Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

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Casper
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Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Casper »

I'm looking at purchasing a certified pre-owned Honda Odyssey. It seems like a lot of bogleheads have bought Odysseys at some point, so thought I'd run one deal by you all. Would also love to hear about any experiences with buying or owning CPO Hondas, as this is my first.

I'm considering a CPO 2016 Odyssey EX-L with navigation for $29,900 (dealer's price). 16,000 miles. I drove the vehicle last night and it's in great condition. Has a few scratches on the outside, but no dents or other damage. Inside is clean, leather is in good condition. I didn't check every single item in the car to see if it worked, but would do that before a purchase. Would also try to take it to a mechanic for a quick inspection before purchase.

According to CarFax, it was leased in October 2015. I'm not sure if it was a one-year lease or what, but in October 2016 the dealer (a different dealer than the one I'm using) sold it at auction and it ended up at the current dealer, who has held it since November. No other issues shown on the CarFax report.

$29,900 seems like a pretty good deal. KBB shows a usual price of $32,866, with a fair market range of $29,685 to $32,846. My goal would be to get the price down to $30,000 out-the-door. I have a trade-in that I was going to sell to CarMax but could sell to dealer if they agree to match CarMax. That would help with the OTD price with the tax off-set. I was planning on not mentioning the trade-in until necessary. I'm a cash buyer.

Any thoughts on all of this?
fundseeker
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by fundseeker »

I would not buy used unless I save many thousands of dollars, especially if you plan to keep the van for years. Have you negotiated the best deal possible on a brand new one? Many people look at the sticker of a new one, with all of the bogus dealer add ons, and think that is the price they have to pay, and so they over pay for some used one when they could have bought new for not much more, if they negotiate well.

Please go to http://www.odyclub.com/forums/ and read the forum about what people are paying now, and then get your best price on just an EX-L. Why pay more for Nav when everyone has a smartphone these days with google maps?

Not sure why I really care that much, but negotiate a good deal on a new one and save yourself the headache of buying a van that someone else did who knows what to. Good luck!
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Casper
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Casper »

fundseeker wrote:I would not buy used unless I save many thousands of dollars, especially if you plan to keep the van for years. Have you negotiated the best deal possible on a brand new one? Many people look at the sticker of a new one, with all of the bogus dealer add ons, and think that is the price they have to pay, and so they over pay for some used one when they could have bought new for not much more, if they negotiate well.

Please go to http://www.odyclub.com/forums/ and read the forum about what people are paying now, and then get your best price on just an EX-L. Why pay more for Nav when everyone has a smartphone these days with google maps?

Not sure why I really care that much, but negotiate a good deal on a new one and save yourself the headache of buying a van that someone else did who knows what to. Good luck!
Fair enough, but I'm not going to get into the used vs new debate. We are mainly looking at CPO because this is a sudden purchase that we weren't planning on, so we're trying to limit out of pocket costs. If it was a planned purchase, then yes we'd be purchasing new.

That said, I can get a new 2016 EX-L for about $32,300 OTD (with trade-in offset). That would be $2300 more than my OTD target on the CPO 2016 I'm looking at, though that one has nav. Nav is not something I was looking for, but it's something I like to have. I don't use it for actual navigation, but in my current vehicles I find it useful to have the map up on the screen when we're in a new area, or trying to find alternate routes, etc.

Your point is well taken -- the $2300 difference isn't huge and could be worth it for a new one.
chicago_meatball
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by chicago_meatball »

I just bought a car and may have left a few hundred on the table with the Carmax trade.

Assuming you have the Carmax offer in advance and would be content with it. Wait for them to give you a number and then tell them to never mind, Carmax was much better and you will just sell to them.

They will of course ask what the Carmax price, so tack on another 10% to Carmax and work from their. I told them the actual Carmax offer which locked me into essentially the Carmax price.

dealership came up to that price no questions asked for proof.
TRC
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by TRC »

We bought a new 2016 EXL w/ RES new, out the door for 34K. I would look for new for peace of mind. That being said, if you can get that one for 25K, I'd be tempted. Also, do you like / need NAV? I have the same Nav in my Acura TL and it's tedious to put an address in and does not take into consideration traffic. I pretty much use Waze for all my GPS needs. You can't beat the DVD option for long road trips. Yes, you can always use tablets (we have those too), but the DVD option is better in our experience.
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Casper
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Casper »

chicago_meatball wrote:I just bought a car and may have left a few hundred on the table with the Carmax trade.

