Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

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Daisy Dog
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Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Daisy Dog » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:05 am

I am a TERRIBLE negotiator. My stomach is in a knot, my voice quivers, I can't make eye contact, and generally I"m a mess when it comes to responding to an offer I've received. Naturally, salespeople love me.

So help! What words should I use to get this price down - a car quote. (and BTW, it is the color I want - exterior and interior and has Eyesight option)

2017 Subaru Outback 2.5i Premium
Internet Quote
Mfgs. List $30,915
Msgs. Invoice $28,480
Dealership Internet price: $27,932 plus $489 d & h. Tax for local area , tags and License extra.

I just know there must be something I can say to get the first offer down.

Thanks!!!!
Daisy Dog

Rupert
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use

Post by Rupert » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:12 am

I usually quote them prices from on-line sources such as Edmunds. I'd say something like, "Edmunds, etc., says people in my area are paying X. I'll pay X." If they reject your offer initially, wait it out. They're testing you to see if you're willing to walk way. (The First Rule of Negotiation = Be prepared to walk away.) Sometimes they'll say no, but then come back in 12 hours and counteroffer. It's also very effective to play dealers against each other, if there are multiple dealers in your area that you might reasonably consider buying from. In which case, you would say, "Dealer X has offered me X out-the-door price. Can you beat it?"

edge
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use

Post by edge » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:13 am

First you need to prepare.

Second you need to be introspective. At some point you will realize that if you are ready to walk away then you should not have stress.

Especially in the car situation. There are more cars than buyers. You are the scarce resource with leverage. They want to move the product. Why do you let them flip the tables on you so easily?

livesoft
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by livesoft » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:16 am

How about:

"Thanks, but the price is too high for me. I'll keep shopping."

They should then ask you, "What is your budget? What were you expecting to pay?"

And then you say, "I wasn't expecting to pay more than $25,000 out the door. Is that possible?"

They may smile or smirk. And respond with their exact same offer. Then you can say, "Hmmm, it doesn't look like we have a deal, so thanks for your time." And then walk out the door.

Don't tell them that it is the color you want either.
Last edited by livesoft on Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BogleMelon
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by BogleMelon » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:18 am

Agree to what has been said about walk away strategy.
If you walked in with the intention to get the car no matter what, the sales person going to read that in your eyes. And won't get the price down. You really have to be willing and convinced to walk away, and never even come back to that same exact dealer, if he "didn't get me the price I am willing to pay".
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btenny
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use

Post by btenny » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:19 am

Did you get quotes from several dealers for with car you are looking at? Do you have a quote from another dealer? What is that price? Maybe not the color you want but mostly the car you want? If so post these price quotes and let us help you work the issues.

Good Luck.

badger42
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by badger42 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:19 am

You know... if you hate negotiation, why not just go for a Costco or AAA deal with pre-negotiated prices?

They won't be the lowest possible price. They'll be pretty close, without all of the stress. It's not worth having your stomach in knots over what's essentially an extra half percent to percent off the purchase price.

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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:20 am

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues car (buying a car). I also retitled the thread.

Can you take a trusted friend or family member with you to the dealer? Let them deal with the salesman. After you agree on the price, there will be additional negotiations for all those package options that you don't want. The sales pressure is high at this point.
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cantos
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by cantos » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:22 am

Daisy Dog wrote:I am a TERRIBLE negotiator. My stomach is in a knot, my voice quivers, I can't make eye contact, and generally I"m a mess when it comes to responding to an offer I've received. Naturally, salespeople love me.

So help! What words should I use to get this price down - a car quote. (and BTW, it is the color I want - exterior and interior and has Eyesight option)

2017 Subaru Outback 2.5i Premium
Internet Quote
Mfgs. List $30,915
Msgs. Invoice $28,480
Dealership Internet price: $27,932 plus $489 d & h. Tax for local area , tags and License extra.

I just know there must be something I can say to get the first offer down.

Thanks!!!!
Daisy Dog
Negotiate over email. First email something like:
"Hi, I am interested in -----. I am also sending this email to X, Y, and Z dealerships in the area. I will buy the one that gets me the best price. Please give me your absolute best ALL-IN price."
Send the email to several dealerships. Then wait for replies.

