Tipping Etiquette Question.

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meowcat
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Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by meowcat »

My Wife and I go to a bar located inside a nice restaurant. I order a cocktail and my DW asks the bartender about wines. She's hesitant about house wines so the bartender suggested a certain wine that she has never had. She didn't like the wine. The bartender replaced it with a glass that she's familiar with and everything was good. He did not charge us for the defunct wine.
Question: When the tab arrives, do you tip on both glasses of wine, or just the one, even though one glass was no charge. As a note, the bartender was great.
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Intens
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Intens »

Tip either both glasses if the bartender was as great as you said.
Or 1.5 glasses.
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by michaeljc70 »

I would tip on the bill. I am not sure why you would tip on something you didn't like or drink that was recommended by the bartender. Since he was nice about it (though I think that is pretty standard practice), I would just give a good tip that I would give anyone who gave very good service (which would be 20-25% from me).
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mhc
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by mhc »

I would tip on the bill at the rate that I normally give someone that provides excellant service.
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by midareff »

mhc wrote:I would tip on the bill at the rate that I normally give someone that provides excellant service.

+1
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by saltycaper »

I'd tip a little extra than the standard good service tip if you will frequent this bar. If the bartender notes your generous tip when a drink goes on the "spill tab", you may in the future find yourself getting drinks that you mysteriously are not billed for.
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Levett »

I'm 100% with Salty because that's how it has worked in my experience.

There's nothing like walking into your neighborhood establishment and the bartender sees you and your wife/partner/buddy/girlfriend and your drinks are waiting for you before you sit down.

Lovely. :happy

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Rodc
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Rodc »

saltycaper wrote:I'd tip a little extra than the standard good service tip if you will frequent this bar. If the bartender notes your generous tip when a drink goes on the "spill tab", you may in the future find yourself getting drinks that you mysteriously are not billed for.
+1

You do not need to do this, but even if it got you nothing in the future, the person did you something of a favor. Yeah, minor favor, not like they went out and washed your car or something. :)

But really what are we talking about. One dollar extra? Maybe two?
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by RyeWhiskey »

meowcat wrote:My Wife and I go to a bar located inside a nice restaurant. I order a cocktail and my DW asks the bartender about wines. She's hesitant about house wines so the bartender suggested a certain wine that she has never had. She didn't like the wine. The bartender replaced it with a glass that she's familiar with and everything was good. He did not charge us for the defunct wine.
Question: When the tab arrives, do you tip on both glasses of wine, or just the one, even though one glass was no charge. As a note, the bartender was great.
I've worked in the fine-dining service industry for over eight years.

Your bartender was a good bartender and it is customary in fine-dining to replace a glass of wine that the guest did not like. You are not required or expected to tip on the glass that you did not like. Tip whatever you normally would for excellent service (20% is customary) and maybe say something nice to the bartender. Nothing more required; maybe frequent that bar? :beer
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by mrc »

Levett wrote:There's nothing like walking into your neighborhood establishment and the bartender sees you and your wife/partner/buddy/girlfriend
Not all during the same visit I imagine! :sharebeer
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Levett »

mrc,

Not ordinarily! :wink:

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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by michaeljc70 »

Not to get off topic (though the topic is tipping etiquette), I often get confused on tipping when getting comped stuff. Particularly stuff I didn't order or necessarily want (appetizers, desserts, etc.) Sometimes I think I am tipping so much that I would be better off not getting free things!
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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

The bartender, who in most states in the US is paid $2.13 per hour, did a good job, and should be rewarded, unless the bartender is the owner. That person should not be tipped, and if they are, should claim no share in the tips but rather give them to the wait and kitchen staff. If the owner isn't making enough s/he can raise prices. The employees can't.

I dislike our US system for paying service providers, but until I'm democratically elected dictator I can't personally change it at one stroke.

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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by abuss368 »

I would tip on both.
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Sidney »

michaeljc70 wrote:Not to get off topic (though the topic is tipping etiquette), I often get confused on tipping when getting comped stuff. Particularly stuff I didn't order or necessarily want (appetizers, desserts, etc.) Sometimes I think I am tipping so much that I would be better off not getting free things!
If I am comped something I didn't want I don't take it. If I take it, I tip on it. For example, if the owner/manager takes something off the bill due to delays, I tip on it. If they offer a free after dinner drink for no reason and I don't want it, I just say thanks but no thanks.
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Toons »

15%
:happy
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Jags4186 »

At a restaurant I tip 18% every time no matter what on the pre-tax amount for a sit down meal. Reason being that if the meal is excellent, it usually isn't the waiters doing and if the meal sucks it usually isn't the waiters doing. If I have an issue I take it up with the manager and if it's resolved, great, if it's not, I don't return.

