Stinky Washing Machine [SOLVED]

BolderBoy · Post by **BolderBoy** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:25 pm

Thanks to the very helpful suggestions and encouragement from you folks, my washer is no longer stinky.

With the help of youtube I found out how to remove the two agitators (upper and lower). Then a quick trip to the parts store to buy some "dog agits" (the original ones had crumbled), the megga chlorine wash the other day, some elbow grease and Softscrub to get rid of old liquid fabric softener ring/cruddy buildup around the top of the basket, a thorough scrubbing of the agitators with a brush and lastly, running a full wash cycle with Borax.

Now my washer both smells pretty and works properly again. I can hardly wait to use it.

Thanks to all!

Carter3 · Post by **Carter3** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:55 pm

Awww man I clicked this to tell you about the hot water and vinegar trick. Hopefully others will come in soon

Rodc · Post by **Rodc** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:56 pm

My experience with new HE washers is that they are a great big pain the behind. They may save on water but I would happily go back to an older washer that worked fine.

You may have an in-line trap of some sort that has something caught in it that is rotting. Not sure how common they are.

My first HE washer had something like that. Only you had to tip the washer over to get to it. Found a pen or something in it that then blocked some other stuff which then collected a bunch of lint and it would not drain well. I think a small sock or handkerchief, wad of paper left in a pocket, etc could do the same thing. Happened a couple of times, but I no longer remember just what got caught. To make life easier I took an angle grinder and made myself a nice hole so I could reach in and empty the trap without tipping the thing over. Looked real nice

but it worked well.

It was a front loader with lots of trouble with the door seal. Junked it after about 4 years as it was just too big of a PITA.

Got a top loader that goes off balance if you look at it funny.

Even if you do not have a trap per se it might be gunk in the houses that could be cleaned out. Given my experience I would pay to get it cleaned out before buy a new modern piece of junk.

Best of luck.

Mudpuppy · Post by **Mudpuppy** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:18 pm

What kind of washer: front load or top load?

If it's a front load, check the rubber gasket that seals the door. That can accumulate quite a bit in 20 years.

LeisureLee · Post by **LeisureLee** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:25 pm

There are two things that worked for me.

First, look in the drain catch for anything trapped - my washer has a small door on the bottom left with a plug you pull out to get to it. YouTube likely has a video to show you how to do it for your washer.

Second, and most importantly, I leave the washer door open when I'm not using it. My washer always used to smell musty, and now that it's able to dry out all week between laundry days, there's no longer a problem.

t3chiman · Post by **t3chiman** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:38 am

BolderBoy wrote:... Machine is still stinky. Disassembling the machine looks like a daunting task.

The machine and matching dryer are 20+ years old...

Nothing wrong with 1990's technology, motors and solenoid valves have not changed much. Difference is in the controller logic and display--if that's working fine, you can have a go at repair.

Washing machines come apart fairly quickly. My Maytag had the stink problem. Internet to the rescue, with lots of horror stories. It was only 8 screws to expose the innards. Mold was the issue. It had propagated to the area around the add-detergent inlet, and, of course, the front door gasket.

Other responders have given good advice about what to check. Extending their comments, I can add that, in my experience, you can't clean the door gasket once it is infected with mold; gotta replace it. It is an awkward job, involving removing friction clips and a tension spring. Figure a couple of hours, or more since it's your first time. There is a drain on the low point of the gasket which gets plugged over time, so the new one will give instant improvement. But you are not done: the downstream tubing has to be checked, and probably replaced.

Washing machine bearings are pretty rugged, but they do wear out, especially if you have overfilled the detergent hopper, or used the wrong detergent that oversudsed and penetrated the bearing seal. If you have this problem--and it's obvious from the squealing that you do--you are in for a bearing swap. Bearings are standard, and cheap, about 12 dollars. Labor to remove and replace, though, involves a few hours of hammering to remove the old and press in the new. Specialized tools exist for this chore, saving you time, and costing dollars.

Before putting the machine back in service, you may want to place a power surge suppressor on the electrical outlet. I use an ISOBLOK-2 on mine; saved the day once.

