Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

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livesoft
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Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by livesoft » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:38 am

I wonder if folks are aware of the emacs-like editing keystrokes available when typing in posts. You know:
^-a, ^-e
^-b, ^-f, ^-n, ^-p, ^-v
^-d, ^-k

where ^- means press and hold the control key while pressing the following key. That is, ^-a is the same as control-a or ctrl-a.
and of course
alt-z (or command-z on Macs)
alt-c, alt-v, alt-x

Who else edits/types with these keys / shortcuts? I don't think this is a browser function, but maybe it is?
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by rgarling » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:44 am

not working for me. (PC running Chrome)

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by pshonore » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:46 am

livesoft wrote:I wonder if folks are aware of the emacs-like editing keystrokes available when typing in posts. You know:
^-a, ^-e
^-b, ^-f, ^-n, ^-p, ^-v
^-d, ^-k

where ^- means press and hold the control key while pressing the following key. That is, ^-a is the same as control-a or ctrl-a.
and of course
alt-z (or command-z on Macs)
alt-c, alt-v, alt-x

Who else edits/types with these keys / shortcuts? I don't think this is a browser function, but maybe it is?
I use CTRL Z a lot in Excel to undo a series of keystrokes. (But I forgot the key sequence for re-do)

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by stlutz » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:49 am

They are replacements for browser menu commands. Firefox still tells you what the equivalent keystroke command is when you select drop downs. For example, Edit->Select All = Ctrl A.

I still use them a lot, but mostly in Office apps.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by cfs » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:50 am

I do.

Yes, I use my standard DOS commands and shortcuts on a daily basis. Plus, I prepare my posts using the good ole' notepad then Ctrl + A, Ctrl + C, followed by Ctrl + V here. Prior to the Windows days you had to memorize and use all those crazy combos to get things done.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by whaleknives » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:27 am

It pre-dates not only programs like Visicalc and Wordstar, but operating systems like DOS and Apple. From Wikipedia Control key:
  • On teletypewriters and early keyboards, holding down the Control key while pressing another key zeroed the leftmost two bits of the seven bits in the generated ASCII character. This allowed the operator to produce the first 32 characters in the ASCII table. These are non-printing characters that signal the computer to control where the next character will be placed on the display device, eject a printed page or erase the screen, ring the terminal bell, or some other operation. Aptly, these characters are also called control characters. . .
    . . . When the original purpose of the ASCII control characters became either obsolete or seldom used, later software appropriated the Control key combinations for other purposes.
I especially liked the "ring the terminal bell", although I can't remember using it on my IBM TSO (Time-Sharing Option) typewriter terminal. It was a big advance over punched Hollerith cards.

I use <ctrl-c>, <ctrl-x> and <ctrl-v> for cutting and pasting, but the others only if the software doesn't provide an accessible menu.
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by docbrown » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:56 am

Livesoft isn't referring to Command-A (Mac) or Control-A (Windows) to Select All, and similar commands. Emacs movement commands are available, as far as I know, only on the Mac. On a Mac, you can press Control-A (not Command) to move to the beginning of a line, or Control-E to move to the end, as well as the others.

I use them all the time.
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:59 am

I write my posts in vim and then copy them into the browser. :P

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by prudent » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:00 am

Topic moved to Forum Issues and Administration.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by bertilak » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:49 am

VI fans have a saying: "Emacs is a nice operating system with a lousy editor!"
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by adamthesmythe » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:25 pm

Many years ago I made a lifestyle choice not to learn emacs. I am very glad I have done so and I believe it has contributed immensely to my well-being. Indeed, the reduced frustration has enhanced my earning capacity and I believe increased the value of my portfolio.

