Trade in BMW?

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BUBear29
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Trade in BMW?

Post by BUBear29 » Sat May 14, 2016 11:45 pm

Hey Bogleheads!

I've had my 2012 BMW X5 diesel for 4 years now and the maintenance plan runs out in November. I've had no issues with car and always have it serviced annually. I always hear horror stories about BMWs after the 'free' maintenance period about costs to maintain and replace parts. I've considered trading it in and getting a Lexus RX or Lexus sedan but Im not sure what to do. I know Lexus will last much longer and costs less to maintain. Should I keep the bimmer? I boughr it new and have rode the depreciation down to $30k even though it only has 40k miles on it (crazy how fast they depreciate).

I really appreciate the advice!
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

Swansea
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by Swansea » Sun May 15, 2016 5:12 am

This is really a question of how much driving pleasure means to you. Most would agree the BMW is more fun, and more sporty to drive. Yes, it can be more expensive to maintain, but if you have access to a good independent mechanic, you can reduce costs. My 535XI 2008 has not had any costs aside from maintenance (24K mileage), save the replacement of 5 injectors and the hpfp, both of which were done and paid for by a recall. My 98 328 has 92K mileage, and just requires routine maintenance. The outside temperature gauge is the only thing that does not work.
For other opinions, and there are many, please visit the bimmerfest forum.

jucor
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by jucor » Sun May 15, 2016 7:40 am

You've already taken the depreciation hit. If you trade for a new RX or similar you will be paying an additional $25-30k plus your trade in, and that new car will also start depreciating fast. Even if you have $5000 worth of repairs a year for 5 years you're ahead of the game with your current car.-- and although BMW's are not cheap to service, that's not a likely scenario, especially given your low mileage.

You are almost certainly far better off financially keeping your reasonably new, low mileage, heavily depreciated BMW and paying for repairs as needed.

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Chris001122
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by Chris001122 » Sun May 15, 2016 7:56 am

I agree that keeping the car could be better financially than buying a newer or later model luxury car such as a Lexus. However, older car maintenance costs, especially a BMW's costs, could also be a substantial drain on your savings.

Do you need a luxury brand car for your job? If not, would you consider driving a used Honda or Toyota? I have a 2007 Honda Accord and my wife drives a 2007 Toyota Camry. These have been very reliable and the maintenance costs have been low thus far. I plan on keeping them until the maintenance costs begin to exceed the cost of getting a newer car.

I don't think having a luxury car is a sign of moral weakness, but some studies have shown that millionaires tend to own popular brands and models of cars with the luxury cars being less common than one would think. In fact, luxury car owners are more often not high net worth individuals.
"It's always been a mistake to bet against the United States since 1776." - Warren Buffett

TravelforFun
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by TravelforFun » Sun May 15, 2016 8:01 am

I'd owned BMW and Mercedes in the past but my last two car purchases are Lexus. I bought them new, an RX in 2010 and an ES in 2015. Problems with German cars are they start having problems after 5-6 years and the parts are so expesive. I love my Lexus. The RX is out of warranty but has required no repairs. I keep my cars maintained as recommended and my experience with Lexus has been great and I probably will not go back to German cars anytime soon.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by jabberwockOG » Sun May 15, 2016 8:07 am

If you really love the BMW and it is in good shape look into purchasing a 3rd party extended warranty contract. They are not cheap but may be a good plan and a reasonable plan for certain high cost brands and models.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/auto_warranty/#

Longdog
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by Longdog » Sun May 15, 2016 8:08 am

I have a 10 year old BMW that I bought new. It's been a great car. I think the reputation for expensive and frequent repairs, relative to other cars, is somewhat exaggerated. From years six to ten, I've had a few unexpected repairs, but I would expect that from any car at that age. I typically use a good independent mechanic. It still runs great and is a lot of fun to drive. I will keep it at least until I get my Tesla Model 3, and may even keep it at that point as a second car. I feel I've gotten my money's worth out of it, and don't regret keeping it for this long.
Steve

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TX_TURTLE
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by TX_TURTLE » Sun May 15, 2016 8:29 am

BUBear29 wrote:Hey Bogleheads!

