Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

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Broadway2018
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Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

So I made the mistake of buying a 2015 Subaru Outback Loaded w/ crash detection (eyesight). Needless to say this cost me $36k and I financed it. I can make the payments and have no trouble except now I realize I should be investing that money instead of paying down a vehicle. I owe $26k on it still and most dealers are giving around $24k for the car.

Should I keep it longer and just pay it off? Or should I eat the difference and buy a $10-15k vehicle? My thought is I paid most of the depreciation so there will not be much in the coming years.
rxjayhawk
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by rxjayhawk »

I would keep it. You can afford the payment, you've taken the hit on depreciation and if you maintain the car it will last 200000 miles easily
dbr
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by dbr »

As of today you are in position to buy a 2105 Outback for $24K. That is probably a pretty good deal on a car that you know the previous owner has kept in good shape. It doesn't make sense not to make this purchase.

The fact that you spent more than you could afford for a car two years ago is water under the bridge.
NorCalDad
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by NorCalDad »

Hard to say without knowing your full financial picture. If your retirement savings is on track and you have enough money for emergencies, then keep the car for many years. If you have very little savings, you're driving too much car for your situation.
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

Thank you for the responses! I have about $15k cash I could go buy a car with and not have a payment. Or I could apply the $15k to this car and just pay it off faster. My loan is at 2.24%. I really am leaning towards keeping it, however, have searched the used car market. I could get a Toyota Rav4 with 40-50k miles for about $15k, however, like many pointed out, I would not know the history. In addition, it would not have crash detection and other amenities.
mortfree
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by mortfree »

Invest the $15k (or some of it) and keep the car.




.
Nearly A Moose
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Nearly A Moose »

mortfree wrote:Invest the $15k (or some of it) and keep the car.




.
+1

Plus, I love my 2015 Subaru Forester...
Pardon typos, I'm probably using my fat thumbs on a tiny phone.
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beyou
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by beyou »

Buying a new car and maintaining it for many years, is the economical thing to so, not only at this point,
but arguably might have been a good idea to start with. Don't lose sleep over this.
RudyS
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by RudyS »

All those safety features are wonderful! Not just crash avoidance, but rear cross-traffic alert. Keep the car! I have a 2015 Outback and would not turn loose of it. If you overpaid two years ago, just forget that.
finite_difference
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by finite_difference »

Nearly A Moose wrote:
mortfree wrote:Invest the $15k (or some of it) and keep the car.
.
+1
Plus, I love my 2015 Subaru Forester...
+1. Keep it for 10-15 years and take good care of it.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
sherwink
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Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by sherwink »

Bogleheads buy quality products, at a reasonable price, take excellent care of them for its life, drive them until the wheels come off and move on. Don't skimp on maintenance, nor ignore problems, just don't keep up with the mass advertised hyped of wanting new every year. It's a very simple matter of what you truly need, versus what advertising says you should currently want.
Calli114
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Calli114 »

Live and learn; it's a lot of sunk cost already. And there's no guarantee buying a used car will free up your money for investment, since you might run into unexpected repairs.
I'm on my second Outback now, with hopes of keeping it > 10 yrs/100K miles, whichever comes last. You have a good, safe car.
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tcassette
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by tcassette »

Keeping the car is your best bet, especially if you can pay off the loan faster. Some minimally painful things to consider (if they apply) to free up extra payment money are:
Brownbag your lunch for work instead of eating out.
Prepare and eat more meals at home instead of eating out.
Cut out the 100+ channels you don't watch from your cable/satellite service.
Don't get the latest cell phone and package.
lazydavid
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by lazydavid »

dbr wrote:As of today you are in position to buy a 2105 Outback for $24K. That is probably a pretty good deal on a car that you know the previous owner has kept in good shape. It doesn't make sense not to make this purchase.

The fact that you spent more than you could afford for a car two years ago is water under the bridge.
This is the right way of looking at it. You've paid $12k to drive a new car for the past two years, and now you can choose to keep the same car long-term for another $24k, or not. As of today, that's a good deal. The sunk costs are gone, but the "sunk maintenance" is golden.

