Transportation arrangements in Europe

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VictoriaF
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Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by VictoriaF »

When I travel in Europe, I usually stay in a single country and get around by train or travel around with local friends. However, this summer, my plans are a bit more involved and I am looking for suggestions for the following three legs of travel:

1. Paris Charles de Gaulle airport to Metz (France, Lorraine).
2. Metz to Krakow, Poland.
3. Krakow back to Paris, CDG.

Leg-1: A friend from Metz suggested taking a TGV train. There is a direct train from CDG which takes just over one hour. What is the best way to book French trains from the U.S.?

Leg-2: I probably have to fly rather than take a train. The nearest large place is Luxembourg. Then there is Strasbourg. Frankfurt is still farther, but probably is best connected? Which airlines should I consider?

Leg-3: I will fly from Krakow to Paris. Which airlines should I consider?

General: Is it better to book each leg separately? Is there any advantage in booking all three legs with a single airline?


Thank you,
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
ustf
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by ustf »

Tickets for TGV train can be purchased through this website. This is France Railways official site and I have purchased tickets from this website a few years ago without any problems. You can print out or save pdf files of your e-tickets. Just print at home and board the train.

http://www.sncf.com/en/trains/tgv
Bon Voyage !
adamthesmythe
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by adamthesmythe »

> Leg-2: I probably have to fly rather than take a train. The nearest large place is Luxembourg. Then there is Strasbourg. Frankfurt is still farther, but probably is best connected?

I used to go to Strasbourg regularly. I don't remember ever having been in their airport. I do remember driving from Frankfurt so I expect they had better connections.

> Leg-3: I will fly from Krakow to Paris. Which airlines should I consider?

I always go to a travel website and shop price and convenience. The only airlines I would avoid are the low-frills ones who usually don't show up on the travel websites anyway.

By the way- I extensively shopped for a recently booked trip. I tested some of the frequently given advice. My conclusions:

1. The airline websites were typically a bit MORE expensive.

2. Kayak was no better than Orbitz or Expedia alone.

3. Orbitz and Expedia were essentially the same price.

This was only one particular trip.
Jeff Albertson
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by Jeff Albertson »

The man in seat 61 has info on train travel.
Train travel in France:
http://www.seat61.com/France-trains.htm

ITA Matrix has an excellent flight search engine. It has quite a few options for unusual searches, press the help button at the top-right. You can search flights from several possible origins. Click the "Nearby" button" and change the 75 miles to maybe 200 miles. FWIW, it says Paris is closer to Metz (93 miles) than Frankfurt (127 miles).
http://matrix.itasoftware.com/

Skyscanner is another option:
http://www.skyscanner.com/

I don't know if these search engines cover the lower cost airlines, like Ryan Air.
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VictoriaF
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by VictoriaF »

ustf,

Thank you for the link. I will use it shortly.
adamthesmythe wrote:> Leg-2: I probably have to fly rather than take a train. The nearest large place is Luxembourg. Then there is Strasbourg. Frankfurt is still farther, but probably is best connected?

I used to go to Strasbourg regularly. I don't remember ever having been in their airport. I do remember driving from Frankfurt so I expect they had better connections.
Thank you, adamthesmythe,

I did some searching and found that Lot, a Polish Airline, had only 4 discounted tickets left for the date of my travel. And so I purchased LUX (Luxembourg) to KRK (Krakow) for about $380 which seems reasonable for August.

I will use your suggestions for my third leg.

Victoria
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killjoy2012
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by killjoy2012 »

Leg 1 - The drive from CDG to Metz is easy. I wouldn't suggest driving unless you have a need for a car in Metz and beyond, but it's very do-able. Otherwise, just take the train - sncf.com.

Leg 2 & 3 - Train is one option. And while I haven't looked myself, odds are it'll take a while to get where you're going. But it's probably the easiest & lowest stress option. You could fly, or drive too.... just depends on what you want to do.

