Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

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Pharmacist
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Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Pharmacist » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:29 am

I'll be looking into buying a new car in the next year or so and don't really know where to even start.

I'm looking for :
-AWD
-Android auto would be nice
-I honestly have a pretty strong bias against Honda/Hyundai/Nissan/Toyota though I'll admit I was just in a 2015 Civic and it was a lot nicer than I expected
-Has to look good of course

Really the bottom line is it just has to look good and AWD would be really nice for me to have. Probably hard to give any suggestions because "looks good" is highly subjective but I'm just looking for some ideas. I don't care so much if it gets 25 MPG vs 30 MPG or has 210 HP vs 230 HP.

I don't know much about cars; and honestly I'm not even sure how common AWD is in low-mid price range on new cars. I was hoping to spend 20k or less but it seems like AWD isn't available in more than a few (if any) cars at this price point. I see Subaru has one but the car is sooo ugly.

I like of like the look of the Mazda 3 Sedan but no AWD. Seems like it's really only offered in the luxury lines. The Cadillacs I'm looking at online are pretty nice but hard to justify the price; if I were to spend that much I'd probably just go ahead and buy a Ram Larmie 1500. I really don't want to buy an SUV either just to get cheaper AWD.

I have a Cobalt I bought new and though I can't really complain about the car, I don't think I'd buy another compact (it was actually a gift so I didn't really get to give any input) and the car is worthless in any type of weather.

Am I missing something here?

miles monroe
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by miles monroe » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:36 am

subaru is easily the most popular brand among my circle of aquaintances (outdoor oriented). as you say, cars are subjective, so i'm gonna predict that by the time this thread is done every AWD car made is gonna be suggested by someone.

Polymath
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Polymath » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:47 am

As you said, looks are subjective, but I find the Fusion to be quite handsome inside and out.
It also has Sync3 which allows you to use it natively, or install Apple CarPlay or Android Auto.

http://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/

dbr
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by dbr » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:50 am

miles monroe wrote:subaru is easily the most popular brand among my circle of aquaintances (outdoor oriented). as you say, cars are subjective, so i'm gonna predict that by the time this thread is done every AWD car made is gonna be suggested by someone.


Yes, every thread in this forum, or probably in any forum, that asks this kind of question will eventually accumulate mention of every vehicle on the market. After all if someone is not choosing those cars they wouldn't still be for sale. In addition we will hear reasons why some models that aren't actually AWD would be just as good or better and that it isn't AWD that matters but rather having proper snow tires.

I will offer one suggestion, which is that if price point of $20K is a primary issue, then maybe buying a used car is indicated. As the OP has already indicated, the offerings are pretty slim in that price range.

As far as AWD systems are concerned the general opinion is that Subaru and Audi have the best engineering. I would probably agree that wanting a good looking car probably excludes everything on the market most of the time. That criterion might need re-thinking.

livesoft
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by livesoft » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:56 am

I would not have clicked on this thread if "$20K or under" was in the title. :twisted:
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VGisforme
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by VGisforme » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:59 am

Let's start with why you think you want AWD? Are you worried about winter traction? If so you will come out ahead from a safety and financial standpoint If you get 2wd with a nice set of snow tires for winter.

You are right many AWD sedans are luxury models trying not to feel FWD or trying to get the power down.

Style is so subjective, if you really want some size go for a Chrysler 300 or Dodge Charger. You can't get the V8 in AWD anymore but the V6 is strong with the 8-speed.

If you want smaller try the Fusion. I understand resisting the SUV I much prefer the dynamics of a large sedan.

Pharmacist
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Pharmacist » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:01 am

livesoft wrote:I would not have clicked on this thread if "$20K or under" was in the title. :twisted:


It's not strict. I could spend 12k or I could spend 45k. Just depends on if I like the vehicle lol

And to the people saying that eventually every car will be suggested; that's fine by me.
Last edited by Pharmacist on Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Bacchus01
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Bacchus01 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:03 am

If you do a poll here, I would bet $1000 that Subaru will be number one and probably not close.

