Used German Luxury vs New Japanese

[Alexa9]

A loaded Camry or Accord is in the 30k range. A 3 year old Mercedes E Class or BMW 5 series with less than 50k is in the same range. Why would you pick one or the other? The big one for me is maintenance costs on the German cars. Is the luxury car that much better of a driving experience? Certainly a new luxury vehicle is out of the question for me in the $50k range but they depreciate quickly making them relatively affordable lightly used. Certainly Lexus has a combination of luxury and Japanese reliability, although I am not sold on their styling.

[student]

Unless your job "requires" a luxury car to project the kind of image that your clients expect, I would pick new cars that cost $30,000.

[HMan768]

I have bought 2 used BMWs and I can't imagine doing anything different. You will love the bummer.

[Alexa9]

Unless your job "requires" a luxury car to project the kind of image that your clients expect, I would pick new cars that cost $30,000.

Actually I just want to drive around with my nose in the air when I see those Japanese/American cars.
But seriously, I think the interiors and sound systems on German cars are nicer and I want to try at least one in my life.
German cars used to be the best. Now it seems they just cost the most and have complicated electronics. I think the Japanese have surpassed them in quality.

[Sconie]

The reliability of a Japanese vehicle (i.e., Toyota or Honda----not necessarily Nissan) is far superior to that of either a Benz or a BMW. Add 50K miles onto the German car and to me---in spades----it indicates, buy Japanese.

[KyleAAA]

Oh yeah, the driving experience is a lot better. Interior will be much nicer in the Mercedes but probably a wash with the BMW (BMW interiors tend to feel like they were designed by somebody who's never sat in a car). Reliability and maintenance costs will of course be much worse with a used German luxury car. But this is an odd comparison because a Camry is probably the poorest-driving car you could buy for $30k. I'd at least consider a Mazda6 or used Acura in that class.

[wander]

I will pick Japanese cars.

[EddieGee]

The maintenance/repair costs on a used German luxury vehicle will eat you alive; from an economic standpoint the new Japanese car is the clear choice. OTOH if you want the prestige / fun /whatever of a BMW or Mercedes then go for it... just be aware that it will cost you.

[livesoft]

A used Lexus is in the same range. And no maintenance nor repair costs to worry about. Besides, styling doesn't matter.

[bottlecap]

I'd go Japanese hands down, but if the "driving experience" is worth expensive maintenance to you, then who am I to say?

I agree with you on the Lexus styling, though.

I use my vehicle to get to work and haul stuff. Not very sexy stuff and I don't want it in the shop.

JT

[Case59]

I owned several BMW's. There's lots to like with the styling and the drive experience, but maintenance issues drove me away. Their engines have gotten so hi-tech that they need constant tinkering (especially above 50k miles, i.e., after the warranty runs out), always at $2k to $4k a pop. A simple brake flush costs like $2k. Anyway, I got sick of it and switched to Lexus and couldn't be happier.

[gkaplan]

My brother and his wife just bought a Toyota Avalon to replace their Toyota Camry, which they're giving to my niece and her husband, who needed a car to replace the one that died. My brother and his wife said they decided on the Avalon because of its roominess and the numerous safety features.

German cars have a bad reputation as far as reliability, so I think the new Japanese car is a far better choice than the used German luxury car.

[adamthesmythe]

I once sat in a BMW with leather upholstery that felt just like vinyl. I drove it- and it was very nice- but it was not nice enough. So I bought a Toyota.

So sit in a luxury car, drive it, and decide whether the worse reliability and the cost of maintenance is acceptable in view of what you get.

If a few unexpected days in the shop and an unexpected few thousand dollar bill would not be a problem- then, enjoy.

[Toons]

Mercedes

[Alexa9]

Mercedes

Okay Mr. Honda CR-V! You need to elaborate.

[hoops777]

The German car will handle better,have better brakes and a nicer interior.
The Japanese car will be much cheaper to own and perfectly fine for most people.
We have a BMW and a Prius
So whatever is more important to you.

[sambb]

ive owned everything - exotics, and hondas, and evertyhing in between.
Ifyou have the means, I would buy a BMW 2 years out, off lease, and perhaps CPO.
Enjoy it. I fyou have to go back to japanese later, then do it. But try the BMW. Its fun! (or mercedes)

[TRC]

Former BMW owner. I now drive an Acura. Haven't visited a dealership since I bought it 3 years ago.

