Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

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Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by nisiprius »

Just curious. I ordered and received a block of "panela," Colombian raw sugar in cake form, called "piloncillo" in Mexico, widely used in Latin American cooking.

Is there supposed to be something wrong or unhealthy about it? It's imported by Goya, the big importer of Latin American foods and has the standard nutrition label on it and so forth, so you'd think it would be OK.

Wikipedia calls panela a "non-centrifugal cane sugar."

Why is actual raw sugar hard to find in supermarkets, when products with misleading names like "Sugar in the Raw" have very wide distribution?

There are a number of products widely marketed with names intended to suggest that they are raw sugar, notably "Sugar in the Raw," but they don't seem to be. "Sugar in the Raw" does a rather evasive tap dance in which they say "Sugar In The Raw® is a Turbinado sugar made exclusively from sugarcane. Juice is extracted from the sugarcane and then crystallized through evaporation to maintain its natural molasses, golden color and distinctive flavor. The resulting crystals are rinsed with a very small amount of water to remove just enough stickiness to make the product free-flowing. We pack this Turbinado sugar and market it under the Sugar In The Raw® brand name." Notice how careful they are not to say that it "is raw sugar." Random descriptions on the web consistently describe "turbinado sugar" with language like "less processed than brown sugar."

I've only just starting with it, but the taste of the panela is in fact noticeably different from brown sugar, molasses, etc. To my uneducated palette it has almost a chocolate-like taste.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by whodidntante »

Probably because demand is low.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by chrisdds98 »

probably not a lot of demand. might want to try asian or mexican markets
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by littlebird »

When I worked in the cane sugar industry a long time ago, "raw sugar" meant unprocessed sugar right off the boat. While I've eaten it and served it to others after careful inspection, I wouldn't consider it suitable as a consumer product in the U.S.

Possibly if it were packaged in the country of origin and shipped in a package it might be suitable, but sugar is very variable as it comes out of the fields, you'd have to be a tolerant consumer if you were to purchase it that way
Last edited by littlebird on Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by TPT »

In India they call it jagri, and it should be easy to find at Indian grocery stores (widely used). I've tried it but am not a big fan of plain jagri or sweets made mainly with it.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by nisiprius »

littlebird wrote:When I worked in the cane sugar industry a long time ago, "raw sugar" meant unprocessed sugar right off the boat. While I've eaten it and served it to others after careful inspection, I wouldn't consider it suitable as a consumer product in the U.S.

Possibly if it were packaged in the country of origin and shipped in a package it might be suitable, but sugar is very variable as it comes out of the fields, you'd have to be a tolerant consumer if you were to purchase it that way
What's the potential problem? What is it that you see on "careful inspection" sometimes?
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tooluser
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by tooluser »

From the US FDA:
BACKGROUND:

"Raw sugar" is the term generally applied to the intermediate food product as it leaves the sugar factory mill for further refinement in sugar refineries before use as food. In general, raw sugar is unsuitable for human food use because it contains extraneous impurities which are removed in the refining process. On occasion the agency has taken action against raw sugar intended for human food use without further refinement which was found to contain impurities rendering it unsuitable for food use. The only practical process for freeing raw sugar of such impurities such as filth, dirt, and decomposition is the usual refining process of sugar refiners

POLICY:

The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act does not prohibit the shipment of raw sugar for further refinement in sugar refineries or for non-human food use. However, the agency will take legal action against raw sugar intended for human food use without further refinement which contains impurities making it unsuitable for *human* food use.

*Material between asterisks is new or revised.*

Issued: 10/1/80
Revised: 3/95

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManu ... 074439.htm
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by littlebird »

nisiprius wrote:
littlebird wrote:When I worked in the cane sugar industry a long time ago, "raw sugar" meant unprocessed sugar right off the boat. While I've eaten it and served it to others after careful inspection, I wouldn't consider it suitable as a consumer product in the U.S.

Possibly if it were packaged in the country of origin and shipped in a package it might be suitable, but sugar is very variable as it comes out of the fields, you'd have to be a tolerant consumer if you were to purchase it that way
What's the potential problem? What is it that you see on "careful inspection" sometimes?
Do you think they scrub the holds of the ship before loading the bulk sugar on? Or the huge scoops which remove it? It doesn't come over in bags or barrels, if that's what you were envisioning, but is just loaded aboard in bulk. Insects and similar creepy crawlies also make it aboard. Tropical ones. Need I say more.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by HurdyGurdy »

nisiprius wrote:
littlebird wrote:When I worked in the cane sugar industry a long time ago, "raw sugar" meant unprocessed sugar right off the boat. While I've eaten it and served it to others after careful inspection, I wouldn't consider it suitable as a consumer product in the U.S.