In late 2014, I drove from Brussels east into Luxembourg and then into Germany, then back through Metz to CDG airport. Honestly, it was all an easy drive, and the car gave me the opportunity to stop at several sights (castles, etc.) along the journey. Not to mention driving on the autobahn. For me, it would come down to whether you're just looking to get in-between the cities as fast & inexpensively as possible... or making a journey out of it. If the former, I'd just fly or train it.
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by VictoriaF »

Jeff Albertson wrote:The man in seat 61 has info on train travel.
Train travel in France:
http://www.seat61.com/France-trains.htm

ITA Matrix has an excellent flight search engine. It has quite a few options for unusual searches, press the help button at the top-right. You can search flights from several possible origins. Click the "Nearby" button" and change the 75 miles to maybe 200 miles. FWIW, it says Paris is closer to Metz (93 miles) than Frankfurt (127 miles).
http://matrix.itasoftware.com/

Skyscanner is another option:
http://www.skyscanner.com/

I don't know if these search engines cover the lower cost airlines, like Ryan Air.
Good links, thank you Jeff Albertson!

I did not realize that Paris was closer than Frankfurt. I suppose, I could have taken TGV back to CDG and fly from there, but at this point I am quite happy with flying out of Luxembourg.

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by VictoriaF »

killjoy2012 wrote:Leg 1 - The drive from CDG to Metz is easy. I wouldn't suggest driving unless you have a need for a car in Metz and beyond, but it's very do-able. Otherwise, just take the train - sncf.com.

Leg 2 & 3 - Train is one option. And while I haven't looked myself, odds are it'll take a while to get where you're going. But it's probably the easiest & lowest stress option. You could fly, or drive too.... just depends on what you want to do.

In late 2014, I drove from Brussels east into Luxembourg and then into Germany, then back through Metz to CDG airport. Honestly, it was all an easy drive, and the car gave me the opportunity to stop at several sights (castles, etc.) along the journey. Not to mention driving on the autobahn. For me, it would come down to whether you're just looking to get in-between the cities as fast & inexpensively as possible... or making a journey out of it. If the former, I'd just fly or train it.
Thank you for the suggestions, killjoy2012,

I am a good (great) driver, but when I travel I prefer using public transportation. I don't like dealing with rental companies, looking at a map while driving, looking for parking, figuring out how to pay for parking, etc. In Metz I will be staying with some friends. In Krakow, I will be attending a meeting, and then will travel around with some friends who will be driving. And so my approach to the legs is focused on the efficiency rather than a journey.

Victoria
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VictoriaF
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by VictoriaF »

Jeff Albertson wrote:The man in seat 61 has info on train travel.
Train travel in France:
http://www.seat61.com/France-trains.htm
Excellent source! It turns out that I can't purchase French rail tickets more than 90 days before travel. I have to postpone buying my TGV leg until I return from the Camino.

Victoria
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by Valuethinker »

VictoriaF wrote:When I travel in Europe, I usually stay in a single country and get around by train or travel around with local friends. However, this summer, my plans are a bit more involved and I am looking for suggestions for the following three legs of travel:

1. Paris Charles de Gaulle airport to Metz (France, Lorraine).
2. Metz to Krakow, Poland.
3. Krakow back to Paris, CDG.

Leg-1: A friend from Metz suggested taking a TGV train. There is a direct train from CDG which takes just over one hour. What is the best way to book French trains from the U.S.?
SNCF website if no other way. Societe National de Chemins de Fer (National Society for the Engines of Fire).
Leg-2: I probably have to fly rather than take a train. The nearest large place is Luxembourg. Then there is Strasbourg. Frankfurt is still farther, but probably is best connected? Which airlines should I consider?
Yes. Luxembourg airport seemed very well connected to me, a function of being the place where the politicians hide all their money ? ;-) I would try Luxembourg to Krakow and then Frankfort.
Leg-3: I will fly from Krakow to Paris. Which airlines should I consider?
Any European airline will do that has the right timings and price. There is (touch wood) no regional airline in Europe that is particularly unsafe (I have different feelings about former Soviet states, etc.).
General: Is it better to book each leg separately? Is there any advantage in booking all three legs with a single airline?
AFAIK simply airmiles.


Thank you,
Victoria[/quote]
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by Valuethinker »

Apocryphal story (1960s)

German air traffic control to British (BA predecessor) pilot landing at Frankfurt

" You have not been to Frankfurt before?"

