Best take it everywhere camera

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 4504
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Best take it everywhere camera

Post by TheTimeLord » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:41 pm

Continuing my photography theme I am looking for a take it everywhere camera to supplement a DSLR. It seems like the Olympus TG-4 is the consensus pick on the web. Looking for confirmation or other options.
Run, You Clever Boy!

bluebolt
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:01 am

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by bluebolt » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:57 pm

What are you going to use it for? I find my iPhone to be a pretty good take-it-everywhere camera. I also have a mid-range DSLR, but can't take it everywhere. Used to have a Nikon high-end point & shoot, but ended up leaving it at home most of the time as I ended up using my phone for snapshots and my DSLR for important shots.

Wirecutter picks the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX10 (http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-p ... ot-camera/).

daveydoo
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:53 am

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by daveydoo » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:32 pm

bluebolt wrote: I find my iPhone to be a pretty good take-it-everywhere camera.


This. I love my full-frame DSLR and take it when I know I'll be taking pictures. But what the phones do -- and what I wish the DSLRs would do -- is algorithmically expand the dynamic range. Very hard to get big dynamic range with digital -- having cloud detail in bright sky and in the foreground shadows -- even when shooting in RAW. All the expert tutorials tecommend shooting and combining multiple exposures. That's great but a lot of work, especially if part of the field isn't static. Film was way better and I didn't realize this until my D and I were shooting side-by-side -- she with film and me with digital. Out of the can, her landscapes blew mine away in terms of dynamic range -- and that's such a huge thing for landscapes.

So I use my newer iPhone all the time -- the images are nowhere near as editable, but they're remarkably good for capturing a moment. And it's always with me. Pro-tip #1: clean the phone "lens" (sapphire window?) with your shirt sleeve before shooting. Pro-tip #2: do not do this with your DSLR.

arsenalfan
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:26 am

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by arsenalfan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:37 pm

Depends on what you shoot and how facile you are with the modes, but after some expensive trials I'm back in the smartphone camp (iPhone Plus upgrade every 2 years). Basically anything big is too bulky for everyday use (I do keep a nikon D700 FX body and some fast primes along with a 70-200 for sports and portraiture), and I tried an expensive compact ($1k Sony RX-100V) but found it wasn't much better than the iPhone and didn't justify its status as 1-trick pony vs the iPhone 6s Plus. Note, I didn't take advantage of the slo-mo or movie features, just wanted a quick point & shoot. It was the same as the iPhone - great in good conditions, not so hot indoors. Nothing beats off-camera bounce flash, it turns out.

So I sold the expensive compact on eBay, and am resigned to upgrading to a new iPhone plus model every 2 years. I understand the Samsung smartphone cameras also are great.

User avatar
rob
Posts: 2828
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by rob » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:44 pm

iPhone works but seems your looking for something better.... Have a look at the Fuji X100 (whatever version they are on now).
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

User avatar
Toons
Posts: 11917
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:20 am
Location: Hills of Tennessee

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Toons » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:46 pm

I have several nice Sony cameras...but I find myself using the camera that comes with the...
Samsung S7- :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

User avatar
TimeRunner
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by TimeRunner » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:35 pm

Google Pixel XL. Great camera, with the added bonus of being a very nice Android phone kept up-to-date by Google, and using Project Fi for excellent voice/data experience. Switched to it from an iPhone and haven't looked back.
One cannot enlighten the unconscious. | Endurance athletes are the Bogleheads of sports. | "I like people - I just don't want to be around 'em." - Russell Gordy

User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii😀 Northern AZ.😳

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Sandtrap » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:08 pm

This is what I use. My wife has a previous generation.
Normally we each carry Two 5dMkIII/IV and 1Ds full frame bodies and "L" zooms on each as our "take anywhere no compromise image quality setup".
DW travels with a 5dMKiV with 2 Canon "L" lenses and also an older powershot G15 type.
I use this.
Canon PowerShot G5 X Digital Camera with 4.2x Optical Zoom, Built-in Wi-Fi and 3 inch LCD
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0167Q0VP4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I went on a long hunt last year and tried and returned a wide swath from Sony RX series (IMHO overpriced) to Canon to Nikon. But as I'm used to the image control of the larger DSLR, usually manual, I wanted the same basic manual and AP/SP modes with nothing fancy on a compact, also the larger APS-C sensor. I like the viewfinder on the G5X as it helps me compose better than the standard back screen lcd. Also the ability to shoot raw in Adobe RGB.

I have an Iphone7+ which takes great pics but for a take everywhere "camera", I chose the Canon G5X. Perhaps more of a "photographer's" "compact" whatever that means. Nikon also makes a great one.

The Olympus compacts are great. I had a Styllus that was waterproof and ahead of its time. Then an Olympus Xz1 and got a waterproof housing for it. It was great for many years.

This is my personal experience and hopefully provides actionable information to others. :D
Last edited by Sandtrap on Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shared experiences to benefit all -- not an exspurt -- per forum guidelines :) Golf score allocation 50/50 swings vs putts.

iamlucky13
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by iamlucky13 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:39 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:It seems like the Olympus TG-4 is the consensus pick on the web.


