Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
User avatar
dm200
Posts: 18345
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:21 pm
Location: Washington DC area

Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by dm200 » Thu May 05, 2016 10:03 pm

Our single family house was built about 1940 and we purchased it in 1978. A year or two after we purchased the house, we needed to replace the roof. We thought (because of the age of the house at that time) there were two layers of shingles - and contracted to remove the shingles (as required if already two layers) and put on new shingles. When doing the work, the contractor discovered that part of the roof only had one layer of shingles. He offered to lower the price if he did not remove the single layer. We agreed. So, we ended up with part of the roof - two layers and part one.

Now, decades later, it seems (no problems yet) we are approaching the need to put on a new roof. One thing we did right back then was pay a small amount more for shingles with a longer life. With 20/20 hindsignt, I think the decision to save a few dollars and have part of the roof with two layers was the wrong one. I cannot even remember (nor do we have a record) just which part(s) of the roof are two vs one layer.

We plan to stay in this house for some time, so I believe we will have to replace the roof sooner or later. One question that I want to be ready for is what to do (or not do) about taking off all existing shingles when getting a new roof. Maybe it would depend on the cost difference. On the other hand, maybe the better choice would be to take off everything - and then have a "clean" (on the record) one layer roof.

Any opinions or experience?

User avatar
cheese_breath
Posts: 7928
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:08 pm

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by cheese_breath » Thu May 05, 2016 10:51 pm

Do a complete tear off and start from scratch. It shouldn't cost that much more to scrape off a few more shingles. If there's any bad wood under the ones you don't take off it could cost you more in the long run. You want to be sure all the wood is good and replace whatever isn't.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

hudson
Posts: 1486
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by hudson » Fri May 06, 2016 5:51 am

cheese_breath wrote:Do a complete tear off and start from scratch. It shouldn't cost that much more to scrape off a few more shingles. If there's any bad wood under the ones you don't take off it could cost you more in the long run. You want to be sure all the wood is good and replace whatever isn't.
I would do the complete tear off unless money was tight. It seems like the local standard in my area is the complete tear off. I put a new roof on a year ago. I asked my roofer about getting a metal roof. He said no worry, the shingles I am putting on your roof are lifetime shingles....for you. (He meant...for my age)

User avatar
jharkin
Posts: 1809
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by jharkin » Fri May 06, 2016 6:12 am

DO the tear off. In addition to allowing them to inspect the roof deck and repair and sheathing damage, they will put all new roofing felt down and will be able to add ice and water shield membrane along the edge and any valleys. It will also be easier to add proper ridge vents (if you dont have one already) if they do the full tear off.

If you live in a cold area you want the ice&water shield for sure, and a lot of roofers are now using synthetic roofing felts that are better performing and longer lasting than traditional tar paper.

User avatar
jharkin
Posts: 1809
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by jharkin » Fri May 06, 2016 6:21 am

hudson wrote: He said no worry, the shingles I am putting on your roof are lifetime shingles....for you. (He meant...for my age)
He probably meant that the shingles have a "lifetime" warranty. I just had my garage re-roofed (due to storm damage). the roofer used GAF shingles which are lifetime warranty. The way the warranty works is:

* To get the lifetime warranty the shingles have to be installed using the entire GAF system (GAF roofing felt, etc)
* The warranty is lifetime for the original owner. It is partially transferable - if the transfer happens in the first 10 years the second owner gets lifetime coverage, after that the second owner only gets a couple years.
* The lifetime warranty covers replacement for manufacturer defects. It doesn't cover replacement from normal wear.

http://www.gaf.com/Warranties_Technical ... rranty.pdf

So in the end it sounds good, but I think very few people ever actually get a new roof on the warranty.

