Honda Transmission Service

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rashad3000
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Honda Transmission Service

Post by rashad3000 »

Hello. In 2011, we bought a 2003 Honda Pilot with 171,000 miles. After about 2 months, the transmission went out. The dealership inexplicably gave me a 3 month, 3000 mile warranty (I believe the sales manager who accidently gave this to me was fired). They had to replace the entire transmission.

The car now has 210,000 miles. I am hearing mixed answers on whether or not I should have a transmission "flush" done. Some say to do a flush at 40,000 miles. Some people say to drain and replace and that a flush is harmful. Some say to flush at 75,000 miles. Some say to not even worry about doing anything to it.

What do you think? Any mechanics here who can help with this?
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rob
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by rob »

I have them drain & fill rather than flush......
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rashad3000
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by rashad3000 »

rob wrote:I have them drain & fill rather than flush......
Thanks Rob. How often do you drain and fill? What year, make, and model?
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rob
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by rob »

I just do it on schedule.... It's a 05 minivan... trans is still smooth...
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rooms222
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by rooms222 »

We had a Pilot that was recently totaled. I remember reading that the transmission fluid should be changed frequently, but never flushed. A change only changes 1/3rd to 1/2 the fluid, but is better on the transmission. A change on a Pilot is done by gravity, and 3-4.5 quarts of the 10 quarts of fluid comes out that way. The new fluid is poured into the ATF dipstick hole. Using Honda´s own ATF fluid is recommended.

It is a simple enough procedure, most people could do it themselves- Undo Bolt, Collect fluid that drains out naturally, put back bolt, and fill until dipstick reads full when engine running.

Although some people do it as frequently as 15,000 miles, 30,000 miles or so is fine.

This thread has more details- http://www.piloteers.org/forums/18-main ... d-oil.html
Last edited by rooms222 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Sandtrap »

rob wrote:I have them drain & fill rather than flush......
+1
Watch the consumer reports and other youtube videos on "transmission flush". Have a reputable transmission shop or dealer drain and fill, replace filters as needed. Like motor oil, transmission fluid breaks down. Replacement is better.
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InterestingMoney
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by InterestingMoney »

Don't flush. Just do a drain and fill. I have a 2003 CR-V, and I just drain and fill it myself every ~15k miles. My manual states that a "proper" transmission fluid service is three drain and fills every 30k miles, with a few miles driven in between each. That's too much hassle for me, so I just do one every other oil change or so. It's been working fine for my CR-V with 140k miles.

Also, you're supposed to use Honda DW-1 automatic transmission fluid. I don't bother with that, either. I've only ever used Valvoline Maxlife, Castrol Transmax Multi-Vehicle, or Mag1 Multi-Vehicle. So far, so good.
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jabberwockOG
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by jabberwockOG »

An ATF flush is done using a machine that forces ALL the old ATF out of the AT under pressure and then pumps in brand new ATF. There is lots of anecdotal stories/evidence that the flush process sometimes causes AT problems because the pressure blows debris and wear particles in the AT into the small valves and other passages in the AT and that causes clogs that then damage the transmission despite the brand new fluid. The story also goes that the older the ATF is, and the dirtier the fluid, before the flush, the more likely a flush will cause clogging related problems because of the wear and dirt in the old maintained AT. So theoretically a ATF flush would be very safe on a new or regularly flushed AT but not on an old high mile AT that has not been serviced regularly.
On the other hand a drain and fill is just that - open the ATF pan drain plug and whatever ATF is in the pan drains out due to simple gravity...no pressure. Depending on the make and model AT an ATF drain will drain 2.5 to 4.5 quarts out of a total of 9-12 quarts total. Since there is no pressure in this process there is very little chance that loose internal debris and wear particles will get blown around internally. But a drain and fill never results in truly brand new ATF. Instead only a portion is drained and then that portion is refilled.

However replacing 1/4 to 1/3 of ATF in your trans once every year or two depending on how much you drive will likely result in problem free AT for the life of the car. I have been doing a one ATF drain and fill every 30k miles on my cars for 30 years and have never had any AT issues on any car over approx 1 million miles of driving. Some folks do one drain and fill every 15 k miles depending on the make and model. Others do 3 drain and fills back to back every 60k miles. There is no absolute right answer or any absoluet objective standard that I know of with this process.

