offers factory extended warranties up to 7 years, 100k miles. You might want to consider one. Maybe not. A hint, look at Mastria Subaru for a discount on the factory warranty.

Ok, on to driving impressions. Sorry, but an Outback is a step above a Buick (I say that in a bad way) and drives almost like a boat. (I own an Outback). That being said, I HAVE driven Priuses? Priusi? Many units of cars named Prius. To be honest, if you're not a total nerd trying to hypermile or marvel at the gauges and information it gives you and just drive it as a car, it will kill you. No, really, it is so boring that it will literally suck the life out of you and leave you at the side of the road for the crows to pick your body apart.

Besides that, they get great MPG.

SmileyFace · Post by **SmileyFace** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:57 pm

Trading in one car for another with similar reliability but is 3 or 6 years older puts you 3 or 6 years closer to having to get another vehicle.

tyrion · Post by **tyrion** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:05 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
livelifealittle wrote: Those of you who recommend to keep the Subaru, what are you reasons? Is it because you have driven both and the OB is more comfortable or fun than the Prius? Or is it because of the monetary reason (it's not worth the hassle of selling and buying another car)?
I admit I've never driven a Prius before. Will rent one and see how we like it (DH does most of the driving so if he hates it then it won't work).
SNIP

That being said, I HAVE driven Priuses? Priusi? Many units of cars named Prius. To be honest, if you're not a total nerd trying to hypermile or marvel at the gauges and information it gives you and just drive it as a car, it will kill you. No, really, it is so boring that it will literally suck the life out of you and leave you at the side of the road for the crows to pick your body apart.

Besides that, they get great MPG.

I've driven a 2007 Prius for the last 5 years. It was used when I received it as a hand me down, and was actually an upgrade over an old Ford Escape I had been driving. At least it has some tech (bluetooth phone, keyless entry and ignition) and a decent radio. But yes, it has started sucking the life out of me. I look at other cars and think of how much more interesting they would be to drive. I read car reviews. I watch videos on cars. I envy my wife driving a Highlander, like it's some sort of great driving experience. Ugh. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend a used Prius over a newer Subaru. Maybe a Prius to replace a really old car. And it is really good at what it does, so if you think of cars as appliances to get you from point A to point B then perhaps a Prius is for you. In my 5 years it has performed flawlessly, and has only ever had oil changes.

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:09 pm

bloom2708 wrote:...

I see your point on your dad's story but failed to understand how getting a new Prius will help me in saving money?
I will need to spend more money buying the car, registration will cost roughly the same with the OB, and insurance is probably the same too. Can you elaborate more please?

PandaBear · Post by **PandaBear** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:19 pm

This is a tough decision to be sure. On the one hand, Subarus are really dependable. On the other hand, the deadly Prius is more eco-friendly than any Subaru. Honestly, I think it would come down to which car had the lower insurance rate, higher mpg, and cheaper repairs/maintenance. I like the idea of the deadly Prius, but I like my money more, so I would only get it if it was the optimal option given the three categories I mentioned.

bloom2708 · Post by **bloom2708** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:19 pm

livelifealittle wrote:
bloom2708 wrote:...
I see your point on your dad's story but failed to understand how getting a new Prius will help me in saving money?
I will need to spend more money buying the car, registration will cost roughly the same with the OB, and insurance is probably the same too. Can you elaborate more please?

Right. Sorry about rambling.

Doing nothing is your BEST option for saving money. Down carring will net you some cash, but I'm not sure that qualifies as saving money. Let's say you take $5,000 less than value on trade/private sale. But you save $200 in registration, $75 in insurance and $200 in gas per year with a different car. That is 10 years to recover the $5,000 hit on the Subaru.

I have 2 teen kids driving, wife has a newer car. I drive a 2001 Toyota Echo that I paid $1,600 cash for. Close to 40 mpg. Registration is $49 for a year. Liability only insurance is $149/year. $198/year. I don't recommend it for everyone. I could have saved more money by riding my bicycle and not buying the car at all. Cars take your money in big and small chunks.

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:23 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:I haven't chimed in yet and won't even offer a recommendation as there's not enough information.

My own observations: Subarus have their own quirks and things that go wrong. Understand what they are and decide what you can live with. Subaru also offers factory extended warranties up to 7 years, 100k miles. You might want to consider one. Maybe not. A hint, look at Mastria Subaru for a discount on the factory warranty.

