What to ask puppy breeder?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Locked
Topic Author
TRC
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:38 pm

What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by TRC »

Hello Bogleheads,

EDIT - I'm in the market for a small Hypo-Allergenic dog. Unfortunately these don't exist at my local animal adoption or animal rescue centers. I've searched extensively throughout New England.

My DW and I will be visiting a Cavapoo Puppy Breeder tomorrow in hopes of finding a new addition for our family. These are expensive dogs and a big decision for our family to make sure it's a right fit. What questions should we ask to verify the dog's health and well being? At this point, we are set on this type of breed, so no need to suggest other breeds, rescuing a dog, etc.

Thanks,
TRC
Last edited by TRC on Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nyc10036
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:29 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by Nyc10036 »

This post makes me very sad.
Millions of dogs die in shelters every year and yet people breed more.
pochax
Posts: 1373
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:40 am

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by pochax »

TRC wrote:Hello Bogleheads,

My DW and I will be visiting a Cavapoo Puppy Breeder tomorrow in hopes of finding a new addition for our family. These are expensive dogs and a big decision for our family to make sure it's a right fit. What questions should we ask to verify the dog's health and well being? At this point, we are set on this type of breed, so no need to suggest other breeds, rescuing a dog, etc.

Thanks,
TRC
do you mean in addition to:
birthdate
health records (dates of vaccinations, de-wormers, etc.)
known family history of health problems in parent dogs
any health guarantees, satisfaction/return policy (in case of excessive disturbing behavior, etc.)
what kind and what amount of food the puppy as been eating

we just went through this 2 weeks ago....i think that's all we found helpful.
pshonore
Posts: 6992
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:21 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by pshonore »

I'm guessing this is a Cavalier/Poodle cross? The problem with "designer" dogs is you're never sure what you're going to get. How about just a plain old Cavelier OR Poodle? Most AKC breeds have what I will call Health Registries. These show common health problems (inherited or otherwise) that can occur and which dogs have been tested to determine if they are healthy and should be used for breeding stock. Hip dysplasia would be an example. Canine Retinal Atrophy, thyroid disorders are a couple of others and there are tons more. No guarantees but at least a breeder can do some screening and testing.. I don't know of any Health Registries for designer dogs but they may exist. You may want to check at the Canine Health Foundation.

http://www.akcchf.org

And of course get a complete of all vet care to data (shots, etc)
User avatar
knpstr
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by knpstr »

Nyc10036 wrote:This post makes me very sad.
Millions of dogs die in shelters every year and yet people breed more.
Yup and people will continue to breed their dogs for puppies. They need a home too.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Angelus359
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:56 am

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by Angelus359 »

I'd ask the breeder where is the nearest shelter.
Devops/Systems Engineer
Whatyear?
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:05 pm
Location: Massachusetts

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by Whatyear? »

Ask the breeder if, for any reason you are not able to keep the puppy, will he/she take the puppy back (and will they put it in writing)? You will want to know they truly care about the puppy's well-being. Also ask to see/meet the dog parents if they are on-site.
Angelus359
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:56 am

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by Angelus359 »

knpstr wrote:
Nyc10036 wrote:This post makes me very sad.
Millions of dogs die in shelters every year and yet people breed more.
Yup and people will continue to breed their dogs for puppies. They need a home too.
Creating a market demand by buying bred dogs makes them breed more. If people stopped buying dogs from breeders, people would stop breeding them.
Devops/Systems Engineer
Topic Author
TRC
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:38 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by TRC »

Angelus359 wrote:
knpstr wrote:
Nyc10036 wrote:This post makes me very sad.
Millions of dogs die in shelters every year and yet people breed more.
Yup and people will continue to breed their dogs for puppies. They need a home too.
Creating a market demand by buying bred dogs makes them breed more. If people stopped buying dogs from breeders, people would stop breeding them.
Jees, please see the last sentence of my post. Let's keep this on track people.
Topic Author
TRC
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:38 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by TRC »

pochax wrote:
TRC wrote:Hello Bogleheads,

My DW and I will be visiting a Cavapoo Puppy Breeder tomorrow in hopes of finding a new addition for our family. These are expensive dogs and a big decision for our family to make sure it's a right fit. What questions should we ask to verify the dog's health and well being? At this point, we are set on this type of breed, so no need to suggest other breeds, rescuing a dog, etc.

