Grocery cart rolls into side of car, dent, scratched

[dziuniek]

I think this is just a math problem.

Local ShopRite will deliver for 15bucks.

15 x once per week x 52 weeks = $780 (Annual Cost of Delivery)

Now figure out how many dings you get per year as well as their average repair cost. (Annual Cost of Bodywork)

Pick your poison.

Huh.

My guess is delivery might be cheaper in some places.
Places where folks really can't drive.

Like Massachusetts .

[miamivice]

From a liability standpoint, I think the grocer is wrong.

Say the grocery cart did far worse damage, like suppose it killed someone. (Not sure HOW that could have happened but let's say it did.) And let's say the cart was abandonded my a mentally-ill transiet. Would that transient be responsible for the cart getting away and killing someone? No. The mentally ill person would likely be unaware the consequences of the actions.

Who would be responsible? Well, the manufacturer of the cart theoretically might be cupable. I suppose that the manufacturer could develop auto-locking brakes that prevent the cart from moving unless someone is holding on.

The owner of the cart (the store) would also be liable because they could take actions to prevent the carts from rolling too care (i.e., installing cart bumps) but chose not to.

A simple sign would not absolve them of liability. In fact, it might increase their liability because it proves they knew of a potential issue but did nothing to resolve it.

However, this is all nonsense in the case of a cart hitting a car. I would say have it repaired, and buy comprehensive insurance to cover this next time.

[skepticalobserver]

Everytime I go to the market and see carts hither and yon in the lot (there's no cage for returns) I think to myself: someday a wayward cart will intersect with a vehicle and a pedestrian and a tragedy will ensue. C'mon, you don't think the owner of a supermarket has a duty of care to customers and vigilantly police the lot? Would such an incident be unforeseen?

[orca91]

Say the grocery cart did far worse damage, like suppose it killed someone. (Not sure HOW that could have happened but let's say it did.) And let's say the cart was abandonded my a mentally-ill transiet. Would that transient be responsible for the cart getting away and killing someone? No. The mentally ill person would likely be unaware the consequences of the actions.

Who would be responsible? Well, the manufacturer of the cart theoretically might be cupable. I suppose that the manufacturer could develop auto-locking brakes that prevent the cart from moving unless someone is holding on.

The owner of the cart (the store) would also be liable because they could take actions to prevent the carts from rolling too care (i.e., installing cart bumps) but chose not to.

A simple sign would not absolve them of liability. In fact, it might increase their liability because it proves they knew of a potential issue but did nothing to resolve it.

However, this is all nonsense in the case of a cart hitting a car. I would say have it repaired, and buy comprehensive insurance to cover this next time.

Let's not say all that. Because, I agree that is all nonsense.

This thread is getting silly "what if"ing it to death and trying to find some way to blame it on the store by some. How about, sometimes accidents happen...

[DireWolf]

From a liability standpoint, I think the grocer is wrong.

Say the grocery cart did far worse damage, like suppose it killed someone. (Not sure HOW that could have happened but let's say it did.) And let's say the cart was abandonded my a mentally-ill transiet. Would that transient be responsible for the cart getting away and killing someone? No. The mentally ill person would likely be unaware the consequences of the actions.

Who would be responsible? Well, the manufacturer of the cart theoretically might be cupable. I suppose that the manufacturer could develop auto-locking brakes that prevent the cart from moving unless someone is holding on.

The owner of the cart (the store) would also be liable because they could take actions to prevent the carts from rolling too care (i.e., installing cart bumps) but chose not to.

A simple sign would not absolve them of liability. In fact, it might increase their liability because it proves they knew of a potential issue but did nothing to resolve it.

However, this is all nonsense in the case of a cart hitting a car. I would say have it repaired, and buy comprehensive insurance to cover this next time.

Only a lawyer could come up with something this asinine.

[randomguy]

I'm so sorry to hear that. What a terrible thing to happen, especially right around Christmas.

I doubt that the grocery store would be much help, and it's unlikely you'll track down the scumbag that did this.

I would take the car to a reputable body shop for an estimate (call high end auto dealers in your area and ask them where they send their cars for body work). Then decide whether it's worth filing an insurance claim. Hit and run damage to a parked car is usually covered by comprehensive coverage.

Even the best body shops can't fix it perfectly. But with time you will probably stop noticing.

you have lived a charmed life, you have much to be thankful for.

???

I am pretty sure the point is that a door ding is a pretty minor annoyance that can be fixed for a minor amount of money. Some people like to reserve terrible for things like death, serious illness, loss of jobs, and so on.