To avoid a recurrence of mold, keep the door open, dump out the contents of the softener/bleach dispenser, and wipe the gasket dry. Keep that machine dry.
HTH

smackboy1 · Post by **smackboy1** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:53 am

BolderBoy wrote:The machine and matching dryer are 20+ years old.

Is the washer a front load? There is probably 20+ years of mildew/mold built up somewhere inside, maybe in the drain/trap. That growth could probably survive even an exorcism.

When our front load washer was new it smelled. It's inherent in the design of many front loaders to retain moisture. We got this Washer Fan and the odors disappeared. It looks like an infomercial product, but it actually worked really well. If it doesn't solve your problem, you can use the fan on your next front load washer.

https://washerfan.com/

blaugranamd · Post by **blaugranamd** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:54 am

We had a similar problem with our newish front loader that my wife kept leaving wet clothes in for days. Bleach multiple times didn't work. Bought some Affresh washer treatment tablets that worked wonders. Highly recommended.

inbox788 · Post by **inbox788** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:02 am

I would use more bleach, especially if the smell is moldy in nature. Since the machine is on its way out, I don't see the harm. Double the amount of bleach or more and double time or over night. Agitate every so often. This covers the areas reached by the tub filling. If there are areas not reached, try spraying directly and letting it sit a while. If you see mold, clean off directly or soak a paper towel with bleach to achieve longer contact times.

I don't know how helpful vinegar is besides decalcifying, but a final rinse with it might help a bit.

mrc · Post by **mrc** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:25 am

inbox788 wrote:I would use more bleach, especially if the smell is moldy in nature. Since the machine is on its way out, I don't see the harm. Double the amount of bleach or more and double time or over night. Agitate every so often. This covers the areas reached by the tub filling. If there are areas not reached, try spraying directly and letting it sit a while. If you see mold, clean off directly or soak a paper towel with bleach to achieve longer contact times.

I don't know how helpful vinegar is besides decalcifying, but a final rinse with it might help a bit.

That is my thought too. Vinegar helps with calcific hard water deposits. But won't do much for the mold. You need bleach for that. There is standing water someplace in the system. A slow leak from a seal somewhere would let that happen. Then, no amount of flushing the system with bleach will help. Can you explore the machine? Find the water, kill the mold, then no smell.

coachz · Post by **coachz** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:33 am

If you have to get a new washer, check out the speedqueen. We are loving ours and did a lot of research to come to them.

furnace · Post by **furnace** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:46 am

t3chiman wrote:
BolderBoy wrote:... Machine is still stinky. Disassembling the machine looks like a daunting task.

The machine and matching dryer are 20+ years old...
Nothing wrong with 1990's technology, motors and solenoid valves have not changed much. Difference is in the controller logic and display--if that's working fine, you can have a go at repair.

Washing machines come apart fairly quickly. My Maytag had the stink problem. Internet to the rescue, with lots of horror stories. It was only 8 screws to expose the innards. Mold was the issue. It had propagated to the area around the add-detergent inlet, and, of course, the front door gasket.

Other responders have given good advice about what to check. Extending their comments, I can add that, in my experience, you can't clean the door gasket once it is infected with mold; gotta replace it. It is an awkward job, involving removing friction clips and a tension spring. Figure a couple of hours, or more since it's your first time. There is a drain on the low point of the gasket which gets plugged over time, so the new one will give instant improvement. But you are not done: the downstream tubing has to be checked, and probably replaced.

Washing machine bearings are pretty rugged, but they do wear out, especially if you have overfilled the detergent hopper, or used the wrong detergent that oversudsed and penetrated the bearing seal. If you have this problem--and it's obvious from the squealing that you do--you are in for a bearing swap. Bearings are standard, and cheap, about 12 dollars. Labor to remove and replace, though, involves a few hours of hammering to remove the old and press in the new. Specialized tools exist for this chore, saving you time, and costing dollars.

Before putting the machine back in service, you may want to place a power surge suppressor on the electrical outlet. I use an ISOBLOK-2 on mine; saved the day once.

