Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

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cpw84
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by cpw84 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:01 am

What you eat absolutely matters, but I have also had the most success by actively tracking how much I eat. There are a variety of free calorie tracking apps. Some are more convenient to work with than others, so I recommend trying a few and seeing what works for you. I have also found that I get less hungry doing this and less afternoon energy slump if I have small meals throughout the day, but that is a personal preference. Experiment and see what works for you.

Like with investing, avoid any trend that seems too good to be true. Avoid "gurus" on television (Oz, Mercola). Make sure there is some scientific backing to what you are attempting.

Diet should go hand in hand with exercise. I highly recommend You Are Your Own Gym by Mark Lauren. It is a guide to bodyweight training, with 4 levels of 10 week programs and a wealth of variations for an fitness level. I'm talking everything from push ups against a wall to one armed pushups with feet elevated. Unless you're comparing against heavy Olympic lifts, you can get all the strength gains you want from these variations. There is an app with timers that I also recommend, for something like $2. I consider this a Boglehead-worthy investment because you can get fit without the monthly cost of a gym. The only equipment I have for this is a pull-up bar (the kind that hangs from a door frame) and a couple barstools for dips and to set up for rows. This approach got me into the best shape of my life after years of going to the gym.

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dm200
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by dm200 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:37 am

I believe in diet/nutrition/exercise/health approaches that are "Science based". Unfortunately, in my opinion, most of the financially successful "approaches" are not. Ironically, in my opinion, expensive approaches that fail (in the long run) are the most financially successful because folks keep going back and paying a LOT over and over again.

In my opinion, while there are some individual differences from one person to another, basic diet/nutrition applies to almost everyone. Many folks think the rules of science do not apply to them. Given time, I believe such folks will be hit with health and medical issues - or death.

I will only deal with "science based" health/medical providers. These include Physicians (with MD or DO degree), Podiatrists, Registered nurses, nurse practioners, licensed Physical and Occupational therapists, registered dieticians- and those (such as Physician assistants) working in or with such providers.

stoptothink
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by stoptothink » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:08 am

jackietreehorn wrote:This will be my last reply, in respect for hijacking the thread. CFM300, you have a well informed opinion, I respectfully disagree with some of it.

Muscle fatigue is muscle fatigue. Whether it's task priority or lots of work in a short period of time, like with Crossfit, or a HIT session, or even running hills, one can achieve muscle fatigue. Jones wouldn't like Crossfit. It is the opposite of what he preached. It still achieves muscle fatigue, just in a different manner. The concept of muscle fatigue is something Jones' research was in the forefront of. Safely training a bicep, in its correct range of motion on a Nautilus machine, or any equipment for that matter, will directly translate to functional strength. That bicep will turn a door handle, lift a canned good or raise a glass to your mouth. Crossfit's functional strength concept is the same thing, achieved in a different manner.

The fitness industry looked vastly different then, compared to today. Jones' Nautilus was a major contributor to the boom of private gyms in the 80's. The fact that we're even discussing this, can be attributed to Jones and the other early pioneers of personal fitness. It just wasn't that popular.

If you do not agree with this, there's nothing I can do. You have a well thought out argument, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Sorry for the long post. Thank you for reading.
My previous knowledge of Jones was limited to Nautilus, which IMO is irrelevant today with our further understanding of human biomechanics. The focus on isolation open kinetic chain movements is the very definition of "non-functional" (for lack of a better term) training. I do understand what you are saying about intensity/TUT/muscular fatigue and I can respect how Jones was a pioneer in advancing our understanding of these concepts. I think CFM300 and I were a bit confused when you said his concepts are still used today by all high level athletes; I can't say I agree. End of thread hijack.
Last edited by stoptothink on Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

CFM300
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by CFM300 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:14 am

jackietreehorn wrote:This will be my last reply, in respect for hijacking the thread. CFM300, you have a well informed opinion, I respectfully disagree with some of it.

Muscle fatigue is muscle fatigue. Whether it's task priority or lots of work in a short period of time, like with Crossfit, or a HIT session, or even running hills, one can achieve muscle fatigue. Jones wouldn't like Crossfit. It is the opposite of what he preached. It still achieves muscle fatigue, just in a different manner. The concept of muscle fatigue is something Jones' research was in the forefront of. Safely training a bicep, in its correct range of motion on a Nautilus machine, or any equipment for that matter, will directly translate to functional strength. That bicep will turn a door handle, lift a canned good or raise a glass to your mouth. Crossfit's functional strength concept is the same thing, achieved in a different manner.