When parking it is up to you to protect yourself. Parking at the end of a slope with no cars around to protect you is taking your chances. You are a lot better parking closer to the store where the other cars will protect you. Granted then you have to take on people hitting you with a door risk. Ideally you want a slot where a curbs protect you but there are not than many of them in most lots.

[reggiesimpson]

Just went thru the exact same scenario last month. Unless you can prove one of their employees did it you are out of luck. Shop elsewhere.

[cheese_breath]

Everytime I go to the market and see carts hither and yon in the lot (there's no cage for returns) I think to myself: someday a wayward cart will intersect with a vehicle and a pedestrian and a tragedy will ensue. C'mon, you don't think the owner of a supermarket has a duty of care to customers and vigilantly police the lot? Would such an incident be unforeseen?

OP said here were cart racks in the parking lot. Should supermarket owners create shopping cart police forces to ensure every shopper puts his or her cart in the rack? Or maybe they shouldn't allow the carts outside the store? That would go over well, I'm sure.

[goingup]

For the record, I have no idea what a J-A is, but I assure you that I'm not one!

If your name isn't Jack you're not.

I'm not a Jack.

[Dan999]

Update and conclusion
I got an estimate for the damage and it involved body work. Amount $627.
I called the regional chains' headquarters and spoke to the President's assistant and asked him he do the right thing and pay for the repairs to my car.
His secretary called back and he agreed to pay for it.
Nice man and good PR.
Nothing ventured nothing gained
Dan999

[wtjbatman]

And now the cost of milk at that regional chain has gone up by a penny to pay for your damaged vehicle. And expected future costs due to this new precedent of paying for the destruction caused daily by shopping carts at their stores.

PR gain is non-existent due to not knowing the name of said grocery chain.

[reriodan]

Wow, this thread really shows how petty some people can be.

[toofache32]

Thanks for contributing to higher grocery costs for the rest of us.

[cherijoh]

Everytime I go to the market and see carts hither and yon in the lot (there's no cage for returns) I think to myself: someday a wayward cart will intersect with a vehicle and a pedestrian and a tragedy will ensue. C'mon, you don't think the owner of a supermarket has a duty of care to customers and vigilantly police the lot? Would such an incident be unforeseen?

The OP did not say that there were no shopping cart carrels to return the carts. The grocery store I visit most often must have at least 10 return areas in their parking lot. The store will also send someone out with you to put your groceries into your car and they frequently send someone out to gather up the carts and bring them back into the store. The cart carrels are almost always empty except around dinner time when the store gets very busy.

And yet there are always lazy so-and-sos who leave their carts blocking parking spaces when the cart return is 100 yards or less away from their car. So I definitely would not hold my grocery store liable if this happened to me.

[Earl Lemongrab]

And yet there are always lazy so-and-sos who leave their carts blocking parking spaces when the cart return is 100 yards or less away from their car.

100 yards? That's the length of a football field (American). I wouldn't schlep a cart that far either. My store has the corrals about every 30 feet or so.

[cherijoh]

And yet there are always lazy so-and-sos who leave their carts blocking parking spaces when the cart return is 100 yards or less away from their car.

100 yards? That's the length of a football field (American). I wouldn't schlep a cart that far either. My store has the corrals about every 30 feet or so.

I probably should have said 50 yards rather than 100. But you are way off in the other direction. A standard parking space is 9 feet wide. So you are saying that every fourth space is a cart corral at your store - I kind of doubt that.

[G12]

Very similar thing happened to a friend at Target. He alerted the manager. They reviewed the video, confirmed damage was done by a cart and the store paid for the entire cost of the repair. Large chains usually have insurance for this very sort of thing.

Same thing happened at a shared lot of a Target and a gym my wife was working out at roughly 12 years ago. Massive parking lot, store and gym were diagonally facing, gym at the bottom of a steep slope, the cart evidently traveled a very long way from the top of the lot. My wife comes out and finds the cart lying on its side and a very deep dent in the side of her 2 week old car. Target covered the deductible and our auto coverage covered the rest. Why should someone "suck it up" and potentially pay thousands due to some lazy inconsiderate J-A's actions. No way it was the first or last time it happened in that lot, either.

[surfstar]

Sounds like someone needs to park their beater in a busy lot and start cashing in!

[Earl Lemongrab]

I probably should have said 50 yards rather than 100. But you are way off in the other direction. A standard parking space is 9 feet wide. So you are saying that every fourth space is a cart corral at your store - I kind of doubt that.

The distance is about right. They stagger them in the rows, so you have to count the ones across the driving lane as well.