At 2.24%, I would not pre-pay the loan. Presumably you can do something with the $15k that will earn a risk-adjusted return of at least 2.3%.
samsmith
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by samsmith »

Congrats on purchasing a great car.
Eyesight is great safety feature.
Keep it for 10 years or more.
abonder
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by abonder »

I agree with the replies so far to keep the car as long as it's not too much of a burden. In buying and selling automobiles, there's a large transactional cost so it's (generally) better to keep your vehicle and use it for as long as possible. Sure, spending 36k on a fully-optioned outback isn't the most frugal approach to managing your transportation needs, but it's hardly reckless. You bought a new, general reliable, practical car that doesn't depreciate that rapidly (meaning that buying used wouldn't have necessarily been a clear win). Now enjoy the car, maintain it, and fight the urge to upgrade in a couple of years. Had you bought an unreliable vehicle or one that doesn't serve your needs, then I would give more consideration to making a change. I wouldn't consider this to be a terrible financial mistake!
harrychan
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by harrychan »

No brainer. Keep it. You already took the hit on the depreciation. A car should never be thought of as an investment alternative. It is a utility and leave it as that.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
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William4u
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by William4u »

If buying the car prevented you from maxing out your 401k and IRA, then it was NOT something you could afford (in the sense of "I can afford to buy this and put plenty into a comfortable retirement and an emergency fund"). You should probably calculate how much you should be saving per year for retirement (it depends on so many factors, such as your age and expenses and how much you have saved already, but 20% is pretty typical given that many wait until they are aged 30 or more to start saving in earnest).

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Boglehe ... philosophy

That said, I probably would not sell now, since it has depreciated a lot already and replacing it probably won't save a whole lot at this point. However, if selling it now (to get an older car with more miles on it) just to get $10,000 is something that would substantially help you get on track for retirement, then you definitely bought too much car in the first place.
lazydavid
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by lazydavid »

William4u wrote:That said, I probably would not sell now, since it has depreciated a lot already and replacing it probably won't save a whole lot at this point. However, if selling it now (to get an older car with more miles on it) just to get $10,000 is something that would substantially help you get on track for retirement, then you definitely bought too much car in the first place.
He wouldn't even get $10k. Remember, he's $2k underwater on the current loan. He'd basically be paying $15k to pay off the loan that is $2k underwater and buy a 5+ year old car, plus get out of whatever the monthly payment is. Even assuming the worst case of nothing down, that's at most $6.4k/year or $535/mo, since he's paid off $10k in two years.

So after the first year, he's almost $9k worse off than he is today, from a purely cash perspective. Making the change doesn't get him cash positive for 2.5 years, and that's assuming not a penny of the current monthly payment gets spent elsewhere. Realistically more like 3. At which point there's just one year left of payments. So the alternative is really: Drive an older car long-term and be cash poor (relatively speaking) for 3 years, in order to save one year's worth of car payments 3 years from now.
Last edited by lazydavid on Mon May 22, 2017 6:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
mckaydw
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by mckaydw »

I agree with most posts so far, but also want to offer another perspective.

Soon after getting my first real job I bought a brand new Subaru Forester Premium w/ all weather package. It was a great car. But a year and a half later I was sick of making payments that I could easily afford but were preventing meaningful investing. I decided to downgrade to a Honda Civic several years older than the Subaru. I "saved" about $7k making the change, and "lost" about another $7k on the whole deal, compared to what I would have paid if I bought the civic right away. Taxes and depreciation are killer on new cars.

Six years later I'm mostly glad I did it. Saving $7k didn't change that much money wise, but it was a great SIGN to myself of the kind of life I want to live. The civic now has over 175k miles and has been completely reliable. Occasionally I wish I kept the Subaru.

If I were in your shoes, I would probably sell the Subaru, but only if I was willing to downgrade to a less expensive type of car, and be happy with that car for many years.

Whatever you do, set up automatic retirement investments immediately.
Gary Guss
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Gary Guss »

Keep it untill it explodes
jharkin
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by jharkin »

In business this is what we call a "sunk cost" No point in dwelling on it since selling at this point is only going to lock in a loss.

