New Garage Doors

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Small Law Survivor
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New Garage Doors

Post by Small Law Survivor » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:20 pm

[restarted thread, check posting dates - admin alex]

I need new garage doors for my house in New England. The doors now are particle board dating to the 1970s, and they are in bad shape.

I asked for references on my town's linkedin site, and several people recommended the same company.

The company came out and gave me a proposal 1 3/8" thick galvanized steel, insulation R-12. The manufacturer is "Garaga."

The cost for two doors, plus the motor/drive system, is about $2,500 installed.

Does this sound reasonable? I've never purchased garage doors before (and probably won't again), so any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks, Small Law Survivor

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:29 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (garage doors).

Galvanized steel and R-12 insulation? That's quite an impressive garage door. Is your garage heated and need solid protection for security?

Have you looked online to do some price comparisons?
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Small Law Survivor » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:10 pm

No, our garage is not heated, and we don't have security needs.

The salesman told me that this was "industry standard", and that the polyurethane insulation is not for cold protection per se, but to ensure the duration of the door.

Small Law Survivor

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by pshonore » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:21 pm

The galvanized steel is quite thin and can be stamped with designs, (I forget the gauge) and is not meant for security. I've had something similar for more than 10 years and they look like the day they were installed including the paint. Lowes and HD probably have similar items on display.

http://www.clopaydoor.com/

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by tomd37 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:57 pm

Ten days ago I placed an order with a local garage door installation and repair company (been using them since 2003) for a 16' x 7' double-door Clopay Classic Premium Series, Model 9203, 4 panel (no glass), almond color door for a total of $1,225. That includes 2-inch polyurethane insulation (18.4 R-Value), and interior steel backing, replaceable bottom weather seal, nylon rollers, complete new roller guide frame, new vinyl seals around outside framing, and two 12" radius torsion springs for the heavier door. I already have a Lift Master 3500-7 belt-drive opener with battery backup that was installed in 2006 for $425 by same local garage door company and will continue using it. Expect installation week of October 3rd. Garage is under one bedroom in home. Belt-drive opener and nylon rollers installed ten ago years quieted things down considerably and expect new door with insulation and new nylon rollers will be even quieter. Door being replaced is almost 24 years old and building contractor grade.
Last edited by tomd37 on Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by MichaelRpdx » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:10 pm

Small Law Survivor wrote:I need new garage doors for my house in New England. The doors now are particle board dating to the 1970s, and they are in bad shape.

I asked for references on my town's linkedin site, and several people recommended the same company.

The company came out and gave me a proposal 1 3/8" thick galvanized steel, insulation R-12. The manufacturer is "Garaga."

The cost for two doors, plus the motor/drive system, is about $2,500 installed.

Does this sound reasonable? I've never purchased garage doors before (and probably won't again), so any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks, Small Law Survivor
I replaced my single garage door last year. You don't mention the width of your doors - mine is 10' wide. What you are being quoted is in line with what I paid. A local independent provided excellent service and was well below what the Costco contractor quoted.

My only regret in the matter is not having done the change earlier. My wife pointed out I'd wanted to replace the thin aluminum door since we bought the house 20 years ago.
Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity

Small Law Survivor
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Small Law Survivor » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:23 pm

The doors are 9' wide, 7' high.

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Miriam2 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:18 pm

Small Law Survivor wrote:The company came out and gave me a proposal 1 3/8" thick galvanized steel, insulation R-12. The manufacturer is "Garaga."
The cost for two doors, plus the motor/drive system, is about $2,500 installed.
Does this sound reasonable?
The insulation may also reduce the clanking sound of a metal garage door when it opens and closes. We had wooden garage doors and they were very quiet, only heard the motor. When they need replacing, we used standard metal garage doors and the clanking of the metal doors was awful. In our new house, we opted for padded or insulated garage doors - designed not for the cold, but to reduce the clanking sound. They're pretty quiet, even with the motor. The padding is thick and solid and slides into the door panels; it's not the fluffy stuff.

In our HCOL area, the $2,500 for the doors & motor & installation (may need a permit also) sounds standard pricing.

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by ralph124cf » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:58 pm

Two items. Consider the 2" thick doors with greater insulation. Also consider replacing the existing roller guide frame. There is a good chance that it is not really straight. The garage door installer can advise you on the need for this, but of course he is likely to err on the side of replacement. It is actually very reasonable.

Ralph

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by pshonore » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:38 pm

ralph124cf wrote:Two items. Consider the 2" thick doors with greater insulation. Also consider replacing the existing roller guide frame. There is a good chance that it is not really straight. The garage door installer can advise you on the need for this, but of course he is likely to err on the side of replacement. It is actually very reasonable.

Ralph
I cannot imagine any reputable installer would try to put new steel doors in the existing 40 year old frame for wooden doors. I'll bet his quote includes new frames

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by jharkin » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:58 pm

That price for a pair of doors with openers seems typical for New England.

I just went through the same thing - replacing old particle board 70s/80s doors in the western suburbs of Boston. I used a Garaga dealer and had a similar door put in - the "Acadia 138" 1 3/8 insulated door with windows, raised panel design and carriage door decorative trim. Two 8x7 doors with all hardware and new tracks/cables/springs was about 2100 installed (we re-used the existing openers). A similar model without the windows and trim was about 1500 for the pair, installed. Openers would have added another 500+

The Garaga is a good door. Its R12 rated because these doors are steel shells with wooden end caps and filled with closed cell foam. They have interlocking weatherstip between the panels and around the perimeter.. Thought I have read that in tests they dont do as well as advertised.

I, like you, have a detached unheated insulated garage so I questioned the need for insulated doors. The installer showed me their entire catalog and the bottom line is you basically can't buy an un-insulated door unless you buy the cheapest,bargain basement, bottom of the line plain door. The kind you would see on the service bay of Jiffy lube, not a suburban house.

If your current openers are working, suggest you wait until after the new doors are in before deciding on replacement. Mine (90s vintage) where rickety and noisy with the old doors but now are smooth as silk and quiet with the new doors and all new tracks with ball bearing rubber rollers, etc..

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by foreverihope » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:14 pm

off topic for area, in south florida a garage door is more important than hurricane windows( 80 % of all hurricane damage is thru garage doors) dont know your area but strong beats weak.

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by tomd37 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:30 pm

I would not be surprised if the garage doors marketed under the name Garaga with its various model names were not in fact "Coplay" doors. They seem so similar.
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just frank
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by just frank » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:50 am

You guys are almost convincing me to replace my two garage doors....completely plain 1960 originals made of 1/8" Masonite (hardboard).

Too bad I just painted 'em. :wink:

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by ralph124cf » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:49 am

If the garage is not attached to the house, then I agree that the insulation is irrelevant, but for an attached garage, even if unheated, the insulation will keep the interior of the garage slightly warmer, and thus keep your house slightly warmer also. The steel insulated door also deforms much less under wind pressure, so there is less air leakage which tends to keep the garage a little warmer.

