Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

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davidsorensen32
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Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by davidsorensen32 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:26 pm

Hello, should we feel we’ve “arrived” when we achieve

1. Vanguard Flagship status
2. 2 commas in our networth excluding primary residence
3. Paid off primary residence
4. All investments in 3 fund portfolio
5. >401K in our 401(k)
6. >800+ FICO
7. <0.10bps weighted ER
8. > 2nd bend on Social security curve : https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/bendpoints.html
9. > $2,000 per year on CC promos
10. TLH: -$3000 deduction every year from taxable income
11. ~0 increase in tax liability due to investment from income
12. Fully funded college tuition per kid in 529s
13. 4% SWR + Pension > living costs for the rest of our lives?
14. Term life insurance + living wills
15. Maintain AA even during bear markets
16. No cable - no CNBC, no WSJ, no Jim Cramer
17. 6 months emergency fund in Vanguard Intermediate Term Tax Exempt Admiral shares

What else?

Updated: with recommendations from fellow members. Thanks Guys.
Last edited by davidsorensen32 on Fri Jul 01, 2016 2:36 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Petrocelli
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by Petrocelli » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:36 pm

Rolex
Petrocelli (not the real Rico, but just a fan)

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Driver
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by Driver » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:38 pm

I'm not sure how you should feel. That's for you to decide. I'd feel grateful for any of the achievements you've listed. I've felt I've "arrived" on many occasions. Then the feeling went away once I was used to it. There's always going to be someone with more. C'est la vie.

young-ish
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by young-ish » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:41 pm

Awesome list David!

I would add that Bogleheads have arrived once they achieve total ignorance of financial media.

No CNBC, no Wall Street Journal, no Bloomberg and especially no investment newsletters.

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celia
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by celia » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:42 pm

Petrocelli wrote:Rolex

ROTFL :D

Emergency Fund? (which should be the first thing you "invest in")

davidsorensen32 wrote:12. Fully funded college tuition per kid in their 529s

I hope you meant the the 529 accounts are in the parents' names.


However, I think you've "arrived" when you have an account at Vanguard :oops:
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.

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JamalJones
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by JamalJones » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:48 pm

Well, I think you "arrived", but just barely. I don't know, a 5% SRW would be better. There's still time, however. It's never too late to start saving more money. Car insurance, groceries, utilities, cell phone, going out to eat, travel, other entertainment.... There are many ways to cut back or eliminate these expenses.

I'll let other Bogleheads suggest books and websites, but those are just some things to think about.

MOTBH!
TSP + Vanguard Roth IRA: 80% equities (C, S, I Funds and VTSAX,VTIAX, VEMAX) / 20% bonds (F and G Funds) | MOTBH!

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by miamivice » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:55 pm

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Last edited by miamivice on Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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saltycaper
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by saltycaper » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:58 pm

davidsorensen32 wrote:
What else?


1) Sense of purpose in life

2) Love of others over self

3) Humor and humility

. . . .

A hundred other things

. . . .

The things on your list
"I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said." --Alan Greenspan

surfhb
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by surfhb » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:03 am

saltycaper wrote:
davidsorensen32 wrote:
What else?


1) Sense of purpose in life

2) Love of others over self

3) Humor and humility

. . . .

A hundred other things

. . . .

The things on your list


There ya go!

There isnt one thing on your list which provides a good life.

davidsorensen32
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by davidsorensen32 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:03 am

Petrocelli wrote:Rolex


I dunno man. The jury is still out on this one. :D I updated my list with some other great recommendations.
Last edited by davidsorensen32 on Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

davidsorensen32
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by davidsorensen32 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:06 am

surfhb wrote:
saltycaper wrote:
davidsorensen32 wrote:
What else?


1) Sense of purpose in life

2) Love of others over self

3) Humor and humility

. . . .

A hundred other things

. . . .

The things on your list


There ya go!