Ok, on to driving impressions. Sorry, but an Outback is a step above a Buick (I say that in a bad way) and drives almost like a boat. (I own an Outback). That being said, I HAVE driven Priuses? Priusi? Many units of cars named Prius. To be honest, if you're not a total nerd trying to hypermile or marvel at the gauges and information it gives you and just drive it as a car, it will kill you. No, really, it is so boring that it will literally suck the life out of you and leave you at the side of the road for the crows to pick your body apart.

Besides that, they get great MPG.

LOL. I think the issue that bugs me the most is that better MPG cars are out there and after 2.5 years owning it, I don't think we NEED an SUV (no kids, no pets, travel light). I drive slower and try to get better MPG but those are the less important things for DH, who does most of the driving.

When you say it's a boring car to drive, is it because it doesn't have a lot of features or is it because it's very slow? Sorry, I've heard people say it's boring but have no clue what it means.
We drove our Civic for 10 years before buying the Outback. It didn't even have CD player, we had cassette to ipod converter!

Is a Prius more boring than that? (I'm asking seriously).

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:28 pm

PandaBear wrote:This is a tough decision to be sure. On the one hand, Subarus are really dependable. On the other hand, the deadly Prius is more eco-friendly than any Subaru. Honestly, I think it would come down to which car had the lower insurance rate, higher mpg, and cheaper repairs/maintenance. I like the idea of the deadly Prius, but I like my money more, so I would only get it if it was the optimal option given the three categories I mentioned.

That's where I'm at currently. I heard Prius is very dependable too.
Prius will win on the mpg and registration (this is an annual cost so kinda hard to overlook). Insurance wise, I will have to double check with my ins co.

I actually don't care much about cars and DH doesn't even like the look of a Prius but like you, I like my money more.

Countermoon · Post by **Countermoon** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:32 pm

Ninnie wrote:You will not get the mileage you are expecting on the Prius for short drives - it takes a while for the car to warm up. Also, battery warranty will not last much longer on the 2009 and it's two generations old - if you do this, get at least a Gen 3 (2010 on).

The Subaru is a more comfortable ride and more versatile when you do travel. Ground clearance is not great on the Prius, which is important at many campsites. Plus an Outback will be much more useful for lugging your stuff around. You've already paid for depreciation on the new car. Keep the Subie for two more years, then reassess.

That is not true. I routinely get 70+mpg on my 3 mile commute to the office.

I really like driving a Prius. In the 15 months I've owned it (a 2012), the only costs have been 4 new Michelin Defenders and one oil change per year. It's as close as you can get to a maintenance-free vehicle. And yes, the fun-to-drive factor is low, but there's nothing like filling up the tank for $18 and getting 500 driving miles.

tyrion · Post by **tyrion** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:34 pm

livelifealittle wrote:
Jack FFR1846 wrote:I haven't chimed in yet and won't even offer a recommendation as there's not enough information.

My own observations: Subarus have their own quirks and things that go wrong. Understand what they are and decide what you can live with. Subaru also offers factory extended warranties up to 7 years, 100k miles. You might want to consider one. Maybe not. A hint, look at Mastria Subaru for a discount on the factory warranty.

Ok, on to driving impressions. Sorry, but an Outback is a step above a Buick (I say that in a bad way) and drives almost like a boat. (I own an Outback). That being said, I HAVE driven Priuses? Priusi? Many units of cars named Prius. To be honest, if you're not a total nerd trying to hypermile or marvel at the gauges and information it gives you and just drive it as a car, it will kill you. No, really, it is so boring that it will literally suck the life out of you and leave you at the side of the road for the crows to pick your body apart.

Besides that, they get great MPG.
LOL. I think the issue that bugs me the most is that better MPG cars are out there and after 2.5 years owning it, I don't think we NEED an SUV (no kids, no pets, travel light). I drive slower and try to get better MPG but those are the less important things for DH, who does most of the driving.

When you say it's a boring car to drive, is it because it doesn't have a lot of features or is it because it's very slow? Sorry, I've heard people say it's boring but have no clue what it means.
We drove our Civic for 10 years before buying the Outback. It didn't even have CD player, we had cassette to ipod converter!
Is a Prius more boring than that? (I'm asking seriously).

