Please help buying new Avalon limited!

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Topic Author
eagleeyes
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Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

Hi gang!

I am planning on purchasing a 2017 Avalon limited. I have done the bogleheads method and solicited out the door prices from multiple dealers.

Best price so far seems to 41900. Highest price so far is 43180....how does that square with the community?

I am wondering now that I have the OTD price how much harder to go and negotiate in store. Is this a reasonable deal?

For reference. Msrp is 41900. True car average price is 38500 without tax transaction and other fees.

What say he hardcore hagglers? Yes or Nay?
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StevieG72
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by StevieG72 »

MSRP out the door is not a bad deal. Taxes / tags / processing etc. add, up so sale price is a few thousand below MSRP.

If you have a preferred dealer that you want to work with ask them to beat the best price.

Do you know the invoice price? Incentives? Dealer holdback? If you have these figures you will know if its a good deal. Information is available on the internet, may take a little digging.

Also be prepared for the hard sell on accessories, extended warranties etc. at the dealership. I simply brought a cashiers check for the OTD price and that was all they got out of me!
Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others.
PFInterest
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by PFInterest »

Seems like a lot for toned down Lexus. Try and break 40!
Topic Author
eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

I agree with the toned down Lexus comment. I told my wife if we are dropping 40k for a Toyota, maybe we should get a Lexus instead. So we test drove a 2017 RX 350, the gold standard for crossovers. She was annoyed that at 46k several features including triple zone climate control was not standard. She sits in the back a lot with our infant so this was important to her. And you had to spring extra cash for blind spot monitoring and rear camera etc

But in spirit I agree with that get a Lexus comment.
Ervin
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by Ervin »

Why didn't you test drive the ES350, which is the equivalent Lexus model?

As an Avalon owner, I think the redesigned Avalon is a bad value beyond the base models. It's just not as polished as a Lexus. If I were to buy now, I'd rather buy a used Lexus. Toyota has destroyed the Avalon on purpose, so that it's not the poor man's Lexus anymore. My car developed a rattle within 30,000 miles, and let's not talk about the annoying wind noise in the 2013 model, which Toyota has refused to fix for many of us. Made in USA does not equal made in Japan.

Respectfully, triple zone climate control is ridiculous. The only thing more ridiculous is paying a huge premium for it.

I have a hybrid in the Touring edition and a base Camry. I got the Camry after my wife refused to buy a second Avalon, not even the basic gas one. Why? Because the luxuries are not worth a $15k premium, not even the safety addons. And I totally agree, despite enjoying both cars. Unless one is a careless/distracted driver, most safety addons won't make a difference.
Last edited by Ervin on Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
RIP, Mr. Bogle.
daveydoo
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by daveydoo »

eagleeyes wrote:
Best price so far seems to 41900...Msrp is 41900. True car average price is 38500 without tax transaction and other fees.

What say he hardcore hagglers? Yes or Nay?
Since you asked...

You're getting MSRP? Is this a high-demand vehicle? I can't imagine an Avalon is -- even an Avalon Limited. Getting MSRP -- and nowhere near your own TrueCar benchmark -- seems very weak, imo. I'd think you'd do better as a walk-in. This is a 2017, right?

Get the dealer cost from any number of websites and work up from there -- if you want to give them $3-4K over cost, that's generous but maybe that's your style. $1K over cost seems generous to me for this price-range vehicle. You used to be able to get this info directly from CR, including the dealer hold-backs, but that doesn't seem to exist any more.
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"
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celia
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by celia »

We've been successful by "looking" through the Toyota dealership. When the salesman asked what we wanted, I said "x" would be nice, but we can only afford $y in cash (ie, no loans so don't try to upsell me). My price was maybe 10-15% below MSRP. I don't think the salesman said anything but had an agreeable reaction. He went to speak to the manager. We were told that sometimes that car can be had for that price but it would only be during a weekend sale and there are only a few available at the advertised price (VIN numbers are in the ad). So we gave him our phone number and asked him to call us when it is available.

On Friday mornings we would get the local newspaper and look at the car sales. (Now you can probably look at dealer websites.) One Friday after 2 or 3 weeks, "our" car was on sale for "our" price, so I called in late for work and went in to claim the car. Meanwhile, the salesman tried to call me (so he could get his commission) but I was there before him. Got it for the price I wanted!

For Toyotas, I understand the biggest dealer is in the Los Angeles area (actually on Peck Rd in El Monte, for you locals). They move them out as fast as they come in since many companies buy their fleet cars from them, I believe. So their quoted email price is bare bones since they make it up in volume. We were going to go with their emailed quote until the above referenced salesman at a local dealer told us how they did weekend sales.
Topic Author
eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

daveydoo wrote:
eagleeyes wrote:
Best price so far seems to 41900...Msrp is 41900. True car average price is 38500 without tax transaction and other fees.