There is no consensus pick. There's a wide array of models from waterproof models like the Olympus to high ratio superzooms because so many users have different priorities. If it's one of the leading models in the waterproof sub-genre, I'm not aware because that market is outside my own priorities.

Personally, I'd jump on a large sensor compact like the Sony RX100 V if I weren't so busy lately I don't have time to use it, but it's expensive, at the large end of pocketable, and has a limited zoom range many others won't like.

You should try to develop a fairly good idea what range of situations you want to be able to shoot in to narrow down your choices - if you have to prioritize low cost, zoom range, small size, ruggedness, and low light performance, for example, how would you rank them?

daveydoo wrote: But what the phones do -- and what I wish the DSLRs would do -- is algorithmically expand the dynamic range. Very hard to get big dynamic range with digital -- having cloud detail in bright sky and in the foreground shadows -- even when shooting in RAW. All the expert tutorials tecommend shooting and combining multiple exposures. That's great but a lot of work, especially if part of the field isn't static. Film was way better and I didn't realize this until my D and I were shooting side-by-side -- she with film and me with digital. Out of the can, her landscapes blew mine away in terms of dynamic range -- and that's such a huge thing for landscapes.


Nikon calls it D-lighting and I think Canon calls it Highlight Tone Priority. They don't push it as far as the phone makes do, and I prefer to edit the RAW files manually anyways, but the feature has been there for years.

Some of the phones also now have automatic multi-exposure HDR, enabled in part by the large amount of processing power they have available to quickly align and merge multiple photos. It's pretty slick, but since they start with less dynamic range, I don't know if they get much more total range than the latest SLR's.

Interestingly, a while back I was comparing sales numbers for Nikon and Apple in their camera and phone segments respectively, and realized Apple likely has dozens, if not over 100 times as much R&D money going into camera development and image processing as Nikon does. Apple has 30 times as many unit sales as Nikon with an average sales price not much lower, and as much as 15 times the net profit margin. The future is likely going to include a lot of trickle-up technology to the top end of the camera market from the mobile market, instead of trickle down.

My wife has the current Samsung flagship phone. Basic image quality is pretty comparable to the Canon S110 I have for pocket carry, or perhaps even a hair better. However shooting with the phone is major hassle in comparison if you're doing anything other than a wide angle, full auto snapshot. I can't deny the convenience if you were going to be carrying an oversized phone around anyways, but given the choice, it is no contest. I'll use the purpose-built camera.

Sandi_k
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 11:55 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Sandi_k » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:28 am

Canon G-15 or 16, whatever model # they're on now...

daveydoo
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:53 am

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by daveydoo » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:29 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
Some of the phones also now have automatic multi-exposure HDR, enabled in part by the large amount of processing power they have available to quickly align and merge multiple photos.


Yes, I have all the HDR apps. They don't add too much, but the base performance of the newer iPhones for dynamic range is much better than even high-end DSLRs, imo. And film is even better. I guess I hadn't factored in the R&D or unit-sales differentials -- I assumed that Nikon and Canon would be way ahead of Apple.

I hate small sensors and that's where phones are terrible -- no way to get shallow depth-of-field for portraiture no matter how fast the lens is -- unless it's artificially applied within some app. So whereas I love my phone for landscapes, it's terrible for portraits.

red5
Posts: 757
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:42 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by red5 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:06 am

I use a Sony DSC RX100 III (they have newer models now) that I bought used on Amazon and so far am happy with its results. It fits in my pocket and takes great photos. I am used to a Canon 50D (SLR).

hightower
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:28 am

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by hightower » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:55 am

I use a fujifilm xt2 for my "real" camera (travel, landscapes, and portrait work), but for everything else my iPhone 7 is great. I see no reason to own a second camera outside of that. Most new higher end phone cameras these days are excellent. And the best camera is always the one you have with you. That's another huge advantage to phone cameras. They're always in your pocket

User avatar
climber2020
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by climber2020 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:33 am

TheTimeLord wrote:Continuing my photography theme I am looking for a take it everywhere camera to supplement a DSLR. It seems like the Olympus TG-4 is the consensus pick on the web. Looking for confirmation or other options.


The problem with these types of cameras is that due to the waterproof casing in front of the lens, image quality is not that great.

I got an original RX100 when it first came out, and it's a solid camera that's still going strong after nearly 5 years of regular use. Prints are decent up to 16x20 in ideal lighting conditions, but the lens compromises are pretty apparent (as is the case with most zoom lenses this size).

Give the Ricoh GR a look. It costs more than the Olympus, a lot less than the newest RX100 models, can fit in a front jeans pocket, weighs close to nothing, has an APS-C sized sensor, and has one of the sharpest 28 mm fixed lenses in existence. It also has useful crop modes so you can shoot at a 50 mm lens equivalent and still get a great 6 mp file out of it. It also has the best ergonomics I've ever seen in a compact.