I've had my 2012 BMW X5 diesel for 4 years now and the maintenance plan runs out in November. I've had no issues with car and always have it serviced annually. I always hear horror stories about BMWs after the 'free' maintenance period about costs to maintain and replace parts. I've considered trading it in and getting a Lexus RX or Lexus sedan but Im not sure what to do. I know Lexus will last much longer and costs less to maintain. Should I keep the bimmer? I boughr it new and have rode the depreciation down to $30k even though it only has 40k miles on it (crazy how fast they depreciate).

I really appreciate the advice!


You can extend the factory warranty up to 7 years/100,000 miles. If you like the car this may be your best option. Just be sure to buy the extended warranty from BMW, at the dealership. Many aftermarket ones don't have a good reputation.

BUBear29
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by BUBear29 » Sun May 15, 2016 8:49 am

Thanks for all the responses this far! I don't necessarily need a luxury car brand but this is my wife's car. I drive a 2013 Toyota 4Runner and will drive it for 10 more years. So I wanted to keep her in a nice car. If we did trade in the bimmer, we could trade in for a 1 year old Lexus IS at same value with low mileage and 3 more warranty years or slightly more (but less than $10k) for a slightly used RX. My idea through all this is to spend little to no money today so that I will not have to spend money on repairs in the future. We are pretty agnostic to driver experience and my wife had an IS before and liked it.
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

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jharkin
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by jharkin » Sun May 15, 2016 8:54 am

The bad reputation of BMWs and Mercedes comes primarily from all the electronics in them and to a lesser extent the fragile cooling systems. Ive been told that up until the 80s or so they where dependable easy to fix cars that could last forever if well maintained. From the 90s on they just started getting ridiculously complex.

Common issues include:
- the entire cooling system blowing up at 90k miles (For some reason BMW uses a lot of fragile plastic in the cooling system - plastic water pumps and plastic t stat housings).
- If your BMW has VANOS that system is notorious for failures
- coil packs and injectors going bad (common to all European brands. Bosch and Continental electronics simply are not as dependable as the Denso components the Japanese brands use)
- HPFP problems on direct injection engines
- Turbos
- ECU problems (a bad battery on a later model BMW = an expensive trip to the dealer to get the ECU reprogrammed)
- other electronic gremlins like failing window regulators, etc

For an insider perspective, read Mike MIller's "BMW long term maintenance schedule" Mike is the technical editor of the BMWCCA magazine.

If you decide to keep it depends on whats more important. Cheap and reliable or fun. If you love the driving experience of the bimmer you are probably going to zzzzzzz behind the wheel of a Lexus. But it wont likely leave you stranded on the roadside or in the poorhouse paying mechanic bills. Its a head vs. the heart decision.... when I was a kid right out of college my roommate had an E36 M3. I used to love taking that out for a spin but in retrospect I'm glad I wasn't stupid enough to dump what little money I had into buying one at that age.......

staustin
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by staustin » Sun May 15, 2016 9:55 am

jharkin describes me exactly... we're current owners of a german turbodiesel... amazingly fun, quick car. Test driving a lexus last week for the wife, left me BORED. I realized I can't go back. and, i'm ridiculously cheap.

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tractorguy
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by tractorguy » Sun May 15, 2016 12:07 pm

Based on my experience, you'll shortly be getting an offer from your BMW dealer to sell you a 2 or three year extension on your warranty. The cost for this, plus cost of oil and filter changes, will set an upper limit on the average cost of keeping your BMW. On the one hand, BMW and the dealer make a lot of money on these extended warranties so you know that many people could have saved money by turning down this service as I did on my 07 328i. On the other hand this doesn't console you when you're one of the unlucky few who have to replace a computer.

The most expensive way to own a car is to trade it when it still has a lot of life yet. In your shoes I'd keep the BMW a few more years and then trade it in on a loaded Toyota, Honda, GM product or Ford. In my experience a highly optioned Toyota is just as comfortable to drive as a Lexus but much less expensive to own. They cost less to buy initially, take regular instead of premium fuel, and if you have them serviced at a dealer, a Toyota dealers charges will be less than a Lexus for similar work. If you buy a Lexus you are buying bragging rights. I'd rather brag about the good deal I got on the cheaper car.
Lorne

sambb
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by sambb » Sun May 15, 2016 12:14 pm

if you are going to sell, i would consider leasing if you change your car every 3-4 years. 3 year lease may be better for you.

