Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

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lucky3
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Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by lucky3 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:34 pm

Ok, all you computer geeks out there! Recently was infected with a trojan virus that keeps popping up even though I run a malware program daily to remove it...it keeps coming back! I'm running Windows XP which is no longer supported.

Should I have the problem fixed and upgrade to Windows 7 or 10 or, given the price of a new desktop these days, just buy a new machine and keep my monitor?

Lucky3

livesoft
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by livesoft » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:37 pm

You should live a little and just buy new.
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nedsaid
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by nedsaid » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:39 pm

Windows XP for those still running it is a disaster waiting to happen if you do stuff on the internet. Definitely, upgrade your operating system if your laptop can handle it.
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Kenkat
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by Kenkat » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:51 pm

When did you buy your PC and what are its general specs (processor, memory, HD size, monitor size, etc.)?

Most likely, you should just buy a new PC and go ahead and treat yourself to a new monitor as well unless your current monitor is larger than say 19 inches.

munemaker
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by munemaker » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Replace it with a chromebook or chromebox. No more viruses and no need to virus scan.

brad.clarkston
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by brad.clarkston » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:59 pm

It's time for a new replacement.

Buy a new Dell with Win10 x64 Pro and be done with it. No need for 100 different opinions, that's why Dell exists ... for non-IT people.

Dimitri
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by Dimitri » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:14 pm

munemaker wrote:Replace it with a chromebook or chromebox. No more viruses and no need to virus scan.


I'll second that. I bought an Acer Chromebase (all-in-one computer/monitor) two years ago because I didn't want to deal with viruses. Probably one of the best things I've ever bought. I highly recommend looking into buying a Chromexxx (whatever your pleasure). I think you can't go wrong.
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azurekep
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by azurekep » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:06 pm

You should buy a new computer. I don't believe there's anyway to migrate from XP to a later Windows version.

But if it's not a space hog, keep the old computer. You may need Windows for some of your offline programs and the current version of Windows -- Windows 10 -- may be unusable for you unless you nstall a classic shell program.

Also, you can get someone to install one of the popular Linux versions on the old computer, which is another way you can get a traditional desktop interface. There are some lightweight versions that work well on old XP computers. But unless you have a CD/DVD drive, you may have to install Linux via a flashdrive, and XP machines differ on how well they support this process. My XP machine allowed installations only using a flashdrive that was 1 GB in size. :P

danaht
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by danaht » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:39 pm

If your computer was still running XP - then it's probably a relic. You should upgrade the hardware to something newer with Windows 10.

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Watty
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by Watty » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:55 pm

You can get a heck of a computer now for less than $400 and you may even get an extended warranty with some credit cards.

If you are on a real tight budget then there a couple of things you could still do;

1) Format the drive then restore it to the last backup, but I would assume that you don't have a good backup. :oops: . Be sure to learn that lesson too and budget for an external drive for future backups. You can get them for about $50 now.

2) Your internet provider may provide better free antivirus software, or you may find a free 30 day trial trial that might fix it

3) You could wipe the computer and install Linux on it.

The problem though is that it is likely that your power supply and hard disk are both pretty old and prone to failure as they age. You could put time and money into it only to have it die in six months.

When you are shopping for one something to look out for is that there are several ways to connect a monitor now so you would need to make sure that it is comparable with your old monitor. There may be monitor cable adapters that you can use.

There is also a small chance that things like an old printer or scanner will not be supported on your next system so you may want to research that if you are on a real tight budget.

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greg24
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by greg24 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:03 pm

I rarely think an OS upgrade is worth it. I suggest you buy a new machine.

While Chromebooks have less virus issues, there are still Chromebook viruses. They are computers.

I would keep the XP machine around, I find occasional uses for mine.

Jim180
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by Jim180 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:11 pm

I believe just about any virus can be permanently removed from a computer if you use the right software. Don't know what malware program you are using but I would try Malwarebytes first. If you tried that already then you could try one of the best and most thorough I know of and that is VIPRE Rescue. Here is a link to download their software:https://support.threattracksecurity.com/support/solutions/articles/1000070807-how-to-download-and-use-vipre-rescue

VIPRE Rescue takes a very long time to scan your computer but it finds and removes anything that doesn't belong.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:45 pm

Malware Bytes
Avast
Check all installed programs and nuke anything new that you didn't specifically install

Cost = $0

I've run this stuff for years and have none of the problems the other anti virus stuff seems to always come down with.
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PFInterest
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by PFInterest » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:50 pm

It's scary people are still on XP. Go get a new computer!