User avatar
midareff
Posts: 4959
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:43 am
Location: Biscayne Bay, South Florida

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by midareff » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:58 am

Having shot a wide variety of cameras from Canon's 5DMKII and a bag of L glass to various compacts over the years I've gotten away from the heavy DSLR style for weight concerns. A 5D whatever and a bag of L glass is too much for me to haul around all day. Most compacts I've tried including the Canon G series and Sony RX100 both M 3/4 are just not a good enough solution for me. My go to is a Fuji XT-1 at this point with the 14, 18-55 and 55-200 lenses while still having the Sony RX100 m4 and a Panasonic DMC ZS100, which has a 24-250 mm range and is a highly rated travel zoom compact. Having used all of those cameras through over the years I find the Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge with Samsung's 2 lens add on kit providing 16 mm, 26 mm and 52 mm ranges a much more than satisfactory travel set. Our last three trips were shot with the Galaxy and the Panasonic when I needed a long telephoto. The interesting thing is how well the Galaxy's jpegs post process in Lightroom and how well it does indoors. Examples are at

http://www.martindareff.com/Internation ... /i-mPJn3Tw

http://www.martindareff.com/Internation ... ama-Canal/ and

http://www.martindareff.com/Travel-in-t ... ia-Rivers/

The Galaxy and lens set, a miniature tripod and a blue tooth remote shutter easily fit in your pocket.
Last edited by midareff on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 2308
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by lthenderson » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:08 am

I have three different point and shoot pocket cameras gathering dust right now. I just use my iphone now as my always with me camera because it is always with me. With the point and shoot cameras, I still have to make the conscientious decision to pack it along and then I have two pockets full (one for the iphone and one for the camera) plus room for change and car keys. I don't like to keep those things in the same pocket as the iphone so they end up in the other pocket with the camera and it is more than I want to carry. Also, if I am making a conscientious decision to take a camera, I'll grab the DSLR which takes much better pictures anyway. I fully expect point and shoot cameras to go the way of 8 track tapes and phone booths.

dandinsac
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:34 am

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by dandinsac » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:44 am

I have had the TG3 model for 4 years, which is very similar to the TG4. I use it when hiking and kayaking as it is waterproof and shockproof. Having an optical zoom, variable aperture, bigger flash, replaceable battery, removable memory, etc. make it more useful than my iphone for travel and general photography. I usually carry it in my back pocket or in a small velcro pouch. When kayaking, I use a float to keep it from sinking. It's a nice camera and if you're looking to take a lot of pictures, especially in a wet or rough environment, it is a great choice. There are better choices for video or low light photography if you can protect the camera.

User avatar
Ged
Posts: 3271
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 1:48 pm
Location: Roke

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Ged » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:32 am

daveydoo wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
Some of the phones also now have automatic multi-exposure HDR, enabled in part by the large amount of processing power they have available to quickly align and merge multiple photos.


Yes, I have all the HDR apps. They don't add too much, but the base performance of the newer iPhones for dynamic range is much better than even high-end DSLRs, imo. And film is even better. I guess I hadn't factored in the R&D or unit-sales differentials -- I assumed that Nikon and Canon would be way ahead of Apple.


Those are some pretty strong claims about DR base performance. Apple is buying its sensors from Sony just like Nikon is, so it's very unlikely the base performance a tiny Sony sensor in an iPhone is as good as the base performance of a Nikon camera with a Sony full-frame sensor.

arsenalfan
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:26 am

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by arsenalfan » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:13 am

lthenderson wrote:I fully expect point and shoot cameras to go the way of 8 track tapes and phone booths.


Totally agree.

I had to buy the Sony RX100V on Amazon - the Best Buy, MicroCenter, and other stores around me didn't have high-end compact cameras.

And the closest Ritz Camera is just a photo printing shop -in major HCOL east coast city, had to drive 40 miles to closest large camera store.

If I could've just kicked the tires on a couple of the units, to compare and contrast, likely would have realized their low-light performance wasn't much better than an iPhone+, and also that the good ones were too big for my pocket/not portable enough.

User avatar
PaddyMac
Posts: 1408
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:29 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by PaddyMac » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:16 am

I've had an RX100 MkII since they first came out. Two pro photographers recommended it to me as their pocket camera. It takes great photos (I shoot Camera RAW always, turning off the duplicate JPG).

My favorite feature is the one-click button to record a Movie (HD) - most cameras you have to fiddle with a dial to switch to Movie mode. I use the video feature all the time for recording workshops as it's very discrete and doesn't look like someone is "shooting video". (I like having a way to revisit the workshop later and write better notes.) During video recording, you can press the button to take a quick JPG too (not Camera RAW though).

I have an iPhone 5 and once I took a few pics indoors thinking it was easier as my phone was in my hand, but didn't like what I saw onscreen and took out the Sony camera. So glad I did, as the quality was so much higher. The iPhone is good enough during the day in good light, but I don't like it indoors (restaurants, indoor meetings, etc).

daveydoo
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:53 am

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by daveydoo » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:47 am

Ged wrote:
Those are some pretty strong claims about DR base performance. Apple is buying its sensors from Sony just like Nikon is, so it's very unlikely the base performance a tiny Sony sensor in an iPhone is as good as the base performance of a Nikon camera with a Sony full-frame sensor.


No, it's entirely a software issue. That's why it's maddening that a phone surpasses a full-frame DSLR in some of these contexts/respects.