That said, I drive BMWs and find their AWD system to be great

livesoft
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by livesoft » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:07 am

Pharmacist wrote:
livesoft wrote:I would not have clicked on this thread if "$20K or under" was in the title. :twisted:


It's not strict. I could spend 12k or I could spend 45k. Just depends on if I like the vehicle lol

But it ain't $200,000 or more which is what I'm thinking of when the word "Best" is used.
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Pharmacist
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Pharmacist » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:08 am

Actually I take that back, the Subaru Legacy looks pretty nice. I was looking at the WRX initially.

dziuniek
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by dziuniek » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:10 am

I would imagine a base model Subaru Impreza somewhat fits your criteria... Now if you change it to under 30k, you've got a few more options.

radiowave
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by radiowave » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:10 am

If you are in snow country, the other consideration other than AWD is ground clearance. My wife has a Subaru Legacy, very nice car, good long road driving, however we leave it in the garage when there is more than 3-4 inches of snow due to ground clearance. I drive a 12 year old Honda CR-V AWD with Firestone Winterforce tires and it has done very well in 12 inches or more of snow. Also, I've only had to replace the air conditioner compressor and an oxygen sensor in the fuel system and other than routine tires and batteries, the Honda is running as good as it left the show room floor at 150,000 miles and counting. I'm hoping for 200k before my next CR-V and I'm still getting 25-26mpg. YMMV :)
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by livesoft » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:10 am

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campy2010
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by campy2010 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:12 am

A new version of the Impreza is coming out at the end of the year. Downside is historically Subarus have teething issues in the first year of a new model. So I would hesitate to buy one until later in 2017 or 2018.

NHRATA01
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by NHRATA01 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:13 am

Have you considered a Buick Regal? A fully loaded AWD GS, you can probably get into for mid-high 30s, or a couple grand less for the non-GS models (which incidentally have the same engine). If you were looking at Cadillacs, I'm assuming that was the ATS. Regal will be 10-15K cheaper equally equipped (HID headlights, all the interior goodies, driver safety aids, nav, etc, etc) and have a bit more rear seat and trunk room. You also get the same "better" warranty as Cadillac - 4/50 bumper to bumper and 6/70 powertrain. I bought a '12 FWD GS new for quite a bargain back then and have enjoyed the car immensely.

I do not know if the newest infotainment software has Android Auto yet, I do believe it has Apple Carplay - of course no help if you have an android as I do. They may offer a software upgrade eventually, GM has been rolling Android Auto out among a few of its models that way.
Last edited by NHRATA01 on Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

poker27
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by poker27 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:15 am

G37 or if you could pony up, Q50. If I had to pick a car right now, the Q50 would be at the top of my list. You can get a great bang for the buck purchasing a few years used.

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jharkin
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by jharkin » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:35 am

+1 to what dbr and VGisforme have said - first we need to know why you want AWD? Where do you live?

Unless you regularly need to drive in winter before the plows have run AWD is not really needed. In fact it can actually get you in more trouble - the ONLY thing that AWD helps with is acceleration and hill climbing. It does little for cornering and nothing for braking and if you are going to get into an accident in the winter its gonna be from loosing traction when you hit the brakes. Around here I tend to see more AWD suv's in the ditch than regular FWD cars because the AWD makes drivers over confident and they end up driving to fast on a slick surface and slide off the road when they hit the brakes. There has been lots of research on this point - agree with others that priority #1 is good snow tires, then you can add AWD if you want and the budget allows.

There are few good options for AWD under 20k. There is also a tremendous amount of variety in the systems that get called "AWD" since there is no real industry standard nomenclature.

The Subaru "symmetrical" system is what a lot of folks think of as a traditional AWD. longitudinal (front-back) engine with 3 differentials that powers al the wheels all the time. With traction control now standard its pretty much impossible to get in a situation where one wheel will spin (this WAS possible on AWD before traction control and limited slip diffs). Subarus are a beast in snow and would be a top choice if you do backwoods x country skiing and need to drive through a foot of un-plowed snow on a gravel forest road (do you?)