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by JPH » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:18 am

I replaced two 8'X7' wooden garage doors in 2009, with steel insulated ones. The price of $1500 included doors, motors, all hardware, labor, and hauling away the old doors. Low COL area.
While the moments do summersaults into eternity | Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Small Law Survivor » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:20 pm

Like the TvZ lyric. What a great songwriter he was .....

Carefreeap
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Carefreeap » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:03 am

I'm reviving this thread because we are now in the market for a new garage door and opener. The door is probably 20 years old and got pretty beat up by our former tenant. Tenant went BK so no recourse was possible.

After reading this thread I want to add a couple of our conditions. House is in a mild weather area (coastal SF Bay area) about a mile from the beach. Garage is on the non-weather side. House is an elevated rancher with the garage being under the Master Bedroom. Since the garage faces mostly south, it can get quite warm. Putting a hot car in the garage does seem to keep the upstairs bedroom too warm. I'm wondering if this is a weird situation where we DON'T want insulation?

Has anyone used Costco for their garage door replacement? Would like to hear about your experience.

Thanks for your help!

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:02 pm

Hey Guys,

My father opened up his garage door business around 84, and about 5 years ago gave/sold it to his brother. I worked for it since I was 16 and stopped a little after I graduated college. This is just for some credence to what I'm saying. We were located in MD.

2K for a 9x7 installed is a little expensive. I used to install the super cheap ones for 900 bucks, and the top of the line doors would be about 1600. I installed the operators for about 500. Those prices include take down and haul away of the old door. Granted, San Francisco might cost more just because it's SF compared to MD.

Don't trust those R factor ratings. Several companies test their garage door by cutting out a 1x1 square and putting that in a machine to test heat transfer. They also seal up the edges with caulk during this test to test only the panel. Well that's great, but not practical in the real world. If you push on a garage door, it should move a little bit, so there are gaps around the edges, and it's in 4 or 5 sections so there's the gaps between the sections. If they would test the entire door, that R value would be much, much lower. There is 1 or two companies out there that test the entire door, those are the top of the line doors and man are they great, but pricey.

If you have a row of glass, take the R rating of the door and multiply it by 0.75. A row of glass is essentially no insulation at all in that panel so you have to lower the total R rating. The tests for R ratings do not include glass.

The thickness of the doors don't matter much, but of course, usually the thicker the better. That doesn't mean it's always better. Garaga is a big brand and is alright. I try and stay away from Clopay. Wayne Dalton doors are coming up in quality, but I'd steer clear of them for a while as well, unless it's commercial, the commercial line of WD is pretty good.

Check the thickness of the metal. They'll tell you in gauges, the higher the gauge, the thinner the metal. If they say "nominal" anywhere, just add 1 to the gauge they quote you. Gauges are ranges of thickness and they slightly overlap. If a company says nominal, it's the thin end that's in both gauges, they say the lower number to seem better.

Small Law Survivor - That salesman lied to you. No door needs insulation to ensure the duration of the door. He's upselling you.

Insulation does help a lot with noise. But if it's a detached garage, who cares? Sound reduction is only worth it if you have living space above the garage, or if it's attached to the house. Granted you don't want to have a screeching door, but it's not worth a couple hundred dollars.

Unless you hit the track (roller guide frame), or are buying a different thickness door, you do not need to replace it. That stuff does not go bad. And if you tell the company that when you buy the door, they can order it an omit the tracks and should save you about 80-100 bucks. The shaft, springs, cables will still get replaced, just not the tracks. Rollers in the hinges are designed without a stop on their end so that they can go in and out of the hinge, a little bit of wobble is perfectly fine and the tracks don't need to be perfectly straight. If it does need adjustment, you just take the claw on your hammer, and bend the brackets that hold it into the wall to move the tracks. Also, you can loosen up the lags and slide the entire system left or right since the lags are in slots and not holes. If the tracks are really old, it might just be easier to put new tracks in to make sure the hardware lines up, but most likely it will.

If you live in hurricane or tornado areas, just throw extra struts on there. Struts are basically these big pieces of folded metal. Horman even makes a hurrican package which is literally just two struts per section. And that's rated to 150 mph winds for a 16x8.

Sorry for the book. This post isn't as all encompassing as my other Garage related posts.

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Carefreeap » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:33 pm

nickjoy wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:02 pm
Hey Guys,

My father opened up his garage door business around 84, and about 5 years ago gave/sold it to his brother. I worked for it since I was 16 and stopped a little after I graduated college. This is just for some credence to what I'm saying. We were located in MD.

2K for a 9x7 installed is a little expensive. I used to install the super cheap ones for 900 bucks, and the top of the line doors would be about 1600. I installed the operators for about 500. Those prices include take down and haul away of the old door. Granted, San Francisco might cost more just because it's SF compared to MD.

Don't trust those R factor ratings. Several companies test their garage door by cutting out a 1x1 square and putting that in a machine to test heat transfer. They also seal up the edges with caulk during this test to test only the panel. Well that's great, but not practical in the real world. If you push on a garage door, it should move a little bit, so there are gaps around the edges, and it's in 4 or 5 sections so there's the gaps between the sections. If they would test the entire door, that R value would be much, much lower. There is 1 or two companies out there that test the entire door, those are the top of the line doors and man are they great, but pricey.

If you have a row of glass, take the R rating of the door and multiply it by 0.75. A row of glass is essentially no insulation at all in that panel so you have to lower the total R rating. The tests for R ratings do not include glass.

The thickness of the doors don't matter much, but of course, usually the thicker the better. That doesn't mean it's always better. Garaga is a big brand and is alright. I try and stay away from Clopay. Wayne Dalton doors are coming up in quality, but I'd steer clear of them for a while as well, unless it's commercial, the commercial line of WD is pretty good.

Check the thickness of the metal. They'll tell you in gauges, the higher the gauge, the thinner the metal. If they say "nominal" anywhere, just add 1 to the gauge they quote you. Gauges are ranges of thickness and they slightly overlap. If a company says nominal, it's the thin end that's in both gauges, they say the lower number to seem better.

Small Law Survivor - That salesman lied to you. No door needs insulation to ensure the duration of the door. He's upselling you.

Insulation does help a lot with noise. But if it's a detached garage, who cares? Sound reduction is only worth it if you have living space above the garage, or if it's attached to the house. Granted you don't want to have a screeching door, but it's not worth a couple hundred dollars.

Unless you hit the track (roller guide frame), or are buying a different thickness door, you do not need to replace it. That stuff does not go bad. And if you tell the company that when you buy the door, they can order it an omit the tracks and should save you about 80-100 bucks. The shaft, springs, cables will still get replaced, just not the tracks. Rollers in the hinges are designed without a stop on their end so that they can go in and out of the hinge, a little bit of wobble is perfectly fine and the tracks don't need to be perfectly straight. If it does need adjustment, you just take the claw on your hammer, and bend the brackets that hold it into the wall to move the tracks. Also, you can loosen up the lags and slide the entire system left or right since the lags are in slots and not holes. If the tracks are really old, it might just be easier to put new tracks in to make sure the hardware lines up, but most likely it will.