User avatar
Ged
Posts: 3271
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 1:48 pm
Location: Roke

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Ged » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:13 pm

daveydoo wrote:
Ged wrote:
Those are some pretty strong claims about DR base performance. Apple is buying its sensors from Sony just like Nikon is, so it's very unlikely the base performance a tiny Sony sensor in an iPhone is as good as the base performance of a Nikon camera with a Sony full-frame sensor.


No, it's entirely a software issue. That's why it's maddening that a phone surpasses a full-frame DSLR in some of these contexts/respects.


OK, I see what you are driving at.

From my point of view taking pre-processed JPEGs out of a high end DSLR doesn't make sense while it does for a cell phone.

The reason is that JPEGs only have an 8-bit representation of the photo data. This bit depth fits cell phone sensor's DR quite well so you aren't losing much if anything if you take a JPEG right out of the camera. This gives Apple the chance to provide a nice software algorithm for enhancing the JPEG.

For current DSLRs this is not true. Modern DSLRs need at least 12 bits, and the best ones even more to represent the data captured by the large photo sites of a full-frame sensor. Typically users of a high end DLSR will manipulate the raw picture files in external software for their best images. Taking a JPEG directly out of a high end DSLR is throwing away a huge part of what the large sensor provides.

iamlucky13
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by iamlucky13 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:37 pm

lthenderson wrote:I fully expect point and shoot cameras to go the way of 8 track tapes and phone booths.


Except those are basically completely technologically obsolete - they retain no meaningful advantages over other products.

Point and shoots have several distinct advantages over phone cameras. Trying to squeeze a camera into less than 1/2" of space will always be a serious disadvantage. Those advantages aren't important to most people, but there remains a niche who want the option.

daveydoo wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
Some of the phones also now have automatic multi-exposure HDR, enabled in part by the large amount of processing power they have available to quickly align and merge multiple photos.


Yes, I have all the HDR apps. They don't add too much, but the base performance of the newer iPhones for dynamic range is much better than even high-end DSLRs, imo. And film is even better. I guess I hadn't factored in the R&D or unit-sales differentials -- I assumed that Nikon and Canon would be way ahead of Apple.


Nikon and Canon are way ahead of Apple in sensor performance, mainly due to size, and possibly still a bit ahead in analog to digital conversion and readout. Apple, Samsung, etc, are way ahead in automatic processing, and that lets them do a lot to mitigate the limited dynamic range, including, I think making different adjustments to different parts of the image. Meanwhile, Nikon and Canon both compress dynamic range with their in-camera JPEG conversion because such high range images generally look flat.

I don't think based on your follow up post you really mean base performance, but HDR. Just in case though, measurements confirm the latest iPhone is not even in the same ballpark at base performance as the latest SLR's, although operating at lower ISO's they do make up some ground:
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/P ... on%20D7200

At equivalent ISO's, even a +2/-2 EV HDR image doesn't get to the same range.

User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 2308
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by lthenderson » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:02 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
lthenderson wrote:I fully expect point and shoot cameras to go the way of 8 track tapes and phone booths.


Except those are basically completely technologically obsolete - they retain no meaningful advantages over other products.

Point and shoots have several distinct advantages over phone cameras. Trying to squeeze a camera into less than 1/2" of space will always be a serious disadvantage. Those advantages aren't important to most people, but there remains a niche who want the option.


Yes a phone camera currently has a slight disadvantage over a point and shoot camera due to size restrictions, but in reality, the image quality of a picture taken with a phone is "good enough" for the vast majority of people. For those that require better quality, a SLR camera is usually the better option. One can see evidence by looking at the point and shoot market today versus a decade ago. Phone manufacturers are currently shooting to remove even that slight disadvantage by adding dual cameras (and image processors) and also clip on lenses for the outside of the phone.

iamlucky13
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by iamlucky13 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:37 pm

lthenderson wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
lthenderson wrote:I fully expect point and shoot cameras to go the way of 8 track tapes and phone booths.


Except those are basically completely technologically obsolete - they retain no meaningful advantages over other products.

Point and shoots have several distinct advantages over phone cameras. Trying to squeeze a camera into less than 1/2" of space will always be a serious disadvantage. Those advantages aren't important to most people, but there remains a niche who want the option.


Yes a phone camera currently has a slight disadvantage over a point and shoot camera due to size restrictions, but in reality, the image quality of a picture taken with a phone is "good enough" for the vast majority of people. For those that require better quality, a SLR camera is usually the better option. One can see evidence by looking at the point and shoot market today versus a decade ago. Phone manufacturers are currently shooting to remove even that slight disadvantage by adding dual cameras (and image processors) and also clip on lenses for the outside of the phone.


Just to get an important point out of the way, I don't debate the argument that phones are good enough for most people at all. I'm talking about point and shoots surviving as a niche market.

A phone camera will always have a disadvantage due to size unless people start embracing larger phones. At the same time, an SLR is only a better option to the degree it is practical. Clip on lenses emphasize, rather then downplay that point, because they show the willingness to bring along extra, more bulky accessories to mitigate those disadvantages.