There isnt one thing on your list which provides a good life.


You can always hit Las Vegas for the good life :sharebeer . My list provides for that.

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njboater74
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by njboater74 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:07 am

When you open the doors to your car, do they open up and down?
When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and tell the whole world - 'No, YOU move'--Captain America, Boglehead

davidsorensen32
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by davidsorensen32 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:08 am

njboater74 wrote:When you open the doors to your car, do they open up and down?


I don't have a car :sharebeer

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Petrocelli
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by Petrocelli » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:09 am

davidsorensen32 wrote:
njboater74 wrote:When you open the doors to your car, do they open up and down?


I don't have a car :sharebeer


Or does your chauffeur open them for you?
Petrocelli (not the real Rico, but just a fan)

davidsorensen32
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by davidsorensen32 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:11 am

Petrocelli wrote:
davidsorensen32 wrote:
njboater74 wrote:When you open the doors to your car, do they open up and down?


I don't have a car :sharebeer


Or does your chauffeur open them for you?


:D I don't have a car. I use uber when I need a car. So I open the doors myself and the doors open sideways. :D :D

TonyDAntonio
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by TonyDAntonio » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:15 am

I arrived last Thursday then I BRexited on Friday.

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njboater74
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by njboater74 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:22 am

davidsorensen32 wrote: :D I don't have a car. I use uber when I need a car. So I open the doors myself and the doors open sideways. :D :D


Uber...yes, you have truly arrived.
When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth and tell the whole world - 'No, YOU move'--Captain America, Boglehead

inbox788
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by inbox788 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:19 am

davidsorensen32 wrote:Hello, should we feel we’ve “arrived” when we achieve

1. Vanguard Flagship status
2. 2 commas in our networth excluding primary residence
3. Paid off primary residence
4. All investments in 3 fund portfolio
5. >401K in our 401(k)
6. >800+ FICO
7. <0.10bps weighted ER
8. > 2nd knee on Social security curve
9. > $2,000 per year on CC promos
10. TLH: -$3000 deduction every year from taxable income
11. ~0 increase in tax liability due to investment from income
12. Fully funded college tuition per kid in their 529s
13. 4% SWR + Pension > living costs for the rest of our lives?
14. Term life insurance + living wills
15. Maintain AA even during bear markets
16. No cable - no CNBC, no WSJ, no Jim Cramer
17. 6 months emergency fund in Vanguard Intermediate Term Tax Exempt Admiral shares

What else?

Updated: with recommendations from fellow members. Thanks Guys.


You may have arrived, but you haven't reached the summit.
1. Vanguard Wealth Management https://investor.vanguard.com/wealth-management/
2. 2.33+ commas
3. Paid off vacation home, summer home, ski lodge, and international escapes
5. Who needs a 401k?
6. Who needs to worry about a FICO?
9. Who cares about CC promos?
13. 2% SWR or live off dividends alone
14. Who needs life insurance?
17. I like that one. It's been on my list of goals to figure out where to put the emergency fund and Ive been leaning towards that one.

There was a time when you were no one and knew no one. Over your career, you developed a list of important people and kept their contacts in your Rolodex. You thought you "arrived" when you had enough important people in that Rolodex and people became envious about the size of your Rolodex. Then one day, you realized all the important people didn't even have a Rolodex. They were the ones being called and if they needed to reach someone, they'd have someone with a big Rolodex working for them.

Reminds me of the joke about what's the difference between rich and wealthy? Something about the rich work for the wealthy.

And there's this one:

“Many people think that being rich and being wealthy are the same thing,” said rich dad. “But there is a difference between the two: The rich have lots of money but the wealthy don't worry about money.”

http://www.richdad.com/Resources/Rich-D ... ealth.aspx

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by Barefootgirl » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:53 am

Poor man wanna be rich. Rich man wanna be king. King ain't satisfied until he rules everything.