Tipping at a bar is a real annoyance to me because I tend to drink cheap beer and I refuse to tip 25% or 50% for someone to open up a bottle or a can of beer. I'll try to order 2 beers and tip $1 on both. I guess I'm cheap and a jerk :|
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by RyeWhiskey »

Jags4186 wrote: Tipping at a bar is a real annoyance to me because I tend to drink cheap beer and I refuse to tip 25% or 50% for someone to open up a bottle or a can of beer. I'll try to order 2 beers and tip $1 on both. I guess I'm cheap and a jerk :|
On the contrary. At many bars (excluding high-end ones), a dollar a drink is standard. I personally tip $2 on the first, and one on each to follow.
michaeljc70 wrote:Not to get off topic (though the topic is tipping etiquette), I often get confused on tipping when getting comped stuff. Particularly stuff I didn't order or necessarily want (appetizers, desserts, etc.) Sometimes I think I am tipping so much that I would be better off not getting free things!
Tip on what you consume. If you get a free appetizer that is $10, tip an extra $2 (people made it, brought it to you, and will wash up after it). If you turn it down, do not tip the extra $2. It really isn't complicated. :beer
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blueblock
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by blueblock »

My rule of thumb is 15% for basic service, 20% for good service. In your case, then, I'd have tipped 20% on the billed liquor, not taking into account the unbilled, unliked wine at all. Maybe an extra few bucks if you are regular customers.

In future--and I'm surprised this wasn't offered to your wife--ask for a taste before committing to a full glass. If they're pouring it by the glass, the bottle is already open. For the establishment, it's better to throw away an ounce than four ounces.
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by bengal22 »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:The bartender, who in most states in the US is paid $2.13 per hour, did a good job, and should be rewarded, unless the bartender is the owner. That person should not be tipped, and if they are, should claim no share in the tips but rather give them to the wait and kitchen staff. If the owner isn't making enough s/he can raise prices. The employees can't.

I dislike our US system for paying service providers, but until I'm democratically elected dictator I can't personally change it at one stroke.

PJW
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by oldcomputerguy »

meowcat wrote:My Wife and I go to a bar located inside a nice restaurant. I order a cocktail and my DW asks the bartender about wines. She's hesitant about house wines so the bartender suggested a certain wine that she has never had. She didn't like the wine. The bartender replaced it with a glass that she's familiar with and everything was good. He did not charge us for the defunct wine.
Question: When the tab arrives, do you tip on both glasses of wine, or just the one, even though one glass was no charge. As a note, the bartender was great.
Tipping should be for good service, not for good or bad food. If the bartender went above and beyond, he deserves a better tip than had he simply slopped drinks down in front of you with no effort to try to please you.

As I get older (and, I suppose, grouchier), I find myself more and more attentive to level of service, and I have absolutely no problem stiffing a server for bad service. Likewise I have lavishly overtipped when I felt someone honestly went above-and-beyond. I sleep well in either case. I have never, ever tipped a waiter well because of how the chef prepared the meal.

In your case, I likely would have tipped on both, just because of (what seems from your description to have been) excellent service.
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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

Jags4186 wrote:At a restaurant I tip 18% every time no matter what on the pre-tax amount for a sit down meal. Reason being that if the meal is excellent, it usually isn't the waiters doing and if the meal sucks it usually isn't the waiters doing. ...
In many places in the US the custom, enforced via tax withholding and reporting, is the waitstaff give a set part of their presumed tips, that is to say a state-law determined proportion of their total sales - and they are essentially in sales you understand, in effect working on commission - to kitchen staff. In those situations it's common for the waiters to owe their employer money on their $2.13/hour paydays. They have to pay for the privilege of working there, in hopes of earning tips.

Each waiter is their own private profit center, including expenses, and it's tax-accounted for that way.

It's a terrible system. I very much dislike it. It stinks.

It's also the only system we have.

Not tipping as expected, except for truly terrible service, isn't punishing the restaurant owner. It's punishing people, front and back of house, who have very little economic control over their own lives.

If one isn't prepared, with budget, to pay the expected tip, one isn't financially prepared to eat at a restaurant.