Audi's Quattro is also well respected and works similar to Subarus but typically with more electronic aids. BMW Xdrive and Mercedes 4matic are similar. Each has its own specific implementations but all are basically a 3 differential system with various electronics aids, etc. The thing to be ware of is that the German makes all tend to be far less reliable than Subaru and the other Japanse brands. I have a friend with a 10 year old xdrive and the trans/center diff just blew up to the tune of a near 5 figure replacement bill!

(also note that there are different versions of Audi Quattro. The higher end cars with longitudinal engines have the traditional setup - nicknamed "true quattro" by the purists, but some of the lower end Audis with transverse engines like the A3/A4 have a part time system that works more like the Honda system below. These systems are all derived from a FWD platform and VW 4motion works the same way )


A different type of AWD is the system that Honda uses in the CRV, Pilot, Ridgeline, MDX, etc. Its not really AWD at all but rather 4 wheel drive on demand. Honda takes a traditional transverse engine front wheel drive system and adds a full time transfer case and driveshaft to the rear wheels. In place of the rear differential there is a pair of electronic clutch packs that can variably apply power to the rear wheels. Whereas the Subaru system is specifically designed for snow and mud driving, Hondas system is made to optimize handling and they can do tricks like apply torque to the outside wheel in a turn to make oversteer on demand (in the Acura SH-AWD version). The upside is better fuel economy than a full time AWD system, the downside is that the system is not capable of fully locking up the rear so its less capable offroad.

A third type of AWD system is found on some SUVs and trucks and is a hybrid of AWD and 4WD. The usual distinction of AWD vs. 4WD is that a 4wd system has a locking center transfer case rather than a diff and you can turn the all wheel function on and off at will - but when its on the front and rear wheels are locked together with no differential action. This gives max traction but it hurts turning ability - and as such is best suited for true off road: mud, sand, rock driving. I say that this system is a variation because in vehicles that have it the center transfer case is usually electronically controlled and has the option of being either open (2wd), acting like a diff (AWD) or locked up (4WD). Some vehicles that have these options include Jeeps and certain Toyota SUVs (4Runner, FJ and Land Cruiser).


The 4th type is old fashion 4WD/4x4. This is your typical pickup truck (F150, Silverado, Tacoma/Tundra, etc) setup where there is a central transfer case that's either open or locked in 4 wheel. Often enhanced with various traction control and locking differential system based on how off-road oriented the vehicle is.


Sorry to go on, but as you can see all/4 wheel drive systems are a complicated subject and there are lots of different systems and the one most appropriate to you (if you need it at all) depends on where you live and what conditions you want to drive it in.
Last edited by jharkin on Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:43 am

Maserati Ghibli AWD

Everything else looks ugly by comparison.

We have 2 Subarus and a Wrangler in our family. They are all ugly as they go past all the stuck Explorers on all seasons. We run snows on all of our cars.
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dickyboy
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by dickyboy » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:13 am

I like my Ford Edge and my Ford Escape, both have AWD. Very nice handling on the winter roads in the north country.

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by DireWolf » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:23 am

jharkin wrote:The thing to be ware of is that the German makes all tend to be far less reliable than Subaru and the other Japanse brands. I have a friend with a 10 year old xdrive and the trans/center diff just blew up to the tune of a near 5 figure replacement bill!


Excellent analysis until this part. Don't lump "all" the German makes together. Audi was named the overall best in reliability. That's #1. BMW and Mercedes have traditionally been unreliable makes.

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by KyleAAA » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:33 am

If under $20k and AWD are both requirements, a used Subaru is really your only viable option. You could potentially get an older Audi, but maintenance is going to be a lot more expensive than with a newer Subie. Do you REALLY need AWD? FWD with winter tires does great in the snow, after all. If you don't mind going with a crossover or small SUV, you have a lot more options. Since you mentioned you liked the Mazda 3, the CX5 crossover uses the exact same drive chain and is almost identical in the interior except it's higher off the ground and is available in AWD. It's close to $30k new, though.