Keep it and pay it off. Find cashflow to pay that loan down more aggressively so you are not underwater and end up owing extra if you total the car and the insurance wont pay it off. Once it is paid off, keep putting the monthly note into a high yield savings so you can buy the next car cash.
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

Thank you everyone for the advice! I really appreciate it!

mckaydw, you nailed how I feel. The extra money won't have a long term impact. However, I owe $26k and could easily go pick up a car for $15k off the lot with low miles. This would help me start investing early. I am going to look at a 2013 RAV4 this week, if I don't like, I will keep the Subaru. If I am fine driving it, i will just go ahead and trade in my Subaru. I hate to see it go, but if I had $24k cash I would not buy this car and would probably go with something cheaper. That is how I am looking at it.

Also, I should have mentioned I work at home and rarely drive. So the need for a car is minimal. I just have this expensive vehicle sitting in my garage. I wish I could go without a car totally, however, cannot since I do not live within walking or biking distance to anything.
lazydavid
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by lazydavid »

kwarden13 wrote:mckaydw, you nailed how I feel. The extra money won't have a long term impact. However, I owe $26k and could easily go pick up a car for $15k off the lot with low miles. This would help me start investing early.
You know what would also help you start investing early? Investing the $15k in cash today instead of sinking it into a car. If you put that money into a car today, it will be almost 3 years before you get it back in terms of savings on your monthly payment. This delays your investment.
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deanbrew
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by deanbrew »

I also think you should keep the Subaru. It's a very nice, reliable car. And you've already taken the largest depreciation hit - the first two years of ownership. Actually, nearly three, as the 2018 models will be out in about four months. I would chalk this up as a learning lesson, as selling it isn't going to net you a whole lot of money after you factor in transaction costs.

But if you do decide to sell and trade down, you really should sell the car on your own, NOT trade it in. The reason dealers are only offering $24k is because they want to make $3k by reselling your nearly new car. Do you see prices for similar 2015 Outbacks on cars.com and autotrader.com? Subarus generally hold their value pretty well, so I don't see how you've lost $12k in value in 2-3 years.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
badger42
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by badger42 »

As others have alluded to here, if you go through a dealer, the bid/ask spread on a car is 10% or more of the value.

If you sell, try to both sell via a private party, and buy the replacement via a private party sale.

However, you have a vehicle that's not *that* much more expensive than the replacement, has a known maintenance history, and has a ton of safety features that might actually be more valuable for an infrequent driver (since it can be hard to keep driving skills up if you rarely drive). Unless you can replace it with a bicycle, bus pass or a good pair of walking shoes, I would seriously consider keeping it.

Edit: if it's the second car in the household (this was not clear), you could also consider replacing it with Uber/Lyft if they're in your area. It's a cheap way to take the occasional trip, without having to own a car at all.
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

badger42 wrote:As others have alluded to here, if you go through a dealer, the bid/ask spread on a car is 10% or more of the value.

If you sell, try to both sell via a private party, and buy the replacement via a private party sale.

However, you have a vehicle that's not *that* much more expensive than the replacement, has a known maintenance history, and has a ton of safety features that might actually be more valuable for an infrequent driver (since it can be hard to keep driving skills up if you rarely drive). Unless you can replace it with a bicycle, bus pass or a good pair of walking shoes, I would seriously consider keeping it.

Edit: if it's the second car in the household (this was not clear), you could also consider replacing it with Uber/Lyft if they're in your area. It's a cheap way to take the occasional trip, without having to own a car at all.
I am confused why people say not that much money. It's at least a $9k difference and maybe more if I go down to a $10k car. The difference would be between $9k-15k depending on what the replacement would cost. Maybe I am missing something.
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deanbrew
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by deanbrew »