Second email to the one dealership you want:
"Thanks for the reply. Z dealership can give me an all-in price at $27,000. Can you beat it?"
Wait for reply.

Third email:
"Thanks for beating it. I will buy and call you in a bit." OR:
"Thanks. Even though you haven't beaten the price, I'm satisfied and will call you in a bit."

I do something like above whenever I buy a car. Simple, takes little time, and you get the best price.

MarkVH0518
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use

Post by MarkVH0518 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:25 am

I can negotiate some things, but I hate haggling over prices too.

Nevertheless, I've gotten good deals on cars. Here's how I accomplish it.
1) You need to be willing to walk away. So how do you do that?
2) You cannot negotiate in an emergency. Can you afford to wait? There's nothing in your post to indicate you cannot wait.
3) Find another dealer who will offer a better price - even if it's far away.
- I've negotiated with an out-of-state offer, even if I probably couldn't really get that offer.
- when the dealer asked me about the quality my alternative offer, I stated not fantasy, but also not concrete.
- Note: your alternative offer *does not* have to be in your favorite color - just don't tell them that.
4) Go to a dealership that *actually* is the low cost dealer. I've always found this to be the high volume dealer in my area.
- Dealers other than the high volume dealer either cannot or will not offer the best price.
5) Take the *cheapest* color, not your favorite color. This actually can save you quite a bit.
- Cars with unfavorable colors sit on the dealer lots and they have want to get rid of them.
6) Take financing - but pay the loan off in the first month
- I've done this several times. Tell the dealer what you plan to do. They will select the right loan. Dealer gets a kickback; reduces your price.
- You pay one month's interest.

Again, you have to be willing to walk away. If you aren't, then you are prioritizing on something else and not price.
I'd summarize my suggestion as this:
- Find an alternative offer, probably using the local high volume dealer
- Be willing to wait and be flexible on color

moshe
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by moshe » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:26 am

1) Shop 3 dealerships and ask them to email you their best offer for the exact model and features you want.
2) Go into the dealership on the last day of the month about 60 minutes before closing. i bought a 1 year old car this way using the "blue book" and was able to purchase at the lowest of the three prices listed. They refused until i made it clear it was that price or NO sale. The dealership is motivated to close deals on the final day of the month due to their financing.
3) Set your price and stick to it. Take a friend or family member that "does not care" if the deal gets done or not to negotiate the final deal.
4) Do not pay any documentation fees that are not mandated by local or state laws even if it is in black print on the contract.

HTH,
~Moshe
My money has no emotions. ~Moshe | | I'm the world's greatest expert on my own opinion. ~Bruce Williams

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Raymond
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Raymond » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:28 am

cantos wrote:Negotiate over email...I do something like above whenever I buy a car. Simple, takes little time, and you get the best price.
Exactly.

The only time you have to talk to a salesperson is during a test drive (I let them know I won't be buying that day), and when you go to pick up the car.

A formalized version of this can be found at: Fighting Chance.com
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livesoft
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by livesoft » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:29 am

I have read that dealers cannot keep Subaru outbacks on the lot with cars selling in about a week. I don't know if that is true or not. This can affect how dealers respond.

One has to let them know that you have cheaper alternatives. For instance, a 3-year old Lexus RX-350 is a luxury SUV and will cost LESS than the Subaru quote listed by the OP.
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MarkVH0518
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by MarkVH0518 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:41 am

To get pricing information I used True Car.
Which I got for free via Consumer Reports.
Which I got for free via my local library.
And I searched for prices in other areas, e.g. where my children live.
For example, Chicago was cheaper than Columbus - but not for all manufacturers.
I probably couldn't get the prices in those other areas, but it helped with my mindset.

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HueyLD
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by HueyLD » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:47 am

Ask a family member or a friend to go with you.