If you live in hurricane or tornado areas, just throw extra struts on there. Struts are basically these big pieces of folded metal. Horman even makes a hurrican package which is literally just two struts per section. And that's rated to 150 mph winds for a 16x8.

Sorry for the book. This post isn't as all encompassing as my other Garage related posts.
Thanks, your post is helpful. As I stated in my earlier post, we replaced the door about 20 years and our tenant really beat up the door. We started having problems last week where the door was hitting the garage door opening mechanism and stopping. My husband somehow got that to stop but now it goes up about a foot and then stops. If you reverse and then start up again it will continue to go up and there are no problems with it closing. We had this problem before after some heavy rains but we've been bone dry for several months. You may have seen that little fire problem north of us. :(

Any idea what causes this problem? It would be nice if the thing worked properly while we complete our purchase and installation process.

investor4life
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by investor4life » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:13 pm

Just FYI, Costco offers Amarr garage doors, installed by your local Amarr dealer. There's a 15% Costco cash back offer through 10/29 to go with it. I don't know much about this brand but would be interested in hearing about peoples' experience, both with this brand and with going the Costco route. (We did a full HVAC replacement last year via Costco and are very pleased.)

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Carefreeap » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:34 pm

investor4life wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:13 pm
Just FYI, Costco offers Amarr garage doors, installed by your local Amarr dealer. There's a 15% Costco cash back offer through 10/29 to go with it. I don't know much about this brand but would be interested in hearing about peoples' experience, both with this brand and with going the Costco route. (We did a full HVAC replacement last year via Costco and are very pleased.)
Thank you this is great news!

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:49 am

Carefreeap wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:33 pm

Thanks, your post is helpful. As I stated in my earlier post, we replaced the door about 20 years and our tenant really beat up the door. We started having problems last week where the door was hitting the garage door opening mechanism and stopping. My husband somehow got that to stop but now it goes up about a foot and then stops. If you reverse and then start up again it will continue to go up and there are no problems with it closing. We had this problem before after some heavy rains but we've been bone dry for several months. You may have seen that little fire problem north of us. :(

Any idea what causes this problem? It would be nice if the thing worked properly while we complete our purchase and installation process.
Hitting the head unit is a limit issue. Most machines will have two little plastic screws that you can turn through holes in the metal casing. There should be pictures of the door moving in one direction next to each hole and with a turning arrow. Use those to reduce the amount of up travel. You want the door to travel to just above the top of the opening in the wall, opening the door more than the hole doesn't help and just make the operator work harder. If you have a genie unit, or a rare unit, there may be external limits. They will be switches attached to the rail held on with allen screws. You have to physically move them to wear you want them to stop. It's more of a pain and operators don't use these any more, even genie is shying away from them. It's easiest if you disconnect the door from the operator, have one person push it up to where it needs to be, and then you on a ladder move the uppper limit to there. There will be more fine tuning that, but you'll have to feel it out since the switches switch at a certain point and you literally have to feel it or hear it. Also, make sure the safety bolt is there, there should be a hole in the rail near the head unit, make sure a bolt is in it, that stops the door from destroying the head unit, and if it ever gets jammed, just unplug the machine and take out that bolt to relieve some pressure, disconnect the door from the operator and lower the door.

As for the going up and stopping, I would say first make sure you push the button and hold it for a little longer. Sometimes a bad connector will 'stun' the door. Second, I'd say is adjust the force a little. If it's a liftmaster, there should be two little blue knobs on the back of the machie that you turn with a flat head screwdriver. One says up force, one says down force. They both have an increasing arrow and increasing numbers next to them. I always set them to about 6 before I tested them. If yours are less than that, put them to 6. If they are that, increase it a number or two and see if that works.

If it doesn't, let me know, there are a few more things you can do, but those few are by far the easiest things you can do with nothing more than a screwdriver.

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Carefreeap » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:08 am

nickjoy wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:49 am
Carefreeap wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:33 pm

Thanks, your post is helpful. As I stated in my earlier post, we replaced the door about 20 years and our tenant really beat up the door. We started having problems last week where the door was hitting the garage door opening mechanism and stopping. My husband somehow got that to stop but now it goes up about a foot and then stops. If you reverse and then start up again it will continue to go up and there are no problems with it closing. We had this problem before after some heavy rains but we've been bone dry for several months. You may have seen that little fire problem north of us. :(

Any idea what causes this problem? It would be nice if the thing worked properly while we complete our purchase and installation process.
Hitting the head unit is a limit issue. Most machines will have two little plastic screws that you can turn through holes in the metal casing. There should be pictures of the door moving in one direction next to each hole and with a turning arrow. Use those to reduce the amount of up travel. You want the door to travel to just above the top of the opening in the wall, opening the door more than the hole doesn't help and just make the operator work harder. If you have a genie unit, or a rare unit, there may be external limits. They will be switches attached to the rail held on with allen screws. You have to physically move them to wear you want them to stop. It's more of a pain and operators don't use these any more, even genie is shying away from them. It's easiest if you disconnect the door from the operator, have one person push it up to where it needs to be, and then you on a ladder move the uppper limit to there. There will be more fine tuning that, but you'll have to feel it out since the switches switch at a certain point and you literally have to feel it or hear it. Also, make sure the safety bolt is there, there should be a hole in the rail near the head unit, make sure a bolt is in it, that stops the door from destroying the head unit, and if it ever gets jammed, just unplug the machine and take out that bolt to relieve some pressure, disconnect the door from the operator and lower the door.

As for the going up and stopping, I would say first make sure you push the button and hold it for a little longer. Sometimes a bad connector will 'stun' the door. Second, I'd say is adjust the force a little. If it's a liftmaster, there should be two little blue knobs on the back of the machie that you turn with a flat head screwdriver. One says up force, one says down force. They both have an increasing arrow and increasing numbers next to them. I always set them to about 6 before I tested them. If yours are less than that, put them to 6. If they are that, increase it a number or two and see if that works.

If it doesn't, let me know, there are a few more things you can do, but those few are by far the easiest things you can do with nothing more than a screwdriver.
Thanks, we'll give it go. It's odd that it's just acting up again. I thought there might have been something knocked about as it happened right after we had a new electrical box installed and the box is located near the far side of the garage door. The guys were good and careful but there were a few ladders being used and I thought one of the brackets got knocked out of kilter. Any thoughts about what might have happened?

Thanks again. I think it may be a couple of weeks to get the door we want. If I'm going to live with a door for 20 years I'd like to put some thought into getting a good one I like. I'm going to start making calls to get quotes this afternoon.

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:40 am

Carefreeap wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:08 am
Thanks, we'll give it go. It's odd that it's just acting up again. I thought there might have been something knocked about as it happened right after we had a new electrical box installed and the box is located near the far side of the garage door. The guys were good and careful but there were a few ladders being used and I thought one of the brackets got knocked out of kilter. Any thoughts about what might have happened?