What say he hardcore hagglers? Yes or Nay?
Since you asked...

You're getting MSRP? Is this a high-demand vehicle? I can't imagine an Avalon is -- even an Avalon Limited. Getting MSRP -- and nowhere near your own TrueCar benchmark -- seems very weak, imo. I'd think you'd do better as a walk-in. This is a 2017, right?

Get the dealer cost from any number of websites and work up from there -- if you want to give them $3-4K over cost, that's generous but maybe that's your style. $1K over cost seems generous to me for this price-range vehicle. You used to be able to get this info directly from CR, including the dealer hold-backs, but that doesn't seem to exist any more.
For clarification purposes. 2017 Avalon limited. Msrp is 41900. Best price is 41900, including tax tags transaction and etc fees, essentially an out the door price. Also, truecar price does not include above fees.

Agreed that an Avalon is not a high demand vehicle, which can only help me negotiate down further I hope!

I am going to the dealership tomorrow and will look to see how much lower I can get. I think if I can get the car for 38k out the door I would write a check on the spot. Thoughts?
Topic Author
eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

Ervin wrote:Why didn't you test drive the ES350, which is the equivalent Lexus model?

As an Avalon owner, I think the redesigned Avalon is a bad value beyond the base models. It's just not as polished as a Lexus. If I were to buy now, I'd rather buy a used Lexus. Toyota has destroyed the Avalon on purpose, so that it's not the poor man's Lexus anymore. My car developed a rattle within 30,000 miles, and let's not talk about the annoying wind noise in the 2013 model, which Toyota has refused to fix for many of us. Made in USA does not equal made in Japan.

Respectfully, triple zone climate control is ridiculous. The only thing more ridiculous is paying a huge premium for it.

I have a hybrid in the Touring edition and a base Camry. I got the Camry after my wife refused to buy a second Avalon, not even the basic gas one. Why? Because the luxuries are not worth a $15k premium, not even the safety addons. And I totally agree, despite enjoying both cars. Unless one is a careless/distracted driver, most safety addons won't make a difference.
I completely agree!! I initially was just going to get the xle premium which is the mid level model, but my wife likes the decked out features. She hates sitting behind me freezing, which is the reason for the triple zone climate thing.

Can you comment on difference in how loud the hybrid vs the non hybrid is?

Thanks again all who have responded
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eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

celia wrote:We've been successful by "looking" through the Toyota dealership. When the salesman asked what we wanted, I said "x" would be nice, but we can only afford $y in cash (ie, no loans so don't try to upsell me). My price was maybe 10-15% below MSRP. I don't think the salesman said anything but had an agreeable reaction. He went to speak to the manager. We were told that sometimes that car can be had for that price but it would only be during a weekend sale and there are only a few available at the advertised price (VIN numbers are in the ad). So we gave him our phone number and asked him to call us when it is available.

On Friday mornings we would get the local newspaper and look at the car sales. (Now you can probably look at dealer websites.) One Friday after 2 or 3 weeks, "our" car was on sale for "our" price, so I called in late for work and went in to claim the car. Meanwhile, the salesman tried to call me (so he could get his commission) but I was there before him. Got it for the price I wanted!

For Toyotas, I understand the biggest dealer is in the Los Angeles area (actually on Peck Rd in El Monte, for you locals). They move them out as fast as they come in since many companies buy their fleet cars from them, I believe. So their quoted email price is bare bones since they make it up in volume. We were going to go with their emailed quote until the above referenced salesman at a local dealer told us how they did weekend sales.
Just sent an email to the LA dealer you mentioned. Will see if I can get a bare bones out the door quotes.
sport
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by sport »

Ervin wrote:Why didn't you test drive the ES350, which is the equivalent Lexus model?
I have been under the impression that the ES350 was the same size as the Camry. The Avalon is larger than the Camry. Am I incorrect?
cmeretire
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by cmeretire »

I just bought a 2016 Avalon Limited (Not 2017) only because:

1. I found the color I wanted available.
2. List price 42300, Paid 31500. If don't have to have a 2017, look for a new 2016, they will negotiate very nicely on those.
3. This also included a Toyota 3000.00 incentive at the time I bought. I don't know if that is still available.

We needed another car and I was going to just look for a used Lexus but at this price, it's hard to beat. I'm sure you can find some 2016's available if you're OK with that.

Good Luck
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celia
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by celia »

eagleeyes wrote:
celia wrote:We've been successful by "looking" through the Toyota dealership. When the salesman asked what we wanted, I said "x" would be nice, but we can only afford $y in cash (ie, no loans so don't try to upsell me). My price was maybe 10-15% below MSRP. I don't think the salesman said anything but had an agreeable reaction. He went to speak to the manager. We were told that sometimes that car can be had for that price but it would only be during a weekend sale and there are only a few available at the advertised price (VIN numbers are in the ad). So we gave him our phone number and asked him to call us when it is available.

