Suspicious organic products

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engineer4286
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by engineer4286 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:55 pm

And the fact that GMO seeds can help solve issues with climate change and organic may exacerbate climate change and be a less sustainable farming practice... :shock:

coalcracker
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by coalcracker » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:00 pm

I always get a laugh at the "all natural" labels on products these days. People seem to forget how much of "nature" is poisonous.

BW1985
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by BW1985 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:48 pm

livesoft wrote:Round-up / glyphosate is not a pesticide anyways. But neither is bacon to my knowledge.


Herbicide. Either way, not something I personally want on my food.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by cheese_breath » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:04 pm

BBBob wrote:.... As for scams, the cost of manufacturing a $50,000 car is not much different than the cost of manufacturing a $25,000 car...

That's why I buy the $25K car instead of the $50K car, just like I buy the 57 cent bananas instead of the 89 cent organic bananas.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by cheese_breath » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:08 pm

gkaplan wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:Don't even consider gluten free eating unless you have celiac disease.


Please read my response up-thread. I have Crohn's disease. Because of that, I am on a very restricted diet, including lactose-free and gluten-free.

DW isn't even a chron :D :D :D , but she also has to avoid lactose and gluten foods due to food allergies.
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mouses
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by mouses » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:19 pm

VictoriaF wrote:My opinions are similar to Raybo's with two additions:
1. I avoid carbohydrate-rich food and thus don't buy either wheat or rice.
2. Much of my organic food (produce, chicken, eggs) comes from Costco and Whole Foods, and I am assuming that Costco and Whole Foods are selecting their suppliers better than other stores.

Victoria


I would not assume that. My understanding is that a lot of Whole Foods "organic" products are from China. There seems to be zero supervision or regulation in China for food or medicine safety issues.

The former CEO of Whole Foods, John Mackey, has expressed views about as contrary to the views one would expect of anyone interested in organic foods as is imaginable. I tried to word that to get past the mods :-) What I am trying to say is, buying "organic" products from Whole Foods is like setting the fox to guard the hen house.

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Tycoon
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Tycoon » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:43 pm

Once again a thread reminds me of the discussion my wife and I routinely have when she says she doesn't want "chemicals" in her food. I try to argue that it would be phenomenally hard to find food without chemicals, but it never ends well. My guess is this thread won't end well either.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by cheese_breath » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:56 pm

Can someone tell me the difference between organic and natural. They both cost more than I want to pay.
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dm200
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by dm200 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:19 pm

For food and diet, I usually go by "what the science says" : www.nutritionfacts.org

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dm200
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by dm200 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:21 pm

cheese_breath wrote:Can someone tell me the difference between organic and natural. They both cost more than I want to pay.


In my opinion, the difference is primarily the two different words printed on the label.

Remember there are many plants that are 100% natural, but are poisonous.

Trev H
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Trev H » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:56 pm

I do buy organic if it is available and reasonably priced.

I also grow and "put up" a lot of my own food (organic gardener).... and that is one source that I can trust.... even if I don't fully trust the other.
I make my own compost and use only organic fertilizers, gypsum, bone meal, blood meal, epson salt, green sand, etc

I also eat a lot of wild caught fish from local creek and small river, local lakes... and deer and squirrels and turkey that grow wild right here on my own land.

Do what you can to stay healthy.

Health means nothing to you... until you get unhealthy and suffer from it. I have been there and done that... and now I do what I can to eat better and stay better now.

Some Don'ts and .... Do's.. (for me) that I have changed over the years.

Soft drinks, sweetened drinks in general... instead water, green tea, black tea, tumeric/ginger tea, kombucha
Refined Sugar........ instead Organic Raw Honey (local when possible), Coconut palm sugar
Dairy................... instead raw organic yogurt, and homemade kefir
Hydrogenated Oils... instead Olive Oil, Coconut Oil, Real Butter
Refined Flower products...... instead whole grains
Heaps of fatty sugar loaded processed foods........... instead lots of fruits and vegetables, nuts, berries, seeds, fish, lean meats (wild, or grass fed).

