Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

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MrDogg
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Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by MrDogg » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:54 pm

My wife has been bugging me to sell our single family home and move into a Continuing Care Retirement Community (CCRC). We are both 73, retired, currently in good health, and contemplating where to go once we downsize from our current oversize abode. These developments are part independent living, part assisted living and part skilled nursing home, CCRCs offer a tiered approach to the aging process, accommodating residents’ changing needs. They are rather expensive but they do provide a high level of care giving as the need arises.

The closet one we are considering is John Knox Village in Pompano Beach, Florida and I must say that the facility is rather impressive with well manicured grounds, optional living units (villas or apartments) and pretty good reviews from folks living there.

I would like to hear thoughts and comments especially from those of you that have some experience with this concept. Wife is sold on it, I'm not.

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David Jay
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by David Jay » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:55 pm

No personal experience, but my Dad's lifetime best friend and wife hosted us in their Retirement Community home. They were probably in their late 70s at the time.

They were delighted with the facilities and the residents. Complete independence with the assurance of assisted living if/when they needed it.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius

stats99
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by stats99 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:58 pm

You need to review the finances of the organization. This an expensive long term commitment.

curmudgeon
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by curmudgeon » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:59 pm

We've had three family members (or couples) in the older generation of our family go this route. I think all have been pretty well satisfied with their choice. It's definitely something to approach with some care and investigation about the specific facility. You need to look not only at the space, amenities, and cost, but also the financial soundness and how you would fit into the population. FIL/MIL moved to large CCRC when they were near your age and have been very happy with their choice.

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Shackleton
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by Shackleton » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:06 pm

My mother moved into one (in Independent Living) here in CO in 2009. A few years later she needed to move to AL and she was put at the top of the waiting list since she was already a resident and was able to move within 2 weeks. A few years after that, she needed to move to memory care and again was moved to the top of the waiting list and was able to move within 5 day (that was just our luck, but someone else's tragedy.) The community my mom lives in didn't require any down payments and she's always been on month to month billing. No idea what it's like to to in a CCRC where you are required to put a large amount down. But the ability to quickly move her from one level to the next has been awesome.
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delamer
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by delamer » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:11 pm

My mother lived in a CCRC for the last 15 years of her life -- 14.5 years in her independent apartment and 6 months in skilled nursing. She made many friends and was treated well by the staff. The place reminded me of a cruise ship in the sense that there were many activities and residents could partake, or not, as they chose. As with any communal or semi-communal living situation, you won't love every rule but the residents did have a voice.

As an only child who lived out of state, the security of knowing she was safe and would be cared for if needed was invaluable to me. The social workers and nurses there were the people who cautioned me when she started to develop dementia and were invaluable in setting up a care plan when that happened.

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ram
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by ram » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:26 pm

A recent issue of consumers report has an article on it with tips about what you should review before making the decision.
Ram

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celia
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by celia » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:22 pm

MrDogg wrote:The closet one we are considering is John Knox Village...
THAT is quite a downsize you are considering! :wink:

A relative was considering moving to a retirement village, but after many visits to friends there, she decided against it. There were no kids happily playing outside and she often noticed saw a hearse drive by. It seemed "too quiet" to her.


Carl53
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by Carl53 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:11 pm

We stayed as guests for two nights at a local CCRC that my inlaws were considering. A number of their friends lived there and we were quite impressed with the place. It was adjacent to the local community hospital. Comparing the prices of the midwest located CCRC and the Florida site you are considering, the upfront price on the local one was about half of the Florida site. The monthly fees were similar but all meals were included at the local site. We found the meals to be very good.

In the end my inlaws declined to move there hoping to pass sooner than later in their rural isolated location and preserve their modest assets for their progeny. I'll note that none offspring have a dire need for the inheritance although the one with the most limited income has made some poor choices and hints around at being able to use the inheritance. A year and half later, they are still living in their home of 60 plus years. Mom may try to go to town once a week when Dad is sleeping which he does excessively. We and another daughter&husband visit often (and to shuttle them to doctors 20 miles away) but it often is quite depressing as they go on about their health issues and complaining about how various relatives are living their lives. Their friends at the CCRC enjoyed one anothers company at meals and during activities. While the inlaws seem to delight with interaction with friends or others they happen to see when out, they made their choice to live at the old homestead. When major things break, like the recent septic tank collapse or water heater failure they are just besides themselves. The house really needs a roof, but they don't want to spend the money.