Many modern day cars owner manuals state that the ATF is lifetime and does not need to be replaced. This is 100% horse poop. Just ask the service manager what "lifetime" means and I suggest wearing boots to hear the answer. And then ask if the never serviced ATF fails will they repair for free?
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sunny_socal
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by sunny_socal »

You should have been doing a drain & fill every 10k miles (it only gets out part of the old oil) or getting all of it replaced every 30k miles. The "lifetime fluid" is exactly that - the fluid will last until the transmission dies, whenever that happens to be! :wink:

A quick & drain and fill is simple, easier than an oil change. I do it every other oil change on my wife's Pilot. No problems so far.
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F150HD
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by F150HD »

sounds like most of the vehicles people are quoting have a transmission specific drain plug? (pretty handy)

nearly any vehicle I've owned, I've had to drop the entire tranny pan to drain the fluid. This then involves re-installation using the proper torquing sequence and a new gasket. Also leans at putting in a new filter while the pan is off.

Personally, this isn't something I'd encourage a novice to do, esp if they don't own a torque wrench.

Always use OEM fluid too else weird things can happen. Just my experience.
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jharkin
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by jharkin »

Yet another vote to NEVER power flush a transmission. Guaranteed failure.

Drain and fill.


The 1st generation Honda Pilot (your 2003 is a gen 1) maintenance schedule had you do drain and fill at the first 45k and then every 30k miles or 2 years. My gen II has the maintenance minder and its been calibrated for a first change at around 100k then every 60k I think but I do it on the gen1 30k schedule due to Honda's rep for transmission problems.

Another issue is that the older transmissions used Honda ATF Z1 which was a conventional based formula. One of the changes they made to help resolve the rash of failures in the mid-late 2000s was to introduce a new formula ATF DW-1 which is all synthetic. The new trans you got in 2011 may have either fluid in it, if you know its DW1 just do a drain and fill every 30k with DW1. Each drain fill only changes 1/3 of the fluid, so If you are unsure I would do the 3 changes every 10k at first to make sure you got all the old Z1 out, and then just change every 30k.

If you cant change with DW1 another excellent option is Redline D4. A lot of us where using that as a substitute for Z1 before Honda made their own synthetic.

I know some folks seem to do it very often like every oil change... But I dont see a need with the new synthetic ATFs. I'm comfortable with a drain every 30. I dont think dealers every did the 3 drains process even with the old conventional formula. And most OEMs are stretching the intervals out to 100,120 or lifetime on these synthetics.


F150HD - Like you have experienced, most American makes, and some older Toyota's Ive seen require you to drop the pan. Honda's are different. The Honda automatic is actually a unique design different from everybody else, rather than planetary gearing and band clutches its built like an automated manual box - a main and countershaft layout with helical cut spur gears activated by a set of wet clutches. Honda went off on this direction unique in the automotive world back in the 70s... Ive read a couple different reasons why, one said it was done because it packages better for FWD than a traditional auto, another said that they had to because GM would not let them have rights to atuo trans patents when they wanted to bring compact cars to the USA during the oil shocks...

Either way, one result of this is that an ATF change in a Honda automatic is done like a fluid change in a manual box. There is a traditional drain plug on the bottom of the trans, and on many of them a large diameter fill plug up top. (The generally have a lifetime internal filter that cant be changed without taking the transmission apart.) Ive done the fluid change on Pilots, Acocrds, Civic's and a Fit and in every case its a 10 minute job other than the process to check the level.
Last edited by jharkin on Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
rutrow2015
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by rutrow2015 »

Another Flush down vote.

In late 1990's I had a Dodge Intrepid that I opted to have the "transmission flush" service done while I was in for an oil change at one of the Jiffy places - I forget the mileage but it wasn't over 60k. Drove the car the next day and the transmission failed. Engine revved but I coasted to side of road where a large puddle of transmission fluid quickly formed. Turns out the power flush had reversed at least one gasket. Result - total transmission rebuild at about $2,000+. Couldn't get the oil change place to accept any responsibility and because it was a fleet car I didn't pursue it on my own.