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jharkin
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by jharkin » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:35 am

DireWolf wrote:
jharkin wrote:The thing to be ware of is that the German makes all tend to be far less reliable than Subaru and the other Japanse brands. I have a friend with a 10 year old xdrive and the trans/center diff just blew up to the tune of a near 5 figure replacement bill!


Excellent analysis until this part. Don't lump "all" the German makes together. Audi was named the overall best in reliability. That's #1. BMW and Mercedes have traditionally been unreliable makes.


[EDIT to clarify - I think my post came off snarkier than intended. I'd really like to see what survey ranked them #1 as Ive never seen them anywhere near it in the usual sources]


By whom? Not according to Consumer Reports, Edmunds or True Delta...

I will say I am impressed and surprised that Audi is up to the top 5 in the last couple years CR surveys.. only a few years ago they where in the bottom half so maybe they are turning things around. But I'd want to see them maintain that position year after year before I'd really trust them. Honda and Toyota topped these lists every single year for decades and while they have stumbled a bit recently I would not write them off the top spot until it becomes a trend.

(2014 list in article) http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 06293.html

(2016 list in article) http://www.autonews.com/article/2015102 ... ity-survey


If this upward trend continues I'll have to give them another look. I've always liked how they ride but avoided owning one due to the reputation.
Last edited by jharkin on Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:43 am

I have an Infiniti G37s which is available in AWD. (I have the 6MT with RWD, they offer a 7 speed auto with paddle shifters and AWD though)

The car looks amazing, drives like it is on rails, and the interior is very nice. Service is very easy and cheap since it can be done at any Nissan dealer/mechanic.

stoptothink
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by stoptothink » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:47 am

As others have mentioned, you need to figure out why it is you think you need AWD as that significantly limits your options. Just an anecdote, but I drive a FWD subcompact (Hyundai accent) and with snow tires have never once had an issue in a decade of living in Utah. My brother drove his AWD Mercedes up here last December, he got stuck 4 times in a single weekend. If snow traction is the concern, don't assume that AWD is the answer.

degraafics
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by degraafics » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:22 am

I would highly recommend NOT buying a Subaru.
From engines that burn oil from new to having head gasket issues, rebuilding engine, extremely poor corporate support and shady dealerships.... that's been my experience with our 2013 Subaru Outback.

We bought a new 2013 Outback and Subaru has a deal where they do the service/oil changes for the first 1 or 2 services. Our oil light went on before we even brought it in for the first 10,000 mile oil change. I told the service desk attendant and he said its normal for Subarus to burn up to a quart of oil between oil changes. I had already added a quart of oil before 10,000 miles. That upset me so I started changing my own oil and watching it. I consistently had to add 1-2 quarts of oil every 3000 miles.

In the meantime, the plastic on the rear door around the window actuator was cracking from my daughter frequently closing that door (poor quality material), the windshield wiper rubber completely disintegrated within 3 years (garage kept car), seemingly simple things like changing a head light is an almost epic task due to the way the access is designed, and overall the quality of the material they use seems very sub-par.

Fast forward to 2016 and the car is burning more oil than before and I get a letter in the mail that Subaru is being sued because of this exact issue (proves my issue). So I have to take the car in to get an oil consumption test done. Basically they change your oil and you bring the car back after 1200 miles to see if it's burning over 1/3 of a quart or more. If so, they are supposed to rebuild your engine with new rings, pistons, etc. (on a 3 year old or less car). This issue spans many of the Subaru models too that share the 4 cylinder engine.

This is the website that Subaru had to set up for info about the oil consumption issue - http://www.oilconsumption.settlementclass.com/

I take the car in to get the service and this is the start of anther major issue with Subaru... the dealership I took it too was dishonest in their testing.
They changed the oil for the oil consumption test but they filled it up 1/2 a quart too much then put tape around the oil dipstick so it wouldn't be removed and basically fixing the test so it would pass even if it should fail....