[zaboomafoozarg]

My brother and his wife just bought a Toyota Avalon to replace their Toyota Camry, which they're giving to my niece and her husband, who needed a car to replace the one that died. My brother and his wife said they decided on the Avalon because of its roominess and the numerous safety features.

German cars have a bad reputation as far as reliability, so I think the new Japanese car is a far better choice than the used German luxury car.

The Avalon is very nice. I rented one for a couple weeks and really wished I could keep it. Much nicer than my Fit, but a more than a tad too pricey.

[sadie wess]

I owned several BMW's. There's lots to like with the styling and the drive experience, but maintenance issues drove me away. Their engines have gotten so hi-tech that they need constant tinkering (especially above 50k miles, i.e., after the warranty runs out), always at $2k to $4k a pop. A simple brake flush costs like $2k. Anyway, I got sick of it and switched to Lexus and couldn't be happier.

+1

[Watty]

Is the luxury car that much better of a driving experience?

The driving experience has two parts, performance and comfort.

When stuck in traffic, which is most the time in Atlanta, I have been known to rev the engine of my Honda Fit when I am at a stop light next to an expensive sports car.

Be careful about paying a lot for a performance car if you will rarely get to take advantage of that.

Certainly a new luxury vehicle is out of the question for me in the $50k range but they depreciate quickly making them relatively affordable lightly used.

They keep depreciating too in addition to the maintenance cost. In severn year the ten year old German car likely be problematic and likely not worth a lot. In seven years the new Japanese car be just getting past its prime andy you stand a very good chance of going that long with minimal non-routine maintenance.

[Will do good]

ive owned everything - exotics, and hondas, and evertyhing in between.
Ifyou have the means, I would buy a BMW 2 years out, off lease, and perhaps CPO.
Enjoy it. I fyou have to go back to japanese later, then do it. But try the BMW. Its fun! (or mercedes)

+1 on the BMW. Yes it is expensive but my service cost wasn't too bad at all and the drive is very very, very tight.

[tdhg566]

A few years ago when my wife had knee problems, we bought a used RX350 at CarMax because it fit her and avoided stress on the knee. First "upscale" car I had ever owned. Took me some time to wrap my head around it. It was two years old. 12,000 miles. Paid only a bit more than you're looking to pay for the new Toyota. Specifically did NOT get the navigation system, and only the absolute necessary power stuff (rear hatch, seats, etc). Would have bought power mirrors if I could have gotten them without a bunch of other stuff. Bought an extended warranty from a Lexus dealer in Louisiana who was selling them online (half the price of the local dealer). We've had zero issues with the car. When further knee deterioration required me to get rid of my truck (because the few times she rode as a passenger were too hard on her), it didn't take me long to just buy another RX350. Another half price extended warranty by mail. In retrospect, these were the best car decisions I've ever made. Absolutely no regrets. I'll never buy another brand again. Lexus is considered a value brand, not one of the top three (BMW, Mercedes, Audi). That fits me. Will always buy used, but frankly, at my age, these may be the last cars I'll ever buy. I change the oil and all filters every 7500 miles, and rotate and align the tires every oil change. Bought the Firestone lifetime alignment so there's no ongoing cost.

[sunny_socal]

I vote for the German car! Why? Because it's worth it just to scratch the itch. They drive great! You can always sell about a year later without losing too much $$. (The original owner took the biggest depreciation hit.) The Camry is quite possibly the most boring vehicle on the road. (Scratch that, it's the Avalon.) (oh never mind, it's the Prius!)

I've already been through my BMW stage and know all about the maintenance. I don't think I could own another BMW again.

[daveydoo]

This is another iteration of the patented BH "Should I marry the good-looking one or the smart one?" thread.

You can do a little reading and make lists of pros and cons, or you can force us to do it for you. The only thing that matters -- and the only thing we don't know -- is how you prioritize and weight the individual variables. And know that not all German cars are sporty or fun to drive and not all Japanese cars are reliable. For example, I really dislike the driving feel in post-2011 BMWs (when they jettisoned hydraulic steering) and love driving our new Mazda. (I also refuse to part with my increasingly high-maintenance but sharp-handling 2011 335d.)