BruDude
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by BruDude » Sun May 15, 2016 10:07 pm

Buy an extended warranty from Fidelity Platinum or USAA. Will probably cost you $3-5k but that's a heck of a lot less to lose than trading in the car. I bought an extended warranty from USAA on my M3 for $2100 and in the first 4 months of having it I had the evaporator unit replaced at $0 cost. Without warranty it would have cost me $3400 (!!!!). The extended warranty also was a very attractive selling point when I did decide to sell the car since most others for sale had no warranty and repairs on M3's are incredibly expensive, even compared to other BMWs.

daveydoo
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by daveydoo » Sun May 15, 2016 10:28 pm

I think you need a reply specific to this car. You have a spectacular engine -- that 6-cylinder diesel is the same as my 2011 335d (the last year they put them in 3-series -- now they're all wimpy 4-cylinders). It's a powerhouse and an absolute blast to drive, as I'm sure you know. But you're in the sweetspot -- selling it now to buy someone else's headache doesn't seem smart to me. You've put this through its paces. The tech is still current. If you're selling, I'll buy it! Issues with this drivetrain are carbon buildup in that engine engine so best if it's not just driven short distances. Used to be a very expensive fix, but now they have a cheaper workaround (I'm told). A second -- and one that affected me -- is the urea-level sensor in the urea tank. It's integral to the tank but they just changed to a more modular design so that just the sensor can be replaced. Mine went out during that manufacturer transition so I had to wait months for the fix. It was technically out of warranty but BMW covered it and kept me in a succession of free brand-new loaners for months. But it was an absolute joy to get that engine back -- more torque than a full-size pick-up. Since this is Bogleheads, I'll add that I got this used right off a two-year lease with < 20K mi at ~ 40% below new (?!). I've loved every minute of it. All my others were Toyotas and Hondas that required so much "maintenance" (thank-you, dealers) that I figured I might as well get something I like. Three years in and I still look forward to my drive to and from work. I think you'd be unhappy with a Lexus after driving this.

BruDude
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by BruDude » Sun May 15, 2016 10:33 pm

daveydoo wrote:I think you need a reply specific to this car. You have a spectacular engine -- that 6-cylinder diesel is the same as my 2011 335d (the last year they put them in 3-series -- now they're all wimpy 4-cylinders). It's a powerhouse and an absolute blast to drive, as I'm sure you know. But you're in the sweetspot -- selling it now to buy someone else's headache doesn't seem smart to me. You've put this through its paces. The tech is still current. If you're selling, I'll buy it! Issues with this drivetrain are carbon buildup in that engine engine so best if it's not just driven short distances. Used to be a very expensive fix, but now they have a cheaper workaround (I'm told). A second -- and one that affected me -- is the urea-level sensor in the urea tank. It's integral to the tank but they just changed to a more modular design so that just the sensor can be replaced. Mine went out during that manufacturer transition so I had to wait months for the fix. It was technically out of warranty but BMW covered it and kept me in a succession of free brand-new loaners for months. But it was an absolute joy to get that engine back -- more torque than a full-size pick-up. Since this is Bogleheads, I'll add that I got this used right off a two-year lease with < 20K mi at ~ 40% below new (?!). I've loved every minute of it. All my others were Toyotas and Hondas that required so much "maintenance" (thank-you, dealers) that I figured I might as well get something I like. Three years in and I still look forward to my drive to and from work. I think you'd be unhappy with a Lexus after driving this.


That urea sensor went bad in my 335D at 20k miles and was covered under warranty but I was told it's a ~$2-3k fix if not warrantied. Crazy.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by daveydoo » Sun May 15, 2016 10:40 pm

True -- but you gotta admit that car's a blast! I figured there'd be the occasional issue. Oh, and I go through a lot of tires, but that's not the car's fault. Every time I take an older Honda in, there's $500 - $800 of nonsense that's recommended.

BruDude
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by BruDude » Sun May 15, 2016 10:44 pm

daveydoo wrote:True -- but you gotta admit that car's a blast! I figured there'd be the occasional issue. Oh, and I go through a lot of tires, but that's not the car's fault. Every time I take an older Honda in, there's $500 - $800 of nonsense that's recommended.