What exact model do you have? Limited? 4 or 6 cylinder? Did you actually pay $36k, or was that the MSRP? How many miles does your car have on it? Have you looked for similar vehicles near you on cars.com and autotrader.com?
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

deanbrew wrote:What exact model do you have? Limited? 4 or 6 cylinder? Did you actually pay $36k, or was that the MSRP? How many miles does your car have on it? Have you looked for similar vehicles near you on cars.com and autotrader.com?
I have the Limited model w/ eyesight, nav, everything and it is a 4 cylinder. I actually paid $36k and it has 28k miles.
Wakefield1
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Wakefield1 »

My vote is to keep it as long as it does what it is supposed to do. As others have said If a mistake was made in buying too expensive the mistake is mostly water under the bridge already. Try for at least 10 years and preferably 15 from a car.
Another car would be at least as apt as this one to be a lemon.
I would try to change the oil using a good synthetic and personally get under the car at least once a year to look for rust (after washing the underside (following the end of road salt season and the first good rain that washes the destructive salt off of the roads) with a waterwand or something the day before,driving it a couple miles after the washing to dry it off) and spray some silicone on the CV joint rubber boots and suspension rubber parts. Otherwise try to find a good mechanic to do such things who you can trust so as to stay out of those quicky franchise oil change shops. No heavy acceleration after a cold start until the heater is able to blow warmth or the temperature gauge begins to register. So as hopefully to avoid a blown head gasket. Also pay attention to the coolant,don't mix the wrong kinds of antifreeze and pay attention to special fluids in the 4 wheel drive system cases.

Whenever possible avoid driving on salted roads.
badger42
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by badger42 »

kwarden13 wrote:
badger42 wrote:As others have alluded to here, if you go through a dealer, the bid/ask spread on a car is 10% or more of the value.

If you sell, try to both sell via a private party, and buy the replacement via a private party sale.

However, you have a vehicle that's not *that* much more expensive than the replacement, has a known maintenance history, and has a ton of safety features that might actually be more valuable for an infrequent driver (since it can be hard to keep driving skills up if you rarely drive). Unless you can replace it with a bicycle, bus pass or a good pair of walking shoes, I would seriously consider keeping it.

Edit: if it's the second car in the household (this was not clear), you could also consider replacing it with Uber/Lyft if they're in your area. It's a cheap way to take the occasional trip, without having to own a car at all.
I am confused why people say not that much money. It's at least a $9k difference and maybe more if I go down to a $10k car. The difference would be between $9k-15k depending on what the replacement would cost. Maybe I am missing something.
Well, you start at 10k saved.

Then you subtract maybe $500 in direct transaction costs (taxes, registration, etc)

Then you subtract a couple thousand for deferred maintenance on the new acquisition

Then you have to replace the car sooner because you now have an older vehicle

It's really not that big of a win
PeterWander8
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by PeterWander8 »

If you get rid of it, will you need a second car? if so, then did you factor it in? if you don't need the car, then yah, get rid of it, not only do you save on car cost, but also insurance, gas, maint..etc.etc.
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

So I test drove a Toyota Camry and Subaru Legacy. Both are 2014 Certified. I really like the Subaru Legacy much better and the Subaru dealer is willing to give me more money on my trade.

The certified 2014 Subaru Legacy base model w/ 50k miles is coming to $15k out the door. Thoughts?
mortfree
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by mortfree »

kwarden13 wrote:So I test drove a Toyota Camry and Subaru Legacy. Both are 2014 Certified. I really like the Subaru Legacy much better and the Subaru dealer is willing to give me more money on my trade.

The certified 2014 Subaru Legacy base model w/ 50k miles is coming to $15k out the door. Thoughts?
I think you are tripping over dollars to save nickels.

At 50k on a 2014 that is a high mileage car in just 3 years. How many miles are on your 2015?

I still say keep your current vehicle.
TheGreyingDuke
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

kwarden13 wrote:So I test drove a Toyota Camry and Subaru Legacy. Both are 2014 Certified. I really like the Subaru Legacy much better and the Subaru dealer is willing to give me more money on my trade.

The certified 2014 Subaru Legacy base model w/ 50k miles is coming to $15k out the door. Thoughts?
Try this exercise...