To avoid a recurrence of mold, keep the door open, dump out the contents of the softener/bleach dispenser, and wipe the gasket dry. Keep that machine dry.
HTH

Yes - just spend a couple hours and take the machine apart and clean it well. Then tell your wife to keep the door open after each use, or you're going to take over the laundry privilege from her!

rainyday1 · Post by **rainyday1** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:49 am

The saleswoman at Home Depot said her chemist brother suggested running a cycle with 1/2 cup borax. She said it worked like a charm.

I am planning to try it, but I keep forgetting to buy borax. Although after 20 years, I would probably buy a new washer...

InvestorNewb · Post by **InvestorNewb** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:54 am

BolderBoy wrote:The machine and matching dryer are 20+ years old.

I think it's time to buy a new machine and dryer.

shorty313 · Post by **shorty313** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:00 am

We had an issue with a cigarette-like odor in ours last year. I tried everything you did and nothing worked. Know what did? Switching from liquid soap to powder soap. It took several loads to work but the smell hasn't come back. I thought to try that because we had a similar issue with our dishwasher years earlier (inside turning red). We are on well water, so that might play into it. It's a cheap thing to try at least if you aren't using powder already!

Epsilon Delta · Post by **Epsilon Delta** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:21 am

t3chiman wrote:Washing machines come apart fairly quickly.

In my experience if a washing machine is in a nice wide space (such as a basement) where you have 4 foot of clear space on every side it comes apart easily. If it's in a tightly packed laundry room with only a narrow aisle in front it's quite a bit more difficult.

In a tight space you have to find and remove some of the screws blind, this may require a clairvoyant contortionist. Further the cover for the washing machine is the same size as the washing machine, so it takes up twice as much room when open. It most laundry rooms you find yourself occupying the space you want to move the cover into. Good spatial skills, decent grip strength and a fair degree of flexibility are required, as is a command of language which Miss Manners would not approve of.

If I wanted to disassemble my washing machine the first step would be to get a couple of strong lads over for 10 minutes and move it intact to my garage, where I have the space to work comfortable. This is of course depended on your houses layout.

lthenderson · Post by **lthenderson** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:46 am

I used to design HE washers for a living. The two biggest sins I see for making a stink were that owners were not using HE machine detergents in their machine and using fabric softeners. Regular detergents and fabric softeners leave behind soap scum over time which also traps organics that when they decay, smell. As one would expect, it is also not easy to remove all the soap scum but there are many suggestions above.

Another factor is that due to the front load nature and people not wanting leaks, front load washers are sealed up extremely tight compared to their upright cousins. This means moisture gets trapped inside between laundry days which also facilitates rot and more odors. The best way to cure this is to simply leave the door open when you aren't doing laundry to let the moisture escape.

If you follow those three things, your machine won't stink.

gd · Post by gd » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:16 pm

After a good bleach soak, always leave the lid open when not in use even with an old top loading unit. There is likely some water pooling in the bottom (mine has 1/4"), and closed lid just leaves the tub constantly dank. I also use borax and 2nd rinse every load, which helps clothes and probably leaves that residual water cleaner.

itstoomuch · Post by **itstoomuch** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:56 pm

lthenderson wrote:I used to design HE washers for a living. The two biggest sins I see for making a stink were that owners were not using HE machine detergents in their machine and using fabric softeners. Regular detergents and fabric softeners leave behind soap scum over time which also traps organics that when they decay, smell. As one would expect, it is also not easy to remove all the soap scum but there are many suggestions above.

Another factor is that due to the front load nature and people not wanting leaks, front load washers are sealed up extremely tight compared to their upright cousins. This means moisture gets trapped inside between laundry days which also facilitates rot and more odors. The best way to cure this is to simply leave the door open when you aren't doing laundry to let the moisture escape.

If you follow those three things, your machine won't stink.

+++1
Contrary to putting down the toilet cover, You want to keep the washer door open.

or never seal your boy's gym clothes in a ziplock.

Rodc · Post by **Rodc** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:04 pm

itstoomuch wrote:
lthenderson wrote:I used to design HE washers for a living. The two biggest sins I see for making a stink were that owners were not using HE machine detergents in their machine and using fabric softeners. Regular detergents and fabric softeners leave behind soap scum over time which also traps organics that when they decay, smell. As one would expect, it is also not easy to remove all the soap scum but there are many suggestions above.