The 18% Jags4186 cites is appropriate in most places in the US. In some localities it's as low as 15%, and in others 20% is customary, but 18% is a pretty good rule to follow.

No, I'm not a waiter, but I know and have worked with a lot, in several geographies. I respect them and their choices.

Because they're fellow human beings.

PJW
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by spectec »

+++1

" If one isn't prepared, with budget, to pay the expected tip, one isn't financially prepared to eat at a restaurant. "

+++++1
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

bengal22 wrote:
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:...
I dislike our US system for paying service providers, but until I'm democratically elected dictator I can't personally change it at one stroke.
Perchance an oxymoron?
Not at all. One becomes evil overlord by popular vote. Afterward, one maintains both popularity and power.

I'm pretty sure most evil overlords we learn about from books and movies are undone because they fundamentally misunderstand this basic principle.

And we would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by mega317 »

I tip at least 20% and round up, sometimes more. The extra few bucks will give the server a smile at negligible cost to you. If the service is bad, a bad tip delivers that message crudely. From the server's point of view it could have been for any reason. Better to give the manager, or the server directly, some actionable feedback. That's how you deliver a message. Help the server get better and avoid many more bad tips in the future.
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by dbr »

You tip on the bill and how much you tip depends on the service.

The cost of absorbing wine that is replaced because the customer did not like the recommendation is already in the price of the drinks, but the service was good. A bar that tries to find a wine the customer likes is offering good service, and they already know that from time to time that will result in a wasted glass. It will also result in people ordering more, and more expensive, wine. They are the one's that made the suggestion, after all. He could have said to just make up your mind what you want and order it. That would justify a low tip.
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by JupiterJones »

If you're not sure, err on the side of the larger tip. What's another buck or two?

I've never regretted overtipping.
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

Once again, distastefully, I find myself in disagreement with dbr.

The tipped personnel are paid hardly anything and maybe have negative earnings from their employer, as I explained above. Boglehead outrage at negative bond yields is rampant. What about employees who have to pay their bosses just to legally keep their jobs? Where's the outrage about that?

Tips are not, for them, extra income, like a salaried-person's bonus might be. They're basic income. They're the underlying business model within and well beyond restaurants. Back-of-house employees in most locations also depend on them for a bare, consistent-with-human-dignity living.

Part of the employment arrangement for US workers traditionally tipped is it's their main, and perhaps only, and perhaps less than only, see my prior posts in this thread, income.

Failure to tip as expected is stealing milk from the mouths of babes.

The US rules around tipping are unconscionable. They're economically abusive. They're exploitative.

They're also the only system we have today for personal service workers to eke out rent and food money.

Tip.

PJW
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by chx »

Another tipping question, for which there may be no answer, but I would still like to hear opinions:

Suppose you generally tip 20% for nice service. Sometimes you'll go to an inexpensive restaurant, dining on your own, and have a $20 meal. So because of the nice service, you tip $4. The next night, you dine at a high-end restaurant, and the bill comes to $200. Obviously, there was a nice bottle of wine. So you tip $40.

To me, in terms of the compensation to the service staff, it makes more sense to tip $22 each night. Why don't we tip some flat rate, say $8 per hour (or whatever amount seems appropriate in the given economy)?

Perhaps part of it is that the tip at the expensive restaurant must be spilt between more people and that those people are serving fewer people at any given time. Any other thoughts? Sorry to bring up a confusing issue. I generally feel for the waitperson at an inexpensive restaurant.
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by tyrion »

chx wrote:Another tipping question, for which there may be no answer, but I would still like to hear opinions:

Suppose you generally tip 20% for nice service. Sometimes you'll go to an inexpensive restaurant, dining on your own, and have a $20 meal. So because of the nice service, you tip $4. The next night, you dine at a high-end restaurant, and the bill comes to $200. Obviously, there was a nice bottle of wine. So you tip $40.

To me, in terms of the compensation to the service staff, it makes more sense to tip $22 each night. Why don't we tip some flat rate, say $8 per hour (or whatever amount seems appropriate in the given economy)?

Perhaps part of it is that the tip at the expensive restaurant must be spilt between more people and that those people are serving fewer people at any given time. Any other thoughts? Sorry to bring up a confusing issue. I generally feel for the waitperson at an inexpensive restaurant.
Partial answer:
The waiter at the expensive restaurant is handling fewer tables (that's why he can check on you so frequently), diners tend to have longer meals (more courses, less table turnover), and he probably has more support (busboys etc) to share the tip with.