Yes, they are boring. Very little road feedback. When you accelerate the engine revs but it feels like nothing happens for a few seconds before it finally starts to go. The gauges are mildly interesting if you want to make a game out of getting really good MPG.

I would suggest going to your local Carmax (I think they have them in Nevada) and test driving a Prius or two. Last time I was at a Carmax they had 5 or 6 of them sitting on the lot. Once you've driven it and compared it to your Subaru you can make a more informed decision.

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:37 pm

bloom2708 wrote:Right. Sorry about rambling.

Doing nothing is your BEST option for saving money. Down carring will net you some cash, but I'm not sure that qualifies as saving money.

I have 2 teen kids driving, wife has a newer car. I drive a 2001 Toyota Echo that I paid $1,600 cash for. Close to 40 mpg. Registration is $49 for a year. Liability only insurance is $149/year. $198/year. I don't recommend it for everyone. I could have saved more money by riding my bicycle and not buying the car at all. Cars take your money in big and small chunks.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were rambling. I thought it'd save some space to not quote the whole post. I appreciate the story and your input

I lived in NY and didn't have car before. However, I now live in a suburb where summer averages 100F (or something, point is it's hot) and grocery shopping is 20 min drive away. And we do travel to state/national parks nearby so not having a car is more inconvenient.

If down carring yields some cash, why does it not qualify as saving money? Is it because I will need to replace the car faster than the Outback?

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:41 pm

tyrion wrote:Yes, they are boring. Very little road feedback. When you accelerate the engine revs but it feels like nothing happens for a few seconds before it finally starts to go. The gauges are mildly interesting if you want to make a game out of getting really good MPG.

I would suggest going to your local Carmax (I think they have them in Nevada) and test driving a Prius or two. Last time I was at a Carmax they had 5 or 6 of them sitting on the lot. Once you've driven it and compared it to your Subaru you can make a more informed decision.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestion. I think we'll do that and then rent one for a day to see how we feel.

bloom2708 · Post by **bloom2708** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:46 pm

You would net cash, but you lock in the loss on the Subaru. You already spent the money, the loss would be between perceived value and sale/trade value.

Buying a 2009, you are several years (6) closer to buying the next vehicle. The purchase is in the future, but it is coming.

With a 2015, that next purchase is 10 years out (if you want it to be).

But, driving a car that is "not the car" is not great either. I've learned "there is no right answer" when commenting on car topics. You get different options/perspectives, gather them together and do nothing or do something.

jthokie4 · Post by **jthokie4** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:50 pm

We enjoyed our V6 2012 Outback, but didn't enjoy the ~20 mpg gas mileage. We traded it in for a 2012 Prius V, and netted about $8k in the transaction. How many people get cash BACK when they trade in a car???

We really enjoy the Prius V. It is really versatile, and has all the space of the Outback, while getting twice the gas mileage of our old V6. As someone pointed out, its really nice filling up a 10-gallon tank for around $20 and going 400 miles on it. Feels liberating, being able to travel so cheaply. We even car-camped in the trunk on a long summer road trip, and enjoyed the a/c that can run on battery while the engine only needs to intermittently crank on.

Then, we moved to Colorado, and occasionally miss the ground clearance and AWD to get us to some of the rougher 4WD trailheads. But the Prius can still access so much. I really like the hybrid powertrain, and don't think I will ever go back to a regular internal combustion engine. If only they would make a version that has AWD and the ground clearance of the Outback, it would be the perfect car.

Ninnie · Post by **Ninnie** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:00 pm

Countermoon wrote:That is not true. I routinely get 70+mpg on my 3 mile commute to the office.

That is not typical and probably unique to your driving conditions. Consider yourself lucky.

We routinely got in the mid-40's for our Gen 2, and now around 50mpg for our Gen 3. And with both cars mileage was/is lower on short runs.

That's in line with what I've read on Priuschat, as well.

inbox788 · Post by **inbox788** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:26 pm

bloom2708 wrote:My parents (early 70s) bought a new smaller SUV. They got home and realized it didn't have a roof rack. They like to go canoeing and it didn't cross their mind when shopping.

They went back to the dealer and he said it would be $1,200 to add the side rails and buy a set of Yakima crossbars. Not unreasonable. My dad refused to pay it. After putting on 4-5k miles, they stopped at the local Subaru dealer and drove a Forester with a roof rack/crossbars. They liked it. Of course, the trade in value offered was a slap in the face. $6,500 less than they paid for it just a few months prior.