It will work better if that person stands tall and has a loud mouth. Try it because it may work!

new2bogle
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by new2bogle » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:50 am

As some posters have noted, negotiate over email. When I bought a new car, I sent an email to all Honda dealers in a 200 mile radius. I knew the price I wanted and one dealer actually beat that price on their first email. No other dealer came close (though two called and asked what price I got and then matched it - one VERY rudely said "fine I'll match it when are you coming in?" I told them never because of their attitude.) Always get an OTD price.

Anyways, once I accepted the OTD pricing on the car with exact features/colors I wanted, I printed out the email and went to the dealership. They tried playing a bit there since the salesman from the email wasn't in yet. All you have to do is keep firm, best way is to just not saying anything. Literally, I told them I agreed to a price of $X OTD for a specific car that is on the lot with the email in my hand (which they never asked to look at) and then just sat quietly. The salesman kept talking and I just sat there. They finally "found" the car (maybe 60-90 minutes later - so lots of sitting) from the email and came out with the exact purchase price from the email and I signed.

Best thing to do is practice with someone (who is hopefully loud and talkative).

Coato
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Coato » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:58 am

Last time we bought a car using a Professor of Game Theory's specific suggestion on how to frame the negotiation.

I think this is the link, I didn't rewatch the video and it has been 5 years but it looks familiar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coWgbmlvRTU

If I recall it works if there are a number of dealers nearby, you aren't financing and you aren't trading in...

It worked like a charm for us but it has been a few years. I am a godawful negotiator and we paid a very good price for our car. We did have to drive 1.5 hours because the dealer furthest away offered the best price (of course).

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dm200
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by dm200 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:13 pm

There are, in my opinion, several major aspects to new car buying negotiations. The first is the car itself. Determine what you want (in detail) and insist that you will not buy (pay for) anything more costly. Do not move unless and until the price negotiations are only for the specific model and features. Walk out the door if they will not do that.

The next is price.

An important aspect of final price is all the add ons. You cannot do anything about taxes (sales). Resist add ons such as "processing fee", extended warranties, paint (bird poop) protection, prepaid maintenance, GAP insurance, and so on. Practice getting up and heading for the door. The latest expensive add-on (about $1,000) is for something related to coverage for tires. I don't have the details. These F&I (financing and insurance) folks are paid on commission. They are usually "good" in making the buyer fall for their pitch, near tears, being your "friend".

It is also the case that both the sales folks and F&I folks really play on gender, racial, ethnic, background to make a sale. Just remember, despiite what they say, they are not your "friend".

In the Washington DC and Baltimore MD areas use http://www.ubs4cars.com

gloomydog
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by gloomydog » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:19 pm

My friend just received her 2017 Outback Touring, she is in love. I think you'll be happy with your outback!

My tip is to use the email method. Very easy and straightforward usually. But I would create a new email addy to do that. Your problem is mainly you're trying to negotiate a very hot car, so you can't expect a huge discount imo.

I have a Subaru Ambassador $500 off coupon for you if that helps make your decision easier. You can negotiate your best price, and then when it's time to pay you hand it to dealer for $500 off. It is supposed to work like that anyway! You'll be the first person to get the coupon from me if you want. PM me if you like, happy to help.

http://imgur.com/a/RCJ8x

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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by qwertyjazz » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:28 pm

Negotiate over email with quotes from multiple dealers. But that was not your question
The key words were
So they are 'Bye Bye' (said like a small child as you leave)
Or 'Bye Felicia'
It matters how you want to deliver the statement as you walk if you are upsold

Just realized that I forgot the advanced Mike Myers technique
'Zip it'
All 3 work for any agressive sales technique
G.E. Box "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

smackboy1
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by smackboy1 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:39 pm

Daisy Dog wrote:I am a TERRIBLE negotiator. My stomach is in a knot, my voice quivers, I can't make eye contact, and generally I"m a mess when it comes to responding to an offer I've received. Naturally, salespeople love me.

So help! What words should I use to get this price down - a car quote. (and BTW, it is the color I want - exterior and interior and has Eyesight option)

2017 Subaru Outback 2.5i Premium
Internet Quote
Mfgs. List $30,915
Msgs. Invoice $28,480
Dealership Internet price: $27,932 plus $489 d & h. Tax for local area , tags and License extra.