The 335D was great....until I drove an E92 M3. :D

The E92 M3 was also great....until I drove a 991S and Cayman GTS. :D :D

daveydoo
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by daveydoo » Sun May 15, 2016 11:25 pm

BruDude wrote:
daveydoo wrote:True -- but you gotta admit that car's a blast! I figured there'd be the occasional issue. Oh, and I go through a lot of tires, but that's not the car's fault. Every time I take an older Honda in, there's $500 - $800 of nonsense that's recommended.


The 335D was great....until I drove an E92 M3. :D

The E92 M3 was also great....until I drove a 991S and Cayman GTS. :D :D


Well-played! They're outta my league in more ways than one! Enjoy!

BruDude
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by BruDude » Sun May 15, 2016 11:27 pm

daveydoo wrote:
BruDude wrote:
daveydoo wrote:True -- but you gotta admit that car's a blast! I figured there'd be the occasional issue. Oh, and I go through a lot of tires, but that's not the car's fault. Every time I take an older Honda in, there's $500 - $800 of nonsense that's recommended.


The 335D was great....until I drove an E92 M3. :D

The E92 M3 was also great....until I drove a 991S and Cayman GTS. :D :D


Well-played! They're outta my league in more ways than one! Enjoy!


It's a disease...

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mbk734
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by mbk734 » Mon May 16, 2016 9:18 pm

If you've taken care of it, it's the best used vehicle you can buy. 4 years 40k is nothing. Bummers don't usually break down until at least 100k. :P If you want a reliable appliance, Lexus is a good choice. If you are worried about maintenance, don't. If you are bored with it already, consider leasing. If you want to save money, buy used next time. Since we're on the Bogleheads forum, I should tell you to forget BMW and Lexus and get yourself a Camry. There, I said it.
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BUBear29
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by BUBear29 » Mon May 16, 2016 11:42 pm

mbk734 wrote:If you've taken care of it, it's the best used vehicle you can buy. 4 years 40k is nothing. Bummers don't usually break down until at least 100k. :P If you want a reliable appliance, Lexus is a good choice. If you are worried about maintenance, don't. If you are bored with it already, consider leasing. If you want to save money, buy used next time. Since we're on the Bogleheads forum, I should tell you to forget BMW and Lexus and get yourself a Camry. There, I said it.


I love the bimmer. Sadly, I have considered getting rid of it to get a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry. I think I'm going to keep it and find a good independent mechanic. The next car will certainly be used like my Toyota 4runner.

I think I just worry too much but thats why Im on Bogleheads I guess! :sharebeer
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

willie838
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by willie838 » Tue May 17, 2016 12:48 am

i'm trying so hard to find people selling cars like these.

between the rock and the hardspot. stealership wants to rob you on the trade in, private sale is a pain in the ass for a lot of people so they just take the trade in undercut.

LifeIsGood
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by LifeIsGood » Tue May 17, 2016 6:58 am

My son has a 3 series BMW diesel and just found out he needs $6,000 worth of repairs - leaky turbocharger and carbon buildup in the engine.

BUBear29
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by BUBear29 » Tue May 17, 2016 7:33 am

willie838 wrote:i'm trying so hard to find people selling cars like these.

between the rock and the hardspot. stealership wants to rob you on the trade in, private sale is a pain in the ass for a lot of people so they just take the trade in undercut.

Everything is for sale depending on price! PM me if interested and I'll entertain but no promises :D
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

BUBear29
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by BUBear29 » Tue May 17, 2016 7:39 am

LifeIsGood wrote:My son has a 3 series BMW diesel and just found out he needs $6,000 worth of repairs - leaky turbocharger and carbon buildup in the engine.

Thats awful! What year model?
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

inbox788
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by inbox788 » Tue May 17, 2016 7:58 am

Chris001122 wrote:In fact, luxury car owners are more often not high net worth individuals.

Spending on luxury cars takes away from net worth. If your net worth is high enough, it doesn't matter.

IMO, low net worth individuals shouldn't be buying luxury cars, and buying luxury cars shouldn't turn high net worth individuals into low net worth individuals.

bigred77
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by bigred77 » Tue May 17, 2016 8:29 am

My wife and I have an 07 X3 and an 08 328i. Both right around 95k miles.