It's a trap, I tell ya.
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celia
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by celia » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:09 am

inbox788 wrote:There was a time when you were no one and knew no one. Over your career, you developed a list of important people and kept their contacts in your Rolodex. You thought you "arrived" when you had enough important people in that Rolodex and people became envious about the size of your Rolodex.

Later on, Rolodex became "Rolex". You should see the one Petrocelli has!
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:15 am

Being able to sit back during a weather event and enjoy its beauty rather than worrying over how it will impact my job. (That's one I'm really looking forward to sometime in the next twelve months.)
Anybody know why there's a 20-pound frozen turkey up in the light grid?

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by bondsr4me » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:26 am

surfhb wrote:
saltycaper wrote:
davidsorensen32 wrote:
What else?


1) Sense of purpose in life

2) Love of others over self

3) Humor and humility

. . . .

A hundred other things

. . . .

The things on your list


There ya go!

There isnt one thing on your list which provides a good life.


+1 on all the above...Don

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jharkin
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by jharkin » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:16 am

You actually have to ask?

Financially, you are better off than 95%+ of your fellow Americans. So if money is the yardstick, the answer is of course is yes... unless you goal is to hobnob with Bill and Warren.

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by munemaker » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:25 am

celia wrote:
Petrocelli wrote:Rolex

ROTFL :D

Emergency Fund? (which should be the first thing you "invest in")

davidsorensen32 wrote:12. Fully funded college tuition per kid in their 529s

I hope you meant the the 529 accounts are in the parents' names.


However, I think you've "arrived" when you have an account at Vanguard :oops:


We are past the 529 stage in our lives. If I remember correctly though, regulations do not permit the 529 accounts to be in the kids's names.

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by AlohaJoe » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:25 am

If you do credit card promos or have life insurance, then you have not yet arrived.

gvsucavie03
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by gvsucavie03 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:38 am

6 month EF sounds low at your level. I'd want a year going into retirement with some in a CD ladder, MMA's, etc.

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by The Wizard » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:04 am

AlohaJoe wrote:If you do credit card promos or have life insurance, then you have not yet arrived.

Yeah, life insurance is often no longer needed once your portfolio is large enough to cover the demise of the particular person.
I cancelled mine when I was around 45...
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by The Wizard » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:07 am

gvsucavie03 wrote:6 month EF sounds low at your level. I'd want a year going into retirement with some in a CD ladder, MMA's, etc.

Not sure I agree.
Main emergency is job loss and retiring makes that moot.
You're not a closet bucketeer, are you?
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blueblock
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by blueblock » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:08 am

You have arrived when you reach your destination.

:P

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midareff
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by midareff » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:54 am

Petrocelli wrote:Rolex



naw, Patek.

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JDCarpenter
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by JDCarpenter » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:57 am

blueblock wrote:You have arrived when you reach your destination.

:P


And, at least so far, we all have the same destination as our ancestors!

[excluding all debate/belief about after death....]
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Fieldsy1024
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by Fieldsy1024 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:17 am

When you stop worrying about money and trust automatically paying yourself first. Also being wealthy is much much better than looking wealthy. Life is too short to constantly worry about things you cannot control, so put yourself in the best position by listening to the experts here.

orca91
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by orca91 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:22 am

What's the old saying... If you have to ask,...... :happy

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by The Wizard » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:42 am

orca91 wrote:What's the old saying... If you have to ask,...... :happy

Aside from slightly misleading topic line, the OP is actually asking if he/she has missed anything putting their financial house in order.
I don't see any major holes; they seem to have done a good job.

There is missing information which will help in projecting what comes next.
Ages?
Percent of gross income going to long term investments?
Net income after long-term savings?

That last item (Net income) is my preferred definition of "expenses", which includes infrequent large purchases, assuming that excess income doesn't pile up unspent year after year. This is the minimum amount of income desired if they retire in the next year...
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ljb1234
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by ljb1234 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:52 am

I suggest you read John Bogle's "Enough".

orca91
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by orca91 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:54 am

I don't think the OP was actually asking anything. I think they were just putting together a list of Boglehead milestones, so to speak.