Thanks,
TRC
do you mean in addition to:
birthdate
health records (dates of vaccinations, de-wormers, etc.)
known family history of health problems in parent dogs
any health guarantees, satisfaction/return policy (in case of excessive disturbing behavior, etc.)
what kind and what amount of food the puppy as been eating

we just went through this 2 weeks ago....i think that's all we found helpful.
Thank you for the helpful response and keeping the post on track.
Elena
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:42 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by Elena »

TRC wrote:Hello Bogleheads,

My DW and I will be visiting a Cavapoo Puppy Breeder tomorrow in hopes of finding a new addition for our family. These are expensive dogs and a big decision for our family to make sure it's a right fit. What questions should we ask to verify the dog's health and well being? At this point, we are set on this type of breed, so no need to suggest other breeds, rescuing a dog, etc.

Thanks,
TRC
Dear TRC,
After buying expensive puppies from breeders for years, three years ago I decided to search for a dog through Petango.com (public shelters and rescue orgs. dump their data to that search engine daily; one can search under weight, age, etc.). I looked daily for two months, and finally three young dogs showed up at a municipal kill shelter. I showed up immediately, did all the behavioral tests (shares food, shares toys, no biting, etc.), and adopted my apparently almost purebread dog for $20. The journey is interesting as a dog owner: you learn things of the dog's past by observing it. I soon found out my dog was not housetrained (lots of cleaning and unexpected training), and did not know any commands (more training). It took some 2 mo. to bond and learn, and now Frida runs the show. The $20 included spaying, microchipping & vaccines. I went in for a blind mutt, but if you research carefully you can end up with the best dog ever:
http://xenaandluna.com/may-the-fur-be-with-you-frida/
Summary: After buying puppies from breeders for some 35 yrs., I will always adopt. The experience is worth it.
User avatar
knpstr
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by knpstr »

Angelus359 wrote:Creating a market demand by buying bred dogs makes them breed more. If people stopped buying dogs from breeders, people would stop breeding them.
Never going to happen.
Some people will always want a specific breed and a puppy. It isn't nefarious.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
PFInterest
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:25 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by PFInterest »

nothing
go to a shelter
you should reconsider this
stats99
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by stats99 »

Check if you can get some sort of monetary guarantee or return policy in the event the puppy has serious medical issues, particularly in the first 6 months to a year.
Topic Author
TRC
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:38 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by TRC »

knpstr wrote:
Angelus359 wrote:Creating a market demand by buying bred dogs makes them breed more. If people stopped buying dogs from breeders, people would stop breeding them.
Never going to happen.
Some people will always want a specific breed and a puppy. It isn't nefarious.
Especially when one is in need of a small / hypo allergenic dog. That's why we're targeting a specific breed. I have crazy allergies to 99% of the dogs out there. After many visits with different types of hypo-allergenic dogs, I've found that the cavapoo is the only breed I can tolerate. Unfortunately these are not a common breed out there....especially at shelters. The haters on this forum assume things way too quickly.
barnaclebob
Posts: 4340
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by barnaclebob »

ask to tour all facilites where dogs are kept. That should tell you what you need to know.

To be honest a cavapoo sounds like any other generic yapper dog, I don't see the need for a designer breed here.
Last edited by barnaclebob on Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
fourwheelcycle
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 5:55 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by fourwheelcycle »

pshonore wrote: Most AKC breeds have what I will call Health Registries. These show common health problems (inherited or otherwise) that can occur and which dogs have been tested to determine if they are healthy and should be used for breeding stock. Hip dysplasia would be an example. Canine Retinal Atrophy, thyroid disorders are a couple of others and there are tons more. No guarantees but at least a breeder can do some screening and testing.. I don't know of any Health Registries for designer dogs but they may exist. You may want to check at the Canine Health Foundation.

http://www.akcchf.org

And of course get a complete of all vet care to data (shots, etc)
Cavaliers can suffer from extremely painful Syringomyelia and/or Primary Secretory Otitis Media . I don't think either of these conditions can be screened for before you buy a puppy. I imagine Cavapoos could be at risk also. We had friends who had an Old English Sheepdog that had very serious hip dysplasia. The breeder took it back and provided a replacement puppy, but you can imagine (!) the pain of knowing the puppy you have raised for six months or a year is suffering and will have to be euthanized.
User avatar
cheese_breath
Posts: 10090
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:08 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by cheese_breath »