The fitness industry looked vastly different then, compared to today. Jones' Nautilus was a major contributor to the boom of private gyms in the 80's. The fact that we're even discussing this, can be attributed to Jones and the other early pioneers of personal fitness. It just wasn't that popular.

If you do not agree with this, there's nothing I can do. You have a well thought out argument, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Sorry for the long post. Thank you for reading.
Final post from me as well on this topic, unless someone else chimes in. Happy to continue discussion via PM.

Just to be clear, I'm not expressing agreement with CrossFit or Jones. I'm expressing that they disagree with each other. About what it is for a movement to be functional, about which movements are functional, about which exercises have value, about what it means for a bout of exercise to be intense, about how frequently to train, about pretty much everything related to strength and conditioning. Again, I'm expressing no judgement about who's right. Just they are most certainly not in agreement with each other, in theory or practice.

And I also disagree that all muscular fatigue is the same. The type of muscular failure that occurs when one misses a 1RM squat attempt is very different from the muscular failure that occurs when trying to perform a non-stop set of 100 reps of squats, and that is quite different from what occurs when one's legs stop moving when sprinting up a long set of stairs. More importantly, the types of adaptations that occur from these disparate types of training are very different as well.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

BW1985
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by BW1985 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:39 am

I know it's a hijack, but I'm enjoying the discussion.
"Squirrels figured out how to save eons ago. They buried acorns. Some, they dug up, for food. Others, they let to sprout, in new oak trees. We could learn from squirrels." -john94549

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bnwest
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by bnwest » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:43 pm

I recommend as others have http://nutritionfacts.org/.
NUTRITIONFACTS.ORG is a strictly non-commercial, science-based public service provided by Dr. Michael Greger, providing free updates on the latest in nutrition research via bite-sized videos. There are more than a thousand videos on nearly every aspect of healthy eating, with new videos and articles uploaded every day.
As I have gotten older my weight has become an issue. I have read quite a few books on diet and nutrition and longevity. There is much consensus. You should eat more veggies, eat less processed foods and eat in moderation.

Over the last 5 years, I have had two diets that worked for me. First, I used MyFitnessPal app on my iPhone, recorded what I ate and just ate less. Second, I did (and am still doing) intermittent fasting (2/3 times a week I skip dinner and only eat a modest breakfast and lunch).

I also try to walk 45 minutes 3/4 times a week. At some point, I will try some version of HIT.

fmhealth
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by fmhealth » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:24 pm

Here are 13 words that I live by. "Never eat or drink anything that comes from an animal with four legs".

Be Well,
fmhealth

halfnine
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by halfnine » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:21 pm

CFM300 wrote:
stoptothink wrote:Something else that I have come to understand, everybody is different - there are basic principles of nutrition, but individuals can have vastly different metabolic capabilities and respond totally different to the same protocols.
I agree 100% and would add that there's also tremendous variance among people with respect to behavioral issues and compliance. Some people like clearly laid out meals so no decisions are involved. Others do better with intermittent fasting, which involves windows of eating where nothing is restricted. Others prefer to just eat particular types of food, but as much as they want (e.g., vegetarian or paleo). Any of these approaches, as well as others, can work. But there's no single best protocol for everyone. People have to experiment and find a diet that work best for them.
Would it be accurate to state that what works for you may shift over time as well. I am certainly noticing differences now into my 40s.

selters
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by selters » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:29 pm


stoptothink
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by stoptothink » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:47 pm

halfnine wrote:
CFM300 wrote:
stoptothink wrote:Something else that I have come to understand, everybody is different - there are basic principles of nutrition, but individuals can have vastly different metabolic capabilities and respond totally different to the same protocols.
I agree 100% and would add that there's also tremendous variance among people with respect to behavioral issues and compliance. Some people like clearly laid out meals so no decisions are involved. Others do better with intermittent fasting, which involves windows of eating where nothing is restricted. Others prefer to just eat particular types of food, but as much as they want (e.g., vegetarian or paleo). Any of these approaches, as well as others, can work. But there's no single best protocol for everyone. People have to experiment and find a diet that work best for them.
Would it be accurate to state that what works for you may shift over time as well. I am certainly noticing differences now into my 40s.
Absolutely. The human body is so adaptable, which is a blessing and a curse. As I have gotten older, I have definitely gotten less capable of dealing with a wide variety of foods. If I get off my normal routine or eat even one little thing I shouldn't, which happens at least once a month at our extended family Sunday dinners, I am literally physically ill for 2-3 - crazy blood sugar spikes, digestive discomfort, headaches, bloating, etc. It sucks, but there is the upside that I always have the painful reminder of what I should be eating.