Thanks again. I think it may be a couple of weeks to get the door we want. If I'm going to live with a door for 20 years I'd like to put some thought into getting a good one I like. I'm going to start making calls to get quotes this afternoon.
No problem. They could have knocked stuff out, but as long as those backhangs have a kicker and the bolts are tight, they shouldn't move. If you look at the backhangs, there should be a horizontal piece attached to the ceiling, a vertical piece coming straight down to the track, and then a diagonal 'kicker' to reinforce the vertical piece from the other side of the horizontal piece. And that would only affect the door when it's all the way up.

If you're worried about the door being knocked out of alignment, look at the gap between the collar on the roller and the hinge as the door travels. On the roller, right where the shaft goes into the bearing, the metal will be thicker, I call that the collar, it won't go into the hinge and acts as a spacer to protect everything. I always set them up to be tight when the door is down and then get a looser on it's way up. If you can see more than an inch, that's too much. Sometimes you can fix it just by opening the door partially, and then pushing the door to the other side. If both sides have a big gap, you'll have to loosen lag screws on the sides and hammer the tracks a little narrower and then retighten the screws. Or you can loosen some bolts on the backhangs and push them in out out and then retighten them, you don't have to move the bolts to new holes. Please be careful if you loosen the lags, it might not seem like much, but those springs can bend that metal if it's not supported, I have done that before. Don't mess with the lags near the top, and only loosen 1-2 lags at a time.

If you have the money, ask for a model 4200 Taurus, those were awesome doors when I installed them. Pinch proof hinges, the entire door is tested for the R rating, really quiet. But, I'm turning into a salesman. They are expensive, but they really work well. Also, ask to see if you can get upgraded springs. If it's 100-200 bucks it's usually worth it, regular springs are 10,000 cycle life, upgraded ones can go up to 100,000 cycle life, but you probably won't be able to get ones that big.

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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Carefreeap » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:18 pm

nickjoy wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:40 am
Carefreeap wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:08 am
Thanks, we'll give it go. It's odd that it's just acting up again. I thought there might have been something knocked about as it happened right after we had a new electrical box installed and the box is located near the far side of the garage door. The guys were good and careful but there were a few ladders being used and I thought one of the brackets got knocked out of kilter. Any thoughts about what might have happened?

Thanks again. I think it may be a couple of weeks to get the door we want. If I'm going to live with a door for 20 years I'd like to put some thought into getting a good one I like. I'm going to start making calls to get quotes this afternoon.
No problem. They could have knocked stuff out, but as long as those backhangs have a kicker and the bolts are tight, they shouldn't move. If you look at the backhangs, there should be a horizontal piece attached to the ceiling, a vertical piece coming straight down to the track, and then a diagonal 'kicker' to reinforce the vertical piece from the other side of the horizontal piece. And that would only affect the door when it's all the way up.

If you're worried about the door being knocked out of alignment, look at the gap between the collar on the roller and the hinge as the door travels. On the roller, right where the shaft goes into the bearing, the metal will be thicker, I call that the collar, it won't go into the hinge and acts as a spacer to protect everything. I always set them up to be tight when the door is down and then get a looser on it's way up. If you can see more than an inch, that's too much. Sometimes you can fix it just by opening the door partially, and then pushing the door to the other side. If both sides have a big gap, you'll have to loosen lag screws on the sides and hammer the tracks a little narrower and then retighten the screws. Or you can loosen some bolts on the backhangs and push them in out out and then retighten them, you don't have to move the bolts to new holes. Please be careful if you loosen the lags, it might not seem like much, but those springs can bend that metal if it's not supported, I have done that before. Don't mess with the lags near the top, and only loosen 1-2 lags at a time.

If you have the money, ask for a model 4200 Taurus, those were awesome doors when I installed them. Pinch proof hinges, the entire door is tested for the R rating, really quiet. But, I'm turning into a salesman. They are expensive, but they really work well. Also, ask to see if you can get upgraded springs. If it's 100-200 bucks it's usually worth it, regular springs are 10,000 cycle life, upgraded ones can go up to 100,000 cycle life, but you probably won't be able to get ones that big.
Haven't gone through your trouble-shooting list yet but thought you'd get a chuckle that your initial advice, keep holding the button down due to loose or corroded contacts is working! :beer

We still need to get a new garage door and have one appointment with a local firm set up. Thank you again for your helpful advice! :happy

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sunny_socal
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by sunny_socal » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:07 am

investor4life wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:13 pm
Just FYI, Costco offers Amarr garage doors, installed by your local Amarr dealer. There's a 15% Costco cash back offer through 10/29 to go with it. I don't know much about this brand but would be interested in hearing about peoples' experience, both with this brand and with going the Costco route. (We did a full HVAC replacement last year via Costco and are very pleased.)
Thanks!

I was actually going to jump on this 'deal' until I found out that Costco's prices are among the highest despite the 15% discount. If you don't want to shop around it's better than nothing. I'll probably wait and get a few bids from local installers.

Purpose311
Posts: 130
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Purpose311 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:00 am

Glad this topic was brought up. My father is buying my grandparent's home in a suburb of Los Angeles. It is a detached garage and they are looking at a carriage style. We spoke to a local garage door company that received very positive reviews. They came out and measured and gave a bid. I have copy and pasted what he said. I would greatly appreciate any input from others:

We'll need to use lowhead track for clearance and lumber to backfill the opening.

Lowhead track is $150, and the lumber needed adds up to $25.

Regarding door style, take a look at the series two designs from Clopay in the brochure we sent you and let us know your thoughts. (He mentioned that this door would be about $3,500 installed)

There is another door in a similar style for less. The Wayne-Dalton 9405 is $1999, installed.

The only concern is that the lowest height it can be ordered as is 7 feet tall. The door stacks out at approximately 6-11 & 1/4.

In your case, your opening is 6 feet 10-1/4" tall in the middle. The sides are 6-10 & 3/4 left and 6-11 &1/4 right, outside looking in. We don't know if the smaller measurement in the middle is because of the concrete crowning or the head bowing. If the concrete is crowned, that means the door will rest at that point, because the door has to be level.

What this means to you is that the 7 foot high Wayne-Dalton door may appear too tall for your opening. There will be at least 1" overlap behind the header, and we then the top weather strip will cover about another inch. The top reveal between the top of the door and where the windows begin is only 2 inches. The door may look like it's too big for the opening.

With the Coachman, we can order the door as a 6'-9" high door, and use weather strip to cover up the gap.

nickjoy
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:58 pm

Purpose - You'll be fine with a 7 foot door. You won't even notice that little bit on the sides or the top. If you really want to avoid it, just get a plain door with no designs. That way there wouldn't be anything to gauge the distance with. Also, if you're getting a carriage house door with those nice black wrought iron things, be aware that they are literally stuck on. They are made out of iron, but they have a piece of paper on the back and some super good epoxy underneath it that the guy will place on the door himself after he's done installing the door. So, he technically could space them to make the door look the correct size if you're super worried about it.