User avatar
4nursebee
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:56 am
Location: US

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by 4nursebee » Fri May 06, 2016 6:53 am

I agree with complete job also.
I'd aim for quality product and work also.
I'd aim to do it as the roof was wearing out and when roofers were hungry, not after a major storm.
4nursebee

pshonore
Posts: 6421
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:21 pm

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by pshonore » Fri May 06, 2016 8:14 am

jharkin wrote:
hudson wrote: He said no worry, the shingles I am putting on your roof are lifetime shingles....for you. (He meant...for my age)
He probably meant that the shingles have a "lifetime" warranty. I just had my garage re-roofed (due to storm damage). the roofer used GAF shingles which are lifetime warranty. The way the warranty works is:

* To get the lifetime warranty the shingles have to be installed using the entire GAF system (GAF roofing felt, etc)
* The warranty is lifetime for the original owner. It is partially transferable - if the transfer happens in the first 10 years the second owner gets lifetime coverage, after that the second owner only gets a couple years.
* The lifetime warranty covers replacement for manufacturer defects. It doesn't cover replacement from normal wear.

http://www.gaf.com/Warranties_Technical ... rranty.pdf

So in the end it sounds good, but I think very few people ever actually get a new roof on the warranty.
And it probably only covers materials and not the labor, correct?

User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 3490
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by lthenderson » Fri May 06, 2016 8:33 am

I agree with the others to do a complete tear off to allow for an inspection of wood and to use better materials under the shingle than present back 40 years ago.

Also, the last couple times I've helped shingle roofs, the warranties weren't valid if installed over another layer of shingles.

wvmtnbkr
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:40 am
Location: WV

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by wvmtnbkr » Fri May 06, 2016 8:38 am

4nursebee wrote:I agree with complete job also.
I'd aim for quality product and work also.
I'd aim to do it as the roof was wearing out and when roofers were hungry, not after a major storm.
I agree with everything said so far, especially the above statement. Also, get as many quotes as you can and really scrutinize the materials that will be used and do your research. As mentioned above, most of the shingle manufacturers require that their "system" be used for the warranty to be effective. Some roofers will provide a quote and then try to "up-sell" you to the better underlayment/ice barriers/etc. that they are required to install, anyway. Also, be leery of any roofing estimator that doesn't get on the roof. Some roofs are fairly simple and can be estimated accurately from the ground by an experienced contractor, but ideally they will get on the roof and look for soft spots or other issues that aren't visible from below. Really scrutinize any warranty the installer provides and how/when they respond to make any repairs. Will they make a separate trip to do the warranty work immediately, or will they wait until they have "other work" in the area to make a repair?

I've had two roofs installed (two separate homes) in the last 3 years. Night and day experience with two different contractors.

Stephen

User avatar
dm200
Posts: 18345
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:21 pm
Location: Washington DC area

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by dm200 » Fri May 06, 2016 9:11 am

Thanks. Complete tearoff was how I was leaning. Since part is only one layer, I will make that known when I get bids/estimates.

hudson
Posts: 1486
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by hudson » Fri May 06, 2016 9:48 am

pshonore wrote:
jharkin wrote:
hudson wrote: He said no worry, the shingles I am putting on your roof are lifetime shingles....for you. (He meant...for my age)
He probably meant that the shingles have a "lifetime" warranty. I just had my garage re-roofed (due to storm damage). the roofer used GAF shingles which are lifetime warranty. The way the warranty works is:

* To get the lifetime warranty the shingles have to be installed using the entire GAF system (GAF roofing felt, etc)
* The warranty is lifetime for the original owner. It is partially transferable - if the transfer happens in the first 10 years the second owner gets lifetime coverage, after that the second owner only gets a couple years.
* The lifetime warranty covers replacement for manufacturer defects. It doesn't cover replacement from normal wear.

http://www.gaf.com/Warranties_Technical ... rranty.pdf

So in the end it sounds good, but I think very few people ever actually get a new roof on the warranty.
And it probably only covers materials and not the labor, correct?

The warranty...on Owens Corning Oakridge.
Limited Lifetime
10 years 100% materials and labor
11 years-40 years 80% reduced 2% every year until year 40 (materials only)
year 41 and beyond...20%

The roofer's a comedian and a salesman...he did my other roof 13 years ago. Now that I think about it, my new roof will likely last about 15 years...unless hail gets it for a third time. (I selected a higher grade of shingles this time...maybe that really helps?) I forget the cost of a metal roof...but I think that it was 3-4 times higher than my asphalt shingle roof.

SamB
Posts: 822
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:17 pm

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by SamB » Fri May 06, 2016 11:14 am

I don't know what roof geometry you have, but I would consider the soffit vents and vent ridge. The last time I had the roof done, which involved complete shingle removal, I had the attic fan removed. It never lasted more than five years, and you could hear it when it ran. Adequate soffit vents along with the vent ridge have always been a better solution for adequate ventilation.