Another factor is that due to the front load nature and people not wanting leaks, front load washers are sealed up extremely tight compared to their upright cousins. This means moisture gets trapped inside between laundry days which also facilitates rot and more odors. The best way to cure this is to simply leave the door open when you aren't doing laundry to let the moisture escape.

If you follow those three things, your machine won't stink.
+++1
Contrary to putting down the toilet cover, You want to keep the washer door open.
or never seal your boy's gym clothes in a ziplock.

I think you mean, if you seal your kid's gym clothes in a ziplock, NEVER unseal them....

BolderBoy · Post by **BolderBoy** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:34 am

So I tried two "Affresh" tablets, hot water, etc. The odor was less, but still there.

Today I'll be trying bleach again - only this time a LOT of bleach and I'll let it sit for 24 hours (my microbiology prof in college said that the world is conducting a giant chlorine experiment - guess I'll contribute to it; apologies in advance to the people downstream). A ladyfriend suggested doing a Lysol soak as well.

I'm determined to fix this without having to disassemble the washer if I can...

Five Scoop · Post by **Five Scoop** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:42 am

What is the name of the manufacturer and what is the model of your machine? (To the OP)

littlebird · Post by **littlebird** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:12 am

InvestorNewb wrote:
BolderBoy wrote:The machine and matching dryer are 20+ years old.
I think it's time to buy a new machine and dryer.

Why do both have to be replaced when one goes? The new dryers are not better, they're essentially the same as they were 20 years ago (as far as I can see) . Manufacturers like to encourage us to see them as "sets", but to me, as long as they're both white, they're neat enough for the places most machines are kept. I have a traditional top-loading washer; maybe the newer HD washers need their own "special" dryer; I don't know much about them. And what I do know I don't like (many years ago as a newly-wed, I had the "pleasure' of doing laundry in front-loaders at Laundromats.

Watty · Post by **Watty** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:20 am

Is it possible that a mouse died inside it or there is something like a sock or lint that got under it that is wet because of a small leak?

You might be able to tilt the machine so that someone could look and smell under it. Don't put you head or hand under it

.

BolderBoy · Post by **BolderBoy** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:28 am

Five Scoop wrote:What is the name of the manufacturer and what is the model of your machine? (To the OP)

Kenmore, Model: 110.26912690

TT · Post by TT » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:42 am

rainyday1 wrote:The saleswoman at Home Depot said her chemist brother suggested running a cycle with 1/2 cup borax. She said it worked like a charm.

I am planning to try it, but I keep forgetting to buy borax. Although after 20 years, I would probably buy a new washer...

I would strongly recommend a front loader. After having one for 16 years when I needed a new washer I had the bright idea to try an LG top loader.

Wrong! Worse washer I ever had. Wrinkles and twists the clothes , leaves soap residue and generally does not clean clothes as well.
Have to separate heavy clothes from light ones and wash them separately to get decent results. Had 2 new control panels installed under warranty -same results.

coachz · Post by **coachz** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:51 am

Speed Queen top loader is excellent.

Feb29 · Post by **Feb29** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:00 pm

Get rid of the old smelly washer and get a Speed Queen top loader.

Intens · Post by **Intens** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:15 pm

If you do go the route of a new washer, do not get a HE one.

Our 4-year old GE washer broke, so in the rush, we bought a high customer-rated Whirlpool at Lowe's.
This washer is a top-loading HE one.

I was used to starting a cycle and having the water fill the bub even when the lid is open.
Not anymore. Apparently, this is a new "feature" of many new washers.
Although I later found out that one of the GE washers would still let you fill the tub to pre-soak clothes.
Too late for us.

We are using the Bulky Items/Sheets setting so we get at least a "full" tub of water.

Mudpuppy · Post by **Mudpuppy** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:23 pm

BolderBoy wrote:
Five Scoop wrote:What is the name of the manufacturer and what is the model of your machine? (To the OP)
Kenmore, Model: 110.26912690

Okay, so it's a top loader with agitator. You can find diagrams of it using the search phrase "Kenmore 90 series washer diagram".

I'd second the recommendation to tip it over and check the underside. For example, if you have not changed the drain hose in 20 years, it could have sprung a leak, particularly if it lost a retaining clip and is partially resting on the floor.