British pilot

"Yes but in 1944 I didn't stop"
Quark
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by Quark »

Some intra-Europe carriers charge for checking luggage and have very restrictive carry-on policies. Under some circumstances it can be cheaper to buy a more expensive ticket than a less expensive ticket plus baggage fees.
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by VictoriaF »

Valuethinker wrote:Apocryphal story (1960s)

German air traffic control to British (BA predecessor) pilot landing at Frankfurt

" You have not been to Frankfurt before?"

British pilot

"Yes but in 1944 I didn't stop"
Thank you for a laugh.

I tended to assign to the Germans a prudent methodical approach to complex tasks and expect them to be safer than others. The German Wings incident has shaken my cognitive bias.

In contrast, I am highly impressed with the Poles. The Polish conference organizers handle registration better than the Germans and the Swiss before them (the usual issue is with paying with an American credit card). My reservation of a hostel in central Krakow had a minor issue: the reservation web site has accepted my American Express, but then I received an email that the hostel does not accept AMEX. However, the hostel personnel was replying to my email almost instantaneously and a switch to using a VISA card was painless.

Victoria
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by VictoriaF »

Quark wrote:Some intra-Europe carriers charge for checking luggage and have very restrictive carry-on policies. Under some circumstances it can be cheaper to buy a more expensive ticket than a less expensive ticket plus baggage fees.
Thank you for a reminder. I will be traveling light with a MEI "Voyageur" bag, which does not have wheels and can be carried as a duffle bag or as a backpack. Still I have to check carry-on restrictions of various airlines.

Victoria
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by sabhen »

travelling by train is great but journey can take 10 hrs or more. Bring some books etc... there will be a lot to see and a lot of different people sitting next to you. And you can practice your language skills and talk about all sort of things. Public transport is great. I lived in Europe for few years without a car and traveled to various places/countries with public transport. I can't do that in the US.
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by HomoLudens »

A couple of suggestions, which may or may not be useful at this time:
1. From Luxembourg you can always take the Fibco bus to either Frankfurt (both Frankfurt and Frankfurt Hahn airports) or Brussels South airports ( don't be confused Brussels South is ,in fact, Charleroi but there are quite a few low cost carriers operating from this airport). Web site: https://www.flibco.com/en. The connection from the airport is quite easy: You take bus 16 from the airport stop to the JFK stop. It takes 15-20 minutes. The Fibco bus stop is located next to the JFK stop.
2. You can buy Eurorail passes in the US, but some of those rail passes can be bought only in the US before your departure, you won't find them in Europe.
3. For the Euro rail passes and the scheduling tips I suggest that you use Rick Steves: https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/ ... ion/trains
4. If you decide on the train option be advised the Lux Rail was performing an extensive repair program on the tracks. I haven't checked recently, but there was a disruption in the service last year especially for those travelling to Brussels.
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by Watty »

VictoriaF wrote:1. Paris Charles de Gaulle airport to Metz (France, Lorraine).
2. Metz to Krakow, Poland.
3. Krakow back to Paris, CDG.
Do you really need to go to Paris twice or could you catch a return flight to the US from Poland?

You might also check the Rick Steves message boards for suggestions.
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by VictoriaF »

Watty wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:1. Paris Charles de Gaulle airport to Metz (France, Lorraine).
2. Metz to Krakow, Poland.
3. Krakow back to Paris, CDG.
Do you really need to go to Paris twice or could you catch a return flight to the US from Poland?

You might also check the Rick Steves message boards for suggestions.
I already have the flights from the U.S. to Paris, and from Paris back to the U.S. I don't use Rick Steves' because my travel priorities are different from his and his audience's.

Victoria
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by oxothuk »

Valuethinker wrote: SNCF website if no other way. Societe National de Chemins de Fer (National Society for the Engines of Fire).
National Society for the Roads of Iron.
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by HomoLudens »

oxothuk wrote:
Valuethinker wrote: SNCF website if no other way. Societe National de Chemins de Fer (National Society for the Engines of Fire).
National Society for the Roads of Iron.
Well, the phrase "Chemin de Fer" means simply "railway" ( with the caveat that my French is a bit rusty).
"'Thoughts without content are empty, intuitions without concepts are blind." Immanuel Kant
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by adamthesmythe »

HomoLudens wrote:
oxothuk wrote:
Valuethinker wrote: SNCF website if no other way. Societe National de Chemins de Fer (National Society for the Engines of Fire).
National Society for the Roads of Iron.
Well, the phrase "Chemin de Fer" means simply "railway" ( with the caveat that my French is a bit rusty).
Like many French phrases for new things, it is derived from existing language with approval by the Academie Francaise. They are very interested in maintaining the purity of the language. So it really DOES translate as "iron path" or "iron roadway."

