Frustrated Losing Weight!

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gd
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by gd » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:34 am

Like financial frugality, I've found it's a lifestyle issue. No junk food in house, minimize processed food (that's *most* of what grocery stores sell!) limited portions on the table, avoid eating in restaurants, never fast food, take brown-bag food whenever possible, stop eating when not hungry vs. when bloated. No habitual before-sleep eating. Most of all, train myself to accept brief hunger as normal. Mild hunger is the feeling of success and progress, not a problem. The idea that you need a drink cup in your hand all day long, that you must stop at a fast food restaurant at the first hunger pang, that every place you spend any time needs vending machines that should be freely used, is a recent cultural development.

Metabolism is like eyesight, athletic ability, attractiveness, hair, intelligence-- yours is not the same as anyone else's. Maybe you have stronger eating urges than others, maybe you put weight on faster and lose it slower. You are what you are, figure it out and deal with it.

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dm200
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by dm200 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:11 am

This has been my successful (and LOW COST) approach to reaching and maintaining a healthful weight. I based my "approach" on things I can (and will) do the rest of my life. I do not count calories. I looked at groups that have low rates of obesity, etc. and live long, healthful lives - and tailor my "lifestyle" in a similar way. Moved toward whole food plant based eating and regular, almost daily, exercise.

The "weight loss" industry rakes in BILLIONS of dollars and is, in general, a long term failure. In fact, economic success of most expensieve weight loss programs depends on failure. People keep going back over and over -- and spending even more money. What other industry does so well on failure? If a car company sold a bad model, they would lose business. Weight loss programs that fail over and over and over - make MORE money by suckering in the folks who keep trying failed programs and sign them up for expensive programs.

Look at Oprah! She keeps losing weight, sells magazines, products, etc. Then, she gets fat again - does another "program" and rakes in millions more when she loses weight again.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:29 am

I removed a post on Page 2 of this thread which linked to a YouTube video on the conspiracy of the food industry to add sugar to many foods. There were also comments about artificial sweeteners. This constitutes medical advice, especially since the OP has diabetes.

Please stay on-topic.
lucky3 wrote:On too many medications fighting my type 2 diabetes...weight loss would help a lot I know. Trend diet work in the beginning but it's not something you can live with. Anyone have any suggestions for low carb breakfast...I know what to do, I just need to find the right motivation...perhaps the threat of taking insulin will be motivation enough.

Lucky3
Rants about the "weight loss" industry are off-topic.
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mrc
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by mrc » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:31 am

Lots of good advice here already.

I follow a low carb “real food” diet. By necessity, it is higher in fat than many sources consider healthy (the calories must come from somewhere). Here is a sample, omitting “free” foods like dark greens, non-starchy veggies, mushrooms. Hunger is never an issue, even during calorie restriction for weight loss.

Breakfast: 2 pasture-raised eggs, 1 slice uncured bacon (pasture-raised pigs), ¼ avocado.
Lunch: 1-2oz good quality (real) cheese, 1oz macadamia nuts
Dinner: 3oz smoked salmon, 1-2oz goat cheese, ½oz Greek olives, 1oz toasted pumpkin seeds, 1oz toasted unsweetened coconut
Coffee with grass-fed half-n-half

Recently have enjoyed 1/3c blueberries or 1/2c fresh strawberries until they go out of season and are less tasty. The nutritional bang for the carb buck of (unsweetened) berries is worth it.

You can read up on: using pasture raised animal products (to increase omega 3 and decrease omega 6 to reduce inflammation), and of the three macro-nutrients, carbs are the only ones that are non-essential. You can Google essential fatty acids (fish oil is high omega-3), and essential amino acids (protein), but there is no essential carb.

I have heard it said “You cannot out-exercise your mouth.” Also: “Diet to lose pounds, exercise to lose inches.”

Find something that works for you, and stick with it. If you would like any more details than I can safely post, feel free to PM me.
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finite_difference
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by finite_difference » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:44 am

There seems to be this whole diet vs exercise debate going on right now. Kind of like nature vs nurture. The science is getting updated as scientists learn more, but there has been a lot of bad nutrition advice in the US that was based on science, which later turned out to be pretty wrong. For example, for a while it was said that calories were basically all that mattered, provided you got your necessary vitamins, etc. Not so much any more. In the 50's, companies almost eliminated breastfeeding thanks to scientifically engineered formulas, which also turned out to be really not very good. Nowadays formulas are much, much better obviously.

I tend to side with old and proven vs new and scientific. And I think diet and exercise are both necessary. There was a study out that found active smokers were more healthy than inactive non-smokers. That's pretty crazy.