Around post #16 there's another person with the same issue of overfilling by 1/2 a quart at the dealership when they are supposed to do the oil change test: #16 Matt says:
April 23rd, 2014 at 11:00 pm
http://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/subar ... nsumption/

and a number of law suits about this issues: http://www.torquenews.com/1084/2nd-new- ... nst-subaru

Then I went back the next day to have the mechanic fix the issue, where I had him pull the dipstick in front of me to verify that it he had filled it up with 1/2 a quart too much... then to not have him or the shop apologize or acknowledge there "mistake"
It took almost 2 hours for them to then drain 1/2 a quart of oil and fix their "mistake"... it was only when I started complaining to the service guy about how long does it take to drain the oil and correct the issue that they started to get moving. Then they wanted me to just pull out without verifying their work. Any honest shop or shop with good customer experience as a principle would have bent over backwards... but not these guys.

I've never had such a bad experience with a dealer/shop or auto manufacturer. This experience with Subaru has truly left me with a bad taste with me for all things Subaru.

After driving the car for 1100 miles and checking the oil to see that it had indeed already burned a half a quart of oil, I knew that the car would fail the test.

I had to make a decision at that point and determine weather to continue with a car, shop and company that I had lost all respect for and trust. I most certainly did not want to have a 2013 Outback that was now going to have to have the motor worked on by guys that couldn't even do an oil change correctly. Not only that, but it would go on the maintenance record with a rebuilt engine and would be an issue when I might try to sell the car.

I couldn't imagine having guys working on our car who couldn't even do a basic oil change correctly to rebuild the engine. I've googled around and found other instances about the same rigged oil consumption test too
test: #16 Matt says:
April 23rd, 2014 at 11:00 pm
http://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/subar ... nsumption/

They would have to pull the entire engine to rebuild it and it would be "like new" once I received it back. Rebuilt engines are never as good as a factory assembled engine. Having guys at that shop do more than change an air filter would be more than I'd trust them to do after being too inept to do a proper service/oil change when that should have been an easy task.

We've since gotten rid of the Subaru and moved on to a more reliable car and auto manufacturer.

Never again will I put any trust behind a Subaru made product.

I can assure you that by Subaru not fixing the problem correctly and not treating their customers with good customer experience has and will cost Subaru many future customers. I, for one will never buy another Subaru again.

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Spirit Rider » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:16 pm

I live in an area with long snowy winters. My driveway is about a 100 yards of straight significant incline. You will not get out of my driveway after snow storms that melt and freeze after clearing, heavy slush/sleet storm that freezes or an ice storm without 4WD/AWD. Let me tell you I have tried over the last 26 years.

I have owned a Subaru, 4WD pickup and for the last eight years a Ford Fusion. Notwithstanding the supposed superior engineering of the Subaru AWD system, the Fusion has pleasantly surprised me with superior traction and handling than the Subaru.

I also have to disagree with the assessment that AWD does not help with handling. Yes, it is true that 4WD/AWD does not help one bit with stopping and most people get in trouble with a false sense of security and going to fast for the conditions. However, I find that AWD does provide superior handling in slippery conditions, even just when cornering in heavy rain.

I have driven both an Infinity G37X and Q50. The G37X handled better that my Fusion, Even though the Q50 is a supposedly new and improved G37X, it cornered like a 70's Cadillac.

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by jharkin » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:32 pm

DireWolf wrote:
Excellent analysis until this part. Don't lump "all" the German makes together. Audi was named the overall best in reliability. That's #1. BMW and Mercedes have traditionally been unreliable makes.



Add to my response above... I did a some more googling and I think I found the report you are referencing: Consumer Reports "Best Car Brands 2016"

http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/whi ... -vehicles/

You should read the scoring details - this list is not ranked by reliability. Its an overall brand ranking that combines reliability, road test score and % of models that are on the CR reccomended list to produce a weighted average score using some proprietary scoring model. Audi won in the Average, but their reliability sub-score is "above average" whereas Lexus and Toyota still top the reliability category with a "best" rating.