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MrDogg
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by MrDogg » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:44 am

Thanks to everyone who responded in such a timely manner. I appreciate the many comments and insights which I am factoring into my decision.

A special thanks to Miriam2 for providing the links to even more related information.

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MrDogg
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by MrDogg » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:45 am


Dan999
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by Dan999 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:04 pm

We are looking in to the CCRC landscape. The above links are very useful.
We found an excellent place that is very expensive to get into, and has the highest monthly fee around the area.
It has 3-5 year waiting list for a 2 bedroom unit. They have one bedrooms available immediately.
The waiting list 9 months ago was 2 years and is now 3-4 years for the type of unit we want.

We are in our early 70's and our biggest hurdle is seeing all the "old" people there. Many have walkers and some have motorized carts. Although many get around fine and are independent, they are still "old".
We signed up figuring by the time our 3-4 years comes around maybe we will be old too. The average age of residents is about 80.
The biggest consideration for us is that if something happens to me, my wife will be alone in the house and have to manage all the upkeep and will experience the loneliness of being a widow. Then she would have to move and do it all herself.

We also want to move while we are still medically qualified. If you wait until you need care, you are most likely going to be denied entrance, unless you enter a Type C contract where you pay for service at the going rate.
Also if there are 2 of you and one moves to an increased level of care, the one moving gets the same rate, but the one staying, gets a reduced monthly fee, but the combined fees are higher than the original one unit. This would be about $2,000 per month more.

I never lived in a college dorm or ate in the dining hall, so eating every dinner at a table of 5 or 6 people would be an adjustment for me, that I would expect to overcome. Everyone we talk to loves the lifestyle, so it must work. I read somewhere, it was like the freshman dorm. Can't relate, but it must be ok.

So much to consider on this type of move. Once you give them the entry fee you are committed to live there for life. You can get you fee back on a sliding 3 year scale. But then what, you sold your house and have to find another place. Moving at 78 will be difficult enough once.

Miriam2
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by Miriam2 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:14 pm

Dan999 wrote:The biggest consideration for us is that if something happens to me, my wife will be alone in the house and have to manage all the upkeep and will experience the loneliness of being a widow. Then she would have to move and do it all herself.
Carl53 wrote:In the end my inlaws declined to move there (the CCRC) hoping to pass sooner than later in their rural isolated location . . . A year and half later, they are still living in their home of 60 plus years. Mom may try to go to town once a week when Dad is sleeping which he does excessively. We and another daughter & husband visit often (and to shuttle them to doctors 20 miles away) but it often is quite depressing as they go on about their health issues and complaining about how various relatives are living their lives.

Their friends at the CCRC enjoyed one anothers company at meals and during activities. While the inlaws seem to delight with interaction with friends or others they happen to see when out, they made their choice to live at the old homestead. When major things break, like the recent septic tank collapse or water heater failure they are just besides themselves. The house really needs a roof, but they don't want to spend the money.
These two vignettes - of growing old in your old house - make a serious impression on me.

And growing old in your old house often means growing old alone - even if your spouse is still there.

To me, moving to the senior dorm often makes common sense. It may not be perfect, there may be downsides, walkers and wheel chairs and silly card games and unpleasant dining room chatter, but compared to the alternative it may be worth it.

The alternative often means increased unaddressed health problems and dangers, mental and physical isolation (even when living with your aging spouse), the tendency of unpleasant complaining and negative talk, serious cluttering and the physical inability to keep a pretty home, the difficulty dealing with repairmen, service reps, unpaid bills and messy accounts, lawnmen, snow plowers, tree trimmers, locksmiths, etc, and serious depression - your friends are gone and there is simply nothing to do. There is a simple lack of fresh sunshine and cheer.

It seems it is an individual decision and that for many, a move to some type of retirement community or senior living center will be the right decision and will pay good emotional and physical dividends. For those who have ample family support, then perhaps the decision may be different. Even then, however, moving to a retirement center may make it easier for our family, rather than leaving them to deal with an embedded relative who refuses to budge, an old cluttered house and unpleasant memories.