On Friday mornings we would get the local newspaper and look at the car sales. (Now you can probably look at dealer websites.) One Friday after 2 or 3 weeks, "our" car was on sale for "our" price, so I called in late for work and went in to claim the car. Meanwhile, the salesman tried to call me (so he could get his commission) but I was there before him. Got it for the price I wanted!

For Toyotas, I understand the biggest dealer is in the Los Angeles area (actually on Peck Rd in El Monte, for you locals). They move them out as fast as they come in since many companies buy their fleet cars from them, I believe. So their quoted email price is bare bones since they make it up in volume. We were going to go with their emailed quote until the above referenced salesman at a local dealer told us how they did weekend sales.
Just sent an email to the LA dealer you mentioned. Will see if I can get a bare bones out the door quotes.
Although it will be interesting to see what they quote you, if you don't live in California it won't be a "fair" comparison since California (and a dozen other states) have extra emissions and clean air requirements on cars sold here compared to other states.

http://e360.yale.edu/features/californi ... o_industry :
Nichols: Yes, clearly cars that are manufactured for the California marketplace also get sold outside of California. But we also have 13 states that followed California’s lead automatically. They’ve signed up for the California car program. Those states include all the states in the Northeast plus Oregon and New Mexico. They are going to be requiring that all the cars sold in their states meet California’s standards.
techrover
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by techrover »

I am a happy Avalon driver so far...but no idea of how the newer models have watered down.

If looking to negotiate car price, I found this process quiet useful on my recent purchase - http://www.realcartips.com/guide/newcars.shtml
Not all dealers will entertain you, but I was able to get almost 20% off MSRP. Now MSRP is also a made up number, but what this process gets you is make dealers compete with each other. You can do most of the negotiation without stepping into a dealership and you don't have to get the actual price above invoice as the author suggest - just get the same baseline info(e.g. Total OTD in zipcode xxxxx) from each dealer to compare. Remember to specifically ask the dealer to only include rebates you are eligible for - sometimes they game you listing rebates you can't quality for and at last minute come up with increase in price.

As other poster mentioned, go for last year model for best bargain.
Good luck.
Ervin
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by Ervin »

sport wrote:
Ervin wrote:Why didn't you test drive the ES350, which is the equivalent Lexus model?
I have been under the impression that the ES350 was the same size as the Camry. The Avalon is larger than the Camry. Am I incorrect?
The ES350 is the size of the new Avalon, AFAIK. There are many people who cross-shop for them. It was the old Avalon that was the size of an LS460.

The ES350 is 193 in x 71 in x 57 in. The Avalon is 195 in x 72 in x 57 in.

20-30% off MSRP are fantastic and rare deals.
RIP, Mr. Bogle.
Ervin
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by Ervin »

eagleeyes wrote:Can you comment on difference in how loud the hybrid vs the non hybrid is?
I test drove the gas Avalon only once, but it was pretty quiet. So is my Camry (same gas engine as the hybrid - also smaller car, better acceleration).

The hybrid is dead quiet while electric-only, and still its gas engine noise has never bothered me. I would not buy the hybrid unless it's at the same price or cheaper, AND you are in a CARB state (much longer hybrid battery warranty).

I agree that you should look for a 2016 Avalon. The differences should be minimal and you might save $5-7K.
RIP, Mr. Bogle.
inbox788
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by inbox788 »

eagleeyes wrote:Just sent an email to the LA dealer you mentioned. Will see if I can get a bare bones out the door quotes.
My latest experience with them was poor. They were nowhere near competitive and not willing to deal. Might have been the sales persons or managers I was dealing with, so be sure to try different dealers and shop around for best deal.
lazydavid
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by lazydavid »

sport wrote:
Ervin wrote:Why didn't you test drive the ES350, which is the equivalent Lexus model?
I have been under the impression that the ES350 was the same size as the Camry. The Avalon is larger than the Camry. Am I incorrect?
The first few generations of ES were based on the Camry. The sixth-generation introduced in 2012 is based on the Avalon. It's much larger now, and has a smaller price premium over the Toyota equivalent (because the Toyota equivalent is more expensive).
mw1739
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by mw1739 »

I bought a 2016 Avalon Limited in July last year. I paid $33,770 + tax and title. Very happy with the price and the car. I agree with the other posters though - if the price is going to be in the 40's - I would look at a Lexus.
alfaspider
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by alfaspider »

Be aware that Avalon depreciate like falling rocks. A CPO 2016 Avalon Limited can be had for low to mid 20s. If you spend $40k on an Avalon, you are looking to lose 10-15k in depreciation in the first year.
carolinaman
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by carolinaman »

I bought a used 2007 Avalon Limited for my DW in 2010. I bought it as a certified used car from Toyota dealer with 12k warranty (it had 38k miles on it). I cannot remember the exact price, but it was about 10 to 15% below going prices for that car, and it was almost 50% below MSRP for a new equivalent vehicle. A salesman at Carmax had informed me of the fact that Avalon's drop a lot in value their first 3 years, unlike most Toyota vehicles. I normally buy new but given the price drop, this seemed like a good deal. DW has been extremely pleased with the Avalon. It performs well but drives like a big car which it is (I prefer midsize, i.e. Camry).