Next my dad started shopping for used beaters with a roof rack to have a 3rd vehicle to hoist the canoe. He was looking in the $5k range.

I only bring this up because the tail is wagging the dog. So far, he just continues to grumble about the roof rack. I would have put the $1,200 factory rack on at the dealer long ago.

Why not aftermarket/Yakima rack? What is the vehicle? I spent less than $100 on my roof rack, albeit 3rd party. Only used it twice, so glad I didn't spend more.

You can go to Yakima.com or equivalent and probably DIY or take it to a local mechanic or handyman. Most cars can be had for half or less what the dealer wants. Does the $1200 include the crossbars or is that extra? Also, checkout craigslist or eBay for OEM and 3rd party racks. If you get lucky, someone is upgrading or doing something and you can inherit what they leave behind for cheap.

OP, if it's that hard to decide, then do nothing.

DaftInvestor wrote:Trading in one car for another with similar reliability but is 3 or 6 years older puts you 3 or 6 years closer to having to get another vehicle.

That can be a good thing or a bad thing.

bloom2708 · Post by **bloom2708** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:34 pm

inbox788 wrote: Why not aftermarket/Yakima rack? What is the vehicle? I spent less than $100 on my roof rack, albeit 3rd party. Only used it twice, so glad I didn't spend more.

They somehow managed to buy a (Ford Escape SE) with out any bars running front to back (bare metal roof). I have two sets of lockable crossbars they could use, but without the mounts to mount them to, it gets difficult.

I know you can get Q towers that mount under the door edge/lip, but with a canoe, there is a lot of wind drag/force. I've never felt those were all that strong.

So the install was to put the factory rails running front to back (bolted to the car) and for a set of crossbars. They really only need the first set.

I said it would be easier to just not go canoeing.

Easy Rhino · Post by **Easy Rhino** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:43 pm

I don't know what a used Prius costs. But let's say it's less than what you can sell your Outback for. Well, that would save you money, as long as you keep the prius for almost as long as you'd keep your Outback.

You also say you work from home. you might not put many miles on the car. this means that savings on gas won't add up to a lot of money over the course of a year.

Registration costs are not significant compared to other costs.

You don't actually go camping much, and can do it in either anyway.

So by my judgemental standard... none of your factors actually matter.

Just find out what you want to drive, and then drive that one.

Broadway2018 · Post by **Broadway2018** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:20 pm

livelifealittle wrote:
kwarden13 wrote: So I have a 2015 Subaru Outback Limited w/ eyesight, nav, everything and was contemplating selling. The lowest amount on Autotrader for a car like mine was $28,000. I went to every dealer I could think of and they all low balled me to $23,000. Even most dealers would not honor the Subaru Guaranteed Trade-in amount which is $24,300. Then I decided to try privately and priced it at $26,000 and got mostly sketchy people w/ low ball offers even worse than the dealers. Basically, it is not worth it. Keep the Subaru and drive it for 10 years. It is a great car and will drive well over 200k miles.
Where are you located? Your thread was the one I referred to in the OP

I am in the Baltimore area. Anyone looking for a new Subaru? Lol

Also what ultimately made my decision is the safety of the outback. Even without eyesight, it is a very safe vehicle to drive and better suited to handle an accident if one would occur. I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want the safest vehicle to drive.

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:12 pm

bloom2708 wrote:You would net cash, but you lock in the loss on the Subaru. You already spent the money, the loss would be between perceived value and sale/trade value.

Buying a 2009, you are several years (6) closer to buying the next vehicle. The purchase is in the future, but it is coming.

With a 2015, that next purchase is 10 years out (if you want it to be).

But, driving a car that is "not the car" is not great either. I've learned "there is no right answer" when commenting on car topics. You get different options/perspectives, gather them together and do nothing or do something.

Got it. Thanks for explaining

And yes, I am still gathering lots of information before making the decision. Mind is definitely not set yet.

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:26 pm

jthokie4 wrote:We enjoyed our V6 2012 Outback, but didn't enjoy the ~20 mpg gas mileage. We traded it in for a 2012 Prius V, and netted about $8k in the transaction. How many people get cash BACK when they trade in a car???

