Seeking advice on neighbor issue

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Call_Me_Op
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Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Call_Me_Op » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:37 am

I have one next-door neighbor who feels it is OK to use her side yard (which extends to within 10 feet of my house) to dump any and every type of item - including decaying tree limbs, decaying wood from miscellaneous sources, an old plastic lawn chair, aluminum gutters, a large ice chest, a large mirror, trash bags filled with deteriorated insulation and other unknown matter, rotted gutters, and most recently, a mattress. This has been going on for years (and just piling-up) but was not the case when I first moved in over a decade ago. I have spoken to her once before about the tree limbs and she said "I didn't know what else to do with them." So she knows it bothers me.

The mattress was the latest addition - and is the straw about to break the camel's back. I know she lives paycheck-to-paycheck and has a (able-bodied) son and perhaps a sister living with her. (Actually, all 3 are able-bodied.) Several years ago, with her permission, I paid to have a large tree cut-down (her tree) that was rotting and leaning toward my house. (She also owns a wooden fence that borders my yard and is rotting.) I am looking for ideas on how to address the dumping without starting a feud. Some of my ideas are:

1.) Bite the bullet and pay (myself) to have her trash removed, asking her to refrain from dumping in the future. I would also let her know that she can call the garbage company and they will pick-up (from the curb) one large item per week.

2.) Call her and tell her that the garbage company will pick-up (from the curb) one large item per week, give her the number to call for the pick-up, and hope she asks her son to drag one large item to the curb each week.

3.) Try to get the town involved while attempting to remain anonymous.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Call_Me_Op on Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

joebh
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by joebh » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:52 am

She knows you don't like it, but has continued.

If you are friendly enough with her (sounds unlikely), you can give her suggestion on how to get rid of the trash (as you option #2 suggests).
If you are very friendly with her (sounds less likely), you can offer to help physically, or financially.

But I suspect your best bet is to talk with the town and try to get their intervention, while leaving your name out of it.

If that fails to get the mess cleaned, then you could offer to have it cleaned up at your expense. But, that doesn't mean it will stay clean...

(You might also consider installing a tall enough fence to block the view)

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Call_Me_Op » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:54 am

Joe,

Your thinking is permeated with logic. Note that it is not just about view. I am concerned about what might decide to live in or feed on this debris. I have already had carpenter ant problems (may or may not be related), which I solved by persistent use of Terro traps.
Last edited by Call_Me_Op on Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

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mrc
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by mrc » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:57 am

This has to be a housing code violation. Let the city handle it. All you need to do is report it anonymously, after all it's visible from the street and an eyesore/hazard for everyone in the neighborhood.
A great challenge of life: Knowing enough to think you're doing it right, but not enough to know you're doing it wrong. — Neil deGrasse Tyson

Call_Me_Op
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Call_Me_Op » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:00 am

Thanks mrc. I am leaning strongly in that direction.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

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HueyLD
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by HueyLD » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:22 am

Do you live in an unincorporated rural area?

In an urban area, there should be city or town codes that you can inquire about and have the inspector come out to evaluate the situation.

Sine this has been going on for a while, it may have become the "norm" for her and the neighborhood. I suggest that you start by talking to her in a neighborly manner. If she refuses to take a reasonable corrective action, then call the city/town for assistance.

It is and will be tough no matter how you deal with it. Best of luck to you.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by livesoft » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:25 am

Everywhere I have lived, it is illegal to dump garbage. Is that not the case here? Get your local authorities involved.
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Toons
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Toons » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:33 am

Control what you can.
Let someone else with authority handle it. :happy
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:36 am

Garbage dumps attract vermin. Vermin introduces disease into the living enviornment. Call the health department and department of sanitation.
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by peppers » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:39 am

Call_Me_Op

You are too nice and you are being played.

I read your post and it brought back "fond" memories of episode I went through with my former neighbor. I am willing to bet that the inside of the house looks just as bad as the outside.

Call your local municipality and complain about the debris strewn about and causing a health hazard in the area. Forget about being anonymous, this involves you, your family and your property.

P.S. I could tell you my story, it spans 4 years and involved law enforcement, eviction, breaking and entering, squatters ....
Good luck....you"re gonna need it.
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stan1
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by stan1 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:44 am

Maybe your city is different than mine but it is not common around here for the city to do anything until it is a public health hazard. They definitely aren't going to do anything if it is some clutter in a side yard behind a fence.