If you must - you must drain.
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fire5soon
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by fire5soon »

I wouldn't do a flush. Just drain the old fluid, replace the filter, move on. I do this every 25k miles on my automatic car, but I probably change mine more frequently than needed. I figure it's cheap insurance and I do it myself so the costs are minimized. Just make sure you are using the ATF (automatic transmission fluid) recommended for your car. Using the wrong ATF can cause damage.
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Frugal Al
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Frugal Al »

Good advice from jharkin. DO NOT FLUSH. For the Honda automatic (problematic) transmissions, a single drain and fill every 30k is the way to go. The DW1 is the fully compatible with the Z1, so there's no need to get anal about a (relatively) full change-out of 3 drains/fills. Changing any sooner is a waste of money and time.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by smitcat »

No flush
At 30,000 mile intervals or so I drain and replace the fluid 3 times in succession with a very short drive in between. Takes just over 3 qts on each drain and replace and the drain in just behind the front left tire. Also got a pack of like 20 drain bolt washers off of ebay a while back so I use new washer on the last drain. Use the correct Honda fluid no mater what you do.
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Watty
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Watty »

smitcat wrote:Use the correct Honda fluid no mater what you do.
+1

I am not a mechanic but I have heard stories of other "compatible" brands causing problems. This is especially important if the car is still under the powertrain warranty since you don't want to void the warranty.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by barnaclebob »

A flush is not "guaranteed" problems and none of you have any data to support your claims. I've done a transmission flush on an old transmission with no problems. However I do my own work now and its drain and fills for me because of that now. I also have also used compatible Valvoline CVT fluid with no issues over 15000 miles later on a Nissan CVT and Valvoline ATF in a transfer case also with no issues so far. OEM fluid is not always required.

Here is an alternate theory: People tend to only have transmission work done when the transmission is already acting up. They go have flushes done but its already too late and the tranny is on its last legs. When it craps out shortly thereafter its obviously the flush that was at fault.

I also agree that drain and fills are most likely sufficient and I'm not saying that flushes cant cause problems but nobody knows the % of time that they shorten the life of a transmission.
Hanksmoney
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Hanksmoney »

I have an '05 Acura TL. That car has a common transmission failure at 75K miles. At 75K mine started slipping. Turns out Honda's Z1 fluid had too many friction modifiers (too slippery) which caused "smooth" shifts which is ultimately excessive grinding of the clutch plates. You'll notice that Honda sneakily changed their ATF to DW-1 but never owned up to the failures that the Z1 caused. (The DW-1 formula is supposed to be safe to use).

Through forum research at Acurazine, they found that not only was the Honda fluid a problem, but that the pressure sensors fade out of tolerance altering the shift points. So at 75K, I changed the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches and switched to a Red Line D4 ATF fluid. I haven't had a slip since at 190K. First, I did a 3x drain and fill method. Since the transmission will only drain 3qts of the 8qts, doing this 3x's gets rid of a high percentage of old fluid. Since that initial "flush" I do a single maintenance drain and fill of 3qts every 20-30K and have had great results.

One thing I learned above all else is this: The transmission is a sensitive piece of machinery but will last if properly treated. Leaving an old, oxidized fluid that has completely changed friction characteristics is exactly why transmissions die under 120K miles. Along those same lines, the old wives tale of changing the fluid kills the TM is ignorant. However, if you put just any fluid back in the ATF, it can CERTAINLY cause a failure. The first time I replaced the fluid I used Catrol Import ATF (supposed to be for Hondas) and my transmission started slipping like crazy. I'd hypothesis that that is what started the wives tale along with the Flushing issues mentioned above.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by barnaclebob »

Hanksmoney wrote:I have an '05 Acura TL. That car has a common transmission failure at 75K miles. At 75K mine started slipping. Turns out Honda's Z1 fluid had too many friction modifiers (too slippery) which caused "smooth" shifts which is ultimately excessive grinding of the clutch plates. You'll notice that Honda sneakily changed their ATF to DW-1 but never owned up to the failures that the Z1 caused. (The DW-1 formula is supposed to be safe to use).
BLASPHEMY! I refuse to hear anything to the contrary that all Honda's or Toyotas last less than 250k miles.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by jharkin »

barnaclebob wrote:A flush is not "guaranteed" problems and none of you have any data to support your claims. I've done a transmission flush on an old transmission with no problems.
Is it guaranteed? No. But most of us who work on our cars have heard enough horror stories of failures following a power flush to be wary. I think many factory service manuals advise against it also. Seems to be a typical upsell of old time transmission shops...