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celia
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by celia » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:55 pm

Dan999 wrote:The biggest consideration for us is that if something happens to me, my wife will be alone in the house and have to manage all the upkeep and will experience the loneliness of being a widow. Then she would have to move and do it all herself.
Carl53 wrote:In the end my inlaws declined to move there (the CCRC) hoping to pass sooner than later in their rural isolated location . . . A year and half later, they are still living in their home of 60 plus years. Mom may try to go to town once a week when Dad is sleeping which he does excessively. We and another daughter & husband visit often (and to shuttle them to doctors 20 miles away) but it often is quite depressing as they go on about their health issues and complaining about how various relatives are living their lives.

Their friends at the CCRC enjoyed one anothers company at meals and during activities. While the inlaws seem to delight with interaction with friends or others they happen to see when out, they made their choice to live at the old homestead. When major things break, like the recent septic tank collapse or water heater failure they are just besides themselves. The house really needs a roof, but they don't want to spend the money.
I like these two stories as well, but can't wait to live by myself in my house. I know how to call repairmen and have the money for it. By then, I would not have to take care of the various family members living with me, and those not living with me will have passed. This will give me more time to do the things I like, without having to consider the needs of others.

The only concern would be my health. If I couldn't take care of myself, the kids would do what they have to do so that I stay safe and cared for. I will likely be able to afford it and have Long Term Care insurance that would pay part of the cost. But even if I have to pay the entire cost, I should be ok.

Just take my computer with me (while I drag and scream)! :o

CULater
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by CULater » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:54 pm

I'm somewhat familiar with the John Knox CCRC in Kansas City. The Independent Living, Assisted Living, and Long Term Care facilities are in different locations. It is important to check out each one to determine how well you will be satisfied when you move. Most folks move in initially into the Independent Living facilities. These tend to be pretty nice and appealing. But the next steps might not be as attractive. Plus, there may be a waiting list to move into Assisted and then again into Long Term. How long is those waiting list? Are they going to be honest with you about that? The waiting list at John Knox for assisted living when I checked was several months long.

It's important to find out how many residents can be accommodated in Independent, Assisted, and Nursing. CCRC's make their money at the front end, when people sign up. So, it could be the case that there are scads of apartments for Independent Living and the CCRC continues to build that out to accommodate more. Are they also building out Assisted Living and Long Term Care at the same rate? I would really hate to get bottle-necked as more and more people enter CCRCs and the corresponding demand for Assisted and Long Term is also increasing.

It is only going to get worse as the number of elderly explodes in this country over coming years. If you need Assisted Living and there is a wait time, what happens? Is care provided while you remain in Independent Living? What are your costs? What about Long Term? If you have a wait, is care provided while you remain in the Assisted Living area? Typically, assisted living requires that you are mobile enough to get to and from the dining area, for example. If you can no longer do this, will meals be provided to you in your apartment? The whole Idea of CCRCs is that your costs will be contained as you move to higher levels of care. You have to pay up at the front end for this benefit. It is important to find out what's going on as you pass through the python to el muerto. Do your homework.
Last edited by CULater on Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mickeyd
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by mickeyd » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:24 pm

It is only going to get worse as the number of elderly explodes in this country over coming years.


That is the understatement of the generation. DW and I will be taking the CCRC trail soon. We have looked @ numerous places and attended dog-n-pony shows galore, along with tasty lunches.

Our deposit has been made and our children's future decisions regarding us are eliminated. As DW recently said "This is a gift to the kids."

No doubt the better CCRCs will be few and far between in short order due to the demand.
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delamer
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by delamer » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:41 pm

CULater wrote:I'm somewhat familiar with the John Knox CCRC in Kansas City. The Independent Living, Assisted Living, and Long Term Care facilities are in different locations. It is important to check out each one to determine how well you will be satisfied when you move. Most folks move in initially into the Independent Living facilities. These tend to be pretty nice and appealing. But the next steps might not be as attractive. Plus, there may be a waiting list to move into Assisted and then again into Long Term. How long is those waiting list? Are they going to be honest with you about that? The waiting list at John Knox for assisted living when I checked was several months long.

It's important to find out how many residents can be accommodated in Independent, Assisted, and Nursing. CCRC's make their money at the front end, when people sign up. So, it could be the case that there are scads of apartments for Independent Living and the CCRC continues to build that out to accommodate more. Are they also building out Assisted Living and Long Term Care at the same rate? I would really hate to get bottle-necked as more and more people enter CCRCs and the corresponding demand for Assisted and Long Term is also increasing.