Not clear from your description whether this is a few items or a hoarder/junkyard situation. If it is a few large items I'd take her claim that she doesn't know how to get rid of it at face value and offer active help to the point of carrying junk out to the curb or loading into your truck and hauling to dump/recycling/charity. Gather the items up one weekend and bring them to your property and take care of the rest of the disposal. Accept you'll have to do this periodically.

If it is a hoarder/junkyard situation then the city nuisance abatement officer might help -- but again in my city they don't have the will/authority to do much to enforce until it is an extreme situation. Fix-it notices with no penalty aren't very useful.
Last edited by stan1 on Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

arsenalfan
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by arsenalfan » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:48 am

Sounds like you are on talking terms. I'd engage her again, first finding out town's bulk collection process. Then inform her of it, and offer to help her move the items to the curb for pickup (if you're able & want to).

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LiveSimple
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by LiveSimple » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:52 am

As others stated, let the city handle it.

That way if it violates code, you will see remediation.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Cyclesafe » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:10 am

We recently had a neighbor storing artwork (her perspective) / trash (our perspective) in front of her garage doors. It started small, and in the interest of comity, we let things slide, despite the trash being a violation of the subdivision's covenants and a violation of city code. Well, like the frog on the pot on the stove, when the collection gradually got out of hand, we had a precedent and her art work was now considered the norm. Nobody else supposedly noticed it any more.

First off. Never confuse neighbors with your friends. You need to cooperate with each other: comity is a two-way street (so to speak).

We wrote an anonymous letter referring to her trash as "objects". That was the diplomatic part. We then pointed out where she was in violation of covenants and provided links both to the ordinances she was violating and the forms we would fill out to ensure compliance. Within a week the mess was cleaned up and it has remained so for a couple of weeks. But as soon as the stuff starts creeping back, we will immediately file a report.

Don't be a doormat. If you accommodate people and they take the extra inch, come down immediately ad come down hard. Why should you stew over the selfish actions of others?

Oh, and in case you guessed, we're the bad guys in our neighborhood. It's the price that somebody has to pay. We are shunned by some of our neighbors, but feared by all. But the neighborhood is in order. We wouldn't have it any other way.

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midareff
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by midareff » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:27 am

mrc wrote:This has to be a housing code violation. Let the city handle it. All you need to do is report it anonymously, after all it's visible from the street and an eyesore/hazard for everyone in the neighborhood.


+1, let the town be the bad guy.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Jim Profit » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:57 am

midareff wrote:
mrc wrote:This has to be a housing code violation. Let the city handle it. All you need to do is report it anonymously, after all it's visible from the street and an eyesore/hazard for everyone in the neighborhood.


+1, let the town be the bad guy.


If you go this route, ahead of time be sure to objectively evaluate how your house looks and whether you are potentially in violation of any codes yourself no matter how obscure. There tends to be some retaliation in these cases when the town gets involved, make sure there is no low-hanging fruit if someone tries to make a report to the town about your property.

Even if there don't seem to be any active violations, also making your house look like one of the nicest on your street can go a long way in making a good first impression with code enforcement when they initially look at your property.

goingup
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by goingup » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:17 am

I'll give you a different viewpoint. I'd just pay the $$ to get the Get Junk truck to come to the house and remove the trash. I'd clear it with the neighbor first (sounds like she wouldn't care) and tell her that you were having the truck anyways for your own junk.

Why foot the bill you ask? The city is likely not going to intervene unless it's a really big problem. I don't like to live with an annoyance that can be fixed easily. It is hard to rid of stuff, especially mattresses. I struggle myself to break down old stuff and get it into the weekly trash. I have made several trips to the landfill to get rid of old lawn chairs, building materials, etc and it takes physical labor, time, and money.

Bottom line for me is to fix the problem and keep harmonious relations with neighbors.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by JW-Retired » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:31 am

stan1 wrote:
If it is a hoarder/junkyard situation then the city nuisance abatement officer might help -- but again in my city they don't have the will/authority to do much to enforce until it is an extreme situation. Fix-it notices with no penalty aren't very useful.

We live in a pretty expensive Silicon Valley city, but they don't seem to do anything about such things. At least in one case.

We are not at all bothered or involved with it, but several blocks away from us there is house with a huge junk car collection covering the small front yard and driveway. Around 10 cars & trucks there, and another 4 at the curb. Plus a lot of miscellaneous car parts and other stuff in and around the vehicles. Looks like something seen on the "Picker's" TV show. It's been that way for as long as I can remember. 10 years at least.