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Ged
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by Ged » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:18 pm

PFInterest wrote:It's scary people are still on XP. Go get a new computer!


Yes. You probably have ancient hardware which is getting ready to die.

mouses
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by mouses » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:20 pm

Before you ditch XP, be sure the peripherals you want to keep have drivers for whatever system you want to move to. I am still on XP because I have several of the best all-in-ones on the planet, new all-in-ones suck, I do a lot of document creation which includes photos, and there are not drivers for later versions.

brad.clarkston
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by brad.clarkston » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:27 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:Malware Bytes
Avast
Check all installed programs and nuke anything new that you didn't specifically install

Cost = $0

I've run this stuff for years and have none of the problems the other anti virus stuff seems to always come down with.



Windows Defender is a built into Windows 10 it's a anti-virus product no need to install anything else (yes they will tell you you need to do not listen).
Malware Bytes
CCleaner

Cost= $0.

Computers and peripherals are commodities.
A crap HP printer at any box store will cost you $40 and come with ink - and have no compatibility issues with Win10 (green drivers are a grand thing). At that price is you run out of ink in a year and the ink costs $40 donate the printer and by another.

A new mouse-&-keyboard combo on Amazon will cost you $40 and have no compatibility issues with Win10.

All modern cell phones will work fine with it.

mouses
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by mouses » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:52 am

brad.clarkston wrote:
A crap HP printer at any box store will cost you $40 and come with ink - and have no compatibility issues with Win10 (green drivers are a grand thing). At that price is you run out of ink in a year and the ink costs $40 donate the printer and by another.


Thus generating electronic waste. Also, few individuals or places want the crap used printer that needs as much $ in ink as it costs.

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sunny_socal
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by sunny_socal » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:03 am

I highly recommend installing Linux Mint on your old XP machine! And don't run it off the CD, that will be slow - replace the old OS on the hard drive.

Behavior after this upgrade will be very similar to a Chromebook, even better, since you can use the rest of your hard drive for storage. Keep this as your 2nd computer, you'll find that wake/sleep is now much faster than Windows. I have a spare machine like this in the garage.

Get a new Win10 machine with an SSD for regular use. (Actually I recommend a Mac if you don't mind spending the $$$, they are far better than even the best Win10 machine 8-) )

tim1999
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by tim1999 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:09 pm

I'd keep the monitor if it's decent and buy a new computer. I was in a similar situation recently. Got a new basic desktop for under $200. The old one was just so gummed up with crap that it slowed to a crawl and nothing that I did would clean it up and fix it. Said "enough is enough" and trashed it.

brad.clarkston
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by brad.clarkston » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:00 pm

mouses wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:
A crap HP printer at any box store will cost you $40 and come with ink - and have no compatibility issues with Win10 (green drivers are a grand thing). At that price is you run out of ink in a year and the ink costs $40 donate the printer and by another.


Thus generating electronic waste. Also, few individuals or places want the crap used printer that needs as much $ in ink as it costs.


So in general I agree with you but this is 2017 not 1990. That crap printer is still useful to non-profits, private schools, or churches that can get steep discounts on the ink and even if it did go to the dump modern recycling systems would keep the 90% plastic from ever going into a landfill.

My point was that for $40 it isn't worth keeping a 1990 mentality on computer hardware as it is a low priced commodity now. The only reason someone would spend $1k on a computer system has narrowed down to two niches - gaming and video editing with gaming being the winner in that category as video/picture editing software has started to catch up a little.

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Toons
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by Toons » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Upgrade to Windows 10
The computers now are like supercomputers of years ago,,,and
you can get one for 500 bucks. :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

azurekep
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by azurekep » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:47 pm

sunny_socal wrote:I highly recommend installing Linux Mint on your old XP machine! And don't run it off the CD, that will be slow - replace the old OS on the hard drive.