I'd suggest you postpone your decision until you have a chance to talk to more people knowledgeable about with the breed. Not all 'breeders' are as knowledgeable as others, nor as honest. Some are nothing more than amateurs or small scale puppy mills. When I had St. Benards I belonged to the St. Bernard Club of Greater Detroit and the St. Bernard CLub of America. Lots of opportunities to talk to many knowledgeable people there. I'm guessing there are probably Cavapoo clubs too if you look hard enough.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
User avatar
IFRider
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:40 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by IFRider »

TRC wrote:hypo allergenic dog....The haters on this forum assume things way too quickly.
I've heard of hypoallergenic hand lotion and earrings but dogs? Really?

What happens when the dog is out for a walk and various allergy producing critters attach themselves to its fur?

Which leads to the second part...

The only haters here are those that hate to see animals, hypoallergenic and otherwise, sitting in
cages waiting to be euthanized.
LawyersGunsAndMoney
Posts: 148
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:00 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by LawyersGunsAndMoney »

One sign of a good breeder is that he will be interviewing you as much as you are him.

Definitely get a feel for their setup, make sure dogs are being cared for.

Definitely meet the dog's parent(s) to get a sense of look and temperament you can expect. Ideally (though not a deal-breaker) breeder will only have the mother for you to meet, because he's contracted out a dog for stud. What would be a deal-breaker is if breeder owns one male and multiple female dogs and is just cranking out puppies.

Ask about paperwork/contract. The best breeders will ask you to sign a contract stating that if you cannot provide necessary care for the dog, or are forced to give it up they have the right to reclaim. Also look for a contractual stipulation that you must have the dog spayed/neutered within a certain period of time and that you are getting the dog as a pet, and not for breeding on your own.

And lastly, ask about at what age they recommend taking the puppy home. Anything earlier than 8 weeks, run for the hills, this is a sure sign of a bad breeder (separating them from mother/litter before 8 weeks dramatically increases chances for big behavioral problems and is indicative of breeders that are just cranking out puppies for the $).
Nick True
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:08 am
Location: TN
Contact:

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by Nick True »

TRC wrote:
knpstr wrote:
Angelus359 wrote:Creating a market demand by buying bred dogs makes them breed more. If people stopped buying dogs from breeders, people would stop breeding them.
Never going to happen.
Some people will always want a specific breed and a puppy. It isn't nefarious.
Especially when one is in need of a small / hypo allergenic dog. That's why we're targeting a specific breed. I have crazy allergies to 99% of the dogs out there. After many visits with different types of hypo-allergenic dogs, I've found that the cavapoo is the only breed I can tolerate. Unfortunately these are not a common breed out there....especially at shelters. The haters on this forum assume things way too quickly.

TRC, I'm sorry to see people on this forum giving you so much grief. I wish a moderator would step in, you clearly stated that you have a reason and are asking for specific help on a specific question. People ought to let you make your decision... There are good reasons politics are off limits on this forum, I wish things like judging a purchasing decision would be as well. Everyone is different and everyone has different convictions. Geeze people...

That being said.

My wife I bought a border collie/poodle mix last year and will be purchasing a frenchbulldog/boston terrier mix (frenchton) later this year. We too have hypo allergenic reasons. We also will be living full-time in an RV and traveling the country. Most public campgrounds and state-parks have rules against specific breeds (pits for example - which comprise the vast majority of shelter dogs in my part of the country). Not to mention we'll be living in <250 sq ft, so temperament, size, weight, shedding, health issues etc... are all very important and went into our decision. Lastly, my wife will be training both of our dogs to become therapy dogs... Again, specific needs.

Definitely ask everything that pochax said above.
We also looked at:
- How long have the owners been breeding those parents
- How many liters a year do they breed
- How many times has the momma dog birthed a liter (you don't want too terribly many, google about your breed)
- what environment are the puppies for the 8 - 12 weeks before you take him/her home
- How much time do the breeders get to spend individually with each puppy when they are born
- How long have the breeders been in business? Do they have a proven track record.