Both cars I bought used around the 5 year mark with about 60k miles, no warranty. I have a good independent mechanic. Maintenance needs to be done a little more often than on Japanese or US cars. Maintenance is a little more expensive than on Japanese or US cars. The BMWs are sooo much more fun to own than Japanese or US cars (at least in my opinion). The reputation about being an expensive, unreliable car is way overblown in my experience.

That being said, I hope to push these cars for another 4 years. When the time to replace them comes around we're thinking of doing a 3 yr old CPO 5 series (about 40% discount to buying new) and a brand new Lexus RX. For basically the same price you can get a 3 yr old CPO X5 or a brand new RX 350. We will probably opt for the Lexus if those price points stay consistent.

ctreada
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by ctreada » Tue May 17, 2016 9:22 am

We have a 117k on a 2006 325xi that we bought used in 2009 w/ 50k miles on it.

So far, so good. Very reliable (knock on wood) :)

I'm keeping mine because as others on this thread have mentioned, I've already taken the depreciation hit. If I can squeeze out a few more years and invest what I'd have paid on a car note, all the better. And my wife just bought a Volvo XC60 so we have a good road trip vehicle.

When something does go wrong on a BMW, you're certainly going to pay quite a tax. That's the downside.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by TheOscarGuy » Tue May 17, 2016 10:41 am

BUBear29 wrote:Thanks for all the responses this far! I don't necessarily need a luxury car brand but this is my wife's car. I drive a 2013 Toyota 4Runner and will drive it for 10 more years. So I wanted to keep her in a nice car. If we did trade in the bimmer, we could trade in for a 1 year old Lexus IS at same value with low mileage and 3 more warranty years or slightly more (but less than $10k) for a slightly used RX. My idea through all this is to spend little to no money today so that I will not have to spend money on repairs in the future. We are pretty agnostic to driver experience and my wife had an IS before and liked it.


I had an X5 I kept for almost 6 years. I kept it for 2 years out of warranty, since it ran out in 4 years. I spent around 6K within 2 years maintaining the vehicle, and the last maintenance (that I did not take care of) would have cost me $600 -- got rid of it at that point.
I also bought it for the wife. For me, it was a question of cost + reliability. I had good 68K on it, and it left me stranded twice in my ownership. The last time it happened was when it had spent 3 days in shop, and had to be taken back to shop. That's when I got the quote of around $600 to take care of something related to battery.

Looking back I would probably have kept the car if it didn't have the reliability issue within a day of being in garage. It was my wife's car and I did not want any part of the reliability of the car. So we got rid of it.

And BTW my wife still missed that car. She says it felt very solid and sure footed when driving. She has driven a few SUVs, including Lexus and does not think anything matches her BMW.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by sunny_socal » Tue May 17, 2016 5:40 pm

TheOscarGuy wrote:I had an X5 I kept for almost 6 years. I kept it for 2 years out of warranty, since it ran out in 4 years. I spent around 6K within 2 years maintaining the vehicle, and the last maintenance (that I did not take care of) would have cost me $600 -- got rid of it at that point.
I also bought it for the wife. For me, it was a question of cost + reliability. I had good 68K on it, and it left me stranded twice in my ownership. The last time it happened was when it had spent 3 days in shop, and had to be taken back to shop. That's when I got the quote of around $600 to take care of something related to battery.


That's pretty bad! :?

But I've also been through the BMW experience and they aren't cheap to maintain. My Toyotas and Hondas have been very reliable albeit not nearly as exciting/interesting to drive as the BMW. Like a moth to a flame, I feel drawn back to BMW. I'm hoping that a Toyota Highlander with leather will feel nice enough when we go car shopping for our next one. I'd better not even test drive a BMW! :mrgreen:

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by Colorado13 » Tue May 17, 2016 9:04 pm

Longdog wrote:I.... From years six to ten, I've had a few unexpected repairs, but I would expect that from any car at that age.....