Assuming you have the Carmax offer in advance and would be content with it. Wait for them to give you a number and then tell them to never mind, Carmax was much better and you will just sell to them.

They will of course ask what the Carmax price, so tack on another 10% to Carmax and work from their. I told them the actual Carmax offer which locked me into essentially the Carmax price.

dealership came up to that price no questions asked for proof.
I'd be hesitant to inflate the Carmax price. If they ask to see the actual quote (which I would, if I were them), they'll see I was not being straight with them. The dealer is also aware that it's worth more to me to sell the car to them than to Carmax, because of the reduction in sales tax. I'd save $1400 in tax by selling it to the dealer.

I'm planning to negotiate the vehicle price and then, when that's finished, add that if they'll just match Carmax then they can take my trade-in. In reality, they could offer less than Carmax and it might still be a better deal than Carmax with the tax reduction.
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lthenderson
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by lthenderson »

In my opinion, buying a CPO vehicle is just insuring that the dealer makes more money, especially when you are talking about a reliable vehicle such as the Honda Odyssey. For paying the extra money, you get a 12 month limited warranty plus two years extra years or 40,000 extra miles on the drive train. You aren't likely to collect on any of those things. My 07' Odyssey is still running flawlessly.
livesoft
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by livesoft »

I will speculate that this vehicle was in a fender bender and had a cosmetic repair. That's probably why it was sold at auction.

I suggest making an offer 20% below current asking price and settling for 15% below current asking price. If they won't budge, simply tell them you are not in a hurry and can wait until they need to get the thing off the lot or need to make a sales quota.
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deanbrew
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by deanbrew »

Casper wrote: Fair enough, but I'm not going to get into the used vs new debate. We are mainly looking at CPO because this is a sudden purchase that we weren't planning on, so we're trying to limit out of pocket costs. If it was a planned purchase, then yes we'd be purchasing new.

That said, I can get a new 2016 EX-L for about $32,300 OTD (with trade-in offset). That would be $2300 more than my OTD target on the CPO 2016 I'm looking at, though that one has nav. Nav is not something I was looking for, but it's something I like to have. I don't use it for actual navigation, but in my current vehicles I find it useful to have the map up on the screen when we're in a new area, or trying to find alternate routes, etc.

Your point is well taken -- the $2300 difference isn't huge and could be worth it for a new one.
I think you have to get into the used vs. new debate. I'm not sure how the planned vs. sudden purchase is pertinent. You can buy either one today, I'm guessing.

You have to consider that an Odyssey with NAV costs about $2k more than one without NAV. Whether that is worth it to you or not is part of the decision, it seems. To me, I'd rather pay $150 for a garmin than $2,000 for a built-in GPS. When it comes time to sell, I'm guessing the NAV doesn't add $2,000 to the car's value, but it adds something. So, the $2,300 difference is actually a bit more when you consider the new one doesn't have NAV and the used one does. But, the used one is one model year older than a new one, which is probably worth at least $2,000 to $3,000 when it comes time to sell.

In the end, I don't think you are saving enough on the used one to make up for the one year model year difference, the mileage and the warranty. But you might be able to negotiate the used car price down further. If not, I'd probably buy new.
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Rupert
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Rupert »

CPOs are usually not a great deal. I would only go that route over a standard used car if I were considering a vehicle that was outside the mfr's standard warranty period.

For what it's worth, I bought a new 2014 EX-L w/o navigation (who pays extra for that anymore?) for about $31,000 out the door, taxes and registration fees included. Honda was offering a $1500 rebate at the time if you financed at .99%. So financing was cheaper than paying cash, assuming you paid the note off almost immediately (which I did). It's almost 3 years old now and has had no issues, just the standard fluid changes. The OEM tires are not good, however, as I'm about to have to replace them at less than 40,000 miles. Mine came with the Continentals, not the Michelins.
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Put zero trust in carfax. We bought a used Nissan 350z that had obviously had a repaint, replaced fenders, hood and bumper. A wheel well liner was missing. Clean carfax. 2 years later, the accident shows up on carfax.

For that little money difference, what are you going to do if you find out in a year that it was crashed and repaired or a lemon law return?
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tim1999
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by tim1999 »

4 months is an eternity for a car dealer to hold on to a used car for. You can probably beat them down on price more if they think they can move this car off the lot. Also, the history on his car is weird. Pretty much no manufacturer runs 1-year leases. Whomever had this car either needed to get out of the lease due to a change in circumstances (financial, relocation, etc.), traded (likely at a loss) for something else, or there was some kind of accident as livesoft suggested. I'd just buy new and avoid the risk.
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Atgard »

I agree, you can get a brand new EX-L around $31,000 or so. I don't think $1,000 is enough savings to justify a used car with 16,000 miles!