Linux Mint is a great choice, but it depends on the RAM and processor of the machine. My XP machine came with 512 MB RAM. That would support Lubuntu, but not Mint. Mint is prettier but the neighborhood kid down the block could pretty up Lubuntu for the OP. There's even a YouTube video that shows how to make Lubuntu look exactly like Windows XP. :P

If the reference to the CD was to my earlier post, I was just mentioning that installing Linux using an optical drive can be the easiest option. The optical drive on my XP machine broke, so I had to use the USB flashdrive install method. Most XP machines are capable of booting up from a 2 GB flashdrive for installing Linux, and that's all that is needed. In my case, I wasn't able to do that. 1 GB was the max that my BIOS would support. Fortunately, I think my case was pretty unusual.

livesoft
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by livesoft » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:50 pm

What do people think of booting up XP in "safe mode with no networking"?
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azurekep
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by azurekep » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:54 pm

lucky3 wrote:Ok, all you computer geeks out there! Recently was infected with a trojan virus that keeps popping up even though I run a malware program daily to remove it...it keeps coming back! I'm running Windows XP which is no longer supported.

Should I have the problem fixed and upgrade to Windows 7 or 10 or, given the price of a new desktop these days, just buy a new machine and keep my monitor?

Lucky3


It's hard to know why you keep getting the trojan, but you're probably aware there are some innate vulnerabilities in XP. Whether or not you get a new computer, you might find it useful to run Shields Up. XP comes with several ports open that are an invitation to trouble. This little test will show if those ports are open. It's a reputable site run by a guy who is frequently mentioned on this board.

azurekep
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by azurekep » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:55 pm

livesoft wrote:What do people think of booting up XP in "safe mode with no networking"?


It's easier just to turn the network adapter off.

kjvmartin
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by kjvmartin » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:04 pm

For long term, your best dollars would be spent on an Apple product. My church sound booth is still using a 2006 iMac and it runs very well. The upfront cost is a bit higher, but the longevity is better. If you decide to upgrade, the resale is strong.

kjvm

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wander
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by wander » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:15 pm

Windows XP is pretty old. You only need to save the data you need and install clean window 7, 8 or 10. At this time, you should get Windows 10 so you don't have to upgrade it again anytime soon. Your monitor maybe already too old, a new one will make your eyes happier.

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VictoriaF
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:10 pm

brad.clarkston wrote:Buy a new Dell with Win10 x64 Pro and be done with it. No need for 100 different opinions, that's why Dell exists ... for non-IT people.


In the past, I was buying Dell laptops on the Dell web site, using their business offerings. They came with the Professional versions of the Windows OS and less bloatware.

Recently, I was looking into getting a new Win10 laptop. A well configured Dell configured on and purchased from the Dell site is over $2,000. In comparison, an Asus Win10 laptop on Amazon is ~$300. I realize that the quality of the two is different. However, I am wondering if it's worth paying for a new Dell if a much cheaper option may do.

Victoria
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brad.clarkston
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by brad.clarkston » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:32 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:Buy a new Dell with Win10 x64 Pro and be done with it. No need for 100 different opinions, that's why Dell exists ... for non-IT people.


In the past, I was buying Dell laptops on the Dell web site, using their business offerings. They came with the Professional versions of the Windows OS and less bloatware.

Recently, I was looking into getting a new Win10 laptop. A well configured Dell configured on and purchased from the Dell site is over $2,000. In comparison, an Asus Win10 laptop on Amazon is ~$300. I realize that the quality of the two is different. However, I am wondering if it's worth paying for a new Dell if a much cheaper option may do.

Victoria


Yea laptops are a slightly different beast. I was thinking along the lines of:

a Dell Inspiron Desktop, Core I-3 CPU, 8Gig's memory, Win10Pro = $449.99 (-$50 if you only go with Win10 Home).
{ http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productd ... 50-desktop }.
I wouldn't buy extra memory, monitors, or keyboard/mice from Dell that's where the markup is. Buy that kind of stuff from Amazon/Newegg.

For a Dell laptop I'd start looking at the Dell Inspiron Core I-5 selection starting at $750. BUT the trick with laptops is it doesn't really matter the name brand anymore it's about the price point. They are all going to be about the same hardware for the price points ($300 - $600 - $1000 - $2000). The difference is usually the amount of bloatware that you get.

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VictoriaF
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:50 pm

wander wrote:Windows XP is pretty old. You only need to save the data you need and install clean window 7, 8 or 10.