lemonPepper
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by lemonPepper » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:53 pm

Has anybody tried platejoy. It's a meal management solution and supposedly their recipes are delicious and healthy. It also takes care of the planning and grocery shopping aspect.

madbrain
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by madbrain » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:27 pm

Saving$ wrote:Is there a Boglehead like site or philosophy for Diet and Nutrition?

Many people remark that before coming to this site they were so confused about investing, thinking it was really complicated. They have read all sorts of financial newsletters, and just get more confused. Then they get the three fund portfolio and set and forget.

For some, diet and nutrition is like that - lots of theories, lots of complication. Is there something like Bogleheads for a healthy diet and nutrition? Both for losing weight and then maintaining? Simple, not some fad, not the nutrition version of the newsletter of the month. The three fund portfolio of diet and nutrition?

Ideally, something like this would have a weekly grocery shopping list, that can then be used to make what I hope would be exceedingly easy to prepare meals.
I don't think you are going to find anything as simple as the 3-fund portfolio for diet.

However, if your goal is only to lose weight and maintain it, and not to eat especially healthy otherwise, there are a few rules you can follow :
1) to lose weight, eat fewer calories than you spend for an extended period of time
2) after you have reached your goal, to maintain weight, eat the same amount of calorie that you spend daily

How you accomplish this is up to you and will vary greatly depending on your metabolism and your preferences.

For me, what has worked for #1 is to track every single calorie I spend using Myfitnesspal. This is very tedious work to be sure - I tried to be as accurate as possible and weighted all my food intake as accurately as possible, to the nearest g/ml if possible. I lost 34 lbs between Dec 2015 and Jun 2016 - went from 170 lbs to 136 lbs. That is a much more reasonable weight for my 5'6" height. I also lost about 3" in my waist, went from 36" to 33".

I did not exercise at all in the process, nor did I in any way restrict the type of foods that I ate. Absolutely nothing was off limits, not foie gras, tiramisu, chocolate, wine, candy, lamb, beef, roquefort cheese, diet soda, protein bars, Ikea cinnamon buns, and some of the other favorite parts of my diet. Vegetables are nearly non-existent in my diet, also, which would be in grave violation of most healthy dietary advice - but I do get my vitamins still through supplementation. However, I made sure to limit the quantities. I could only accomplish this by eating at home as frequently as possible, and avoiding eating out more than once a week, as it is much harder to track the quantity of food at restaurants. A few restaurants have calories on the menu, but the quantities are generally vastly larger than one should eat.

I have continued my food tracking, but am no longer eating a significant calorie deficit. I am currently at 141 lbs, so I have regained a few pounds, but not a lot. I want to remain around 140 lbs. I don't believe I can do it unless I continue to track - otherwise, I will easily eat far more if I don't track, and regain the weight. It is really surprisingly easy to go over your goal. Some foods are very dense in calories, while others are not, and it is still not obvious to me when to stop.

What has changed however is that when I shop for groceries, I pay much greater attention to the labels than before. I don't go out of my way to avoid carbs or sugary foods as I have a sweet tooth, but when I select foods, I try to select the ones that have as high a percentage of protein and fiber as possible. I also don't avoid fatty foods. Through the myfitnesspal tracking, I have found that my diet is generally too low in fiber, and too low in fat as well compared to the recommendations.

Reading the labels has led me to try a whole bunch of new foods I might not otherwise have. Some of my favorite "healthy" foods are :
- dried figs. Relatively high in fiber, though sugary. But I love them.
- greek yogurt. Easy to way to get my protein goal if I'm not eating meat or fish that day. Typically buy the plain nonfat kind and add my own choice of low calorie sweets, or the non-fat versions with fruits. Those 80 calorie Dannon greek light cups are great.
- edamame spaghetti . This is made out of soybeans. This tastes bland without sauce - don't have it by itself - but it has a huge amount of both protein and fiber
- quinoa. Tastes pretty good to me, and is healthier than rice and pasta

Things I have completely eliminated from my diet :
- all fruit juices . Just empty calories and no fiber. Not satieting at all, either. I would much rather have a few squares of Lindt than a glass of OJ

Things I have significantly reduced in frequency and quantity :
- bread and most other baked goods . That is the hardest part, undoubtedly

Things that were fairly easy to reduce in quantity :
- alcohol. A 100 ml glass of wine + glass of water at the table will do just as well as a 150 ml glass of wine, in my experience .