Hanksmoney wrote: Along those same lines, the old wives tale of changing the fluid kills the TM is ignorant.
I think the wives tale may have grown out of horror stories from "flush services". The theory (like Barnacle said I have no idea if their is statistical data to prove this, just a theory) goes something like this:

- In trans that s gone 100k or more without ever having a change done, sediment from clutch and gear wear builds up in all the little nooks and crannies inside the case.
- Owner takes old car to transmission shop. They do a power flush to "get all the old fluid out"
- Power flush disturbs all this sediment which is now circulating around in the new fluid
- Sediment gets trapped in the tiny passages of the valve body and they clog up causing your failure
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by smitcat »

"A flush is not "guaranteed" problems and none of you have any data to support your claims. I've done a transmission flush on an old transmission with no problems. However I do my own work now and its drain and fills for me because of that now. I also have also used compatible Valvoline CVT fluid with no issues over 15000 miles later on a Nissan CVT and Valvoline ATF in a transfer case also with no issues so far. OEM fluid is not always required."

My friend has been the service manager for a large busy Honda dealer for over 15 years (long Island NY) - over the first 3 years I worked there with him in service.
Flushing - not a guaranteed problem but likely, don't use the correct fluid and yes you are very likely to have issues fairly soon.
wander
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by wander »

I flushed transmission fluid on my cars. It is safe, but you must know how to do it properly otherwise it may become a disaster. I wouldn't let people perform the work on my car.
Like other posters mentioned: you should used Honda transmission fluid (get from Honda dealers), and never let anyone do power flush on the car.
Last edited by wander on Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by smitcat »

delete
Last edited by smitcat on Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
wander
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by wander »

smitcat wrote:"I flushed transmission fluid on my cars. It is safe, but you must know how to do it properly otherwise it may become a disaster. I wouldn't let people perform the work on my car."

So have I - but we are talking specifically about Honda cars and their trans in this post.
I think flushing transmission technique is the same for Honda, Toyota or Nissan. What makes you think Honda is different?
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by barnaclebob »

smitcat wrote: My friend has been the service manager for a large busy Honda dealer for over 15 years (long Island NY) - over the first 3 years I worked there with him in service.
Flushing - not a guaranteed problem but likely, don't use the correct fluid and yes you are very likely to have issues fairly soon.
If flushing likely causes problems then why did your service manager friend do them?
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by smitcat »

"If flushing likely causes problems then why did your service manager friend do them?"

Not done at that site - brought in after flushing elsewhere.
I am not posting to convince you not to flush your Honda - please do as you like with your car.
Perhaps visit the very active Honda owners site and do a bit of research there before you decide.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by smitcat »

"I think flushing transmission technique is the same for Honda, Toyota or Nissan. What makes you think Honda is different?"

I do not know if Toyota's or Nissans are the same or not as I have no experiences with them. Based upon what I have read about their transmissions (especially Nissan) I would guess they are very different in just about all respects. I do know that the Chevy and Ford automatics I have worked with are completely different so the guidance there would not be the same.
Once again perhaps spending some time researching on the Honda owners club for this issue may help with your decisions.
NJdad6
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by NJdad6 »

+1 to drain and refill. Very easy to do yourself however the drain bolt is hard to get started. FYI - had a 2002 Odyssey known for transmission failure. Performed drain and refill every 30,000 miles with Castrol import ATF (Honda compatible) and sold with 180k miles. Original transmission with no issues.
wander
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by wander »

smitcat wrote:"I think flushing transmission technique is the same for Honda, Toyota or Nissan. What makes you think Honda is different?"

I do not know if Toyota's or Nissans are the same or not as I have no experiences with them. Based upon what I have read about their transmissions (especially Nissan) I would guess they are very different in just about all respects. I do know that the Chevy and Ford automatics I have worked with are completely different so the guidance there would not be the same.
Once again perhaps spending some time researching on the Honda owners club for this issue may help with your decisions.
Not sure what you mean by "completely different". Regardless of designs, mostly all transmissions run with fluid and need to cool it by routing to transmission cooler. For Honda, just un-clip the return rubber tube from trans cooler and flush the fluid completely. Same technique with many cars I know.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Sandtrap »

barnaclebob wrote:
smitcat wrote: My friend has been the service manager for a large busy Honda dealer for over 15 years (long Island NY) - over the first 3 years I worked there with him in service.
Flushing - not a guaranteed problem but likely, don't use the correct fluid and yes you are very likely to have issues fairly soon.
If flushing likely causes problems then why did your service manager friend do them?
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inbox788
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by inbox788 »

Reminds me, I'm overdue for an oild change and transmission drain and fill.