Looking through the list I'm honestly shocked at how high BMW ranks given their reliability history and in turn surprised at how low Honda has sunk - that might turn around after they recover from the dismal last generation Civic effort.

But back to you original point, the latest CR reliability only data does show that Audi is steadily climbing and may get there yet. Like I said before Im pleasantly surprised and might need to rethink my opinion of them.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/how ... liability/

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by tim1999 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:41 pm

Used Infiniti G37X. Probably can get a 2012, or a 2013 with higher miles for 20k. Reliable and proven engine.

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by NHRATA01 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:25 pm

AWD certainly helps with snow handling. If you know what you are doing with the throttle, you can keep the front end from plowing as it will on a FWD car, and most definitely keep the tail from coming around on you on a RWD. As for stopping, little will help you there other than allowing plenty of space.

I've driven rear, front and 4/AWD in the snow. I can get by with any, but will take the ease of AWD any day.

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by randomguy » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:48 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:Maserati Ghibli AWD

Everything else looks ugly by comparison.

We have 2 Subarus and a Wrangler in our family. They are all ugly as they go past all the stuck Explorers on all seasons. We run snows on all of our cars.


Audi R8:)

Realistically for 20k and awd you are talking Subaru or a 3-5 year old a4, 3 series, or other near luxury sedan. Most people are opting for crossovers in this space and companies like Honda/Toyota don't offer many awd sedans

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Jabberwockt » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:52 pm

A second set of winter tires on steelies rims (like a set of Blizzaks) is the way to go IMO. That's what they do in Europe, don't know why it isn't more common here. Heck i'd take Blizzaks over AWD in bad weather.

On the other hand, if you are looking for another car that just happen to have AWD, its probably hard to beat a Subaru. There are so options with audi & bmw, then there's the Honda Crosstour that flopped,

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Rotarman » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:10 pm

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss AWD. I used to live in a place with a lot of snow and had a horrendously sloped driveway. Many a snow-tire laden FWD tried to make it up and failed. AWD/4WD from a myriad of different brands could always make it up unless the snow was substantially higher than the ground clearance (although one couldn't until the horrible tires that came with it were replaced). Unfortunately, not too many AWD domestic cars for some reason, though some flagships like Taurus and Charger come in AWD

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Wtlutz » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:24 pm

Bought a 2016 Subaru Legacy 3 months ago. Have around 3,000 miles on it and have not had to add any additional oil.
So far I would highly recommend this vehicle. Consumer Reports rate Subaru owners highest in customer satisfaction and would likely purchase a Subaru again. Paid around $25K for the Legacy 2.5i Premium with Eyesight and remote start.

mw1739
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by mw1739 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:32 pm

How about a Volvo sedan?

Atilla
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Atilla » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:35 pm

livesoft wrote:I would not have clicked on this thread if "$20K or under" was in the title. :twisted:


Yep - once I noticed the under 20K I quit reading.
The Village Idiot - here for your entertainment.

sambb
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by sambb » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:41 pm

lease an A4 or a 3 series BMW for 3 years, and figure out if that is the direction you want to go. Yeah it might cost slightly more than buying, but little risk. I think this is the best option

randomguy
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by randomguy » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:20 pm

mw1739 wrote:How about a Volvo sedan?


nice cars but they are like a BMW, Audi, or acura in terms of price (you get a bit more for your money but they still tend to be a 35-40k with AWD) and the current ones are a bit outdated (i.e. the 5 cylinder engine in the AWD is due to be replaced, should be getting nav like the XC90 in the next 12-18 months). Personally I hate how you have to buy the top of the line car to get decent headlights.

The list of AWD cars under 25k (MSRP) is pretty darn short.
Lancer
Imprezza
Legacy

are the ones edmunds list. You have some chance of getting a ford fusion or Chrysler 200 for that much (they are closer to 30k cars MSRP but tend to have big discounts.

After that you are off in used car land. You can get 4 or 5 year old Audis and BMWs for that price. But you have to remember buying is only part of the price. You are still going to have to pay the maintence on a 40k car.