Also, if you can, try and steer clear from Low HR tracks, they work, but the door works better with regular tracks. But, if you need them you need them.

Purpose311
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Purpose311 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:34 pm

nickjoy wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:58 pm
Purpose - You'll be fine with a 7 foot door. You won't even notice that little bit on the sides or the top. If you really want to avoid it, just get a plain door with no designs. That way there wouldn't be anything to gauge the distance with. Also, if you're getting a carriage house door with those nice black wrought iron things, be aware that they are literally stuck on. They are made out of iron, but they have a piece of paper on the back and some super good epoxy underneath it that the guy will place on the door himself after he's done installing the door. So, he technically could space them to make the door look the correct size if you're super worried about it.

Also, if you can, try and steer clear from Low HR tracks, they work, but the door works better with regular tracks. But, if you need them you need them.
Unfortunately we have to do the low hr tracks. what are your thoughts on pricing and what brand would you go with for a carriage style? I was thinking of avoiding the windows but I do like the look. Since it is a detached garage, am I wasting money going with insulation?

likegarden
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by likegarden » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:24 pm

We have a 2-car garage with one overhead door per car. Our doors were solid wood with very strong (and dangerous when broken) springs. I went to Home Depot and let them replace everything, new insulated doors, new openers. Since the doors weigh now so much less than the old ones, springs are no longer so powerful and dangerous. HD had various suppliers and we went with the doors my neighbors seem to have. Ten years ago the whole job did cost about $2,500, and we have no problem since.

nickjoy
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:06 pm

Purpose311 wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:34 pm
Unfortunately we have to do the low hr tracks. what are your thoughts on pricing and what brand would you go with for a carriage style? I was thinking of avoiding the windows but I do like the look. Since it is a detached garage, am I wasting money going with insulation?
Pricing for carriage house doors is just plain expensive. There's no way around it. I've installed 6K carriage house doors. Is this a double wide or single wide garage door? For a double wide (16') 2 grand is cheap, really cheap for carriage house doors. Although it does depend on the add-ons you get. The more iron stickers, and fancier imprints on the door really increase the price of the door. 2 grand sounds just about right +/- 400. (I've been out of garages for 4-5 years and pricing changes). Remember, an operator is on top of this price, usually about $500.

Personally, I would try and steer clear of WD doors, their commercial line is pretty good, but their residential line isn't the best, but it was getting better when I left my fathers company about 4-5 years ago. Your local garage company will know more about their current offerings.

If you have a detached, uninsulated garage, then insulated doors are overkill. Where it will help is if you do a lot of work in this garage in the summer and the sun beats on the door side of the building. Then, that insulation will help keep it cool in there while you work. It will help if you put a portable heater in there in the winter too. But usually it takes so long to truly heat up a big air space like a garage, you don't notice the benefits until it's dark and dinner time. If you don't do a lot of work in there, go for uninsulated. They're way cheaper and a little tiny bit noisier, but if it's detached, who cares. Save the money, invest it in an index, by the time these doors fail, it'll have accrued enough to buy top of the line doors.

If they're single wide, you can get extension springs. These are cheaper, cheaper to replace springs, and easier maintenance. To me, they always seemed a little more rickety and take more finesse to tune them right, but easier and cheaper overall. Torsion springs are better mechanically, but are more expensive. Don't be afraid of an extension spring breaking and flying all over the place. Nowadays it's federal or state code to install a safety wire with all extensions springs. Basically a wire that goes down the middle of extension springs from the backhangs to the wall and if the springs break, that wire keeps it contained.

If it's a double wide, they do make extension springs, but the company will probably force you to go torsion, which is the right move. There's a lot more metal with a double wide and the supports are a lot farther apart.

If you like the look of windows, get them. They really do make a door look better. If you want them for light in the garage, get them in the top panel. If you want to be able to look out, and for people to look in, get them in the 3rd panel (from the top).

Sorry if I went off on tangents, slow day today, and there's a lot of little things that go into a door.

bri4jenn
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by bri4jenn » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:11 pm

[restarted thread, check posting dates - admin alex]
nickjoy wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:02 pm
Don't trust those R factor ratings. Several companies test their garage door by cutting out a 1x1 square and putting that in a machine to test heat transfer. They also seal up the edges with caulk during this test to test only the panel. Well that's great, but not practical in the real world. If you push on a garage door, it should move a little bit, so there are gaps around the edges, and it's in 4 or 5 sections so there's the gaps between the sections. If they would test the entire door, that R value would be much, much lower. There is 1 or two companies out there that test the entire door, those are the top of the line doors and man are they great, but pricey.

If you have a row of glass, take the R rating of the door and multiply it by 0.75. A row of glass is essentially no insulation at all in that panel so you have to lower the total R rating. The tests for R ratings do not include glass.
Which companies or lines of doors test the entire door for R values. You mention 1 or 2 companies do. Which ones? I have a master bedroom over my garage and it is always cold from the garage. Also, what insulation is used between the door panels to seal out the cold.

I was thinking of getting glass, don't they make double pane with argon gas versions like house windows that would provide a decent amount of R values.

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just frank
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by just frank » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:46 am

bri4jenn wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:11 pm
[restarted thread, check posting dates - admin alex]
nickjoy wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:02 pm
Don't trust those R factor ratings. Several companies test their garage door by cutting out a 1x1 square and putting that in a machine to test heat transfer. They also seal up the edges with caulk during this test to test only the panel. Well that's great, but not practical in the real world. If you push on a garage door, it should move a little bit, so there are gaps around the edges, and it's in 4 or 5 sections so there's the gaps between the sections. If they would test the entire door, that R value would be much, much lower. There is 1 or two companies out there that test the entire door, those are the top of the line doors and man are they great, but pricey.

If you have a row of glass, take the R rating of the door and multiply it by 0.75. A row of glass is essentially no insulation at all in that panel so you have to lower the total R rating. The tests for R ratings do not include glass.
Which companies or lines of doors test the entire door for R values. You mention 1 or 2 companies do. Which ones? I have a master bedroom over my garage and it is always cold from the garage. Also, what insulation is used between the door panels to seal out the cold.

I was thinking of getting glass, don't they make double pane with argon gas versions like house windows that would provide a decent amount of R values.
Another issue to consider is whether the walls of the garage are insulated. If its not then a $$ door is not going to help much. Your best solution may be to insulate the garage ceiling and BR floor, or to upsize the heat delivery to the BR.

nickjoy
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:44 am

Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:06 am

bri4jenn wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:11 pm
[restarted thread, check posting dates - admin alex]
nickjoy wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:02 pm
Don't trust those R factor ratings. Several companies test their garage door by cutting out a 1x1 square and putting that in a machine to test heat transfer. They also seal up the edges with caulk during this test to test only the panel. Well that's great, but not practical in the real world. If you push on a garage door, it should move a little bit, so there are gaps around the edges, and it's in 4 or 5 sections so there's the gaps between the sections. If they would test the entire door, that R value would be much, much lower. There is 1 or two companies out there that test the entire door, those are the top of the line doors and man are they great, but pricey.