In my own case, I have an SLR and a decent point and shoot, and my wife has one of the best phones on the market, which, women's fashion haven ruined the practicality of her jeans, she inevitably makes me carry. Yet even when I go somewhere with my wife, if I expect to want to take photos and the SLR is too large to bring along, I grab my point and shoot, because it is so much easier to use as a camera, irrespective of differences in image quality.

wrongfunds
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by wrongfunds » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:13 am

Frankly, I am really surprised that camera manufacturers have NOT made a good and moderately priced P&S to beat iPhone 7+. Any P&S which is as good or better than the phone, costs as much or more than the phone! With 7 being rain resistant (they even show commercial of 7 operating in the rain!) there is very little incentive for purchasing yet another P&S.

Show me a P&S under $300 and it will be easily beat by iPhone.

Nekrotok
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Nekrotok » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:30 am

I think you guys scared off the OP..

Rupert
Posts: 2526
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:01 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Rupert » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:41 am

Sandi_k wrote:Canon G-15 or 16, whatever model # they're on now...


+1. Awesome line of cameras. I'm still using my G10. Bit pricey for a P&S though. $500 at Canon.

jjface
Posts: 2457
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by jjface » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:20 am

Depends on how much you want to spend. For a take everywhere camera you want to look at something with a 1" sensor or better or else you might as well just use your phone.

The cheapest are the original sony rx100 and the canon g9x - both around $400. Both are pocketable.

All the rest are $600+ with plenty to choose from. Panasonic zs100 if you want a big zoom in a small body, lx10 that someone mentioned, g7x, g5x etc

You can even go a step up and consider a miroless camera with interchangeable lenses at that price and go with a 'prime' lens. eg panasonic gx850 and a decent lens.

I have a canon m10 with the 22mm f2 prime lens. Cost me less than $400 new. Has a aps-c sized sensor ie one as large as some dslrs. Autofocus is a little slow but you learn to deal with it and become a better photographer for it. Not pocketable but close enough. My smartphone can not compete.

Riverstwo
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:42 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Riverstwo » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:47 am

I am on my 2nd TG-4, I lost my first one in the Bahamas and it was found a month later. In the meantime, I bought a new one. The woman that found my TG-4 found it under the ocean in 2 feet of water. Lo and behold, it still worked and had a battery charge. It is a great camera.

Riverstwo
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:42 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Riverstwo » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:47 am

I am on my 2nd TG-4, I lost my first one in the Bahamas and it was found a month later. In the meantime, I bought a new one. The woman that found my TG-4 found it under the ocean in 2 feet of water. Lo and behold, it still worked and had a battery charge. It is a great camera.

iamlucky13
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by iamlucky13 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:20 pm

Nekrotok wrote:I think you guys scared off the OP..


We did kind of go far afield, huh?

It would still help to know more about what the OP is looking for in terms of price, size, zoom range, etc.

I'm guessing since he mentioned that specific Olympus model he's interested in a waterproof model.

User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii😀 Northern AZ.😳

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:44 pm

It has been said that the "best take it everywhere camera" is the one you have on you all the time because then one is aways ready to capture a moment. With that criteria, an Iphone7+ or equiv. is fine indeed and far surpasses compact cameras several years ago. But it is not waterproof and limited in other ways.
Actionably per forum guidelines: Thus, the Olympus has a fine track record. I have taken pics of sea turtles while snorkeling at Turtle Bay resort in Hawaii and much more. It lasted for many years as a rough and ready camera.
Shared experiences to benefit all -- not an exspurt -- per forum guidelines :) Golf score allocation 50/50 swings vs putts.

User avatar
TheTimeLord
Posts: 4504
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by TheTimeLord » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:02 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Nekrotok wrote:I think you guys scared off the OP..


We did kind of go far afield, huh?

It would still help to know more about what the OP is looking for in terms of price, size, zoom range, etc.

I'm guessing since he mentioned that specific Olympus model he's interested in a waterproof model.


Not scared off just no interest in using a phone to try to take photographs as opposed to pictures. Threw the TG-4 out because from my research it was the consensus take everywhere pick. Shock proof is a big deal. And the thing is what half the price of a top end phone. Just looking for a camera I can throw in my carryon whether I am going to San Francisco, NYC, Katmandu, up the Amazon or to Everest base camp (hopefully someday). Want to be able to take the images and blow them up to 20x30 if I wish. I want these photographs on my walls so I can live in my travels, not in some albums stored on a shelf that I never look at. I hope that helps describe where my passion is on this topic.
Run, You Clever Boy!

User avatar
climber2020
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by climber2020 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:26 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:Not scared off just no interest in using a phone to try to take photographs as opposed to pictures.


If what you're interested in is making good photographs as opposed to collecting cameras, most any modern equipment will do. No one really makes a bad camera in 2017.