I eat lots of Greens too (Spinach, Kale, Chard, Parsley, Turnip, Beet, etc)... grown in my own garden. I grow them in the spring and fall, and freeze them by the gallon bag full for longer storage.

It goes on...

To some of you that may sound extreme... but I tell you when you get there health wise, you will either get wise and start eating right, or continue to suffer and eventually kick the bucket.

Eat well, live long and prosper.

Trev H

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by iamlucky13 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:40 pm

cheese_breath wrote:Can someone tell me the difference between organic and natural. They both cost more than I want to pay.


Organic is more related to the growing of the food, and focuses on treatments like pesticides and antibiotics. Organic is also a USDA regulated label that you're required to follow certain rules to use, including getting certified if you sell more than a certain amount of organic labeled food per year.

Natural is not strictly regulated, but generally construed as not including ingredients that require significant processing to make, which in that case would be considered artificial.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by BBBob » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:44 pm

dm200 wrote:For food and diet, I usually go by "what the science says" : http://www.nutritionfacts.org


Interesting site (and home page video!). Thanks for posting.

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dm200
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by dm200 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:44 pm

BBBob wrote:
dm200 wrote:For food and diet, I usually go by "what the science says" : http://www.nutritionfacts.org

Interesting site (and home page video!). Thanks for posting.


In addition to the "science based" food and diet information, this site has numerous examples of how various industry interests "twist" the science for their own economic interests. That is helpful in many other areas - not food, health or diet related.

david99
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by david99 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:22 pm

If you do a search on nutritionfacts.org you can find some useful videos on organic products.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by VictoriaF » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:32 pm

dm200 wrote:
BBBob wrote:
dm200 wrote:For food and diet, I usually go by "what the science says" : http://www.nutritionfacts.org

Interesting site (and home page video!). Thanks for posting.


In addition to the "science based" food and diet information, this site has numerous examples of how various industry interests "twist" the science for their own economic interests. That is helpful in many other areas - not food, health or diet related.


dm200, thank you for recommending the site.

I briefly reviewed a few topics (videos) and found them well argued. However, I am puzzled that you are recommending this site while arguing against organic produce, whereas Dr. Greger points out the advantages of organic produce e.g., in this article: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/are-the ... overrated/

My summary of his review is as follows:
1. Eating organic food should not be used as an excuse not to exercise.
2. Organic junk (e.g., cookies) is still junk.
3. One should not forego inorganic produce when organic is not available. The benefits of any produce outweigh any issues with inorganic produce.
4. Given a choice between organic and inorganic produce, organic is preferable.

Victoria
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by randomguy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:36 pm

misterno wrote:
Went to the local walmart grabbed one just to try. At home I opened the package and realized that my wife bought the exact same brand exact same size exact same rice just not organic. You won't believe how they both look exactly same. The texture the color, the size the shape.

The price is 50% more but what if it is the same product? What would you do? How do you pursue?


Why would you expect organic rice to taste different than nonOrganic rice? The fact they are grown slightly differently is pretty minor compared to the rest. They could very well be the same seeds where one is grown in ways that meet organic certification and the other isn't. The only stuff that I find that tastes different (not better or worse. different) is the grass feed meats.

As to if it makes a health difference and how much, nobody knows. If your broccoli is organic or not matters a heck of a lot less than the fact that you are eating broccoli instead of say a Twinkie.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by auggiedoggies » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:49 pm

knpstr wrote:
misterno wrote:Went to the local walmart grabbed one just to try. At home I opened the package and realized that my wife bought the exact same brand exact same size exact same rice just not organic. You won't believe how they both look exactly same. The texture the color, the size the shape.

The price is 50% more but what if it is the same product? What would you do? How do you pursue?


Not sure why you are surprised. Being organic doesn't necessarily change the look and taste.

Taste (of fruits/vegetables) is best enhanced by buying locally grown food.



Really? I would think taste of fruits/veggies is enhanced by buying food that is grown in the ideal climate for that specific food.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by knpstr » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:57 pm

auggiedoggies wrote:Really? I would think taste of fruits/veggies is enhanced by buying food that is grown in the ideal climate for that specific food.