[Mudpuppy]

This is why I try to park next to the cart corral / return when possible. It protects the car from dings on that side and there's fewer loose carts roaming nearby since most people that close to the corral return the carts to the corral.

[Bfwolf]

Update and conclusion
I got an estimate for the damage and it involved body work. Amount $627.
I called the regional chains' headquarters and spoke to the President's assistant and asked him he do the right thing and pay for the repairs to my car.
His secretary called back and he agreed to pay for it.
Nice man and good PR.
Nothing ventured nothing gained
Dan999

Congratulations on such a satisfactory conclusion! It would certainly be nice if you attempted to turn this into PR that's more valuable than just your good will. Some suggestions:

1) Post the name of the supermarket here. You'll get dozens of people seeing what a nice company they are.

2) If you're on social media, make a post talking about what happened and how great it was for the company to cover this. Tag the supermarket's profile.

3) If you really want to go over the top, send a letter to the editor of your local paper saying how nice it was of the company to do this during Christmas time, and how during an age when companies seem to be getting more and more skimpy on customer service, this company is cutting you a very nice check when they really didn't have to. Maybe they'll print it and get thousands of viewers.

[mesaverde]

OP- recently someone sideswiped my 3 year old car in my work parking garage, leaving a significant 3-4 inch scratch.
I recommend using your time to get some new paint here: http://www.paintscratch.com/
and fix it yourself. That's what I did. If you order the paint correctly, it will match your vehicle's paint perfectly.

[lthenderson]

This is why I try to park next to the cart corral / return when possible. It protects the car from dings on that side and there's fewer loose carts roaming nearby since most people that close to the corral return the carts to the corral.

Not too close though. I once watched a lady pushing her empty cart through the gap between a car and a cart corral on her way to return the cart. It didn't quite fit but she MADE it work. I noted her license plate number and stuck it on the windshield of the car that got scratched.

[pshonore]

Most Aldi's and a few other local stores stores seem to have solved this problem. All their carts are located in a central location and chained together. If you want a cart, you put a quarter in the handle slot and the last cart is released. When you're done shopping, you return the cart to the rack and get your quarter back. There are seldom any loose carts in that lot. And it also frees up a staff member from gathering carts every hour or so, thereby reducing expenses.

[BW1985]

This is why I try to park next to the cart corral / return when possible. It protects the car from dings on that side and there's fewer loose carts roaming nearby since most people that close to the corral return the carts to the corral.

Not too close though. I once watched a lady pushing her empty cart through the gap between a car and a cart corral on her way to return the cart. It didn't quite fit but she MADE it work. I noted her license plate number and stuck it on the windshield of the car that got scratched.

Wow. This is why I park far away and walk. Some people, I tell ya.

[goingup]

Update and conclusion
I got an estimate for the damage and it involved body work. Amount $627.
I called the regional chains' headquarters and spoke to the President's assistant and asked him he do the right thing and pay for the repairs to my car.
His secretary called back and he agreed to pay for it.
Nice man and good PR.
Nothing ventured nothing gained
Dan999

Dan999-
I'm pretty impressed. I thought there was no chance the grocery chain would pay for the repairs. You must have handled this quite adeptly to elicit this outcome.

[ponyboy]

#firstworldproblems

[Loik098]

Thanks for contributing to higher grocery costs for the rest of us.

+1. I equate this activity to frivolous lawsuits tying up our courts. "I'm suing because no one told me coffee is hot."

Since dealing with these sort of issues is part of my job, I'll let you in on how this works:

If you go high enough in a large chain and bug enough people about an issue, you'll eventually get someone to give you money to make you go away....unless your issue is so absurd that it borders on stupidity. But don't be fooled: it has nothing to do with your "negotiation skills" but more to do with your "pestering skills", and ultimately, the cost of the time spent dealing with you.

My time is spent not only on listening to you drone on and on, but on making calls, looking at video, and documenting your case. But if I don't resolve the issue to your satisfaction, I will then have to take more of my time explaining to my boss what happened when you try to call him instead. My boss might agree with me that you're an idiot, but now you're wasting his time, too, and he has to follow the same steps I did. At some point, the profit potential from doing our other work is more valuable than spending time on you, so it becomes simple math, and you get your money. While it's easy for us to give away the company's money because we have pre-established "authorized" limits, it's sad because we know who really paid you....other customers. And no, we don't really have PR on our minds, because we know most folks have issues that won't matter much to news outlets anyway, and most people don't have a big enough social media footprint for us to care. (Of course, the exception to this would be if my company chose to actively resolve issues via social media...then you might).