It is quite unique. Have not seen anything like it anywhere else in town.

Hard to imagine that nobody nearby objects to it, but who knows? Maybe the old guy is beloved in the neighborhood. :D
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Call_Me_Op
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Call_Me_Op » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:18 am

arsenalfan wrote:Sounds like you are on talking terms. I'd engage her again, first finding out town's bulk collection process. Then inform her of it, and offer to help her move the items to the curb for pickup (if you're able & want to).


Unfortunately, I have back problems that would prevent me from doing it myself.

To answer another poster, this is way beyond a few items. If I were to count every item, it would be well into the hundreds.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Call_Me_Op » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:22 am

goingup wrote:I'll give you a different viewpoint. I'd just pay the $$ to get the Get Junk truck to come to the house and remove the trash. I'd clear it with the neighbor first (sounds like she wouldn't care) and tell her that you were having the truck anyways for your own junk.

Why foot the bill you ask? The city is likely not going to intervene unless it's a really big problem. I don't like to live with an annoyance that can be fixed easily. It is hard to rid of stuff, especially mattresses. I struggle myself to break down old stuff and get it into the weekly trash. I have made several trips to the landfill to get rid of old lawn chairs, building materials, etc and it takes physical labor, time, and money.

Bottom line for me is to fix the problem and keep harmonious relations with neighbors.


You have a good point. if I had to chose between spending a thousand bucks and having no hassle, versus having trouble, I would gladly drop the thousand bucks. This is why I asked - to get different perspectives and think this through before I take action. The downsides of paying to have her junk removed is I clearly identify myself as the person who is really bothered by this, and she might just continue her behavior in the future. (Plus, I am fundamentally a cheap Boglehead.)

One option is to call her and let her know how she can do bulk collection, and give her the phone number to call for free pick-up (1 large item per week). That will let her know I am bothered by this (again) and tells her how she can address the problem. Given that I hate conflict (I am no Donald Trump), this is worth consideration. This is how the call might go: "Hi Jane, this is CMO from next door, how are you? I just wanted to let you know that the garbage company will pick-up 1 large item per week as long as it is brought to the curb. You might want to use that for the mattress and some of the other large items you have on the side of the house. I can give you the number if you want."

If she drops the f-bomb (quite possible), I'll know where things stand.

To clarify the relationship, it has been fairly cordial, but we have had perhaps 3 brief conversations over 10+ years - all of which I initiated. All have involved this sort of issue - her fence (I asked her if she plans to replace it), her trees (I cut one down), or debris (I told her I was concerned about all of the brush she threw near the property line and left to decay).
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by JI0124 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:40 am

I guess if you approach her first and she doesn't take action, then you escalate to the authorities, your anonymity would no longer be preserved...in case you care about that.

I wouldn't pay anything, it's not your responsibility and I would think it reasonable to have it resolved without you having to spend money.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by midareff » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:43 am

Jim Profit wrote:
midareff wrote:
mrc wrote:This has to be a housing code violation. Let the city handle it. All you need to do is report it anonymously, after all it's visible from the street and an eyesore/hazard for everyone in the neighborhood.


+1, let the town be the bad guy.


If you go this route, ahead of time be sure to objectively evaluate how your house looks and whether you are potentially in violation of any codes yourself no matter how obscure. There tends to be some retaliation in these cases when the town gets involved, make sure there is no low-hanging fruit if someone tries to make a report to the town about your property.

Even if there don't seem to be any active violations, also making your house look like one of the nicest on your street can go a long way in making a good first impression with code enforcement when they initially look at your property.



Of course you are right Jim, but I doubt the noble civil servants who are looking for significant eyesore violations will be putting Op's residence under any special scrutiny as they drive by to check the reported residence for violation. Local governments have had their budget's stretched considerably since the 2007-2008 downturn and the inspector no doubt has a long list of places to get to next. As a retired municipal employee I truly understand how doing more with less has impacted municipal services. Nevertheless, your advise is sound.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by arsenalfan » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:51 am

Call_Me_Op wrote:
arsenalfan wrote:Sounds like you are on talking terms. I'd engage her again, first finding out town's bulk collection process. Then inform her of it, and offer to help her move the items to the curb for pickup (if you're able & want to).


Unfortunately, I have back problems that would prevent me from doing it myself.

To answer another poster, this is way beyond a few items. If I were to count every item, it would be well into the hundreds.