Assume that you will keep your current vehicle and the 2014 Legacy until they are 10 years old. Next, do a computation of what the all-in costs would be over that time, including depreciation and "salvage" cost when sold. I suspect that there will not be that much of a difference between your two choices, not enough to compensate you for the fewer features and the hassle.

Remember, you are selling a car at a wholesale price and buying one at the retail, the spread is a killer.

I agree with others, this is a sunk cost, let it be your mantra for the next decades to keep you on the path.
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." H.G. Wells
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

mortfree wrote:
kwarden13 wrote:So I test drove a Toyota Camry and Subaru Legacy. Both are 2014 Certified. I really like the Subaru Legacy much better and the Subaru dealer is willing to give me more money on my trade.

The certified 2014 Subaru Legacy base model w/ 50k miles is coming to $15k out the door. Thoughts?
I think you are tripping over dollars to save nickels.

At 50k on a 2014 that is a high mileage car in just 3 years. How many miles are on your 2015?

I still say keep your current vehicle.
I can pay off the Subaru Legacy in about 1.5 years vs the Subaru Outback in 3-3.5 years. That is why I am trying to sell. It's about $11k more. If I were to buy a car today on a dealer lot and had cash, I would not pay $26k for my Subaru Outback. I would find something cheaper for about $15k - this includes taxes, fees, etc.. So it immediately reduces my debt by $11k. I am still not sure how the math works out to be the same. I am trying to figure it out.
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deanbrew
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by deanbrew »

kwarden13 wrote:
mortfree wrote:
kwarden13 wrote:So I test drove a Toyota Camry and Subaru Legacy. Both are 2014 Certified. I really like the Subaru Legacy much better and the Subaru dealer is willing to give me more money on my trade.

The certified 2014 Subaru Legacy base model w/ 50k miles is coming to $15k out the door. Thoughts?
I think you are tripping over dollars to save nickels.

At 50k on a 2014 that is a high mileage car in just 3 years. How many miles are on your 2015?

I still say keep your current vehicle.
I can pay off the Subaru Legacy in about 1.5 years vs the Subaru Outback in 3-3.5 years. That is why I am trying to sell. It's about $11k more. If I were to buy a car today on a dealer lot and had cash, I would not pay $26k for my Subaru Outback. I would find something cheaper for about $15k - this includes taxes, fees, etc.. So it immediately reduces my debt by $11k. I am still not sure how the math works out to be the same. I am trying to figure it out.
I think what you are missing is you will have a car that is one model year older and has many more miles. Those factors are directly related to what each vehicle is worth. Which one to keep depends on how many miles a year you drive, how long you expect to keep the vehicle, and what happens if there is a total loss due to accident or theft. You also need to carefully think about transaction costs and the wholesale/retail spread.

Now, having said that, you will no doubt be able to pocket some money if you make this trade. But you will also incur registration, taxes and other costs. And by trading, the dealer will give you wholesale on your current car. And in two years, four years, six years, whatever, you will own a car that is older and has more miles and is worth less than if you keep the Outback. That will impact your next car purchase, unless you really do keep either cars for 10 years or more, at which point either one would be worth very little. But, even if you keep for the long haul, the one with 50k miles will probably wear out quicker than the one with fewer miles (assuming your car has many less miles).

You seem very intent on reducing your debt and saving money, and it's pushing you toward trading. I understand it to a degree... it bothers you to have an expensive asset sitting in your garage. Not only did you spend more than you wish you had, you are not even using it and enjoying it very much. If you were driving 10-15k miles a year, I'd say it would be a no-brainer to keep the newer, nicer car with more features. But if you are driving very little, then perhaps a cheaper car isn't a bad move. But what many are pointing out is that while you might save some money and interest, the difference probably isn't as much as you think, or as critical to your financial well-being as you think.

FWIW, I have a 2011 Subaru Legacy and I like it a lot.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

deanbrew wrote: I think what you are missing is you will have a car that is one model year older and has many more miles. Those factors are directly related to what each vehicle is worth. Which one to keep depends on how many miles a year you drive, how long you expect to keep the vehicle, and what happens if there is a total loss due to accident or theft. You also need to carefully think about transaction costs and the wholesale/retail spread.