We really enjoy the Prius V. It is really versatile, and has all the space of the Outback, while getting twice the gas mileage of our old V6. As someone pointed out, its really nice filling up a 10-gallon tank for around $20 and going 400 miles on it. Feels liberating, being able to travel so cheaply. We even car-camped in the trunk on a long summer road trip, and enjoyed the a/c that can run on battery while the engine only needs to intermittently crank on.

Then, we moved to Colorado, and occasionally miss the ground clearance and AWD to get us to some of the rougher 4WD trailheads. But the Prius can still access so much. I really like the hybrid powertrain, and don't think I will ever go back to a regular internal combustion engine. If only they would make a version that has AWD and the ground clearance of the Outback, it would be the perfect car.

^This.
Thank you for sharing your experience! Your first sentence pretty much sums up what I feel right now. And yeah, the higher ground clearance is nice to have, but for twice the gas mileage, the temptation is getting hard to resist

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:29 pm

Easy Rhino wrote:You also say you work from home. you might not put many miles on the car. this means that savings on gas won't add up to a lot of money over the course of a year.

Registration costs are not significant compared to other costs.

You don't actually go camping much, and can do it in either anyway.

So by my judgemental standard... none of your factors actually matter.

I think you might miss the part where I said "we will be driving more". But if you already made up your mind that my factors doesn't matter, ok then.

SciurusVulgaris · Post by **SciurusVulgaris** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:38 pm

I went from a four cylinder Outback to a Prius, so I'm a biased source.

I felt like the Prius was more responsive to the throttle, in "power" mode. It runs almost as well in the snow, since it's heavy. The Outback drove like a boat, the Prius is a little better. I take mine down muddy, rutted dirt roads in the mountains. I've only missed the clearance when pulling out of an unplowed snowy driveway.

The Prius rarely needs work, while the Outback needed brakes every 30k miles plus more frequent oil changes. I dreaded replacing the OB tires too. In short, I think the Prius is great, although it doesn't have the cachet that the Outback does.

Financially, as others said, it's probably a wash. I had calculated that I could do slightly better with the Prius if I stuck with a new Prius 2 model, and got a good price. So far, I'm way ahead, but I got a good deal at the end of the model year + factory incentives, and I got a good price for the old car. All of my recurring costs went down.

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:39 pm

kwarden13 wrote:I am in the Baltimore area. Anyone looking for a new Subaru? Lol

Also what ultimately made my decision is the safety of the outback. Even without eyesight, it is a very safe vehicle to drive and better suited to handle an accident if one would occur. I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want the safest vehicle to drive.

I'll take it you've decided to keep your Outback for many more years now?

The ES is nice feature but to be fair, I can't say for sure that mine works properly as I never used that before. There was someone in the subaru forum who tested it in the dealer parking lot and it crashed the cardboard they used for testing though.
I tend to be defensive driver and keep my space from the car in front of me but I agree, it can be a life saver.

Broadway2018 · Post by **Broadway2018** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:24 pm

livelifealittle wrote:
kwarden13 wrote:I am in the Baltimore area. Anyone looking for a new Subaru? Lol

Also what ultimately made my decision is the safety of the outback. Even without eyesight, it is a very safe vehicle to drive and better suited to handle an accident if one would occur. I don't have kids, but if I did, I would want the safest vehicle to drive.
I'll take it you've decided to keep your Outback for many more years now?
The ES is nice feature but to be fair, I can't say for sure that mine works properly as I never used that before. There was someone in the subaru forum who tested it in the dealer parking lot and it crashed the cardboard they used for testing though.
I tend to be defensive driver and keep my space from the car in front of me but I agree, it can be a life saver.

I have decided to keep it for now. It is tempting because of how much the car is worth and it would be nice to not have a car payment. However, I can't see myself driving something else much cheaper for 10 years. Forgoing the tech, navigation, eyesight, leather, etc., just to buy a sedan with many more miles and no features. Plus I would replace it much sooner. I thought I didn't care that much but before you decide, rent a Prius for a week and only drive that car. I test drove one once and it was like a toy and very basic. I would never enjoy driving it.