Oooff...that is a rough one. I like your calling approach. But first I'd find out from the town what recourse (if any) there is. There may be none.

That info would play a part in helping me decide how much $$ to help haul junk away - if no town recourse, then obviously it suggests more $$.

Sounds like you don't have any relationship with neighbor, so no bridge is being burned...
Last edited by arsenalfan on Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

mhalley
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by mhalley » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:51 am

If you spend money to have the stuff removed, you will need to add the $ to your budget because the problem will likely recurr. Whether you have to call the truck yearly, monthly, weekly, is unknown, but you will be calling them again.

goingup
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by goingup » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:17 pm

Call_Me_Op wrote:.. if I had to chose between spending a thousand bucks and having no hassle, versus having trouble, I would gladly drop the thousand bucks. This is why I asked - to get different perspectives and think this through before I take action. The downsides of paying to have her junk removed is I clearly identify myself as the person who is really bothered by this, and she might just continue her behavior in the future. (Plus, I am fundamentally a cheap Boglehead.)

One option is to call her and let her know how she can do bulk collection, and give her the phone number to call for free pick-up (1 large item per week). That will let her know I am bothered by this (again) and tells her how she can address the problem. Given that I hate conflict (I am no Donald Trump), this is worth consideration. This is how the call might go: "Hi Jane, this is CMO from next door, how are you? I just wanted to let you know that the garbage company will pick-up 1 large item per week as long as it is brought to the curb. You might want to use that for the mattress and some of the other large items you have on the side of the house. I can give you the number if you want."

It is a tough situation for sure. It may take a prolonged effort and multiple interactions. :| That bulk collection service is a wonderful option. I wonder if she would mind if you made a weekly call? Offer your help to solve the situation. From what you said she doesn't sound like the crazy anti-social hoarder type. I truly would try to work with her and help. Once you call in the city you will change the tenor of all future discourse.

FWIW, I've had a junk truck come out to the house to remove carpet, padding, drywall, etc and it was only $200 or so.

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Jim Profit
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Jim Profit » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:57 pm

Of course you are right Jim, but I doubt the noble civil servants who are looking for significant eyesore violations will be putting Op's residence under any special scrutiny as they drive by to check the reported residence for violation. Local governments have had their budget's stretched considerably since the 2007-2008 downturn and the inspector no doubt has a long list of places to get to next. As a retired municipal employee I truly understand how doing more with less has impacted municipal services. Nevertheless, your advise is sound.


I was thinking more when the neighbor calls code enforcement on the OP as retaliation for originally reporting her.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Mudpuppy » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:03 pm

Call_Me_Op wrote:This has been going on for years (and just piling-up) but was not the case when I first moved in over a decade ago. I have spoken to her once before about the tree limbs and she said "I didn't know what else to do with them." So she knows it bothers me.

I have not read all of the replies, but I would caution against assuming she's doing this with the knowledge that it bothers you. You've spoken to her once about this in a decade, she might not even recall the conversation.

I would suspect you're dealing with the "overwhelmed" kind of hoarder. She may have been quite literal in her "I didn't know what else to do with them" expression. The overwhelmed hoarder doesn't have the tools that most people have to get rid of their junk, so it accumulates because they have no idea what they're supposed to do with the items (or they assume it will cost a ton of money to remove the items, and they do not have much money to spare). This has absolutely nothing to do with how many able-bodied people live in the house, as it's a mental disorder, not a physical one.

Just as an example of how someone with this condition does not think normally, I have a family member with this issue. She used to drop all of her trash on the floor, rather than walk to the trash can in the kitchen, and said it was because of her arthritis. When we tried putting small trash cans next to her common sitting areas, she wouldn't empty them out when filled or alert anyone else that the cans were filled, but would rather drop trash around them once they filled. She didn't do this out of spite. She had no mental concept that one should empty the trash cans regularly or ask someone else to empty the trash cans if her arthritis was too bad to empty them herself.

So take the expression "I didn't know what else to do with them" literally and offer help first. If she does not accept your help, she might be to the point of needing professional services. You might start with the adult or elder services agency before going to city code compliance, as adult/elder services agencies often have programs to intervene with people who are the "overwhelmed" kind of hoarder.