In comparison, I drive a 9-year old Hyundai and have had one unexpected repair: a rock chip in the windshield. So, I would be surprised and disappointed if I had major repairs on a 6-10 year old car. I realize this may be an apples vs. cabbage comparison, however.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by anoop » Tue May 17, 2016 11:20 pm

sunny_socal wrote:But I've also been through the BMW experience and they aren't cheap to maintain. My Toyotas and Hondas have been very reliable albeit not nearly as exciting/interesting to drive as the BMW. Like a moth to a flame, I feel drawn back to BMW. I'm hoping that a Toyota Highlander with leather will feel nice enough when we go car shopping for our next one. I'd better not even test drive a BMW! :mrgreen:


I almost totally agree with this statement. BMW's aren't that expensive until you get to 100K miles. After that, just doing preventative maintenance is a lot of money (not scheduled service, but replacing things that are known to fail in order to avoid being stranded). From 100K to 220K, my 2003 325i was costing me about 3-4K in maintenance for each 25000 (mostly highway) miles. Towards the end, I was hitting the high end of that number.

You might be surprised but BMWs aren't as much fun anymore. Try a Jaguar XE 35t instead.
Last edited by anoop on Tue May 17, 2016 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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whodidntante
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by whodidntante » Tue May 17, 2016 11:38 pm

The main cost of owning a newish luxury car like yours is depreciation, not maintenance. Don't use cost as justification for buying a Lexus. The math cannot be made to work. That Lexus will murder you on depreciation as well.

That said, it's your money and I suspect you are doing alright so do what you like. :sharebeer

anoop
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by anoop » Tue May 17, 2016 11:47 pm

Specific to BMWs, BMW does sell both an extended warranty and maintenance that will cover you to 6 yr/100K for maintenance and up to 7 yr/100K for warranty. You can get one or both and there are a variety of plans for the warranty (powertrain, everything but the electronics, everything). So that is one option for the OP if he/she wants peace of mind. The prices for those are VERY variable from dealer to dealer (can vary by thousands), so make sure you shop around, and hopefully you can find a dealer that is willing to share the MSRP for those. The best you would be able to do would be a hundred or two under MSRP, but if you can get it for MSRP you're doing good.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by BruDude » Wed May 18, 2016 9:03 am

USAA has the best priced full-coverage aftermarket warranty that I've found. I got a 5 year 75k mile warranty on my 2010 M3 for $2200, dealer wanted $6k. It's an exclusionary warranty and they covered the $3400 evaporator unit job at $0 cost with no wait. The car had 23k miles when I bought the warranty, though I'm sure a 40k mile car will be more expensive.

johnriley
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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by johnriley » Wed May 18, 2016 9:13 am

jharkin wrote:read Mike MIller's "BMW long term maintenance schedule" Mike is the technical editor of the BMWCCA magazine.


This!! As long as you are maintaining your car well -- regular washes, waxes, and seals, 5000-7500 mile oil changes, and replacing fluids that BMW claims are "lifetime fill", you will be good to go. They are great cars that not only drive well and are much safer than Japanese, in my experience, but are reliable if you take care of them. After being in an accident, I would not trade my BMW for anything given their commitment to end to end quality.

If you want my maintenance schedule or want me to recommend one, shoot me a PM. I've got a mechanic here in Atlanta that I've befriended but also do a lot of the maintenance myself, and have become a bit of an expert. Own a E39 BMW, F10 BMW, and Audi Q7 TDI.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by jharkin » Wed May 18, 2016 9:31 am

johnriley wrote:
jharkin wrote:read Mike MIller's "BMW long term maintenance schedule" Mike is the technical editor of the BMWCCA magazine.


This!! As long as you are maintaining your car well -- regular washes, waxes, and seals, 5000-7500 mile oil changes, and replacing fluids that BMW claims are "lifetime fill", you will be good to go. They are great cars that not only drive well and are much safer than Japanese, in my experience, but are reliable if you take care of them. After being in an accident, I would not trade my BMW for anything given their commitment to end to end quality.


Nice cherry pick of that one line out of context :oops: . You should read the first two pages of Mikes document:

Also, there is a reason why new BMWs depreciate faster today than every before – they have reliability problems, and
only the dealer and very few independent shops can fix them. Personally I believe the days of the 300,000-mile daily driver BMW are drawing to a close – they’re just going to be too expensive to repair. But I could be wrong, and my readers want an Old School Maintenance Schedule regardless so here it is!