If you have a row of glass, take the R rating of the door and multiply it by 0.75. A row of glass is essentially no insulation at all in that panel so you have to lower the total R rating. The tests for R ratings do not include glass.
Which companies or lines of doors test the entire door for R values. You mention 1 or 2 companies do. Which ones? I have a master bedroom over my garage and it is always cold from the garage. Also, what insulation is used between the door panels to seal out the cold.

I was thinking of getting glass, don't they make double pane with argon gas versions like house windows that would provide a decent amount of R values.
Hey There,

Horman doors are really good and they test the whole door. I forget a lot of the others (I havent installed doors in 5 years) just from not doing it.

The insulation they use is basically styrofoam, it might be a little nicer than that, but it's essentially that, some type of foam. All of the glass sections made today are double paned, and they still have almost 0 R factor. There are triple paned glass sections out there (i forget who makes them) but they're not really worth it. If you want the door to function, then don't get glass. But I know your pain, sometimes your garage looks really good with a row of glass.

Don't add insulated to the door yourself, I know it is very tempting, but if you add too much you'll throw off the weight of the door and things won't work right. You'll get away with it for a little bit, but sooner or later the motor will blow out early or the springs will break faster. If you do add insulation, make sure you get a guy to come out with a bandolier, weight the door, and cut springs to length if it doesn't end up being a standard size.

A bandolier is basically a 12-30 foot coil of spring that shops buy so they can make custom length/strength springs on the spot. They have to weight the door on the spot, call up a company (Service Spring Corp. most likely), have them do the math on the diameter of the spring wire, diameter of the coil, and length, and then the guy will cut the spring with a torch in your driveway and put it in.

As for what Just Frank said, the building insulation will matter as well, but if the master bedroom is overtop the garage, that garage is most likely insulated. Also, an insulated door will still help a whole bunch on an uninsulated garage if the sun hits the door.

dsmclone
Posts: 36
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by dsmclone » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:36 am

Anyone have any recommendations on buying a door that doesn't rust? Our house is about 13 years old and on one side of the garage door, all the way at the bottom, there is a little rust. I believe this is happening because in the winter this portion of the garage has a little water/salt that pools up. It's usually not a lot of water but enough that after 13 years it caused that damage.

nickjoy
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:46 pm

dsmclone wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:36 am
Anyone have any recommendations on buying a door that doesn't rust? Our house is about 13 years old and on one side of the garage door, all the way at the bottom, there is a little rust. I believe this is happening because in the winter this portion of the garage has a little water/salt that pools up. It's usually not a lot of water but enough that after 13 years it caused that damage.
Install a drain there in front of your garage door in the ground. Your drive probably slopes down to your garage right? Look for a product called storm shield or storm threshold for garage doors. It will help keep water out of your garage door and you can install it yourself. It really does work. There will be a tiny bump when you drive your car over it. It will stop your door from sitting in water as much. Not much can be done about splashing/driving rain.

Or you could hose off your garage door a few times every winter. Just make sure the water doesn't freeze the door to the ground when you use the opener to open the door. I've used hair dryers to fix that problem before.

dsmclone
Posts: 36
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by dsmclone » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:54 pm

nickjoy wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:46 pm
dsmclone wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:36 am
Anyone have any recommendations on buying a door that doesn't rust? Our house is about 13 years old and on one side of the garage door, all the way at the bottom, there is a little rust. I believe this is happening because in the winter this portion of the garage has a little water/salt that pools up. It's usually not a lot of water but enough that after 13 years it caused that damage.
Install a drain there in front of your garage door in the ground. Your drive probably slopes down to your garage right? Look for a product called storm shield or storm threshold for garage doors. It will help keep water out of your garage door and you can install it yourself. It really does work. There will be a tiny bump when you drive your car over it. It will stop your door from sitting in water as much. Not much can be done about splashing/driving rain.

Or you could hose off your garage door a few times every winter. Just make sure the water doesn't freeze the door to the ground when you use the opener to open the door. I've used hair dryers to fix that problem before.
It's actually opposite, our driveway goes downhill.

I do think that putting in that Storm Shield thing would have worked. I'll have to use this when we replace the door.

bri4jenn
Posts: 6
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by bri4jenn » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:06 pm

nickjoy wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:06 am
bri4jenn wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:11 pm
[restarted thread, check posting dates - admin alex]
nickjoy wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:02 pm
Don't trust those R factor ratings. Several companies test their garage door by cutting out a 1x1 square and putting that in a machine to test heat transfer. They also seal up the edges with caulk during this test to test only the panel. Well that's great, but not practical in the real world. If you push on a garage door, it should move a little bit, so there are gaps around the edges, and it's in 4 or 5 sections so there's the gaps between the sections. If they would test the entire door, that R value would be much, much lower. There is 1 or two companies out there that test the entire door, those are the top of the line doors and man are they great, but pricey.

If you have a row of glass, take the R rating of the door and multiply it by 0.75. A row of glass is essentially no insulation at all in that panel so you have to lower the total R rating. The tests for R ratings do not include glass.
Which companies or lines of doors test the entire door for R values. You mention 1 or 2 companies do. Which ones? I have a master bedroom over my garage and it is always cold from the garage. Also, what insulation is used between the door panels to seal out the cold.

I was thinking of getting glass, don't they make double pane with argon gas versions like house windows that would provide a decent amount of R values.
Hey There,

Horman doors are really good and they test the whole door. I forget a lot of the others (I havent installed doors in 5 years) just from not doing it.

The insulation they use is basically styrofoam, it might be a little nicer than that, but it's essentially that, some type of foam. All of the glass sections made today are double paned, and they still have almost 0 R factor. There are triple paned glass sections out there (i forget who makes them) but they're not really worth it. If you want the door to function, then don't get glass. But I know your pain, sometimes your garage looks really good with a row of glass.

Don't add insulated to the door yourself, I know it is very tempting, but if you add too much you'll throw off the weight of the door and things won't work right. You'll get away with it for a little bit, but sooner or later the motor will blow out early or the springs will break faster. If you do add insulation, make sure you get a guy to come out with a bandolier, weight the door, and cut springs to length if it doesn't end up being a standard size.

A bandolier is basically a 12-30 foot coil of spring that shops buy so they can make custom length/strength springs on the spot. They have to weight the door on the spot, call up a company (Service Spring Corp. most likely), have them do the math on the diameter of the spring wire, diameter of the coil, and length, and then the guy will cut the spring with a torch in your driveway and put it in.

As for what Just Frank said, the building insulation will matter as well, but if the master bedroom is overtop the garage, that garage is most likely insulated. Also, an insulated door will still help a whole bunch on an uninsulated garage if the sun hits the door.
In looking how the Hormann panels fit together, they have a tung and groove that overlap to provide a good seal. Is there a gasket between panels from any of the manufacturers. It would seem the most heat loose would between panels and not through the panels.