Those of us who deal with this kind of thing are certainly polite/pleasant (we are paid to do a job, after all), but don't think for a minute we have "the Christmas spirit" on our minds when speaking with you. You're just another "head shake" story we tell our wives when we get home.

[barnaclebob]

+1. I equate this activity to frivolous lawsuits tying up our courts. "I'm suing because no one told me coffee is hot."

That is actually a poor example to use if you read the facts of why McDonalds shouldn't have had their coffee that hot and why they got hit with such a large punative judgement. The woman originally just wanted medical bills (low 5 figures) paid and McDonald's had known that their coffee was unnecessarily dangerously hot for quite some time. When she had to take them to court to for just the medical bills the court declared her partially at fault and reduced the settlement for her actual damages but also slapped McDonalds with the punitive judgement due to their own negligence. We should all be thankful for large punitive judgements like this so that companies take more effort to not put consumer safety at risk unnecessarily.

For those that want to read more:

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

[Loik098]

.....

[cheese_breath]

This is why I try to park next to the cart corral / return when possible. It protects the car from dings on that side and there's fewer loose carts roaming nearby since most people that close to the corral return the carts to the corral.

Not too close though. I once watched a lady pushing her empty cart through the gap between a car and a cart corral on her way to return the cart. It didn't quite fit but she MADE it work. I noted her license plate number and stuck it on the windshield of the car that got scratched.

Wow. This is why I park far away and walk. Some people, I tell ya.

Also some people will just point the cart in the direction of the corral and give it a good shove from a distance. If it veers off course, oh well.

[Earl Lemongrab]

I like to park with the passenger side along the corral. When I come out, I put the cart with groceries into the corral and transfer them into the truck. As I have an old Bronco with many dings and scratches (along with plenty of rust) I'm not very worried about wayward carts.

[Mudpuppy]

This is why I try to park next to the cart corral / return when possible. It protects the car from dings on that side and there's fewer loose carts roaming nearby since most people that close to the corral return the carts to the corral.

Not too close though. I once watched a lady pushing her empty cart through the gap between a car and a cart corral on her way to return the cart. It didn't quite fit but she MADE it work. I noted her license plate number and stuck it on the windshield of the car that got scratched.

Wow. This is why I park far away and walk. Some people, I tell ya.

Also some people will just point the cart in the direction of the corral and give it a good shove from a distance. If it veers off course, oh well.

We must have bigger corrals in California or something.... The corrals take up the entire parking space. While I could see someone determinedly shoving between corral and car, the random veering off would just bounce off the back bumper of the car. My back bumper has seen worse.

[ponyboy]

+1. I equate this activity to frivolous lawsuits tying up our courts. "I'm suing because no one told me coffee is hot."

That is actually a poor example to use if you read the facts of why McDonalds shouldn't have had their coffee that hot and why they got hit with such a large punative judgement. The woman originally just wanted medical bills (low 5 figures) paid and McDonald's had known that their coffee was unnecessarily dangerously hot for quite some time. When she had to take them to court to for just the medical bills the court declared her partially at fault and reduced the settlement for her actual damages but also slapped McDonalds with the punitive judgement due to their own negligence. We should all be thankful for large punitive judgements like this so that companies take more effort to not put consumer safety at risk unnecessarily.

For those that want to read more:

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

Yep...this lawsuit still gets referenced today and most still have no idea what really went down because they see the bold headline and never bother reading what happened.

[Spirit Rider]

+1. I equate this activity to frivolous lawsuits tying up our courts. "I'm suing because no one told me coffee is hot."

That is actually a poor example to use if you read the facts of why McDonalds shouldn't have had their coffee that hot and why they got hit with such a large punative judgement. The woman originally just wanted medical bills (low 5 figures) paid and McDonald's had known that their coffee was unnecessarily dangerously hot for quite some time. When she had to take them to court to for just the medical bills the court declared her partially at fault and reduced the settlement for her actual damages but also slapped McDonalds with the punitive judgement due to their own negligence. We should all be thankful for large punitive judgements like this so that companies take more effort to not put consumer safety at risk unnecessarily.

For those that want to read more:

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

Yep...this lawsuit still gets referenced today and most still have no idea what really went down because they see the bold headline and never bother reading what happened.

Personally, I don't care if the coffee was too hot. Hot coffee is hot, what a novel thought. I you put a hot coffee between your legs, it is predictable that you might get burned. You deserve whatever happens. If I was on the jury, I wouldn't have given her a dime and if possible I would want her to pay all legal costs. You can't fix stupid, but you can stop rewarding stupidity.