Windows XP has many issues, but blaming people for still using it is blaming the victim. The cost of a computer is a sum of the system cost and the operating cost. For business systems, the breakdown is 30% CAPEX (capital expenses) and 70% OPEX (operating expenses). For personal systems, it's probably similar. The main issue with upgrading is not the cost of a new box, but all the things you have to do with it.

When you use a computer, you develop habits and shortcuts for using various programs. You have a number of free and paid-for programs, and you don't remember all of them until you have to use one. Migration to a new computer is a long process of loading programs into the new computer, ensuring that they work properly, and developing new working habits.

I have recently migrated from Windows XP to Windows 7. I used XP very carefully and never had any malware. The migration was prompted by the need for the features that I could not get in XP. When migrating to Win 7, initial actions included installations of an email client and MS Office. The former is time consuming, the latter may require additional spending and reconciling the compatibility of files created with the old and new Office. I also needed to configure my browsers the way it was done on my old machine and to get a new AV.

I am enjoying the speed and features of my new Win 7 machine, but the migration was not trivial.

Victoria
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VictoriaF
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:07 pm

brad.clarkston wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:Buy a new Dell with Win10 x64 Pro and be done with it. No need for 100 different opinions, that's why Dell exists ... for non-IT people.


In the past, I was buying Dell laptops on the Dell web site, using their business offerings. They came with the Professional versions of the Windows OS and less bloatware.

Recently, I was looking into getting a new Win10 laptop. A well configured Dell configured on and purchased from the Dell site is over $2,000. In comparison, an Asus Win10 laptop on Amazon is ~$300. I realize that the quality of the two is different. However, I am wondering if it's worth paying for a new Dell if a much cheaper option may do.

Victoria


Yea laptops are a slightly different beast. I was thinking along the lines of:

a Dell Inspiron Desktop, Core I-3 CPU, 8Gig's memory, Win10Pro = $449.99 (-$50 if you only go with Win10 Home).
{ http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productd ... 50-desktop }.
I wouldn't buy extra memory, monitors, or keyboard/mice from Dell that's where the markup is. Buy that kind of stuff from Amazon/Newegg.

For a Dell laptop I'd start looking at the Dell Inspiron Core I-5 selection starting at $750. BUT the trick with laptops is it doesn't really matter the name brand anymore it's about the price point. They are all going to be about the same hardware for the price points ($300 - $600 - $1000 - $2000). The difference is usually the amount of bloatware that you get.


Thank you, Brad,

I will check out the Inspirion you linked.

As I mentioned above, I have just migrated to Win 7, and it seems to serve me well for now. But I anticipate having to migrate to Win 10 in near future.

In November, I priced several Dell computers, and my favorite was Precision 15 5000 Series (5510) for the total cost of $1,840.90, with features as follows:
    - Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-6820HQ (Quad Core 2.70GHz, 3.60GHz Turbo, 8MB 45W, w/Intel HD Graphics 530)
    - Operating System: Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit
    - Video Card: Nvidia® Quadro® M1000M w/2GB GDDR5
    - LCD: 15.6" UltraSharp™ FHD IPS (1920x1080) Wide View Anti-Glare LED-backlit with Camera and Microphone
    - Memory: 32GB, DDR4-2133MHz SDRAM, 2 DIMMS, Non-ECC

I agree with you about not buying any peripherals from Dell. I was just looking for a quality laptop, and the price was rather high.

Thanks again,
Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

alfaspider
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by alfaspider » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:17 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:Buy a new Dell with Win10 x64 Pro and be done with it. No need for 100 different opinions, that's why Dell exists ... for non-IT people.


In the past, I was buying Dell laptops on the Dell web site, using their business offerings. They came with the Professional versions of the Windows OS and less bloatware.

Recently, I was looking into getting a new Win10 laptop. A well configured Dell configured on and purchased from the Dell site is over $2,000. In comparison, an Asus Win10 laptop on Amazon is ~$300. I realize that the quality of the two is different. However, I am wondering if it's worth paying for a new Dell if a much cheaper option may do.