One can grow veggies organically or use spray on the same veggies to keep away bugs/weeds in nearly the same location/climate.
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dm200
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by dm200 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:02 pm

knpstr wrote:
auggiedoggies wrote:Really? I would think taste of fruits/veggies is enhanced by buying food that is grown in the ideal climate for that specific food.

One can grow veggies organically or use spray on the same veggies to keep away bugs/weeds in nearly the same location/climate.


I believe that locally grown fruits and vegetables may taste better is that they can be picked much closer to maturity, whereas those shipped long distances may: 1. be picked much earlier; and 2. are of varieties that place priority on keeping a long time vs taste.

BW1985
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by BW1985 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:02 pm

auggiedoggies wrote:
knpstr wrote:
misterno wrote:Went to the local walmart grabbed one just to try. At home I opened the package and realized that my wife bought the exact same brand exact same size exact same rice just not organic. You won't believe how they both look exactly same. The texture the color, the size the shape.

The price is 50% more but what if it is the same product? What would you do? How do you pursue?


Not sure why you are surprised. Being organic doesn't necessarily change the look and taste.

Taste (of fruits/vegetables) is best enhanced by buying locally grown food.



Really? I would think taste of fruits/veggies is enhanced by buying food that is grown in the ideal climate for that specific food.


It would, but it has to be picked early before traveling thousands of miles to get to you.
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Teague » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:03 pm

I've been suspicious of them for some time now. Cost is too high, under-vetted, possibly imported, and maybe without the proper documentation. 'Nuff said.

:wink:
Last edited by Teague on Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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knpstr
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by knpstr » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:03 pm

dm200 wrote:
knpstr wrote:
auggiedoggies wrote:Really? I would think taste of fruits/veggies is enhanced by buying food that is grown in the ideal climate for that specific food.

One can grow veggies organically or use spray on the same veggies to keep away bugs/weeds in nearly the same location/climate.


I believe that locally grown fruits and vegetables may taste better is that they can be picked much closer to maturity, whereas those shipped long distances may: 1. be picked much earlier; and 2. are of varieties that place priority on keeping a long time vs taste.


+1
Yes, this was my point... maybe missed by auggie.
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by auggiedoggies » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:16 pm

knpstr wrote:
dm200 wrote:
knpstr wrote:
auggiedoggies wrote:Really? I would think taste of fruits/veggies is enhanced by buying food that is grown in the ideal climate for that specific food.

One can grow veggies organically or use spray on the same veggies to keep away bugs/weeds in nearly the same location/climate.


I believe that locally grown fruits and vegetables may taste better is that they can be picked much closer to maturity, whereas those shipped long distances may: 1. be picked much earlier; and 2. are of varieties that place priority on keeping a long time vs taste.


+1
Yes, this was my point... maybe missed by auggie.


Ah yes, I did miss that point :oops: makes total sense :sharebeer

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cheese_breath
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by cheese_breath » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:39 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
cheese_breath wrote:Can someone tell me the difference between organic and natural. They both cost more than I want to pay.


Organic is more related to the growing of the food, and focuses on treatments like pesticides and antibiotics. Organic is also a USDA regulated label that you're required to follow certain rules to use, including getting certified if you sell more than a certain amount of organic labeled food per year.

Natural is not strictly regulated, but generally construed as not including ingredients that require significant processing to make, which in that case would be considered artificial.

Got ti. So when Aretha Franklin sings she feels like a natural woman we shouldn't assume she's organic.
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by VictoriaF » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:18 pm

cheese_breath wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
cheese_breath wrote:Can someone tell me the difference between organic and natural. They both cost more than I want to pay.


Organic is more related to the growing of the food, and focuses on treatments like pesticides and antibiotics. Organic is also a USDA regulated label that you're required to follow certain rules to use, including getting certified if you sell more than a certain amount of organic labeled food per year.

Natural is not strictly regulated, but generally construed as not including ingredients that require significant processing to make, which in that case would be considered artificial.

Got ti. So when Aretha Franklin sings she feels like a natural woman we shouldn't assume she's organic.