Essentially, we wanted to really make sure the environment itself is just how we would treat the puppies... Our dogs are part of the family and we want the breeder to treat them as such.

Best of luck, :sharebeer
haters gonna hater as T-swift would say.
User avatar
IFRider
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:40 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by IFRider »

Nick True wrote:Especially when one is in need of a small / hypo allergenic dog...haters gonna hater as T-swift would say.
There's no such thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoallergenic_dog_breed

He'll get the dog, sneeze a couple of times and off it goes to the shelter.
Nick True
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:08 am
Location: TN
Contact:

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by Nick True »

IFRider wrote:
Nick True wrote:Especially when one is in need of a small / hypo allergenic dog...haters gonna hater as T-swift would say.
There's no such thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoallergenic_dog_breed

He'll get the dog, sneeze a couple of times and off it goes to the shelter.

Your link says
The term hypoallergenic dog breed is commonly used to refer to a dog breed (or crossbreed) that is more compatible with allergic people than other breeds. However, prominent allergen researchers have claimed that there is no basis to the claims that certain dog breeds are hypoallergenic[1][2] and, while allergen levels vary among individual dogs, the breed is not a significant factor.[3]
But if you read further it also says
Scientific findings
Breeds that shed less are more likely to be hypoallergenic, since the dog's dander and saliva stick to the hair and are not released into the environment.[11] However, protein expression levels play a major role and amount of shedding alone does not determine degree of allergic reaction. "Even if you get a hairless dog, it's still going to produce the allergen," Dr. Wanda Phipatanakul, chair of the Indoor Allergen Committee for the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology is quoted in the newsmagazine U.S. News & World Report as saying.[12] How hypoallergenic a particular dog is for a particular person may vary with the individual dog and the individual person.[13]
If a person is allergic, they may be best able to tolerate a specific dog, possibly of one of the hypoallergenic breeds. Dr. Thomas A. Platts-Mills, head of the Asthma and Allergic Disease Center at the University of Virginia, explained that there are cases in which a specific dog (not breed) might be better tolerated by a specific person, for unknown reasons. "We think there really are differences in protein production between dogs that may help one patient and not another," Dr. Platts-Mills said.[13]
All dogs shed, and all dogs produce dander and saliva in some degree.[14] As noted above, the amount of the allergenic protein present on the dander and in saliva varies by breed. Also, the amount of the allergen can be reduced or eliminated in individual dogs by treatments such as bathing.[15][16] But for most breeds, when not regularly bathed, even a dog who sheds very little or has little dander can trigger a reaction in a sensitive person.[17]
So it seems like there is a connection between specific dogs and specific people. If somehow a person could visit a bunch of dogs, they could theoretically figure out which breed is better for them.

It then goes on to say
Size may be a factor in determining hypoallergenicity. It is possible that the total body surface area of the dog is more indicative of reduced production of allergens than its breed.[18]
Smaller dogs will also leave fewer environmental pollutants containing dog dander and dog allergens (reduced fecal matter, urine and saliva). Small hairless dogs may be less likely to cause allergic reactions "because it's so easy to bathe them and the dander falls off them."
So science seems to say that smaller dogs may be better than larger ones.

Lastly your link states
Researchers have shown that frequently bathing dogs reduces the amount of allergen related protein on the fur or hair of the dog and the amount of airborne allergen.[16] Bathing a dog at least twice a week will minimize or even eliminate the reaction of an allergic person to a dog.[15]
Frequent cleaning and vacuuming of the home, using air filters, restricting the dog to certain rooms, and adopting a small dog that can easily be given frequent baths are all recommended by the Humane Society of the United States to control allergens.[26] Scientific research has repeatedly shown that good cleaning practices in the home remove allergens from the environment.
All that to say if you
1) choose a dog that you have previous exposure to and you know is better with your allergies
2) get a smaller rather than larger dog
3) bathe them often (which is easier with a small dog)

science seems to say that there's a good chance your reactions will be lower.

Bottom line. I don't think you can just make the blanket statement that you made about "no such thing". Even your link seems to agree.
User avatar
IFRider
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:40 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by IFRider »

Nick True wrote:Bottom line. I don't think you can just make the blanket statement that you made about "no such thing". Even your link seems to agree.
You're correct. If I research many dog breeds to judge my reaction, bathe it frequently, and vacuum with special filters, I will have a hypoallergenic dog.