Victoria


Yea laptops are a slightly different beast. I was thinking along the lines of:

a Dell Inspiron Desktop, Core I-3 CPU, 8Gig's memory, Win10Pro = $449.99 (-$50 if you only go with Win10 Home).
{ http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productd ... 50-desktop }.
I wouldn't buy extra memory, monitors, or keyboard/mice from Dell that's where the markup is. Buy that kind of stuff from Amazon/Newegg.

For a Dell laptop I'd start looking at the Dell Inspiron Core I-5 selection starting at $750. BUT the trick with laptops is it doesn't really matter the name brand anymore it's about the price point. They are all going to be about the same hardware for the price points ($300 - $600 - $1000 - $2000). The difference is usually the amount of bloatware that you get.


Thank you, Brad,

I will check out the Inspirion you linked.

As I mentioned above, I have just migrated to Win 7, and it seems to serve me well for now. But I anticipate having to migrate to Win 10 in near future.

In November, I priced several Dell computers, and my favorite was Precision 15 5000 Series (5510) for the total cost of $1,840.90, with features as follows:
    - Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-6820HQ (Quad Core 2.70GHz, 3.60GHz Turbo, 8MB 45W, w/Intel HD Graphics 530)
    - Operating System: Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit
    - Video Card: Nvidia® Quadro® M1000M w/2GB GDDR5
    - LCD: 15.6" UltraSharp™ FHD IPS (1920x1080) Wide View Anti-Glare LED-backlit with Camera and Microphone
    - Memory: 32GB, DDR4-2133MHz SDRAM, 2 DIMMS, Non-ECC

I agree with you about not buying any peripherals from Dell. I was just looking for a quality laptop, and the price was rather high.

Thanks again,
Victoria


You do not need features like a Quadro video card (a very expensive item) or 32GB of memory unless you have specialized professional uses for the machine.

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VictoriaF
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:28 pm

alfaspider wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:Buy a new Dell with Win10 x64 Pro and be done with it. No need for 100 different opinions, that's why Dell exists ... for non-IT people.


In the past, I was buying Dell laptops on the Dell web site, using their business offerings. They came with the Professional versions of the Windows OS and less bloatware.

Recently, I was looking into getting a new Win10 laptop. A well configured Dell configured on and purchased from the Dell site is over $2,000. In comparison, an Asus Win10 laptop on Amazon is ~$300. I realize that the quality of the two is different. However, I am wondering if it's worth paying for a new Dell if a much cheaper option may do.

Victoria


Yea laptops are a slightly different beast. I was thinking along the lines of:

a Dell Inspiron Desktop, Core I-3 CPU, 8Gig's memory, Win10Pro = $449.99 (-$50 if you only go with Win10 Home).
{ http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productd ... 50-desktop }.
I wouldn't buy extra memory, monitors, or keyboard/mice from Dell that's where the markup is. Buy that kind of stuff from Amazon/Newegg.

For a Dell laptop I'd start looking at the Dell Inspiron Core I-5 selection starting at $750. BUT the trick with laptops is it doesn't really matter the name brand anymore it's about the price point. They are all going to be about the same hardware for the price points ($300 - $600 - $1000 - $2000). The difference is usually the amount of bloatware that you get.


Thank you, Brad,

I will check out the Inspirion you linked.

As I mentioned above, I have just migrated to Win 7, and it seems to serve me well for now. But I anticipate having to migrate to Win 10 in near future.

In November, I priced several Dell computers, and my favorite was Precision 15 5000 Series (5510) for the total cost of $1,840.90, with features as follows:
    - Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-6820HQ (Quad Core 2.70GHz, 3.60GHz Turbo, 8MB 45W, w/Intel HD Graphics 530)
    - Operating System: Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit
    - Video Card: Nvidia® Quadro® M1000M w/2GB GDDR5
    - LCD: 15.6" UltraSharp™ FHD IPS (1920x1080) Wide View Anti-Glare LED-backlit with Camera and Microphone
    - Memory: 32GB, DDR4-2133MHz SDRAM, 2 DIMMS, Non-ECC

I agree with you about not buying any peripherals from Dell. I was just looking for a quality laptop, and the price was rather high.

Thanks again,
Victoria


You do not need features like a Quadro video card (a very expensive item) or 32GB of memory unless you have specialized professional uses for the machine.