Aretha Franklin is an exception. She has some organs but they are not strictly regulated.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by bostondan » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:03 am

We recently went on vacation with another family. Since I am a doctor, they kept asking me questions about whether there is a health benefit for various things, such as organic foods, fancy moisturizers, homeopathy, acupuncture, along with harms of vaccination, various fad diets, etc. The usual types of questions. If I didn't know the latest data, I would always do some basic research. My answer was generally "be reasonable with your diet and eat a variety of stuff with a general focus on healthy-ish stuff, don't become obsessed with any specific type of food, don't go crazy avoiding anything (except maybe trans-fats), don't waste money on things that are fads without doing legitimate research (i.e. organic foods are basically meaningless, weird food crazes generally aren't based in reality), most alternative medicine doesn't work (otherwise it would be called "medicine" - it's not like us doctors are trying to sabotage you by not using something that works) but if it makes you feel better than go for it because it's probably also not harmful, exercise a reasonable and sustainable amount, and most things aren't that harmful so just relax a little."

While I thought my advice would be liberating because I'm basically saying, "just relax, you'll be fine doing a moderate amount of whatever," it actually had quite the opposite effect. I think it was perceived as taking away control of one's life, because it means you can't extend your life 10 years just by drinking a gallon of apple cider vinegar per day (FDA has warned against this) and that $500 moisturizer won't make your skin look prettier than $2 Lubriderm.

I tried hard to be upbeat when answering questions, but was given the nickname "Danny Downer." I eventually refused to answer any more questions!

When my in-laws ask me about stuff like, "Does Vitamin XYZ help me grow 10 feet taller?" I always respond with, "Hmm. Sounds interesting. I'll get back to you." I don't get back to them. Better to avoid those conversations.
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by sawhorse » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:39 am

cheese_breath wrote:Can someone tell me the difference between organic and natural. They both cost more than I want to pay.


Organic is legally defined and regulated. It may not mean what people commonly think it means, but it means something.

"Natural" is the most meaningless label as it's not legally defined. You can slap the label onto anything. 7up cans have (or at least had) "100% natural" written on the can.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by iamlucky13 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:14 am

bostondan wrote:I tried hard to be upbeat when answering questions, but was given the nickname "Danny Downer." I eventually refused to answer any more questions!


Wow. Sounds like a great vacation. I suppose maybe what they wanted was affirmation more so than honesty and were disappointed, but to respond with name-calling? Seriously?

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by bostondan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:01 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
bostondan wrote:I tried hard to be upbeat when answering questions, but was given the nickname "Danny Downer." I eventually refused to answer any more questions!


Wow. Sounds like a great vacation. I suppose maybe what they wanted was affirmation more so than honesty and were disappointed, but to respond with name-calling? Seriously?


They probably did want affirmation. I'd consider myself a skeptic (as in Skeptic Society - skeptic.com), so I have a hard time just accepting things that are well known to be false. Not all things are black and white, and I fully accept that. Unfortunately, some things are clearly false or harmful, based on quack science or people deliberately trying to take advantage of people, and I struggle to not be vocal in those situations. I don't do it to a degree that would be a problem by any standard.

As for the vacation, it was still great! We've all been friends since we were born, so a little argument over whether Crem de la Mer is worth $2000 (it's not and "Dr. Huber" the inventor may not even be a real person) certainly won't get in the way of our relationship.

When you're in Hawaii, which is where we vacationed, all you have to do to be happy again after a heated debate is to look outside and realize you're literally in paradise. Also, we got to see Obama on our vacation, who acknowledged my daughter with a little baby wave and it was amazing. I was really hoping he was going to pick her up so I could get a photo since word on the street is that he loves babies, but it didn't happen. Maybe next year.
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by cheese_breath » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:09 am

Every time DW gets excited about some pill or potion she heard advertised on the radio or TV that cures everything from cancer to hoof-in-mouth disease I tell her... "Sure. This guy nobody ever heard of whipped it up in his garage while all the big pharmaceutical companies have been working on it for years without coming up with anything"
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by ruralavalon » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:26 am

bostondan wrote: . . . . . My answer was generally "be reasonable with your diet and eat a variety of stuff with a general focus on healthy-ish stuff, don't become obsessed with any specific type of food, don't go crazy avoiding anything (except maybe trans-fats), don't waste money on things that are fads without doing legitimate research (i.e. organic foods are basically meaningless, weird food crazes generally aren't based in reality), most alternative medicine doesn't work (otherwise it would be called "medicine" - it's not like us doctors are trying to sabotage you by not using something that works) but if it makes you feel better than go for it because it's probably also not harmful, exercise a reasonable and sustainable amount, and most things aren't that harmful so just relax a little."
. . . . .