I just know there must be something I can say to get the first offer down.

Thanks!!!!
Daisy Dog
In answer to your question, the best thing you can say to the dealer to get the first offer down is:

"I have lower out-the-door prices for the same vehicle from 2 other dealerships I would be willing to buy from. If your dealership is still interested in earning my business, please submit it's best OTD bid to me in writing."

Negotiating car price comes up so often it should be a sticky. The solution is here in Denovo's thread.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=124638

The conventional car negotiating paradigm is all wrong. In a situation where the buyer is negotiating against the dealer, the dealer has all advantages of information and skill. You need to change the strategy so it is dealer vs. dealer in a bidding war, and your only job is to select the final winner. Buyer does not need skill, just the ability to doggedly follow the proper script.

You start with 10 dealerships within a 2 hour distance and go through as many bidding rounds as it take by sending all the dealerships the same email. In the end there should be 9 dealers who are unable to match the low bid and 1 lone dealership with the lowest offer. Then go buy the car.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

scooter
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by scooter » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:46 pm

Once you have determined the vehicle you want with all off the features including color or colors use the internet.

I took to the internet and found all dealers within 50 miles and asked them for a final out the door price so there would be no last minute additions.

I told them all that they had one chance and to give me their final price.

groovy9
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by groovy9 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:46 pm

Daisy Dog wrote:
I just know there must be something I can say to get the first offer down.
The most powerful negotiating tactic is a willingness to walk away. Find 3 cars you'd be satisfied with, tell the salesman that you're undecided amongst them, make an offer you think is fair based on what manufacturer incentives you know he has to work with (understand that the dealership can't be expected to lose money on your deal), and then walk out the door if you're declined.

Visit the other 2 and do the same.

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dm200
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by dm200 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:46 pm

Many years ago, two female (both unmarried, in their late 30's - mid 40's) coworkers each were ready to buy new cars. They had similar desires for the type of new car. They went to car dealers together, and made it clear to the dealer/sales person that there would be either two sales or zero. They supported each other in the "negotiations". They ended up, from what I understood, with the cars they wanted at a very fair price and terms.

I was impressed at their technique.

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dm200
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by dm200 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:48 pm

groovy9 wrote:
Daisy Dog wrote:
I just know there must be something I can say to get the first offer down.
The most powerful negotiating tactic is a willingness to walk away. Find 3 cars you'd be satisfied with, tell the salesman that you're undecided amongst them, make an offer you think is fair based on what manufacturer incentives you know he has to work with (understand that the dealership can't be expected to lose money on your deal), and then walk out the door if you're declined.

Visit the other 2 and do the same.
Yes! Do not, though, fall for a phone call or message that they can do better if you come in - but will not tell you unless you are "in person". Their game is to get you there and work on breaking down your resistance.

Ready3Retire
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Ready3Retire » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:52 pm

Also, be wary of all the extras they try to sell you - undercoating, wheel insurance, etc. Decide ahead of time if you need any of these. They will use fear tactics like telling you how bad the roads are in your area.

WhyNotUs
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by WhyNotUs » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:59 pm

Is there something wrong with the internet price that was offered? You seem to have found the car that you want, the price seems in line with Consumer Reports' "The best value is the 2.5i Premium, which can get you a well-equipped all-wheel-drive wagon for about $28,000."

Maybe you are ready to move to the next stage, saying no repeatedly to the sales manager trying to sell you add ons.
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glock19
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by glock19 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:24 pm

Daisy Dog:

You have told us in your OP you are a terrible negotiator and it makes you sick. Many folks are that way. Personally I love the rush of a good business deal, but that doesn't apply here.

Even though you have been given excellent advice in this thread, I doubt you are going to find a script of words that will help you if you have an inherit dislike of the negotiating process. Your best bet is to research the internet and determine what you feel is a fair price. It may not be the lowest price you would have walked away with, but it's a price you can live with and won't cause undue stress. In fact, the offer you currently have may be fine.

Then simply find a dealer that will sell at that price and purchase. As mentioned avoid any and all extras that are offered. Extended warranty has been debated many times so that one is up to you.