It is only going to get worse as the number of elderly explodes in this country over coming years. If you need Assisted Living and there is a wait time, what happens? Is care provided while you remain in Independent Living? What are your costs? What about Long Term? If you have a wait, is care provided while you remain in the Assisted Living area? Typically, assisted living requires that you are mobile enough to get to and from the dining area, for example. If you can no longer do this, will meals be provided to you in your apartment? The whole Idea of CCRCs is that your costs will be contained as you move to higher levels of care. You have to pay up at the front end for this benefit. It is important to find out what's going on as you pass through the python to el puerto. Do your homework.
One of the advantages of moving to a CCRC in an independent apartment is that you get bumped to the top of the assisted living or nursing home list at the facility if you need that level of care. This doesn't mean that you will be able to move immediately, but that you will be given priority.

Being in assisted living facility or a nursing home is nothing that any reasonable person would be happy about. Nor are those levels of care are "attractive." But sometimes they are a necessity. So the point is to find the best facility that meets your medical and financial needs.

GuyInFL
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by GuyInFL » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:37 pm

My parents (78) have been in one the last twelve years and have been happy with their choice. They are continuously upgrading and recently added wifi throughout the campus.

For a list in your area, check out
http://www.carf.org/advancedProviderSearch.aspx

You need to select ‘Continuing Care Retirement Community’ under Program.

CULater
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by CULater » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:25 am

Long term care insurance is going the way of the do-do bird, due to oversubscription and much higher payouts than the insurance companies estimated. Premiums are skyrocketing and companies are not writing new policies or the policy terms are much less attractive. The early-comers were getting a pretty good deal on LTCI, before the herd stared to pile in.

Many people view CCRCs as a substitute for LTCI. Like insurance, you pay a pile of money up front based on the promise that you'll be taken care of affordably down the road. The early-comers were getting a pretty good deal because the promises could be kept. But as the herd piles in and the corporations who run CCRCs start checking the books and noticing just how much it is costing to take care of all those elderly people who are sick, have dementia/alzheimer's, and are living way too long what do you think is going to happen? It will be a problem whether you are in a CCRC or not, but CCRCs are certainly not the answer to the problem. Homework must be done.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by surveyor » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:54 am

My grandparents moved to the John Knox Village facility in Orange City (northeast of Orlando) about 15 years ago. My grandma is still in an apartment but has spent occasional time in their rehabilitation area. My grandfather transitioned into assisted living for a few months then the nursing facility before passing. I can't speak to the cost but I do know it has been a good experience. Tons of activities both on campus and off and there always seems to be people around. My other grandparents stayed local and their transition out was not as enjoyable when it should have been and not as comfortable when it mattered. If I was in my late 70's now I would certainly consider it.

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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by drawpoker » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:02 pm

Look at this from the investment aspect of it. At least if you are asking - Are they a good deal?

Most of these places say if one spouse is at least 62 years old they are eligible for the buy-in.

So, to max out your initial investment (the entry fee) it would be best to go in as soon as eligible (better yet, at the same time lock in a real deal at pre-construction prices at a new one of these going up) then live to a ripe old age. Say well into your eighties. Or nineties, even better. :D

Look very, very, carefully into the fine print of these contracts. Unless you yourself are a lawyer skilled in contract law -- best money you will ever spend is $300-$500 or so to have an experienced attorney look over the contract.

He/she will be able to point out the pitfalls of so-called "90% refundable" entrance fees and a few other unpleasant surprises that may await.

(you may p.m. me if you really want some gory details....

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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal?

Post by mouses » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:30 am

celia wrote:
Dan999 wrote:The biggest consideration for us is that if something happens to me, my wife will be alone in the house and have to manage all the upkeep and will experience the loneliness of being a widow. Then she would have to move and do it all herself.
Carl53 wrote:In the end my inlaws declined to move there (the CCRC) hoping to pass sooner than later in their rural isolated location . . . A year and half later, they are still living in their home of 60 plus years. Mom may try to go to town once a week when Dad is sleeping which he does excessively. We and another daughter & husband visit often (and to shuttle them to doctors 20 miles away) but it often is quite depressing as they go on about their health issues and complaining about how various relatives are living their lives.