After I posted the message above, I decided to check the Dell web site for how much my configuration would cost today. The total price is still about the same. As for the features:
    - Video card: Nvidia® Quadro® M1000M w/2GB GDDR5 - comes with the laptop, with no alternatives
    - Memory: I could get 16GB and save $157.86, or 8GB and save $259.07, but when buying an expensive laptop it seems to make sense to have it as fast as is currently available
    - Hard drive: I chose 256GB 2.5 inch SATA Class 20 Solid State Drive, but could save $120.72 by getting 1TB 2.5 inch 5400 rpm SATA Hard Drive. - Here, too, I thought that when going through all the trouble it would make sense to get SSD.

If I used Dell's defaults and did not chose better Memory and Hard Drive, I would have saved less than $400, and the total cost would still be ~$1,500.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

brad.clarkston
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by brad.clarkston » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:34 pm

alfaspider wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
brad.clarkston wrote:Buy a new Dell with Win10 x64 Pro and be done with it. No need for 100 different opinions, that's why Dell exists ... for non-IT people.


In the past, I was buying Dell laptops on the Dell web site, using their business offerings. They came with the Professional versions of the Windows OS and less bloatware.

Recently, I was looking into getting a new Win10 laptop. A well configured Dell configured on and purchased from the Dell site is over $2,000. In comparison, an Asus Win10 laptop on Amazon is ~$300. I realize that the quality of the two is different. However, I am wondering if it's worth paying for a new Dell if a much cheaper option may do.

Victoria


Yea laptops are a slightly different beast. I was thinking along the lines of:

a Dell Inspiron Desktop, Core I-3 CPU, 8Gig's memory, Win10Pro = $449.99 (-$50 if you only go with Win10 Home).
{ http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productd ... 50-desktop }.
I wouldn't buy extra memory, monitors, or keyboard/mice from Dell that's where the markup is. Buy that kind of stuff from Amazon/Newegg.

For a Dell laptop I'd start looking at the Dell Inspiron Core I-5 selection starting at $750. BUT the trick with laptops is it doesn't really matter the name brand anymore it's about the price point. They are all going to be about the same hardware for the price points ($300 - $600 - $1000 - $2000). The difference is usually the amount of bloatware that you get.


Thank you, Brad,

I will check out the Inspirion you linked.

As I mentioned above, I have just migrated to Win 7, and it seems to serve me well for now. But I anticipate having to migrate to Win 10 in near future.

In November, I priced several Dell computers, and my favorite was Precision 15 5000 Series (5510) for the total cost of $1,840.90, with features as follows:
    - Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-6820HQ (Quad Core 2.70GHz, 3.60GHz Turbo, 8MB 45W, w/Intel HD Graphics 530)
    - Operating System: Windows 10 Pro, 64-bit
    - Video Card: Nvidia® Quadro® M1000M w/2GB GDDR5
    - LCD: 15.6" UltraSharp™ FHD IPS (1920x1080) Wide View Anti-Glare LED-backlit with Camera and Microphone
    - Memory: 32GB, DDR4-2133MHz SDRAM, 2 DIMMS, Non-ECC

I agree with you about not buying any peripherals from Dell. I was just looking for a quality laptop, and the price was rather high.

Thanks again,
Victoria


You do not need features like a Quadro video card (a very expensive item) or 32GB of memory unless you have specialized professional uses for the machine.


Usually not even then. The only reason I would buy a I-7 processor is for gaming that's the only type of software that pushes modern hardware at all. My son has a I-7 becouse he's a serious steam player (I custom built it for cost) verses my computer which I built for $300. If I want to play a game I power up my X-Box One but everything else works fine on it (video/picture editing, netflix, etc)

The one caveat I would add to laptops is the video card. That's the one thing your never going to be able to change out for any brand name. I would be happy buying a laptop with only 8GB of memory if it is up gradable but I'll spend a bit more to get a real GPU. I spent $1k on my wife's Toshiba laptop just for the graphics card becouse she like to have 1MILlon tabs open in Firefox with 3 or 4 spreadsheets at any given time.

The only reason I went with Toshiba was becouse of a major pre-Christmas deal.

alfaspider
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by alfaspider » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:37 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
If I used Dell's defaults and did not chose better Memory and Hard Drive, I would have saved less than $400, and the total cost would still be ~$1,500.