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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Maverick3320 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:28 pm

Daisy Dog wrote:I am a TERRIBLE negotiator. My stomach is in a knot, my voice quivers, I can't make eye contact, and generally I"m a mess when it comes to responding to an offer I've received. Naturally, salespeople love me.

So help! What words should I use to get this price down - a car quote. (and BTW, it is the color I want - exterior and interior and has Eyesight option)

2017 Subaru Outback 2.5i Premium
Internet Quote
Mfgs. List $30,915
Msgs. Invoice $28,480
Dealership Internet price: $27,932 plus $489 d & h. Tax for local area , tags and License extra.

I just know there must be something I can say to get the first offer down.

Thanks!!!!
Daisy Dog
Don't take it personally. The sooner you take the misquoted advice from Lt. Ron Speirs in Band of Brothers and realize that it's all a game, the sooner you can perform as a competent negotiator - without mercy, without compassion, without remorse :sharebeer

FRANK2009
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by FRANK2009 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:39 pm

I know how you feel Daisy Dog. Add to that the fact that you're dealing with someone who negotiates all day every day and who can blame you.

Subaru used to have something called a VIP program. It allowed members of the VIP program to get 2% below invoice just for walking in. The program is gone I think. So..when I bought my Forester I asked for 2% below invoice. The salesman said "no way". I asked for 1% below invoice, and after a small amount of haggling, I got it. Was that a great deal? I don't know, but probably not. I do love my Forester though.


Gloomydog: Where were you last August when I bought the Forester? :happy

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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by bloom2708 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:58 pm

WhyNotUs wrote:Is there something wrong with the internet price that was offered? You seem to have found the car that you want, the price seems in line with Consumer Reports' "The best value is the 2.5i Premium, which can get you a well-equipped all-wheel-drive wagon for about $28,000."

Maybe you are ready to move to the next stage, saying no repeatedly to the sales manager trying to sell you add ons.
I was thinking along these lines as well. If it is THE car and you are below dealer invoice is there a price that would satisfy you or is there always going to be that lingering feeling of "I could do better.."?

Would $250 or $500 more make it a "perfect deal"? If so, say "Can you do $500 better?". If they say no, then walk away.

Maybe the total amount being spent factors in. It is a big purchase so you will never feel confident that you get the "best deal". It seems that people agonize for extended periods and then even after are never sure that they got a "good deal".

Perhaps email negotiations are the right direction. Create a gmail account that you only use for car dealings. Good luck!
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:03 pm

VIP still exists but you have to be a member for (I believe) 6 months.

Email each dealer. If they have the car listed on their website, quote the stock number and ask them the car price, what their doc fee is and tell them you're ready to buy.

Of course, where you live makes a difference. If you're in Arizona, you have to drive for 3 days to get to the next dealer to Chandler. If you're in New England, in 10 minutes, you can hit 3 dealers.

Look on Heuberger's site for a similar car and email them for a price. They're the largest Subaru dealer in the country and will give you a price via email. Feel free to quote that you can get the car from them and quote the price. http://www.bestbuysubaru.com/

I see that currently, they're taking $2730 off MSRP without even contacting them. Contacting will get more off.
If the dealer doesn't have the car, tell them exactly what you want. You can always order one. They're all built in Indiana.
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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by likegarden » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:05 pm

I am retired for a while. We just bought a car and had as trade-in a 13 year old car. Previously I had looked at cars at dealerships and the internet. I did not want a lot of problems while buying a car. Past experience and looking at KBB and Edmunds indicated to me that I should be able to get about 7% off the MSRP. After looking on the internet at the cars dealers in my area have, we figured out what we wanted, including color and the model, and which dealer to see. Google showed that this dealer had satisfied customers. We also looked at KBB for a reasonable price for the trade-in : only a few $100. So we marched into this dealership, told them what we wanted, asked to see that particular car, drove it, and asked for the out-the-door price considering 7% off the MSRP and that they take our old car as trade-in. We agreed to their out-the-door price and bought the car.