Let us know what you ultimately decide. I will be following for sure!

livelifealittle · Post by **livelifealittle** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:46 pm

Update:

We test drove the Prius at local dealer. Much to my surprise, DH doesn't mind the slow acceleration and says he'll live with it.
When it was my turn though... I hit the gas like the Subaru and although I have the 2.4L, the Outback's gas is quite sensitive so I'm used to feathering it. Did that with the Prius. It didn't go anywhere

I floored the gas and it was still going very slow (compared to the OB).

Anyway, it was hilarious and we all had a good laugh, including the sales guy who was pretty cool and not pushy at all.

Note: I understand to compare the Prius slow acceleration to the OB is not fair given they both offer different mpg. I just wasn't expecting it to be THAT different. Feels like going back to regular TV after getting so used to HDTV for so long.
I'll probably give hybrid another try (buddy of mine has a Ford hybrid and he'll let me drive it next week when we visit him) but for now, the temptation has subsided a lot.

SciurusVulgaris · Post by **SciurusVulgaris** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:48 pm

Not that I want to tempt you, but were you sure the car was in either "normal" or "power" modes? The acceleration behavior you describe seems like "eco" mode.

stlutz · Post by **stlutz** » Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:53 pm

Looking at the site "zeroto60times.com", the 2.5L Outback does 0-60 in about 9 seconds; the 3.5L Outback does so in around 7 seconds. The Prius, regardless of the year, does 0-60 in about 9.5 to 10 seconds.

If you have the Outback with the bigger engine, the Prius will feel slower; if you have the smaller engine, the Prius will accelerate about the same. Different cars have different accelerator feel. I recently rented a Ford Fusion Hybrid. It felt like a dog to me. That's not actually the case with the car--I was wasn't used to the accelerator pedal is all.

I own a Prius. I'm not left in the dust accelerating from a stoplight. I have no issues merging on the freeway. I have no issues driving the speed limit in the mountains--I find myself passing more Subarus than vice versa, quite honestly.

Prius' don't depreciate very fast. Assuming you keep cars for a while, I don't know that used makes tremendous sense. If you want exciting to drive, neither an Outback nor a Prius is that--get a Subaru WRX or a VW GTI or something like that instead. Both cars you're discussing are the wrong choice if "fun" and "excitement" are the keywords.

Prius' are super-cheap to own. They never break. They are the perfect car for people who don't want spend a lot of time thinking about cars. It gets me and my bike (and a whole bunch of other stuff when needed) wherever I want to go with no fuss. For me the excitement is generally awaiting at my destination and not on the way.

Finally, the Prius is a polarizing vehicle. Most of the bad things you hear about them are from people who've never actually owned one. On the other hand, you'll read people who say they drove theirs to the top of Mt.
Everest and got 100 MPGs along the way. That didn't happen either. If you leave the amazing reports and the "warning, warning, danger, danger" comments on the internet aside and focus on the in-between reports, you'll get a good idea of what the car is all about.

*3!4!/5! · Post by *3!4!/5! » Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:56 pm

jthokie4 wrote:We enjoyed our V6 2012 Outback, but didn't enjoy the ~20 mpg gas mileage. We traded it in for a 2012 Prius V, and netted about $8k in the transaction. How many people get cash BACK when they trade in a car???

We really enjoy the Prius V. It is really versatile, and has all the space of the Outback, while getting twice the gas mileage of our old V6. As someone pointed out, its really nice filling up a 10-gallon tank for around $20 and going 400 miles on it. Feels liberating, being able to travel so cheaply. We even car-camped in the trunk on a long summer road trip, and enjoyed the a/c that can run on battery while the engine only needs to intermittently crank on.

Then, we moved to Colorado, and occasionally miss the ground clearance and AWD to get us to some of the rougher 4WD trailheads. But the Prius can still access so much. I really like the hybrid powertrain, and don't think I will ever go back to a regular internal combustion engine. If only they would make a version that has AWD and the ground clearance of the Outback, it would be the perfect car.

We may be replacing our 2002 Subaru Outback (fix/maintain or replace decision pending) and are looking at similar-size wagon-esque vehicles, so the Prius v wagon is one to consider. But I was looking at interior photos and the back row looks to have big hard hinges (for folding down) that look like they could dig into you, and it looks like the middle back passenger is assigned a pretty narrow space. Any comments on this seating configuration. (With 3 growing kids, who will approach adult size during the life of the car, this seat is an important consideration. This Prius v wagon has a lot going for it, but this seat looks terrible.)