My plan is to start with new garage door since my builder's grade is 17 years old and failing. It does not seal to the ground and it loose against the front wall of the garage causing air to come in the ends of the panels. To help with this I was going to use Green Hinge System. http://www.greenhingesystem.com/
Anyone have any luck with them. They get good reviews and would seem to help alleviate this issue.

Then I want to see how warm the garage is after the new door and decide if I want to insulate if it is not done already. I may drill a test hole.

nickjoy
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:44 am

Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:09 am

bri4jenn wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:06 pm

In looking how the Hormann panels fit together, they have a tung and groove that overlap to provide a good seal. Is there a gasket between panels from any of the manufacturers. It would seem the most heat loose would between panels and not through the panels.

My plan is to start with new garage door since my builder's grade is 17 years old and failing. It does not seal to the ground and it loose against the front wall of the garage causing air to come in the ends of the panels. To help with this I was going to use Green Hinge System. http://www.greenhingesystem.com/
Anyone have any luck with them. They get good reviews and would seem to help alleviate this issue.

Then I want to see how warm the garage is after the new door and decide if I want to insulate if it is not done already. I may drill a test hole.
Don't use that. When the operator is installed correctly there will be a little bit of pressure forward from the carrier onto the door (the t-rail will be slightly bent up) which essentially pushes the door down to create a good seal on the bottom. Also, when you install the door, you install the tracks, then put the bottom panel in the track, then put the next panel on top of that, and then install the hinges that attach them together. This makes is so that the weight of the panel is holding it down before you screw the hinges to the panel. If you get a good quality door, these hinges won't move at all (unless you hit the door). Also, that system looks like it'll push the door towards the opening which will create a lot of friction for when the door is moving. Also, the weatherstrip on three sides is installed with a certain amount of tension on it so that it lays flat against the door. Too little tension, and it doesn't touch the door well and makes a bad seal. Too much tension and the little flap will actually curve away from the door and create a gap for air to come in around the top and sides.

You will always have some air movement. This is a door and not a wall. Even entry doors aren't 100% air tight. The only door that air tight is a submarine door.

Also, some Horman doors have these different square hinges that the Green ones won't work with. The horman hinges are a lot of the time this two piece hing system.

My $0.02, just get a decent quality door and you won't have to worry about anything. Getting the hole in the wall accurate so you don't have a crap ton of weatherstrip unsupported helps a whole bunch too. Stand behind an old door and most of the air movement you'll feel is from the edges.

bri4jenn
Posts: 6
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by bri4jenn » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:53 pm

nickjoy wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:09 am
Don't use that. When the operator is installed correctly there will be a little bit of pressure forward from the carrier onto the door (the t-rail will be slightly bent up) which essentially pushes the door down to create a good seal on the bottom. Also, when you install the door, you install the tracks, then put the bottom panel in the track, then put the next panel on top of that, and then install the hinges that attach them together. This makes is so that the weight of the panel is holding it down before you screw the hinges to the panel. If you get a good quality door, these hinges won't move at all (unless you hit the door). Also, that system looks like it'll push the door towards the opening which will create a lot of friction for when the door is moving. Also, the weatherstrip on three sides is installed with a certain amount of tension on it so that it lays flat against the door. Too little tension, and it doesn't touch the door well and makes a bad seal. Too much tension and the little flap will actually curve away from the door and create a gap for air to come in around the top and sides.

You will always have some air movement. This is a door and not a wall. Even entry doors aren't 100% air tight. The only door that air tight is a submarine door.

Also, some Horman doors have these different square hinges that the Green ones won't work with. The horman hinges are a lot of the time this two piece hing system.

My $0.02, just get a decent quality door and you won't have to worry about anything. Getting the hole in the wall accurate so you don't have a crap ton of weatherstrip unsupported helps a whole bunch too. Stand behind an old door and most of the air movement you'll feel is from the edges.
Thanks for the information. I will have them install new tracks so they can get the hole in the wall right and stay away from the Green Hinge System. When I stand behind my old door, I see gaps mainly on the sides. So what you are saying is that the track most likely should have been moved closer to the front wall or maybe the door got bumped at some point.

My Top 3
Haas Door Insulated 2000 series
Raynor Aspen AP 200
Hormann Taurus 4250 series

Which you consider all of these good quality doors? Is there one you would pick over the other?

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:50 pm

bri4jenn wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:53 pm
I will have them install new tracks so they can get the hole in the wall right.
You can also adjust the hole by replacing or adjusting the trim. This is easier (or at least safer) DIY than moving the tracks. It may require cutting boards to width instead of using commodity sizes.

nickjoy
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:44 am

Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:30 pm

Horman 4250 (They were 4200's back in my day lol). Absolutely phenomenal door, super quiet, lasts a long time. They used to come with this really really good looking vinyl wrap that looked just like wood. It was a really good wrap and didn't have that plastic sheen on them. They were beautiful. But they discontinued it.

I've never heard of HAAS, but that doesn't mean they're bad. My shop just never used them. Or they could've bought out another company (like how Horman bought GADCO). I just checked their website and do like how they show the R value of the entire door and the section so you can see the difference. https://www.haasdoor.com/about/index/html

I never liked Raynor's. But some people like them.

If you're getting a new door, see if you can get the installer to use adjustable tracks instead of fixed tracks. Basically it makes the two L brackets that attach the track to the wall have a slot where you can adjust it in/out from the wall. It's easier to install since you don't have to use shims and you can anchor them to the wall whereever you want which is nice since some garages have a foot of concrete at the bottom of the hole. It is possible to convert non-adjustable tracks into adjustable tracks, but you need to take a saw z'all to those L brackets, cut them off, and install the adjustable ones (the correct size ones).

Yes, you can make up for a bad hole in the wall a little with trim. I've installed trim with only 3/8'' of trim on the actual jam board, the rest hanging off to make up the distance. But if you want it right, the building needs to be built correctly, and if it's not you can get these plastic jam boards that are basically an extra piece of wood that you can fill in that gap with, and then you attach the trim to that. Use the plastic ones rather than wood so you won't have to replace it and so you won't have to worry about expansion/moisture. Caulk the edges of it. Trust me. They fix an oversized hole, an undersized hole isn't a problem unless your vehicle can't fit in.

Basically they're a 3/8''x4'' board to help close in the hole in the wall so that the trim isn't over extended.

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victorb
Posts: 212
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Re: New Garage Doors

Post by victorb » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:32 pm

We installed new Midland Doors 15 years ago and have had great service from them. They are a metal skin with interior insulation. They are very quiet and exceptionally strong. My father in law has metal doors, no insulation - single skin and they are very noisy/clanky going up and down. They also clank when you open or close the door into the garage.