4 years ago we bought our other then new car via visiting various dealers, asked them to give otd prices via Email and looked to save a few $100 between dealers. It was a lot of stress, also considering that I sold another old car via Craig's List. We said that this time we would do it easier, and we did and are satisfied.

During the buying at the dealer, they will try to sell you extras like undercoating, service plans and extended warranty, say to all of that NO. Perhaps tell them upfront that you do not want to hear any of those from their sales people.

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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Wakefield1 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:19 pm

If you are lucky enough to have the car offered at a good price (could happen although might be rarely) I would recommend to go ahead with the purchase without doing haggling tactics with them.
Of course research the price (but you have already done that)
Credit Union preferred/prenegotiated pricing program for members?
A car dealer/part owner of the family dealership used to be a distance runner,he could tell you some stories about tough customers. I was able to buy a car through him,no problems.

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Mel Lindauer » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:06 pm

Hi DD:

Nice to see your name of a post. DD, the best dog that ever lived. :D

It's a shame you don't live in my neck of the woods or I'd be happy to go to the dealer and negotiate on your behalf. I'm an old hand at this and I always get the car I want for the price I say I'll pay or else I walk.

I remember one deal where I went into the Cadillac dealer and told the salesperson that they had one shot and gave him the price I was willing to pay for a specific car. He said that there was "no way" he could sell the car for that price.

I walked, went to another dealer with the same offer and purchased the car. The first dealer called me back a few days later and wanted to talk about a deal and I told him it was too late; I had already purchased a car from another dealer. He howled and asked me why I didn't give him another chance. I told him that I had explicitly told him that he had one shot and I meant it.

The keys are:
1. Know exactly what you want.
2. Know exactly what you're willing to pay, and
3. Be willing to walk if you can't get the car at that OTD price.

Hope you'll be joining us for the 2017 Bogleheads Conference. Would love to see you again.

Best regards,

Mel

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Sandtrap » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:17 pm

Daisy Dog wrote:I am a TERRIBLE negotiator. My stomach is in a knot, my voice quivers, I can't make eye contact, and generally I"m a mess when it comes to responding to an offer I've received. Naturally, salespeople love me.

So help! What words should I use to get this price down - a car quote. (and BTW, it is the color I want - exterior and interior and has Eyesight option)

2017 Subaru Outback 2.5i Premium
Internet Quote
Mfgs. List $30,915
Msgs. Invoice $28,480
Dealership Internet price: $27,932 plus $489 d & h. Tax for local area , tags and License extra.

I just know there must be something I can say to get the first offer down.

Thanks!!!!
Daisy Dog
There are no "words" or tactics you can use. The dealership is an expert at spotting "the weak". Like predator lions calmly waiting for "the one".
Bring a friend to negotiate for you. One that will walk away (setup your signals) if the deal is lousy or as a strategy. Do all your internet homework and research but still realize that once walking onto a dealership, you're fair game.
Back to your red meat eating buddy. Someone who is focused on you getting the best terms/price. Someone who is very very familiar with car sales (no a cocky know it all "helpful Harry").
Or bring a spouse if you have one. That way, "I need to talk it over with my wife", "we need to talk about it later", etc. Dealerships hate this as the one they have to target is not you.
There are 2 points of weakness. The sale/offer/acceptance, and the finance/paperwork/nice guy with glasses, office. Often more $ is made on the "back end" of a deal than the front. Beware.
This is a focus on the sales dynamics which can throw all your fine research away.

Here's the "mantra".
No dealership is my friend. "like Wall Street".
No car salesman is my friend. "like brokers taking your money, smiling".
No car salesman's "supervisor" is my friend. "like broker's bosses, smiling."
There is no such thing as a "friendly" dealership or a "wonderful car buying family experience".

FWIW I worked part time at several dealerships for 4 years while going to the university long long long ago. Same sharks. Same tactics.
Last edited by Sandtrap on Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Daisy Dog » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:14 pm

Wow! Thank you all - everyone has helped me TREMENDOUSLY (I just realized I am trending POTUS's hyperbole...ha ha - no offense meant.)