So the answer is: no.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by JoMoney » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:36 pm

livesoft wrote:I wonder if folks are aware of the emacs-like editing keystrokes available when typing in posts. You know:
^-a, ^-e
^-b, ^-f, ^-n, ^-p, ^-v
^-d, ^-k

where ^- means press and hold the control key while pressing the following key. That is, ^-a is the same as control-a or ctrl-a.
and of course
alt-z (or command-z on Macs)
alt-c, alt-v, alt-x

Who else edits/types with these keys / shortcuts? I don't think this is a browser function, but maybe it is?
I use a handful of keyboard shortcuts without quite thinking about it, practically muscle memory at this point. In particular the ones I use most
^z (undo)
^c / ^v (copy / paste)
^a (select all), I also use "shift+home", "shift+end", or "CTRL+SHIFT+ left arrow/right arrow" to select just words or entire rows... usually followed by retyping something
^n (open a new browser window)

I think that's the extent of my 'natural' keyboard shortcuts i'm accustomed to using.
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by PNW1 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:03 pm

zaboomafoozarg wrote:I write my posts in vim and then copy them into the browser. :P
I write my posts in emacs and then paste them into the browser. In fact, I use emacs so much that I've created a desktop-level keyboard shortcut (ctrl-alt-q) to pop up an emacs window.

It's certainly an acquired taste. :)

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by mindboggling » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:23 pm

I'm not an IT guy and came to Linux late (after the widespread acceptance of the GUI). I've used Linux at home exclusively for about ten years. I'm not a big CLI user. I never got the hang of emacs. I do, however, get tired sometimes of pointing and clicking. I use keyboard shortcuts to open my frequently-used apps on the desktop. If I need a simple text editor I use gedit. If I'm in the CLI and need an editor I've used nano. For me it was easier to re-learn than vi.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by Silverado » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:48 pm

adamthesmythe wrote:Many years ago I made a lifestyle choice not to learn emacs. I am very glad I have done so and I believe it has contributed immensely to my well-being. Indeed, the reduced frustration has enhanced my earning capacity and I believe increased the value of my portfolio.

So the answer is: no.
I did too, but it was in order to become good at vi. Opinions vary.

Will have to try some of the emacs shortcuts.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by otinkyad » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:17 pm

It's a core Mac text editing feature. As a 30-year user of Emacs, it took me a few years of using them to notice that they worked. ;-)

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by Lobster » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:25 pm

livesoft I'm glad to hear you use shortcuts for the one true editor :wink:

I coded exclusively in emacs through university. I still edit files on remote servers in emacs, though I've been forced to learn enough vi commands given its available more often.

The emacs shortcuts don't appear to work on Windows with Chrome as I edit this post, unless there is a settings option to enable them somewhere.
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by skjoldur » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:42 pm

Wow, I never expected to have the opportunity to participate in an emacs vs. vi flame war on the bogleheads forum. How awesome is that?

Vi all the way!

I doubt I would take the time to learn Vi now, but once you know it, it sticks to your fingers like chewing gum on hot asphalt.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by JW-Retired » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:42 pm

cntrl-c = copy highlighted text, contrl-v = paste it back somewhere else, contrl-f opens a find widow. These all work here as I type.
I constantly use these but their are many more I've forgotten. Used them on all sorts of operating systems for as long as I can remember.
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Yes, contrl-z for undo is another staple.
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by livesoft » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:46 pm

To really be a flame war someone has to be using vi keystrokes within their browser to edit posts on bogleheads.org.

I didn't expect anybody to even have a clue what emacs was.
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by AnonJohn » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:51 pm

I'm with skoljur. This is unexpectedly fun. But, sadly, I must take issue with Lobster. Everyone knows that neither emacs nor vi is the one true editor. To paraphrase the immortal Patrick J. LoPresti: When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi and Emacs are just too slow. I use ED. ED is the standard text editor. ED is the greatest WYGIWYG editor of them all. ED is for those of us who can remember what we're working on ... :mrgreen:

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by swellkarl » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:06 pm

skjoldur wrote:Wow, I never expected to have the opportunity to participate in an emacs vs. vi flame war on the bogleheads forum. How awesome is that?

Vi all the way!