Or, if you can get a brand new one with navigation for $2,300 more, that also seems like a better deal, even if you're only lukewarm on the navigation.

I'm all for buying used to save money, but $1,000 or $2,000 doesn't seem like enough savings. For that price, buying the new car makes more financial sense as you can drive it an extra year or two, less chance of mechanical issues, you'll get more when you re-sell it later, etc.

I just wouldn't spend $30,000 for a used car when $31,000 will buy me the new car small and <10 miles on the odometer. $25,000? Now we're talking.
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David Jay
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by David Jay »

livesoft wrote:I will speculate that this vehicle was in a fender bender and had a cosmetic repair. That's probably why it was sold at auction.

I suggest making an offer 20% below current asking price and settling for 15% below current asking price. If they won't budge, simply tell them you are not in a hurry and can wait until they need to get the thing off the lot or need to make a sales quota.
I agree! It's been on their lot since November, the 2018s will be out in a few months. Do they want to move it or not? Offer 25K
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Loik098 »

Casper wrote: $29,900 seems like a pretty good deal. KBB shows a usual price of $32,866, with a fair market range of $29,685 to $32,846. My goal would be to get the price down to $30,000 out-the-door.
I paid about $2k more than your goal price for a brand new EX-L just a few months ago. Granted, it didn't come with Navi, but you've said you don't really need it. You can always bluetooth your phone's navigational commands through the van's speakers.

Agree with others that a savings of just $2k isn't worth the hassle of not knowing the complete story behind this van. Especially not if you end up buying an extended warranty to protect yourself.
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Frisco Kid »

New versus CPO is definately vehicle dependent. Odyssey like the Toyota 4 Runner we recently bought doesn't seem to offer any CPO advantages.
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Casper
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Casper »

Thanks all for the replies. Very helpful. I'm surprised so many people came out against going with a CPO, but your comments have made me reconsider. Going to see how low I can get the price on the CPO, but will also take another look at a new 2016.
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by deanbrew »

Casper wrote:Thanks all for the replies. Very helpful. I'm surprised so many people came out against going with a CPO, but your comments have made me reconsider. Going to see how low I can get the price on the CPO, but will also take another look at a new 2016.
A new 2016? Don't you mean a new 2017? I wouldn't buy a 2016 model for the same price as a 2017 one. A year difference will be important when it comes time to sell (or if insurance pays off after an accident).
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Casper
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Casper »

deanbrew wrote:
Casper wrote:Thanks all for the replies. Very helpful. I'm surprised so many people came out against going with a CPO, but your comments have made me reconsider. Going to see how low I can get the price on the CPO, but will also take another look at a new 2016.
A new 2016? Don't you mean a new 2017? I wouldn't buy a 2016 model for the same price as a 2017 one. A year difference will be important when it comes time to sell (or if insurance pays off after an accident).
No, I mean a 2016. They are heavily discounted right now as compared to the 2017s.
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Katietsu »

Check the mileage on what you are seeing advertised as a new 2016 Odyssey. It is possible that it is a car that has been used by the dealer's family or one of the managers. So, effectively, you get a used car that they can call new because it has never been titled. Make sure the price reflects the amount of use.

I looked at an 18 month old Honda Pilot with 27,000 miles a couple of years ago. I sent one email to a local dealer. It said that I was going to be this particular used car "this weekend" but that I would consider a new Pilot on their lot for the right price. They came back with an offer only $500 more than the best price on a used Pilot.n
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Erwin007 »

Casper wrote:
fundseeker wrote:I would not buy used unless I save many thousands of dollars, especially if you plan to keep the van for years. Have you negotiated the best deal possible on a brand new one? Many people look at the sticker of a new one, with all of the bogus dealer add ons, and think that is the price they have to pay, and so they over pay for some used one when they could have bought new for not much more, if they negotiate well.

Please go to http://www.odyclub.com/forums/ and read the forum about what people are paying now, and then get your best price on just an EX-L. Why pay more for Nav when everyone has a smartphone these days with google maps?

Not sure why I really care that much, but negotiate a good deal on a new one and save yourself the headache of buying a van that someone else did who knows what to. Good luck!
Fair enough, but I'm not going to get into the used vs new debate. We are mainly looking at CPO because this is a sudden purchase that we weren't planning on, so we're trying to limit out of pocket costs. If it was a planned purchase, then yes we'd be purchasing new.