Now, having said that, you will no doubt be able to pocket some money if you make this trade. But you will also incur registration, taxes and other costs. And by trading, the dealer will give you wholesale on your current car. And in two years, four years, six years, whatever, you will own a car that is older and has more miles and is worth less than if you keep the Outback. That will impact your next car purchase, unless you really do keep either cars for 10 years or more, at which point either one would be worth very little. But, even if you keep for the long haul, the one with 50k miles will probably wear out quicker than the one with fewer miles (assuming your car has many less miles).

You seem very intent on reducing your debt and saving money, and it's pushing you toward trading. I understand it to a degree... it bothers you to have an expensive asset sitting in your garage. Not only did you spend more than you wish you had, you are not even using it and enjoying it very much. If you were driving 10-15k miles a year, I'd say it would be a no-brainer to keep the newer, nicer car with more features. But if you are driving very little, then perhaps a cheaper car isn't a bad move. But what many are pointing out is that while you might save some money and interest, the difference probably isn't as much as you think, or as critical to your financial well-being as you think.

FWIW, I have a 2011 Subaru Legacy and I like it a lot.
Thank you very much for the explanation. I do see other people's point and am looking for a calculator to see what the true cost of ownership would be. I do only have 28k miles on my car and the legacy has 50k miles, however, I would drive maybe 10k miles max a year. I work at work so do not drive to work. Prior when I bought the car, I was driving a lot - my fiance and I were long distance and we would regularly drive 250-300 miles each weekend to meet up. Now we are living together and I work at home so much less driving.
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Trading a 15 Forester Limited for a 14 Legacy base? What are the costs involved?

Dealer bogus doc fee (this is actually just dealer profit, there is no doc cost to the dealer)
Sales tax, if in your state.
Dealers make typically $2k on used cars. So figure value wise, you're losing $2k on your car and paying $2k too much on the replacement car.

This is a huge losing deal. Should I also point out that the 50k mile car is OUT of factory bumper to bumper warranty and 10k away from powertrain warranty being over? I'll point out also that the CVT transmission is a non-servicable item and it's sketchy enough that I will never buy a car with one again. Cost is $8k to replace. How do I know this? Our Subaru just had it replaced. Your Forester has lower miles so a better chance of getting some miles before your transmission implodes.

I plan to buy another Subaru (we have 2 now), but only with a manual transmission. If you want a 7 year/100k mile Subaru gold warranty, contact Mastria Subaru (no affiliation, I did my research) as they'll be much cheaper than your subaru dealer ($2k at your dealer, $1.6k at Mastria).

If you feel you MUST get out from under the cost of the Forester, sell it privately and then pick up something like a 5 year old manual Focus for near nothing. You will save actual money doing this.
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote:Trading a 15 Forester Limited for a 14 Legacy base? What are the costs involved?

Dealer bogus doc fee (this is actually just dealer profit, there is no doc cost to the dealer)
Sales tax, if in your state.
Dealers make typically $2k on used cars. So figure value wise, you're losing $2k on your car and paying $2k too much on the replacement car.

This is a huge losing deal. Should I also point out that the 50k mile car is OUT of factory bumper to bumper warranty and 10k away from powertrain warranty being over? I'll point out also that the CVT transmission is a non-servicable item and it's sketchy enough that I will never buy a car with one again. Cost is $8k to replace. How do I know this? Our Subaru just had it replaced. Your Forester has lower miles so a better chance of getting some miles before your transmission implodes.

I plan to buy another Subaru (we have 2 now), but only with a manual transmission. If you want a 7 year/100k mile Subaru gold warranty, contact Mastria Subaru (no affiliation, I did my research) as they'll be much cheaper than your subaru dealer ($2k at your dealer, $1.6k at Mastria).