I will say that I think one of the under appreciated things about exercise are the psychological benefits. I find it's easier to eat healthier if you exercise regularly. I also think regular weekly group activities are really helpful to stay motivated.

There are many roads to Dublin, so figure out what works for you.
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by randomguy » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:08 am

finite_difference wrote:
I tend to side with old and proven vs new and scientific. And I think diet and exercise are both necessary. There was a study out that found active smokers were more healthy than inactive non-smokers. That's pretty crazy.
Why is that shocking? A good reason people are sedentary are health issues. So you are comparing smokers that can still move with all the people who have issues that limit mobility.

finite_difference
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by finite_difference » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:32 am

randomguy wrote:
finite_difference wrote:
I tend to side with old and proven vs new and scientific. And I think diet and exercise are both necessary. There was a study out that found active smokers were more healthy than inactive non-smokers. That's pretty crazy.
Why is that shocking? A good reason people are sedentary are health issues. So you are comparing smokers that can still move with all the people who have issues that limit mobility.
It was shocking because that was supposedly being taken into account. They were not selecting smokers who could move vs non-smokers that couldn't. They were looking at how fitness affected smokers and non-smokers. Here is an article about one of the studies (there are multiple): http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/20 ... s-smoking/

I don't want to derail the thread, just want to point out that you want to do at least a little bit of exercise, that's all. Hopefully that is not controversial.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

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unclescrooge
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by unclescrooge » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:59 am

letsgobobby wrote:My addition to this thread is to eat mostly vegetables. Not fruits and vegetables, but vegetables.

Other than that, to rehash:

Read Michael Pollan

Eat food
Not too much
Mostly plants

Eat food - not ingredients but simple, pronounceable, unadulterated and minimally processed food recognizable by your grandparents. This pretty much eliminates everything in a package.

Among plants a few are no good for you. Potatoes and white rice come to mind.

That's about it.

So eat lots of vegetables especially green leafy vegetables but a huge variety, the more the merrier.

Eat fruit but all fruit is not a freebie because of the sugar; low glycemic load fruits are fine as much as you want - but ten pounds of cherries isn't good for you. A pound of strawberries is probably ok.

Sample:
Breakfast - steel cut oats, skim milk, raspberries, an egg or two
Snack - sesame spinach Japanese style, light on the sugar
lunch - grilled chicken, tomato and corn over arugula, romaine, mint, basil, plus an apple.
Snack - small handful of nuts
Dinner - grilled salmon, brown rice, 3 vegetable cold salad plus roasted zucchini chips plus roasted pear with cinnamon for dessert.

Etc

Vegetable heavy. Not fruits and vegetables, but vegetables.

If you only ate vegetables I promise you would lose a ton of weight. Excluding white rice, potatoes, etc.
+1

Technically, rice is a grain, and potatoes and carrots are roots....none of which are "vegetables".

We all need to eat more actual vegetables.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by randomguy » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:28 pm

finite_difference wrote:
randomguy wrote:
finite_difference wrote:
I tend to side with old and proven vs new and scientific. And I think diet and exercise are both necessary. There was a study out that found active smokers were more healthy than inactive non-smokers. That's pretty crazy.
Why is that shocking? A good reason people are sedentary are health issues. So you are comparing smokers that can still move with all the people who have issues that limit mobility.
It was shocking because that was supposedly being taken into account. They were not selecting smokers who could move vs non-smokers that couldn't. They were looking at how fitness affected smokers and non-smokers. Here is an article about one of the studies (there are multiple): http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/20 ... s-smoking/

I don't want to derail the thread, just want to point out that you want to do at least a little bit of exercise, that's all. Hopefully that is not controversial.

Thats a better study than the british ones that got all the press 2 years ago:) But it also doesn't say active smokers are healthier than unactive, nonsmokers:) It says have a low vo2max (doesn't discrimate as to why that happens. Could be lack of exercise, could be obesity) is correlated with health issues. Studies like this are always interesting but it is always important that correlation isn't causation and there often turns out to be factors the studies don't consider.

I tend to think exercise for health is pretty controversial. Using it for wieght loss is more iffy. I know people that have gone both ways (tons of exercise, extreme diets). The exercise people tend to keep it off longer (i.e. they end up enjoying the training). Personally I am a moderate fan.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:32 pm

It's an unfortunate fact that regardless of weight-loss program, most people regain lost weight within a relatively short time. Best of luck, and I'll say that methods that try to drop the weight slowly with a goal towards a permanent lifestyle change have the better chance. Those which rely on deprivation that cause cravings tend to lead to binge break and subsequent loss of confidence.