I would also ask about the quality of any bathroom fan vents, and rubber boots that are installed around the plumbing vent(s). Very often roofers will use the cheapest vent they can find at the local HD or similar. This is not a good idea. I had two popped rivets on a cheap exhaust vent which resulted in water leakage down the duct connecting the vent to the bathroom fan. The wall board replacement and painting cost a lot more than spending another ten dollars on a durable roof vent.

Very often you focus on the shingle quality and forget some of these other details associated with replacing the roof. The roofer may save ten dollars on these items if he chooses the cheapest option, but you end up spending plenty in five or ten years. Cracked plumbing vent boots are notorious for water leakage that shows up a long way from where it comes in. Get the highest quality you can find.

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by leonard » Fri May 06, 2016 1:09 pm

Metal roof. Then, never, ever have to mess with the roof again.

Oh, and do gutters with Gutter helmet or similar, then go ahead and get rid of your long ladder.

I regret not having gone with metal when we did it 13 years ago.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 3490
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by lthenderson » Fri May 06, 2016 1:30 pm

leonard wrote:Metal roof. Then, never, ever have to mess with the roof again.
Except if you have a steep roof and can't walk across it unless it is sunny and hot so your shoes will stick to it. Or a scratch that needs painted before rust forms. Or to replace dried out brittle washers on the screws holding down the trim pieces every handful of years to prevent leaks. Or when you are fixing the gutters because snow and ice sluff off on warm days and pull the gutters with them because if the gutters are low enough to prevent this problem, they don't catch rain during heavy thunderstorms. Or if you need to modify part of the roof and now need metal cutting tools, touchup paint, etc.

I had a metal roof for ten years and I was a happy man when I replaced them with good old fashioned shingles.

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by leonard » Fri May 06, 2016 1:36 pm

lthenderson wrote:
leonard wrote:Metal roof. Then, never, ever have to mess with the roof again.
Except if you have a steep roof and can't walk across it unless it is sunny and hot so your shoes will stick to it. Or a scratch that needs painted before rust forms. Or to replace dried out brittle washers on the screws holding down the trim pieces every handful of years to prevent leaks. Or when you are fixing the gutters because snow and ice sluff off on warm days and pull the gutters with them because if the gutters are low enough to prevent this problem, they don't catch rain during heavy thunderstorms. Or if you need to modify part of the roof and now need metal cutting tools, touchup paint, etc.

I had a metal roof for ten years and I was a happy man when I replaced them with good old fashioned shingles.
Get better construction, better materials, and better installation. Blind, SS fasteners. Something other than steel (no rust). Actually fasten the gutters to the facia, 2X4's.

I have never regretted spending extra to get low/zero maintenance.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 3490
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by lthenderson » Fri May 06, 2016 1:44 pm

leonard wrote:
lthenderson wrote:
leonard wrote:Metal roof. Then, never, ever have to mess with the roof again.
Except if you have a steep roof and can't walk across it unless it is sunny and hot so your shoes will stick to it. Or a scratch that needs painted before rust forms. Or to replace dried out brittle washers on the screws holding down the trim pieces every handful of years to prevent leaks. Or when you are fixing the gutters because snow and ice sluff off on warm days and pull the gutters with them because if the gutters are low enough to prevent this problem, they don't catch rain during heavy thunderstorms. Or if you need to modify part of the roof and now need metal cutting tools, touchup paint, etc.

I had a metal roof for ten years and I was a happy man when I replaced them with good old fashioned shingles.
Get better construction and better materials.

I have never regretted spending extra to get low/zero maintenance.
None of those things I mentioned had anything to do with materials or who constructed it. Walking across a smooth surface or position of the gutters deals with physics. A scratch on metal or brittle washers deals with chemistry.

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by leonard » Fri May 06, 2016 1:47 pm

lthenderson wrote:
leonard wrote:
lthenderson wrote:
leonard wrote:Metal roof. Then, never, ever have to mess with the roof again.
Except if you have a steep roof and can't walk across it unless it is sunny and hot so your shoes will stick to it. Or a scratch that needs painted before rust forms. Or to replace dried out brittle washers on the screws holding down the trim pieces every handful of years to prevent leaks. Or when you are fixing the gutters because snow and ice sluff off on warm days and pull the gutters with them because if the gutters are low enough to prevent this problem, they don't catch rain during heavy thunderstorms. Or if you need to modify part of the roof and now need metal cutting tools, touchup paint, etc.