I wouldn't flush it if it wasn't already having problems (and maybe even if it were for fear of worsening the problem). You're performing preventative maintenance, so keep it minimal. Like other have said, draining and filling the transmission fluid only changes about 1/3 the fluid. Doing it 3 times might changeout about 80-90%. Since it doesn't sound like you're having problems, I'd just do a drain and fill with every other oil change. This way, there's some new oil that helps clean the oil and replace some protectants. First take a look at the transmission oil color and if it's pink, you should be good. If it's not so pink, you could change it with every oil change for the next 3 changes and if it's brown, change it 3 times now.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by smitcat »

"Not sure what you mean by "completely different". Regardless of designs, mostly all transmissions run with fluid and need to cool it by routing to transmission cooler. For Honda, just un-clip the return rubber tube from trans cooler and flush the fluid completely. Same technique with many cars I know."

I am not sure if your background leads you to believe that all transmissions are generally alike and that all fluid is equally similar.
If your thoughts are that all ATF fluid is the same and buying the cheapest will work out fine then I would suggest you bring the car/truck in for service at a reliable center.
If your thoughts agree that ATF fluids vary greatly as does the way transmissions work then you already know that mixing up fluids will wreck a transmission within a short time.
If you do own a Honda and choose to research the issues at the Honda owners site I can only surmise it would be advantageous to you.
If you do own a Honda and are on the site there are a few master Honda techs that often will lend their experiences on that site as to what they do with their own Hondas.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by wander »

smitcat wrote:"Not sure what you mean by "completely different". Regardless of designs, mostly all transmissions run with fluid and need to cool it by routing to transmission cooler. For Honda, just un-clip the return rubber tube from trans cooler and flush the fluid completely. Same technique with many cars I know."

I am not sure if your background leads you to believe that all transmissions are generally alike and that all fluid is equally similar.
If your thoughts are that all ATF fluid is the same and buying the cheapest will work out fine then I would suggest you bring the car/truck in for service at a reliable center.
If your thoughts agree that ATF fluids vary greatly as does the way transmissions work then you already know that mixing up fluids will wreck a transmission within a short time.
If you do own a Honda and choose to research the issues at the Honda owners site I can only surmise it would be advantageous to you.
If you do own a Honda and are on the site there are a few master Honda techs that often will lend their experiences on that site as to what they do with their own Hondas.
Did I mention above to use Honda trans fluid for Honda transmission? I did. Technique is the same, use recommended fluid for each car. I think you are trying to put words in my mouth.
I didn't follow any Honda web site, but I did replace timing belt for my friends' Honda Odyssey, my master was the Haynes manual.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Hanksmoney »

wander wrote: Regardless of designs, mostly all transmissions run with fluid and need to cool it by routing to transmission cooler. For Honda, just un-clip the return rubber tube from trans cooler and flush the fluid completely. Same technique with many cars I know.
+1 - This is an easy way to do a 100% fluid replacement without the drain and fill method. You can save a little bit a of fluid and avoid the pain of 3 drain and fills will drives in between. It takes a little bit of mechanical skill though.
You have to:
1)crank your car
2)put a container with qt markings under the ATF return line
3)open up all of your ATF fluid bottles and have your funnel inserterd and ready
4)open the return line and fluid will be continuously pumped out
5)simultaneously pour the fluid into the transmission at a similar pace (doesn't have to be perfect)
6)once you've drained the number of qt's you are adding, stop. (8qt line or whatever)

It's actually a pretty clean way to do it, but most people don't. This is not a "power" flush, but what still a safe, full flush.
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Frugal Al
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Frugal Al »

Yes, you can do it that way Hank, but why if you don't have to? It's actually more difficult, as well as a waste of time and money. One change-out (3 qts) every 30k is all you need to do (a nice ATF funnel makes this easy and quick). Even changing every other oil change is overkill. At 120k or so one might consider changing out the in-line ATF filter, but even that is not usually necessary unless there seems to be shifting issues. This really isn't that difficult. Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
Frisco Kid
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Frisco Kid »