I suggest Car & Driver rankings for driver experience, tempered with CR ratings for reliability. I almost always agree with the former (I always check after I rent a car that I either like or hate), and my "n" is too small vis-a-vis reliability for any given model so I have to take that on faith. A reliable car you don't like -- that's a problem; it just keeps lingering like a bad pet.

So, if you're lucky and shop around, the smart one is still pretty good-looking.

[German Expat]

The Mercedes or BMW will be much more expensive to own. If you buy a brand new Toyota or Honda you can drive it 3-5 years longer then the 3 year old BMW and it will cost you a lot less in maintenance, tires etc. etc.
The German cars will be more fun to drive but at the same time it depends a lot on your driving style and the type of roads you drive. Cruising down the interstate or bumper to bumper traffic will not give you much of a difference.

What it comes down to in my opinion is how much of your your yearly income is the 30k? If you make enough and are saving already a lot then buy the German car and scratch the itch. On the used car the loss when reselling will not be that high. I am also in the camp with some others here and find the Camry extremely boring. If buying new I would invest into safety features.

When I was younger I always wanted a Porsche but could never financially justify it. While we are doing much better now I have other priorities and would rather retire 1 year earlier.

Disclaimer: we drive 2 BMW's (5 and 3 series)

[VAslim16]

I'll make this very simple. Go Japanese.

[snackdog]

You have the choices all backwards. When buying German, stay with new cars because they are a nightmare to keep running after 2-3 years. All your time will be spent in service centers.if you want one, lease a new one for 24 months. Read leasehackr to find the best deal.

When buying Japanese, it is safe to buy used and skip the extended warranty. You can get a 2010 LS600 or 2012 ls460 for your budget and drive it another 100k miles. Smooth, quiet, powerful and packed with technology.

[midareff]

A used Lexus is in the same range. And no maintenance nor repair costs to worry about. Besides, styling doesn't matter.

Beauty is, or is not, in the eye of the beholder. Benz driver here and have rented Camry's, Maximas and Accords for trips in the Carolina's. Best part was turning them in and not having to drive them again.

[gatorking]

A used Lexus is in the same range. And no maintenance nor repair costs to worry about. Besides, styling doesn't matter.

Beauty is, or is not, in the eye of the beholder. Benz driver here and have rented Camry's, Maximas and Accords for trips in the Carolina's. Best part was turning them in and not having to drive them again.

Can't see much of the beauty when sitting in the car.

[Frisco Kid]

Depends on usage, miles driven per year,etc.

If we are talking a daily driver primary vehicle I would not own a German car out of warranty. A CPO German car as a second car or weekend driver could be a possibility given say 3 to 5k yearly usage. Time based maintenance would still be an added cost here but tire/brake work would be at extended intervals. Thinking along the lines of an M series BMW or Porsche 911 as a second car................

[bigred77]

I bought 2 out-of-warranty BMWs and have had them for 4 and 5 years respectively. Will likely replace both of those with 2 CPO BMWs in a couple of years (CPO just because my plan is to buy them around 3 years old with 30k miles and keep them for 8-10 years).

If you have an independent mechanic who specializes in German cars you will not "get killed" in maintenance and repair costs. It's just the cost of the dealership service centers. Yes, they probably cost more than a Toyota or Honda to service, but it's not as dramatic as people make it out to be.

I've probably averaged $500 per vehicle, per year in all in maintenance/repair costs (oil changes, new tires, new batteries, actuators, minor engine maintenance, etc.)

I will now go knock on all the wood I can find

[Toons]

Mercedes

Okay Mr. Honda CR-V! You need to elaborate.

Mercedes Sprinter owner also
A loyal Honda fan,,,no doubt.
Having said that ,,,,The Mercedes build quality is "different".

[hmw]

We do both.

We bought a new 2012 Subaru Outback. No mechanical problems until recently. The sunroof is stuck and will cost about 1k to fix.

We bought a used 2007 Mercedes C class in 2009. It was my daily commute for 8 years. Low mileage car. No signicant repair bill other than a bad auto tensioner. I use an independent local mechanic who specializes in expensive German cars. This car was totaled in a recent accident. For replacement, we test drove used Lexus RX and MB-M class. In the end, my wife decided to go with a MB because of much nicer interior. I am prepared to pay for higher maintenance and repair cost of a MB. But I figure that I am already being frugal for not buying a brand new MB.