Possibly if it were packaged in the country of origin and shipped in a package it might be suitable, but sugar is very variable as it comes out of the fields, you'd have to be a tolerant consumer if you were to purchase it that way
What's the potential problem? What is it that you see on "careful inspection" sometimes?
In Colombia there are serious concerns about chemicals added in the process.
http://www.eltiempo.com/archivo/documento/MAM-627496 mentions sodium thiosulfate and Aniline dyes.

In https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB4U5Kd6JJ0 (showing the Indian equivalent) you can see how the boiling liquid may have a very ugly grey color that they try to bleach away.

I'm sure that Goya panela is made to higher standards.

Also, panela in blocks is very hard to cut and does not dissolve easily, while grated panela tends to absorb water.
-------
Added: I've never seen "raw beet sugar" !! :confused
Last edited by HurdyGurdy on Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
boglerdude
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by boglerdude »

Is this like white rice/brown rice. Where it costs less to buy the product that costs more to process :)
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by Quark »

boglerdude wrote:Is this like white rice/brown rice. Where it costs less to buy the product that costs more to process :)
Supply, demand, competition, etc. are key issues in pricing. Processing cost can be a very small part of pricing.

Consider airline pricing - you can often fly from A-B-C for much less than A-B, even though you might be able to just stop at B (hidden city ticketing). That's due to market forces, not the cost of flying you around.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by Volkdancer »

An interesting footnote in re panela:

I have a block of panela that I purchased almost twenty years at an international food market. It has been sitting in my cupboard all that time with no apparent decomposition or disappearance and I have been living in a humid climate for the past fifteen years. I just scraped a tiny bit to taste and it tastes fine. So, at least in my experience, panela is very stable. I have not used it because when I look at it I ask myself "I wonder if...." and the only way to find out is empirical.

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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by wolf359 »

Another interesting footnote:

US sugar production is diversified between cane sugar (limited to tropical and subtropical regions like Florida, Hawaii, Louisiana, parts of Texas, etc.) and sugar beets (grown anywhere beets can grow, which includes northern regions of the United States.)

55% of US sugar production isn't from cane sugar. Sugar from sugar beets is by definition refined, and doesn't have a "raw sugar" form.

In US culture, people expect sugar to look like crystals that you can sprinkle or scoop without extra "stuff". Sugar in the Raw is probably the closest you'll get any demand for.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by emanuel_v19 »

Ah piloncillo! My mom always sent me to the store to buy some as a kid. Loved it!

Anyway, my mom owns a small field of sugar cane back home and every time they take it to the refinery they give us 2 bags of "fresh" sugar. Some of the best tasting too! Wish we could bring it to the states :/
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by littlebird »

boglerdude wrote:Is this like white rice/brown rice. Where it costs less to buy the product that costs more to process :)
No. Brown rice is fit for human consumption. Raw sugar is not. Sugar cane worker do chew the raw cane as it comes from the fields, but this is not raw sugar, which is minimally processed in the country of origin, but not to first world processed food standards.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by nisiprius »

Clearly, I didn't understand what "raw sugar" means, and panela is simply less refined, and refined in a different way, from brown sugar or "turbinado sugar." As to why it's hard to find, I guess it's just the usual mysteries of local economics, and culture. I have to say the block of panela I have doesn't look or taste the least bit gross or out of the range that would appeal to U.S. tastes, but my wife isn't convinced she can tell the difference from brown sugar (I am either going to have to shrug or buy some ordinary brown sugar, and some "sugar in the raw" and do a taste test. At $10 a pound, compared to $3.27 for two pounds of "Sugar in the Raw," I'd have to taste a big difference to bother buying it again. And yes, getting some "jaggery" at the local Indian ethnic supermarket is vaguely on my to-do list.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by mrgeeze »

Wife & I spent 6 weeks last winter driving our van around mexico,
Had a rocking good time. Recommend it to all. No worries!

Bought a bunch of piloncillo in Chiapas (near Cascadas de Chiflon).
The lady selling it taught me her recipe for peanut brittle.
Basically you glue together a few pounds of peanuts with molten pilon.

So, when we came back to the US I purchased some bulk shelled & roasted peanuts from Amazon.
We enjoyed wonderful peanut brittle for months.

Until the piloncillo ran out.

I have purchased the Goya a number of times. I have been disappointed
I find it hardly better than dark brown sugar you buy at the local supermarket.
It only looks like the pilon you can buy in latin america

So far I have been unable to find the piloncillo I purchased in Mexico.
But I know one day I will return- probably when I finish the last of the 2 cases of mescal I also brought back.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by nisiprius »

Various sources suggest that "jaggery" or "jagri" is about the same thing and that it can be found in Indian ethnic markets, but I haven't had a chance to visit the nearest one yet.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by Raryn »

It's hard to find because there is less of a US demand for it.