I know a lot of the washer repair videos show how to disassemble the front from the back, but tipping it over works just as well to access items on the outside of the basin and it's a whole lot easier, other than the weight of moving it. But I'm a petite woman and I managed to tip over and upright my top-loading Whirlpool when I needed to replace my drain hose a few months ago, so the weight isn't too bad.

Just place a few shop towel or large rags down on the floor to protect the finish on the front, turn off the water, disconnect the supply hoses, remove the drain hose from the drain, and tip it fully over so the front is resting on the floor. Take the opportunity to replace the supply hoses too if you haven't ever replaced those. 20 years is pushing it for the lifespan of a supply hose (should really replace those every 10 years to minimize the possibility of springing a leak).

Have a small bucket/basin handy if you do want to replace the drain hose. The pump retains water between loads so it doesn't start in a dry state. That could also be a source of mold, but it will also retain the bleach water you're running through it, which helps keep mold under control.

retiredjg · Post by **retiredjg** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:34 pm

BolderBoy wrote:
Five Scoop wrote:What is the name of the manufacturer and what is the model of your machine? (To the OP)
Kenmore, Model: 110.26912690

I have an old Kenmore Model 110.26722693. I bet our washers are similar, maybe a few years different. Mine is a top-loader.

I had mine in storage for a year. I had drained it, but it smelled like mildew for several months after it came out of storage. Tried all the things you mentioned with only partial improvement.

Then it occurred to me that I never use (and therefore had never cleaned) the "liquid chlorine bleach" dispenser - the little triangular thing near your right hip (or ribs) that you pour liquid bleach into.

Seems like the smell mostly went away after I sent both a bunch of water and some bleach down that thing.

And yes, always leave the top up when not in use.

Pete12 · Post by **Pete12** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:28 pm

Put in two cups of baking soda and run a small cycle. We do that on our HE machine whenever it starts to get musty and works like a charm. I buy the large bags of baking soda from Costco

spammagnet · Post by **spammagnet** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:45 pm

furnace wrote:Yes - just spend a couple hours and take the machine apart and clean it well. Then tell your wife to keep the door open after each use, or you're going to take over the laundry privilege from her!

That might result in the door being kept shut.

spammagnet · Post by **spammagnet** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:47 pm

Epsilon Delta wrote:In a tight space you have to find and remove some of the screws blind, this may require a clairvoyant contortionist.

Agree with the aggravation. There are also lots of hidden sharp edges but, in my experience, it's worth a try.

BolderBoy · Post by **BolderBoy** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:55 pm

Pete12 wrote:Put in two cups of baking soda and run a small cycle. We do that on our HE machine whenever it starts to get musty and works like a charm. I buy the large bags of baking soda from Costco

Why would baking soda do anything?

BolderBoy · Post by **BolderBoy** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:00 pm

Mudpuppy wrote:
BolderBoy wrote:
Five Scoop wrote:What is the name of the manufacturer and what is the model of your machine? (To the OP)
Kenmore, Model: 110.26912690
Okay, so it's a top loader with agitator. You can find diagrams of it using the search phrase "Kenmore 90 series washer diagram".

I'd second the recommendation to tip it over and check the underside. For example, if you have not changed the drain hose in 20 years, it could have sprung a leak, particularly if it lost a retaining clip and is partially resting on the floor.

I know a lot of the washer repair videos show how to disassemble the front from the back, but tipping it over works just as well to access items on the outside of the basin and it's a whole lot easier, other than the weight of moving it. But I'm a petite woman and I managed to tip over and upright my top-loading Whirlpool when I needed to replace my drain hose a few months ago, so the weight isn't too bad.

Just place a few shop towel or large rags down on the floor to protect the finish on the front, turn off the water, disconnect the supply hoses, remove the drain hose from the drain, and tip it fully over so the front is resting on the floor. Take the opportunity to replace the supply hoses too if you haven't ever replaced those. 20 years is pushing it for the lifespan of a supply hose (should really replace those every 10 years to minimize the possibility of springing a leak).