I hope I am not confusing you, but you may want to check prices for equivalent Avalon's 2 or 3 years old. That may be a much better deal. Also, I like the comments about Lexus. It sounds like you should at least kick the tires on a Lexus before taking the plunge for a new Avalon. Also, compare used prices of both Avalon and Lexus to see how their values hold up.
FoolStreet
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by FoolStreet »

eagleeyes wrote:Hi gang!

I am planning on purchasing a 2017 Avalon limited. I have done the bogleheads method and solicited out the door prices from multiple dealers.

Best price so far seems to 41900. Highest price so far is 43180....how does that square with the community?

I am wondering now that I have the OTD price how much harder to go and negotiate in store. Is this a reasonable deal?

For reference. Msrp is 41900. True car average price is 38500 without tax transaction and other fees.

What say he hardcore hagglers? Yes or Nay?
Do more research on edmunds and edmunds forums.
smackboy1
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by smackboy1 »

eagleeyes wrote:I am planning on purchasing a 2017 Avalon limited. I have done the bogleheads method and solicited out the door prices from multiple dealers.

Best price so far seems to 41900. Highest price so far is 43180....how does that square with the community?

I am wondering now that I have the OTD price how much harder to go and negotiate in store. Is this a reasonable deal?

For reference. Msrp is 41900. True car average price is 38500 without tax transaction and other fees.
There really isn't enough information for anybody to give an opinion.

How many dealers submitted bids?
How many rounds of bidding were there before reaching the lowest price of 41,900?
What is tax, tags, destination and other fees? Comparing an MSRP and True Car price net of these costs to an OTD price is meaningless. Comparisons need to be apples to apples.
If the email negotiations were done correctly, it should not be possible to negotiate much lower price in person, because at that point there should have been at least 2 or more other dealerships that have dropped out because they cannot match the low bid.

By definition a "good deal" should be significantly below average. An average deal means that half of buyers got a better deal than you did. If done this correctly, the low bid price should be one of the lowest reported on True Car - or even lower than that.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
researcher
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by researcher »

eagleeyes wrote:Hi gang!
I am planning on purchasing a 2017 Avalon limited. I have done the bogleheads method and solicited out the door prices from multiple dealers.
Best price so far seems to 41900. Highest price so far is 43180....how does that square with the community?
I am wondering now that I have the OTD price how much harder to go and negotiate in store. Is this a reasonable deal?
For reference. Msrp is 41900. True car average price is 38500 without tax transaction and other fees.
What say he hardcore hagglers? Yes or Nay?
You should NOT post the total OTD price of the car if you want meaningful information.
All tax/title/registration fees specific to your locality should be excluded. Otherwise, you will never get an apples-to-apples comparison.

For example, the highest average state/local sales tax rate is 9.45% and the lowest is 0%.

Say two people in different states buy the same car for the same price (say $40K). The OTD price would vary by nearly $4,000, simply due to state sales tax (that can't be negotiated).
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lthenderson
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by lthenderson »

eagleeyes wrote: Best price so far seems to 41900. Msrp is 41900. What say he hardcore hagglers? Yes or Nay?
I have never payed at or above MSRP price out the door for any vehicle I've bought. Unlike most people on here, I've found the best negotiating strategy is to go to the actual dealer, talk with an actual salesperson (gasp!) and have my checkbook visible with pen in hand to write a check. When you buy vehicles, a bird in hand (person with money sitting in front of you) is worth 100 in the bush (those filling your email inbox with thousands of mass emails). Because of that, they are willing to knock off more money.

Last summer when we bought our last vehicle, I went into the dealer and sat down with the saleperson (gasp!) and told her what I would give her for the vehicle I had just test drove. She came back with a $3000 higher offer. I said I had given her my top price already. She came back with a lower offer three more times after I repeated that I wasn't going to offer a higher price without looking elsewhere. A half hour later we were at $2500 lower than her initial offer and hit a stalemate so I walked out without the car. They called me two days later and asked me to come back in. I got it for my initial first offer which was $3000 lower. But I had to talk to a salesperson (gasp!).
Topic Author
eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

cmeretire wrote:I just bought a 2016 Avalon Limited (Not 2017) only because:

1. I found the color I wanted available.
2. List price 42300, Paid 31500. If don't have to have a 2017, look for a new 2016, they will negotiate very nicely on those.
3. This also included a Toyota 3000.00 incentive at the time I bought. I don't know if that is still available.