I'm sure he/she still comes out way ahead. But that is the benefit to being good at a job - you get promotions to a better, higher paying job.

I do also feel bad for the waitperson in an inexpensive restaurant. I tend to tip a higher % at inexpensive breakfast places, for example.
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by mega317 »

^ Yep to every word. In the time it takes a waiter to make it through the specials and a conversation about wine with my wife, someone at a diner could have done the entire amount of work required for several tables.
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by JonnyDVM »

If she took a sip and said to him "I don't like this" then I would just tip a normal amount. If she drank most or all of the glass and he then asked if she liked it and she responded negatively and he replaced the glass with something else free of charge, then I would tip at least a few dollars more (as if both glasses had been on the bill).
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by zeep »

Since we are on tipping etiquette, I have always wondered whether tipping should be based on pre-tax or post-tax amounts.
I would like to think I'm tipping generously at 20%, but it seems to me that should be pre-tax rather than post-tax. Yet most apps that provide for in-app tipping (Lyft, LevelUp etc.) use post-tax bill.

The difference is significance when dining with a group. What is convention? How do servers view it? I don't think the server should be tipped on what gets paid to the government, but I wouldn't want what I view as 20% to be perceived as a 16.6% slight.

Thoughts?
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by White Coat Investor »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:Once again, distastefully, I find myself in disagreement with dbr.

The tipped personnel are paid hardly anything and maybe have negative earnings from their employer, as I explained above. Boglehead outrage at negative bond yields is rampant. What about employees who have to pay their bosses just to legally keep their jobs? Where's the outrage about that?

Tips are not, for them, extra income, like a salaried-person's bonus might be. They're basic income. They're the underlying business model within and well beyond restaurants. Back-of-house employees in most locations also depend on them for a bare, consistent-with-human-dignity living.

Part of the employment arrangement for US workers traditionally tipped is it's their main, and perhaps only, and perhaps less than only, see my prior posts in this thread, income.

Failure to tip as expected is stealing milk from the mouths of babes.

The US rules around tipping are unconscionable. They're economically abusive. They're exploitative.

They're also the only system we have today for personal service workers to eke out rent and food money.

Tip.

PJW
It's even worse that a big chunk of that income isn't part of the tax base.
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by Fieldsy1024 »

On the bill I try to go 22%
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by JonnyDVM »

zeep wrote:Since we are on tipping etiquette, I have always wondered whether tipping should be based on pre-tax or post-tax amounts.
I would like to think I'm tipping generously at 20%, but it seems to me that should be pre-tax rather than post-tax. Yet most apps that provide for in-app tipping (Lyft, LevelUp etc.) use post-tax bill.

The difference is significance when dining with a group. What is convention? How do servers view it? I don't think the server should be tipped on what gets paid to the government, but I wouldn't want what I view as 20% to be perceived as a 16.6% slight.

Thoughts?
You're overthinking it. I just look at final total do 20% then round somewhere around there. Speaking as a guy that used to be a server no one is going to feel slighted if you do 20% pretax. 10%? Yah, they're going to feel slighted.
Last edited by JonnyDVM on Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tipping Etiquette Question.

Post by FedGuy »

zeep wrote:Since we are on tipping etiquette, I have always wondered whether tipping should be based on pre-tax or post-tax amounts.
I was literally taught in school (in a "personal finance" unit of our math class in...junior high school, maybe?) that tips are to be calculated pre-tax. My parents did the same thing, so that's what I do.

Lately, I've seen some receipts that include a few lines at the bottom telling you what, say, 15%, 18%, and 20% of the bill are, and have noticed that they often (not always) use post-tax. I mentioned that to the group I was dining with the first time I saw it, and the consensus was that (1) tips are to be calculated pre-tax, and (2) the restaurant (or, at least, the vendor that programmed the check-generating software) was cheating and hoping people wouldn't notice.
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Re: Tipping Ettiquet Question.

Post by Paul78 »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:The bartender, who in most states in the US is paid $2.13 per hour, did a good job, and should be rewarded, unless the bartender is the owner. That person should not be tipped, and if they are, should claim no share in the tips but rather give them to the wait and kitchen staff. If the owner isn't making enough s/he can raise prices. The employees can't.

I dislike our US system for paying service providers, but until I'm democratically elected dictator I can't personally change it at one stroke.

PJW
Well then shouldn't part of my tipping etiquette be based on the state of service? In my home state of California shouldn't I tip less (they already get minimum wage) compare to when I am vacationing in a $2.13 state like Texas?
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