Note that involving any agency will likely garner ill-will, no matter how well-intentioned you are in the process. Even if you attempt to remain anonymous, they will point fingers at all neighbors who mentioned the issue, or even neighbors who never mentioned the issue. My previous neighbors blamed me for getting repeatedly ticketed by code compliance for their RV, even though I never complained to them about their RV or called code. Probably no neighbor called code. Code compliance was making random sweeps of neighborhoods at the time and our neighborhood is not approved for RV parking.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by mrc » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:45 pm

Especially if you're dealing with a hoarder, you need "professional" help — this isn't something you'll be able to reason though with her. Nor should you have to open your checkbook to solve this. As others noted, it will recur. Report the violation and keep your fingers crossed that you'll see some action. If she confronts you, look surprised and ask if she would like help finding someone to do the work.
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by likegarden » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:03 pm

You say hundreds of items. Mice and other critters like those piles to make their homes in, so you might have an infestation. I have a neighbor to the back who dumps all his lawn clippings, tree leaves and larger debris several yards away from my back fence and gardens, mice love it in there and then raid my plantings.
By the way, there is a NOLO book 'Neighbor Law', is interesting to read.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Wildebeest » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:25 pm

If in anyway financially feasible, my advice would be to pay for the garbage to be cleaned up and sell your house.
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Call_Me_Op » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:44 pm

I think all options have been suggested, except to do nothing. At least this confirms my suspicion that this is a tough problem.
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dm200
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by dm200 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:47 pm

mrc wrote:This has to be a housing code violation. Let the city handle it. All you need to do is report it anonymously, after all it's visible from the street and an eyesore/hazard for everyone in the neighborhood.


I agree 100%. From what you describe, it might beven be a safety and/or health hazard.

Although not 100% perfect, my jurisdiction does deal with such situations.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by island » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:16 pm

I feel your pain. I have a neighbor on one side and like you only about 10' separates our homes and he too uses his side yard to store stuff or as a temporary dumping ground. Fortunately we're separated by a fence, but he's piled up things that were higher than the fence and that bugs me. Obviously the stuff is put there so they don't have to see it, but we do.

I solved the problem by just talking to him. I said I realize you put it there so it's out of the way and don't have to see it, but we do. It extends above the fence on our side and we can see even more from upstairs. Would you want a view of that from your family room or patio? I Invited him over to see for himself, but he declined. He didn't realize we could see it, which is surprising to me, but hey, the guy is clueless and self absorbed I guess.

So he moved the crap and I think I had to talk to him another time when the huge mirror removed during a bathroom remodel was out there for a few more months, but he got rid of or moved that too after I spoke to him.

No bad feelings, no war, but I would have escalated it with our homeowners assoc if needed to.

So I'd suggest you do the same. Have a conversation. Show her what it looks like from your home and property. Maybe your neighbor is as clueless as mine.

I don't think it's a good idea to go above your neighbor before going to her directly and doubt anonymous is possible if you're the only property that sees the mess.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by westie » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:14 pm

As her trash is on her property she may refuse to have it removed even if you're willing to pay. I'd talk to her, if she tells you to buzz off, you'll need to get enforcement involved, tell her that. Best of luck.

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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by pennstater2005 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:24 pm

That's rough thinking about paying to remove someone else's junk. I don't think I could do it. Your neighbor has to know this bothers you and if she truly cared I think she would make contact with you on how to fix the situation. But it doesn't sound like she has ever done that. I would be leaning toward at least contacting the proper authorities and get their take on it.

A fence or some tightly planted trees/shrubs might be the next best option. If there is possible hazardous material that you are concerned about I would imagine someone would come out from your municipality to investigate.

I feel lucky to have great neighbors who all take very good care of their lawns and homes. I knew it was a crapshoot when we were looking to buy a home.
“Life is short, Break the Rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile" - Unknown

Mudpuppy
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Mudpuppy » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:29 pm

pennstater2005 wrote:Your neighbor has to know this bothers you and if she truly cared I think she would make contact with you on how to fix the situation.

Why would she have to know this bothers the OP? The OP has only talked to her once in a decade about this, and twice more about two other issues. She may be completely oblivious to how this is not normal and how it might bother others, particularly if she has hoarding syndrome. You should have seen the yard of my aforementioned hoarding relative, and she was absolutely clueless about how normal people don't live that way.

Alex Frakt
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Re: Seeking advice on neighbor issue

Post by Alex Frakt » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:34 pm

Locked. This isn't exactly a Personal Consumer issue and several of the replies are verging on violating our requirement of civility in discussions. Perhaps PM the OP if you have suggestions that have not already been covered above?

Locked