[Dilbydog]

I owned several BMW's. There's lots to like with the styling and the drive experience, but maintenance issues drove me away. Their engines have gotten so hi-tech that they need constant tinkering (especially above 50k miles, i.e., after the warranty runs out), always at $2k to $4k a pop. A simple brake flush costs like $2k. Anyway, I got sick of it and switched to Lexus and couldn't be happier.

Its things like this that drive me crazy. Yes, German luxury will cost you more in maintenance than a Camry or other basic auto. I currently have a 2010 335i, and 2016 X5. Neither have been problems, or required anything beyond the standard maintenance. Granted the standard maintenance is probably more than taking your Camry to Jiffy Lube. But $2K for a brake fluid flush is either a gross exaggeration or a rip off. I've had this specific service completed 3 times on my 335, twice by the dealer and once self performed. In fact, my dealer just completed a flush in January for $145.00. I would encourage you to look into actual prices for standard work, either at the dealer or a well known independent shop that focuses on German autos.

[urumbu]

Pre owned Lexus holds it value very well.
IMO far better than BMW/Mercedes, when i was in the market a few years ago

Not sure if you would be able to find a 50k lexus for 30k

[2tall4economy]

I see this as two questions:

First:
Are German (or American or English (really German/Indian) for that matter) luxury cars objectively better than Japanese? I think car magazines and the automotive cognoscenti would generally agree that - by and large, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes (and Cadillac) are better than Infinity, Lexus, and Acura (and Jaguar, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, Lincoln and Chrysler).

Are there specific Japanese models which are better in their segment? On a few occasions / publications, yes. But that is not the norm.

Second:
Does it make financial sense to own a German luxury (or even *any* luxury) car vs a basic transportation appliance such as a Chevy or a Honda? Not rationally, no.

If you want it, make sure you can afford it and get it. Don't kid yourself into thinking it's a wise financial decision. This is what I do.

[JCrack]

You have the choices all backwards. When buying German, stay with new cars because they are a nightmare to keep running after 2-3 years. All your time will be spent in service centers.if you want one, lease a new one for 24 months. Read leasehackr to find the best deal.

When buying Japanese, it is safe to buy used and skip the extended warranty. You can get a 2010 LS600 or 2012 ls460 for your budget and drive it another 100k miles. Smooth, quiet, powerful and packed with technology.

The thing with buying used Japanese though is you're going to have to go back (in most cases) 5+ years to see any sort of meaningful divergence from the new car list price. At least that's been my experience. Within 1-3 years of the current model? Forget about it.

[urumbu]

The thing with buying used Japanese though is you're going to have to go back (in most cases) 5+ years to see any sort of meaningful divergence from the new car list price. At least that's been my experience. Within 1-3 years of the current model? Forget about it.

Exactly ... Lexus doesnt drop in value at all.
Infiniti drops a lot ( even to sell them as new ) , then Acura & Then Lexus.

[hoops777]

I actually like my Prius better than our BMW.It is more comfortable sitting up higher and easier to get in and out of for my 65 year old body.The BMW handles much better but the Prius is actually quicker from a standstill.For example at a red light if want to get out fast to change lanes.I had never thought about that before until I heard a race car driver on a talk show say it.

[likegarden]

I grew up in Germany. I am an engineer. I never understood why 'driving experience' is so important on the roads we have here : 65 mph limit here, roads are mostly straight and wide. BMW comes from Bavaria, headquarters in Muenchen, and there are the Alps with their roads, and some expressways have no speed limits. In the Alps you might need a BMW with that driving experience, but not here.

[stoptothink]

I grew up in Germany. I am an engineer. I never understood why 'driving experience' is so important on the roads we have here : 65 mph limit here, roads are mostly straight and wide. BMW comes from Bavaria, headquarters in Muenchen, and there are the Alps with their roads, and some expressways have no speed limits. In the Alps you might need a BMW with that driving experience, but not here.