I don't get that level of commitment from this OP. That kind of work takes a little more love than he's showing.
mrc
Posts: 1473
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:39 am

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by mrc »

AKC papers and pedigree records are out (for what the AKC considers mutts), but having acquired many shelter dogs, and purebred dogs over the years (some much better than others), I recommend in no particular order:

Checking out the property. Neat and clean kennels are better than dirty ones. House dogs better than outbuilding dogs. There shouldn't be more than a pair or two of breeding parents. You should meet the parents (both if possible, but sometimes one or the other lives elsewhere).

You should receive a written health record of pups (shots, eye checks, etc.) and parents. Vet records for the parents shows a concern for the animals. A referral to their local vet: If they don't have one that is a very bad sign.

Ask how many litters they produce in a year.

Don't be too attached and be willing to walk away if things don't feel right. One time in our past, I wish we had done so. Live and learn there. The emotional aspect of this is difficult to see past.

If the breeder is doing things like you would, that is a good sign. If you cannot see the parents, there are no records (e.g., they just say "the puppies have their shots"), and you cannot speak with their vet, I would be very leery.

Cavaliers are notorious for Syringomyelia and skull Chiari malformations. I do not know whether out-crossing to a different breed resolve this. You do NOT what that in your pup.

Finally, ask the breeder to explain to you about a puppy's fear period. If they don't know what that is, walk.

EDIT: Cleaned up some grammar
By the time you know enough to choose a good financial adviser, you don't need one. | bogleheads.org is my advisor: The ER is 0.0% and the advice always solid.
denovo
Posts: 4569
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:04 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by denovo »

Nyc10036 wrote:This post makes me very sad.
Millions of dogs die in shelters every year and yet people breed more.

plus 1
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
Thrift Shop
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:32 am

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by Thrift Shop »

Not giving you grief, just some information.

I have adopted 2 perfectly good, loving dogs from my local humane society. No major health problems, no emotional problems. Just great dogs!

Please reconsider adopting from the humane society.
Topic Author
TRC
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:38 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by TRC »

IFRider wrote:
TRC wrote:hypo allergenic dog....The haters on this forum assume things way too quickly.
I've heard of hypoallergenic hand lotion and earrings but dogs? Really?

What happens when the dog is out for a walk and various allergy producing critters attach themselves to its fur?
.
So are you suggesting a chipmunk or squirrel is going to attached itself to a dog and come back to our house?
livesoft
Posts: 74574
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by livesoft »

You might ask the breeder if any former customers have dogs that they want to put up for adoption. An animal shelter is not the only place to find unwanted dogs.

Besides some (not all) of these unwanted dogs have problems such as biting and attacking humans. Just because an animal is in a shelter does not make it adoptable.

Not every puppy makes it out of the breeder either. That's the reality.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
DetroitRick
Posts: 881
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:28 am
Location: SE Michigan

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by DetroitRick »

Since you are visiting the breeder (I assume at their facility), use that opportunity to observe and inspect living quarters of puppies, parents and other dogs on premises. Cleanliness, adequate temperature, food and water, proper bedding, etc. are all indirect clues to help validate the breeder. You have already gotten some great tips above on health and vaccination records. The poster mentioning that a good breeder will be interviewing you too is especially spot on - and something you should expect from a good breeder. If they DON'T ask you questions, move on. They should want to know a lot about home environment - both people and property. They may take some general measure of financial resources to ensure the dog gets necessary lifelong care (I'm talking general questions, I've never had to give a financial statement, of course). A good breeder will also be happy to share ideas on food and nutrition specific to their breed. Willingness to share nutritional info, in fact, is a very good sign.

We've had both successes and failures in dealing with breeders ourselves. Generally those that show love and concern have yielded better results than those that discussed only pedigree and generalities. Trust your instincts and spend as much time as you are able. Try to observe personality in both prospective puppies and parents. See if the breeder is active in relevant breed clubs or rescues.