If you were ok with cross over (the small ones are basically hatchbacks) things like the hrv and the mazda 3 would be roughly in the price range.

rgs92
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by rgs92 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:32 pm

I see (on various used car sites) several used late model AWD Chrysler 300 sedans with 15-to-30K miles for under $20,000. There are many with very low mileage, close to new, for a little more money. It's a pretty comfortable car. I sat in several at the car show. I never owned one but if I was looking for a bargain I would look there. Maybe some people here could comment on their experience with them. I'd be curious.

anoop
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by anoop » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:32 am

BMW 320i xdrive.
A barebones version is 36K MSRP. I'd be surprised if you could not get it for 33K before taxes.
Audi A3 2.0T Quattro
A barebones version is 34K MSRP.

tim1999
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by tim1999 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:56 am

rgs92 wrote:I see (on various used car sites) several used late model AWD Chrysler 300 sedans with 15-to-30K miles for under $20,000. There are many with very low mileage, close to new, for a little more money. It's a pretty comfortable car. I sat in several at the car show. I never owned one but if I was looking for a bargain I would look there. Maybe some people here could comment on their experience with them. I'd be curious.


Most of the near new ones are likely former rentals. I think they are great looking cars. However, as a shorter person, I thought the visibility from the driver's seat was poor, even with it raised all the way up. The car has a high beltline and I felt like I was buried in it. A few years they changed the gear selector to a weird non traditional thing that looks like a "T", I found it difficult and imprecise to use, sometimes took a couple tries to get it in the right gear. I hear for new models they have changed to a round knob which I have used in a Ram truck and is far easier/intuitive. The price represents a good value on used ones though.

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tinscale
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by tinscale » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:56 pm

Be advised that AWD helps with traction but not braking, or handling unless you are dirt-tracking or drifting and going around corners faster than you should.

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topper1296
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by topper1296 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:19 pm

I have a Subaru Forester and love it. I've had no issues with it and was fantastic when we had a heavy snow (for Nashville) this past winter. Added bonus with the Forester is it has great headroom which is a much for me at 6'5.

btenny
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by btenny » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:14 pm

I suggest a good late model used Lincoln MKZ sedan with AWD. You can select from many lightly used cars depending on what you want to spend and how many miles are on the car. A good sample of 2013 MKZ AWD cars is shown below. All are under $28K. It is a nice good looking sedan with most of the creature comforts and lots of tech goodies. It rides well and is quiet and comfortable. It has a great stereo. I have older version in FWD and really like the car.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale ... true&Log=0

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by goldenbb » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:51 pm

Wtlutz wrote:Bought a 2016 Subaru Legacy 3 months ago. Have around 3,000 miles on it and have not had to add any additional oil.
So far I would highly recommend this vehicle. Consumer Reports rate Subaru owners highest in customer satisfaction and would likely purchase a Subaru again. Paid around $25K for the Legacy 2.5i Premium with Eyesight and remote start.


I had a 2014 Legacy 2.5i Sport that I posted about in one of the other threads that had similar oil issue as the one posted about above. Notice I say "had" because I traded that car at some loss to get out from under that nightmare. Oil light at 3000 miles! What a freaking joke! Not only did it have the oil consumption problem (which the dealer says is totally normal), it also had the CVT, the "Continuously Annoying Transmission" that was fine at first and then drove me more and more crazy later on--I really tried to like it. The windshields seem to have a tendency to crack at the slightest provocation as well--I barely had 500 miles on the car when I had to spend $350 for new glass. I don't beat on my cars, this was all on them. The paint job was not great, either--very thin. It was otherwise a sharp looking, comfortable, acceptable handling car, but I will not be buying any more Subarus.

As far as Audis go, I'm not sure they still hold the reliability crown. But sometimes I think owners of various German brands throw stones at each other. Our family has owned Mercedes cars a lot and they weren't so hot on maintenance issues but nothing terrible, either. I've never owned Audis, they do look nice. A good friend owns an AllRoad and a TT and both of those cars drive him mad with repair issues. I might one day buy a Porsche 911 of some kind, but will certainly have other cars as well. I currently own a couple of older BMWs that I repair myself. I traded the Subaru for a 2013 328i, which is a very nice car for daily driving, and yes, it's X-Drive.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:58 am

tinscale wrote:Be advised that AWD helps with traction but not braking, or handling unless you are dirt-tracking or drifting and going around corners faster than you should.