And don't discount the level of artistry that can be accomplished with a phone: http://www.ippawards.com/2016-photographers-of-the-year/

User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii😀 Northern AZ.😳

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:32 pm

In that case the largest sensor will make for better enlargements and wall mounts. At a minimum, an APS-C sensor from Canon. Look up the sensor sizes on various compact travel cameras. It is not the pixel count that matters for enlargements but the sensor size. We share the same use. DW and I have our home setup like an art gallery with our own enlarged works here and there. Some up to 3' x 5' though they were taken with medium and large format cameras.
http://photoseek.com/2013/compare-digital-camera-sensor-sizes-full-frame-35mm-aps-c-micro-four-thirds-1-inch-type/
Optimally, the 35mm full frame sensor is ideally a minimum and can enlarge, if taken raw and processed correctly, up to even 3' x 5' depending on the shot and lab.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/full-frame-cameras
A fellow senior retiree avid photographer I know uses the leica with amazing results on his trips abroad. Similar needs to yourself. Also got started and setup with a "digital darkroom" years back.
The sony rx1-r is deadly. Though pricey, the leica lens and image quality is superb.The Rx1 is also outstanding.
Most of these cameras are very very tough. The Leica's, etc, have magnesium frame, etc (something like that) and are not "plasticy".
So depending on one's budget there's a range there between the compact cameras with the APS-C sensors and the "compacts" sort of, with the full frame sensors.
A good leather case or other case will do the trick. Underwater housing's available for most cameras if needed.
Again, it's not the pixel count that matters for enlargements, it's the sensor size.
Hope this helps. FWIW, myself and quite a few photographer (hobby and pro) share your passion.
Shared experiences to benefit all -- not an exspurt -- per forum guidelines :) Golf score allocation 50/50 swings vs putts.

killjoy2012
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by killjoy2012 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:35 pm

My Canon Powershot S series takes much better pictures than my iPhone 6. No comparison.

I carry the iPhone daily everywhere, and s110 only when on trips, concerts or other events. It's easily fits in a pocket or belt holster. It also doesn't constantly complain to me about being out of memory, and needing to delete apps or data, always with the worst timing. I've had many people comment to me in a crowd at concerts just how much better my pics and videos are VS what they're getting from their iPhone/Droid phones.

I've had/used a Canon G series & full DSLR in the past, and while they do shoot even better pictures, they just aren't for me -- too big, heavy, PITA to lug around IMO. Most of my more serious photo taking needs are either adventures or events, both of which are not ideal for lugging more gear than needed. I found myself even leaving the G series home when I had, due to the size... and it's much smaller than a full body DSLR.

There are a couple better cameras than the Canon S series in the same size category. The Sony RX1 is one of them, but at 4-5x the price.

iamlucky13
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by iamlucky13 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:25 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:Not scared off just no interest in using a phone to try to take photographs as opposed to pictures. Threw the TG-4 out because from my research it was the consensus take everywhere pick. Shock proof is a big deal. And the thing is what half the price of a top end phone. Just looking for a camera I can throw in my carryon whether I am going to San Francisco, NYC, Katmandu, up the Amazon or to Everest base camp (hopefully someday). Want to be able to take the images and blow them up to 20x30 if I wish. I want these photographs on my walls so I can live in my travels, not in some albums stored on a shelf that I never look at. I hope that helps describe where my passion is on this topic.


Ok, so reasonable bag size, but it doesn't sound like fitting in your jeans pocket is a must-have criteria?

You haven't indicated a price limit, but the preference seems to be less than the cost of an iphone.

Very high value on ruggedness.

Most cameras these days can have photos taken under good conditions enlarged well. It's the high contrast or low light situations where moving to progressively larger sensors and more refined optical designs adds increasing value. For a balance of quality and portability, I think the 1" sensor size is very appealing, but I don't think there are any dedicated ruggedized models with a 1" sensor. The Nikon AW1 is waterproof, but it's an interchangeable lens mirrorless camera, which is a decent amount larger than the TG-4.

If ruggedness is a top priority, I don't know if there is many worth suggesting aside from the TG-4 and it's competitors from Panasonic and the rest. TheWireCutter seemed to rate the TG-4 as better in a lot of small ways than the rest, which is generally a good endorsement, but not gospel.

That said, my Canon S-series spends a fair amount of time bouncing around in my backpack, the car, or my pocket, and it seems to be holding up respectably, but it's not a ruggedized camera and has not faced any serious drops. The current Canon G-models should be a similar build quality to the older S-series, but not quite as sturdy feeling as the older G-models.

TN_Boy
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by TN_Boy » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:56 pm

Ged wrote:
daveydoo wrote:
Ged wrote:
Those are some pretty strong claims about DR base performance. Apple is buying its sensors from Sony just like Nikon is, so it's very unlikely the base performance a tiny Sony sensor in an iPhone is as good as the base performance of a Nikon camera with a Sony full-frame sensor.


No, it's entirely a software issue. That's why it's maddening that a phone surpasses a full-frame DSLR in some of these contexts/respects.


OK, I see what you are driving at.

From my point of view taking pre-processed JPEGs out of a high end DSLR doesn't make sense while it does for a cell phone.

The reason is that JPEGs only have an 8-bit representation of the photo data. This bit depth fits cell phone sensor's DR quite well so you aren't losing much if anything if you take a JPEG right out of the camera. This gives Apple the chance to provide a nice software algorithm for enhancing the JPEG.