Ethnic markets should have it, and significantly cheaper than if you were to buy it from a grocery store. It amazes me the prices my usual grocery store charges for "ethnic" ingredients. If I'm cooking Thai or Indian, I'll pay 3-4x as much for stuff like fish sauce, coconut milk, etc as if I make the trip to the Asian market.

I also frequently buy Eastern European candies, meats (US made, but European style), etc, and they are impossible to find unless I make a trip up to where there's a large concentration of recent immigrants. The demand simply isn't there.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by Jabberwockt »

Try an Asian supermarket, I get my non-white sugar from there (no pun intended).

I usually have a few blocks of black sugar, a few blocks of brown cane sugar, ice or rock sugar, and regular old brown and white granulated in the pantry. Different sugars do taste very different.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by an_asker »

nisiprius wrote:Various sources suggest that "jaggery" or "jagri" is about the same thing and that it can be found in Indian ethnic markets, but I haven't had a chance to visit the nearest one yet.
There is nothing called 'jagri'! But yes, I've had jaggery (and have some at home) - much prefer sugar :-)
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by cholan »

an_asker wrote:
nisiprius wrote:Various sources suggest that "jaggery" or "jagri" is about the same thing and that it can be found in Indian ethnic markets, but I haven't had a chance to visit the nearest one yet.
There is nothing called 'jagri'! But yes, I've had jaggery (and have some at home) - much prefer sugar :-)
I agree about preferring sugar. I have seen jaggery made-not a pretty sight-and it is no substitute to sugar at all. Any sugar, raw or otherwise, has to be highly refined to come to our table.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by nisiprius »

I made some aguapanela, according to the very simple recipe I saw on the web--the recipe said 1/2 cup grated panela, 1 liter of water, 2 cinnamon sticks, simmer for 30 minutes. Lemon or lime optional (I didn't use it). I cut all the quantities in half. I made 8 ounces for my wife and I, drank it hot. It was nice. I estimated it as 130 calories or so, not too different from other sweet, hot beverages. I didn't do the necessary blind taste tests to figure out whether I could tell the difference from white sugar, or from ordinary "brown sugar."
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by Dagda »

The other reason you may not find this imported sugar as easily is the tariffs the United States places on imported sugar to protect its sugar farmers.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by HurdyGurdy »

nisiprius wrote:I made some aguapanela, according to the very simple recipe I saw on the web--the recipe said 1/2 cup grated panela, 1 liter of water, 2 cinnamon sticks, simmer for 30 minutes. Lemon or lime optional (I didn't use it). I cut all the quantities in half. I made 8 ounces for my wife and I, drank it hot. It was nice. I estimated it as 130 calories or so, not too different from other sweet, hot beverages. I didn't do the necessary blind taste tests to figure out whether I could tell the difference from white sugar, or from ordinary "brown sugar."
Next time, put some cheese there! (one that softens but keeps some consistency, mozzarella for instance).

Also, I want to report that Sucanat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucanat ("dehydrated cane juice") is quite good.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by nisiprius »

Interesting. The Goya brand panela, in a tidy round cake, that says "Product of Columbia, :oops: Colombia" has a pleasant stronger-than-brown-sugar taste. Some online sources complain that it isn't authentic. But the butt-ugly, scarily-authentic-looking irregular lumps of "Jaggery (Jagré)" that I bought from the Indian ethnic market, tastes basically like white sugar--no brown sugar or molasses flavor I could detect.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by heartwood »

I shopped Trader Joe's this week and bought some brown sugar. Right nest to the TJ's brown was TJ's panela. Never heard of it before this thread.

edit: whoops, it was Turbinado. like this http://www.traderjoes.com/fearless-flyer/article/446
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by ajjulee »

It's also worth checking health benefits of Jaggery( or Jaggry?) vs. refined sugar.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by nisiprius »

ajjulee wrote:It's also worth checking health benefits of Jaggery( or Jaggry?) vs. refined sugar.
Seems unlikely to me. What do you think the percentage of sucrose in panela or jaggery is? "Brown sugar" is something like 90%-96% sucrose. Whatever possible health effects the other stuff has, it can't amount to much. It's still sugar.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

Of all the things I've learned at bogleheads, I never imagined I would learn as much about sugar as I have today. Thanks. I have nothing to add except...Nisi, have you tried using Stevia (or similar plant derivative)? Or is stevia processed too and you're looking for something more pure as a sweetener?
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by nisiprius »

By the way... thanks to a Patrick O'Brian novel, I was delighted to learn that in the past, one of the machines used for refining sugar was called (no kidding) "a double-bottomed defecator."