If you feel you MUST get out from under the cost of the Forester, sell it privately and then pick up something like a 5 year old manual Focus for near nothing. You will save actual money doing this.
I have a 2015 Subaru Outback Limited w/ 28k miles that I owe $26k on. The Subaru Legacy is a certified 2014 base model w/ 50k miles and has a 7 year 100k mile warranty and they are asking $15k out the door including my trade. I think this is a fair deal based on my research since Carmax only offered my $23k for my car and the Subaru dealer is giving me what I owe and their car is around the kbb value. Also, the dealers only fee is $299. So I am paying the car price and the $299 fee + tags/title. No tax since I am trading in a more expensive vehicle.

Thoughts?
mortfree
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by mortfree »

kwarden13 wrote:
Thoughts?
You're just waiting for 1 person to agree with you...
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

mortfree wrote:
kwarden13 wrote:
Thoughts?
You're just waiting for 1 person to agree with you...
I am trying to figure out the math. When I put everything into a total cost to own calculator, I see the Subaru Legacy costing $6k less over 5 years and a $9k difference over 10 years. So trying to figure out how I would not be saving?
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Admiral »

This post it the exact reason we see so many "should I buy this car?" posts on the forum. Nobody wants to be in this position, so I feel for you.

Here's a slightly different take, perhaps. You're talking about spending 15k on a car with 40-50k miles for which you don't know the history and with fewer safety features, or keeping a car for 24k with much fewer miles on which you do have the history and modern safety features.

In my view, now that it's a sunk cost, you might as well keep the Subie based on the mileage alone. If you put, say, 7k miles on the car per year, you could easily drive the Subie for 10-15 more years with some basic maintenance post warranty. But the Rav4 (or whatever) will likely incur more maintenance due to its greater mileage. And, not only that, but the lack of safety features will be quite glaring in as few as five years, much less ten or more.

Also if you invested the difference (say, 9k) in 2% bonds your investment would return $1971 after ten years, before taxes. That's not a whole lot.

Also the Legacy and the Outback are two totally different cars. Presumably you bought the Outback for a reason? Has that reason now changed?
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

Admiral wrote:This post it the exact reason we see so many "should I buy this car?" posts on the forum. Nobody wants to be in this position, so I feel for you.

Here's a slightly different take, perhaps. You're talking about spending 15k on a car with 40-50k miles for which you don't know the history and with fewer safety features, or keeping a car for 24k with much fewer miles on which you do have the history and modern safety features.

In my view, now that it's a sunk cost, you might as well keep the Subie based on the mileage alone. If you put, say, 7k miles on the car per year, you could easily drive the Subie for 10-15 more years with some basic maintenance post warranty. But the Rav4 (or whatever) will likely incur more maintenance due to its greater mileage. And, not only that, but the lack of safety features will be quite glaring in as few as five years, much less ten or more.

Also if you invested the difference (say, 9k) in 2% bonds your investment would return $1971 after ten years, before taxes. That's not a whole lot.

Also the Legacy and the Outback are two totally different cars. Presumably you bought the Outback for a reason? Has that reason now changed?
I bought the Outback because I liked it. I had a 2013 Outback and really liked it. I should have just kept it, but wanted all the new features and was careless with money so bought a 2015 Outback for $36k. I really have no reason for an SUV or large vehicle other than I liked driving it. I do not have kids or anything like that and work at home. I liked the Legacy because it felt the same as driving the Outback but more economical.
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Admiral »

kwarden13 wrote:
Admiral wrote:This post it the exact reason we see so many "should I buy this car?" posts on the forum. Nobody wants to be in this position, so I feel for you.

Here's a slightly different take, perhaps. You're talking about spending 15k on a car with 40-50k miles for which you don't know the history and with fewer safety features, or keeping a car for 24k with much fewer miles on which you do have the history and modern safety features.

In my view, now that it's a sunk cost, you might as well keep the Subie based on the mileage alone. If you put, say, 7k miles on the car per year, you could easily drive the Subie for 10-15 more years with some basic maintenance post warranty. But the Rav4 (or whatever) will likely incur more maintenance due to its greater mileage. And, not only that, but the lack of safety features will be quite glaring in as few as five years, much less ten or more.

Also if you invested the difference (say, 9k) in 2% bonds your investment would return $1971 after ten years, before taxes. That's not a whole lot.