It ain't easy.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by Trader/Investor » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:56 pm

I am surprised exercise gets such a bad rap. It's easy to change your diet not so easy to get out there 1.5 to 2 hours a day or longer and exercise. Not many/any overweight in the various hiking groups of all ages I participate in. And they pretty much eat whatever they want including sweets. After many of our hikes we go out and eat pizza.

Edit: My bad, on second thought it is unreasonable to think those who have to work for a living and have young families have the time to exercise so many hours daily.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:41 pm

Trader/Investor wrote:I am surprised exercise gets such a bad rap. It's easy to change your diet not so easy to get out there 1.5 to 2 hours a day or longer and exercise. Not many/any overweight in the various hiking groups of all ages I participate in. And they pretty much eat whatever they want including sweets. After many of our hikes we go out and eat pizza.

Edit: My bad, on second thought it is unreasonable to think those who have to work for a living and have young families have the time to exercise so many hours daily.
It's not that, it's that a three mile hike only burns about 400 calories. A person could consume that in three handfuls of chips in five minutes.

reggiesimpson
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by reggiesimpson » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:06 pm

The endocrinologist treating your diabetes has access to a dietician regarding a diabetic diet.
They will probably be covered by your insurance as well. Go see one.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by killjoy2012 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:16 pm

I think the diet/weight loss problem is very similar to investing. First you need a plan, which isn't rocket science to develop, but takes conscious thought to construct & acknowledge the need for. Second, executing to that plan is much easier said than done. Just like there's so much financial noise around us that tempts us to not stay the course, life is busy and many people simply don't have the time, or choose not to have the time, to eat right.

I think it's about as simple as that. I know if I didn't have a wife, kids, 50 hour a week job, 10 hours of commute, bills, cleaning, yard work, etc. etc.... I sure could spend a lot more time shopping daily for healthy food, cooking it, and getting more time in at the gym. But the reality is that some days, more often than not, the choice is either unhealthy food quick at 8-9pm for dinner... or no food. OR eating earlier, but not working out.

As far as diet vs. exercise, I personally think that diet can get you to your weight goal, but you may not have the desired body composition when you get there. Exercise also 'buys' forgiveness for occasional diet slips.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by CaliJim » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:36 pm

What works for me for weight loss and then weight maintenance:

1) Researching and educating myself about the link between carbs, high cholesterol, and type 2 diabetes (Google: Type 2 Diabetes, Syndrome X, Paleo Diet, Robb Wolf, Loren Cordain, Art De Vany, Mark Sisson, Chris Kresser)
2) Eating meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. (ie. eliminating most grains, breads, cakes, cookies, cereals, and pastas)
3) Exercising: (ala Sisson) moving frequently at a slow pace, move less frequently at a faster pace, lift heavy things a couple times a week, work out intensely (ie. sprint) occasionally
4) Occasional intermittent fasting
5) Establishing a very simple meal plan that is easy to follow and sticking to it

6) And the most important thing for me: LOGGING EVERYTHING I EAT, EVERY MEAL, EVERY DAY, FOR 6 MONTHS, to ESTABLISH new eating HABITS using the "My Fitness Pal" application (there are other apps, but this one works well)
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selftalk
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by selftalk » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:03 pm

Go to dr. john mcdougall.com and look for the education heading and click on success stories. Gustav on this lost 70 lbs. It`s the healthiest way to eat for humans. It`s patterned after the research done by Dr. Walter Kempner at Duke University.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by tbradnc » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:10 pm

I lost 50 lbs 16 years ago and have kept it off. One thing I'll add that hasn't been mentioned is that for me losing the weight slowly was easier than going on a crash diet. As I recall it took me the better part of 2001 to lose the 50 lbs but by the time the weight was gone I had developed new eating habits and gotten more active physically.

The other thing is that I don't think it's possible to lose weight without learning how to cope with feeling hunger. I mean, to lose weight means I'm going to be hungry. Mindfulness is a handy tool for dealing with it.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by jsapiandante » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:20 pm

Exercise determines how hard or soft you want to be. Diet determines how big or small you want to be. Of course, with a healthy diet and good dose of exercise, you'll lose weight even faster and at a healthy rate. You wouldn't want to lose weight too fast, either. You're not giving your body enough time to acclimate to your new weight, which is why some people have excess skin when they drop too fast, or stretch marks when they gain weight too fast.

Losing weight is a lifestyle change. I compare it to a boglehead lifestyle of building wealth. It is a slow process. There's no shortcut. Good luck!