Isn't this the definition of handling? Being able to take corners better, etc.? :?

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by Maverick3320 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:33 am

Pharmacist wrote:Actually I take that back, the Subaru Legacy looks pretty nice. I was looking at the WRX initially.


I just bought a new 2016 Legacy with the Premium package and eyesight safety package. 25,001 negotiated price. Couldn't be happier at this point.

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jharkin
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by jharkin » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:35 am

DaftInvestor wrote:
tinscale wrote:Be advised that AWD helps with traction but not braking, or handling unless you are dirt-tracking or drifting and going around corners faster than you should.


Isn't this the definition of handling? Being able to take corners better, etc.? :?


It depends. On dry pavement a typical AWD car will corner worse than a well balanced RWD car. The extra drivetrain weight up front makes the car nose heavy which promotes understeer and asking the front wheels to split traction between propulsion and cornering also hurts.

If you take a car that is available either RWD or AWD (such as a BMW 335i vs. 335i XDrive or a G37 vs. G37x) all else being equal, on a dry racetrack with professional drivers at the wheel the RWD version will post a faster lap time.

In loose traction situations like mud & sand (and somewhat wet pavement), AWD is a definite benefit to handling as the powered front wheels in effect drag the nose around.

Now there are exceptions to every rule, as AWD systems can be tuned for road handling (examples the system on Porsche 911 turbos, the Subaru STI & MItsubishi Lancer, Acura SH-AWD, etc) but most cars have the system optimized for poor weather driving.

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by midareff » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:52 am

Pharmacist wrote:I'll be looking into buying a new car in the next year or so and don't really know where to even start.


Am I missing something here?



Well.... I think so. Your headline is for "Best" but your language is for low to mid price. They would seem to be mutually exclusive IMHO. If you want the best and you want AWD I'd saunter down to the MB dealer and try a C400 sedan or coupe in AWD, or even a CLA class. Next stop would be the Audi store for an A3, 4 or 5 depending on your size needs.

OTOH, I'm probably to old now to understand how a car buying decision could be driven by the inclusion or not of Google Play.

Have you checked out a 4WD Jeep Patriot or Liberty?

randomguy
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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by randomguy » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:51 am

midareff wrote:
Pharmacist wrote:I'll be looking into buying a new car in the next year or so and don't really know where to even start.


Am I missing something here?



Well.... I think so. Your headline is for "Best" but your language is for low to mid price. They would seem to be mutually exclusive IMHO. If you want the best and you want AWD I'd saunter down to the MB dealer and try a C400 sedan or coupe in AWD, or even a CLA class. Next stop would be the Audi store for an A3, 4 or 5 depending on your size needs.

OTOH, I'm probably to old now to understand how a car buying decision could be driven by the inclusion or not of Google Play.

Have you checked out a 4WD Jeep Patriot or Liberty?


You do realize that neither of them are Sedan's:) And they tend to make the german cars look reliable:)

I can see carplay/android auto being useful. It saves you money (i.e. you don't have to update maps in 5 years) and keeps the nav part up to date (who knows what will be happening in 10 years). But you can get the same effect with a 10 buck mount which might not be as convienant but means I wouldn't pay 1000's of dollars for the feature.

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Re: Best AWD Sedan/Coupe?

Post by dbr » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:13 am

I bought a new car recently thinking of looking for an AWD sedan. I discovered that sedan body styles these days afford terrible visibility outside the car, back and side especially. After googling for best outside visibility and getting Forrester and Outback as the number 1 and 2 hits I changed my ideas about what I wanted and am very glad I did. I did not imagine making this work inside the cost constraint suggested by the OP but did spend less than I might have on the sedan.

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