- Mike Miller, BMW Car Club of America Technical Editor, 2011



Its NOT about fluid changes. All the oil changes in the world wont fix unreliable electronics. The reliability issues in modern BMW are more fundamental than that and even Mike admits it. I was a subscriber to the CCA mag for a few years, Mike himself warns readers off long term ownership of post 2000's model BMWs and has stated he will no longer own one outside of warranty.



BMW's average customer leases and never owns one more than 3-4 years and they know it, and engineer to it.

There is a difference between initial build quality and fit/finish (Germans are good at it) and long term reliability (Germans suck miserably at it, the Japanese excel). Truedelta, Consumer Reports and other statistical sources bear this out beyond dispute.

For example:
http://www.truedelta.com/BMW-3-Series/r ... Accord-108
Last edited by jharkin on Wed May 18, 2016 10:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by TheOscarGuy » Wed May 18, 2016 9:45 am

johnriley wrote:This!! As long as you are maintaining your car well -- regular washes, waxes, and seals, 5000-7500 mile oil changes, and replacing fluids that BMW claims are "lifetime fill", you will be good to go. They are great cars that not only drive well and are much safer than Japanese, in my experience, but are reliable if you take care of them. After being in an accident, I would not trade my BMW for anything given their commitment to end to end quality.

If you want my maintenance schedule or want me to recommend one, shoot me a PM. I've got a mechanic here in Atlanta that I've befriended but also do a lot of the maintenance myself, and have become a bit of an expert. Own a E39 BMW, F10 BMW, and Audi Q7 TDI.


From personal experience of 6 years, I disagree.
Our X5 was always dealer serviced. We did not do "regular washes and waxes" and I don't think that speaks to how car performs mechanically. I also question these are safer than Japanese, in fact BMW is notorious for getting models out that don't always match other luxury manufacturers with respect to crash tests. 3 and 5 series have had marginal rating for "small overlap" for quite a few model years, where other car companies have scrambled to make their next MY safer than the one that performed poorly.
Dont get me wrong, I love driving it and haven't yet driven any other car that handled as well as my X5. But despite regular scheduled maintenance, it was not reliable.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by surfstar » Wed May 18, 2016 10:05 am

https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/x5/2014/roa ... pecs1.html
Handling comments Slalom: A surprisingly sloppy handler. The steering is intuitive enough, turns in respectably, but there's quite a bit of body roll after that along with minimal grip from the tires. An overly aggressive stability control just compounds the frustration of getting this big rig through the quick back-and-forth motions of the slalom. Skid pad: While the grip level of the X5 is nothing to brag about, this exercise at least showed that the chassis has some fun tuned in, as the tail would step out playfully during on/off throttle transitions, particularly with the stability control system switched off.


I don't get what the fuss of an X5 is. Its the same as any CUV - a bloated station wagon, except its pricier and a little more fun to drive b/c its a BMW.


As to the OP - I would never own a German luxury vehicle outside of lease/warranty/included maintenance.

If handling / sportiness matters - maybe try Mazda. They're pseudo German/Japanese combo.
Or VW for lower-priced German, so you can afford [aka not be dismayed by] maintenance/repair costs out of warranty with the $ saved on initial purchase. They're also hurting for sales and have some good deals currently. My Golf Sportwagen actually has as much cargo space as the X5 - just as fast, handles better, yet way, way more economical for cost of ownership (averaging 35.5 mpg on 87gas).

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by jharkin » Wed May 18, 2016 10:12 am

surfstar wrote:If handling / sportiness matters - maybe try Mazda. They're pseudo German/Japanese combo.


Or Infinity. Before the "Q" badging the G37 was considered the ultimate sleeper, 80% the fun of a 3 series with 10% the headache at a lower asking price. Although I think that one went down the toilet as well with too much electronics and a pooly executed steer by wire when the made it Q50.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by anoop » Wed May 18, 2016 11:03 am

BruDude wrote:USAA has the best priced full-coverage aftermarket warranty that I've found. I got a 5 year 75k mile warranty on my 2010 M3 for $2200, dealer wanted $6k. It's an exclusionary warranty and they covered the $3400 evaporator unit job at $0 cost with no wait. The car had 23k miles when I bought the warranty, though I'm sure a 40k mile car will be more expensive.


USAA is best for many things, but it's not always accessible. I can't get membership in USAA.

The dealer prices on these are very negotiable and it really depends on what is being sold--they sell both BMW and non BMW plans.