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just frank
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:13 pm
Location: Philly Metro

Re: New Garage Doors

Post by just frank » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:03 pm

victorb wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:32 pm
We installed new Midland Doors 15 years ago and have had great service from them. They are a metal skin with interior insulation. They are very quiet and exceptionally strong. My father in law has metal doors, no insulation - single skin and they are very noisy/clanky going up and down. They also clank when you open or close the door into the garage.
The clanking/noise is often from the metal rollers. They make rollers with plastic tires that are a lot quieter. And vibration mounts to make the door opener motor quieter.

bri4jenn
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:02 pm

Re: New Garage Doors

Post by bri4jenn » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:35 pm

nickjoy wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:30 pm
If you're getting a new door, see if you can get the installer to use adjustable tracks instead of fixed tracks. Basically it makes the two L brackets that attach the track to the wall have a slot where you can adjust it in/out from the wall. It's easier to install since you don't have to use shims and you can anchor them to the wall whereever you want which is nice since some garages have a foot of concrete at the bottom of the hole. It is possible to convert non-adjustable tracks into adjustable tracks, but you need to take a saw z'all to those L brackets, cut them off, and install the adjustable ones (the correct size ones)
I looked at my existing track and it is not adjustable. Is this what you meant by adjustable track (brackets with slotted holes)? See the first picture in this link. http://www.home-repair-central.com/adju ... track.html. or this https://www.grainger.com/product/36R905 ... adType^PLA

I appreciate your help.

bri4jenn
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:02 pm

Re: New Garage Doors

Post by bri4jenn » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:38 pm

victorb wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:32 pm
We installed new Midland Doors 15 years ago and have had great service from them. They are a metal skin with interior insulation. They are very quiet and exceptionally strong. My father in law has metal doors, no insulation - single skin and they are very noisy/clanky going up and down. They also clank when you open or close the door into the garage.
The midland doors seem nice however I don't seem some information on their site.
http://www.midlandgaragedoor.com/reside ... eel-panel/
Do the doors have full thermal breaks (weather gaskets) between the panels?
Is the R value for the whole door or a section?

nickjoy
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:44 am

Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:31 am

bri4jenn wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:35 pm
nickjoy wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:30 pm
If you're getting a new door, see if you can get the installer to use adjustable tracks instead of fixed tracks. Basically it makes the two L brackets that attach the track to the wall have a slot where you can adjust it in/out from the wall. It's easier to install since you don't have to use shims and you can anchor them to the wall whereever you want which is nice since some garages have a foot of concrete at the bottom of the hole. It is possible to convert non-adjustable tracks into adjustable tracks, but you need to take a saw z'all to those L brackets, cut them off, and install the adjustable ones (the correct size ones)
I looked at my existing track and it is not adjustable. Is this what you meant by adjustable track (brackets with slotted holes)? See the first picture in this link. http://www.home-repair-central.com/adju ... track.html. or this https://www.grainger.com/product/36R905 ... adType^PLA

I appreciate your help.
2nd picture. You can convert fixed track into adjustable. Just drill out the rivet that holds the fixed bracket to the track, then use these special bolts called 'track bolts' to attach the long leg of the adjustable bracket to the track. Then lag the short leg of the bracket to the well. Then you can slide the track in and out.

Don't use normal bolts in lieu of track bolts, carriage bolts might work but have a good chance of making a loud pop everytime the roller goes over it. Track bolts have these ribs right under their head to grab metal and to be very flat when you tighten them so that roller won't 'pop' over them.

Doing this yourself is starting to get out of the DIY area of garage door repair. I always set it up so that the bottom of the door was a little tighter to the hole than the top so it wouldn't bind. It's one of those things you gotta do it for several dozen doors before you really get a feel for it. But if you want to try it, go ahead. Don't put the lag in the same place as the fixed bracket's lag was.

nickjoy
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:44 am

Re: New Garage Doors

Post by nickjoy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:37 am

bri4jenn wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:35 pm
nickjoy wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:30 pm
If you're getting a new door, see if you can get the installer to use adjustable tracks instead of fixed tracks. Basically it makes the two L brackets that attach the track to the wall have a slot where you can adjust it in/out from the wall. It's easier to install since you don't have to use shims and you can anchor them to the wall whereever you want which is nice since some garages have a foot of concrete at the bottom of the hole. It is possible to convert non-adjustable tracks into adjustable tracks, but you need to take a saw z'all to those L brackets, cut them off, and install the adjustable ones (the correct size ones)
I looked at my existing track and it is not adjustable. Is this what you meant by adjustable track (brackets with slotted holes)? See the first picture in this link. http://www.home-repair-central.com/adju ... track.html. or this https://www.grainger.com/product/36R905 ... adType^PLA

I appreciate your help.
I also forgot to mention, the bracket in the second picture is a number 9, The bracket sizes range from I think 4-12 or around there. The numbers correlate to how long that long leg of the bracket is. Since the slot doesn't run the entire length of the bracket, you gotta pick the right length. The way I always did it was to grab a couple and put them next to the door and see which one would work the best. Obviously you can't do that if you're ordering them.

If you get one too long or too short you can always grind the slot to be bigger in them or cut the end off so you don't have a big metal tab jutting into your garage right at shin height, but now you're getting into enough effort that calling a guy is probably easier/better.

bri4jenn
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:02 pm

Re: New Garage Doors

Post by bri4jenn » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:43 pm

nickjoy wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:31 am
bri4jenn wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:35 pm
nickjoy wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:30 pm
If you're getting a new door, see if you can get the installer to use adjustable tracks instead of fixed tracks. Basically it makes the two L brackets that attach the track to the wall have a slot where you can adjust it in/out from the wall. It's easier to install since you don't have to use shims and you can anchor them to the wall whereever you want which is nice since some garages have a foot of concrete at the bottom of the hole. It is possible to convert non-adjustable tracks into adjustable tracks, but you need to take a saw z'all to those L brackets, cut them off, and install the adjustable ones (the correct size ones)
I looked at my existing track and it is not adjustable. Is this what you meant by adjustable track (brackets with slotted holes)? See the first picture in this link. http://www.home-repair-central.com/adju ... track.html. or this https://www.grainger.com/product/36R905 ... adType^PLA

I appreciate your help.
2nd picture. You can convert fixed track into adjustable. Just drill out the rivet that holds the fixed bracket to the track, then use these special bolts called 'track bolts' to attach the long leg of the adjustable bracket to the track. Then lag the short leg of the bracket to the well. Then you can slide the track in and out.

Don't use normal bolts in lieu of track bolts, carriage bolts might work but have a good chance of making a loud pop everytime the roller goes over it. Track bolts have these ribs right under their head to grab metal and to be very flat when you tighten them so that roller won't 'pop' over them.

Doing this yourself is starting to get out of the DIY area of garage door repair. I always set it up so that the bottom of the door was a little tighter to the hole than the top so it wouldn't bind. It's one of those things you gotta do it for several dozen doors before you really get a feel for it. But if you want to try it, go ahead. Don't put the lag in the same place as the fixed bracket's lag was.
Thanks. I am going get someone to do the work. I just need to know what to ask how. I will see if he stocks different adjustable bracket numbers and to make sure he uses track bolts.

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