Healthwise, ask about genetic testing and general health histories, at least for parents. One of the best breeders that I ever dealt with had some genetic abnormalities in an early line. She stopped breeding the line, placed all in pet homes and then starting extensive testing on her new line for the rest of her career. Erring on the side of caution. Details (it was a common breed genetic flaw) aren't as important as a demonstrated willingness to go the extra mile for the health of the line.

That's an interesting breed you are looking at. We love poodles and cavs, and have gotten to know several cavashon's in our neighborhood (Cavalier KC and Bichon mixed). Use all your breeder visits to cross-check the presence of characteristics you are looking for - temperament, intelligence, playfullness, energy levels etc. Hope you can ignore some of the ignorance posted here and just pick up some tips to help you with breeder selection-anonymous message boards breed this sort of behavior. People have complex reasons for choosing these long-term members of the family, and the decision is nobody's business but yours. Have fun - please let us know how things go in your search. Best of luck.
User avatar
cheese_breath
Posts: 10090
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:08 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by cheese_breath »

TRC wrote:
IFRider wrote:
TRC wrote:hypo allergenic dog....The haters on this forum assume things way too quickly.
I've heard of hypoallergenic hand lotion and earrings but dogs? Really?

What happens when the dog is out for a walk and various allergy producing critters attach themselves to its fur?
.
So are you suggesting a chipmunk or squirrel is going to attached itself to a dog and come back to our house?
I love it. Great comeback. :D
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
User avatar
IFRider
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:40 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by IFRider »

cheese_breath wrote:
TRC wrote:
IFRider wrote:
TRC wrote:hypo allergenic dog....The haters on this forum assume things way too quickly.
I've heard of hypoallergenic hand lotion and earrings but dogs? Really?

What happens when the dog is out for a walk and various allergy producing critters attach themselves to its fur?
.
So are you suggesting a chipmunk or squirrel is going to attached itself to a dog and come back to our house?
I love it. Great comeback. :D
No. I'm suggesting that "hypoallergenic" dogs don't exist. I'm suggesting that allergens other than dog dander and saliva can cause allergic
reactions that will be attributed to the dog, and that these allergens can attach themselves to the dog's fur while outside on walks.

I'm suggesting that getting a dog for any other reason than loving the animal is a recipe for abandonment and eventual euthanization.

I come at this, not from the perspective of visiting breeders, but from the perspective of visiting shelters, rescues, and animal sanctuaries.

So call me a hater all you want. I'm advocating for the dogs (and cats).
Topic Author
TRC
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:38 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by TRC »

IFRider wrote:
cheese_breath wrote:
TRC wrote:
IFRider wrote:
TRC wrote:hypo allergenic dog....The haters on this forum assume things way too quickly.
I've heard of hypoallergenic hand lotion and earrings but dogs? Really?

What happens when the dog is out for a walk and various allergy producing critters attach themselves to its fur?
.
So are you suggesting a chipmunk or squirrel is going to attached itself to a dog and come back to our house?
I love it. Great comeback. :D
No. I'm suggesting that "hypoallergenic" dogs don't exist. I'm suggesting that allergens other than dog dander and saliva can cause allergic
reactions that will be attributed to the dog, and that these allergens can attach themselves to the dog's fur while outside on walks.

I'm suggesting that getting a dog for any other reason than loving the animal is a recipe for abandonment and eventual euthanization.

I come at this, not from the perspective of visiting breeders, but from the perspective of visiting shelters, rescues, and animal sanctuaries.

So call me a hater all you want. I'm advocating for the dogs (and cats).
I still don't get your point. What allergy producing critters could "attach" itself to a dog that would cause an allergic reaction? Can you give some specific examples? And of these critters that could attach themselves, are you assuming I'm allergic to them?
User avatar
IFRider
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:40 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by IFRider »

TRC wrote:
IFRider wrote:
cheese_breath wrote:
TRC wrote:
IFRider wrote:
I've heard of hypoallergenic hand lotion and earrings but dogs? Really?

What happens when the dog is out for a walk and various allergy producing critters attach themselves to its fur?
.
So are you suggesting a chipmunk or squirrel is going to attached itself to a dog and come back to our house?
I love it. Great comeback. :D
No. I'm suggesting that "hypoallergenic" dogs don't exist. I'm suggesting that allergens other than dog dander and saliva can cause allergic
reactions that will be attributed to the dog, and that these allergens can attach themselves to the dog's fur while outside on walks.