Have a small bucket/basin handy if you do want to replace the drain hose. The pump retains water between loads so it doesn't start in a dry state. That could also be a source of mold, but it will also retain the bleach water you're running through it, which helps keep mold under control.

You've given me the strength to go this route if need be. (shamed me into it?

)

Today I dumped 2 *gallons* of bleach into the machine and let it sit all day. If that fails, I'll take the machine apart on Friday, I guess.

Pete12 · Post by **Pete12** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:39 am

BolderBoy wrote:
Pete12 wrote:Put in two cups of baking soda and run a small cycle. We do that on our HE machine whenever it starts to get musty and works like a charm. I buy the large bags of baking soda from Costco
Why would baking soda do anything?

Baking soda absorbs odors. Your machine is already clean from all the bleach. Now you need to eliminate the odor.

BolderBoy · Post by **BolderBoy** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:24 pm

Pete12 wrote:
BolderBoy wrote:
Pete12 wrote:Put in two cups of baking soda and run a small cycle. We do that on our HE machine whenever it starts to get musty and works like a charm. I buy the large bags of baking soda from Costco
Why would baking soda do anything?
Baking soda absorbs odors. Your machine is already clean from all the bleach. Now you need to eliminate the odor.

True, the bleach odor now is overwhelming!

Housekeeper was here today, with her eagle eyes. She showed me how to remove the agitator and also showed me a ring around the top of the basin (above the maximum water line) that was apparently made by fabric softener being sprayed out of the centrifugal dispenser. I used fabric softener for a couple of years about 5 years ago, never since. But before the fabric softener I had never had trouble with a stinky washing machine.

I suspect that I'm on the direct road to solving this and I thank everyone for their suggestions. Tomorrow I'll take care of the remaining (hopefully) two issues above.

lthenderson · Post by **lthenderson** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:22 pm

Fabric softener residue can certainly create a stink. I sure hope that solves your problem. Although I still would avoid it, it is better to put it directly in the bath water for upright washers than to use dispensers for the reasons you are finding out.

retiredjg · Post by **retiredjg** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:17 pm

Ok, the title says "solved" but we don't have a report explaining the elements of the solution. Moderator, please poke this poster with a cattle prod.

A little voice on my shoulder has revealed that the solutions are in the original post.

Glad to hear it worked out.

daveatca · Post by **daveatca** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:10 pm

[Washing machine] fabric softener contains ANIMAL FATS.
If you MUST use fabric softener, do it via the dryer.

retiredjg · Post by **retiredjg** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:39 pm

I haven't used fabric softener in probably 40 years. In that time, I've moved to many areas of the country and had many different types of water and never needed it that I could tell.

I wonder if people use it because they were taught to (by mom and/or the TV) and they think that is standard laundry procedure and they have never questioned if they actually need it or not.

Fabric softener makes towels un-absorbant and residue-ee. Who wants that?

If fabric softener is part of this stink problem, try not using it for awhile. You may find it is not needed.

Mudpuppy · Post by **Mudpuppy** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:39 am

retiredjg wrote:Ok, the title says "solved" but we don't have a report explaining the elements of the solution. Moderator, please poke this poster with a cattle prod.
A little voice on my shoulder has revealed that the solutions are in the original post. Glad to hear it worked out.

That threw me off a little too.... I always click the icon to view the oldest unread post in the thread instead of starting at the top. So thanks for pointing up to the edited first post.

BolderBoy · Post by **BolderBoy** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:01 pm

Mudpuppy wrote:
retiredjg wrote:Ok, the title says "solved" but we don't have a report explaining the elements of the solution. Moderator, please poke this poster with a cattle prod.
A little voice on my shoulder has revealed that the solutions are in the original post. Glad to hear it worked out.
That threw me off a little too.... I always click the icon to view the oldest unread post in the thread instead of starting at the top. So thanks for pointing up to the edited first post.

My fault and I apologize. I wanted to change the subject line to add the [SOLVED], did so, then forgot where I was and deleted the original post replacing it with the solution(s).

Makes the thread read pretty weirdly, I know - the ending is at the beginning and the beginning is gone.

retiredjg · Post by **retiredjg** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:19 pm

Sorry to giggle, but that's kind if humorous.

Glad your problem is solved.