Their friends at the CCRC enjoyed one anothers company at meals and during activities. While the inlaws seem to delight with interaction with friends or others they happen to see when out, they made their choice to live at the old homestead. When major things break, like the recent septic tank collapse or water heater failure they are just besides themselves. The house really needs a roof, but they don't want to spend the money.
I like these two stories as well, but can't wait to live by myself in my house. I know how to call repairmen and have the money for it. By then, I would not have to take care of the various family members living with me, and those not living with me will have passed. This will give me more time to do the things I like, without having to consider the needs of others.

The only concern would be my health. If I couldn't take care of myself, the kids would do what they have to do so that I stay safe and cared for. I will likely be able to afford it and have Long Term Care insurance that would pay part of the cost. But even if I have to pay the entire cost, I should be ok.

Just take my computer with me (while I drag and scream)! :o
+1 My experience has been that after you live in a place for awhile, you know the good repair people and know who are the crooks. It is not rocket science to have lawn people and snow plow people; mine bill once a month. I assume adding on a cleaning lady is not that difficult. In my area there are two businesses that have dependable people who will run errands, drive you places, are prompt, etc.

I have visited a relative in a CCRC community. I would go crazy there; they have activities that treat the residents like idiots. I read quite some time ago about CCRCs being set up in university towns. That I can see if I wanted to move a significant distance, which I don't.

drawpoker
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by drawpoker » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:42 pm

CULater wrote: Many people view CCRCs as a substitute for LTCI. Like insurance, you pay a pile of money up front based on the promise that you'll be taken care of affordably down the road. The early-comers were getting a pretty good deal because the promises could be kept. But as the herd piles in and the corporations who run CCRCs start checking the books and noticing just how much it is costing to take care of all those elderly people who are sick, have dementia/alzheimer's, and are living way too long what do you think is going to happen? It will be a problem whether you are in a CCRC or not, but CCRCs are certainly not the answer to the problem. Homework must be done.
Good points, and I agree the financial strength of the CCRC must be scrutinized.

Which brings up another point - state law is a big, big consideration here. Some states are very lax in regulating CCRC's, others, (like Maryland) are very tough and demanding.

As CULater observes, in the early days of CCRC's coming on the landscape (like in the '70's) there were some who quickly got in fiscal trouble, eventually went belly-up, leaving the residents in the lurch, and literally tossed out on the street :shock:

Because some of these bankrupt failures were happening in Maryland the state got very aggressive and implemented new laws regulating these places, setting up strict requirements for capital reserves, detailed both short-term and long-term budgets, occupancy projections, and other stipulations before they would issue a permit to build.

But each state is going to have its own laws and regs pertaining to CCRC's. Nothing posted on an internet message board should be taken at face value without checking state law first.

Before getting too emotionally involved, just having your heart set on getting in at one - have a little casual chat with an experienced attorney specializing in elder law issues and just ask, straight out, how do we stand here (in FL, NY, PA, whatever) when it comes to these CCRC places? Do we have some of the tougher state laws in place to protect the consumer with this kind of money at stake? Or do our's fall under the more weaker ones?

No kidding, the information you receive just may make you consider switching your state of residence. :wink:

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artthomp
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by artthomp » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:06 pm

My father passed away in 2006
He moved into a CCRC 15 years ago here in the Midwest.
At first he lived in an independent living apartment at a fairly reasonable rate. He enjoyed it.
Later he moved into assisted living. He enjoyed it.
Finally the staff at that facility decided he needed to move into the nursing care unit.
For several reasons the nursing care unit proved to be intolerable. He was miserable.
My brother found another facility which appeared to be better.
They determined that he could function OK in the assisted living unit. He was happy again.
I guess the moral of my story is you can't necessarily go by the initial impression as to what each stage of living accommodations will be like
Art

mur44
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by mur44 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:25 pm

One note of caution about CCRC's - you need to declare
your assets at the beginning and you may not give away
your assets (to your heirs) while residing at the CCRC.
I think this is a significant clause to watch out.

In NYC area, one needs to make a lump sum amount to
check into CCRC and make monthly payments for various things.

CCRC works well for singles.