Same exact mindset with most SUV and truck buyers; you are paying for capabilities which you will likely never use. Like most consumer decisions, buying a car is primarily emotional, there is very little logic to it. I love high-performance vehicles like most red-blooded Americans, but it is an extremely rare event when a vehicle's handling or speed capabilities make an iota of difference in my commuting experience. In the event that it will (maybe a long road trip with some fun open roads, with just the wife and I), I have no problem renting something that will improve the experience; the other 99.9999% of the time I am driving, a car is an appliance.

Used German vs. new Japanese, new Japanese for me every single time. We did recently buy a new German, but only because new VW Jettas right now are a few thousand cheaper than anything else which meets our needs.

[midareff]

A used Lexus is in the same range. And no maintenance nor repair costs to worry about. Besides, styling doesn't matter.

Beauty is, or is not, in the eye of the beholder. Benz driver here and have rented Camry's, Maximas and Accords for trips in the Carolina's. Best part was turning them in and not having to drive them again.

Can't see much of the beauty when sitting in the car.

Sure you can, just look around at the interior materials, fit and finish.

[emoore]

It's all personal preference. I would always go used German over new Japanese but that's just my view. Get whatever you like and can afford.

[tractorguy]

Luxury cars of any make are sold as jewelry. This is what a couple of regional sales managers for Jaguar have told me and there TV adds support this statement. Except for a few people who get their enjoyment from squeezing every penny, most of us need to make an irrational purchase sometimes. The German luxury cars and the Japanese luxury cars by and large are aiming at different market preferences. Deciding which one to buy is a personal decision. You may prefer rubies and I prefer diamonds but there is no point in arguing about it.

I suggest that you drive your options and decide if you have a strong preference. Then, look at the total cost of ownership data that is at Edmunds or somewhere else. If you are considering an older car, also look at the enthusiast websites for that manufacturer as some engine/body/transmission combinations are much less reliable than others. Consumer reports is also a a good place for data. Then, make your decision based on what is important to you.

My experience, based on owning BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Chevrolet, and Nissan is that any car will be OK for 10 years or 100K miles. German cars will cost more for maintenance and repair, even with an independent mechanic just because parts are significantly higher. Similarly Lexus costs more than Toyota for the same reason. Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes also cost more to run than mid market cars because they take premium fuel.

I currently drive an 07 BMW 328i which my spouse does not like. She preferred her Camry which we wore out at 150K miles. She traded the Camry for a Mercedes ML350, not because of the luxury label, but because it can Tow our camper and its not a pickup truck.

[rralex1]

I have bought 2 used BMWs and I can't imagine doing anything different. You will love the bummer.

I read this twice carefully, and had to laugh. We have one of each actually. Mine is the older Avalon.. The wife has the other. Both are great cars. For a driving experience and an answer to "Have you really Driven it?" the BMW (Bimmer) wins hands down. For the "Wow I haven't taken the car in for any repairs for so long" - the Toyota wins..hands down.

[Swansea]

I owned several BMW's. There's lots to like with the styling and the drive experience, but maintenance issues drove me away. Their engines have gotten so hi-tech that they need constant tinkering (especially above 50k miles, i.e., after the warranty runs out), always at $2k to $4k a pop. A simple brake flush costs like $2k. Anyway, I got sick of it and switched to Lexus and couldn't be happier.

Your mechanic is high priced. Dealer brake flush on my BMW is 170 at the Stealership and 90 at an independent.

[drat69]

We drive Acura TL 2006 and Mercedes SUV 2002. Maintenance on Merc would have cost me almost as much as another car (if I wasn't doing my own repairs). Acura's reliability is unbelievable except for the infamous rust issue.

German cars now have electric power steering and no longer give you the driving experience that they used to. I drove a new E Class as a loaner and very disappointed. Main difference from Japanese vehicles is that rear wheel driving is much better feeling than front wheel drive. If Japanese manufactured rear wheel drive cars, there would be no reason to recommend German cars.

[hoops777]

Case59.... don't know where you live but you were getting taken to the cleaners.

[noupdjm]

I bought a used Acura TL (2008; 20,000 miles) for $20k; then a used Acura RL (2007; 40,000 miles) for $17k. Both approx. 4 years ago. I would do either again in a heartbeat. Two of the best purchases I have ever made, both running beautifully, and both reek of quality build. No issues with either.