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masterofinvesting
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by masterofinvesting » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:26 pm

116 posts... and no one mentioned biking? IMO, riding a bike is an awesome way to lose fat (and hence weight) because of the following reasons:
  • Biking is fun and hence people tend to do it much longer than other activities (like running, or even walking). This is especially true if the city you live in has good bike infrastructure and there is a lot of opportunity to explore new places.
  • Biking at a reasonable/leisurely speed on more-or-less flat terrain would result in a heart rate that is likely in the optimal "fat burning" zone. It is actually quite easy to check your heart rate zone with a heart rate sensor paired with a smartphone and adjust your effort accordingly.
I didn't just pull this out of my hat ... it actually worked for me. Ever since I started biking, I noticed a dramatic drop in my body fat % (and weight) even though I used to run on a treadmill for years before that without much to show for. Biking was quite enjoyable, while running felt like I was putting myself through pain and suffering on purpose.

Of course, a proper diet is quite important, but for the exercise component, recreational biking may be a good option to consider.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by TimeRunner » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:45 pm

masterofinvesting wrote:116 posts... and no one mentioned biking?
Mentioned obliquely. Triathlon = swim, bike, run. Three disciplines to mix it up, work different muscles and balance skills, aerobic capacity, etc. Add something like yoga or Tai Chi and you've got a full plate.

Join a local tri club and make new friends while getting in shape and learning new techniques. It's all good. :beer
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mickens16
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by mickens16 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:53 pm

Please look up flexible dieting. Some of the top nutritional experts use some type of flexible dieting. I read folks like Alan Aragon talk about eating 80-90% healthy everyday but can still enjoy that 10-20% of goodness. This type of dieting is slow so your body adjusts, such as your metabolism.

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randomizer
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by randomizer » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:16 pm

One word: bacon!
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by randomguy » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:40 pm

masterofinvesting wrote:116 posts... and no one mentioned biking? IMO, riding a bike is an awesome way to lose fat (and hence weight) because of the following reasons:
  • Biking is fun and hence people tend to do it much longer than other activities (like running, or even walking). This is especially true if the city you live in has good bike infrastructure and there is a lot of opportunity to explore new places.
  • Biking at a reasonable/leisurely speed on more-or-less flat terrain would result in a heart rate that is likely in the optimal "fat burning" zone. It is actually quite easy to check your heart rate zone with a heart rate sensor paired with a smartphone and adjust your effort accordingly.
Biking is also a good way to get killed.:) It all depends on where you live.

You might want to google the fat burning zone. Being in it isn't really a good thing for weight loss. It just means that you aren't work hard enough to burn any carbs. To burn the same amount of carbs as doing moderate exercise you end up having to spend 2x+ as much time. Going slow is nice if you don't want to sweat (i.e. commuting to work).

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by stoptothink » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:14 am

randomguy wrote:
masterofinvesting wrote:116 posts... and no one mentioned biking? IMO, riding a bike is an awesome way to lose fat (and hence weight) because of the following reasons:
  • Biking is fun and hence people tend to do it much longer than other activities (like running, or even walking). This is especially true if the city you live in has good bike infrastructure and there is a lot of opportunity to explore new places.
  • Biking at a reasonable/leisurely speed on more-or-less flat terrain would result in a heart rate that is likely in the optimal "fat burning" zone. It is actually quite easy to check your heart rate zone with a heart rate sensor paired with a smartphone and adjust your effort accordingly.
Biking is also a good way to get killed.:) It all depends on where you live.

You might want to google the fat burning zone. Being in it isn't really a good thing for weight loss. It just means that you aren't work hard enough to burn any carbs. To burn the same amount of carbs as doing moderate exercise you end up having to spend 2x+ as much time. Going slow is nice if you don't want to sweat (i.e. commuting to work).
This, just another exercise myth - great for selling HR monitors. Biking is great, I did it competitively for several years (both as a triathlete and crits)...many of my fellow competitors were overweight (often very much so). It's like anything else, it can be a great tool, but it is no different than any other exercise modality in regards to this specific topic.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by peterinjapan » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:27 am

Lost about 60 lbs recently. My thoughts

a) it's 80% making food related lifestyle changes, and 20% exercise. In my case I cut my carbs way down, started eating rice from a tiny bowl (I live in Japan where you eat rice with every meal), cut down all sugar, cut down all carb heavy alcohol like beer, and tracked everything with an Apple watch and MyFitnessPal.

b) One great thing to realize is that humans are feedback related beings. Really, the reason children say "mama" that first time is the reaction they get from people around them. So build in positive feedback in everything you do.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by dm200 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:23 am

Earl Lemongrab wrote:It's an unfortunate fact that regardless of weight-loss program, most people regain lost weight within a relatively short time. Best of luck, and I'll say that methods that try to drop the weight slowly with a goal towards a permanent lifestyle change have the better chance. Those which rely on deprivation that cause cravings tend to lead to binge break and subsequent loss of confidence.