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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by drawpoker » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:51 pm

artthomp wrote:....For several reasons the nursing care unit proved to be intolerable. He was miserable.
My brother found another facility which appeared to be better......
They determined that he could function OK in the assisted living unit. He was happy again......
Oh, boy, can I relate to this one, artthomp :!:

When it became obvious the care my father was getting at his CCRC assisted living section was not only inadequate, sub-standard, and downright dangerous, and he was absolutely miserable - and - I could get nowhere with the staff (both nursing and administrative management) I did exactly the same thing - started making plans to move him to a much better facility.

Well, of course I immediately caught hell from my 2 siblings, moaning and groaning, bitching at me (I held POA). Are you crazy, look at all that $$$ he paid on the entry fee, for guaranteed lifetime care, he has to stay there, blah blah.

I said - Look, why don't you get on a #&!@!*% airplane, come up here, and see for yourself? Don't dare criticize my judgment when you have absolutely no idea what the conditions are like at this !&$#@#!(&# place!

delamer
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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by delamer » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:53 pm

mur44 wrote:One note of caution about CCRC's - you need to declare
your assets at the beginning and you may not give away
your assets (to your heirs) while residing at the CCRC.
I think this is a significant clause to watch out.

In NYC area, one needs to make a lump sum amount to
check into CCRC and make monthly payments for various things.

CCRC works well for singles.

I suppose it is possible that there was such a clause in my parents' contract, but if so it was not enforced. Now it could be that if my mother had claimed she'd run out of money and that it was due to gifting that there could have been an issue then.

There was some requirement about health insurance that she ran afoul of (something to do with the type of Medicare supplement that she had), but it was a non-issue because she died shortly after I became aware of the lack of compliance and the CCRC was fully reimbursed for its fees.

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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:59 pm

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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by drawpoker » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:24 pm

delamer wrote:.... suppose it is possible that there was such a clause .....Now it could be that if my mother had claimed she'd run out of money and that it was due to gifting that there could have been an issue then....
Yes. A big issue.

Most of these non-profit CCRC places that have affiliation with one religious denomination or another maintain a benevolent fund (or somesuch similar name) Just for the purpose of rescuing anyone who does, indeed, "run out of money" and can't pay their monthly fee.
They don't want the negative publicity that would obviously result if they threw some resident out on the street.
So, they offer this life-preserver - drawing on the Benevolent Fund - But - Only under the condition that the resident is eligible for this due to circumstances beyond their control. Like, um, another stock market crash.

Not because they gave away their money/assets

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Re: Are CCRCs a good deal? [Continuing Care Retirement Community]

Post by Pajamas » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:39 pm

Some relatives had a very good experience with a very similar community in another area of Florida. There were one story villa apartments for people who were completely independent with only call bells for real emergencies and the opportunity to take meals in the main building and enjoy all the many activities provided, plus a tower with various stages of care from minor occasional assistance and supervision of medication to a level of care almost like what would be provided in a hospital as far as nursing and other supportive services such as physical therapy, but without continuous medical supervision.

They were in their mid-70s when they moved in. One had a serious and progressive fatal condition and needed constant supervision by the spouse and light assistance with bathing from the start, while the other was independent. It allowed them to stay together in the same apartment and then the same building until one died, and afterwards provided a familiar place for the other to live until death with all necessary assistance and comfort. However, when one died, the other had to move into a smaller studio apartment very quickly, by the end of the next month, if I remember correctly.

The facility was one of the more expensive ones and had a huge up-front, non-refundable entrance fee plus high ongoing monthly charges, but was non-profit and church-related and I think that made a real difference vs. a for-profit or less expensive equivalent. There were never any real complaints about the staff, facilities, or food. They were able to use their own furniture and paint and put up window treatments when they moved in. I enjoyed the food when I visited and you could tell that the staff genuinely enjoyed working there and interacting with the residents. It was very much like a cruise ship superficially.

I would be more hesitant to recommend moving to a similar facility for a perfectly independent couple without any immediate needs. Living in the shadow of the tower might not appeal to some, but basically, some people like 55+ communities, and some do not.

What I would recommend is to visit and then take advantage of the "staycation" that they offer to actually experience living there to help you make up your mind. It would be interesting if your wife decided she did NOT like it and you decided that you do like it, after staying there.

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