They work very hard to prevent the adoption of words from other languages. To the point of inventing words for software and computer.
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by HomoLudens »

adamthesmythe wrote:
Like many French phrases for new things, it is derived from existing language with approval by the Academie Francaise. They are very interested in maintaining the purity of the language. So it really DOES translate as "iron path" or "iron roadway."

They work very hard to prevent the adoption of words from other languages. To the point of inventing words for software and computer.
Thank you. I am aware of that. I also know the literal translation even though I see nothing wrong translating it as "railway". In any case, I will check my old Hachette dictionary when I go home. I am sure that both co-exist peacefully.I do recall the amusing debate about replacing "computer" with "ordinateur", but that's the French way of approaching the language and its evolution. We should respect it.
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by Valuethinker »

oxothuk wrote:
Valuethinker wrote: SNCF website if no other way. Societe National de Chemins de Fer (National Society for the Engines of Fire).
National Society for the Roads of Iron.
Urghh...

I stand corrected. Thank you.
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by Valuethinker »

VictoriaF wrote:
In contrast, I am highly impressed with the Poles. The Polish conference organizers handle registration better than the Germans and the Swiss before them (the usual issue is with paying with an American credit card). My reservation of a hostel in central Krakow had a minor issue: the reservation web site has accepted my American Express, but then I received an email that the hostel does not accept AMEX. However, the hostel personnel was replying to my email almost instantaneously and a switch to using a VISA card was painless.

Victoria
The modern bits of Poland really work. Because they were stuck in communism, they came out and "clean sheeted" it, adopting modern business and technological practices.

Therefore far fewer legacy systems.

And yes, modern Poland is good at customer service.

Old Poland is also an experience when you encounter it, but that's more off the beaten track I think.
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by Valuethinker »

adamthesmythe wrote:
HomoLudens wrote:
oxothuk wrote:
Valuethinker wrote: SNCF website if no other way. Societe National de Chemins de Fer (National Society for the Engines of Fire).
National Society for the Roads of Iron.
Well, the phrase "Chemin de Fer" means simply "railway" ( with the caveat that my French is a bit rusty).
Like many French phrases for new things, it is derived from existing language with approval by the Academie Francaise. They are very interested in maintaining the purity of the language. So it really DOES translate as "iron path" or "iron roadway."

They work very hard to prevent the adoption of words from other languages. To the point of inventing words for software and computer.
I got all excited by "l'option d'achat" and "l'option de vend" because they are so much more logical than Call and Put option.

Alas, i was then told "in Paris, we say Le Put and Le Call" (very gallic shrug) ;-).

They have le parking (Parc de stationement in Quebec); le jogging; le weekend (fin de la semaine in Quebec); and that well known English pasttime "le footing" ;-).
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Re: Transportation arrangements in Europe

Post by neilpilot »

VictoriaF wrote:When I travel in Europe, I usually stay in a single country and get around by train or travel around with local friends. However, this summer, my plans are a bit more involved and I am looking for suggestions for the following three legs of travel:

1. Paris Charles de Gaulle airport to Metz (France, Lorraine).
2. Metz to Krakow, Poland.
3. Krakow back to Paris, CDG.
For July mid-week travel, I see the following flights:

1. Paris Orly to Metz (Air France) @ $134
2. Metz to Krakow (Air France) @ $270
3. Krakow to Paris CDG (Easy Jet) @ $62

I visit Europe annually and often use low cost airlines between cities. Just returned from 3 weeks in Spain and flew Iberia Express (Madrid to Malaga) for 65 euro, Ryanair from Majorca to Madrid for 56 euro, and Vueling from Malaga to Majorca for 63 euro. Each of these flights included an extra fee for a checked bag. No problems, and I haven't had flight problems with several other discount European airlines. My only issue in Europe has been with KLM and Delta.
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