[Loik098]

+1. I equate this activity to frivolous lawsuits tying up our courts. "I'm suing because no one told me coffee is hot."

That is actually a poor example to use if you read the facts of why McDonalds shouldn't have had their coffee that hot and why they got hit with such a large punative judgement. The woman originally just wanted medical bills (low 5 figures) paid and McDonald's had known that their coffee was unnecessarily dangerously hot for quite some time. When she had to take them to court to for just the medical bills the court declared her partially at fault and reduced the settlement for her actual damages but also slapped McDonalds with the punitive judgement due to their own negligence. We should all be thankful for large punitive judgements like this so that companies take more effort to not put consumer safety at risk unnecessarily.

For those that want to read more:

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts

Yep...this lawsuit still gets referenced today and most still have no idea what really went down because they see the bold headline and never bother reading what happened.

I think we're getting a little off-topic. I cited it because it's recognized by the general public as one of the very first and most famous "frivolous" lawsuits, regardless of whether you agree that it was or cite facts showing it really wasn't. Big picture: the most important result of the case is what it empowered others to do: file hundreds and hundreds of ACTUAL frivolous lawsuits that are a plague to our society.

Let's move on.

[barnaclebob]

Personally, I don't care if the coffee was too hot. Hot coffee is hot, what a novel thought. I you put a hot coffee between your legs, it is predictable that you might get burned. You deserve whatever happens. If I was on the jury, I wouldn't have given her a dime and if possible I would want her to pay all legal costs. You can't fix stupid, but you can stop rewarding stupidity.

The jury wasn't rewarding stupidity, the jury was punishing stupidity. You also need to be able to distinguish between punitive damages and actual damages.

[randomguy]

Personally, I don't care if the coffee was too hot. Hot coffee is hot, what a novel thought. I you put a hot coffee between your legs, it is predictable that you might get burned. You deserve whatever happens. If I was on the jury, I wouldn't have given her a dime and if possible I would want her to pay all legal costs. You can't fix stupid, but you can stop rewarding stupidity.

The jury wasn't rewarding stupidity, the jury was punishing stupidity.

The case comes down to two things
a) What is the line between hot and too hot.
b) Don't pick on old ladies

And it should be pointed out that she didn't get millions of dollars. The case was settled for an undisclosed amount that most guess having in the 500-600k range+ medical.

There are a lot of better examples of frivalous lawsuits (i.e. suing because of something you saw on TV, suing because GPS gave directions to walk across a freeway,...) but those rarely get awarded settlements. You end up with cases like our cart guy, were damage was done and we end up debating how much is a result of his stupidity (parking at the bottom of a hill, not near other cars for protection) and how much is the owner of a property (how come they aren't paying people to prevent the carts from rolling into cars). For the people whose car is dented, obviously the fault is the store. The rest of us like cheap prices and prefer that the owner take responsibility.

[c1over8]

This happened to a friend of mine at a Walmart. The friend went instead to report it, it took a few weeks for the store to get back to the friend but when they finally did the store said they determined there were too many carts and asked the friend to send them a repair estimate. Walmart paid the estimate.

[Bfwolf]

Not really relevant to this particular situation anymore since the OP has gotten money from the store, but I wonder if it's ever possible to hold the people who leave the carts out of the corral responsible. Let's say that they could go back and review video footage of their parking lot and identify who left the cart that tumbled into the OP and could also get the license plate number from that person's car as they drove off. I imagine said person would be found negligent and responsible if it was ever brought to court.

Probably never happens...that parking lot footage is pretty grainy, I imagine it'd be hard to get a license plate number off it.

[cheese_breath]

Not really relevant to this particular situation anymore since the OP has gotten money from the store, but I wonder if it's ever possible to hold the people who leave the carts out of the corral responsible.... I imagine said person would be found negligent and responsible if it was ever brought to court.

It was, on Judge Judy. I've seen several cases where someone will sue for damages from a cart that wasn't properly stowed and ran into their vehicle. The defendants typically plead 'act of God', but all they get for that is a good scolding and judgement against them.

[c078342]

Shows you can never be too careful. I usually shop at a market that does not allow customers to take carts out of the store. If you have a cart full of goods, a bagger brings them out to the car with you. Great old time service. I occasionally also shop at a store whose carts are equipped with a brake device that restricts to movement to a certain part of the parking lot. Just park outside of that area and you're fine. A little extra walk won't hurt any of us.

[LadyGeek]

This thread has run its course and is locked (no longer productive, derailed on hypothetical situations). See: Personal Consumer Issues

Note that this subforum has a much lower threshold for locking or removing posts than the financial and investing subforums.