It ain't easy.

Earl
IMO and experience, a permananet change in lifestyle (eating properly and regular exercise) has the best chance for long term weight loss. if you look at societies where there is little or no obesity, that can be a good guide for long term success (and at a very low cost). Beans, rice, oatmeal, etc. are very low cost.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by Calhoon » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:11 am

Quite a few years ago I switched over to eating mainly fruits and vegs.

My wife would make this veggie burritos and I'd have those quite a bit.

Would gorge myself on fruits and vegatables, eatting like a pig.

Also, was exercising quite a bit. Doing a lot of hiking/running.

None of this was to loose weight. Just started doing it because I liked hiking and wanted to change my diet.

Lost so much weight so fast the girl at work thought I had cancer. Think it was about thrirty-five pounds or so.

And while it fluctuates a bit, it's been fluctuating in this new lower weight zone.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by alfaspider » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:23 am

masterofinvesting wrote: [*] Biking at a reasonable/leisurely speed on more-or-less flat terrain would result in a heart rate that is likely in the optimal "fat burning" zone. It is actually quite easy to check your heart rate zone with a heart rate sensor paired with a smartphone and adjust your effort accordingly.
Cycling is great, but the "fat burning zone" is a myth. Yes, you will mostly just burn fat when you exercise at low intensity. But high intensity exercise burns off your glycogen stores, which must be replenished with energy from somewhere. Exercising intensely for the same period of time is going to burn more calories.

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masterofinvesting
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by masterofinvesting » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:55 am

alfaspider wrote: Cycling is great, but the "fat burning zone" is a myth. Yes, you will mostly just burn fat when you exercise at low intensity. But high intensity exercise burns off your glycogen stores, which must be replenished with energy from somewhere. Exercising intensely for the same period of time is going to burn more calories.
I agree, but my point is that - for most people who are out-of-shape (I was one of them), committing to a long-duration recreational activity that burns fat is likely much easier than committing to high-intensity exercise that feels that you are putting yourself through pain and suffering on purpose. I once rode a bike for about 6 hours, but I simply cannot imagine jogging more than 30 mins straight or spending more than an hour at the gym.

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steve50
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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by steve50 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:23 am

Bookmarking this post. Lot of good information here and kind of a wake up call to get started on eating well and exercise. This is actually more important then what my retirement balance or AA is.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by AJC408 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:29 am

80% diet 20% exercise. I just did the Whole 30 diet and lost 30 pounds in 45 days. I was 220-225 and now around 190-195. When I was weight lifting at the gym I would never be able to lose that kind of weight just doing high intensity work outs.

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Re: Frustrated Losing Weight!

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:19 am

I removed an off-topic post which suggested how to use a blood sugar meter to monitor your diet, as well as details on the health benefits of exercise vs. insulin resistance. This thread has run its course and is locked (medical advice). While members may have the best intentions at heart, this forum cannot support medical advice.

Noted earlier in a link, I'll post the rationale here directly:
The reasons medical advice is not permitted in this forum:

1. This is an anonymous internet forum. It is not possible to verify anyone's identity (nor do we want to). Credentials also imply accurate advice, which may not always be the case.
2. There can be disagreement among experts, which can be harmful if someone is basing a medical decision on the advice.
3. A member's description may be incomplete.
4. Readers will misinterpret the member's description.
5. Readers will misinterpret the given advice.

Since real harm can be done, we do not permit medical advice and is the reason for the first sentence in: Medical Issues
Questions on medical issues are beyond the scope of the forum. If you are looking for medical information online, I'd like to suggest you start with the Medical Library Association's User's Guide to Finding and Evaluating Health Information on the Web which, in addition to providing guidance on evaluating health information, includes lists of their top recommended sites in the following categories: consumer health, cancer, diabetes and heart disease. They also provide a larger, but less frequently updated, list called Top 100 List: Health Websites You Can Trust.
lucky3 - Search this forum to find threads which will help provide motivation for you to lose weight. For example: Don't understand nutrition and exercise Try not to mention your condition specifically (other than you have one) as the discussion may go down the same path as this one.
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