I'm suggesting that getting a dog for any other reason than loving the animal is a recipe for abandonment and eventual euthanization.

I come at this, not from the perspective of visiting breeders, but from the perspective of visiting shelters, rescues, and animal sanctuaries.

So call me a hater all you want. I'm advocating for the dogs (and cats).
I still don't get your point. What allergy producing critters could "attach" itself to a dog that would cause an allergic reaction? Can you give some specific examples? And of these critters that could attach themselves, are you assuming I'm allergic to them?
Pollen, fleas, ticks, bacteria from other animals feces, I'm sure I could think of a hundred, but the thread will be locked by then.
Mako
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:34 am
Location: MD

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by Mako »

IFRider wrote: No. I'm suggesting that "hypoallergenic" dogs don't exist. I'm suggesting that allergens other than dog dander and saliva can cause allergic
reactions that will be attributed to the dog, and that these allergens can attach themselves to the dog's fur while outside on walks.

I'm suggesting that getting a dog for any other reason than loving the animal is a recipe for abandonment and eventual euthanization.

I come at this, not from the perspective of visiting breeders, but from the perspective of visiting shelters, rescues, and animal sanctuaries.

So call me a hater all you want. I'm advocating for the dogs (and cats).
I suspect you're just being difficult but obviously dogs exist that have fewer allergy problems.

I have dogs that shed as normal. They bother certain family members who are "allergic to dogs."

I also have a dog that doesn't shed, its hair is more like ours and needs to be cut every month or whatever. This dog doesn't bother those family members.

I don't care if other allergens besides dander might "be attributed to the dog." This dog doesn't cause the allergy problems that other dogs do. It seems like that's what the OP wants.

Can a person not love a dog just because they don't want one that makes their eyes itch and water? Or do they have to suffer to prove their love? If they don't want a dog that they know is going to give them problems that means they will kill it at the first sign of some other unrelated trouble?
User avatar
IFRider
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:40 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by IFRider »

Mako wrote:Can a person not love a dog just because they don't want one that makes their eyes itch and water? Or do they have to suffer to prove their love? If they don't want a dog that they know is going to give them problems that means they will kill it at the first sign of some other unrelated trouble?
People can love dogs that make their eyes itch and water. But he doesn't sound like he has a lot of background with dogs and in his particular situation, just owning the dog could result in a lot of additional care and maintenance of the home. Dogs are abandoned under perfect circumstances by owners that didn't know what they were getting into.

I hold and pet dogs (and cats) at the Denver Dumb Friends League and the local humane society that were abandoned for no reason at all, let alone for causing potentially serious allergic reactions. So yeah, related and unrelated trouble.

I'll bow out now. I've made my point.
DetroitRick
Posts: 881
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:28 am
Location: SE Michigan

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by DetroitRick »

Regarding allergies, I can relate. Some dogs trigger mine, some do not, most are in that middle ground of slight allergic aggravation. Poodles solved my problems (the main reason I first chose that breed, actually), but people vary and you need to check this for yourself. I've had this discussion with several allergists and lots of breeders over the years. Opinions are mixed, but most agree there are at least some differences in that regard between breeds. But no truly hypo-allergenic breeds. In the end, you need direct exposure to the breed in question to know what will work for you. When in doubt, perhaps your breeder will lend you a dog for a few days to really check it out.

One thing I've noticed, in addition to allergenic characteristics of the breed, is how often the dog can be bathed makes a difference (reducing environmental stuff on fur, like grass and pollen, and controlling dander itself). Some breeds should not be bathed weekly or even monthly, some are fine on that schedule. That might be one characteristic to consider. I believe that is one reason why the Poodle breed has worked for me - they can readily be bathed as often as weekly without adverse impact on skin or coat (although ours has become an indoor dog and I only bathe every 4-5 weeks now). It can make a difference.