I doubt I would take the time to learn Vi now, but once you know it, it sticks to your fingers like chewing gum on hot asphalt.
I have used vi daily for over 24 years since I learned it during my first semester in college. I have tried to use GNU emacs a few times but have kept going back to vi.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:50 pm

<Esc> M Personal Consumer Issues<Esc>I forum (How you spend your money and your time). No longer talking about forum posts. <Esc>:

:w <Esc> I

vi is the universal Linux / Unix editor. Learn once, use everywhere. I've been using vi for many years, since I was Lady-in-waiting-Geek.

Please avoid a vi vs. emacs flame war.<esc>:

:wq
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by triceratop » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:05 pm

livesoft wrote:To really be a flame war someone has to be using vi keystrokes within their browser to edit posts on bogleheads.org.

I didn't expect anybody to even have a clue what emacs was.
emacs is an excellent solution to a problem nobody actually had.

Vim, on the other hand, serves its purpose as an editor well.

Oh, and yes I use browser shortcuts extensively. Actually, I use Pentadactyl (but that's inactive so I'll have to shop for similar vim-like browsers) so that I never need a mouse while using the browser; everything is done with keyboard shortcuts. If you use Chrome, I recommend cVim. For mail, mutt works well so that no mouse is needed whatsoever on most days!

So yes, I am using vi keystrokes to do exactly that!
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by telemark » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:35 pm

I'll confess a certain fondness for Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping, but ed is the standard editor.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by triceratop » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:59 pm

telemark wrote:I'll confess a certain fondness for Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping, but ed is the standard editor.
I had not seen that one before. Thanks.

For others who don't get the joke, see Paging.
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by dratkinson » Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:42 pm

Not any more. Dimly recall vi and ed. Never used emacs.

Now only use ctrl-a/ctrl-c/ctrl-v to temporarily save long forum post to Word before posting.
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by linenfort » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:56 pm

livesoft wrote:I wonder if folks are aware of the emacs-like editing keystrokes available when typing in posts. You know:
^-a, ^-e
^-b, ^-f, ^-n, ^-p, ^-v
^-d, ^-k

...
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I pretty much try Ctrl-a and Ctrl-e everywhere. Once I noticed that it worked in Google Docs, I started trying it everywhere I was able to type.

However, I didn't realize that other emacs commands worked here at bogleheads. Neat!

I like both emacs and vi.
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by Ged » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:05 pm

zaboomafoozarg wrote:I write my posts in vim and then copy them into the browser. :P
vim is a newfangled gizmo for millennials. Retirees use vi.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by KarenC » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:15 pm

triceratop wrote:
telemark wrote:I'll confess a certain fondness for Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping, but ed is the standard editor.
I had not seen that one before. Thanks.

For others who don't get the joke, see Paging.
My favorite is Escape Meta Alt Control Shift.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by CyberBob » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:38 pm

I actually use Emacs all of the time, since my entire operating system is built around it.
My window manager is Ratpoison, which is all keyboard driven Emacs keystrokes.
My web browser is Conkeror, which is all keyboard driven Emacs keystrokes (although, I added Vi/m J and K up/down commands to the rc file for ease of use in reading web pages. Don't tell the Emacs mafia :) ).
Oh yeah, and since I don't have a graphical file browser, but rather use GNU core utils, I use Emacs stuff in a terminal quite a bit too.
And then there's my text editor...

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by Dottie57 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:47 pm

bertilak wrote:VI fans have a saying: "Emacs is a nice operating system with a lousy editor!"

+1

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:49 pm

Ged wrote:
zaboomafoozarg wrote:I write my posts in vim and then copy them into the browser. :P
vim is a newfangled gizmo for millennials. Retirees use vi.
Full disclosure, I use gvim.

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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by BolderBoy » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:09 pm

I'll wade in.

I use ee. Guess what OS that is for.
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Re: Editing shortcut emacs-like keys. Do u use them?

Post by pshonore » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:20 pm

Just remembered using the old DOS editor "Edlin" in the pre-windows days. I'm sure that was available in early Windows as well but not in Windows 10

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