Was the 5 yr / 75 k starting from 2010 / 0 or something else? If stating from 2010 / 0, the price won't change with mileage.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by BruDude » Wed May 18, 2016 12:15 pm

anoop wrote:
BruDude wrote:USAA has the best priced full-coverage aftermarket warranty that I've found. I got a 5 year 75k mile warranty on my 2010 M3 for $2200, dealer wanted $6k. It's an exclusionary warranty and they covered the $3400 evaporator unit job at $0 cost with no wait. The car had 23k miles when I bought the warranty, though I'm sure a 40k mile car will be more expensive.


USAA is best for many things, but it's not always accessible. I can't get membership in USAA.

The dealer prices on these are very negotiable and it really depends on what is being sold--they sell both BMW and non BMW plans.

Was the 5 yr / 75 k starting from 2010 / 0 or something else? If stating from 2010 / 0, the price won't change with mileage.


The 5-year 75k from USAA was from the date of warranty purchase, so the warranty on my 2010 model car extended to 2019. I was luckily able to get USAA membership through my parents which got it through their parents, I know it's not available to everyone. It was a great selling point when I sold the car last month as most E92 M3's no longer have any warranty coverage and repairs are $$$$$

You can also try getting a Fidelity quote from http://fd-warranty.com/ - I found their prices to be very competitive on the Fidelity Platinum, which is one of the best aftermarket warranties you can get. I think the car still has to be under factory warranty to buy the Fidelity Platinum.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by daveydoo » Wed May 18, 2016 9:42 pm

surfstar wrote:https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/x5/2014/road-test-specs1.html
Handling comments Slalom: A surprisingly sloppy handler. The steering is intuitive enough, turns in respectably, but there's quite a bit of body roll after that along with minimal grip from the tires. An overly aggressive stability control just compounds the frustration of getting this big rig through the quick back-and-forth motions of the slalom. Skid pad: While the grip level of the X5 is nothing to brag about, this exercise at least showed that the chassis has some fun tuned in, as the tail would step out playfully during on/off throttle transitions, particularly with the stability control system switched off.


I don't get what the fuss of an X5 is. Its the same as any CUV - a bloated station wagon, except its pricier and a little more fun to drive b/c its a BMW.


As to the OP - I would never own a German luxury vehicle outside of lease/warranty/included maintenance.

If handling / sportiness matters - maybe try Mazda. They're pseudo German/Japanese combo.
Or VW for lower-priced German, so you can afford [aka not be dismayed by] maintenance/repair costs out of warranty with the $ saved on initial purchase. They're also hurting for sales and have some good deals currently. My Golf Sportwagen actually has as much cargo space as the X5 - just as fast, handles better, yet way, way more economical for cost of ownership (averaging 35.5 mpg on 87gas).


You're not "just as fast"; you're at least a full second slower, 0-60, than the OP's diesel. I'm glad you love your Sportwagen and it's a good value. Just so you know, not everyone who buys a BMW (or MB, etc.) is clueless. If your car is transportation only, then economy is all that matters. Why buy a suit anywhere but Sears? It's just clothes, right? But cars aren't S&P500 index funds. Different people prioritize different things. I couldn't care less about prestige or brand or what the neighbors think -- I just really like driving my BMW (and so does the rest of my family), and I'm kinda sorry I waited so long. But I may look into the USAA aftermarket warranty.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by U5512 » Fri May 20, 2016 1:27 pm

daveydoo wrote: Issues with this drivetrain are carbon buildup in that engine engine so best if it's not just driven short distances. .


So you walk to the grocery store 2 miles down the road instead of driving your car? :oops:
"If you can enjoy Saturdays and Sundays without looking at stock prices, give it a try on weekdays." Warren E. Buffett.

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Re: Trade in BMW?

Post by daveydoo » Sat May 21, 2016 2:03 am

U5512 wrote:
daveydoo wrote: Issues with this drivetrain are carbon buildup in that engine engine so best if it's not just driven short distances. .


So you walk to the grocery store 2 miles down the road instead of driving your car? :oops:


Not a bad idea. But not what I was saying. "...just driven short distances..." Meaning be sure to drive it on the freeway every now and then. Most folks do this anyway. I drive short distances all the time. Don't only (exclusively) drive it short distances.

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