I love this post :) .
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by misterno » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:39 am

I hate Hawaii because I don't like to swim with sharks

I love organic fruits and vegetables because at the least you are avoiding chemical sprays, pesticides and all other artificial stuff related

Organic produce taste much better and not necessarily expensive. Organic brown rice is $1.50/lb, nonorganic not less than $1/lbs

I wish I can catch an organic product where I can get the lab analysis which shows pesticides or chemicals so that I can sue the company and make millions

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Michread » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:26 am

Raybo wrote:I knew what I wrote would get the reaction it got. That is why I said "To each his own."

Don't want to eat organic food? Think it's a waste of money? No reason to worry about chemicals put on/in food. OK, fine.

I don't want a $5,000 watch. I want to eat organic food. I don't want a $50,000 car, I want to ride my bicycle 1,000 miles through the mountains.

I long ago gave up being part of the mainstream thinking.

Maybe you are right and buying organic food is a scam, fraud, waste of time and money, and makes me ugly, too. So be it.

Though, it is comforting to know this thread will disappear soon, anyway.



LOL! :thumbsup

+5 (for each statement I agree with); :sharebeer

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by stoptothink » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:43 am

ruralavalon wrote:
bostondan wrote: . . . . . My answer was generally "be reasonable with your diet and eat a variety of stuff with a general focus on healthy-ish stuff, don't become obsessed with any specific type of food, don't go crazy avoiding anything (except maybe trans-fats), don't waste money on things that are fads without doing legitimate research (i.e. organic foods are basically meaningless, weird food crazes generally aren't based in reality), most alternative medicine doesn't work (otherwise it would be called "medicine" - it's not like us doctors are trying to sabotage you by not using something that works) but if it makes you feel better than go for it because it's probably also not harmful, exercise a reasonable and sustainable amount, and most things aren't that harmful so just relax a little."
. . . . .

I love this post :) .


It is great, and exactly what I love to hear from physicians. As a health and exercise scientist whose research was primarily in obesity (as I often am called at work, "the fat doctor"), and who works for a health products/supplement megacorp; I get hounded with similar questions on a daily basis and that is essentially my response as well. People are always looking for a magic bullet, when the reality is that scientific research confirms over-and-over-and-over again that it isn't that complex. It's a lifestyle, not a magic product or diet or exercise program. Eat whole unprocessed foods and move more; easy to understand, hard to live.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Jackson12 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:18 pm

We rarely buy organic food in the grocery store. We get it locally from the farmers. Same with chicken,beef, etc. Some offer homemade cheese, bread, yogurt, etc. And this option exists in many areas of the country.

I have been to many states where I had the opportunity to visit small farms which offeed tours. I could ask questions and see much about how they operated.

We don't buy only organic products. But - for our own reasons - we do prefer poultry and beef which we know has not come from huge factories and raised in conditions we believe carry increased health risks- to both animals and humans.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by BW1985 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:36 pm

Jackson12 wrote:We rarely buy organic food in the grocery store. We get it locally from the farmers. Same with chicken,beef, etc. Some offer homemade cheese, bread, yogurt, etc. And this option exists in many areas of the country.

I have been to many states where I had the opportunity to visit small farms which offeed tours. I could ask questions and see much about how they operated.

We don't buy only organic products. But - for our own reasons - we do prefer poultry and beef which we know has not come from huge factories and raised in conditions we believe carry increased health risks- to both animals and humans.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor.