For current DSLRs this is not true. Modern DSLRs need at least 12 bits, and the best ones even more to represent the data captured by the large photo sites of a full-frame sensor. Typically users of a high end DLSR will manipulate the raw picture files in external software for their best images. Taking a JPEG directly out of a high end DSLR is throwing away a huge part of what the large sensor provides.


This is an important point Ged makes.

As I've learned how to post-process photos, the power of using RAW images from a large(r) sensor camera becomes very clear. For example, I'll have a photo with a large dynamic range (shadows and bright areas) and and bring that photo up in something like Lightroom, move the shadows slider and magically detail appears in the dark areas. Shoot that same scene with a camera phone (or a point and shoot with a small sensor) and the JPEG image almost certainly won't have that detail. The dark areas shall remain dark. There are other advantages to RAW processing, this particular one is what I notice the most. The smart phones do have some HDR magic (which can be duplicated using a DSLR via exposure bracketing and post-processing but I still don't think the small sensor camera phones can do as well.

But of course, most people do not want to post-process photos to get the best image. It takes time, moderately complicated software and some practice.

TN_Boy
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by TN_Boy » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:31 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
Nekrotok wrote:I think you guys scared off the OP..


We did kind of go far afield, huh?

It would still help to know more about what the OP is looking for in terms of price, size, zoom range, etc.

I'm guessing since he mentioned that specific Olympus model he's interested in a waterproof model.


Not scared off just no interest in using a phone to try to take photographs as opposed to pictures. Threw the TG-4 out because from my research it was the consensus take everywhere pick. Shock proof is a big deal. And the thing is what half the price of a top end phone. Just looking for a camera I can throw in my carryon whether I am going to San Francisco, NYC, Katmandu, up the Amazon or to Everest base camp (hopefully someday). Want to be able to take the images and blow them up to 20x30 if I wish. I want these photographs on my walls so I can live in my travels, not in some albums stored on a shelf that I never look at. I hope that helps describe where my passion is on this topic.


I have a TG-4, and I think it is a fine little compact camera. Waterproof (take it snorkeling!) and shock-resistant. You can even shoot in RAW mode and post-process if you want, which will improve the image quality.

But I'm not sure you can get sharp 20x30 images out of it, even with pictures taken in good light (maybe 13x19 or somesuch).

I think cameras are one of the best examples you'll find of compromises in action. I also own a "bridge camera" with a 1" sensor (quite a bit bigger than the one in the TG-4) and a 16x zoom. It is, I think, an awesome travel camera. It takes better pictures than the TG-4 (even if I shoot RAW in both and post-process). Much better in low light. It is also very fast to power up and focus - the fast autofocus alone has gotten me pictures that point and shoots might have missed. And while (I checked this) most of my pictures don't use all of that 16x zoom, quite a number use more than the 4x on the TG-4. But my bridge camera is the size of a small DSLR -- it's not a pocket camera. It's much easier to deal with than a DSLR with multiple lenses (hence a great travel camera for me) but in many situations a DSLR would take a better picture (if it had the correct lens attached for the situation ..... ).

If you must have shockproof/waterproof, the TG-4 is a decent choice, but you will get better pictures if you get a camera with a bigger sensor (there are similar sized ones mentioned elsewhere in this thread with 1" sensors). Although I have not directly compared them, I suspect the latest phones can take pictures just as good or better than the TG-4 (occasionally the 4x zoom on the TG-4 will get you shots the phones won't).

Anyway, you cannot get a camera that takes great pictures in most situations and fits in your pocket. And is shockproof.

User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii😀 Northern AZ.😳

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Sandtrap » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:54 am

http://www.imaging-resource.com/waterproof-cameras
waterproof cameras review at "imaging resources"
Shared experiences to benefit all -- not an exspurt -- per forum guidelines :) Golf score allocation 50/50 swings vs putts.

Malinois000
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:08 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Malinois000 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:54 pm

Leica Q - The best take it everywhere camera ever! It is quite expensive, however.

TN_Boy
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by TN_Boy » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:30 pm

Malinois000 wrote:Leica Q - The best take it everywhere camera ever! It is quite expensive, however.


This is a good example of how every camera has compromises. The Leica (which costs thousands) is indeed compact and can take excellent pictures according to the reviews (it has a full-frame sensor and excellent low light capability to go with its very high quality lens).

It also has a fixed 28 mm lens. No zoom at all. Now, it's a really good lens, but that lack of flexibility makes certain shots very hard/impossible. Many purists say "zoom with your feet" but sometimes, you can't. Or you could, if you had an extra hour to tromp around (while your spouse contemplates throwing your camera in the next deep body of water, with you attached). When I travel I may go from a street photography situation to a landscape and everything in between, and I find having no zoom makes life a lot harder.

iamlucky13
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by iamlucky13 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:00 pm

TN_Boy wrote: Many purists say "zoom with your feet" but sometimes, you can't.


Even if you're not physically limited from doing so, "zoom with your feet" means neglecting perspective, which can radically alter the overall composition. It's something you do with prime lenses to a limited degree rather than changing lenses, iff the effect on your composition is acceptable, but you can only take the suggestion so far before it becomes ludicrous.