The dealer I have been working with is Heuberger in Colorado Springs and I've heard they're a good Subaru dealer because of their volume.

I like the idea of emailing several dealers as there are a few in Florida near where I live and also in Colorado where I am about half the time.

So I will take everyone's suggestions to heart and of course, Bogleheads are the best!

And Mel, so GREAT to hear from you too. I would love to attend the 2017 Bogleheads conference but I probably can't afford to do so because I will have just bought a new car...i.e., think O. Henry - combs v. selling hair. Ho. Ho.

Daisy

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Daisy Dog » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:19 pm

Gloomy dog.

I would love to take you up on your generous offer of the coupon. I tried to PM you, but couldn't get your address to be listed as recipient.

#dumbasapost

Hope you can help me - or just PM me! I know how to pick those up.

Daisy Dog

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by ARD99 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:32 pm

Daisy Dog,

Lot's of good advice on being willing to walk away. Salespeople know this too so some try to get something of yours to hold onto so you can't/won't just walk out the door. First time I was buying a new car the sales person wanted $20 to "show that I was serious" (I was very young and looked it). Another time they were holding onto my car keys after test driving my trade in. I had to be very insistent to get them back.

Point is don't give them anything that prevents you from walking out.

Good luck.

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Shackleton » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:21 pm

Hm, I live in the Springs and am told I can be imposing. And I do love a good haggle! Maybe I should rent out my services?
“Superhuman effort isn't worth a damn unless it achieves results.” ~Ernest Shackleton

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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Good Listener » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:30 pm

badger42 wrote:You know... if you hate negotiation, why not just go for a Costco or AAA deal with pre-negotiated prices?

They won't be the lowest possible price. They'll be pretty close, without all of the stress. It's not worth having your stomach in knots over what's essentially an extra half percent to percent off the purchase price.
Bingo. That's what I will do should I buy another car...Current one is old but low mileage, I drive very little, and Uber/Lyft are great. If you read my posts, I don't negotiate much and usually just give in to everything to move life along. So buying with a Costco service is perfect and selling through CarMax works too.

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Re: Terrible negotiation - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by Sandtrap » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:58 pm

Good Listener wrote:
badger42 wrote:You know... if you hate negotiation, why not just go for a Costco or AAA deal with pre-negotiated prices?

They won't be the lowest possible price. They'll be pretty close, without all of the stress. It's not worth having your stomach in knots over what's essentially an extra half percent to percent off the purchase price.
Bingo. That's what I will do should I buy another car...Current one is old but low mileage, I drive very little, and Uber/Lyft are great. If you read my posts, I don't negotiate much and usually just give in to everything to move life along. So buying with a Costco service is perfect and selling through CarMax works too.
Costco. Good advice.
Last edited by Sandtrap on Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by auntie » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:04 pm

When I bought my new car last April I decided on the car I wanted, asked the salesman what I needed to pay for it, bottom line, out the door. When he gave me a price I acted shocked and said that's $3000 more than I'm ready to pay. He said just a minute, left to talk to the manager. He came back with paperwork and numbers to show why they couldn't possibly sell it to me at that price. They'd be losing money.

I said too bad, I guess I can't buy it then. And as I walked out the manager came and stopped me and tried throwing more words at me. I just smiled and told him if I can't have that car at that price I'll do without. I did make sure they had my phone number. And I had done some research to figure out the lowest possible price.

Later that day the phone rang. Friendly salesman, just wanted to know if I had reconsidered. Nope.

Next day another friendly call. Still nope.

Following day he called again, why don't I come in and we can talk about it. I said I don't want to waste my time. I'll come in if they will meet my price. He said they would, and they did. I was polite enough not to mention that they had claimed they would be losing money at that price.

It was fun. :D
High risk does not equal high reward. It equals high risk of no reward.

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by MathWizard » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:18 pm

The problem you have is that you are stuck on "THIS CAR".

Here is how many used cars were sold in the US over the last few years:

2012: 40,500,000
2013: 41,000,000
2014: 41,250,000
2015: 38,276,140

Out of around 40 million cars sold you have to have "THIS EXACT CAR"

Now the dealer has you where he wants you.