That said, I can get a new 2016 EX-L for about $32,300 OTD (with trade-in offset). That would be $2300 more than my OTD target on the CPO 2016 I'm looking at, though that one has nav. Nav is not something I was looking for, but it's something I like to have. I don't use it for actual navigation, but in my current vehicles I find it useful to have the map up on the screen when we're in a new area, or trying to find alternate routes, etc.

Your point is well taken -- the $2300 difference isn't huge and could be worth it for a new one.
For 7% savings there is no way in the world I would go used over new. Zero chance. Penny wise and pound foolish comes to mind. What's the difference on a monthly payment (even 3 years) on that? $75?
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

The ubiquitous call for OTD (out the door) prices is one that confuses me, since it usually infers tax included. But if the tax in your jurisdiction is 5% and in mine it is 7.55, what I really want to know, as a relevant data point, is your total price (vehicle, document fee, etc) BUT not including the tax.
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David Jay
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by David Jay »

TheGreyingDuke wrote:The ubiquitous call for OTD (out the door) prices is one that confuses me, since it usually infers tax included. But if the tax in your jurisdiction is 5% and in mine it is 7.55, what I really want to know, as a relevant data point, is your total price (vehicle, document fee, etc) BUT not including the tax.
Lots of dealers put on a "document" fee, $300 or $500. This is just a way to take your money, I think they find that most people don't back out of a deal after they have agreed to purchase a vehicle. Out the door solves this issue. "I don't care how you guys do your book-keeping, just tell me my total cost".
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Atgard
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Atgard »

Out the door price is important to catch dealer document fees and other hidden mark-ups, but I think it is fair to discuss the price not including "tax, tag, and title," since these vary from place to place and even the dealer isn't allowed to mark-up sales tax.
health teacher
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by health teacher »

I bought a brand new 16 EX-L with RES for under 32k before TTL in June of 16. 2k worth of savings for 16k miles is not worth it to me. Now, if all you can find new is $4-5k higher within a couple of hours, I'd go CPO here, but I bet you can get a deal similar to mine with some digging.

Google 2016 Odyssey prices paid and you'll find the forum results that'll give you a great idea what people are paying out the door for new vans.
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by inbox788 »

Casper wrote:That said, I can get a new 2016 EX-L for about $32,300 OTD (with trade-in offset). That would be $2300 more than my OTD target on the CPO 2016 I'm looking at, though that one has nav. Nav is not something I was looking for, but it's something I like to have. I don't use it for actual navigation, but in my current vehicles I find it useful to have the map up on the screen when we're in a new area, or trying to find alternate routes, etc.

Your point is well taken -- the $2300 difference isn't huge and could be worth it for a new one.
$2300/16,000 = $0.14/mile for the best miles the car will have. I would gladly pay that for driving around a brand new car and sell the car after a year or less!

Trade-in talk is obfuscating the deal. Those first miles are worth at least $0.25 IMO.
fundseeker
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by fundseeker »

Casper wrote:Thanks all for the replies. Very helpful. I'm surprised so many people came out against going with a CPO, but your comments have made me reconsider. Going to see how low I can get the price on the CPO, but will also take another look at a new 2016.
Seems almost unanimous to me. If there is anyway you would consider just an EX, you could probably get a new one for equal or less than the CPO. Regardless of your decision, your battle with the dealer is only half way over after you agree on the price. The next battle will be in the F&I guy's office, who is usually on 100% commission trying to rip you off! Good luck, and please don't let the sell you a warranty. You can buy the same factory warranty online afterwards for much less!
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by hmw »

livesoft wrote:I will speculate that this vehicle was in a fender bender and had a cosmetic repair. That's probably why it was sold at auction.

I suggest making an offer 20% below current asking price and settling for 15% below current asking price. If they won't budge, simply tell them you are not in a hurry and can wait until they need to get the thing off the lot or need to make a sales quota.
Livesoft, how did you come up with the 20% and 15% figure? I don't mean to hijack the thread. I am looking for a vehicle right now after a recent accident. We have our eyes on a 2015 Mercedes ML-350 CPO with 40k miles. The asking price was $35,980 last week. We offered $30,500 and they countered with $34500 yesterday. Curiously they raised their listed price on line to $37,945 today.

The full price history are

1/4/17. $ 42,980
1/14/17. $38,980
1/29/17. $35,980
2/9/17. $37,945

I guess there was a large drop in price at the end of January. I can probably expect it to drop again towards the end of this month.
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by livesoft »

^Just personal experience on buying 2 CPO Lexus SUVs.