Your car is 14 years old and has a fair amount of miles although certainly not excessive mileage. +1 for drain and fill, the last four years you averaged 6500 miles a year. Check it frequently maintaining the level and checking both color and smell. As soon as it goes brown and/or smells change it, I would even do yearly if you plan on keeping the vehicle as a new transmission may exceed the value of the car.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Frisco Kid »

Hanksmoney, I assume you do something to prevent the car from starting?
smitcat
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by smitcat »

Here is one link that has the Honda TSB (technical service bulletin) quoted....
http://www.odysseyownersclub.com/forums ... hp?p=59810

You can easily find many similar factory TSB's and trained tech suggestions for these transmissions by searching on specific Honda owners club sites such as : CRV, Accord,
Pilot , etc.

Just Google - "Honda XXXX owners club, transmission fluid replacement"
Alternately you can request the most updated TSB for your Honda trans fluid replacement at your Honda dealer.
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Tycoon
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Tycoon »

Alternately one could google Honda/Acura automatic transmission failure and decide whether it's worth it to drop money on the transmission failure game.
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by jharkin »

Interesting the directions this thread has gone. I see there is some polarization of camps, some folks think that every single automatic is differnet, others seem to think that every single manufacturer is the same.

In reality there are 4 basic groups of automatics, with minor implementation detail differences.

The oldest and most common type is the traditional planetary gear automatic. Probably 90% of auto boxes on the planet work this way. Both Ford and GM transmissions mentioned above work this way just with some differences in implementation and slight variation in the fluid mix.

For those who dont know how one works, read this: http://jalopnik.com/this-is-how-an-auto ... -517581894

The second type is the subject of this thread - the Hondamatic. I mis-remembered the patent dispute, it was BorgWarner, not GM, who withheld patent licensing. But either way, its a very unique design that works more like an automated manual.

Read: http://world.honda.com/history/challeng ... ondamatic/


The third type is the CVT. Conceptually they work like lawnmower transmissions that use belts running over variable diameter pulleys made up of concentric cones. There are many different automotive implementations, some use chains, some use rollers, some are hydrostatic type...

Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuou ... ansmission


The 4th type is the dual clutch automated manual (aka DCT, Tiptronic, Porsche PDK, etc). This is a manual gearbox with actuators that change the gears and a pair of wet clutches in place of the manually actuated foot clutch.
Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission
...

As far as the fluids, yes nearly every OEM has their own formula, but there are major groups/standards (like Dexron, Mercon, Toyota T& WS, Honda Z&DW, Esso, Shell) and there is enough overlap in the specs that many aftermarket oil companies produce jsut a few blends each of which satisfies multiple standards. The thing is most OEMs wont guarantee anything with an aftermarket fluid so they all say OEM only.

There are some fluids where I absolutely would not trust any aftermarket replacement. The Honda AWD rear differential fluid is very specialized and has no replacement. Some CVT fluids are very specialized and have no replacement.
Topic Author
rashad3000
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:20 pm

Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by rashad3000 »

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I went to the Honda dealership today and got the fluid drained and replaced. I also got an oil change. Everything cost $139 total. I need to do the next drain and replace at 240,000 miles. That will probably take me 4-5 years.
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pennstater2005
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:50 pm

Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by pennstater2005 »

This thread prompted me to go to the Honda dealership and get 3 quarts of ATF. Cost $26. I'll change it tomorrow. Simple drain and fill. Literally one drain bolt to remove. The filter is not listed as a maintenance item as Honda notes it is "lifetime". I have replaced mine once. I probably should do it again. It's hard to get to.
“If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.” – Earl Wilson
Topic Author
rashad3000
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:20 pm

Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by rashad3000 »

pennstater2005 wrote:This thread prompted me to go to the Honda dealership and get 3 quarts of ATF. Cost $26. I'll change it tomorrow. Simple drain and fill. Literally one drain bolt to remove. The filter is not listed as a maintenance item as Honda notes it is "lifetime". I have replaced mine once. I probably should do it again. It's hard to get to.
I will do my own next time.
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pennstater2005
Posts: 2509
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:50 pm

Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by pennstater2005 »

rashad3000 wrote:
pennstater2005 wrote:This thread prompted me to go to the Honda dealership and get 3 quarts of ATF. Cost $26. I'll change it tomorrow. Simple drain and fill. Literally one drain bolt to remove. The filter is not listed as a maintenance item as Honda notes it is "lifetime". I have replaced mine once. I probably should do it again. It's hard to get to.
I will do my own next time.
The 03' Pilot looks fairly easy to change. The ATF fluid is actually cheaper at the dealership than almost anywhere else! I looked and found it cheaper but add in shipping and ended up being more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN4vLVHIY2o (03' Pilot ATF change)

I looked at the transmission fluid filter change for your Pilot and it is more difficult than mine. Like I said, Honda calls them lifetime filters but I'm a little bit skeptical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODNIiP4LlHU (05' Pilot ATF filter change; 03-08 was first generation)

Someday I'll get to a point in my life where I won't do any of my own maintenance. My dad did all of his own maintenance for years, which is how I learned, but now he takes it to a local mechanic. I've offered to do it for him but he takes it there anyway.
“If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.” – Earl Wilson
Topic Author
rashad3000
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:20 pm

Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by rashad3000 »

Thank you for the great info!
Hanksmoney
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:04 am

Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by Hanksmoney »

Frisco Kid wrote:Hanksmoney, I assume you do something to prevent the car from starting?
No, you actually start the car (or have someone else start it) to initiate the ATF fluid pump. You fill as it flows out.
Frugal Al wrote:Yes, you can do it that way Hank, but why if you don't have to? It's actually more difficult, as well as a waste of time and money. One change-out (3 qts) every 30k is all you need to do (a nice ATF funnel makes this easy and quick). Even changing every other oil change is overkill. At 120k or so one might consider changing out the in-line ATF filter, but even that is not usually necessary unless there seems to be shifting issues. This really isn't that difficult. Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?
I've done it on cars where I needed to replace all of the fluid and not just a 1/3 of it like the 3qt method does. The Honda transmissions and many others hold 7-9 qts total. One instance I did this method was my wife's Camaro got a rebuilt transmission and they put some crap fluid in it that was causing slippage early on. I wanted it all out instead of creating ratios of old fluid mixed with new fluid.
wander
Posts: 4419
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:10 am

Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by wander »

jharkin wrote:Interesting the directions this thread has gone. I see there is some polarization of camps, some folks think that every single automatic is differnet, others seem to think that every single manufacturer is the same.

In reality there are 4 basic groups of automatics, with minor implementation detail differences.

The oldest and most common type is the traditional planetary gear automatic. Probably 90% of auto boxes on the planet work this way. Both Ford and GM transmissions mentioned above work this way just with some differences in implementation and slight variation in the fluid mix.

For those who dont know how one works, read this: http://jalopnik.com/this-is-how-an-auto ... -517581894

The second type is the subject of this thread - the Hondamatic. I mis-remembered the patent dispute, it was BorgWarner, not GM, who withheld patent licensing. But either way, its a very unique design that works more like an automated manual.

Read: http://world.honda.com/history/challeng ... ondamatic/


The third type is the CVT. Conceptually they work like lawnmower transmissions that use belts running over variable diameter pulleys made up of concentric cones. There are many different automotive implementations, some use chains, some use rollers, some are hydrostatic type...

Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuou ... ansmission


The 4th type is the dual clutch automated manual (aka DCT, Tiptronic, Porsche PDK, etc). This is a manual gearbox with actuators that change the gears and a pair of wet clutches in place of the manually actuated foot clutch.
Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission
...

As far as the fluids, yes nearly every OEM has their own formula, but there are major groups/standards (like Dexron, Mercon, Toyota T& WS, Honda Z&DW, Esso, Shell) and there is enough overlap in the specs that many aftermarket oil companies produce jsut a few blends each of which satisfies multiple standards. The thing is most OEMs wont guarantee anything with an aftermarket fluid so they all say OEM only.

There are some fluids where I absolutely would not trust any aftermarket replacement. The Honda AWD rear differential fluid is very specialized and has no replacement. Some CVT fluids are very specialized and have no replacement.
I think the thread is about transmission fluid. With all types of transmission, can you tell me which transmission (manual or automatic) does not use fluid that needs to be cooled? I only know few imported cars, so I may miss something.
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William4u
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Re: Honda Transmission Service

Post by William4u »

If Honda owners would just do a drain and fill with ATF once a year, about 99% of them would never need major transmission service. The old atf looses some of its additive strength and leaving the old fluid in leaves small pieces of metal that wear the gears like sandpaper.
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