This is the gold standard in my opinion. When you buy from the farm directly there is transparency so you know exactly what you're getting- how your food was grown/raised. On the other hand, if you buy from Big Ag at the grocery store you don't know, you can't see it and there's nobody to ask. Although really we have a pretty good idea from whistle blowers, and it ain't pretty.
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Jackson12 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm

BW1985 wrote:
Jackson12 wrote:We rarely buy organic food in the grocery store. We get it locally from the farmers. Same with chicken,beef, etc. Some offer homemade cheese, bread, yogurt, etc. And this option exists in many areas of the country.

I have been to many states where I had the opportunity to visit small farms which offeed tours. I could ask questions and see much about how they operated.

We don't buy only organic products. But - for our own reasons - we do prefer poultry and beef which we know has not come from huge factories and raised in conditions we believe carry increased health risks- to both animals and humans.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor.


This is the gold standard in my opinion. When you buy from the farm directly there is transparency so you know exactly what you're getting- how your food was grown/raised. On the other hand, if you buy from Big Ag at the grocery store you don't know, you can't see it and there's nobody to ask. Although really we have a pretty good idea from whistle blowers, and it ain't pretty.

Thanks. Also, there is information out there about antibiotics used in beef, poultry ,etc and a possible connection to antibiotic resistance, I personally think it is far more than "possible" but anyone reading this thread can do research and come to their own conclusions.

In short, my words above are my opinion and not medical advice. However, I would suggest asking ones doctor about it as well as doing further research into the causes of antibiotic resistance.

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bostondan
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by bostondan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:12 pm

Jackson12 wrote: Thanks. Also, there is information out there about antibiotics used in beef, poultry ,etc and a possible connection to antibiotic resistance, I personally think it is far more than "possible" but anyone reading this thread can do research and come to their own conclusions.

In short, my words above are my opinion and not medical advice. However, I would suggest asking ones doctor about it as well as doing further research into the causes of antibiotic resistance.


It doesn't seem too controversial that antibiotics used in food animals leads to antibiotic resistance and that it can spread to humans: https://www.cdc.gov/narms/faq.html. There are some good review articles that discuss the available evidence, including this one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3234384/

I think it's a no-brainer that we should find ways to avoid antibiotic use in animals if possible. Antibiotic resistance is a big issue and we see it in the hospital all the time.

However, it's rarely related to food animals getting antibiotics, but it's not hard to imagine some isolated cases of certain organisms being related. The review article above points to several examples. It's not going to cause the apocalypse and we'll be fine in the long-term, but it's a frustrating problem that will cause real problems for a significant number of patients for the foreseeable future.

That being said, personally I wouldn't go crazy avoiding meat with antibiotics due to health concerns, but only to show financial support for those places that use alternative methods if they are as effective. There is very little risk to an individual if you use good hand hygiene and cook your meat appropriately. It's reasonable to avoid it if possible, but just don't become the person that won't eat at your friends house because you realized the meat may possible have had antibiotics (though you're welcome to do that if you want - this is just my opinion for living a happier and almost certainly still healthy life).
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.” - Elie Wiesel

Michread
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Michread » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 am

Rachel Carson showed us the way

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mF2iS5vIamg

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dm200
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by dm200 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:40 am

People are always looking for a magic bullet, when the reality is that scientific research confirms over-and-over-and-over again that it isn't that complex. It's a lifestyle, not a magic product or diet or exercise program. Eat whole unprocessed foods and move more; easy to understand, hard to live.


Yes!

That "magic bullet" (my opinion and conclusion) is often expensive and following some, highly compensated, celebrity. (Again my opinion and observation), Those "celebrities" who pitch these expensive programs are (and have been) failures at weight loss. They keep failing, gaining back weight, then pitch the same program again and again where they keep gaining weight back.

The more they fail, the more money they make???

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by TylerDavis » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:59 am

misterno wrote:I hate Hawaii because I don't like to swim with sharks

I love organic fruits and vegetables because at the least you are avoiding chemical sprays, pesticides and all other artificial stuff related

Organic produce taste much better and not necessarily expensive. Organic brown rice is $1.50/lb, nonorganic not less than $1/lbs

I wish I can catch an organic product where I can get the lab analysis which shows pesticides or chemicals so that I can sue the company and make millions


For those of you who choose organic food because it doesn't contain pesticides or chemicals, should do some more research.

spinosad
pyrethrin
azadirachtin
chlorine
Peracetic acid
Potassium bicarbonate
Lignin sulfonate
Magnesium sulfate
Calcium hypochlorite
Copper sulfate

Are all approved and used in organic crop production. There is a whole nother list approved for livestock production.
I think organic started out as a noble idea, but it's since been taken over by large corporate-owned farms who see it as a marketing label that yields 2x the profit.