We needed another car and I was going to just look for a used Lexus but at this price, it's hard to beat. I'm sure you can find some 2016's available if you're OK with that.

Good Luck

That is a ridiculous price!! I don't think I will be able negotiate that. That's 25% off msrp. Wild. I take it that 31.5 was without taxes and fees?
Topic Author
eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

lthenderson wrote:
eagleeyes wrote: Best price so far seems to 41900. Msrp is 41900. What say he hardcore hagglers? Yes or Nay?
I have never payed at or above MSRP price out the door for any vehicle I've bought. Unlike most people on here, I've found the best negotiating strategy is to go to the actual dealer, talk with an actual salesperson (gasp!) and have my checkbook visible with pen in hand to write a check. When you buy vehicles, a bird in hand (person with money sitting in front of you) is worth 100 in the bush (those filling your email inbox with thousands of mass emails). Because of that, they are willing to knock off more money.

Last summer when we bought our last vehicle, I went into the dealer and sat down with the saleperson (gasp!) and told her what I would give her for the vehicle I had just test drove. She came back with a $3000 higher offer. I said I had given her my top price already. She came back with a lower offer three more times after I repeated that I wasn't going to offer a higher price without looking elsewhere. A half hour later we were at $2500 lower than her initial offer and hit a stalemate so I walked out without the car. They called me two days later and asked me to come back in. I got it for my initial first offer which was $3000 lower. But I had to talk to a salesperson (gasp!).
Will attempt to do this today and see where it goes
alfaspider
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by alfaspider »

eagleeyes wrote:
cmeretire wrote:I just bought a 2016 Avalon Limited (Not 2017) only because:

1. I found the color I wanted available.
2. List price 42300, Paid 31500. If don't have to have a 2017, look for a new 2016, they will negotiate very nicely on those.
3. This also included a Toyota 3000.00 incentive at the time I bought. I don't know if that is still available.

We needed another car and I was going to just look for a used Lexus but at this price, it's hard to beat. I'm sure you can find some 2016's available if you're OK with that.

Good Luck

That is a ridiculous price!! I don't think I will be able negotiate that. That's 25% off msrp. Wild. I take it that 31.5 was without taxes and fees?
Don't get too hung up on the MSRP. Some cars regularly sell for 20% or more off MSRP. Some cars go for over MSRP. It's all about the market for the specific car.
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eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

smackboy1 wrote:
eagleeyes wrote:I am planning on purchasing a 2017 Avalon limited. I have done the bogleheads method and solicited out the door prices from multiple dealers.

Best price so far seems to 41900. Highest price so far is 43180....how does that square with the community?

I am wondering now that I have the OTD price how much harder to go and negotiate in store. Is this a reasonable deal?

For reference. Msrp is 41900. True car average price is 38500 without tax transaction and other fees.
There really isn't enough information for anybody to give an opinion.

How many dealers submitted bids?

6 dealers so far


How many rounds of bidding were there before reaching the lowest price of 41,900?

These were the opening round


What is tax, tags, destination and other fees? Comparing an MSRP and True Car price net of these costs to an OTD price is meaningless. Comparisons need to be apples to apples.
If the email negotiations were done correctly, it should not be possible to negotiate much lower price in person, because at that point there should have been at least 2 or more other dealerships that have dropped out because they cannot match the low bid.

By definition a "good deal" should be significantly below average. An average deal means that half of buyers got a better deal than you did. If done this correctly, the low bid price should be one of the lowest reported on True Car - or even lower than that.
So the great price on true car is 38.5 without all fees. That doesn't seem right. The opening round of bids solicited were below the great price mark
alfaspider
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by alfaspider »

eagleeyes wrote:
smackboy1 wrote:
eagleeyes wrote:I am planning on purchasing a 2017 Avalon limited. I have done the bogleheads method and solicited out the door prices from multiple dealers.

Best price so far seems to 41900. Highest price so far is 43180....how does that square with the community?

I am wondering now that I have the OTD price how much harder to go and negotiate in store. Is this a reasonable deal?

For reference. Msrp is 41900. True car average price is 38500 without tax transaction and other fees.
There really isn't enough information for anybody to give an opinion.

How many dealers submitted bids?

6 dealers so far


How many rounds of bidding were there before reaching the lowest price of 41,900?

These were the opening round


What is tax, tags, destination and other fees? Comparing an MSRP and True Car price net of these costs to an OTD price is meaningless. Comparisons need to be apples to apples.
If the email negotiations were done correctly, it should not be possible to negotiate much lower price in person, because at that point there should have been at least 2 or more other dealerships that have dropped out because they cannot match the low bid.