I had a metal roof for ten years and I was a happy man when I replaced them with good old fashioned shingles.
Get better construction and better materials.

I have never regretted spending extra to get low/zero maintenance.
None of those things I mentioned had anything to do with materials or who constructed it. Walking across a smooth surface or position of the gutters deals with physics. A scratch on metal or brittle washers deals with chemistry.
I amended my post to elaborate my point and addressed those. BTW - if I have a metal roof - I have eliminated 99% of the reason I'd be up walking on that roof to begin with.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

User avatar
jharkin
Posts: 1809
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by jharkin » Fri May 06, 2016 5:21 pm

There is no such thing as no maintenance. Modern "no maintenance materials" typically just can't be maintained and require periodic replacement instead. You are just trading more frequent smaller expence for less frequent larger expense.

mouses
Posts: 3724
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:24 am

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by mouses » Fri May 06, 2016 5:46 pm

My town requires shingles that stand high winds. I see by my notes that I got GAF Prestige Ultra. They made it through Sandy with no loss of shingles. The wind resistance depends on what they consider proper installation which includes things like special nailing.

I would rip the old roof off entirely so any damage underneath can be found and fixed.

The shingles I got looked "busy" close up, but look like a plain color on the roof. I went with them despite being concerned about the color because very wind resistant shingles cost a bundle and these were the least expensive, so the final effect was very nice.

As to the roofer, he gave me the names of some people he had installed roofs for and I looked at their roofs and talked to them.

zadie
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:06 am

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by zadie » Sat May 07, 2016 4:53 am

some roofers use nail guns and others hand nail. Is one better than the other? I'd have to assume the hand nailer, would cost more due to more labor involved.

hudson
Posts: 1486
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:15 am

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by hudson » Sat May 07, 2016 5:10 am

zadie wrote:some roofers use nail guns and others hand nail. Is one better than the other? I'd have to assume the hand nailer, would cost more due to more labor involved.
My roofer who has put on my last 2 (25 square) roofs said that hand nailing was his choice; he said something like, "It's the only way to do it." He didn't elaborate. It was a complete tear-off...all new vent and pipe collars...15lb felt...re-flash and caulk chimney...new ridge-vent....clean up and haul off. He had one (very tired) worker carry bundles of shingles around the house and up a ladder. Ten workers were on the roof hammering away...they were gone by lunchtime.

The 1998 roof cost $1800; it lasted 17 years...20 year shingles...hail damage
The 2015 roof cost $4650...limited lifetime warranty...architectural shingles (10 year material and labor warranty)

orca91
Posts: 1223
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:17 pm

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by orca91 » Sat May 07, 2016 6:51 am

lthenderson wrote:
leonard wrote:Metal roof. Then, never, ever have to mess with the roof again.
Except if you have a steep roof and can't walk across it unless it is sunny and hot so your shoes will stick to it. Or a scratch that needs painted before rust forms. Or to replace dried out brittle washers on the screws holding down the trim pieces every handful of years to prevent leaks. Or when you are fixing the gutters because snow and ice sluff off on warm days and pull the gutters with them because if the gutters are low enough to prevent this problem, they don't catch rain during heavy thunderstorms. Or if you need to modify part of the roof and now need metal cutting tools, touchup paint, etc.

I had a metal roof for ten years and I was a happy man when I replaced them with good old fashioned shingles.
Yet, metal roofs are VERY common in mountain/snow towns and usually very steep?? :happy

We get it you didn't like your metal roof. But, your arguments against are not very good.

User avatar
jharkin
Posts: 1809
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 am
Location: Boston suburbs

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by jharkin » Sat May 07, 2016 6:59 am

hudson wrote:
My roofer who has put on my last 2 (25 square) roofs

The 1998 roof cost $1800; it lasted 17 years...20 year shingles...hail damage
The 2015 roof cost $4650...limited lifetime warranty...architectural shingles (10 year material and labor warranty)
WOW!! Where did you find this guy, and can you send him my way?? I just had to replace the small 7SQ roof of my garage and the cheapest quote I got was about $3k. The total roof including the house is around 20-30SQ and around here I dont think I could get it all done for less than 10-12k. Last time it was done in '99 it cost 6500.