According to the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica,
In Cuba, Martinique, Peru and elsewhere the old-fashioned double-bottomed defecator is used, into which the juice is run direct, and there limed and heated. This defecator is made with a hemispherical copper bottom, placed in an outer cast-iron casing, which forms a steam jacket, and is fitted with a cylindrical curb or breast above the bottom. If double-bottomed defecators are used in sufficient number to allow an hour and a half to two hours for making each defecation, and if they are of a size which permits any one of them to be filled up by the cane-mill with juice in ten to twelve minutes, they will make as perfect a defecation as is obtainable by any known system; but their employment involves the expenditure of much high-pressure steam (as exhaust steam will not heat the juice quickly enough through the small surface of the hemispherical inner bottom), and also the use of filter presses for treating the scums. A great deal of skilled superintendence is also required, and first cost is comparatively large. When a sufficient number are not available for a two hours' defecation, it is the practice in some factories to skim off the scums that rise to the top, and then boil up the juice for a few minutes and skim again, and, after repeating the operation once or twice, to run off the juice to separators or subsiders of any of the kinds previously described. In Java and Mauritius, where very clean canes are grown, double-bottomed defecators are generally used, and to them, perhaps as much as to the quality of the canes, may be attributed the very strong, fine sugars made in those islands.
Try to read that aloud without giggling.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by sk.dolcevita »

Nisi,

If you go to an Indian store and they look a bit befuddled when you ask for jagri, ask instead for gur (u being pronounced as in put). You may have better luck with it. If you are lucky, you may get the "first-press organic, no chemical" version.

Indian folklore believes gur is better than refined sugar. Of course, these folklore are not backed by double blind trials. And they seldom result in products that are packaged to meet Western sensibilities (if they are, expect to pay an arm and a leg). But to say that jaggery/jagri/gur in a typical Indian stores is not fit for human consumption is just plain silly.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by ajjulee »

nisiprius wrote:
ajjulee wrote:It's also worth checking health benefits of Jaggery( or Jaggry?) vs. refined sugar.
Seems unlikely to me. What do you think the percentage of sucrose in panela or jaggery is? "Brown sugar" is something like 90%-96% sucrose. Whatever possible health effects the other stuff has, it can't amount to much. It's still sugar.
Relatively speaking, jaggery is better than refined sugar. It's still sugar, however.

Below are some numbers according to http://www.authoritynutrition.com. Exact numbers are dependent on many things. I have no way of verifying these numbers but looks like this article is based on research paper "Review on Recent Advances in Value Addition of Jaggery based Product" at Journal of Food Processing & Technology https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access ... 000440.pdf.

100 grams (half a cup) of jaggery may contain (4):
Calories: 383.
Sucrose: 65–85 grams.
Fructose and glucose: 10–15 grams.
Protein: 0.4 grams.
Fat: 0.1 grams.
Iron: 11 mg, or 61% of the RDI.
Magnesium: 70-90 mg, or about 20% of the RDI.
Potassium: 1050 mg, or 30% of the RDI.
Manganese: 0.2–0.5 mg, or 10–20% of the RDI.
However, keep in mind that this is a 100-gram (3.5-oz) serving, which is much higher than you would generally eat at once. You’d probably consume closer to a tablespoon (20 grams) or teaspoon (7 grams).

Jaggery may also contain small amounts of B vitamins and minerals, including calcium, zinc, phosphorus and copper (4).


According the research article Jaggery "is high calorie sweetener and as it contains minerals, protein, glucose and fructose, it is known to be healthier in comparison to white sugar. A good quality Gur contains more than 70% sucrose, less than 10% of glucose and fructose, less than 5% minerals and less than 3% moisture."
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by nisiprius »

sk.dolcevita wrote:Nisi,

If you go to an Indian store and they look a bit befuddled when you ask for jagri, ask instead for gur (u being pronounced as in put). You may have better luck with it. If you are lucky, you may get the "first-press organic, no chemical" version.

Indian folklore believes gur is better than refined sugar. Of course, these folklore are not backed by double blind trials. And they seldom result in products that are packaged to meet Western sensibilities (if they are, expect to pay an arm and a leg). But to say that jaggery/jagri/gur in a typical Indian stores is not fit for human consumption is just plain silly.
I don't think anyone said that. And, actually I did buy some last week. As I understand it now, a) true "raw sugar" isn't fit for human consumption, but b) jaggery isn't raw sugar; like panela, it has been refined by a "non-centrifugal" process.

They had six or seven different kinds, but unfortunately most of them were in 1 kg. bags and I didn't want that much. I bought the only kind that was package in one pound bags--big, smooth, rounded lumps like small potatoes. It turned out to be very light colored and inside and had relatively little molasses or brown sugar flavor, it was almost like white sugar.
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Re: Why is actual raw sugar hard to find?

Post by seychellois_lib »

Slightly off topic but when I sail by the C&H sugar plant in the Carquinez Strait in the SF Bay area I get the heavenly smell of sugar being refined. They actually unload the raw sugar from ships right in front of the plant. I always look forward to passing by that plant.
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