By definition a "good deal" should be significantly below average. An average deal means that half of buyers got a better deal than you did. If done this correctly, the low bid price should be one of the lowest reported on True Car - or even lower than that.
So the great price on true car is 38.5 without all fees. That doesn't seem right. The opening round of bids solicited were below the great price mark
Truecar used to be a great tool. Now it's just a lead generator for dealerships. Don't put too much stock in it.
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eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

lthenderson wrote:
eagleeyes wrote: Best price so far seems to 41900. Msrp is 41900. What say he hardcore hagglers? Yes or Nay?
I have never payed at or above MSRP price out the door for any vehicle I've bought. Unlike most people on here, I've found the best negotiating strategy is to go to the actual dealer, talk with an actual salesperson (gasp!) and have my checkbook visible with pen in hand to write a check. When you buy vehicles, a bird in hand (person with money sitting in front of you) is worth 100 in the bush (those filling your email inbox with thousands of mass emails). Because of that, they are willing to knock off more money.

Last summer when we bought our last vehicle, I went into the dealer and sat down with the saleperson (gasp!) and told her what I would give her for the vehicle I had just test drove. She came back with a $3000 higher offer. I said I had given her my top price already. She came back with a lower offer three more times after I repeated that I wasn't going to offer a higher price without looking elsewhere. A half hour later we were at $2500 lower than her initial offer and hit a stalemate so I walked out without the car. They called me two days later and asked me to come back in. I got it for my initial first offer which was $3000 lower. But I had to talk to a salesperson (gasp!).
So I went a dealership. Abysmal failure. The salesman was pissed that I had been shopping online and gotten multiple quotes. He then essentially insinuated why I was wasting his time. They did not budge at all. This was the second best offer at 42.8k. He did come down 1k because of an ongoing debate. Out the door price of 41.8k. Sale price of 37.8k. Kbb says that is a fair price but not a great deal. I said no thanks an walked away.

Interestingly enough my wife said my negotiation skills need work. She said once the dealer accused me of not being upfront I yelled at him and was super rude. In fact once he went to talk to his manager he never came back out!! The sales manager came out. I told him directly I was soliciting multiple bids. Here is the number you have to beat etc. all in all a good and fun learning experience. Note to self for next time, don't take the wife
sport
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by sport »

Is the Avalon that much better than a Camry? It seems to cost twice as much.
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eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

Conclusion: I can't outsmart these folks. I'm done buying a new car. Those above who reminded me that I'd be better off considering a 1 or 2 year old Avalon have prevailed. I shall wait for one to appear

Moreover I'm going to get one from carvana or vroom. I don't want to have that lovely dealership experience again. I don't need to squeeze every drop of juice from the turnip.

Thanks all above posters. Appreciate your temperance of my stupidity
ClaycordJCA
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by ClaycordJCA »

I recommend you look at the Lexus 350 or 300h. I purchased the 300h last year during a local dealer's 4th of July sale. It is very quiet. My only complaint is that the car almost seems too big - great for road trips but not so much fun to park. There are a lot more of the Lexus sedans on the road than Avalons. The added supply may mean that Lexus dealers are willing to compete more than Toyota Dealers are on an Avalon. You might want to wait until the Presidents' Day sales since there may be some incentives offered.

Lexus also has a Certified Pre-Owned program. Much greater likelihood of a 350 appearing than an Avalon.
lazydavid
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by lazydavid »

eagleeyes wrote:Interestingly enough my wife said my negotiation skills need work. She said once the dealer accused me of not being upfront I yelled at him and was super rude. In fact once he went to talk to his manager he never came back out!! The sales manager came out. I told him directly I was soliciting multiple bids. Here is the number you have to beat etc. all in all a good and fun learning experience. Note to self for next time, don't take send the wife
Fixed your post :mrgreen:
carolinaman
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by carolinaman »

lazydavid wrote:
eagleeyes wrote:Interestingly enough my wife said my negotiation skills need work. She said once the dealer accused me of not being upfront I yelled at him and was super rude. In fact once he went to talk to his manager he never came back out!! The sales manager came out. I told him directly I was soliciting multiple bids. Here is the number you have to beat etc. all in all a good and fun learning experience. Note to self for next time, don't take send the wife
Fixed your post :mrgreen:
I learned through experience to NOT have my DW with me when negotiating. The salesman try selling her and read her like a book. I cannot effectively negotiate in that scenario. Our last few cars, she and I have tested cars until I know what is acceptable to her and then I pick car/dealer and negotiate without her. This process works much better.
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eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

lazydavid wrote:
eagleeyes wrote:Interestingly enough my wife said my negotiation skills need work. She said once the dealer accused me of not being upfront I yelled at him and was super rude. In fact once he went to talk to his manager he never came back out!! The sales manager came out. I told him directly I was soliciting multiple bids. Here is the number you have to beat etc. all in all a good and fun learning experience. Note to self for next time, don't take send the wife
Fixed your post :mrgreen:

Now that's funny!!!
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eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

carolinaman wrote:
lazydavid wrote:
eagleeyes wrote:Interestingly enough my wife said my negotiation skills need work. She said once the dealer accused me of not being upfront I yelled at him and was super rude. In fact once he went to talk to his manager he never came back out!! The sales manager came out. I told him directly I was soliciting multiple bids. Here is the number you have to beat etc. all in all a good and fun learning experience. Note to self for next time, don't take send the wife
Fixed your post :mrgreen:
I learned through experience to NOT have my DW with me when negotiating. The salesman try selling her and read her like a book. I cannot effectively negotiate in that scenario. Our last few cars, she and I have tested cars until I know what is acceptable to her and then I pick car/dealer and negotiate without her. This process works much better.
Having my 7 month old daughter there didn't help!!!
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sunny_socal
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by sunny_socal »

eagleeyes wrote: So I went a dealership. Abysmal failure. The salesman was pissed that I had been shopping online and gotten multiple quotes. He then essentially insinuated why I was wasting his time. They did not budge at all. This was the second best offer at 42.8k. He did come down 1k because of an ongoing debate. Out the door price of 41.8k. Sale price of 37.8k. Kbb says that is a fair price but not a great deal. I said no thanks an walked away.

Interestingly enough my wife said my negotiation skills need work. She said once the dealer accused me of not being upfront I yelled at him and was super rude. In fact once he went to talk to his manager he never came back out!! The sales manager came out. I told him directly I was soliciting multiple bids. Here is the number you have to beat etc. all in all a good and fun learning experience. Note to self for next time, don't take the wife
LOL. Mistakes?:
- Taking the wife? Maybe. The two of you should agree to a strategy and make it work for you. Try "good cop / bad cop", ie. you could be the one smitten with the car and your wife is the one telling you it's too expensive! :mrgreen:
- Dealer getting pissed. So what? It's all an act, they're paid to either be pissed or be polite depending on the situation. I've walked into dealers with a bid in hand and asked them to beat it. They didn't get pissed, they just told me to take the other offer.
- You being rude. Was that your wife's perception? The sales people aren't my friends, there's no reason to be rude but I would definitely get straight to the point and avoid small talk.
- Walking into the dealer to negotiate could have been a mistake. IME the online bidding war process works very well.

I think you should broaden your search area. When buying trucks some people swear by Dave Smith in ID, they have a process where you fly in, they pick you up at the airport, you buy the truck and then drive home. Their prices are that good. Toyota is a high volume brand, you should have no trouble finding a "good deal." For a good price look at the edmunds forum or find a toyota/avalon forum. Ignore KBB and Truecar.
alfaspider
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by alfaspider »

sunny_socal wrote:
I think you should broaden your search area. When buying trucks some people swear by Dave Smith in ID, they have a process where you fly in, they pick you up at the airport, you buy the truck and then drive home. Their prices are that good. Toyota is a high volume brand, you should have no trouble finding a "good deal." For a good price look at the edmunds forum or find a toyota/avalon forum. Ignore KBB and Truecar.
Yeah, you don't "win" the dealership negotiating game by walking into whatever dealer is near your house and coming up with some brilliant negotiating strategy. Different dealers have different business models, different sales goals, and different inventories. You are best off just getting offers from a wide range of dealerships.
keystone
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by keystone »

sport wrote:Is the Avalon that much better than a Camry? It seems to cost twice as much.
FWIW, per Consumer Reports, one of the cons listed for the Avalon is "Not much roomier or more luxurious than Camry XLE V6."
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lthenderson
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by lthenderson »

eagleeyes wrote:So I went a dealership. Abysmal failure. The salesman was pissed that I had been shopping online and gotten multiple quotes. He then essentially insinuated why I was wasting his time. They did not budge at all. This was the second best offer at 42.8k. He did come down 1k because of an ongoing debate. Out the door price of 41.8k. Sale price of 37.8k. Kbb says that is a fair price but not a great deal. I said no thanks an walked away.
Salesmen have extensive training on sales techniques and you have to remember, the "pissed" act is just another technique and you can't take it personally. Walking away is the best thing to do and either try a different day or a different salesperson. I also look at it this way. So if KBB says another $1000 off (just guessing here because I don't know the the value) would be a great deal but you can't get the salesperson to budge, is it worth loosing sleep over? For me, if I left a $1000 on the table but slept well at night until the next time I had to replace my car, it would probably be worth it. It's called both people leaving a deal happy.
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by lazydavid »

keystone wrote:
sport wrote:Is the Avalon that much better than a Camry? It seems to cost twice as much.
FWIW, per Consumer Reports, one of the cons listed for the Avalon is "Not much roomier or more luxurious than Camry XLE V6."
Then they've shrunk it dramatically (which I don't believe is true). The '00 Avalon my mom used to have was substantially larger and more comfortable than a Camry of its day, or a 2011 or 2012 I rented a few years back.
keystone
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by keystone »

lazydavid wrote: Then they've shrunk it dramatically (which I don't believe is true). The '00 Avalon my mom used to have was substantially larger and more comfortable than a Camry of its day, or a 2011 or 2012 I rented a few years back.