mouses
Posts: 3724
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:24 am

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by mouses » Sat May 07, 2016 10:36 am

jharkin wrote:
hudson wrote:
My roofer who has put on my last 2 (25 square) roofs

The 1998 roof cost $1800; it lasted 17 years...20 year shingles...hail damage
The 2015 roof cost $4650...limited lifetime warranty...architectural shingles (10 year material and labor warranty)
WOW!! Where did you find this guy, and can you send him my way?? I just had to replace the small 7SQ roof of my garage and the cheapest quote I got was about $3k. The total roof including the house is around 20-30SQ and around here I dont think I could get it all done for less than 10-12k. Last time it was done in '99 it cost 6500.
Mine cost $7K a few years ago. It is a steeply pitched roof on a two story house plus the lower garage. I will take a wild guess and say 15 squares.

User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 3490
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by lthenderson » Sat May 07, 2016 10:59 am

orca91 wrote:
lthenderson wrote:
leonard wrote:Metal roof. Then, never, ever have to mess with the roof again.
Except if you have a steep roof and can't walk across it unless it is sunny and hot so your shoes will stick to it. Or a scratch that needs painted before rust forms. Or to replace dried out brittle washers on the screws holding down the trim pieces every handful of years to prevent leaks. Or when you are fixing the gutters because snow and ice sluff off on warm days and pull the gutters with them because if the gutters are low enough to prevent this problem, they don't catch rain during heavy thunderstorms. Or if you need to modify part of the roof and now need metal cutting tools, touchup paint, etc.

I had a metal roof for ten years and I was a happy man when I replaced them with good old fashioned shingles.
Yet, metal roofs are VERY common in mountain/snow towns and usually very steep?? :happy

We get it you didn't like your metal roof. But, your arguments against are not very good.
I'm not against them. I'm against someone saying that with a metal roof there is absolutely no maintenance. Thats misleading.

orca91
Posts: 1223
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:17 pm

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by orca91 » Sun May 08, 2016 11:37 am

Okay, but I don't think the said or mean "absolutely no maintenance". That was just your take on it. All roofs should be maintained. But, a good standing seam metal roof will probably outlive all but the youngest of Bolgleheads. I think they meant never mess (never replace) with it again.

User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 3490
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Iowa

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by lthenderson » Mon May 09, 2016 9:42 am

orca91 wrote:Okay, but I don't think the said or mean "absolutely no maintenance". That was just your take on it. All roofs should be maintained. But, a good standing seam metal roof will probably outlive all but the youngest of Bolgleheads. I think they meant never mess (never replace) with it again.
"Never, ever" seems absolute to me.
leonard wrote:Metal roof. Then, never, ever have to mess with the roof again.

Oh, and do gutters with Gutter helmet or similar, then go ahead and get rid of your long ladder.

User avatar
ClevrChico
Posts: 1281
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by ClevrChico » Mon May 09, 2016 6:32 pm

In my area, complete tear off is the only option. Layering isn't even offered. I'd guess it has to do with warranties and cheap labor available.

User avatar
BolderBoy
Posts: 4047
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by BolderBoy » Tue May 10, 2016 2:35 pm

orca91 wrote:Okay, but I don't think the said or mean "absolutely no maintenance". That was just your take on it. All roofs should be maintained. But, a good standing seam metal roof will probably outlive all but the youngest of Bolgleheads. I think they meant never mess (never replace) with it again.
I have a metal roof put on around 1998. Has only required a leak-fix once (2006, around chimney). The fixer was admiring the roof and said it should last 50 years. Live in an intermittent high wind and regularly lots of snow area.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Roof (potential) issues and choices (past/present)

Post by leonard » Wed May 11, 2016 6:58 pm

lthenderson wrote:
orca91 wrote:Okay, but I don't think the said or mean "absolutely no maintenance". That was just your take on it. All roofs should be maintained. But, a good standing seam metal roof will probably outlive all but the youngest of Bolgleheads. I think they meant never mess (never replace) with it again.
"Never, ever" seems absolute to me.
leonard wrote:Metal roof. Then, never, ever have to mess with the roof again.

Oh, and do gutters with Gutter helmet or similar, then go ahead and get rid of your long ladder.
Ok - let's requalify it. Instead of "never, ever" - let's go with much less than shingles - let alone metal roofs with exposed fastener's and metal that will rust. Substantially less.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

Post Reply