Also the Legacy and the Outback are two totally different cars. Presumably you bought the Outback for a reason? Has that reason now changed?
I bought the Outback because I liked it. I had a 2013 Outback and really liked it. I should have just kept it, but wanted all the new features and was careless with money so bought a 2015 Outback for $36k. I really have no reason for an SUV or large vehicle other than I liked driving it. I do not have kids or anything like that and work at home. I liked the Legacy because it felt the same as driving the Outback but more economical.
Have you tried pricing it on the private market? A dealer is the last place to go in terms of maximum value. Outbacks hold their value well. Perhaps you might feel better if you could sell it privately for 30k? If it has low mileage this could be a good deal for someone. Is is 3.6 or 2.5 motor? The new 3.6L fully optioned are like 42k. I know because I test drove them in Jan.
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by deanbrew »

Admiral wrote:Also the Legacy and the Outback are two totally different cars. Presumably you bought the Outback for a reason? Has that reason now changed?
The Legacy and Outback are not two totally different cars. They are based on the same platform and are highly similar. They are the same size and have the same interior and drivetrain. The Outback is essentially the station wagon (raised and tarted-up a tad) version of the Legacy.
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Broadway2018
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Broadway2018 »

Admiral wrote: Have you tried pricing it on the private market? A dealer is the last place to go in terms of maximum value. Outbacks hold their value well. Perhaps you might feel better if you could sell it privately for 30k? If it has low mileage this could be a good deal for someone. Is is 3.6 or 2.5 motor? The new 3.6L fully optioned are like 42k. I know because I test drove them in Jan.
I have a 2015 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5i w/ eyesight, nav, moonroof, etc.. The price I paid originally was $36k, I owe $26k, and Carmax offered $24k. I have it listed right now for $26,900, however, no one has contacted me in a week. The dealer is offering $25k essentially plus I get the tax benefits.
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Admiral »

deanbrew wrote:
Admiral wrote:Also the Legacy and the Outback are two totally different cars. Presumably you bought the Outback for a reason? Has that reason now changed?
The Legacy and Outback are not two totally different cars. They are based on the same platform and are highly similar. They are the same size and have the same interior and drivetrain. The Outback is essentially the station wagon (raised and tarted-up a tad) version of the Legacy.
You just made my point. One is a station wagon and one is a sedan. That's a big difference. Maybe the OP hauls a lot of gear or needs the higher ground clearance in snow? People who buy 4WD wagons typically do it for a specific reason. Presumable the Legacy and Outback were next to each other in the showroom...
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by Admiral »

kwarden13 wrote:
Admiral wrote: Have you tried pricing it on the private market? A dealer is the last place to go in terms of maximum value. Outbacks hold their value well. Perhaps you might feel better if you could sell it privately for 30k? If it has low mileage this could be a good deal for someone. Is is 3.6 or 2.5 motor? The new 3.6L fully optioned are like 42k. I know because I test drove them in Jan.
I have a 2015 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5i w/ eyesight, nav, moonroof, etc.. The price I paid originally was $36k, I owe $26k, and Carmax offered $24k. I have it listed right now for $26,900, however, no one has contacted me in a week. The dealer is offering $25k essentially plus I get the tax benefits.
I guess I don't understand your logic. You've paid 10k on 36k, and will get 25k if you sell to the dealer, and owe 1k. So, you sell. Then you've spent 11k and have no car. THEN you're going to spend another 15k for another car? So you will have spent 15k + 11k = 26k? For a car with 50k miles instead of what you have now? That makes no sense.

Or you're trading a 25k car for a 15k car with more mileage?

Keep it.
multiham
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Re: Sell 2015 Subaru or Keep?

Post by multiham »

I would not give this a second thought. Just keep the car. You bought it for a reason, you can afford it, and if any of the safety devices ever help you, it is well worth it.

Please know that I am not a hard core Boglehead. I love the philosophies, but use them as a guide, not a mandate. I like cars and will always have a car (while I'm working) that is no older than 6 or 7 years or even newer if technology changes enough. I do not travel extensively or eat at fancy restaurants (by my choice) so I tend to spend less in this area than others.
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