A really uninspiring pair of photos that offer an extreme demonstration of the same foreground framing, but completely different perspective:

Wide angle (zoomed in by walking up close)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1359-1.jpg

Telephoto (zoomed out by walking back away)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1369-2.jpg

Teague
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:15 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Teague » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:14 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
TN_Boy wrote: Many purists say "zoom with your feet" but sometimes, you can't.


Even if you're not physically limited from doing so, "zoom with your feet" means neglecting perspective, which can radically alter the overall composition. It's something you do with prime lenses to a limited degree rather than changing lenses, iff the effect on your composition is acceptable, but you can only take the suggestion so far before it becomes ludicrous.

A really uninspiring pair of photos that offer an extreme demonstration of the same foreground framing, but completely different perspective:

Wide angle (zoomed in by walking up close)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1359-1.jpg

Telephoto (zoomed out by walking back away)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1369-2.jpg


You beat me to it! Zooming in is akin to cropping; moving the camera changes perspective which zooming does not.
If you're making a movie, you can do both at once. Grab your camcorder and zoom in while dollying back, or vice versa, and see what you get! :happy
Semper Augustus

anoop
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:33 am

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by anoop » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:19 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:A really uninspiring pair of photos that offer an extreme demonstration of the same foreground framing, but completely different perspective:

Wide angle (zoomed in by walking up close)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1359-1.jpg

Telephoto (zoomed out by walking back away)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1369-2.jpg


hmm...make me philosophical. What is reality and which one of those is real?

iamlucky13
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by iamlucky13 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:48 pm

anoop wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:A really uninspiring pair of photos that offer an extreme demonstration of the same foreground framing, but completely different perspective:

Wide angle (zoomed in by walking up close)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1359-1.jpg

Telephoto (zoomed out by walking back away)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1369-2.jpg


hmm...make me philosophical. What is reality and which one of those is real?


In an existential sense, neither of them are real because they only represent a single moment in time that is now past in some unknown place that you have no connection to. If you try to go there, you can't, because even if you can find the location, and the scoreboard and the powerplant still exist, that moment does not.

Yet from a different metaphyscial viewpoint, they're both real because the abstract pattern of electrical signals that allows the scenes to be recreated in the same manner to different people at different times transcends such shallow considerations of reality as I propose above. Furthermore, since you, a presumably real person, have viewed and contemplated the photos, you have developed an experience of those scenes that can no more be dismissed as unreal than your own perception of self - Cogito ergo sum, et quod cognosco est quod veritatem ad mei!

Does that answer the question?
Last edited by iamlucky13 on Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Teague
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:15 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Teague » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:49 pm

anoop wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:A really uninspiring pair of photos that offer an extreme demonstration of the same foreground framing, but completely different perspective:

Wide angle (zoomed in by walking up close)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1359-1.jpg

Telephoto (zoomed out by walking back away)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1369-2.jpg


hmm...make me philosophical. What is reality and which one of those is real?


Well, are the photons recorded by the camera waves or are they particles? Perhaps both and yet neither? Or are they simply what they are, and we create a reality for ourselves by fitting them into our model?
Semper Augustus

anoop
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:33 am

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by anoop » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:07 pm

Thanks for the side discussion. It can probably hijack the main topic and then some. :)

I should at least answer the OP. I stopped owning a camera a few years ago and rely only on my iPhone.

The last camera that I really enjoyed was a Yashica T4 Super but that was film. IMO, even to this day there is not a camera that can match that one in terms of the quality of pics for the weight, battery life, versatile (e.g. the top viewfinder, awesome flash) yet minimalist design, and price of the camera.

If I'm going to settle for less, I might as well use the camera I always have with me. It is actually quite good but it takes some know how and patience to take the best possible pictures with it. I have an SE and newer phones with OIS are even better. Did you know you can use the volume button on the iPhone to click?

Nekrotok
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: Best take it everywhere camera

Post by Nekrotok » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:20 pm

anoop wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:A really uninspiring pair of photos that offer an extreme demonstration of the same foreground framing, but completely different perspective:

Wide angle (zoomed in by walking up close)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1359-1.jpg

Telephoto (zoomed out by walking back away)
http://patrickshannon.com/wp-content/up ... 1369-2.jpg


hmm...make me philosophical. What is reality and which one of those is real?


Both perspectives are real. They are two different views you get by standing at two different locations and looking with different amounts of your field/angle of view. If you stand up close and look with all your peripheral vision, you get that wide angle view. If you stand far away, and look with only a small center part of your vision, you get that second, telephoto view. The photos are just recordings of those two views, so that you can look at them and re-experience the same view again later if you want to. To accurately do so, you would have to recreate the same angle of view when you look at the photos as when you took the photos. For the wide angle view, you would have to hold the photo right up in your face so that it covers your peripheral vision. For the telephoto view, you would have to put the photo far off in the distance so that it only fills a small center part of your vision. Generally, nobody bothers to do that, and you just look at an image that has a different perspective. Like looking through a lens or a convex mirror, it's effectively bending the light of the captured view through the photo to you as you look at the photo. Despite photos being two dimensional images, photography is actually a 3-D process of capturing a 2-D projection of a 3-D world. It's not as simple as sticking an image into a scanner/photocopier.

Post Reply