I also used a product called Allerpet in years past (in pet stores, on Amazon, etc). It's a liquid that you rub on the dog to remove/reduce dander. I found it helps, but did not find it to be a 100% cure.
Katietsu
Posts: 4340
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:48 am

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by Katietsu »

The hypoallergenic trait promoted for cavapoos is based on the link to the poodle and their non shedding coat. You can argue as to whether a poodle should be described as hypoallergenic but that is not where I want to go. However, when you have a litter of hybrid dogs, there will be great variability. Some of the dog's coats will have the desired hypoallergenic traits of the poodle and some will not. If the OP is as sensitive as described, there is a very real likelihood that they will take home a puppy that causes an allergic reaction. Discuss this with the breeder. Get in writing that the breeder will take the dog back if OP has allergic reaction.
sevenseas
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 8:44 am

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by sevenseas »

Veterinarian here. Designer breeds can be problematic for the reason some previous posters mentioned: there are heritable diseases in most purebreds, which are more difficult to screen for, or otherwise track genetically, in designer breeds. For example, poodles are predisposed to sebaceous adenitis (skin disease). Cavaliers are prone to mitral valve disease (cardiac disease). Responsible breeders do the appropriate screening tests, try to weed out affected individuals from their breeding lines, etc. The proliferation of designer breeds means more "breeders" (I use that term loosely) with less of an understanding of the diseases to which their dogs are predisposed, who perhaps take less seriously the responsibility they have (to their dogs and dog buyers).

I'm not saying that you can't get a perfectly fine, healthy and wonderful designer breed. But, the recommendations that others mention, about finding a truly responsible breeder (who is not in it for the money, but purely for the love of the breed) are really important.
quantAndHold
Posts: 5174
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by quantAndHold »

Do the dogs live in the breeder's house, or a kennel? House is better. Kennel is probably a puppy mill.

How many dogs does the breeder have? More than half a dozen smacks of puppy mill.

How many litters over the bitch's lifetime? More than 3 is hard on the bitch.

What does the breeder breed for? Health and temperament are the correct answers.

What health problems are common in the line?

Can the breeder produce a pedigree chart? Not that it matters, since cavapoo is really just a mutt with a fancy name, but the breeder should know the puppy's parentage for at least five generations.

What questions is the breeder asking you, other than "will that be cash or check?" Reputable breeders ask lots of questions and do home visits.

Can you return the puppy if things don't work out? Reputable breeders will not just accept returns, they will require you to relinquish it to them, rather than taking it to a shelter.

Why is this breed better than a purebred poodle? The "hypoallergenicness" comes from the poodle. Why would this be better than spending the same money on an actual purebred dog?
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
User avatar
unclescrooge
Posts: 5515
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:00 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by unclescrooge »

Angelus359 wrote:
knpstr wrote:
Nyc10036 wrote:This post makes me very sad.
Millions of dogs die in shelters every year and yet people breed more.
Yup and people will continue to breed their dogs for puppies. They need a home too.
Creating a market demand by buying bred dogs makes them breed more. If people stopped buying dogs from breeders, people would stop breeding them.
Let me guess...you adopted your kids from a orphanage too, right?
:mrgreen:
User avatar
knpstr
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by knpstr »

IFRider wrote:I'll bow out now.
Thanks!
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
User avatar
whaleknives
Posts: 1219
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:19 pm

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by whaleknives »

See Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Health, if you haven't already.

It's interesting that all purebred Cavs today are descended from only 6 dogs, and exhibit what's known as "founder effect", passing on a significant proportion of hereditary problems. DetroitRick and katietsu may have a good argument for a hypoallergenic purebred poodle.

My daughter the vet tech says she is not familiar with that particular mix, but recommends meeting the breeders as well as the dam and sire, and seeing the operation's conditions. A purebred, hypoallergenic breed is probably better and less likely to be sketchy. But hypoallergenic is never guaranteed.
"I'm an indexer. I own the market. And I'm happy." (John Bogle, "BusinessWeek", 8/17/07) ☕ Maritime signal flag W - Whiskey: "I require medical assistance."
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 68721
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: What to ask puppy breeder?

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread has run its course and is locked (contentious disagreement on "pure bred" vs. "adopt from a shelter", the question has been answered). See: Locked Topics
Moderators or site admins may lock a topic (set it so no more replies may be added) when a violation of posting policy has occurred. Occasionally, even if there are no overt violations of posting policy, a topic (or thread) will reach a point where the information content of the discussion has been essentially exhausted and further replies are much more likely to cause distress to the community than add anything of value.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Locked