I also don't think the thread is very actionable, has anything to do with consumer issues, and that sarcasm is lost on some... :happy

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LiveSimple
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by LiveSimple » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:10 am

Please explain "> 2nd knee on Social security curve"

DonM17
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by DonM17 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:16 am

More important than being financially secure is having good health - without that, money is secondary...look at the late Steve Jobs....having a fortune did not extend his life.

Nowizard
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by Nowizard » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:23 am

At best, the very good list shows arrival at a solid financial base. There are many things in life that come before achieving all of these worthwhile goals, and some would say the Boglehead goal is not so much an arrival as a continuing process toward living a life that is financially secure, emotionally meaningful and filled with purpose independent of financial status. Many who are Bogleheads will never achieve the level of financial security implied in this list but will be Bogleheads nonetheless.

Tim

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SpringMan
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by SpringMan » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:45 am

orca91 wrote:I don't think the OP was actually asking anything. I think they were just putting together a list of Boglehead milestones, so to speak.

I also don't think the thread is very actionable, has anything to do with consumer issues, and that sarcasm is lost on some... :happy

Agreed, having arrived sounds snobbish. My Gordie Howe RIP thread was locked because it was not actionable. How is having arrived actionable? Should we hold our pinky finger up when we drink our tea?
Best Wishes, SpringMan

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by mhc » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:57 am

AlohaJoe wrote:If you do credit card promos or have life insurance, then you have not yet arrived.


+1

Also, if you need a dedicated Emergency Fund, then you have not yet arrived.

If you talk about what it takes to arrive, then you have not arrived.

I don't know if I have arrived or not. I don't think in those terms.

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by jhfenton » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:20 am

munemaker wrote:
celia wrote:
Petrocelli wrote:Rolex

ROTFL :D

Emergency Fund? (which should be the first thing you "invest in")

davidsorensen32 wrote:12. Fully funded college tuition per kid in their 529s

I hope you meant the the 529 accounts are in the parents' names.


However, I think you've "arrived" when you have an account at Vanguard :oops:


We are past the 529 stage in our lives. If I remember correctly though, regulations do not permit the 529 accounts to be in the kids's names.

I assume OP means FBO each kid. The parents would be the owners, but each account has a named beneficiary. I certainly think in terms of DS's 529 and DD's 529, even though I am the owner.

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by Impromptu » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:22 am

It's the journey.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

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BarbaricYawp
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by BarbaricYawp » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:39 am

I'd add a Sustainable and healthy lifestyle (eating, exercise, regular medical 'maintenance' stuff)

Like LiveSimple I'd also like an explanation of #8
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by LarryAllen » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:39 am

For me it's driving an old car (current is almost 10 years old), and I am a "car guy," knowing I could pay cash for a new whatever I want... and even probably some small car dealerships for that matter. I see people drive buy in (probably) leased [insert fancy car name here] and I smile to myself. Millionaire Next Door type mentality. It took a long time to get here though!

lightheir
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by lightheir » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:08 pm

Financially independent, meaning you don't need to work at all unless you to choose to, and still will have a comfortable retirement (based on your desired standard of living.)

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by LarryAllen » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:41 pm


If you talk about what it takes to arrive, then you have not arrived.



+1

Rodc
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by Rodc » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:22 pm

When you have enough.

And that includes more than $$$.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:30 pm

If you don't have any Grey Poupon, then you have not arrived.
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goingup
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Re: Bogleheads, have we "arrived" ?

Post by goingup » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:34 pm

lightheir wrote:Financially independent, meaning you don't need to work at all unless you to choose to, and still will have a comfortable retirement (based on your desired standard of living.)

That's it!
Destination? Financial independence.

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