Victoria


I really don't think you need the features of the precision laptop line. They are "mobile workstations", which means they are designed for professional applications like computer aided design. The average person isn't even going to notice the difference between a Core i5, 32 or 8gb of ram, or the type of video card in regular day-to-day computing. It's only meaningful if it means the computer renders your design in 5 minutes instead of 10, not for regular home and office use.

The XPS line is probably much more appropriate for regular use, which starts around $1,200- even that is higher end than most need, but it will have good fit and finish. I would also configure it with a solid state drive. The vast majority of people who are not archiving a lot of video are not going to fill up a hard drive these days, but they will notice the difference between a solid state drive and a traditional hard drive in terms of drastically reduced startup and application load time.

Besides Dell, you can also buy laptops from Microsoft with the Microsoft "signature edition" operating system, which will provide a bloatware free operating system similar to what Dell's business offering provide. I bought an ASUS laptop with a core i5 and solid state drive for my spouse from Microsoft last year for $600 that it still speedy and flawless, and has great fit and finish.

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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:21 pm

alfaspider wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
If I used Dell's defaults and did not chose better Memory and Hard Drive, I would have saved less than $400, and the total cost would still be ~$1,500.

Victoria


I really don't think you need the features of the precision laptop line. They are "mobile workstations", which means they are designed for professional applications like computer aided design. The average person isn't even going to notice the difference between a Core i5, 32 or 8gb of ram, or the type of video card in regular day-to-day computing. It's only meaningful if it means the computer renders your design in 5 minutes instead of 10, not for regular home and office use.

The XPS line is probably much more appropriate for regular use, which starts around $1,200- even that is higher end than most need, but it will have good fit and finish. I would also configure it with a solid state drive. The vast majority of people who are not archiving a lot of video are not going to fill up a hard drive these days, but they will notice the difference between a solid state drive and a traditional hard drive in terms of drastically reduced startup and application load time.


Thank you, alfaspider,

I checked Dell XPS Business laptops, with 15" screen size and Solid State Drive (SSD). Prices range from $1,450 to $1,750. At $1,450, the price is very close to that of Precision, and I would get similar features. I noticed that XPS comes with a 30-day Windows Office trial and McAfee neither of which I want. By contrast, Precision allows you to exclude Office and McAfee.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

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VictoriaF
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new?

Post by VictoriaF » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:44 pm

alfaspider wrote:Besides Dell, you can also buy laptops from Microsoft with the Microsoft "signature edition" operating system, which will provide a bloatware free operating system similar to what Dell's business offering provide. I bought an ASUS laptop with a core i5 and solid state drive for my spouse from Microsoft last year for $600 that it still speedy and flawless, and has great fit and finish.


I was not aware of the Microsoft Signature Edition option and after searching for it, found laptops here:
https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/ms ... g&filters=

It looks good, thanks!

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

rec7
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by rec7 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:33 pm

I would try to put linux mint on it. It should work good. I just put windows 10 on a 2007 computer and it works ok. I had linux mint on it but liked windows 10 better so I put that on it.
Disclaimer: You might lose money doing anything I say. Although that was not my intent. | Favorite song: Sometimes He Whispers Jay Parrack

aqan
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by aqan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:39 pm

sooner or later you'll need to buy a new one.. this seems like an appropriate time to me.
BTW I'd install windows 10 or ubuntu or other flavors of linux and use it for extra curricular activities ;)

try to keep the new computer exclusively for banking, email type of purposes.

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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by beastykato » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:51 pm

Holy cow! All these recommendations for Linux and stuff for a guy that doesn't know much about computers is crazy IMO. I'm well versed in building my own desktops and I personally do not recommend Linux. It is stable and secure and uses less resources than Windows, but it has a major learning curve. Even the "user-friendly" versions force someone to learn a lot of stuff to really be efficient. Linux sometimes doesn't recognize your hardware, you have to navigate into websites to find the drivers sometimes when the Windows/Apple drivers are front and center, you can't use a lot of games and applications unless they are coded for Linux or you have to use an emulator that kills the performance.

Yes, there is usually alternative software that will work fine on Linux, but it's still more work to search and find it and then learn to use it. This is especially evident if you're in a profession that uses Windows/Apple based software regularly and you're the only guy in the office using that Linux software.

As for what to buy as some have said you probably don't need that $1800 laptop for your needs. What are you going to be doing? Browsing the web? Gaming? Work?