There are small-scale and local growing methods that result in healthier food, water resources, and environment, but it doesn't involve broadscale industrial monocrop "organic" farming, and paying an extra 2 bucks at Whole Foods for a bunch of bananas is not going to get us there.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/rules-regulati ... ional-list

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shot ... n-oxymoron

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Barefootgirl » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:31 pm

I've read that arsenic accumulates more often in the hull rather than the kernel, which I *assume* explains thee higher levels of arsenic in brown rice rather than white rice.

Accordingly I wonder therefore about rice bran, touted as a rich source of B vitamins and antioxidants (I believe).
How many retired people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Only one, but he takes all day.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Barefootgirl » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:35 pm

FWIW, I follow this org's guidelines for healthier brands of dairy, eggs, tofu, etc.:

I am personally familiar with some of the suppliers and can vouch for the ratings, again, to each his own.

https://www.cornucopia.org/dairysurvey/index.html
How many retired people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Only one, but he takes all day.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Wade Garrett » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:43 pm

Raybo wrote:Don't want to eat organic food? Think it's a waste of money? No reason to worry about chemicals put on/in food. OK, fine.
I don't want a $5,000 watch. I want to eat organic food. I don't want a $50,000 car, I want to ride my bicycle 1,000 miles through the mountains.
I long ago gave up being part of the mainstream thinking.
:thumbsup

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by misterno » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:57 pm

TylerDavis wrote:
misterno wrote:I hate Hawaii because I don't like to swim with sharks

I love organic fruits and vegetables because at the least you are avoiding chemical sprays, pesticides and all other artificial stuff related

Organic produce taste much better and not necessarily expensive. Organic brown rice is $1.50/lb, nonorganic not less than $1/lbs

I wish I can catch an organic product where I can get the lab analysis which shows pesticides or chemicals so that I can sue the company and make millions
For those of you who choose organic food because it doesn't contain pesticides or chemicals, should do some more research.

spinosad
pyrethrin
azadirachtin
chlorine
Peracetic acid
Potassium bicarbonate
Lignin sulfonate
Magnesium sulfate
Calcium hypochlorite
Copper sulfate

Are all approved and used in organic crop production. There is a whole nother list approved for livestock production.
I think organic started out as a noble idea, but it's since been taken over by large corporate-owned farms who see it as a marketing label that yields 2x the profit.

There are small-scale and local growing methods that result in healthier food, water resources, and environment, but it doesn't involve broadscale industrial monocrop "organic" farming, and paying an extra 2 bucks at Whole Foods for a bunch of bananas is not going to get us there.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/rules-regulati ... ional-list

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shot ... n-oxymoron
I understood all you said

but at the end, does organic produce less chemical traits than conventional?

Yes

See my point?

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by dm200 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:03 pm


Teague
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by Teague » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:43 am

misterno wrote:
I understood all you said

but at the end, does organic produce less chemical traits than conventional?

Yes

See my point?
What's a "chemical trait?"
Semper Augustus

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dm200
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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by dm200 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:46 am

Teague wrote:
misterno wrote: I understood all you said
but at the end, does organic produce less chemical traits than conventional?
Yes
See my point?
What's a "chemical trait?"
I do not understand what this means either.

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Re: Suspicious organic products

Post by NibbanaBanana » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:09 pm

When it comes to nutrition, you really have to ask yourself if someone has a vested interest in what's written on a website. Google "Best Diet for ...." and you will get umpteen hits, essentially all of which are somebody's opinion who also happens to be trying to make money off that opinion. The only information worth anything is what's in peer review scientific journals. That information is presented, summarized, and referenced on the nonprofit website nutritionfacts.org. Good luck.

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