Things I tried that failed :
- skinless chicken. Cannot get myself to eat that, the taste is just too bland for me without skin . And I actually need more fat in my diet, not less.

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billyo44
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by billyo44 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:17 pm

https://www.drfuhrman.com/

I discovered Dr. Fuhrman's Infomercial on Public Television several years ago, listened to the show, bought the CD set that explains the science of food including the whys & hows of the intake of food, the function of the digestive tract, etc...definitely money well spent. I never buy infomercial stuff but his explanation of the 'science' of food is what interested me...for example when you eat the typical American food item (i.e. a fatty cheeseburger) he detailed what it does to you...and how the taste enhancers that are in the junk fund keep you a captive customer.

There's nothing fashionable, sexy, or complicated about it...it simply works...but kicking the unhealthy food addictions is like the process of quitting smoking...there are withdrawals for the cravings you have for the stuff in the food that makes you fat and lethargic...but it eventually goes away.

This is a lifestyle change for the better...I did it 'all-in' for six months...then took on more calories from traditional (but healthier) foods after I had lost the weight and then balanced to maintain the weight I desired.

I recommend his book "Eat to Live"...it will change your life for the better if you have the fortitude to take on the challenge.

Good luck...
Independence = Financial assets working for you versus you working for them. | "Own an Index Fund, Get a Life Outside of Finance, and Relax"...John C. Bogle

tolerable2323
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by tolerable2323 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:49 am

Saving$ wrote:Is there a Boglehead like site or philosophy for Diet and Nutrition?

Many people remark that before coming to this site they were so confused about investing, thinking it was really complicated. They have read all sorts of financial newsletters, and just get more confused. Then they get the three fund portfolio and set and forget.

For some, diet and nutrition is like that - lots of theories, lots of complication. Is there something like Bogleheads for a healthy diet and nutrition? Both for losing weight and then maintaining? Simple, not some fad, not the nutrition version of the newsletter of the month. The three fund portfolio of diet and nutrition?

Ideally, something like this would have a weekly grocery shopping list, that can then be used to make what I hope would be exceedingly easy to prepare meals.

1. Ask yourself what "healthy foods" do you actually like eating? Then eat more of it.
2. Exercise- if you hate the gym find a activity that you actually like doing hiking?tennis? golf? ect
3. drink lots of water- Sometimes we confuse hunger from thirst
4.Unhealthy foods- Make it inconvenient for yourself to have them. Do you really want to drive to the store at 11pm to pick up some chips?
5. Make adjustments and listen to your body
6. GET STARTED!

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dm200
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by dm200 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:01 am

Is there a Boglehead like site or philosophy for Diet and Nutrition?
Two I suggest:

More basic: www.drmirkin.com

Much more expanded/detailed: www.nutritionfacts.org including the book "How Not To Die". The "Daily Dozen" (in How Not to Die - and there is a smartphone app) is a very simple way to do the "basics".

CoAndy
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by CoAndy » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:08 pm

HomerJ wrote:
surfhb wrote:Just like the 3 fund Portfolio - Make it Simple: Eat some fruit, vegetables and a small portion of protein at every meal. Throw in some beans and rice once in awhile and snack on nuts and berries

Example:

Breakfast:
Cantaloupe, Sauteed Spinach and a small Turkey breast

Lunch:
Strawberries, Grilled Carrots and Grilled Orange Roughy

Dinner:
Kiwi Fruit, Salad, Pork/veggie Stew

I spend no more than $50 a week on food, eating simply.

Dont over think your cooking. Just simple and fresh
Heh, simple eh? I love making sautéed Spinach while getting the kids ready for school in the morning.
LOL

Barefootgirl
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Re: Bogleheads for Diet/Nutrition?

Post by Barefootgirl » Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:13 pm

I find primaldocs.com to be a helpful site
How many retired people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Only one, but he takes all day.

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