You can get an excellent laptop for $500 that will serve your needs and if you go the AMD route a $500 laptop with dual-graphics will even allow you to play most games on low-mid settings. For basic use a simple processor and 8gb ram is more than enough, splurge for an solid-state hard drive for speed and you're good. Only spend the extra on a machine with a good graphics card if you need to or go for the cheap AMD APU's.

You're better off buying a new $400-600 laptop every couple years than spending $1800 on one now.

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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by azurekep » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:50 pm

beastykato wrote:Holy cow! All these recommendations for Linux and stuff for a guy that doesn't know much about computers is crazy IMO. I'm well versed in building my own desktops and I personally do not recommend Linux. It is stable and secure and uses less resources than Windows, but it has a major learning curve.


I keep reading the posts about how Linux is "hard" and I just don't see it. As long as a person just wants a browser, email program and word processor, they should have no trouble at all. And that's all that a lot of people want.

For the sake of time tho it makes sense to have somebody else install the OS and set up the panel, wallpaper and theme the way the user wants it. After that, it's pretty much autopilot.

I have some elderly people on Lubuntu and plan on putting others on it. Their comment? It's fast!
Last edited by azurekep on Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

inbox788
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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by inbox788 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:50 pm

beastykato wrote:Holy cow! All these recommendations for Linux and stuff for a guy that doesn't know much about computers is crazy IMO. I'm well versed in building my own desktops and I personally do not recommend Linux. It is stable and secure and uses less resources than Windows, but it has a major learning curve. Even the "user-friendly" versions force someone to learn a lot of stuff to really be efficient. Linux sometimes doesn't recognize your hardware, you have to navigate into websites to find the drivers sometimes when the Windows/Apple drivers are front and center, you can't use a lot of games and applications unless they are coded for Linux or you have to use an emulator that kills the performance.

It's crazy and it's not. Depends on what the user is going to be doing. If you expect the users to rebuild the kernel, then yes, it's a bit challenging. But if all they're doing is what they need on a Chromebook, then some linux distributions are nearly turnkey. Once loaded, you can load your browser and be done with it, while with windows, you have other issues.

Coming from Windows XP, Windows 10 will have a learning curve, so this is a good time to switch. I think someone mentioned loading mint linux on the current XP system, and that's a good option if it meets your needs. Or see if a chromebook will work for your. But if you depend on any specific windows programs, then you're pretty much stuck with it.

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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by azurekep » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:02 pm

I see the discussion on Dell desktops and thought I'd report my experiences.

I bot two 15" Insipirons at Christmas - one with 4 GB RAM, the other at 6 GB RAM. They both cost around $240 on sale. They are low-end models but suit my purposes and run Linux and Virtual Machines quite fast.

One thing I noted after buying these laptops is that screen technologies have changed. My 10-year-old laptiop, which I'm typing on right now, has what was known as an LCD display. The two Dell laptops have "backlit LED" displays. They are much bluer in color and extremely bright, with a bright-bright white that washes everything out. II had to make numerous changes in brightness, contrast, gamma (gamma was especially important) as well as changing the color of the Win 10 folders background using the registry. I also installed f.lux to change the diurnal color temperature. The screens are still blueish compared to the older screen but they're no longer burning my retina. Just thought I'd mention it. Apparently no one else is bothered by it since both Dell models got good reviews.

The moral of the story is that buying a new computer after many years can have many good surprises in terms of technology, but some things are a bit more questionable.

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Re: Upgrade or just buy new? [Computer]

Post by rec7 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:01 pm

beastykato wrote:Holy cow! All these recommendations for Linux and stuff for a guy that doesn't know much about computers is crazy IMO. I'm well versed in building my own desktops and I personally do not recommend Linux. It is stable and secure and uses less resources than Windows, but it has a major learning curve.


I am no pro but thought it was easy to install linux mint. There were a few little things I had to look up later when I was using it but not many. I think windows 10 is better if you don't mind spending the money. I think windows runs smoother. But for free linux is no slouch. This is a very good version of linux mint https://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=222 it also comes in 32 bit https://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=221
Disclaimer: You might lose money doing anything I say. Although that was not my intent. | Favorite song: Sometimes He Whispers Jay Parrack

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