You have to say: "No I'm not interested in that car at that price.", and mean it.

I got stuck once when my wife didn't want the car we had researched and wanted to look at the next car over
for which we did not know the price. Once the salesman knew she wanted it, he would not budge on the price.
Now I'm stuck between my wife and the salesman. That was the only time I ever paid above blue book.

It is a nice car, but my wife has an eye for quality, and 9 times out of ten, she can spot the most expensive
article in a clothing store. She often doesn't buy it, but she can spot it.

Salesman try to get you hooked on one car so that you "lose" if you don;t buy it.
You are worried about losing. I think that I lose if I let them pressure me.
I have walked out many times. If I feel any pressure, I'm gone. The guy up the street has the same
kind of cars for sale.

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by stlutz » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:23 pm

I hate negotiating as well. So, I shop.

I recently bought a car. After deciding exactly what I wanted on went onto each dealer's website in my city (6 of them) and found the closest match. I clicked on the button to "request today's super duper wonderful price." In the comments I asked them to provide me an out-the-door price for my zipcode/city/county. (As someone else suggested, I created a temporary e-mail account for this to make sure I didn't get pestered in the future).

4 dealers responded with pricing. None of them sent an OTD price so I followed up and asked for that. All 4 replied with OTD quotes and they were all within $100 of each other. Prices about $900 below the price Truecar quoted. I made an appointment for the next day with the closest dealer that had my most preferred color.

Before heading to that dealer, I stopped by CarMax to have them give me a quote to buy my old car (good for a week, I believe). If the dealer offered me a higher price than that more for my trade-in, I'd give it to the dealer; if not I'd sell to Car Max.

Went to the dealer and test drove the car, they offered me a higher price for my trade in than CarMax did, so we just did the paperwork and I was out of there in fairly short order.

Bottom line--I did absolutely zero negotiating and paid significantly less than what TrueCar said was the average sale price for the car. (Not sure if I completely trust them).

I'm sure I could have negotiated more (as detailed in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=124638&start=200 , but I chose not to as I felt I had done "well enough."

J295
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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by J295 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:47 pm

Do it all by email. We bought our 2016 Lexus with an email process with various dealers. Started with 10 dealers on day 1 and by day 3 SUV was purchased from an out of town dealer for substantially less than the local dealer bid.

ccieemeritus
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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by ccieemeritus » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:14 pm

Use the Costco auto buying service if you are a Costco member. That way you don't need to negotiate a price at all.

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by carolinaman » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:36 am

I have a lot of experience negotiating and think I am pretty good at it. Years ago, a consultant offered to help me negotiate a large software contract after i got the vendor's best and final offer. The key to the consultant's approach was to negotiate everything by letter and not have any phone or in person contact until you close the deal. He said regardless of how good a negotiator I thought I was, the vendor would read me if we did phone or in person negotiations. It worked! He got the price down another 20% using well designed letters.

That same principle can apply to you. Do your negotiations by the Internet or email. Your emails should show a strong interest to buy but only at the right price. If the car dealer feels you are insincere or just jerking them around, you will not get their best offer. Your emails need to be brief and to the point. It is best to give them a deadline, i.e. "If I do not get your agreement to my terms by close of business on Friday, I will pursue other dealers and/or car models."

One more thing. Make sure you get "out the door" quotes. Dealers are infamous at adding administrative costs, dealer prep or other junk costs to the bottom line. You want their bottom line price including taxes as a quote.

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by dwickenh » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:58 am

+1 for the negotiation by e-mail.

If you do end up negotiating in person, be willing to walk away if the dealership quits negotiating. I usually get my best deal when I stand up and head for the door. 8-)

Dan
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett

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Re: Terrible negotiator - need help with words to use [Buying a car]

Post by kelway » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:00 am

I'd suggest doing all your negotiating via email with the internet sales guy at the dealership. Some may lock up and want you to come in, and some will take it all the way to a deal you just need to sign.

[[ Well hahah - I had it in my head after a quick review I was the first to suggest it.... so consider it a +1 for Email.

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