See also: viewtopic.php?p=3113472#p3113472
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htdrag11
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by htdrag11 »

Winter months in the Northeast is always the best time to shop for car.

For the record, I bought a 2012 CPO Lexus. You're doing the right thing by checking the duration of the car in the dealer's lot.
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Casper
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Casper »

Update from OP here. My choice is now between the following:

- CPO 2015 Odyssey EX-L with 20,000 miles: $26,700. OTD would be about $27,200.
- New 2016 Odyssey EX-L: $31,600. OTD would be $32,413.

Thoughts? Does this weigh the decision more towards CPO in anyone's mind?
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Atgard »

Casper wrote:Update from OP here. My choice is now between the following:

- CPO 2015 Odyssey EX-L with 20,000 miles: $26,700. OTD would be about $27,200.
- New 2016 Odyssey EX-L: $31,600. OTD would be $32,413.

Thoughts? Does this weigh the decision more towards CPO in anyone's mind?
At least now you're saving about $5,000 with the pre-owned one, which is about the $0.25/mile another poster recommended. So now it would be a close call.

The other thing I might look at is how much is a new 2017? If that is close to the $32,413 price (and I think it should be), that might be the best deal. While both are new, having a newer model year will be helpful for resale.
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Casper
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by Casper »

Atgard wrote:
Casper wrote:Update from OP here. My choice is now between the following:

- CPO 2015 Odyssey EX-L with 20,000 miles: $26,700. OTD would be about $27,200.
- New 2016 Odyssey EX-L: $31,600. OTD would be $32,413.

Thoughts? Does this weigh the decision more towards CPO in anyone's mind?
At least now you're saving about $5,000 with the pre-owned one, which is about the $0.25/mile another poster recommended. So now it would be a close call.

The other thing I might look at is how much is a new 2017? If that is close to the $32,413 price (and I think it should be), that might be the best deal. While both are new, having a newer model year will be helpful for resale.
In my experience new 2017s are a thousand or two more than a new 2016. I saw the 2015 CPO in person tonight and it's in excellent condition. Has had one owner, who bought the car from the same dealer he sold it back to. He did his maintenance there too, so they have all the records. I'm bringing it to my mechanic tomorrow for a once-over, but will most likely go with the 2015 at this point. Very hard for me to justify spending more than $5,000 extra for a new one. They are also matching Carmax for my trade-in, so I'm saving $1400 in tax.
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htdrag11
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by htdrag11 »

Casper wrote: In my experience new 2017s are a thousand or two more than a new 2016. I saw the 2015 CPO in person tonight and it's in excellent condition. Has had one owner, who bought the car from the same dealer he sold it back to. He did his maintenance there too, so they have all the records. I'm bringing it to my mechanic tomorrow for a once-over, but will most likely go with the 2015 at this point. Very hard for me to justify spending more than $5,000 extra for a new one. They are also matching Carmax for my trade-in, so I'm saving $1400 in tax.
Well, when I was looking at the 2014 Lexus RX before I bought the 2012 CPO with 20k miles by one owner, the price delta was $13k, so that was a no brainer for me. I did not bring it to my mechanic. Mine is grey. White and black cars are very easy to spot for accident since it's much tougher to match the original paint.

Honda and Toyota are reliable cars, just boring, IMO. It is uneventful after putting in 30k miles since I have it for 2.5 years. However, you did much better in your trade-in to price shop with CarMax; live and learn. Thanks.
fundseeker
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Re: Deal on 2016 CPO Honda Odyssey

Post by fundseeker »

Casper, Yeah, the $5k savings make it a closer call, and depending on your financial situation, maybe the used one is best. But, keep in mind that the CPO warranty will end at the end of four years, so, if that van was placed in service say in Oct of 2014, your four years ends in Oct 2018, if I am not mistaken. Also, new tires, new brakes, etc., are going to happen soon on a 20k mile van, so those expenses are headed your way faster than on a new one. Just want you to consider the issues. It is good that this dealer sold it and serviced it, but also have them produce all records for all of the issues it was brought in for, meaning not just the routine servicing but the complaints and warranty repairs. And,getting an inspection is a great idea! Also, I'd like to talk to the prior owner. Dealers don't like to give you the name and number, but they could have the prior owner call you. Or, maybe that name is in the glove box from the original purchase documents. Talking to the prior owner may be overkill, but it is $25k that your spending. Good luck.
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