I've sat in a 2001 Avalon and it was most definitely a lot roomier than the equivalent Camry at the time. Maybe the Camry got bigger, the Avalon shrunk, or Consumer Reports is off.
alfaspider
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by alfaspider »

lazydavid wrote:
keystone wrote:
sport wrote:Is the Avalon that much better than a Camry? It seems to cost twice as much.
FWIW, per Consumer Reports, one of the cons listed for the Avalon is "Not much roomier or more luxurious than Camry XLE V6."
Then they've shrunk it dramatically (which I don't believe is true). The '00 Avalon my mom used to have was substantially larger and more comfortable than a Camry of its day, or a 2011 or 2012 I rented a few years back.
The Camry has grown.
S&L1940
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by S&L1940 »

alfaspider wrote: Yeah, you don't "win" the dealership negotiating game by walking into whatever dealer is near your house and coming up with some brilliant negotiating strategy. Different dealers have different business models, different sales goals, and different inventories. You are best off just getting offers from a wide range of dealerships.
If you do not go to the dealership you miss the "let me check with my manager" routine.
once, the salesman pulled out his cell phone and conducted a "conversation" in front of us. the wife and I both thought the "conversation" was really one sided. you need to go to a dealer at least once to look at and perhaps test drive the car; may as well enjoy the song and dance act while you are there. AND, remember, these folks do this multiple times a day; we negotiate once every bunch of years. they are much better at the sales process than we are. convinced that no matter how successful we are there is always money left on the table.
Don't it always seem to go * That you don't know what you've got * Till it's gone
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eagleeyes
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by eagleeyes »

S&L1940 wrote:
alfaspider wrote: Yeah, you don't "win" the dealership negotiating game by walking into whatever dealer is near your house and coming up with some brilliant negotiating strategy. Different dealers have different business models, different sales goals, and different inventories. You are best off just getting offers from a wide range of dealerships.
If you do not go to the dealership you miss the "let me check with my manager" routine.
once, the salesman pulled out his cell phone and conducted a "conversation" in front of us. the wife and I both thought the "conversation" was really one sided. you need to go to a dealer at least once to look at and perhaps test drive the car; may as well enjoy the song and dance act while you are there. AND, remember, these folks do this multiple times a day; we negotiate once every bunch of years. they are much better at the sales process than we are. convinced that no matter how successful we are there is always money left on the table.

Any chance experiences with carvana or vroom ?

Also, I believe this was the wifes perception. I was just being direct. No small talk. I'm in negotiating mode. I didn't want to feel distracted by how nice the salesperson was or how tough the month was, etc. I've heard the song and dance about building relationships and getting your next car business. I just don't care. Cars are commodities. Bought and sold lowest and highest price. Its not personal.

Yes, I may have lost some sleep because my wife thought I was rude. I'm pretty sure I wasn't, but I wasn't gonna take any guff either. Sorry to vent!
TheGreyingDuke
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

celia wrote:Although it will be interesting to see what they quote you, if you don't live in California it won't be a "fair" comparison since California (and a dozen other states) have extra emissions and clean air requirements on cars sold here compared to other states.

http://e360.yale.edu/features/californi ... o_industry :
Nichols: Yes, clearly cars that are manufactured for the California marketplace also get sold outside of California. But we also have 13 states that followed California’s lead automatically. They’ve signed up for the California car program. Those states include all the states in the Northeast plus Oregon and New Mexico. They are going to be requiring that all the cars sold in their states meet California’s standards.
I live in a CARB state (NY), there is no extra charge for meeting the California standard. I can go over to NH (a northeast state not under CARB) and the list price on the vehicle is the same.
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Reubin
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by Reubin »

Save yourself close to half the money and just buy a 2017 Camry LE. They are great cars. Quiet, smooth, roomy and reliable. I've recently bought one and its the best car I've owned in 40 years.
cmeretire
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Re: Please help buying new Avalon limited!

Post by cmeretire »

eagleeyes wrote:
cmeretire wrote:I just bought a 2016 Avalon Limited (Not 2017) only because:

1. I found the color I wanted available.
2. List price 42300, Paid 31500. If don't have to have a 2017, look for a new 2016, they will negotiate very nicely on those.
3. This also included a Toyota 3000.00 incentive at the time I bought. I don't know if that is still available.

We needed another car and I was going to just look for a used Lexus but at this price, it's hard to beat. I'm sure you can find some 2016's available if you're OK with that.

Good Luck

That is a ridiculous price!! I don't think I will be able negotiate that. That's 25% off msrp. Wild. I take it that 31.5 was without taxes and fees?
No, I did have to pay to tax man too. Add about 2K for taxes, tags, etc. Still, it made me buy New this time. Otherwise I would've bought another used Lexus.
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